Atheist Talking to Christians

[andrewprofit]

@TheUnstained Mankind is also fortunate to have Jesus as our lord and savior, men are saved through grace, that is unmerited favor because Jesus whom God the Father loves wants us to be with him. Not everyone is cut out to spend eternity on the new Earth for some as abserd as it sounds the lake of fire may be a better place. Many are called but few are chosen.

[andrewprofit]

@TheUnstained you assume that eternity in heaven or on a new earth is significantly better than eternity in a lake of fire. According to the bible 1/3rd of the Angels have choosen to spend eternity in that lake of fire rather than spend eternity in Heaven. Mankind is fortunate in my opinion rather than spend infinity in heaven then to have a war and then 1/3rd spend infinity in the lake of fire we will be done with that painful part after only 120 years on earth per person.

[Johnorbiz93]

guys... God loves us all

He sent His Son to pay the price for our sins

yes He does send people to Hell.. but thats our choice.

God is like a parent. He love His children, and like any good Father, He will punish you when you do wrong.

when the guy in here reads about fearing God, He means to respect His athourity (this is what i take from the verse, srry for bad spelling) and the Bible really shows us that He loves us. This comment is for anyone who will listen

Goodnight and Godbless

[n0n0nSenSe]

@Johnorbiz93 i think it's horrible some else should be tortured and murdered for someone else's mistakes, which btw i didn't have any say in. It's human sacrifice and i oppose it in every way. i'll take responsibility for my own actions. And i prefer people do the right thing out of common sense, rather then out of fear of eternal punishment. How (if it were true) could people in heaven feel any bliss knowing millions are being tortured downstairs? how dare you call that love? that's repulsive.

[pahlrosp]

So, you are a bad person if you dont try and save people from hell, but the one who is responsible for sending people to hell is the most loving and caring ever?

[absc313]

Yes, however... belief & faith are not identical. Always remember this is a gift, ask and you shall recieve. Ask God to forgive you and bring you to Heaven. How you demonstrate that is by showing you can love Jesus, & brother i promise you...soon you will get to know Jesus in the way that I do and see how very,very easy it is to love Jesus for the sake of God.

[absc313]

You have my word.

[absc313]

No my friend...worship is a falsehood. What worship really is is love. In heaven you get to feel Gods love for you everyday, something youve asked for for a long time, why doesnt God just show me he is real and he cares? Well, he will very soon, regardless of your sins, non-believers like yourself will be ushered into heaven by God himself. Even though you don't believe,that doesnt take away the fact that you are the opressed ones now. We Christians will help you find God no matter the cost.Love

[DeadlyChinchilla]

It takes quite the amount of gall to assume only your version of "love" is valid. Whats more, this is your personal interpretation, and not at all what your holy texts say. The only "love" in the Bible is the DEMAND that you love only that invisible entity, or else he will punish and torment you forever... for what cause? Because he LIKES causing pain. What good is eternal torment? Can you be redeemed? No. Its not only false, its a senseless punishment meant to scare little children.

[absc313]

Demand? If you don't want eternal torment all you have to do is say so, & God will listen. The bible doesn't refer to love as a demand, what the bible really says is that God just wants you as a friend. We love our friends we have here on Earth, what's so evil about someone who intervenes in your life because they just want you to know they truly care more about who you are as a spirit rather than who you are because of your decisions. There is only one version of love, the love God has for you

[DeadlyChinchilla]

Aww, how cute. "If you would just give up your life and free will and free choices, you'd be fine!" The logic is astounding.

The Bible makes so many inhumane demands that no person could or should try and hold true to it. Love is not genocide, or raping virgins, or destroying cities, or murdering the first-born, or incest with your father, or torturing good men to win 'bets'.

The Bible advocates and demands so much evil it sickens me that you could call it or its god a source of love.

[absc313]

Your letting evil dictate you.I did not even hint towards rape and genocide being incorporated with love because it is not. Why are you going to let other peoples acts of hate affect your faith?You did not commit those terrible aspects of life.Its called having faith,if things could be perfect than this would not be Earth,it would be Heaven.You are still using your mind to feel when it is not your mind that can feel, you must use your heart. All wrongs will be righted,use your heart,that is God

[DeadlyChinchilla]

Evil dictates nothing. You're making grandious assumptions.

Your holy book clearly does "hint" such things. You can't ignore that and present yourself as "innocent."

Having faith has nothing to do with being a good person, or doing good or bad works. I also didn't ask for things to be "perfect." Nothings perfect. There's no need to pretend in a perfect afterlife, especially to the detriment of THIS life.

Feel less, THINK more. Wrongs will not right themselves with happy feelings.

[absc313]

I could less about the book friend,too many men have had a say in how it was written.Like i said,use your heart to think.But you have opened my eyes,the book is the problem,weve forgotten other men wrote it,not God.We are our own being just as God created us,he does not intend for only one way of worship,he created us to be unique,we need to find God on our own,not through some book.But search your feelings,if there is a God,dont you think a being with supreme wisdom would know love is the way?

[DeadlyChinchilla]

And now, when confronted with your book, you say you *know* its a problem, but that the god depicted in it is still just like you WANT him to be... kind, generous, loving. Sorry, but either he is the god as portrayed BY his own holy text, or he is not a god. There is no 'adopting' gods you might like out of their homes.

No, I don't know a supreme being would "know love is the way." Thats your personal hope, and as such, you assume its the truth. Because if its not, you can't handle it.

[TheRydog100]

This is what I beleive. It dosent matter what your faith is. You can beleive what you want to beleive. Really Faith is just something made up by Humans to feal comfortable with there lives because people cant stand the thought of there being a Unknown force controlling EVERYTHING. It dosent matter what faith you have just that you make other people happy, be a good person, and try to enjoy your life.

[TheRydog100]

Basicly my life philosophy all wrapped up into one phrase is, LIFE MOVES FAST IF YOU DONT LOOK AROUND ONCE IN A WHILE YOU MIGHT MIGHT MISS IT.

[prunt23]

Why would you suggest using something that only pumps bloody around your body over using your brain?

[carlosisdBOMB]

Religion...lol

[unrest655321]

The only time an atheist has ever been right? So everything I've ever said (as an atheist myself) is incorrect. So if I say "there is a God" then there must not be one.

[logicKey101]

Without questions there can be no real answers!!! So if you do not question the church how can you know if story they tell is the truth? I would have to say that anyone who adopts blind faith in a church or god & a system of beliefs that teach you that you must do all these things in order to be saved is ultimitly very selfish, as all the good they do in life is for the purpose of ensuring there own place in heaven, & not a genuine want to help anyone but !!!THEMSELVES!!! serve PEACE Not god!!

[MarowakDidIt]

Yes... there is a HUGE difference between open-mindedness and gullibility.

[Kamili1950]

Satan made a similar claim to God about his servant Job. If you read the account in the bible you will find that Job served God out of love, not out of rewards. Satan of course said that Job only served God because of being rewarded, Job proved Satan to be the liar he clearly is. True Christians worship God out of love not fear. I do not believe in hell fire, it is just another lie Satan has made people believe about God. Do some research, there is no literal hell fire. Hell is the grave.

[Cootabux]

Kamil

I totally agree about hell, but it's in scripture and it's taken literally by most all Fundamentalist Xians. How do U tell them it's Satan's lie?

Do some research?

I've studied the OT, NT, the Apocrapha(s), the Forbidden Books, the Torah, the Latin Vulgate, and now I'm on the Codex Sinaiticus.

I was a Xian for over 50 years before becoming an Atheist 2 years ago. Six years before, I spent on intense research.

Study Horus who lives long before christ. Then tell me what U think?

[darksparrow13]

Kamili1950, you say God never condoned rape in the Bible? I don't recall Mary consenting to being impregnated while she slept. That sounds like rape to me. I suppose of God did it, it must be ok though. Right? If your tyrant God did turn out to exist, I would dedicate my eternity in hell to overthrowing the bastard. And I doubt I'd be the only one.

[Kamili1950]

I don't recall Mary saying she was raped, and obviously she would know. Mary is human, God is a spirit and the Creator of all things. He did not need sex to create. Good grief. Also, If you were in hell, as if such a place existed, I would suggest you spend your time trying to get those flames off your behind, I think that would be your most immediate problem. Pretty hard to go after anything with flames shooting off your butt.

[Cootabux]

Kamil

Are U one of people who make flames shoot out of their but now?? Seems like U have an obsession with it.

I don't don't believe in hell but use it from a Xian perspective to make my point, which I see you've missed.

[Cootabux]

Kamil

Tell me something, do U see the "sons of god taking the daughters of men" as in Enoch, do U see them as spirits too.

"God is spirit." R U sure?

Bcuz U read it in scripture, U automatically believe it, literally?

Do U think every word in scripture is the inerrant word of god?

Just curious.

[Kamili1950]

Underling, murder is the unjustified killing of another person. What makes you think God was or could be unjustified in having any people killed? Where is your evidence of murder? God never condoned lying or rape in the bible.There are some harsh things that happened in the OT, but there are reasons for them. If you would like to have a bible study and learn the reasons why God acted as he did in some cases, I would be more than happy to assist you on your journey to find the true God.

[Cootabux]

Kamil...

I was a Xian for over 50 years before becoming Atheist.

I say absolutely that god did order the deaths (murder) of innocent women & children. And at least 1 verse he told Hebrew warriors to rip the fetuses from the wombs of their mothers! God oasl advocated slavery. Also Misogyny!

I have debated this issue many times before. I will be happy sir, to debate this with you publicly right here on youtube.

I've heard all the rationalizations & justifications for god's acts & condemn them all.

[Kamili1950]

First, I need you to tell me where to look in the bible to find the find where God ordered the the Hebrews to rip the babies out of the wombs of their mothers. In my comment, I never denied that slavery of a sort was tolerated, and a womans husband has headship over her. I also have no desire to argue God with you. I find arguing boring and a waste of time.Since you have heard everything, there is no need for me to tell you anything. I am however awaiting Underling to respond to my offer.

[Cootabux]

Kamil

Oh, I'm sure U have nothing new to tell. I do find it curious that when I start raising these questions, Xians start talking about not wanting to argue.

[Cootabux]

kamil

JS 11:6 The Lord orders horses to be hamstrung. (Exceedingly cruel.)

JG 21:10-12 "... Go and smite the inhabitants of Jabesh-gilead with the edge of the sword and; also the women & little ones.... every male & every woman that has lain with a male you shall utterly destroy." They do so and find four hundred young virgins whom they bring back for their own use.

2KI 2:23-24 Forty-two children are mauled and killed, presumably according to the will of God, for having jeered at a man of God.

[Cootabux]

Kamil

2KI 6:29 "So we cooked my son and ate him. The next day I said to her, 'Give up your son so we may eat him,' but she had hidden him."

2KI 15:16 Menahem ripped open all the women who were pregnant.

IS 13:15 "Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their ... wives will be ravished."

IS 13:18 "Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eye shall not spare children."

[Kamili1950]

I don't have time right now to go over all the scriptures you sighted, but at 2KI15:16 if you read further you will see that in verse 17 & 18 Menahen "continued to do what was bad in Gosd's eyes." You are either taking things out of context out of ignorance or malice, but you are being deceptive.

[Cootabux]

Kamil..

I'll be very straight with U, I've only seen deception and dishonesty from other the Xians I've talked to. Ha, I'm still in the habit of saying other Xians!!

I have about 60 of these verses. I knw that 3 R not accurate, which I just found, but I haven't had a chance ti read them yet. That's fine. Any that aren't relevant, we can just dscard. I'm only interested in those that apply to yahweh's commands to his Hebrew men. I wish I had time to have gone over them, but it doesn't matter.

[Cootabux]

Kamil..

One thing..as an example. Speaking of malice, I have dealt with Xian Creationists and have found that they R openly, blatantly deceptive and dishonest in all that they offer in support in creationism, or ID. Truly sad.

[Kamili1950]

I am sorry I have not gotten bgaqck to you, I have not been well. But I will tell you this, I believe in God, and that he created all things. I do not presume to know or inderstand the dynamic power of the Creator, so there is no need for me to be deceptive. I have faith and the bible. I also have to just look around me and everything I see is designed. Where there is design, there is a designer. Tell you what, send only scriptures you want me to comment on, that will be easier for me. Thanks

[Cootabux]

Kamil

Sorry for listing so many but I thought they all would be worthy of noting.

HO 13:16 "They shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up."

MT 3:12, 8:12, 10:21, 13:30, 42, 22:13, 24:51, 25:30, LK 13:28, JN 5:24 Some will spend eternity burning in Hell. There will be weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth.

LE 26:22 "I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children."

[Cootabux]

Kamil

I'l be happy to list them for U.

NU 31:31-40 32,000 virgins are taken by the Israelites as booty. Thirty-two are set aside (to be sacrificed?) as a tribute for the Lord.

DT 2:33-34 The Israelites utterly destroy the men, women, and children of Sihon.

DT 20:16 "In the cities of the nations the Lord is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes."

JS 7:19-26 Achan, his children and his cattle are stoned to death because Achan had taken a taboo thing.

[Kamili1950]

Our job as Christians is to first, love God with our whole heart soul mind and body. The next is to love our neighbor as ourself. God does not say he will burn sinners, but he does promise everlasting life to those who choose to follow him. That is our job, to tell people this. God gave us all free will. Who could possibly love a mean spirited vengeful God who burns people? No person of compassion could. My God is not just loving, the bible says, HE IS LOVE. I must love, or I am not a Christian.

[Underlings]

"Who could possibly love a mean-spirited, vengeful God who burns people?"

Good question. If you read the Old Testament, you can see countless examples of God either condoning or committing murder, genocide, child abuse, rape, slavery, theft, lying and torture. Even if I could convince myself of his existence, I would certainly not love or worship any being who could behave in such an evil manner. Sorry, but I do have standards and principles, and supporting evil is not one of them.

[MarowakDidIt]

You say that an all-powerful God gave us free will so that we could be happy. If he wanted people to follow him so badly, then he should have just made humans into robots and made the divine universal law that only robots can feel happiness.

[Cootabux]

Kamil...

Then is he schizophrenic? If the god of the OT & NT R the same, then how do U reconcile his OT angry, vengeful, sadistic nature with the love preaching JC of the NT?

The truth is, U can't! Maybe it would make better sense to U if U understood the difference in mentality between the men who wrote the books of the OT with the authors of the NT!

And why would such a god feel the need to use fear & intimidation to gain converts? and what kind of monster would create a hell? & Y eternal?

[Kamili1950]

You sir do not have a clue to my beliefs about God and why I believe as I do. If information you seek I will help you. If an argument is what you seek, you will need to look elsewhere. I do not argue for the sure sake of arguing. If you have been a Christian for over 50 years, then you should be aware that there are 3 terms used, and all are rendered hell.Two simply mean the grave, the other is fire, which is simply symbolic of total destruction.

[Cootabux]

Kamil

Scheol, Hades, Tartarus, Gehenna.

None of the above have anything to do with hell or eternal suffering. Hell didn't start to be really included until the NT books.

The last one, Gehenna, is just outside Jerusalem and is where the "fires always burned"...it was the city dump.

[absc313]

God doesn't send anyone to hell, they send themselves.

[Cootabux]

abs..

Totally untrue!

Original Sin is putting the blame on man.

God made hell, not man. God made the rules!

To say that we send ourselves to hell is like me holding a gun to your head and telling U that if U make a wrong turn, I'll pull the trigger but U will be blowing your brains out!

It's an old cop out that won't work anymore on thinking ppl.

Of course, I don't believe a loving forgiving god would send "anyone" to such a place. That isn't justice, only sadistic cruelty of the worst kind.

[absc313]

To get into Heaven your name must be written in the book of life. We have to make sure it gets there on our own, if we choose not to work hard enough, when we see Judgement day we will know we didnt do anything to get our names in the Lambs book, and the pain of that will weigh your soul down with depressings, and not ascsend up, but instead descend. God sent Jesus as our savior, dont accept that than you are sending your own self to hell not God, God created us to be in HIS kingdom.

[Cootabux]

abs..

Xians love 2 shift the blame!! "It's not god that sends us to hell...it's U!"

What absurd nonsense!! No 1 would send themselves to hell! Haven't U read my previous posts here?

Wake up!

U think Orig. Sin is justified?? Eve is intentionally deceived, she secumbs, then god curses humanity??

If I don't believe something that sounds insane to me then our loving, compassionate, all-forgiving god with send me to eternal torment??

U parrot that stuff without thought don't U. I had 50 yrs..no more!

[Kamili1950]

Cootabux, I have a question for you. You are always bashing God, talking about hell fire and such. First, there is no hell fire and second, you talk about God being wrong. Did you read anywhere inj the bible where Adam or Eve said they were sorry or asked God for God's forgiveness? No, Adam blamed Eve and Eve blamed the serpent, but nobody said God I am sorry I sinned, please forgive me. I would like your response.

[Cootabux]

abc..

Listen to this video. It's not about what the Xian should do, He should be thinking about a god that we must fear!! Why? Why does god need to use fear & intimidation to win us over? Thats not love! Do U use the threat of torture on your children? Could U torture your child 4 disobedience? For any reason?

I was a Xian until I started to "think" & ask questions. Then I started to really study Xianity...the early church. U have no idea what's behind Xianity...none. Use your brain 4 a change.

[absc313]

Remember Jesus.Original sin damned us for life, born evil.GOD created hell so that we can learn the lesson it threatens of.Jesus was sent to teach us,love all those around u just as you love the saviour,love ur neighbors as u love your parents and ur children,for u can be born again through my son-GOD.U are a child of the Lord,if u cant understand hell is there to make sure one day suffering doesnt exsist,then you have not learned to love others,& wont want in heaven,& send urself to the pain.

[Cootabux]

abs..

What U describe is teh Golden Rule. That's how I've always lived my life.

But about Hell. U say it's a lesson? U mean it 's a threat? If we don't do just as god says we R doomed to hell? We also go to hell for not believing in him. Does that sound just & ok to U? Do U think we deserve hell for stealing, or cursing, or maybe not believing in jesus? Y is hell eternal? What possible purpose does eternal torment.

No 1 send themselves to hell. That's an old cop-out.

[bigblakblob2]

god creates people knowing thier future. so before he even creates every new person on this earth he knows if they will go to hell or not. he may have given us free will to choose heaven or hell. but he knows which we will choose.

so your supposed "loving and just god" creates people that he knows will burn forever.

sounds like a great guy, he really does.

please reply back to me on this if you have an answer.

[Kamili1950]

I will be glad to answer your question when you ask one about my God. My God is spelled with a capital G. If you do not have the most elementary respect for other people and realize that they are entitled to respect even if you disagree with them, we have nothing further to talk about. I can say with almost absolute certainity that you would capitalize Romero and Juliet even though they are fictional characters. So even if you do not believe in my God, your disrespect is unacceptable.

[Cootabux]

Kam..

Then it's time to say bye bye.

I dont use caps and I use the usual shorthand, such as xianity instead of christianity. I do use them sometimes without realizing it bcuz it's automatic. But here it saves time. If U have such a hang-up with a generic term for adeity then I think your priorities R in the wrong place, but that's up to U. It makes no diff to me.

[Kamili1950]

God chooses to not forsee our futures because that would mean we were predestined and not have free will. He allows us respect to do as we choose, so he chooses to not look ahead and see our eventuality. He does however warn us of the consequences of disregarding his word. Also, there is no hell fire, hell is the grave. God does not burn people, if he were that evil, he would not have to pretend to be good, there is nothing anyone could do to stop him. The truth is, hell fire is a Satanic lie.

[Cootabux]

Kam...

Excuse me but it states in scripyure that "god knew everything we will do before we were born!"

Even if it didn't say this, we would still know that god would have to know bcuz he is Omniscient. That tells the whole story.

I agree whole heartedly with you about hell. My point is that, bcuz of certain scripture that implies a literal hell, the gretaer majority of Xians believe it. Hell is the point of Xianity. Many R getting closer to the truth & it's showing. Ppl R changing about U.S.

[Cootabux]

big..

U R absolutely correct. Xians seldom will respond to your excellent point. If they do, it's rarely honest. They usually try to double talk around the point.

And for god to do such a "sacrifice" then I find god to be inherantly evil.

[Kamili1950]

Cooyabux, I don't know who big is but if he asks me a question I will respond. You however have still not responded to me. You see, I believe in God and the bible, and unlike some Christians you may have come across, I have also read it. You didn;t cap Jesus name, that is not sending a message, it is ignorant. I bet you cap Hitler when you spell his name. One can disagree without being rude and just nasty. God is one thing, it is a title. But Jesus is a name, and should be in capitalized.

[Cootabux]

big..

I forgot to mention this before.

I take the free will question a bit further. How can free will be free, if we are threatened for using it as we see fit?

If something is free, there's no conditions! If free will was truly free we could use it without the fear of being threatened with hell!

If U could, would U send a human being to hell...for any reason?? I couldn't, no matter what the crime.

[absc313]

That wasn't a good answer. There is no "my" God, it's "our" God. The lord is just as much yours as is mine. But we can't call ourselves God's creations right now, we don't listen, so how can we complain about what happens to us if we don't listen to someone who loves us. God doesn't want anyone of us in Hell, other wise he wouldn't have sent Jesus. Hell can be undone at any moment, we just have to proove we've become responsable enough.

[absc313]

Only thing worse than Hell, is ending up there and finally realizing that your whole life God was crying out to you wanting help and love you, but you did't listen.

[Cootabux]

abs..

Do U really think about these things? This idea of us sending ourselves to hell for making the wrong choice is rather fookish, dont ya think. It's like me holding a gun to your head & I tell U that if U make the wrong turn from what I want, I'll pull the trigger but it waon't be me blowing your brains out. It will be U for making the wrong choice.

Does that make sense to U? \

Look, it's god's game & his rules. If we fail, we aren't sending ourselves anywhere, god is.

[absc313]

No...you'll understand it soon, i have faith in that. God sent Jesus for us remember. It's truly as simple as this, love Jesus, that is all you have to do to get into Heaven. If you can't love someone who saved your soul, do something about that immediatley, because you are sending yourself to Hell. Hell is the one place love doesn't exist

[Kamili1950]

Cootabux, I posed a legitimate historical fact to you from the bible, and I think you owe me a response. I think it is completely rude to not use caps when spelling out God, and I think you do it to be rude. But what I asked I think I deserve your response.If you have one.Also hell is the grave. Life is a gift of God, if you want to live in his world, you must do his bidding, if not you are not tortured, you just cease to exist. Hell is the grave. We are rewarded not punished for obeying God.

[Kamili1950]

I am a Christian and you, based on your understanding of the bible is reasonable. But let me show you something, go to Jer 7:31,There God says,"burning my children with fire a thought that did not come into my mind or my heart." Hell fire is a satanic lie passed on by people who profess to know God and the bible, but do not.Adam and Eve did the worse sin, they brought death to all their children and God passed sentence on them. God said, "dust you were and to dust you will return." No fire.

[SexyMelon]

This is a brilliant point indeed.

[FangFiftyFive]

You have a point, but I don't like the idea of encouraging that obnoxious preaching.

[ThankYouESM]

I am 100% certain there is no compassionate almighty god... otherwise such a god would always keep us from any harm rather than let people suffer in vain over an ego.,. and that in itself is extremely selfish.

[Miroku6510]

This video just ignores the people that try to convert others. You idiot hypocrites bitch when we DON'T try to convert you, but you bitch even more when we DO. When I say idiot hypocrites, I don't mean all atheists, I mean the ones that always try to make religion sound so horrible. If people want to believe in God, trust me, you're not giving them ANY doubts. What they believe in is a lot stronger than whatever you say.

I think you should mind your own business and tend to your own beliefs.

[scottklarr]

I wouldn't have a problem with people believing stupid shit if it didn't affect my life, but unfortunately religion DOES affect my life and it is constantly being forced upon me by our society through politics, the media, and the general population. Christians think that they have the right to use their delusions to control how I behave, and at the same time, they expect me to "respect" their beliefs and not question them. Religion IS pernicious to society and I will not stand by idle.

[KillaCamRon360]

Also the healing process was supposed to take 2-3 weeks {according to a direct statement from the doctor that performed it}and the incisions were healed in 3 days because God did it,theres no coincidence about that.

[RealityBend]

Again, full credit to the prayer. How can you tell god did it? When do you consider a wound healed? Thigns like that you avoid =\ Most "medical miracles" that people claim happen from medical misdiagnosis. The doctor mistakenly diagnoses that the person may have cancer (when they don't) and they go home and pray. Then they come back and it turns out they really don't have cancer. AND BOOM, PRAISE THE LORD< HE CURED THEIR CANCER

[RealityBend]

Also, many atheists and agnostics experience the same kind of medical miracles. (Sometimes from misdiagnosis as with the religious counterparts) Such as cancer mysteriously dissapearing or people becoming brain dead and spontaneously come back to life. although not at the same rate, (88% of america is christian after all)

[scottklarr]

Your god is almighty, right?

Your god has plan for everyone right?

Your god will change his plan at the whims of a human prayer, right?

Then your god is either incompetent, stupid, or forgetful - probably all three - but he most definitely he is not almighty if a single human prayer can change the course of his plan.

The willing ignorance of believers is mind blowing!

[KillaCamRon360]

God is still here you people just dont wanna believe that He can make miracles happen,what i say is anyone who says miracles cant happen is "Absolutley stupid"

[RealityBend]

HERE IS A LIST OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE DIED BECAUSE THEY SAUGHT PRAYER INSTEAD OF DOCTORS, THEY ALL COULD HAVE BEEN SAVED WITH SIMPLE SURGERY'S. Neil Beagley Roberto Caceres Jessica Crank Warren Trevette Glory Debra Harrison Tovia Laufau Matthew Lincoln (fell down during faith healing and hit his head and died) Keenan Littlefield Lucas Long Madeline Kara Neumann Sarah Parkinson (actress) Darrell "Wayne" Perry (songwriter) Bo Phillips Ava Worthington 'absolutely stupid" is believing in prayer

[RealityBend]

Praying is not a substitute for medicine. Back in the day when people had no knowledge of the body or medicines, it was that if you were sick, your a sinner. I see you have held on to this incredibly ridiculous belief.

"two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer"

[KillaCamRon360]

I agree that prayer is not a substitute for medicine,thats why we have medicine that helps for that but for the things that cant be healed by medicinal aid then you gotta have faith that God will heal you from that,like when my church was praying for me when i had heart surgery that the surgery went ok and the healing went ok afterwards,so they were praying constantly and i got out of surgery,it was supposed to be a 4 hr surgery and i got out in 2 with no complications.

[RealityBend]

Can't be healed by medicine? Like what? Everything can be healed by medicine at some point. Sure maybe they do not have a cure for a certain disease... YET! but does not mean medicine cannot heal. So far, in the healing department, medicine healed more a thousand times over =\

You give more credit to the prayer than to the doctors and time spent into developing the surgery. That pisses me off.

Lets say you didn't get surgery at ALL

Could prayer heal that? NO! only a surgery can.

[scottklarr]

Its funny how god never heals an amputee or other problems that are not within treatment of todays medicine- does he not like them or is he just not capable? Its quite a coincidence that the only miracles that happen are within the range of our medical abilities.

So many people who die every day, why does god not save them? are they not as important as the nutcases who see the virgin marry in their toast? How does god decide which life is worth more?

[Miroku6510]

More miracles happen than medical miracles, what rock do you live under?

It's hard for any human to grasp that perhaps, death is better than life. Because of the belief in heaven. So, dying is bad to us, but maybe not to God.

[scottklarr]

Where is your proof of this BS claim? Our average lifespan in the modern world is thanks to recent advances in science, not from increased praying.

I may not live under a rock, but I think it's clear that you live under a sheath protecting your precious fantasies from the real world.

[Miroku6510]

I never said that I said that there aren't just medical miracles. I never even told you my "fantasies", the only reference to my beliefs I made was when I said "we".

You can question them, but calling it "stupid shit" isn't the same. Respecting it is not hard. Respecting is not believing, so you can do it. Atheists are the same way they try to force their beliefs on people, but I have no problem accepting them even with their beliefs if they can put Christianity passed me.

[Miroku6510]

And I'm not going to claim every miracle was from God, but your medical miracle comment was very stupid. If you want proof of a miracle not pertaining to health, just look at the Christmas Truce. God may or may not have had anything to do with that, but it's still a miracle no matter how you look at it.

[scottklarr]

If you define a miracle in the non-supernatural sense (God may or *MAY NOT* have had anything to do), then I do believe in miracles - its called chance or luck. If I trip and land just inches from a spike that would've killed me, I would not call it a miracle, I would call it pure chance - just the same as if someone else landed on the spike and died, I would not curse a supernatural being for causing it.

If 1 persons cancer of a million suddenly disappears, its chance - not a miracle by God

[Miroku6510]

My whole point is it may or mat not have been from God. I think just about everyone truly knows that. And the difference between Theists and Atheists is that one has faith that it is God, and the other has faith that it is chance, or something else.

And it's just plain stupid to critize either one, because you don't know the right answer. No matter how much you think you do, you can not be 100% sure.

[scottklarr]

And neither can the major religions who ACT like they do know absolute truth and try to make me conform to what they believe is the ultimate truth.

I don't have a problem with the belief in a god, and I don't necessarily say there is no god - what I say is that theres no way that any of the bullshit religions of today are right, when they have been preceded by thousands of other equally ridiculous beliefs. It is stupid and arrogant to worship something as fact when it is not.

[Miroku6510]

We actually have more in common in this subject than I thought. I don't think there is any way for anyone on earth to truly know God or comprehend Him. The best we can do is to believe in Him and hope for the best, if you ask me. People can claim to know so much about Him through the Bible, but even so, that was made by man. Who knows if they misinterpreted God's words.

Ignoring science just because you think it is offensive to your God annoys me, too.

[scottklarr]

Glad to hear :)

It's sometimes hard to really get a feel for a persons stance on something in these tiny 500 character comments lol.

I'm not anti-god, I'm anti-religion (although I do not believe there is a god for lack of evidence and presence - but I wouldn't in good conscious say there is none in one form or another). It's easy to blend the two together when discussing religion.

[scottklarr]

If you are certain there is some greater being, that's a perfectly valid hypothesis that you can pursue, but when people act as if they know anything about the being and preach it, they are just plain fucking stupid.

"accept Jesus and you will live forever with him in heaven, if you don't, he will punish you forever" - yeah, and pixies visit me every night and sprinkle their magic dust on me.

[scottklarr]

I respect your RIGHT to believe whatever you want, but I will not give undo respect to what you believe, especially when there is so much horrible byproducts of it.

[scottklarr]

And just as you have the right to believe in things that don't exist, I have the right to criticize your delusions - especially when they AFFECT MY LIFE, WITHOUT MY CONSENT.

[KillaCamRon360]

And you deists believe that God may've created the world but then just left it right?you couldnt possibly say that because there was a time when missionaries went to africa and while there,a few of them asked the woman that they were staying with if they could do anything for her and she said yes,pray for my dead babies burial so the missionaries gathered around the baby wrapped in burial cloth,prayed that it would be ressurected in Gods name and in a couple min. the baby was alive and crying

[RealityBend]

"And you deists believe that God may've created the world but then just left it right?" Nope, someones an idiot.

I looked all over for this news report, couldn't find it. If it was some chain letter someone sent to you then its really not credible.

[KillaCamRon360]

How, then, have we gotten to the point that everything we have done for 220 years in this country is now suddenly wrong and unconstitutional?

[KillaCamRon360]

Rediculous?? What is truly rediculous Bend,Trying to fight something that you believe doesnt exist?? or me standing up for the God i was raised and the country was founded on?

[RealityBend]

Whats truly ridiculous? Believing lie after lie of evidence that god exists?

Or researching things for yourself and thinking for yourself?

(PS, we already established that the founding fathers agreed to keep the country secular, some were chrsitians some were deists/agnostics, but they agreed religion and government should be kept seperate) THE MADISON STATEMENT YOU QUOTED WAS A HOAX. Can you read that?

[KillaCamRon360]

one other question,if we evolved from apes/chimpanzees/monkeys/your grandmother/ then why are there still chimps living? i guess they havent had the right DNA in their bodies to start their individual evolution into humans,or maybe they didnt have enough time.

[RealityBend]

Evolution does not say we came from chimpanzees you idiot. That more christian propaganda against evolution.

[MonsterMagpie]

And here is one everyone should do (Atheists and theists alike) STOP MAKING STUPID NUMBERED REQUIREMENTS OF PEOPLE... ;)

[MonsterMagpie]

Heres three things theists should do: 1.) Learn how to open a text book (NOT THE BIBLE OR THE QUR'AN.) 2.) Use the library system. 3.) And get a decent Education! And I do let you believe in what you want, did I say you couldn't? I was just responding to something YOU said. Why did you (KillaCamRon360) ask a question if you weren't trying to convince him of something? And I do have a real hobby, these messages take about 5 seconds to respond to.

[zzgdoga]

if you don,t want god maybe you won,t get god

i don,t believe in hulmiliating anybody

What is a gift? A gift has to be given. Happy people respect everybody including themselves.

Why would we have to respect our bodies if they belong to us. Those with a ear hear.

Respect everybody

[KillaCamRon360]

The thing is,WE ARE scouring the streets but you atheists don't recognize us because we're not dressed in lavish suits all the time carrying around Crosses like some atheists picture us as doing

[Killer0fTheSun]

No but you chistians are just really stupid to think that your fantasy is the least bit real.

[KillaCamRon360]

Wow kid why don't you let people believe what they want to believe.And by the way why are you tryin to fight what you dont even believe exists anyway??

[Killer0fTheSun]

Im not fighting,im trying to help the mentally ill.

[KillaCamRon360]

Ha lol thats funny kid,real funny

[MonsterMagpie]

Why do you keep on calling him, "Kid"? Is it more childish to believe that there is an invisible man, whom you will be forced to be Judged by when you die, or that there is indeed nothing after you die? I believe that facing the obvious truth, rather than hiding in scripture is the "mature" position.

[KillaCamRon360]

Ok so i'm supposed to believe that my Great uncle evolved from a monkey over millions of years?? HAHAHA maybe next time...

[MonsterMagpie]

You can believe whatever you want, even if it is wrong. It is up to you to decide whether or not you want to listen to (And Think) about science, or a book over 2000 years old, starch with contradictions. Science says that we evolved from the common ancestor of Apes and Chimpanzees (Science has never claimed that we have evolved from monkeys, we are closer genetically to Chimpanzees). The bible says that a magical man spoke, and created EVERYTHING in 6 days. You decide which is the fairytale.

[KillaCamRon360]

You know you're right about 1 thing,I can believe what i want,oh wow so i "Evolved" from a poop slinging,bananna eating tree swinger huh?and "monkey" is a general referance to primates all together.Why do you people constantly pick at Christians??Trying to prove our "dominance" are we??well keep tryin kid see where it gets you.ok so how can you explain the Chariot remains and horse bones found in the Red Sea,suppose they got hot and took a dip??probably not,hmm Which is the fairytale...Evolution

[MonsterMagpie]

Why do you use the term kid? It seems that I have a much more mature way of rationing than you do. But back to what matters: It does not matter, WHAT a monkey refers to, evolutionarily speaking we evolved from a common ancestor, before the genus split into several different organisms. Uh, did I even say that you were FUCKING Christian? You could be any of the 390 denominations (120 being of Abraham). The Wheel is actually a submerged hand wheel, the style is different than that of Eyptian.

[KillaCamRon360]

Well lets see,atheists have always been out for Christians since the THEORY of evolution came about,ok so the wheel maybe a hand wheel but how do you explain the soldiers and horses bones then??I'm sittin here tryin to have a conversation with you and you're getting mad,It must make you mad that i'm not submitting to you as an atheist,i call you a kid because you're acting like one,not Minding your own buisiness,you people always have to have it your way and butt in when its not necessary

[MonsterMagpie]

We are not out to get anyone, I did not know you we Christian when I replied to your comment. You could have been any of the hundreds of possible religions out there.  I read the report and it seems that there are not any bones, soldiers etc., and only that one "Wheel," would you be so kind as to send me a link? If you wanted me to mind my business, why did you post a comment? I have the same right to speech you do.

[KillaCamRon360]

I'm sure you could find it if you search on google,it was sent to me a while back through email and i've gotten hundreds of emails after that so i dont know where exactly it is in my mailbox,but if you look hard enough you'll find it through google,and i posted those coments because i dont like when Christianity is being attacked like that so i stand up for what i believe in as anybody would do

[MonsterMagpie]

Why don't you search "Wheel found in red sea"? I found 755,000 hits. I can understand if you can feel "protective" over a long held belief that is being questioned, I was much the same way before I read into the subject more.

[clubsoda69]

That's something I was thinking myself. WHY DO ATHEISTS SPEAK EVIL OF GOD IF THEY DON'T EVEN BELIVE HE'S REAL? If you don't believe in something, why waste so much of your time debating it? (I think its because you don't LOVE God, not that you don't BELIEVE in Him.)

[MonsterMagpie]

Why don't you believe in Thor? I contend (Without evidence, I may add) that you actually do believe in Thor, but just don't love him! Why don't you actually talk to an Atheist before you make wild assumptions?

[KillaCamRon360]

Because "Thor" is depicted in literature as a known MYTH,every book i've read in that area describes the norse gods as Mythological,as with the greek gods. Heres a list of 3 things every atheist should do in their lifetime:Let people believe what they want to,quit trying to prove everybody wrong and get a real hobby

[RealityBend]

What is funner and more productive than showing christians their errors? I read your comment on evolution, gave me a good laugh i must say. Shows you are spoon fed with creationist propaganda. Since when did evolution say we came from monkeys? I don't know about you, but evolution states we came from homo erectus. Evolution is a factual and observed phenomena, the theory simply tries to explain the fact of evolution. Maybe the books are wrong? Watch out, youl be damned to the bad valhalla!

[KillaCamRon360]

haha Homo Erectus,sounds like homo erection LoL well if we knew for sure which belief was 100% true we wouldnt be having this conversation right now would we??Oh and spoonfed as opposed to what,hand picked from the trees??haha i'm not worried about "Valhalla" cause i don't believe thats where i'm going.Again i say Valhalla is knownas a MYTH

[RealityBend]

Lol,yes we would, we're having the conversation right now. but your right, we SHOULDN'T be having this conversation. Creationists all around are being ignorant to every aspect of the evidence, even going as far as trying to band it from schools. Spoon fed as opposed to and independent thinker, not hand picked (which doesn't make much sense) Since when does not believing in something make it disappear? ad populum declares it a myth, but ad populum is a fallacy. whats the proof it doesn't exist?

[RealityBend]

What if there is a religion no one has ever heard of. And everyone who didn't discover the religion is sent to hell, including you. Whatever you "believe" has nothing to do with the outcome of the universe. Your beliefs have no effect on the universe. Just because you "delieve in god doesn't make him real. Depiction has nothing to do with facts, but whatever the depiction, you have absolutely no way to disprove norse paganism besides the populations belief, which is a fallacious argument,

[RealityBend]

"believe" *

[KillaCamRon360]

you act like atheist are never wrong,well guess what?Just because you believe that God isnt real doesnt make Him non existent,oh and you said "Even going as far as trying to ban it from schools" last time i checked ATHEISTS were trying to ban Christianity from schools and even the crosses from arlington national cemetary.now how better to honor our fallen soldiers then to take their own crosses from their graves?dont act like you're the one being attacked kid

[RealityBend]

You act like christians are never wrong, but guess what? The evidence points towards the non-existence of the christian god. I never said i was an atheist FYI, i am a deist in the sense that god may have created the universe, but not humans. Since when did atheists try to ban religion? Evolution was proposed in science class and approved, christians proposed ID as part of the science curriculum but it was denied. But this was only public schools, if ya want religion go to a christian school.

[KillaCamRon360]

Ok...what evidence points directly{not the general "over millions of years" crap} at point that God doesnt exist,well there is evidence that God exists,what about back in the revolutionary war when the british were going to overtake the white house and they couldnt cross the river because there was a very heavy fog on ONLY that side of the river,if they had've crossed the river we wouldnt be free now would we?

[RealityBend]

Well the theory of evolution (a proven phenomena), as well as the historical innacuracies of the bible (what with it claiming humans have only existed 6,000 years)

but these disprove only the christian god, God may have created the universe and life, just not humans.

Im not sure what your getting at here, The white house wasn't built yet. And how is this proof for god? If anything its the opposite because most of the founding fathers were deists and agnostics. not christians.

[KillaCamRon360]

ok keep thinking that if you want to kid...

[KillaCamRon360]

it was Washington{the capital}that was going to be stormed by the british troops but the fog was blocking only the side of the river that the british were on,you call it coincedence i call it providence. and there were numerous times where President Washington was going to be shot from point blank range but they didnt pull the trigger.

[RealityBend]

Providence huh? George Washington was a deist you idiot!

"Religious controversies are always productive of more acrimony and irreconcilable hatreds than those which spring from any other cause." - Washington- (Letter to Newenham)

He never went to church and even requested no christian ritual at his funeral. He didn't like the church or its sacraments. Your making a completely ridiculous argument.

[KillaCamRon360]

Our founding fathers were believers whether you think so or not,Fifty-two of the 55 founders of the Constitution were members of the established orthodox churches in the colonies.

[RealityBend]

The point I am trying to make is that the founding fathers were secular. They did not found the country on any particular religion. In the treaty of tripoli it clearly states " The united states is in no sense founded on the Christian religion"

[RealityBend]

Actually you are wrong, it was a misquote by David Barton. In fact, it wasn't misquoted, it was ENTIRELY MADE UP! GOD YOUR SUCH A FUCKING IDIOT, BELIEVING EVERY FUCKING THING SOMEONE PUTS IN FRONT OF YOUR IGNORANT FACE.

[RealityBend]

First of all there were more than 55 founding fathers. Second, Them being a member of a church does not necessarily mean they were christian. Heres some quotes from some of the most famous men in america.

Washington: "Religious controversies are always productive of more acrimony and irreconcilable hatreds than those which spring from any other cause."

Madison: "Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."

[KillaCamRon360]

Patrick Henry, that patriot and Founding Father of our country said:

'It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded not by religionists but by Christians,not on religions but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ'

[RealityBend]

so? he was a christian. But hes only one of many who think that, Madison made it very clear that religion and government should remain seperate. Which is why he wanted a secular government.

[RealityBend]

Continued:

even Abraham Lincoln:"The Bible is not my book, nor Christianity my profession."

Franklin: "The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason."

Jefferson: "We discover in the gospels a groundwork of vulgar ignorance, of things impossible, of superstition, fanaticism and fabrication ."

Paine: "Of all the tyrannies that affect mankind, tyranny in religion is the worst."

The most famous founding fathers agreed to keep the US secular to strengthen freedom of religion.

[KillaCamRon360]

havent you heard President Lincolns life story?? he WAS a christian and from a christian family you cant say that he was a deist because in saying that you would be defacing his entire moral standpoint.

[RealityBend]

Are you an idiot? If you've read it (which you most likely didn't) you would read that he never joined a church and even wrote a treatise against christianity, your a fucking moron. John T. Stuart, lincolns first law partner said this about Lincoln. "He was an avowed and open infidel, and sometimes bordered on atheism. He went further against Christian beliefs and doctrines and principles than any man I have ever heard."

Your an absolute idiot. go LEARN SOME SHIT SRSLY

[KillaCamRon360]

I never said he joined a church you idiot i said he was RAISED by Christian family/mother,you call me and "Absolute idiot" because im a christian huh? Well you probably knew that if gravity had been off by 1 part in 10 to the 40 then we couldnt exist right?

[RealityBend]

I called you an absouolute idiot because you said that Lincoln was a christian. Thats why you are an absolute idiot. you bring up points that have been pointed out to be false. You are now changing the subject because you are losing. After all the subjects we have been talking about you have lost every one, then you change the subject.

[RealityBend]

You got that from a creationist video. That was said by Lee Strobel, a LAWYER, not a scientist.

"What is a lawyer doing making predictions about the fundamental force constant of the universe? This statement has about as much academic credibility as a burger flipper lecturing a brain surgeon" (thunderf00t)

Look up "why people laugh at creationists part 10" A scientist on youtube explains it better than I do. Itd take many comment boxes to write it all out.

[RealityBend]

So spoon fed, just a question do you ever think for yourself? Or do you just ask your parents? That was a chain letter that was being passed around through emails claiming that the ACLU (not atheists) wanted to get rid of the crosses in cemeteries. But its absolute christian propaganda. Its all lies, the The American Civil Liberties Union never proposed to remove any crosses.

"The ACLU is not pursuing, nor has it ever pursued, the removal of religious symbols from personal gravestones." (ACLU)

[KillaCamRon360]

There is 1 Atheist that is influincing all of that{The crosses,the ten commandments from the schools,etc.} and since your so for equal "religious rights" why dont you oppose it? and yes,tree swinger i do think for myself,that was a question that i just felt like asking to a "Deist/atheist"

[RealityBend]

Why should we have religion in public schools? Not everyones christian. Public schools should remain neutral religiously for all the non-christians. If you want religion in schools, go to a catholic school. Im all for religious freedom. But i do not want it taught in my science class, and i don't want it to be mandatory to graduate. Go ahead add a christian class, but don't make everyone in the school take it. Im a deist btw, god MAY have created the universe. But i currently don't believe it.

[KillaCamRon360]

Whoa Whoa Whoa,Were not sayin all that,all christians are sayin is let teachers post the Ten Commandments in their classrooms if they want to,dont take the commandments out of the courtrooms and keep the crosses in the cemetaries of the soldiers{That one atheist tried to get all that done,i'm not saying all atheists but it would help if they didnt feed it}thats all,i aint sayin nothin about a bible class at all,thats what the church is for dude

[RealityBend]

Religious freedom is one thing, but people don't want their children being taught a christian biased education such as the ten commandments. Religious figures should be left out of public schools.

The commandments should be left out of the judicial system. As i said, NOT EVERYONE IS CHRISTIAN.

I already showed you that no one was trying to take the crosses out of the cemetarys. Don't you fucking listen? What atheist? It was the ACLU board that was accused but it was all bullshit.

[KillaCamRon360]

NOT EVERYONE IS ATHEIST/DEIST either so why should evolution be taught instead of what this country was known to be founded upon,huh??well lets see i guess that evolutionist should have their way and run this country to hell in a handbasket,then what happens??we de-evolve over millions of years? why dont you people quit trying to force your will on everybody in the country and let them do what they want to religiously

[RealityBend]

"NOT EVERYONE IS ATHEIST/DEIST"

I KNOW EVERYONE IS NOT ATHEIST/DEIST! THATS EXACTLY WHY SCHOOLS AND COURTS SHOULD REMAIN NEUTRAL. LOL

"Why should evolution be taught"

Evolution isn't an opinion. Its a scientific phenomena.

Religion is an opinion, which is why it should be kept out of EVERYTHING BUT YOUR OWN BUSINESS. It shouldn't be taught in schools.

Don't try to say that christianity should be taught in schools and that I'M the one trying to force will on anyone.

[RealityBend]

"instead of what this country was known to be founded upon"

Its so obvious your a spoonfed christian. Did your mommy and daddy tell you that america is a christian country?

Well that is where you are dead wrong my misinformed little friend. Most of the founding fathers were deists and agnostics. They rebelled against the new church of england. I believe it was Franklin that said "Lighthouses are more helpful than churches." The phrase "under god" was added later. Lol your misinformed.

[RealityBend]

Religion is excluded from public schools because not everyone is christian. but even so, why just christianity in schools, by your reasoning we should also be teaching occult, wicca, islam and paganism in schools as well. Sorry Killa, your just another sheep for christianities business interests, believing everything you read in chain letters and your parents. Don't act like you know something, you obviously don't, "KID"