There are plenty of other scriptures where a man refers to an angel as Jehovah or the angel himself refers to itself as Jehovah (or LORD) because angels never saw it important for humans to know their name, nor should they have because ppl at the time had a very high tendency to engage in idolatry. Besides its true. They're names were not important. They were messengers delivering messages from Jehovah and what Jehovah (or LORD) uttered is all that mattered
Paul says he sees an altar for a God they do not know and left out. So he shows them such a God, but not with intent of saaying their sacrifices were to HIM and should continue as such. So too jesus says that he IS God of Abram not WAS God, thus alive in memory to bring back, but not intent of saying Abram was already brought back alive or in heaven. So too, LET US includes angels? Then why not the first angel?
Genesis 1:26 says Jehovah God and Jesus made man together."And God went on to say;"Let us make man in our image." verse 27, "And God proceeded to create the man in his image, in God's image he created him, male and female he created them." So here shows that God is really directing the creation process, and Jesus is working with him."
@truthhitmanisback- Genesis 11:7says,"Let us go down and there confuse their language."Proverbs 8:22,"Jehovah produced me as the beginning of his way," Colossians 1:15,"by means of him all (other) things were created in the heavens and upon the earth." (This includes Jesus help make angels-they are invisible).John 1:3,"All things came into existaence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence." Proverbs 8:30,"then I came to be beside him as a master worker.."John 1:10
do you wanna talk chronology? How about figures for the Bible for 3000 years. Recognize any of them? 1307 & 1556 & 1656 & 2242 & 2256 & & 2262 & 2264 There is a reason such figures exist, and while you or religions argue which one is true by shoving all the others into the category SATANS LIE, you totally miss out on the proof against evolution, and so cannot see the only year Adam was created is 4025bc.
Your attacking JWs for being dumb, of which they are, was not the Jews God's people and yet so stupid? But look around and tell me who is there that is not stupid among men. Learn anything grand and wise and all-incompassing profund in truth and everybody thinks without their reading any book, any words, no school, no conversing and exchanging knowledge that they just seem to know more than anyone who reads or learns or educates himself. Granted education doesnt mean all you read is truth
When Moses wrote about Eve, he did not personally meet Jesus on earth. So you have to go forward into Bible that was not yet written to find out that Jesus taught that God created all things thru him. Now you must ask was Jesus wrong to teach this. The answer is, this man was ressurrected to heaven. Did God make a mistake to do this for a man who taught he was the firstborn.
So your concept of read Bible not magazines doesnt explain why churches and book stores write about the Bible and yet you do not state we should avoid all those books and all those magazines. You are selecting only WT books and mags to say don't read them. While you say nothing about 100s of other authors writing ABOUT our Bible, the Bible.
@21crosscheck21 ..Brian ..I absolutely loved this video..you hit the nail on the head...outstanding..If their version is correct which we know is not, but if it were than they have Jesus Christ as Jehovah at Gen 2:21..I know about Michael but they really are ashamed of that teaching and you hardly hear them bring Michael up too much unless it is a young just converted very zealous convert..Most J.W.'s can't wait for the WTBTS to change the Michael is Jesus doctrine..that would be the fifth time!
@jbjoeychic -Genesis 1:26 says Jehovah God and Jesus made man together."And God went on to say;"Let us make man in our image." verse 27, "And God proceeded to create the man in his image, in God's image he created him, male and female he created them." So here shows that God is really directing the creation process, and Jesus is working with him."
@JehovahsElijah -Hey, when you found an original HUNDRED DOLLAR BILL, and the government varified it as legal and accurate TENDER, why would you then take all the FAKES? When you look at all the other ones, and compare it to the real one, and they are proven "fake". IT'S SIMPLE. We have proof of our teachings. The bible backs it all up- WE ARE REALLY TEACHING THE BIBLE ACCURATELY WHETHER YOU REALIZE IT OR NOT. Nothing else will do when you see all the UNTRUTH IN THEIR LITERATURE as I do.
Jesus himself said all things the Father did was all thru him. So it is Jesus who taught that things written down as done by Jehovah were all as things that were done by using Jesus.
The answer to your question is that this book you seem to think is gospel is only an aid in study. Please note that everything written has scriptures to back up this book or aid. Also, you can study from any Bible.
God made Jesus out of nothing, he made Eve out of Adam (who was made through Jesus). So it still stands, Jesus was the only one directly created by God.
It can even be said that Jesus was made out of God's substance. Everything else was made through Jesus. So yes, Jesus is special.
@archeng123 By being simple, you don't ask for grand things. But, the question becomes "What are you seeking"? James said, "Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts." (Ja 4:3) He does make things clear, however, He wants us to focus on life through Christ. Salvation is our ultimate goal, which comes through Jesus Christ only. "This is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ". (1 Jn 3:23)
Are you saying Jesus is an angel? Have you read Heb 1? That option is not available. So I would ask if Jesus is not an angel, what is he in reference to his nature? If you insist he is an angel on what scriptural basis do you make that determination? In Jude, Michael would not rebuke the devil but Jesus, at the time of his temptation rebuked him to his face. So if Jesus is an angel he can't be Michael. What angel do you maintain him to be. Have any biblical reference I may read? Thank you kindly
it's the speaker who is saying jesus is michael the arch angel and I was correcting him, implying that jesus cannot be an arc angel. what are you smokin????
The author of this video hardly believes Jesus is Michael the archangel. No need to "correct" him. His videos are for the purpose to get JW's to think outside the confines of Watchtower theology. He attempts to use simple logical thought to expose glaring inconsistencies within WT theology. The end is to demonstrate that the WT doesn't actually speak for God the way JW's thinks it does. Rather he points exclusively to the bible as any Christian would. Glad you agree Jesus is not Michael.
God created all things through Jesus. That's a given. Jesus always gives credit to God. Jesus would not say "I did this myself". No matter who physically did it, all credit goes to GOD. You really don't see jesus or the good angels taking credit for anything. It is god's doing, or god's will. Wheather it was jesus or a clown named bozo is not the important part.
You are missing the point. If you read the text word for word it is Jehovah God who was doing the creative work in forming Eve from Adam. You say it is unimportant because you know if you take it at face value it contradicts WT doctrine. Your comment demonstrates why discussing scripture with JW's is generally fruitless. You only accept WT interpretation even when the simple text, contrary to WT dogma, is staring directly in your face. To cavalierly dismiss this simple exercise is folly. Think!
I was not looking for an apology but I humbly accept it. It takes a man to do such a thing. So you have my appreciation as well as my respect. May the Lord bless you as you seek to glorify Him in all that you do.
TheSacredSecret is a phony. Pretends to be 'christian, yet I received this PM "if you said that to my face i'd put my foot so far up your ass you'd never have the guts to talk shit about me again. LOL!
Here is how I would explain it. Jesus was used as an instrument of creation. In other words, everything came to being through Jesus. Like Jesus said, "I do nothing of my own initiative" (John 8:28)
Even we pray 'through' Jesus. He acts as a mediator or link to the father (Romans 1:8). This is a reoccurring theme throughout the Bible.
Thus, it was still Jehovah who created Eve, and everything else. Jesus was an instrument of creation, not the source of creation.
The other thing is that Jesus "cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he beholds the Father doing. For whatever things that one does, these things the Son also does in like manner." (John 5:19) So, when Jesus was used to create things he did it with Jehovah, hence Jesus was the only thing Jehovah God created without any help. So, it might look like Jehovah creates Eve at Gen 2:21, but in fact it's Jesus. And BTW, Eve was not created, but instead built from Adams rib, made.
21crosscheck21 you just got busted. Jehovah's angel cannot be Jehovah himself because to say Jehovah is an angel is blasphemy and takes all his glory away. Shame on you. Jehovah God only spoke 3 times, that we can be sure of, in which human beings could hear him. This was at Jesus' baptism, the transfiguration, and when Jesus was dying on the torture stake. Any other time ,besides Jesus' and John's birth, in the Bible it was the angel of Jehovah, Michael the archangel, the Word Jesus Christ.
Re: "God only spoke 3 times, that we can be sure of,"
Ex 19:9 The LORD said to Moses, "I am going to come to you in a dense cloud, so that the people will hear me speaking with you and will always put their trust in you."
No NO No. Stop adding to Gods Word! The Bible N.E.V.E.R.R.R.R.R.R says that The Michael is Jesus. Show me in the Bible where Jesus says that I am really "Michael The Archangel". You cannot do it.
Also,if the father is too holy to be beheld or to be likened to man,why is the son,as a coequal in holiness able to be beheld and to be likened to man?
And I appreciate it when you highlight our literature.The Catholic and Protestant religions are responsible for most of the world being familiar with the Bible and Jesus. It's to bad they forgot to bring the truth of the Scriptures with them.
Yes Jesus created Adam, Eve, the angel who became Satan and everything else.
Moses saw the face of God, even though the context shows clearly it was the "angel of Jehovah" he was speaking to. He, as the Logos, was probably Jesus, speaking for Jehovah.
21cc21 This video shows your lack of Holy Spirit. In Genesis Chapter 32 I believe it was Jacob wrestled with an angel and the angel told him that he contended with God. So many times in the bible when angels did things it is said that God did it. This is nothing new.
Read your bible brother, and humbly submit to what it says. The Idea that Angels created is a myth that originates with apostate Jews.
Isaiah 44:24 Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, And He who formed you from the womb: "I am the LORD, who makes all things, Who stretches out the heavens ALL ALONE, Who spreads abroad the earth BY MYSELF;
So are u denying my post? Why no comment on Gen 32. Do you agree that many times angels where refered to as Jehovah? If an angel uses Jehovah's power to create then it is actual Jehovah who is creating.
This just seems like a strange comment from you because you say Jesus is not angel. Yet here you say he is "ANGEL OF THE LORD" and that he was an angel who received worship. So I must be seeing this wrong. RIGHT?
In a time of crisis the angel of the LORD visited Gideon to give encouragement (Judges 6:1124). It climaxes with worship in verse 2021, "The angel of God said to him, 'Take the meat and the unleavened bread and lay them on this rock, and pour out the broth.' And he did so.
Then the angel of the Lord put out the end of the staff that was in his hand and touched the meat and the unleavened bread; and fire sprang up from the rock and consumed the meat and the unleavened bread. Then the angel of the LORD vanished from his sight."
Note carefully what happens next. "When Gideon saw that he was the angel of the LORD, he said, 'Alas, O LORD God! For now I have seen the angel of the LORD face to face.' The LORD said to him, 'Peace to you, do not fear; you shall not die.' Then Gideon built an altar there to the LORD and named it The LORD is Peace. To this day it is still in Ophrah of the Abiezrites" (vv. 2224). You do not build altars to angels, and you do not worship angels. That would break the first commandment.
How is it that you deduct that the angel was the one that the altar was built for. Also the fact that he did not die by seeing the angel is proof that he was not God. Gideon new seeing Jehovah would kill him.
Still don't see it 21cc21. I will tell you why. I constantly says "Jehovah's angel". Now if this was Jehovah himself why would it always keep reassuring you that it was an angel? KJV says "The angel of the [true] God". How can he be an angel of God and be God at the same time?
Don't get me wrong either 21cc21 I am reading everything you are pointing out and trying to see it. So I am not just dismissing you comment I am looking but not seeing the same thing as you.
SO now ,not only are you willing to say Jesus was playing pretend that he was inferior to Jehovah,but now he's PRETENDING that he is Jehovah's angel..ANGEL MEANS ANGEL.SON MEANS SON.Study up on the agency bearing the name of the principe be4 you make such uninformed claims misleading others!
And you might want to read hebrew history.Does the bible say Jehovah emptied himself or that christ did?Does th ebible say Jehovah sent himself or his son.Time to reassess the your preconceptions be4 diving into the word of truth.
I'm tired of dealing with apostates, opposers, and those who very soon are going to lose their lives at Armageddon. It's like pulling teeth to try to help those of your sort. You neither know nor want to know the real Jesus nor his heavenly Father who created him!!
You don't want the truth--your choice.
But stop making others as much candidates for Gehenna as YOU
"I'm tired of dealing with apostates, opposers,..."
JW, then why do you continue to come to these boards and leave comments that do not build up, but rather, tear down? Perhaps you should heed God's word when it says:
"Be wise in the way you act toward outsiders; make the most of every opportunity. 6Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone."--Col.4:5-6
Peace be with you JWinCT. Are the words I speak not in Truth? Please by all means point out which ones and how. Better yet, feel free to answer the questions. I bless you in the Name and by the Precious Blood of Jesus Christ Our Savior.
"But if a prophet presumes to speak in my name an oracle that I have not commanded him to speak, or speaks in the name of other gods, he shall die.' "If you say to yourselves, 'How can we recognize an oracle which the LORD has spoken?', know that, even though a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if his oracle is not fulfilled or verified, it is an oracle which the LORD did not speak. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously, and you shall have no fear of him. Duet. 18:20-22
umm..if you're referring to the dates they set,they never claimed Jehovah told them anything and yes JW's talk about recognize revere and accept Christ as the way,the truth and the life,the way to reach Jehovah and savior :)I recommend reading "the greatest man who ever lived."
Wait a sec, So you acknowledge the existence of the questions I keep asking, but would rather that we collectively ignore them and focus instead on questions that you have asked after the fact??!
Oh I had oposted that before your questions even.I was talking baout answering this video,which is what I thought you were talking about.Maybe you could answer MY questions.
Yes they did. And today Jehovah's Witnesses Condemn those in the organization who do what Russel and the other presidents back then did, meaning make false predictions about when the end will come.
You have to realize, we haven't been around very long compared to other churches. Back in Russel's day there wasn't much in our practices to distinguish us from the Catholics. We believe that such things are un-biblical. But back then, we didn't know better.
I don't remember ever hearing them say the end was coming in 2034. Tomorrow I'll dig out the 2003 Bound Volume and read that Issue. I wish you had told me what page it was on, would make it a lot easier to find. When I get back from the meeting in the morning, I'll come back and tell you what I found out.
The Fact exists that IF the first four founding presidents of the JW organization WERE False Prophets then the validity of all that they said and taught (including the NWT "bible") comes into question. It's just that simple.
What the bible teaches isn't questionable..that is what I'm studying right now.The trinity is a WILD philosophy.Who was it in the OT who said there is no God but ME?(as opposed to US?)Did the OT prophets think he was talking about his triune nature?
You wanted to know where Jehovah was credited for doing something alone that someone else did.I provided texts.You chose to ignore them.Shame on you!lol
Isaiah 44:24 NKJV Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, And He who formed you from the womb: "I am the LORD, who makes all things, Who stretches out the heavens ALL ALONE, Who spreads abroad the earth BY MYSELF;
Isaiah 45:12 NKJV I have made the earth, And created man on it. I MY HANDS stretched out the heavens, And all their host I have commanded.
Floodtube and Brian, You are both hitting it right on the head. I too have experienced this kind of reasoning from JWs and seen it in their literature. Unless you are well versed in the Bible you will not know what the Bible really says in context to refute their questions.
Did you know the very first words from the serpent to Eve was a question?
Asking a question of God's word when the answer is already clear?
The Watchtower pepper their litrature with questions to make the reader doubt what the bible really says.
They ask more questions and then some more. The poor JW is put in a state of confusion so they will happily and readily take the false answer the WT give them.
The WT puffing themselves up as watcher over their flock. That's Christ's role!!
lol..pretty funny..always tellin JW"s to ask themselves questions...so should you!If you have a doctrine that is described as a mystery,esp. if it is pertaining to Jah's numerical value,you BETTER ask questions.
What the snake implied to Eve was that she wouldn't REALLY die,which is EXACTLY what Christendom teaches today..that no one REALLY dies..everyone never perishes.Amazing!Jesus didn't even REALLY die for three days did he?
Col 1:15-20 states that Christ is the image of the invisible God, and that by Christ EVERYTHING in heaven, on earth, things seen and unseen ALL THINGS have been created by him. It continues to say that Christ is before ALL THINGS and that Jehovah was pleased to have ALL his fulness dwell in Christ. The description continues to say that the reason for all these things and more is that in ALL THINGS Christ might have the supremacy.
There's the Context. Pre-eminence or first creation?
If you look at these texts in light of 1 cor 15:27,28 and Prov 8,what would be a reasonable conclusion??Are we to assume that Jehovah has to say that Jesus is supreme above all others EXCEPT FOR THE ONE WHO MADE HIM THAT WAY every single time?Even 1 cor says "IT GOES WITHOUT SAYING" lol..so ya know what,I'll reiiterate it for ya..IT GOES WITHOUT SAYING IT IS WITH THE EXCEPTION OF HIS GOD AND FATHER WHO gave him all things :)
Great Video! BTW Excellent point. On a somewhat seperate note it makes me wonder if there are perhaps some possible implications involving Mary and JW "theology" as well.
God can't use agents to accomplish things by means of his spirit?interesting.If you had a beloved firstborn child you wouldn't use him and give to him ?You would ignore his presence as he desired to help you?And cuoldn't you take credit for what he did if your spirit was what REALLY did it all?
Felicity that is simply a red herring.. the question is not can that happen, rather it is DID it happen.
You continue to use Moses as an example but never provide any scripture. I would love to see the scripture that says, "and Jehovah went to Pharaoh and let my people go, then Jehovah threw the staff on the ground etc....."
Some passages in the Bible say that God performed the miracles in Egypt and other say that Moses did. Does this mean that Moses is God?
In Exodus 7:1 God says he turned Moses into a "god" and Aaron into a "prophet," which reflects how God was using Moses to indirectly perform miraculous signs and plagues in Egypt.
Regardless of how the signs and plagues of Exodus are discussed in the Bible, God (the Father) takes the credit.
It's like how God sent his angel in Exodus to be his "presence."
Exodus 7:17:God [now] says, 'Through this you will know that I am God.' I will strike the water of the Nile with the staff in my hand, and [the water] will turn into blood.
Exodus 7:19,20:[Aaron] held the staff up, and then struck the Nile's water in the presence of Pharaoh and his officials. The Nile's water was transformed into blood.
God doesn't literally have hands Cross..Jesus is called the Arm of the Lord is that literal?His "hand" is his spirit(yessum activated power) and Jesus personifies something he uses as a tool,"a master craftsman" if you will..?In what instance has Jesus ever accomplished anything without HIS GOD'S holy spirit upon him??De nile ain't just a reever een Egypt.
I wish you would answer who really parted the waters and led the israelites and who really used turned the Nile into blood?Was it Moses,Jehovah or Aaron?Acc to this video it would seem if Jehovah did this then Aaron and Moses could've had no part in any of it.
What have I said in my other post.... try to follow here. God used Moses.... but God did NOT say that he struck the Nile with his staff as you tried to assert. Clearly that was a metaphor that you attempted to twist in a way to support your argument.
God however DID say that HE opened, took, closed and fashioned EVE.
By means of his holy spirit,which he gives Jesus without measure.And as we've seen,when he uses that spirit through someone else,an agent if you will,he can rightfully take credit :)
Felicity, seriously... in this passage who does the BIBLE say opened Adam, removed the rib and fashioned Eve? Unlike ALL your other passages no one else is Mentioned.
Does God use others to do things, of course. If you think that is the point of contention here you are mistaken. The question is does Gen 2 indicate that he did.... the answer is NO.
Jehovahs Witnesses are systematically taught to site the word firstborn in Colossians 1:15 and suggest it makes Christ a created thing/first created. This is a heresy that has its roots in False Prophets.
This is an abomination (see Rev. 22:18-19) since the Word of God must be added to in order to even support such a theological presumption. The Greek for "firstborn" is proto with tikto. This is what we find in Col. 1:15. The Greek however for "first created" is proto with ktizo. The Truth is clear. Furthermore, the very fact that even the NWT translates it as firstborn demonstrates that there is definitely a known distinction.
If thats not enough, the most rock solid evidence for what firstborn means as pertaining to Jesus is found in the very next verse! Ill ask you: Why is Christ called the firstborn of all creation? -The answer? Verse 16: For in Him were created all things in heaven and on earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things were created through Him and for Him.
Notice the For in Him at the beginning of the verse. In the NWT bible it even starts verse 16 with the word because. Even stronger! Why is verse 16 ignored?! Is verse 16 not the explanation of verse 15?! The verse clearly shows that firstborn in verse 15 expresses Christs Preeminence in relation to ALL Creation.
Yet, all this must be overlooked in order to support a heretical teaching that Christ exists as a created thing. Still dont believe me? Again: all things were created through Him and FOR Him. Either we believe that Jesus was a selfish servant since He created everything for Himself, or we believe that Jesus is God! Furthermore, the word other (all [other] things) has blatantly been added to the verse 16 in an attempt to diminish its content.
The WatchTower openly acknowledges this fact through the use of brackets but tells you it has been done for clarification! If thats the case then the words use would undoubtedly clarify and strengthen the fact that Jesus created ALL things as Gods Word declares! Obviously, this is not the case. Ill ask you: Did the God create ALL things? Did Jesus create ALL things? These 2 little questions create one massive problem for JW theology.
The only way one (a JW) would be able to say that Jesus is still a thing and yet created ALL things is through the use of intellectual dishonesty. By such reasoning if Jesus is a creation but at the same time created ALL then He would had to have created Himself!? Furthermore, if Jesus created ALL things and yet somehow is not God, then this very distortion undermines and corrupts the very meaning of ALL things when it is applied to God.
Does the Watch tower really say that God created Jesus who was really Michael the Archangel?
questioneverything2 3 months ago
Apostate
No H8
Freedom of Speech
Bloody Bloody
osmarcuriel45 3 months ago
Eve was a facsimile according to Adam.
hartistry1957 4 months ago
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Jehovah Witnesses are doomed. I feel bad for them because they really want to serve God, but they take a wrong direction.
CarlaLOVeHaitiCreole 5 months ago
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CarlaLOVeHaitiCreole 5 months ago
There are plenty of other scriptures where a man refers to an angel as Jehovah or the angel himself refers to itself as Jehovah (or LORD) because angels never saw it important for humans to know their name, nor should they have because ppl at the time had a very high tendency to engage in idolatry. Besides its true. They're names were not important. They were messengers delivering messages from Jehovah and what Jehovah (or LORD) uttered is all that mattered
dondulce9205 7 months ago
seems to me that the angels came down and were busy creating MAN (many men /many sons) on their own without God, until the Flood.
JehovahsElijah 9 months ago
Paul says he sees an altar for a God they do not know and left out. So he shows them such a God, but not with intent of saaying their sacrifices were to HIM and should continue as such. So too jesus says that he IS God of Abram not WAS God, thus alive in memory to bring back, but not intent of saying Abram was already brought back alive or in heaven. So too, LET US includes angels? Then why not the first angel?
JehovahsElijah 9 months ago
Genesis 1:26 says Jehovah God and Jesus made man together."And God went on to say;"Let us make man in our image." verse 27, "And God proceeded to create the man in his image, in God's image he created him, male and female he created them." So here shows that God is really directing the creation process, and Jesus is working with him."
eternityandforever 9 months ago
@eternityandforever When God said "let us " he was talking to his angels. God alone has made all things. He will not give his glory to another.
truthhitmanisback 9 months ago
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@truthhitmanisback- Genesis 11:7says,"Let us go down and there confuse their language."Proverbs 8:22,"Jehovah produced me as the beginning of his way," Colossians 1:15,"by means of him all (other) things were created in the heavens and upon the earth." (This includes Jesus help make angels-they are invisible).John 1:3,"All things came into existaence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence." Proverbs 8:30,"then I came to be beside him as a master worker.."John 1:10
eternityandforever 9 months ago
do you wanna talk chronology? How about figures for the Bible for 3000 years. Recognize any of them? 1307 & 1556 & 1656 & 2242 & 2256 & & 2262 & 2264 There is a reason such figures exist, and while you or religions argue which one is true by shoving all the others into the category SATANS LIE, you totally miss out on the proof against evolution, and so cannot see the only year Adam was created is 4025bc.
JehovahsElijah 11 months ago
Your attacking JWs for being dumb, of which they are, was not the Jews God's people and yet so stupid? But look around and tell me who is there that is not stupid among men. Learn anything grand and wise and all-incompassing profund in truth and everybody thinks without their reading any book, any words, no school, no conversing and exchanging knowledge that they just seem to know more than anyone who reads or learns or educates himself. Granted education doesnt mean all you read is truth
JehovahsElijah 11 months ago
When Moses wrote about Eve, he did not personally meet Jesus on earth. So you have to go forward into Bible that was not yet written to find out that Jesus taught that God created all things thru him. Now you must ask was Jesus wrong to teach this. The answer is, this man was ressurrected to heaven. Did God make a mistake to do this for a man who taught he was the firstborn.
JehovahsElijah 11 months ago
So your concept of read Bible not magazines doesnt explain why churches and book stores write about the Bible and yet you do not state we should avoid all those books and all those magazines. You are selecting only WT books and mags to say don't read them. While you say nothing about 100s of other authors writing ABOUT our Bible, the Bible.
JehovahsElijah 1 year ago
@JehovahsElijah I just made a video about this just days ago...
21crosscheck21 1 year ago
@21crosscheck21 ..Brian ..I absolutely loved this video..you hit the nail on the head...outstanding..If their version is correct which we know is not, but if it were than they have Jesus Christ as Jehovah at Gen 2:21..I know about Michael but they really are ashamed of that teaching and you hardly hear them bring Michael up too much unless it is a young just converted very zealous convert..Most J.W.'s can't wait for the WTBTS to change the Michael is Jesus doctrine..that would be the fifth time!
jbjoeychic 10 months ago
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@jbjoeychic -Genesis 1:26 says Jehovah God and Jesus made man together."And God went on to say;"Let us make man in our image." verse 27, "And God proceeded to create the man in his image, in God's image he created him, male and female he created them." So here shows that God is really directing the creation process, and Jesus is working with him."
eternityandforever 9 months ago
@JehovahsElijah -Hey, when you found an original HUNDRED DOLLAR BILL, and the government varified it as legal and accurate TENDER, why would you then take all the FAKES? When you look at all the other ones, and compare it to the real one, and they are proven "fake". IT'S SIMPLE. We have proof of our teachings. The bible backs it all up- WE ARE REALLY TEACHING THE BIBLE ACCURATELY WHETHER YOU REALIZE IT OR NOT. Nothing else will do when you see all the UNTRUTH IN THEIR LITERATURE as I do.
eternityandforever 9 months ago
Comment removed
JehovahsElijah 1 year ago
Jesus himself said all things the Father did was all thru him. So it is Jesus who taught that things written down as done by Jehovah were all as things that were done by using Jesus.
JehovahsElijah 1 year ago
The answer to your question is that this book you seem to think is gospel is only an aid in study. Please note that everything written has scriptures to back up this book or aid. Also, you can study from any Bible.
CrownVic4761 1 year ago
In answer to this video:
God made Jesus out of nothing, he made Eve out of Adam (who was made through Jesus). So it still stands, Jesus was the only one directly created by God.
It can even be said that Jesus was made out of God's substance. Everything else was made through Jesus. So yes, Jesus is special.
xLonewolf 1 year ago
@archeng123 By being simple, you don't ask for grand things. But, the question becomes "What are you seeking"? James said, "Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts." (Ja 4:3) He does make things clear, however, He wants us to focus on life through Christ. Salvation is our ultimate goal, which comes through Jesus Christ only. "This is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ". (1 Jn 3:23)
rpierre777 1 year ago
Great Question.
Keep up the good work!
jcdied4all 2 years ago
an arch angel is a lesser being than god and not the same
MrAubery 2 years ago
Are you saying Jesus is an angel? Have you read Heb 1? That option is not available. So I would ask if Jesus is not an angel, what is he in reference to his nature? If you insist he is an angel on what scriptural basis do you make that determination? In Jude, Michael would not rebuke the devil but Jesus, at the time of his temptation rebuked him to his face. So if Jesus is an angel he can't be Michael. What angel do you maintain him to be. Have any biblical reference I may read? Thank you kindly
Shiloh2rtn 2 years ago
it's the speaker who is saying jesus is michael the arch angel and I was correcting him, implying that jesus cannot be an arc angel. what are you smokin????
MrAubery 2 years ago
What "speaker" do you refer to?
Also, so I can be clear, who do you say Jesus is in regards to his nature? If he is not an angel, then what?
Shiloh2rtn 2 years ago
the speaker I refer to is the one who made this video. Jesus is not an angel, he is lord over all.
MrAubery 2 years ago
The author of this video hardly believes Jesus is Michael the archangel. No need to "correct" him. His videos are for the purpose to get JW's to think outside the confines of Watchtower theology. He attempts to use simple logical thought to expose glaring inconsistencies within WT theology. The end is to demonstrate that the WT doesn't actually speak for God the way JW's thinks it does. Rather he points exclusively to the bible as any Christian would. Glad you agree Jesus is not Michael.
Shiloh2rtn 2 years ago
God created all things through Jesus. That's a given. Jesus always gives credit to God. Jesus would not say "I did this myself". No matter who physically did it, all credit goes to GOD. You really don't see jesus or the good angels taking credit for anything. It is god's doing, or god's will. Wheather it was jesus or a clown named bozo is not the important part.
MrAubery 2 years ago
You are missing the point. If you read the text word for word it is Jehovah God who was doing the creative work in forming Eve from Adam. You say it is unimportant because you know if you take it at face value it contradicts WT doctrine. Your comment demonstrates why discussing scripture with JW's is generally fruitless. You only accept WT interpretation even when the simple text, contrary to WT dogma, is staring directly in your face. To cavalierly dismiss this simple exercise is folly. Think!
Shiloh2rtn 2 years ago
Comment removed
MrAubery 2 years ago
Collossian 1:15-16
PROOF
MrAubery 2 years ago
I'm sorry
COLLOSSIANS 1:15
COLLOSSIANS 1:16
COLLOSSIANS 1:17
MrAubery 2 years ago
Here is a public apology.
I'M SORRY FOR SWEARING AT YOU AND CALLING YOU SWEAR WORDS.
MrAubery 2 years ago
I was not looking for an apology but I humbly accept it. It takes a man to do such a thing. So you have my appreciation as well as my respect. May the Lord bless you as you seek to glorify Him in all that you do.
Shiloh2rtn 2 years ago
TheSacredSecret is a phony. Pretends to be 'christian, yet I received this PM "if you said that to my face i'd put my foot so far up your ass you'd never have the guts to talk shit about me again. LOL!
poconoporker 2 years ago
Comment removed
TheSacredSecret 2 years ago
Here is how I would explain it. Jesus was used as an instrument of creation. In other words, everything came to being through Jesus. Like Jesus said, "I do nothing of my own initiative" (John 8:28)
Even we pray 'through' Jesus. He acts as a mediator or link to the father (Romans 1:8). This is a reoccurring theme throughout the Bible.
Thus, it was still Jehovah who created Eve, and everything else. Jesus was an instrument of creation, not the source of creation.
anzwertree 2 years ago
What Anzwertree said.
ratboi102 2 years ago
Great Vid
Yes! Read The Bible, without the book!
xJWTruth4You 3 years ago
The other thing is that Jesus "cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he beholds the Father doing. For whatever things that one does, these things the Son also does in like manner." (John 5:19) So, when Jesus was used to create things he did it with Jehovah, hence Jesus was the only thing Jehovah God created without any help. So, it might look like Jehovah creates Eve at Gen 2:21, but in fact it's Jesus. And BTW, Eve was not created, but instead built from Adams rib, made.
JehovahGodsWitness 3 years ago
you do know that is just a bunch of fairy tales.
icemom09 2 years ago
21crosscheck21 you just got busted. Jehovah's angel cannot be Jehovah himself because to say Jehovah is an angel is blasphemy and takes all his glory away. Shame on you. Jehovah God only spoke 3 times, that we can be sure of, in which human beings could hear him. This was at Jesus' baptism, the transfiguration, and when Jesus was dying on the torture stake. Any other time ,besides Jesus' and John's birth, in the Bible it was the angel of Jehovah, Michael the archangel, the Word Jesus Christ.
JehovahGodsWitness 3 years ago
Re: "God only spoke 3 times, that we can be sure of,"
Ex 19:9 The LORD said to Moses, "I am going to come to you in a dense cloud, so that the people will hear me speaking with you and will always put their trust in you."
That wasn't God speaking to Moses on Mount Sinai?
rachelbinto 3 years ago
Comment removed
mikemcp 2 years ago
No NO No. Stop adding to Gods Word! The Bible N.E.V.E.R.R.R.R.R.R says that The Michael is Jesus. Show me in the Bible where Jesus says that I am really "Michael The Archangel". You cannot do it.
viper2808 2 years ago 2
Show me in the Bible where JESUS says that I am really "Jehovah GOD" or even "God". You cannot do it.
TRUTHINTHEBIBLE 2 years ago
"before moses was, I am (aka Jehovah)." - Jesus
"your ancestors did not realize that they were always speaking of me." - Jesus
KeyboardPacifist 2 years ago
Also,if the father is too holy to be beheld or to be likened to man,why is the son,as a coequal in holiness able to be beheld and to be likened to man?
Imfelicity4u 3 years ago
When did angel stop meaning angel and when did son stop meaning son?
Imfelicity4u 3 years ago
And I appreciate it when you highlight our literature.The Catholic and Protestant religions are responsible for most of the world being familiar with the Bible and Jesus. It's to bad they forgot to bring the truth of the Scriptures with them.
Yes Jesus created Adam, Eve, the angel who became Satan and everything else.
Moses saw the face of God, even though the context shows clearly it was the "angel of Jehovah" he was speaking to. He, as the Logos, was probably Jesus, speaking for Jehovah.
TRUTHINTHEBIBLE 3 years ago
John 1:1 The Logos was God.
viper2808 2 years ago
I thought the Logos was "with" God?
TRUTHINTHEBIBLE 2 years ago
See video: John 1:1 - perfect explanation of the misunderstanding. /watch?v=h0X4BXQQ-tQ&
anzwertree 2 years ago
Anzwer can you give the link ti the video again.... it didn't work.
21crosscheck21 2 years ago
21cc21 What was the sign that Gideon had asked for in verse 17?
"you must also perform a sign for me"
Josiahvidz 3 years ago
Wrong question.... the question is: who was he talking to?
Verse 14: "Jehovah TURNED to him and said..."
21crosscheck21 3 years ago
Well how about verse 22 "Consequently Gid′e·on realized that it was Jehovahs angel."
Josiahvidz 3 years ago
That should be a clue to you as well!!!!
21crosscheck21 3 years ago
21cc21 This video shows your lack of Holy Spirit. In Genesis Chapter 32 I believe it was Jacob wrestled with an angel and the angel told him that he contended with God. So many times in the bible when angels did things it is said that God did it. This is nothing new.
Josiahvidz 3 years ago
Read your bible brother, and humbly submit to what it says. The Idea that Angels created is a myth that originates with apostate Jews.
Isaiah 44:24 Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, And He who formed you from the womb: "I am the LORD, who makes all things, Who stretches out the heavens ALL ALONE, Who spreads abroad the earth BY MYSELF;
21crosscheck21 3 years ago
So are u denying my post? Why no comment on Gen 32. Do you agree that many times angels where refered to as Jehovah? If an angel uses Jehovah's power to create then it is actual Jehovah who is creating.
Josiahvidz 3 years ago
I have already commented on this a number of times above.
Does God use angels at times..... yes. Does that mean he used them in creation, NO. He says that he did it alone.
Let me ask you, If I said I fixed my car ALONE, do you think that angels helped me?
21crosscheck21 3 years ago
Let me also add that THE ANGEL OF THE LORD is Jesus, as Jesus is God.... that is why that angel receives worship and is called Jehovah.
Remember angel means "messenger."
21crosscheck21 3 years ago
This seems like a little double talk can you elaborate a little more.
Josiahvidz 3 years ago
What part?
21crosscheck21 3 years ago
Comment removed
Josiahvidz 3 years ago
21cc21~Let me also add that THE ANGEL OF THE LORD is Jesus, as Jesus is God.... that is why that angel receives worship and is called Jehovah.
Josiahvidz 3 years ago
Are you saying that The Angel of Jehovah does not receive worship and is not called Jehovah?
21crosscheck21 3 years ago
This just seems like a strange comment from you because you say Jesus is not angel. Yet here you say he is "ANGEL OF THE LORD" and that he was an angel who received worship. So I must be seeing this wrong. RIGHT?
Josiahvidz 3 years ago
Kind of...... Jesus what not an angel in the sense of nature, but in "function" as a messenger.
Now The Angel of Jehovah is a specific messenger that is both called Jehovah and worshiped.
21crosscheck21 3 years ago
Now you see what I meant by double talk.
Show me where the angel was worshipped.
Josiahvidz 3 years ago
In a time of crisis the angel of the LORD visited Gideon to give encouragement (Judges 6:1124). It climaxes with worship in verse 2021, "The angel of God said to him, 'Take the meat and the unleavened bread and lay them on this rock, and pour out the broth.' And he did so.
21crosscheck21 3 years ago
Then the angel of the Lord put out the end of the staff that was in his hand and touched the meat and the unleavened bread; and fire sprang up from the rock and consumed the meat and the unleavened bread. Then the angel of the LORD vanished from his sight."
21crosscheck21 3 years ago
Note carefully what happens next. "When Gideon saw that he was the angel of the LORD, he said, 'Alas, O LORD God! For now I have seen the angel of the LORD face to face.' The LORD said to him, 'Peace to you, do not fear; you shall not die.' Then Gideon built an altar there to the LORD and named it The LORD is Peace. To this day it is still in Ophrah of the Abiezrites" (vv. 2224). You do not build altars to angels, and you do not worship angels. That would break the first commandment.
21crosscheck21 3 years ago
How is it that you deduct that the angel was the one that the altar was built for. Also the fact that he did not die by seeing the angel is proof that he was not God. Gideon new seeing Jehovah would kill him.
Josiahvidz 3 years ago
Read it again.... follow the context.
21crosscheck21 3 years ago
Still don't see it 21cc21. I will tell you why. I constantly says "Jehovah's angel". Now if this was Jehovah himself why would it always keep reassuring you that it was an angel? KJV says "The angel of the [true] God". How can he be an angel of God and be God at the same time?
Josiahvidz 3 years ago
Don't get me wrong either 21cc21 I am reading everything you are pointing out and trying to see it. So I am not just dismissing you comment I am looking but not seeing the same thing as you.
Josiahvidz 3 years ago
Let me see if I am understanding what you say to read.
Judges 6:11-24
Judges 20:21
Is this correct
Josiahvidz 3 years ago
SO now ,not only are you willing to say Jesus was playing pretend that he was inferior to Jehovah,but now he's PRETENDING that he is Jehovah's angel..ANGEL MEANS ANGEL.SON MEANS SON.Study up on the agency bearing the name of the principe be4 you make such uninformed claims misleading others!
Imfelicity4u 3 years ago
Felicity you may want to read Philippians chapter 2.
21crosscheck21 3 years ago
And you might want to read hebrew history.Does the bible say Jehovah emptied himself or that christ did?Does th ebible say Jehovah sent himself or his son.Time to reassess the your preconceptions be4 diving into the word of truth.
Imfelicity4u 3 years ago
So am I supposed to take your word for it or do you have scriptual evedence?
Josiahvidz 3 years ago
DO YOU have a holy spirit you use to guide those you use as your agents?GREAT comparison!(not)
Imfelicity4u 3 years ago
right but the angels when accomplishing Jah's will and purpose are sometimes called Jah,a common hebrew thing :)
Imfelicity4u 3 years ago
JwinCT let me ask you once again (I asked you earlier but you have not yet answered.) -
Do you in the Name of Jesus Christ Our Lord and Savior reject Satan and ALL his works, and ALL his empty promises?
JITLAGOAM 3 years ago
Funny how you should be so WELL-VERSED in "Satan's empty promises"!!
Must be that you've been living by them all your life!!? Or at least know them well enough to call them "pal"??!?
I will not answer your drivel.
JWinCT 3 years ago
Yikes Jwinct..... I am not only surprised you didn't answer that, but hat you called it drivel.
21crosscheck21 3 years ago
I only give an answer to those I feel deserve it.
Even though you didn't deserve this response f.
But just to clarify my stand.
I'm tired of dealing with apostates, opposers, and those who very soon are going to lose their lives at Armageddon. It's like pulling teeth to try to help those of your sort. You neither know nor want to know the real Jesus nor his heavenly Father who created him!!
You don't want the truth--your choice.
But stop making others as much candidates for Gehenna as YOU
JWinCT 3 years ago
Jake, I beg you to examine your hateful comments. What kine of a tree does such venom filled fruit come from?
I pray that the Father will draw you to the Son and lead you to repentance.
21crosscheck21 3 years ago
"I'm tired of dealing with apostates, opposers,..."
JW, then why do you continue to come to these boards and leave comments that do not build up, but rather, tear down? Perhaps you should heed God's word when it says:
"Be wise in the way you act toward outsiders; make the most of every opportunity. 6Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone."--Col.4:5-6
fairwhether1 3 years ago
Peace be with you JWinCT. Are the words I speak not in Truth? Please by all means point out which ones and how. Better yet, feel free to answer the questions. I bless you in the Name and by the Precious Blood of Jesus Christ Our Savior.
JITLAGOAM 3 years ago
You must see I'm just trying to help you. I assure you God IS real. He loves you. Follow him, not False Prophets.
JITLAGOAM 3 years ago
OK, we won't follow YOU.
LOL!!!
JWinCT 3 years ago
You said: they never claimed Jehovah told them anything
Yet you also said: DID THESE MEN CLAIM TO SERVE THE ALMIGHTY GOD?
Yes.
You don't see a problem with such reasoning?!
JITLAGOAM 3 years ago
"But if a prophet presumes to speak in my name an oracle that I have not commanded him to speak, or speaks in the name of other gods, he shall die.' "If you say to yourselves, 'How can we recognize an oracle which the LORD has spoken?', know that, even though a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if his oracle is not fulfilled or verified, it is an oracle which the LORD did not speak. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously, and you shall have no fear of him. Duet. 18:20-22
JITLAGOAM 3 years ago
1 down 4 to go.
JITLAGOAM 3 years ago
Great! I see you answered question 2.
JITLAGOAM 3 years ago
You said: when they said anything that was outside the bible they claimed fallibility and said they "DID NOT KNOW"
Great. If all they said had no relevence to God and His Word then you should have absolutely no trouble at all then answering the questions!
Furthermore: Are errors and mistakes still sins?! Are there consequences for sin?
JITLAGOAM 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Still again:
1. Did the first 4 JW Presidents Speak/Proclaim the Prophesies/Predictions that they made IN THE NAME OF THE ALMIGHTY GOD?
-If not then in whose Name did they proclaim them?
2. DID THESE MEN CLAIM TO SERVE THE ALMIGHTY GOD?
JITLAGOAM 3 years ago
Still again:
3. Was the Word of God (Scripture) EVER in the content of their Prophesies/Predictions?
4. DID THE ALMIGHTY GOD COMMAND THEM TO SPEAK THESE PROPHESIES/PREDICTIONS?
5. Did their Prophesies/Predictions EVER bear Witness to the Name of Jesus Our Savior?
JITLAGOAM 3 years ago
umm..if you're referring to the dates they set,they never claimed Jehovah told them anything and yes JW's talk about recognize revere and accept Christ as the way,the truth and the life,the way to reach Jehovah and savior :)I recommend reading "the greatest man who ever lived."
Imfelicity4u 3 years ago
Why on earth would such questions as:
DID THESE MEN CLAIM TO SERVE THE ALMIGHTY GOD? ever be found difficult to answer?
JITLAGOAM 3 years ago
DID THESE MEN CLAIM TO SERVE THE ALMIGHTY GOD?
Yes.
Imfelicity4u 3 years ago
now answer mine please
Imfelicity4u 3 years ago
Wait a sec, So you acknowledge the existence of the questions I keep asking, but would rather that we collectively ignore them and focus instead on questions that you have asked after the fact??!
JITLAGOAM 3 years ago
For goodness sake I did answer..when they said anything that was outside the bible they claimed fallibility and said they "DID NOT KNOW"
Imfelicity4u 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Yet again:
1. Did the first 4 JW Presidents Speak/Proclaim the Prophesies/Predictions that they made IN THE NAME OF THE ALMIGHTY GOD?
-If not then in whose Name did they proclaim them?
2. DID THESE MEN CLAIM TO SERVE THE ALMIGHTY GOD?
JITLAGOAM 3 years ago
Yet again:
3. Was the Word of God (Scripture) EVER in the content of their Prophesies/Predictions?
4. DID THE ALMIGHTY GOD COMMAND THEM TO SPEAK THESE PROPHESIES/PREDICTIONS?
5. Did their Prophesies/Predictions EVER bear Witness to the Name of Jesus Our Savior?
JITLAGOAM 3 years ago
I forgive you for saying: "I have answered."
in response to the questions seen below.
JITLAGOAM 3 years ago
Oh I had oposted that before your questions even.I was talking baout answering this video,which is what I thought you were talking about.Maybe you could answer MY questions.
Imfelicity4u 3 years ago
I thought you said that you HAD answered? Deceit is not of God.
JITLAGOAM 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Once again:
1. Did the first 4 JW Presidents Speak/Proclaim the Prophesies/Predictions that they made IN THE NAME OF THE ALMIGHTY GOD?
-If not then in whose Name did they proclaim them?
2. DID THESE MEN CLAIM TO SERVE THE ALMIGHTY GOD?
JITLAGOAM 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Once again:
3. Was the Word of God (Scripture) EVER in the content of their Prophesies/Predictions?
4. DID THE ALMIGHTY GOD COMMAND THEM TO SPEAK THESE PROPHESIES/PREDICTIONS?
5. Did their Prophesies/Predictions EVER bear Witness to the Name of Jesus Our Savior?
JITLAGOAM 3 years ago
1. Did the first 4 JW Presidents Speak/Proclaim the Prophesies/Predictions that they made IN THE NAME OF THE ALMIGHTY GOD?
-If not then in whose Name did they proclaim them?
2. DID THESE MEN CLAIM TO SERVE THE ALMIGHTY GOD?
JITLAGOAM 3 years ago
Yes they did. And today Jehovah's Witnesses Condemn those in the organization who do what Russel and the other presidents back then did, meaning make false predictions about when the end will come.
You have to realize, we haven't been around very long compared to other churches. Back in Russel's day there wasn't much in our practices to distinguish us from the Catholics. We believe that such things are un-biblical. But back then, we didn't know better.
Qrion70 3 years ago
Not sure...what about 2034? WT 15/12/2003: Noah, 120 years, flood, Genesis 6:17, 1914 +120 = 2034...
We know JW are experts in "only X years only and the end will come..."
False prediction or not? Let's wait and waste time...
bebedeppe 3 years ago
Reprehensible.
Immoral.
Idiot.
JWinCT 3 years ago
What? To wait or to waste time? Both! I agree with you.
bebedeppe 3 years ago
I don't remember ever hearing them say the end was coming in 2034. Tomorrow I'll dig out the 2003 Bound Volume and read that Issue. I wish you had told me what page it was on, would make it a lot easier to find. When I get back from the meeting in the morning, I'll come back and tell you what I found out.
Qrion70 3 years ago
3. Was the Word of God (Scripture) EVER in the content of their Prophesies/Predictions?
4. DID THE ALMIGHTY GOD COMMAND THEM TO SPEAK THESE PROPHESIES/PREDICTIONS?
5. Did their Prophesies/Predictions EVER bear Witness to the Name of Jesus Our Savior?
JITLAGOAM 3 years ago
They have always claimed fallibility when they speculated about anything that was outside of scripture..In other words,they said "WE DON'T KNOW".
Imfelicity4u 3 years ago
The Fact exists that IF the first four founding presidents of the JW organization WERE False Prophets then the validity of all that they said and taught (including the NWT "bible") comes into question. It's just that simple.
JITLAGOAM 3 years ago
What the bible teaches isn't questionable..that is what I'm studying right now.The trinity is a WILD philosophy.Who was it in the OT who said there is no God but ME?(as opposed to US?)Did the OT prophets think he was talking about his triune nature?
Imfelicity4u 3 years ago
You wanted to know where Jehovah was credited for doing something alone that someone else did.I provided texts.You chose to ignore them.Shame on you!lol
Imfelicity4u 3 years ago
Isaiah 44:24 NKJV Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, And He who formed you from the womb: "I am the LORD, who makes all things, Who stretches out the heavens ALL ALONE, Who spreads abroad the earth BY MYSELF;
Isaiah 45:12 NKJV I have made the earth, And created man on it. I MY HANDS stretched out the heavens, And all their host I have commanded.
Try this on a JW and watch their faces!
IDH77 3 years ago
Floodtube and Brian, You are both hitting it right on the head. I too have experienced this kind of reasoning from JWs and seen it in their literature. Unless you are well versed in the Bible you will not know what the Bible really says in context to refute their questions.
rachelbinto 3 years ago
What they are really doing is basing what God can be based on their own reasoning and morality. This is the root of all idolatry.
21crosscheck21 3 years ago
Those that adhere to christendom's false teachings of trinity are taking part in idolatry. Worshiping the creation instead of the Creator.
Idolater!!!
JWinCT 3 years ago
PART B
Did you know the very first words from the serpent to Eve was a question?
Asking a question of God's word when the answer is already clear?
The Watchtower pepper their litrature with questions to make the reader doubt what the bible really says.
They ask more questions and then some more. The poor JW is put in a state of confusion so they will happily and readily take the false answer the WT give them.
The WT puffing themselves up as watcher over their flock. That's Christ's role!!
floodtube1 3 years ago
lol..pretty funny..always tellin JW"s to ask themselves questions...so should you!If you have a doctrine that is described as a mystery,esp. if it is pertaining to Jah's numerical value,you BETTER ask questions.
Imfelicity4u 3 years ago
PART A
I have had a lot of experience of Jehovah Witnesses using this same line of reasoning. Such as:
Could you take your own nephew's hand and burn it on a hot stove? (Hell denial)
God can't use agents to accomplish things by means of his spirit? (He can and does, but not creation)
interesting.If you had a beloved firstborn child you wouldn't use him and give to him?
You would ignore his presence as he desired to help you?
Questions, questions.
All to make you doubt God's Word.
floodtube1 3 years ago 2
What the snake implied to Eve was that she wouldn't REALLY die,which is EXACTLY what Christendom teaches today..that no one REALLY dies..everyone never perishes.Amazing!Jesus didn't even REALLY die for three days did he?
Imfelicity4u 3 years ago
ANOTHER outstanding comment!!
I tip my hat to both you and evantisin, imfelicity!!! Well researched, well studied observations based purely on scripture!
WONDERFUL!!
JWinCT 3 years ago
Col 1:15-20 states that Christ is the image of the invisible God, and that by Christ EVERYTHING in heaven, on earth, things seen and unseen ALL THINGS have been created by him. It continues to say that Christ is before ALL THINGS and that Jehovah was pleased to have ALL his fulness dwell in Christ. The description continues to say that the reason for all these things and more is that in ALL THINGS Christ might have the supremacy.
There's the Context. Pre-eminence or first creation?
rachelbinto 3 years ago
If you look at these texts in light of 1 cor 15:27,28 and Prov 8,what would be a reasonable conclusion??Are we to assume that Jehovah has to say that Jesus is supreme above all others EXCEPT FOR THE ONE WHO MADE HIM THAT WAY every single time?Even 1 cor says "IT GOES WITHOUT SAYING" lol..so ya know what,I'll reiiterate it for ya..IT GOES WITHOUT SAYING IT IS WITH THE EXCEPTION OF HIS GOD AND FATHER WHO gave him all things :)
Imfelicity4u 3 years ago
Babyl On, Christendom!!
JWinCT 3 years ago
Very funny :o)
floodtube1 3 years ago
JwinCT let me ask you:
Do you in the Name of Jesus Christ Our Lord and Savior reject Satan and ALL his works, and ALL his empty promises?
JITLAGOAM 3 years ago
Great Video! BTW Excellent point. On a somewhat seperate note it makes me wonder if there are perhaps some possible implications involving Mary and JW "theology" as well.
JITLAGOAM 3 years ago
God can't use agents to accomplish things by means of his spirit?interesting.If you had a beloved firstborn child you wouldn't use him and give to him ?You would ignore his presence as he desired to help you?And cuoldn't you take credit for what he did if your spirit was what REALLY did it all?
Imfelicity4u 3 years ago
Felicity that is simply a red herring.. the question is not can that happen, rather it is DID it happen.
You continue to use Moses as an example but never provide any scripture. I would love to see the scripture that says, "and Jehovah went to Pharaoh and let my people go, then Jehovah threw the staff on the ground etc....."
Give me some apple to apple scriptures
21crosscheck21 3 years ago
Some passages in the Bible say that God performed the miracles in Egypt and other say that Moses did. Does this mean that Moses is God?
In Exodus 7:1 God says he turned Moses into a "god" and Aaron into a "prophet," which reflects how God was using Moses to indirectly perform miraculous signs and plagues in Egypt.
Regardless of how the signs and plagues of Exodus are discussed in the Bible, God (the Father) takes the credit.
It's like how God sent his angel in Exodus to be his "presence."
evantisin 3 years ago
Exodus 7:17:God [now] says, 'Through this you will know that I am God.' I will strike the water of the Nile with the staff in my hand, and [the water] will turn into blood.
Exodus 7:19,20:[Aaron] held the staff up, and then struck the Nile's water in the presence of Pharaoh and his officials. The Nile's water was transformed into blood.
Was it Aaron or Jehovah Cross?Which was it?
Imfelicity4u 3 years ago
So it is your position that Gods "hand" is a staff and actually struck the water.? Because that is the only way the comparison works.
Or is it more likely that his "hand" indicates his power?
21crosscheck21 3 years ago
God doesn't literally have hands Cross..Jesus is called the Arm of the Lord is that literal?His "hand" is his spirit(yessum activated power) and Jesus personifies something he uses as a tool,"a master craftsman" if you will..?In what instance has Jesus ever accomplished anything without HIS GOD'S holy spirit upon him??De nile ain't just a reever een Egypt.
Imfelicity4u 3 years ago
"Jesus personifies something he uses as a tool,"
Really??? Jesus is a tool personified? I pretty sure that Jesus was a real person :>)
21crosscheck21 3 years ago
Jehovah uses many angels and ppls as tools in his purposes.Doesn't mean they are not really angels or ppl :)
Imfelicity4u 3 years ago
I don't have a problem with the tool part, it's your use of "Personified."
21crosscheck21 3 years ago
I wish you would answer who really parted the waters and led the israelites and who really used turned the Nile into blood?Was it Moses,Jehovah or Aaron?Acc to this video it would seem if Jehovah did this then Aaron and Moses could've had no part in any of it.
Imfelicity4u 3 years ago
What have I said in my other post.... try to follow here. God used Moses.... but God did NOT say that he struck the Nile with his staff as you tried to assert. Clearly that was a metaphor that you attempted to twist in a way to support your argument.
God however DID say that HE opened, took, closed and fashioned EVE.
21crosscheck21 3 years ago
By means of his holy spirit,which he gives Jesus without measure.And as we've seen,when he uses that spirit through someone else,an agent if you will,he can rightfully take credit :)
Imfelicity4u 3 years ago
I think some of your confusion may be in understanding what the holy spirit REALLY is.
Imfelicity4u 3 years ago
Exodus 12:51:And on that same day the LORD brought the sons of Israel out of the land of Egypt by their hosts.
Deuteronomy 32:12:The LORD ALONE guided him, And there was no foreign god with him
Exodus 15:22:So Moses brought Israel from the Red sea, and they went out into the wilderness of Shur
Was it Moses or Jehovah cross?Which was it?!
Imfelicity4u 3 years ago
You continue to miss the point!!! where in Genesis 2 did God say Micheal did this?
If everything you preach is from scripture then show me!!!!
21crosscheck21 3 years ago
Felicity, seriously... in this passage who does the BIBLE say opened Adam, removed the rib and fashioned Eve? Unlike ALL your other passages no one else is Mentioned.
Does God use others to do things, of course. If you think that is the point of contention here you are mistaken. The question is does Gen 2 indicate that he did.... the answer is NO.
21crosscheck21 3 years ago
Jehovahs Witnesses are systematically taught to site the word firstborn in Colossians 1:15 and suggest it makes Christ a created thing/first created. This is a heresy that has its roots in False Prophets.
JITLAGOAM 3 years ago
This is an abomination (see Rev. 22:18-19) since the Word of God must be added to in order to even support such a theological presumption. The Greek for "firstborn" is proto with tikto. This is what we find in Col. 1:15. The Greek however for "first created" is proto with ktizo. The Truth is clear. Furthermore, the very fact that even the NWT translates it as firstborn demonstrates that there is definitely a known distinction.
JITLAGOAM 3 years ago
Jit, excellent comment. I pray that many will carefully read what you have written here.
21crosscheck21 3 years ago
If thats not enough, the most rock solid evidence for what firstborn means as pertaining to Jesus is found in the very next verse! Ill ask you: Why is Christ called the firstborn of all creation? -The answer? Verse 16: For in Him were created all things in heaven and on earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things were created through Him and for Him.
JITLAGOAM 3 years ago
Notice the For in Him at the beginning of the verse. In the NWT bible it even starts verse 16 with the word because. Even stronger! Why is verse 16 ignored?! Is verse 16 not the explanation of verse 15?! The verse clearly shows that firstborn in verse 15 expresses Christs Preeminence in relation to ALL Creation.
JITLAGOAM 3 years ago
Yet, all this must be overlooked in order to support a heretical teaching that Christ exists as a created thing. Still dont believe me? Again: all things were created through Him and FOR Him. Either we believe that Jesus was a selfish servant since He created everything for Himself, or we believe that Jesus is God! Furthermore, the word other (all [other] things) has blatantly been added to the verse 16 in an attempt to diminish its content.
JITLAGOAM 3 years ago
The WatchTower openly acknowledges this fact through the use of brackets but tells you it has been done for clarification! If thats the case then the words use would undoubtedly clarify and strengthen the fact that Jesus created ALL things as Gods Word declares! Obviously, this is not the case. Ill ask you: Did the God create ALL things? Did Jesus create ALL things? These 2 little questions create one massive problem for JW theology.
JITLAGOAM 3 years ago
The only way one (a JW) would be able to say that Jesus is still a thing and yet created ALL things is through the use of intellectual dishonesty. By such reasoning if Jesus is a creation but at the same time created ALL then He would had to have created Himself!? Furthermore, if Jesus created ALL things and yet somehow is not God, then this very distortion undermines and corrupts the very meaning of ALL things when it is applied to God.
JITLAGOAM 3 years ago