I suspect the decretals may even be authentic- because the arguments against them don't convince me- later documents may have quoted them and not vice versa. Even so, the Epistles of Ignatius (Ephesians, Romans, Smyrnaeans, etc.), pretty much establish anything that one would want, and he wrote in the late first century or so. I haven't seen any official church document saying that the PI decretals are forged. The Catholic encyclopedia isn't authoritative but is only an opinion. God bless.
This is a response? Man I hope this guy never tries to defend a client as adefense attorney. The Donation of Constantine and the Isidorina Decretals are frauds period. Now this guys argument is that the RCC went ahead and continued with it's cliams. Text twisting is not a port in the storm. Then he says it's up to the Protestants to prove the Papacy is not legit..What pretzel logic indeed. In other words in court your evidence is found to be fake and then you blame opposing counsel? Fanatic.
@Gideon6640man Interesting comment, considering I have been an apologist for the Catholic Legate for nearly 5 years now--and I've got over 40 live moderated debates under my belt. Yeah..I guess I'm a simply horrendous and unworthy debater. You'd be interested in hearing my debate on this very topic I covered in this video in a few months--in front of a live audience. May GOD's truth continue prevailing, and your hateful comments be eradicated and you learn about the faith CHRIST left us.
@gnrhead And yet you remain in a religion that contradicts scripture and twists passages in them. Hateful? you know it's stiking that RC people talk about love etc..and yet your church is responsible for the darkest age in human history. In the US, England you guys paly the victims etc..and yet ask people in Latin America and you can see the real "love" .I lost count how many time sI have been told the Inquisition, the exterminating of "heretics" like me was G-d's work, ...Anti Semtism love huh?
@Gideon6640man No sir, I remain in a religion that Christ left us--that put Scripture together, under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost and that is the pillar and foundation of the truth! You want to talk about DARKEST ages in history? We can talk about the Protestant blood witch hunts, the Reformation murders, or the scandals all throughout Germany post reformation time. Blood has been shed on ALL sides, by ALL religions. Sins of mere humans does NOT disprove a religion.
@Gideon6640man In fact, that is one of the most elementary mistakes that beginners make. They point to sinful humans, and believe that that disproves a religion. If that were the case, then ALL religions would be false! Let's not forget that the VERY first Protestant himself, Martin Luther, was ANTI SEMITIC and wanted Jews murdered! So much for your forefathers, your religious origins are in Anti Semitism!
@gnrhead We know about Luther so no news there but again he never claimed Papal Infaliability The RCC want's it both ways. They claim to be the true church then when caught doing atrocities it's well others did it too...just like Pope Benedict and his statement about pedophile priests. My religious forefathers are Moses, the prophets and others of the Tenakh and Brit'Hadasha including Yeshua. Do not pretend to know me or my people. The RCC are by far the worst Anti Semites spawing Hitler for one
@Gideon6640man You make no sense. You clearly should study Catholic teaching sir. Whether Luther claimed Papal Infallibility or not makes NO SENSE whatsoever. You're attempting to tie the infallibility of the Pope to impeccability...which makes NO SENSE at all. No religion is free from the stain of sin. That is an absurdity. Before pointing your finger at sinners, you should attempt your best to disprove the faith from it's Doctrines. You wouldn't stand a chance in 30 seconds of cross ex--
@Gideon6640man ..you'd crumble, just like the sinking ship of Protestantism. Your religious forefathers are NOT Moses and various Prophets, because in a fell swoop you deny the existence of key teachings that have been vouchsafed from the very beginning of the Christian Church. You hold a novel, new, fresh brand of Christianity that has arisen recently with new doctrines replacing the ancient ones.
@Gideon6640man My last piece of advice to you would be to learn how to debate and argue in a logical fashion. I can see why this video did not convince you now. You are a polemicist. You have no idea what logical argumentation is. Your methodological standpoint is on pointing out sinners and thinking that can be used as a logical deduction of debunking a faith's doctrines! Absurd and fallacious positions never prove anything, other than that the person has no idea about what he's talking about!
@gnrhead You argue like JW or Mormon. Your churcjh makes claims they say are based on scripture and when exposed they go to man made traditions.I am very logical you are the one caught up in system that keeps you from G-d's grace through Yeshua. You still have not answered why your church is so Anti Semitic or does it matter? Absurd? fallacious? please detail them. You see that is how one argues point by point so you should take your own advice. But then you are not allowed to go to the Bible.
"the anathema applied to ALL kings who violated any canon binding under censure,or allowed it to be violated by others;and this he put in the mouth of pope Hadrian"
this little lie and forgery was then used by Gregory vll and Urban ll against the princes of their own day
the whole papal system of "universal monarchy" as it is has been gradually built up with layers and layers of forgeries and fabrications.The most important of them being the pseudo-Isidore the Gregorian school and Gratian's "Decretum"
Council of Toledo(646) excommunicated the priest who took part in the rebellion against the King and included the King himself in the anathema if he violated this censure.
Agree with the points you make, but I think you're missing a big one.
Many arguments I've heard say that the Donation of Constantine allowed the papacy and the Church to acquire much of its material wealth (land, donations, etc.). The document was used as justification of the Church's power to heads of state and wealthy elites. And so, the material wealth the Church acquired, and the resulting large influence it gained, was based on a fraud.
There is no proof for this and most of the claims off this are utterly fallacious. As such the Church itself didn't tout this as authentic knowing that it in itself was inauthentic till a much later period. Whatever wealth was gained, land, and donations, cannot be attributed to this document in and of itself but to the rising power of the Pontiff that can be traced from even before this document ever surfaced.
I agree there's no proof that the DoC alone allowed the Church to gain material wealth. That's an oversimplified explanation of history.
But, there certainly is proof that it helped. The very document itself demonstrates that intent.
Tthere's documentation of at least 10 popes citing the DoC. Leo IX was the first, in 1054. Urban II used it in 1091 to help gain control of Corsica. Google it.
The DoC dramatically illustrates the rampant "ends justify the means" mentality of the Church.
To argue that the Pope must infallibly declare the Donation of Constantine to be a forgery, is a case of circular reasoning. The Pseudo-Isidorian Decretals and Donation of Constantine created the concept of the modern papacy. In addition, if the primacy was so obvious in the ancient Church, why were these forgeries even created in the first place? The RCC is built on lies and deceptions.
thanks for letting me post here agian! i wont put insutling comments about protestants anymore just the truth :-P thank you sooo sooo much for this video
I suspect the decretals may even be authentic- because the arguments against them don't convince me- later documents may have quoted them and not vice versa. Even so, the Epistles of Ignatius (Ephesians, Romans, Smyrnaeans, etc.), pretty much establish anything that one would want, and he wrote in the late first century or so. I haven't seen any official church document saying that the PI decretals are forged. The Catholic encyclopedia isn't authoritative but is only an opinion. God bless.
shatterknee 1 month ago
Thanks for this informative video.
TheChurchAuthentic 5 months ago
This is a response? Man I hope this guy never tries to defend a client as adefense attorney. The Donation of Constantine and the Isidorina Decretals are frauds period. Now this guys argument is that the RCC went ahead and continued with it's cliams. Text twisting is not a port in the storm. Then he says it's up to the Protestants to prove the Papacy is not legit..What pretzel logic indeed. In other words in court your evidence is found to be fake and then you blame opposing counsel? Fanatic.
Gideon6640man 11 months ago
@Gideon6640man Interesting comment, considering I have been an apologist for the Catholic Legate for nearly 5 years now--and I've got over 40 live moderated debates under my belt. Yeah..I guess I'm a simply horrendous and unworthy debater. You'd be interested in hearing my debate on this very topic I covered in this video in a few months--in front of a live audience. May GOD's truth continue prevailing, and your hateful comments be eradicated and you learn about the faith CHRIST left us.
gnrhead 11 months ago
@gnrhead And yet you remain in a religion that contradicts scripture and twists passages in them. Hateful? you know it's stiking that RC people talk about love etc..and yet your church is responsible for the darkest age in human history. In the US, England you guys paly the victims etc..and yet ask people in Latin America and you can see the real "love" .I lost count how many time sI have been told the Inquisition, the exterminating of "heretics" like me was G-d's work, ...Anti Semtism love huh?
Gideon6640man 11 months ago
@Gideon6640man No sir, I remain in a religion that Christ left us--that put Scripture together, under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost and that is the pillar and foundation of the truth! You want to talk about DARKEST ages in history? We can talk about the Protestant blood witch hunts, the Reformation murders, or the scandals all throughout Germany post reformation time. Blood has been shed on ALL sides, by ALL religions. Sins of mere humans does NOT disprove a religion.
gnrhead 11 months ago
@Gideon6640man In fact, that is one of the most elementary mistakes that beginners make. They point to sinful humans, and believe that that disproves a religion. If that were the case, then ALL religions would be false! Let's not forget that the VERY first Protestant himself, Martin Luther, was ANTI SEMITIC and wanted Jews murdered! So much for your forefathers, your religious origins are in Anti Semitism!
gnrhead 11 months ago
@gnrhead We know about Luther so no news there but again he never claimed Papal Infaliability The RCC want's it both ways. They claim to be the true church then when caught doing atrocities it's well others did it too...just like Pope Benedict and his statement about pedophile priests. My religious forefathers are Moses, the prophets and others of the Tenakh and Brit'Hadasha including Yeshua. Do not pretend to know me or my people. The RCC are by far the worst Anti Semites spawing Hitler for one
Gideon6640man 11 months ago
@Gideon6640man You make no sense. You clearly should study Catholic teaching sir. Whether Luther claimed Papal Infallibility or not makes NO SENSE whatsoever. You're attempting to tie the infallibility of the Pope to impeccability...which makes NO SENSE at all. No religion is free from the stain of sin. That is an absurdity. Before pointing your finger at sinners, you should attempt your best to disprove the faith from it's Doctrines. You wouldn't stand a chance in 30 seconds of cross ex--
gnrhead 11 months ago
@Gideon6640man ..you'd crumble, just like the sinking ship of Protestantism. Your religious forefathers are NOT Moses and various Prophets, because in a fell swoop you deny the existence of key teachings that have been vouchsafed from the very beginning of the Christian Church. You hold a novel, new, fresh brand of Christianity that has arisen recently with new doctrines replacing the ancient ones.
gnrhead 11 months ago
@Gideon6640man My last piece of advice to you would be to learn how to debate and argue in a logical fashion. I can see why this video did not convince you now. You are a polemicist. You have no idea what logical argumentation is. Your methodological standpoint is on pointing out sinners and thinking that can be used as a logical deduction of debunking a faith's doctrines! Absurd and fallacious positions never prove anything, other than that the person has no idea about what he's talking about!
gnrhead 11 months ago
@gnrhead You argue like JW or Mormon. Your churcjh makes claims they say are based on scripture and when exposed they go to man made traditions.I am very logical you are the one caught up in system that keeps you from G-d's grace through Yeshua. You still have not answered why your church is so Anti Semitic or does it matter? Absurd? fallacious? please detail them. You see that is how one argues point by point so you should take your own advice. But then you are not allowed to go to the Bible.
Gideon6640man 11 months ago
cont.
"the anathema applied to ALL kings who violated any canon binding under censure,or allowed it to be violated by others;and this he put in the mouth of pope Hadrian"
this little lie and forgery was then used by Gregory vll and Urban ll against the princes of their own day
martalog121 2 years ago
the whole papal system of "universal monarchy" as it is has been gradually built up with layers and layers of forgeries and fabrications.The most important of them being the pseudo-Isidore the Gregorian school and Gratian's "Decretum"
Council of Toledo(646) excommunicated the priest who took part in the rebellion against the King and included the King himself in the anathema if he violated this censure.
Isidore(200 yrs after ) made the following:
martalog121 2 years ago
catholic encyclopiedia is the bible 2 ya or what
cyndrellian 2 years ago
Agree with the points you make, but I think you're missing a big one.
Many arguments I've heard say that the Donation of Constantine allowed the papacy and the Church to acquire much of its material wealth (land, donations, etc.). The document was used as justification of the Church's power to heads of state and wealthy elites. And so, the material wealth the Church acquired, and the resulting large influence it gained, was based on a fraud.
How would you address that argument?
esper252 2 years ago
There is no proof for this and most of the claims off this are utterly fallacious. As such the Church itself didn't tout this as authentic knowing that it in itself was inauthentic till a much later period. Whatever wealth was gained, land, and donations, cannot be attributed to this document in and of itself but to the rising power of the Pontiff that can be traced from even before this document ever surfaced.
gnrhead 2 years ago
I agree there's no proof that the DoC alone allowed the Church to gain material wealth. That's an oversimplified explanation of history.
But, there certainly is proof that it helped. The very document itself demonstrates that intent.
Tthere's documentation of at least 10 popes citing the DoC. Leo IX was the first, in 1054. Urban II used it in 1091 to help gain control of Corsica. Google it.
The DoC dramatically illustrates the rampant "ends justify the means" mentality of the Church.
esper252 2 years ago
To argue that the Pope must infallibly declare the Donation of Constantine to be a forgery, is a case of circular reasoning. The Pseudo-Isidorian Decretals and Donation of Constantine created the concept of the modern papacy. In addition, if the primacy was so obvious in the ancient Church, why were these forgeries even created in the first place? The RCC is built on lies and deceptions.
Apologist117 2 years ago
put this old argument to rest!
amen brother!
hipster2201 3 years ago
thanks for letting me post here agian! i wont put insutling comments about protestants anymore just the truth :-P thank you sooo sooo much for this video
stinkybonjour 4 years ago
its not worth putting insults of course we need to be better then that.
mgk22 3 years ago