2010 WARNING FOR CONSERVATIVE DEMOCRATS WHO DO NOT SUPPORT THE PUBLIC OPTION

[ncquillen]

I cant believe anyone takes this loser serious.

[asfastasashark1]

Moore is a dumb f%#k. That asshole makes a shit load of money selling his crappy movies and don't give crap to charity like he wants everybody else to do. what a fat Turd.

[dospesentas]

Rest assured, fat cat, limo cruising, millionare Moore has the best health insurance money can buy. He needs it.

Yes, he's the guy who said GM would end up like this, but little did he know it would be his termite union buddies who would eat the foundation out from under GM. HIS crusade was against management.

A poster child for do what I say, not what I do. (the little ball cap really makes this elitist liberal look like a regular guy - but hey he's in show biz)

[thevirtueallliberal]

@dospesentas funny how , if you claim M.M. is all of these things he's not, why he would advocate so strongly against himself (The rich would help finance the uninsured ) to help the poor ? Don't you feel stupid dude haha ?

[dospesentas]

@thevirtueallliberal No, I don't feel stupid - as much as you would like that. The fact is it doesn't matter one way or the other to multi-millionare Moore who will continue to enjoy his gold plated elite health care plan. Don't look for Moore waiting in line with you and the other schmuchks at the 'Public Healthcare Clinic'. Perhaps it is YOU who should feel stupid for being sucked in by Moores act.

[thevirtueallliberal]

@dospesentas you don't know what the hell M.M. has down for the poor . I can assure you he's done a hell of allot more then the talking heads at Fox combined . No, I don't feel stupid because I'm not voting to put Republicans back into office you moron haha .

[xtim357x]

In a free world, another person's well being is not my responsibility. It's as simple as that. I shouldn't have to pay for other's healthcare.

[khasseki]

@xtim357x How ignorant, you can pitch in together for the good of all or fall as individuals, I hope you get ill and get saddled with a $30,000 health bill because your insurance wont bail you out then you will be screaming for universal healthcare, your so dumb you cant see this helps YOU.

[xtim357x]

@khasseki maybe it does help me, but it doesnt matter, you dont own me and you cant force me to pay into something that i dont want to, even if you think its better for everyone.

[MrHarvardstudent]

i love this guy! he says it like it is period.

[dallaskenn]

Introducing New Termonology; "DEMOCON". (Blue Dog Democrats)

[SamMan55]

Yes, I agree with micheal moore.

[dallaskenn]

@SamMan55 Lets try a new term, "Democon".

[pigvomit757575]

Ahh! Michael now you know how it feels to have congress disregard what the public wants - like the Clinton "assault weapons" ban! How about the 1986 Hughes Amendment which banned REAL assault weapons, which Hughes sneaked in at literally the last minute?

It sucks, doesn't it?

[Vince1484]

We do not want universal health care or the public option. Goverment health care is will not be in compitition with private health care. We will all loose our private health care. Health care will all be rationed. People over 60 will get a pain pill and a vitaim because that is all the government will pay for. I case no one has noticed the government is out of money! All this strong government over sight is ruining our counrty. We just need more comitition and tore reform.

[wildboy789789]

the government is not outlawing private healthcare... if heath companies offer lower prices and better quality then the government the they will get more money

government public options spur competition

[trinsic1]

@Vince1484 Dont believe the hype.

[bodryn]

@Vince1484 Vince: First of all, learn to spell before you post. Bad spelling just makes you look dumb. Secondly, we already have some government health care: Medicare, and the Veterans Administration. Are you saying veterans are getting bum health care then? And why do Canadians like their health care?

[l8rthen]

lol. where did moore's wealth come from/

moore asking who do they think they are? lol.

as if people do not care at all where money comes from for nat health care plan.

[bodryn]

@l8rthen Fact is, national health plan would SAVE money. Canadians spend much less than US, and they cover EVERYBODY. Maybe we could learn something from Canada!

[shineurs2]

Socialist= Communist

[bodryn]

@shineurs2 In Communism, man exploits man. In capitalism, it's just the other way around.

[rhibac]

the insurance rates could and will go up regardless of their being competition or not

[rhibac]

the rates will go up if there is no public option

[bodryn]

@rhibac That probably is true.

[Lanceshizzy]

1881: President James A. Garfield (The 20th President of the United States who lasted only 100 Days) states two weeks before he is assassinated,

Whoever controls the volume of money in our country is absolute master of all industry and commerceand when you realize that the entire system is very easily controlled, one way or another, by a few powerful men at the top, you will not have to be told how periods of inflation and depression originate.

[Lanceshizzy]

Fact: health care costs will rise!

Fact: The already suffering Medicare will be shrunk

Fact: Most will be put in the 2nd right care of Medicare.

Fact: There will be government officials between your doctors and you.

[LazyBoy3325]

1. Norway spends less per capita than the US despite having a public universal healthcare and in the us thousands of people die every year from not having health insurance.

4. Really? We have public healthcare in Norway and if we get sick we get to help we need right away, you get it after your health insurance has been approved. There is no "death boards" that determends wheter you get help or not thats just right wing propaganda.

[Lanceshizzy]

Hey, the people pushing this 1000 plus page healthcare bill are some shady motherFrrs. As far as I know they could be working for the same people that pulled bush's strings and are nowing pulling Obamas'. Im glad you enjoy your healthcare system. We also enjoy ours despite what the media would have you believe.

All Americans can receive care if they need it especiallly(not sure if thats correct) if it is an emergency.

[thevirtueallliberal]

It's not correct Lance . If that were true, we wouldn't have 45,000 uninsured people dieing a year from not having any health care insurance .

[Lanceshizzy]

how many people die a year under medicare and medicaid? How many children have autism and mental disabilities, becuase of vaccines full of posions and metals?

The government is not your friend.

I dont want to argue, but I feel like I had to say this stuff.

[sstx44]

@Lanceshizzy did you hear about the lady who took the swine flu vaccine and got a serious nervous system disease? she cant walk or talk or do anything normal anymore. unless she walks backwards. it sounds bogus but it really happened. look it up. she can walk frontwards but she waddles.and when she turns around and walks she can talk again. this is PROOF that our government doesnt care about us. put it this way,do you care about some guy that you have never met getting hurt or sick?

[bodryn]

@sstx44 I've seen that video. She is really messed up. Her working life is over. And when you try to sue a Pharma company, you go up against teams of crack corporate lawyers, and you are lucky to get a pittance out of them.

[trinsic1]

@Lanceshizzy the government is what we make it. its easy to blame it because it doesnt work for us. But the government is run by corporations, we need to take it back. So fix your statment "you are not your friend" because you dont put an effort into making it better (or at least that is what I am reading.)

[Lanceshizzy]

I dont blame anyone. I also try not to create problems

[bodryn]

@Lanceshizzy You could create problems just by being on the wrong side of an issue. We all could get good health care, if only we had the political will.

[sstx44]

@thevirtueallliberal yes, i would like to see the death certificate that says: CAUSE OF DEATH-NO HEALTH INSURANCE. yeah right, americans have the best health care IN THE WORLD! why would we want to change that? you idiots amaze me with how stupid you really are!! at least use a fraction of your brain,dont let it go to waste!

[Lanceshizzy]

I agree americans have the best health care.

[bodryn]

@Lanceshizzy What makes you say that? Have you ever needed health care?

[bodryn]

@sstx44 As I live and breathe, and have been with my wife to many a Canadian clinic or hospital, I am amazed at how many people persist in thinking American health care is the best in the world. How explain then, why American life expectancy is 3 years less than in Canada?

[bldgy]

@bodryn You do realize that there are several factors which affect life expectancy, right? To try to claim life expectancy is a direct indicator of medical care either shows you to be very naive or very dishonest.

[bldgy]

@bodryn Perhaps you should look up what "statistically significant" means if you wish to say something that is "statistically significant" dictates a direct 1 to 1 relationship.

There are so many factors involving life expectancy that trying to claim medical care is a direct indicator either shows you to be dishonest or naive. In reality, medical care is a little fish compared to several other factors.

[bodryn]

@bldgy Wishful thinking on your part. LIfe expectancy may not sound like much but 3 years is a lot, especially since in your case you can't really NAME any other factors. Maybe you can't think of any? By the way, my wife is a dual citizen and she PREFERS Canadian health care by a large margin. She's also an RN, so try and argue that.

[bldgy]

@bodryn Other factors: Diet. Alcohol consumption, cigarette use, stress, drug use, avg sleep per night, etc, etc...

Are you really arguing that one can live an unhealthy lifestyle and medical treatment will make it all better? Get real. Especially when one considers the only thing a doctor can really do is prescribe medication, most of which has it's own negative side effects.

The quality of medical care is just a drop in the bucket. Overall, we live a less healthy lifestyle.

[bodryn]

@bldgy Okay, one point for Canadians. Whatever they're doing, they ought to market it! I have listened to CBC radio out of Winnipeg since I was a kid, and they always sound like maybe 20% smarter on the IQ scale.

[bldgy]

@bodryn Ah, so now Canadians are smarter than Americans? Are you going to call me fat and stupid again? Do you have a legitimate argument to offer?

[bldgy]

@bodryn And, sorry, but there are actual documented cases of people suing the Canadian government over an inability to get needed medical treatment. There are actual, documented cases of people coming to the US to get medical treatment they cannot get in Canada. Your anecdotes do not refute this.

I'm sure if we were arguing about planetary orbits, your wife would also be an astronaut.

[bodryn]

@bldgy Like I said before, I'm sure you can find the odd case to support your point of view. Generally, people needing emergency care can get it. People whose situation is not an emergency may get on a waiting list. Some people don't like to wait and some people have extra insurance that will cover them if they go to the US for treatment. Insult my wife at your peril. Anybody that would do that has no class at all. You must be a total jerk.

[bldgy]

@bodryn When did I insult your wife? I'm merely pointing out that your anecdotes are pointless in an online discussion. They prove nothing. So far, the majority of the people who I have discussed this topic with claim that they or their wife are in the medical profession, have dual citizen ship, and frequent both US and Canadian medical facilities. Sorry, but I'm not buying.

Unfortunately for you, the cases I'm mentioning are the rule, not the exception.

[bldgy]

@thevirtueallliberal It is correct. Hospitals cannot refuse to treat you based on whether or not you have insurance.

No one dies from a lack of insurance. Uninsured people may happen to die from illnesses, but so do insured people.

[bodryn]

@bldgy They may have to "treat" you, but only to stabilize you. People do go bankrupt over huge medical bills. Don't you get that? Do you think it's right for hard working people to suddenly be thrown out of their house because their existing insurance refused to pay? It happens a lot. I know you don't believe it - but also you don't care. There's something very wrong with you.

[bldgy]

@bodryn HAHA! Can['t support your argument, so you try to lie and demonize me.

Reality Check:

They do not have to merely "stabilize" you. They treat you, they try to cure you if possible. They do not merely "stabilize" you and give you the boot.

There are free market solutions to lower medical costs without trampling upon liberty. Why do you not care about that?

And why do you think doctors who go through so much just to enter their profession should have to work for peanuts?

[bodryn]

@bldgy You may not know that many Canadian doctors prefer to work in Canada because the system lets them better treat patients without interference. They get a good salary; and they aren't propagandized by Big Pharma to give patients bad drugs just to get extra kickbacks. Good doctors are concerned about their PATIENTS, not just money.

[bldgy]

@bodryn That is absolute BS. Canada is facing a shortage of doctors because the younger generation of doctors are not willing to work the long hours and sacrifice family and friends for the pay offered.

Further, only a few of years ago a doctor helped his patient sue the government for his patient having to wait over one year to get a painful hip problem corrected. (search George Zeliotis)

As far as your clueless "big pharma" crack: You have no idea how the real world works.

[bodryn]

@bldgy America is the country short of general practitioners because a medical education is so expensive, that if they are to pay back their loans, they need more pay, so they become medical specialists. Thus more and more Americans are unable to afford health care in their own country. I've seen big changes during my lifetime.

[bldgy]

@bodryn Yes, we are experiencing a shortage of general practitioners. As you said, that is because they are becoming => specialists<=. That, however, does not invalidate my statement: Canada is experiencing a shortage of medical professions (all types of doctors) and it is projected to get worse as many doctors are entering retirement age, and there are a shortage of new doctors to fill their place.

[bodryn]

@bldgy My experience is that my wife gets to see a doctor whenever she wants in Canada, whereas when I get health care in the U.S., I often have to see a nurse practitioner or a physician's assistant. That tells me that the scarcity is worse in the US than in Canada. My wife HATES US health care, given the alternative. She is an RN (do you know what that means?) I just want the truth out there.

[bldgy]

@bodryn HAHA! So now your wife is an RN who has dual citizen ship, and you both frequent medical facilities in both countries. Get real...

Meanwhile, the evidence that I have offered is verifiable.

[bodryn]

@bldgy You are such a jerk you would rather call me a liar than to ask how it could happen as I have told you. I stick to the truth, and learned long ago that when you tell the truth, you don't have to remember what lies you have told. Just stick to the truth and you have nothing to worry about. As my wife and I are both US military veterans, I would hope we would command just a bit more respect. She was a 1st Lt in the Army nurse corps. She married a Canadian and became a citizen.

[bldgy]

@bodryn Dude, offer something legitimate and verifiable, or drop it. No one is buying your crap.

The fact of the matter is that I have worked in pharmaceutical manufacturing, I currently work in a lab that verifies the label claims of pharmaceuticals, and my degree is in biotechnology (biochemistry, basically).

You can either now accept that I would likely be more knowledgeable about pharm than your wife, or you can accept that anecdotes make no difference in this discussion.

[bodryn]

@bldgy Reality check: In the US, many people lose their homes after not being able to pay huge medical bills. In Canada, nobody has to worry about that. In the US, they may have to treat you, but afterwards, you may end up homeless, which may be why US has lower life expectancy.

[bldgy]

@bodryn Wait a minute. Earlier you were asserting that they don't have to treat you. Now you are changing your story?

REALITY CHECK: I've already acknowledged a problem exists and stated that there are better ways of solving it. So why do you try to throw the problems in my face as if that negates what I'm saying?

The problem is that we have injected a 3rd party payer into a capitalist market. The solution is to remove the 3rd party payer.

[bldgy]

@bodryn BTW: Why do you think hard working people should be thrown out of their houses because their money was drained by taxes to support the drug addicts and others scamming the system?

Why do you think you are morally superior because you support using the government to take/redistribute other people's money when I simply give freely of my own to charities? Why do you think you are morally superior because you want to see taxes that line bureaucrats' pockets while I favor private charity?

[bodryn]

@bldgy Why do you think hard working people should be thrown out of their houses just because health insurance companies have refused to pay what they should have paid? It has caused MANY BANKRUPTCIES! As for that charity deal, there has never yet been a country that could run on charity, you know that! This country serves you in many ways. Yet you keep calling your fair share of taxes YOUR money. Who do you think you are? The laws of this land require taxes! Remember Gordon Kahl!

[bldgy]

@bodryn

1. The unreasonable amount of money taken from me in taxes is MY money. Before speaking of the laws of this land, perhaps you should read the supreme law of the land.

2. For those who are illiterate, I will repeat: There are free market solutions to the problems caused by insurance companies. The actual problem is that they are trying to act as healthcare.

3. This country actually worked quite well on charity. There was no need for government intervention. Check out a history book.

[bodryn]

@bldgy "This country actually worked quite well on charity." HAHAHA what century are you from???

[bodryn]

@bldgy You are a disciple of the free market - but, maybe you don't realize that the free market doesn't exist in the US anymore - it has been taken over by huge corporations - with only a few big corporations, don't you get that competition no longer works? It's called oligarchy. Teddy Roosevelt busted those up, but lately, not so good.

[bldgy]

@bodryn Seriously. Have you not been reading my posts? OF COURSE there is no competition. The government has been stifling small business for quite some time. Regulating industries further is not going to fix this, nor is a government takeover of the industries. Try actually reading my posts.

[bodryn]

@bldgy I have read your posts of course, but they just aren't believable. Small businesses were thriving in the 1950's and 1960's. Mom and Pop groceries were everywhere. Nearly half the people were family farmers yet. But when in 1981 Reagan started on his deregulation kick, that's when big companies started eating up little companies. Ever hear of hostile takeovers? Ever hear of holding companies? Ever hear of Teddy Roosevelt, the "trust-buster"? That's the stuff you need to think on.

[bldgy]

@bodryn Yes, Teddy Roosevelt went around and broke up large companies. He didn't start adding massive regulations, taxes, and fines to all companies which made it impossible for small businesses to compete. Maybe you should consider that...

[bodryn]

@bldgy You know very well that if companies aren't regulated, the people in them, in order to compete, will cut corners.  Humans being humans. You may not like regulations, but they become necessary because there are plenty of people in this world who just don't care about the next guy and will take advantage. And frankly, you come across as just the jerk who might do that.

[bldgy]

@bodryn And frankly, you come across as a jerk who does not bother reading my posts and does not bother looking into issues before you spout off about them. Again, try looking into the actual regulations pharm. companies must

follow.

When you have the FDA fining companies because of ink smudges, it is more than a bit ridiculous. The fact that you believe such things help small companies is beyond me...

[sstx44]

@Lanceshizzy yes its true, most liberal assholes think that socialism and communism is ok if its in small amounts. kind of like the idiot liberal who posted this video. they believe in government runned healthcare. they believe that the everyday citizen does not matter. they want full government control and the want to be in charge of every aspect of your life. they want democrats to rule the world. and its just so funny. they cant even handle anything now,and they want to take over.HAHAHAHAH!

[trinsic1]

@sstx44 You sound just like fox news, do you know you are allowing your thoughts to be manipulated? You should do some research on what your are saying. Socialism is not something that is bad, is a system that works for the people instead of against it. Our system of government works for special interests at the expense of the American people. Take a look around you. Please for the love of god.

[Lanceshizzy]

Socialism has good intentions but, putting that much power into the hands of a few people :S

[bodryn]

@sstx44 Eek! Better get rid of that socialist FBI and those socialist state troopers! And those socialist state colleges and those socialist employment offices. Especially those socialist state highway departments. I guess we should all build are own private highways,eh? HAHAHA.

[bldgy]

@bodryn Perhaps you would benefit from taking a course in economics? Even if just a crash course...

You obviously need it if you think highways and medical care are comparable economically...

As for the FBI and State Troopers: THEY ARE GOVERNMENT BY DEFINITION. They enforce GOVERNMENT laws and regulations. Hate to break it to you, but they are not responsible for our safety, our well-being, or generally responsible for us in any way, shape, or form. Just ask the courts.

[bodryn]

@bldgy FYI: I have taken a year of economics, and aced it. The fat cats, of course, always seek to deny some people dignity by quoting economic "truths". But you know, don't you, that take any 10 economists, and they'll all disagree on solutions. Except maybe GOP bosses, who try to tell the common folks about "real" economics. And by the way, Canada businesses do better than in US because they don't have to fund health care.

[bldgy]

@bodryn

1. Canada is not the US. It is not even remotely comparable.

2. Canadian healthcare IS experiencing a plethora of problems and people are coming to the US to get treatment they cannot get in Canada.

3. If you had actually studied economics, you would not have attempted to equate roads and highways to hospitals and doctors. Capitalism requires competition, and you can only build so many roads leading to or from any place...

[bodryn]

@bldgy You are so fixed in your crazy beliefs that nothing can get through to you. This is a sign of having been brainwashed. (Not only that, but you say I lied about economics.) Many Canadians will tell you you're wrong. You always say people are coming to US to get care they can't get in Canada. There are a few cases of people with lots of money who didn't want to wait their turn, and went to US. But also Canada sometimes pays people to get US treatment.

[bldgy]

@bodryn "A few cases where people with lots of money didn't want to wait their turn."

Is that why Canada recently had to pass a law stating that people couldn't be forced to wait more than (I think) four months for medical treatment? Is that why a Canadian law preventing private practices was overruled in court after a man was forced to suffer a year in excruciating pain while waiting for his turn?

Your right, you won't get through to me. I respond only to facts and you have none.

[bodryn]

@bldgy "you have none" You know both my wife and I have direct experience with Canadian health care, which has served us well, yet you say I have no facts.

The real fact is obvious: You have a closed mind, a closed brain, and can't learn anything anymore, except maybe from your brainmasters: FOX NOOSE, Limbug, the Beckster, and other sources of disinformation. Your picture doesn't inspire confidence either: you look fat and stupid.

[bldgy]

@bodryn HAHA! Anecdotes do not constitute factual information. Sorry. I'm sure if we were arguing science, you'd be a physicist as well... Meanwhile back in the real world, people are suing the Canadian government because they can't get medical treatment. I even gave you a specific case in which someone sued the government AND WON. And your anecdotes refute that? Get real.

Check out "20/20: Sick in America."

I can't help but notice you still have not offered anything remotely factual...

[bodryn]

@bldgy Personal accounts DO function as evidence in a court of law. If you think I am lying about personal experiences, there's nothing more I can do. Some people are so blind, they just can't see. As far as individual cases, sure you can always find a case here or there to support your generalization, but it doesn't stand up over time. I've actually been surprised at how good Canadian health care is, which I've seen 1st hand. I've also lost a small fortune via a crooked American Ins. Co.

[bldgy]

@bodryn YouTube is not a court of law, for those who were not aware.

"If you think I am lying about personal experiences, there's nothing more I can do."

Yes, you can start submitting verifiable evidence rather than anecdotal. Unless, of course, no such evidence exists. Then I agree, there isn't much you can do.

All actual evidence regarding the quality of Canadian healthcare points to the opposite.

[bodryn]

@bldgy Well, I don't see YOU submitting ant verifiable evidence. Moreover, I have been submitting my own personal experience, and that of my wife. FIrst person experience is about as good as it can get. And be honest now - you do NOT have any personal evidence, do you? All you've got is what you've been told. Hearsay just isn't as good. I also told you about life expectancy, you blew it off. You will reject anything I say. You are a waste of my time.

[bldgy]

@bodryn You don't see me submitting verifiable evidence because you haven't been reading my posts. I gave you the name of one of the people suing the Canadian govt. If you followed that, you would see the laws they have had to create to try to "fix" the problems with their healthcare. I directed you towards "20/20: Sick in America" which you can find on Youtube.

[bldgy]

@bodryn Also you could check out:

"NB Doctors refusing to see patients" From the CBC, 2000

"Frustrated foreign doctors leaving Canada for U.S" Canada (dot)com. 2007

"Why is Canada shutting out Doctors?" Reader's Digest. 2004

"Doctor Shortage to worsen, conference told." CBC 2007

"Long waits for healthcare plague Canada." The heartland institute.

I could name more, but I think we all know you will not look at them...

[bldgy]

@bodryn But way to show how juvenile you are by jumping for the Fox News, Limbaugh, etc quips and then... making fun of my appearance in a graphic? Seriously? Are you 12?

HAHA! Is this the very best rebuttal you can offer?

Please, inform everyone how you can derive that I look "stupid" from a graphic that completely lacks facial features... This should be interesting.

[bodryn]

@sstx44 Wrong: It is NOT government takeover - it is SINGLE PAYER - you pay only for insurance coverage. The idea is that every citizen deserves the right to good health - after all, if corporations are going to exploit us for how we can enrich them, and can fire us if we don't perform, maybe at least they ought to help people who get hurt on the job? Crooked insurance companies are no better than Bernie Madoff. I've been through that. ENOUGH ALREADY!

[bodryn]

@Lanceshizzy Hint: paranoia can be treated....

[bodryn]

@LazyBoy3325 Good for you for stating the truth. Canada also has good national health care but the right wing wackos keep claiming it doesn't work. Americans are under a corporate stranglehold, and they have plenty of clueless individuals supporting them. That's what Americans get when subjected to decades of right wing propaganda, so-called "news".

[bodryn]

@LazyBoy3325 Thank you for stating the truth. Sad fact is, in the US, most of the people have been thoroughly brainwashed by the right wing media. They don't get nearly the quality of life you do in Norway, and yet they think they're in the freest country in the world! They don't bother to follow foreign news sources or they would eventually learn.

[bodryn]

@Lanceshizzy Right now there are insurance companies between my doctor and me. And they keep saying No, they won't pay for stuff.

[bldgy]

@bodryn ... which is caused by insurance companies trying to act as healthcare providers rather than insurance companies. Do you know the difference?

Imagine what it would do to your premiums if car insurance began covering oil changes and gasoline. Guess what: Accident coverage would have to be paired back because most people wouldn't demand it, and the cost of everything would go up.

Again: There are free market solutions, but people like you aren't interested....

[bodryn]

@bldgy Free market solutions are very difficult in the US, because the giant corporations have eaten up nearly all the smaller businesses.  These same fat cats keep crying free market, free market, while they get corporate welfare tax breaks by threatening to move out of the country. They even get money for moving businesses overseas! You need to get up to speed on what's going on. You're too naive about the US business climate.

[bldgy]

@bodryn So why do you promote endless regulations to prevent the little companies from competing against the larger ones?

Why do you promote legislation that will only allow large corporations to grow ever larger?

Perhaps you are the one who isn't up to speed?

"Free market solutions are very difficult in the US...." BS. Plain and simple.

[bodryn]

@bldgy You have GOP mixed up with Dems. GOP uses legislation to favor the biggest corporations and allow them to eat up the little companies. Surely you must know this. Good regulations are necessary to create a better marketplace for people. How can competition succeed if only 1 or 2 big corporations remain, and the rest are out of business? I've seen this many times over during my life, and lots of good companies were acquired by hostile takeovers. You should see the movie Wall Street.

[bldgy]

@bodryn OK. Back in the real world: When you add regulations to a business, it drives up the cost of doing business. When you begin fining businesses for failure to follow the asinine regulations, it drives the cost of doing business up further.

Now question: Who do YOU think can better eat those costs? A large corporation? Or a small business?

Democrat regulations only serve to hurt small businesses and aid large corporations.

[bodryn]

@bldgy What you call asinine regulations are laws that have to be made because humans do bad things if they can get away with it. Sometimes the most successful businesses are successful because they cut more corners more successfully than others. Democrats are actually trying to help small business, which is the REAL source of wealth and everything in the country. The GOP keeps saying Democrats are anti-business and too many people are fooled by them. By the way, WHY THE MEAN STREAK?

[bldgy]

@bodryn OK then. Ever used a ball-point pen? Ever noticed how every now and then the ink builds up a small glob which eventually comes off on the paperwork? If you haven't worked in a cGMP compliant industry, you probably haven't, but go ahead and try it out.

Then, you'll be kind enough to explain how the FDA fining pharmaceutical businesses because of those ink smudges on the paperwork keeps them honest, right?

Or would you agree such a thing is asinine?

[bodryn]

@bldgy The FDA used to work well, unfortunately now it has been loaded up with people favoring Big Pharma. Lots of drugs have been put on the market that have had to be taken off, but not before damaging lots of people. There are lots of examples out there, if you were to research it.

[bldgy]

@bodryn Until you understand how science works, specifically pharmaceutical research, you really should refrain from commenting on the negative effects of medication. It just makes you look clueless.

At the very least, you could take a few moments to look into all the hoops a pharm. co. is required to jump through to get a new drug out, and the number of clinical trials they must conduct.

[bodryn]

@bldgy I know about those chemical trials. If you are involved in that, you may have a lot to answer for. I know that scientists who work for BIg Pharma are pressured to undervalue or HIDE scientific reports that indicate too many dangerous side effects, or otherwise militate against using the drug, and that if they don't toe the company line, they will soon be out of a job. If YOU don't admit this, you are probably a crook yourself. A lot of people know this now.

[bldgy]

@bodryn Oh, I love this. You make an unfounded assertion about a industry you know nothing of, and if I don't agree then I am a crook. Nice try, but no.

If you knew of the documentation requirements that pharm companies have to go through to do absolutely anything, you would know how ridiculously difficult it would be to suppress that kind of info. Even if it were occurring, though, how do you propose to stop it? If they ignore regulation, they ignore regulation. More regs won't stop that...

[bldgy]

@bodryn In a little place I like to call reality: Clinical trials cannot possibly detect every negative aspect of a drug. We simply do not have a good enough understanding of how the chemistry of our body works to be able to predict all negative aspects. Many of which do not even surface during the controlled pre-release of the drug. Unfortunately, negative side effects cannot be accounted for until they actually surface.

[bodryn]

@bldgy So a few deaths here and there, okay with you, eh? Most pharmaceuticals these days are put on the market with INSUFFICIENT clinical trials; the companies take chances and thus innocent citizens end up as part of the study themselves. Companies can safely do this because if caught they'll probably get a slap on the wrist. Thanks to deregulation and "tort reform" laws in at least 43 states. If you don't believe me, ask Norman Goldman on his radio pgm. You'll learn.

[bldgy]

@bodryn And how many centuries would you like them to conduct clinical trials before they can release a new product? They already approach a quarter of a century of development...

BTW: Clinical trials involve people as test subjects too. At some point we have to accept that if we want access to medication, we have to take some risk and it is up to the INDIVIDUAL to determine whether or not that risk is for them. Do you know what an individual is?

[bldgy]

@bodryn This is the problem I have with you people. You assert that the regulations are reasonable to those who actually know better (like me), even though you've never once bothered to look at what it means to be regulated by the FDA. You've never bothered once to learn about it, you just spout off that it's all "reasonable."

And it's humorous after asserting right from the start that 'something was wrong with" me and telling me I look "fat and stupid" that you claim I've got a mean streak.

[bodryn]

@bldgy You are calling me "you people". This shows that you think of me as one of a group of people you oppose politically. Have you ever heard of an INDIVIDUAL? Probably not. As for the FDA, it is not doing the job it was meant to do. And with Big Pharma out for more and more profits, and putting dangerous, and not fully tested pharmaceuticals out there, something needs to be done. They can't police themselves. I KNOW A LOT ABOUT THIS, so be careful what you claim here.

[bldgy]

@bodryn I call you "you people" because I've had this exact same discussion with people making the exact same false, anecdotal arguments you are. People, just like you, don't bother looking into the facts before spouting off.

And for those keeping record, the FDA is a government agency. How is the government taking over this industry going to cure a problem that even you believe the government is partly responsible for? Or did you not think of that?

[bodryn]

@bldgy Do you remember Dubya? He was "Pres" for 8 years. He made sure that lots of Big Pharma folks got put in there: the old fox guarding the chicken coop story. And don't you remember Defense Secy Rumsfeld? He had been a CEO in Big Pharma! You're the one who needs to get honest here. With Repugs blocking so many replacements, almost half the positions haven't even been filled yet! And by the way, military troops were forced to take injections for anthrax that I can tell you about.

[bodryn]

@bodryn If you read a book by Gary Matsumoto called Vaccine A, you will find that there is evidence that the anthrax vaccine forced upon American military troops has caused autoimmune disorders in many troops. As evidence, usually Lupus occurs mostly in women, but after Desert Storm, many male veterans have come down with that. The Pentagon still denies this, but there you go: there are crooks in government.

[bldgy]

@bodryn So why do you want the government to also be in charge of our medical care? You just pointed out they cannot even be trusted with the medical care of our troops.

Regarding the presence of the side-effect, again one must understand how such sciences work. Until a side affect presents itself, it cannot be accounted for. Pharm companies are required to list all known side effects so people can make informed decisions. We don't need a nanny state deciding for us what meds we should/n't take

[bldgy]

@bodryn Oh boy. Here we go with the brainless republicans vs democrat crap.

So Rumsfeld was from big pharma. So what? Are you suggesting absolutely no one with a background in pharmaceuticals should be allowed into a government position? What other professions should be block from participating in our government system? Should we take away their right to vote as well?

[bldgy]

@bodryn You'll also be so kind as to explain how putting hefty regulations, fines, and taxation to support the enforcement of those regulations "helps" smaller businesses get off the ground, right? Or do you wish us all to just believe that the smaller businesses can shoulder the weight of extensive, largely asinine government regulation better than larger businesses?

[bodryn]

@bldgy Maybe in many cases, (as they do in some foreign countries) there ought to be CRIMINAL PENALTIES where people's lives have been put in danger. There has been a program called "White Coat, Black Heart" detailing many aspects about serious problems in health care, including pharmaceuticals. If you, and all other businessmen were perfectly honest and honorable human beings, deregulation might work. Take city building codes: you have to meet code, or no go. Get it?

[bldgy]

@bodryn Unlike the angels running our government. Oh wait, they are people to. So how can they be trusted? How are they incorruptible. The consumer has more direct control over a company than voters do over the government. All we have to do is stop spending our money on their products. We can't simply stop paying the government...

[bodryn]

@bldgy Consumers don't have much power in a system where there is little or no competition, where there is price fixing, etc., etc. You know very well that companies come up with stuff they think will sell, and once they make it, they spend a LOT of money marketing it. And Big Pharma sometimes recycles drugs from the past and markets them as cures for some other newly discovered disease. Better than throwing it away, I guess they think.

[bldgy]

@bodryn Maybe we should just ban advertising altogether? Afterall, every company who advertises is just wasting money, according to you.

How dare pharma companies try to get their money back from 15+ years of research on a new medication in which not a dime of revenue is generated!

Or maybe you could actually look into issues before spouting off about them.

[bldgy]

@bodryn "You have to meet a code, or no go. Get it?"

Yes. I get that you have no clue what you are talking about in regards to developing new medicaitons.

Unfortunately, in the real world: Developing a new medication is not as cut and dry a building a new building. While we fully understand what makes a structure sound/unsound, we do not fully understand exactly what effects a given medication will have on a human until it is tested. It is unfortunate, but it is inescapable.

[bodryn]

@bldgy I think people would be better off if Big Pharma would just go out of business entirely. When they started allowing advertising of prescription medicines, Big Pharma started choosing big profits over effective treatments. Many tried and true treatments are still best, but Big Pharma keeps making new stuff even though a lot of the new pills have dangerous side effects. Also check out the connection between Big Pharma and "germ" warfare.

[bldgy]

@bodryn HAHA! WIthout big pharma:

1. We would have no medications. Your buddies in the government have seen to that. Small businesses cannot operate under their regulations.

2. We would have no medical advancement whatsoever.

3. If you don't like the new medications being offered, don't purchase them. You have no business controlling what other people do.

4. New medications are necessary (in some instances) because some pathogenic bacteria are immune which causes them to become more prevalent.

[IWashMyOwnBrain]

The dems are in and Michael Moore is still mad lol its all he knows

[sunglasses20]

RE.dollaresque-Let me see if I understand you correctly,Michael Moore wants to destroy capitalism because people like me can't learn how to spell the word rich? I also see where you think you are some type of mind reader and study peoples brains.See if you can guess what i'm thinking.Take your opinion and shove it up your_ _ _ .Just a little hint it starts with A !

[sunglasses20]

RE.Wake Up- What a dunce you are you don't know crap about what you are saying,people like Moore can't even do the things that he dose out side of a Capitalistic society with the freedoms we have.You want to live like a socialest go visit Hugo Chaves he loves idolizers until you made that trip keep your stupid Socialist mouth shut we don't need your kind in our country.

[Johntkr]

The fact is that last November the people spoke through votes and put Democrats as the majority in Congress and the White House, in part, to have healthcare for all. If we don't get healthcare for all then we don't have Democracy. We just have paid off politicians that exact an oligarchy, which is a form of dictatorship. Democracy should matter more than issues with Moore.

[sunglasses20]

This guy is a comunist . He wouldn't have the money he has without capitalism now he wants to destroy it because he's ritch.

[WakeUpRiseAbove]

sunglasses20: it could not be more obvious that you extract your little knowledge from Fox news.

In truth, the small amount of Democracy that still exists in this nation (ie- freedom of speech) is the reason for Michael Moore's wealth. Not Capitalism.

WORD OF ADVICE: Educating yourself does not come from sitting on your couch and believing everything the media tells you. It comes from your own willingness to explore the truth.

[dollaresque]

No, I think he wants to destroy capitalism because people like you can't learn how to even spell word "rich" let alone become rich in this system.

I think capitalism and democracy are still compatible, but only with strong government oversight over certain industries which would destroy the middle class and push more people into poverty. Anyone who understands capitalism understands the role of the central government and representative democracy. It's about time we focus our energies.

[WhiteStarWoman]

Wow, the Insurance Co's are laughing at all of us! Has anyone stopped to look at all of the Lobbyist money that's been given to our Congress? Do you know that there are 44 lobbyists for every congressman and they pay an average $670,000 per year for each Rep.? Talk about a racket? and this is the country our soldiers die for?

[BobbyPuun]

Go MM. Those Con-Dems are not true Democrats. Vote them out !!!

[MrSTANDFORAMERICA]

The Dem's have proven they can't even balance their own checkbooks, much less run a nation.

Dem's are like a bunch of blondes with a check book, "WHAT DO YOU MEAN I DON'T HAVE ANY MORE MONEY, HELL I STILL HAVE ALOT OF CHECKS LEFT".

[hotdogwell]

Stands for what ?Are you really that fucken stupid ?Bush and the Republicans gave Obama this mess .We are doing alot better now than we did under Bush and your corrupt party .

[shopwreckin]

Progressives nowadays are way too lazy (to which I'm guilty of too). We have to wake up to the reality that President Obama is no doubt a good man, but he's stuck in the political illusion of bipartisanship. He has to carry himself center-left to politically survive. We have to get rid of the Blue Dog Dems. It's the only way.

[AnomicHumanist]

What EVERY other western democracy has! Its a no brainer. I am beyond bemused by the opposition to this.

[hollywoodartchick]

Why be bemused? The powerful insurance companies have loads of money to construct arguments that make it seem like the right to die of poverty is some form of freedom and patriotism. They can pay for people to infiltrate all public thought forums with their arguments, bus people to town hall meetings, and repeat in the "news" every statement made in their favor and silence all opposition or depict them as fools. Americans are not trained to see such underhanded maneuvering for what it is.

[MrSTANDFORAMERICA]

You and Michael Moore are both right. We do need to get rid of all these Blue Dog Dems. And put in to Rep's that are for the people and for liars like Obama and a Michael Moore.

Rep's that are fro the hard working American's and not all those that want a welfare state. Where ever American has the right to make million just like Michael Moore. why should he be part of the 1% of the rich. And the rest of America be on welfare.

Michael Moore is on the side of the rich, blind dumb ass people.

[shopwreckin]

as an american, you'll get no argument from me about michael moore. he's a propagandist just like rush limbaugh but i listen to both with an open mind. i disagree with their tone but hidden in all of the bluster are bits of substance. those glimpses of compromise are what shape my worldview. i agree that there should be less gov't but i also believe that gov't should provide and protect essential rights. you and i may differ on those rights but i'll defend your right to voice those differences.

[Skyman46]

Anti American MORON...

[MrSTANDFORAMERICA]

Skyman46 so you think making all of America a welfare state is more American.

Wrong MORON, wrong....

[hotdogwell]

You mean "welfare" country you right wing dumb ass , LOL .That we are not .We much better under Obama than Bush .This is about fixing a broken system .Which is what us libs intend to do .

[MrSTANDFORAMERICA]

Look as I have said many of times. There are millions of us American's that are more than willing to lay our lifes on the line to keep your communist bullshit out of America.

Now the question is, are you more than willing to lay your life on the line to change America to a communist nation?

Michael Moore is more than willing to be as anti-American as making bullshit movies. But the coward will hide when the shit hits the fan. And the battles begains to fight off communism.

[hotdogwell]

The only communist in this country is the far right party.Cheering when we lost the bid for the Olympics, wanting Obama to fail .Will I fight against domestic terrorist such as your self, damn right I will .

[MrSTANDFORAMERICA]

No you communist that want a government controll healthcare,government control of how we raise our kids. Government control over what is taught to our kids. government control over all our rights as Americans.

Yes that's what you stand for, and that's communism.

Not some bullshit Olympics games.

You are willing to die because the Olympics didn't come to Chicago.

Domestic terrorist is anyone that tries to destory the constitution, even Obama.

you want to defend Obama.

[hotdogwell]

No the far right are a bunch of domestic terrorist and communist.Just ask Texas gov. Perry ? He wants to secede from the union .Bush and the Repucks broke all kinds of constitutional laws .Palin husband belongs to a group who hates the U.S., COMMI .Long live Obama, the liberals, and the U.S.A.,LOL !

[AnomicHumanist]

What is Anti American about giving healthcare access to ALL your citizens? Why is it down to being pro or anti American PLEASE PLEASE stop this infantile response. I awear this is the only country on the planet that has people who react this way. This is about HEALTHCARE!!! HEALTHCARE!!! Do you imagine that non Americans are so ignorant and downtrodden thar they don't cherish THEIR individual freedom? Its arrogant and condescending and downright ignorant. I'm sorry its not you in particular

[Skyman46]

It could happen again...people will get out and vote the nutty conservative Dems out...I think Obama could really be hurt by this thing if a decent bill doesn't pass. The independents and liberals are pissed.