First person: Havana hairdresser's salon solution - 22Feb08

[abdul4107]

Asian sugar babies # lushfmlk.info#

[AREALLADEE]

the  hava to

[redflags123]

Soon we in the USA will have to learn to live like that. In some respects, I'm glad.

The Cubans shaped by the revolution have much to teach us about recycling, about sharing about generosity, about cooperation and about loving.

What a beautiful experiment in social revolution Cuba has turned out to be!

[PauloGVieira]

Well I agree that huge changes will need to be made in the USA if it is to avert an impending financial bankruptcy but the Cuban example is hardly a model.

That said it has a health standard that surpasses its Caribbean neighbours and rivals the USA.

[ComradeMartin]

The Cuban example is the best model. A democratic structure rooted in localized representation, rather than a corporate controlled hierarchy making decisions from a distant "federal" level via their purchased candidates? Talk about setting an example, Cuba is doing it.

[PauloGVieira]

There is just the issue of personal liberty and human rights that needs to be addressed.

[ComradeMartin]

Sure, I hear that a lot from leftists unsure about Cuba, but where are the facts to support it? The worst event most cite is the "Black Spring" of 2003 or so, where 70 or so so-called "dissidents" were arrested and imprisoned. Western media (and Amnesty International) called it a crackdown, but Cuba clarified that all of the prisoners were tried and found guilty of accepting funds from the U.S. government - in effect making them paid foreign agents. They were not held for their beliefs.

[PauloGVieira]

Leading figures of the arts were exiled during the revolution - need I say more!

[ComradeMartin]

None of them were asked to leave; they opposed the revolution and left of their own free will. Many other popular figures stayed and supported it, like Ernest Hemingway. And some even got their start there, like Silvio Rodriguez.

[PauloGVieira]

"They opposed the revolution" - And this is the problem with Cuba, that you are either for the revolution completely or you are against it. I am happy that Cuba's own life standards are much higher than its comparable neighbours but I am not so blind as to accept the 'revolution' with no constructive criticism. It such constructive criticism was allowed I can assure you Cuba would still have its revolution but only a much stronger one.

[ComradeMartin]

My apologies for seeming absolutist. Constructive criticism is welcome and healthy; I suppose the atmosphere created by teemuruskeepaa led me to think you were not making commentary in that tradition. Again, my apologies. But let me say, in Cuba, you would be surprised just how much constructive criticism is very promoted. Just look at Cuba's hip hop scene!

[PauloGVieira]

I would be surprised! Then tell me why the same people are in power despite such popular restlessness! Obviously people want and deservedly expect more.

I love Cuba and have visited it many times but you cant tell me that it encourages liberal constructive criticism. I am not so simplistic as to go on an anti-Castro rant but a new breed of rulers need to come forward.

[ComradeMartin]

People are not popularly opposed to the government; a very loose estimate might put about 10% of the population on that wing (that is, combining the 5000 or so dissidents holding membership in all anti-government groups totalled [by their own estimates] plus the 5-10% of population that refused to and/or defaced their ballots in the last election.)

But even despite some discontent with certain policies, almost everyone agrees Raul and Fidel (among many others) are doing the best they can.

[ComradeMartin]

And as I said, there is much popular constructive criticism, such as we see in every debate in every CDR around the country, expressed in every election, pouring out of the lyrics of Cuban hip hop groups (who the government supports fully in a desire to broaden popular expression of culture.)

I think your sources, whoever they are, paint a much more negative and contained picture of Cuba. But in fact, the opposite is true, and becoming better every day!

[ComradeMartin]

All that said, however, I do agree that the younger generation needs to pick up the responsibility behind keeping the revolution going strong. And it is inspiring to see younger people like Felipe Pérez Roque playing pivotal roles in the Cuban cabinet. I only hope such participation continues to expand.

[PauloGVieira]

Thanks for your posts, your arguments have been solid but constructive criticism must allow for a change in status quo. Hip hop groups are hardly going to allow for a change in authority that is more fitting for Cuba's current challenges.

Having said this I think we both agree on a passion and love for Cuba and do agree that this is the best system for a such a small Caribbean island from the alternatives.

[teemuruskeepaa]

Paulo is not an unsure leftist but a "blind" rightist who hates Castro as much he hates liberals everywhere.

[PauloGVieira]

Dont speak on my behalf - I do not need to fall into your clear-cut black/white categories because you are too feeble to comprehend anything else.

[teemuruskeepaa]

Exactly. No you are even attacking me.

[nickvanzetti]

Help women feel beautiful?? This is sad that Cuban women still think this way. This shows that Cuba is not Communist. Communist women care about more important things then "beauty". there is nothing more beautiful than a woman who knows her Marxism!!!

[teemuruskeepaa]

Yes, individuals are the product of socialization done by other people by norms and values. Castro never understood communism and made a quasi-socialist system, where women are still put into a different class than men. However, the government tried to end the classes and this woman must in the far-right. She is a bourgeois. And Al Jazeera suggests that is a GOOD thing.

[ComradeMartin]

Oh, come on. I'll agree that women not obsessed over personal beauty are more attractive (and tend to be much more progressive thinkers) but to say a hairdresser is right-wing or "anti-Marxist" is just plain silly! Cuba is an amazingly advanced Socialist system far outpacing the achievements of any previous one (for Proletarian democracy is more clearly seen in Cuba than any other "Socialist" state.)

[teemuruskeepaa]

I might believe you if it weren't pounded in the American and western media what a murderous tyranny Cuba is. But I was just being a sociologist. It appears that women live in separate classes than men in Cuba. I assume if it was more progressive than 'proletarian democracy', it would destroy even that form of class based division. Women roles are a sign that the power structure of Cuba is unsocialist.

[ComradeMartin]

Where and how does it appear women are a "seperate class"? Do you know that as of this year's elections, women make up 43 percent of the National Assembly and almost 42 percent of the municipal assemblies? That places Cuba third in the world in percentage of women representatives. By comparison, the U.S. ranks 71st in the world, with only 16 percent of Congress being women! Choosing going to a hairsalon on occasion doesn't mean those women are a "seperate class."

[teemuruskeepaa]

Why then there are similar horizontal segregration in the Cuban culture to women's and men's jobs? That is a sign that the power structure is thoroughly capitalist to the highest position, since people are given different opportunities based on their sex, just like in USA and Finland. Go to school, Martin.

[ComradeMartin]

Can you back up any of your claims with facts? If not, then you're really ignoring the huge achievement Cuba has made in women's rights since the revolution in its government representation. Why are you so blindly anti-Cuba?

[teemuruskeepaa]

I am not anti-Cuba. Not all people who critizise Cuba are blindly against it. My proof is this video. Of course that woman is a bourgeois, owner of capital or means of production, so she is bound to be unlike what the people in power and everybody's socialization prefer. Still because she uses the small chances of starting small businesses the government makes and becomes like this out of an ordinary Cuban citizen, the society must have taught her that women should be hairdressers.

[ComradeMartin]

She owns her own means of production; that makes her non-exploiting and petty Bourgeois (something Lenin said was perfectly acceptable and supportable to exist in Socialism, particularly in its early phases.) Again, hairdressing is no sign of oppression. The revolution only happened 50 years ago; parents are still going to pass down some partly backwards ideals to their kids. But even so, its not spousal abuse; its hairdressing. These are harmless practices that have no bearing on anything.

[teemuruskeepaa]

How can you say that a backwards ideal is harmless and have no bearings on capitalism, if they are backwards just because they are capitalist culture? Don't take my opinion for more than it is.

[ComradeMartin]

It has a bearing on Capitalism, but only insofar that it resembles a cultural product from that system. But it is still harmless because its one of the minor or lesser carryovers from Capitalism. Drug abuse, child neglect, spousal abuse, and hate crimes would be serious or major carryovers. And if Cuba has eradicated those and still has yet to dispense with something so trivial as hairdressers, I'd say it's come a HUGE fucking way!

[PauloGVieira]

Nick you obviously know little about Latin women.

[nickvanzetti]

I'm Married to one! Maybe your right! I'm glad I got a good Communist!

[ComradeMartin]

It would be better if women focused on their minds instead of their clothes - and in time that may happen with the progress of Socialism. But that will happen organically, and we need not worry ourselves over whether women choose to visit a hair salon or not...

[teemuruskeepaa]

Yes, well I'm saying that a characteristic of an community is always based on the character of those who lead it, thus there is an elite in Cuba. Women are still taught they should become hairdressers and there is still an elite who exert an hegemony of influence over the lives of other individuals. That threatens the socialist revolution, because the existence of hierarchy prevents the eradication of capitalist culture, it actually recreates it. That is why these things must be taken account

[ComradeMartin]

My problem with your arguement is that you think because some women become hairdressers, it is thus society that taught them they SHOULD. Rather, it appears to me that society taught her to become a teacher, but that, noting a demand in society, instead opted to become a hairdresser. I'm sure there are male hairdressers in Cuba just the same. And while hairdressing itself is something of a Bourgeois carryover, again, it is a harmless and petty one - one which can disappear on its own with time.

[teemuruskeepaa]

It's not mine, it is a sociological fact that people are socialized into roles. That's why she wouldn't become something else. Hairdressing is common women's occupation in capitalist countries, it is not about fixing your hair but which sex is supposed to do it. Men are always higher in the capitalist hierarchy so they have more consequensal duties. I am saying that there exists the same hierarchy in Cuba than in USA of Finland. Pick a man's occupation and say she could have done it.

[ComradeMartin]

I do wish everything were so simplistic that we could flip a switch and women would realize doing their hair is unnecessary, but its not that simple. It takes time and social evolution with the advance of Socialism, just as cultural values had to evolve and change when Feudalism ended and Capitalism began.

[teemuruskeepaa]

Marx didn't settle for feeling sorry for how things are. I too am trying to turn the attention to the elite of Cuba. The on-going revolution in Cuba needs to face these facts if it wishes to overcome capitalism. I know in Cuba this kind of thinking is possible because of lack openness in the government, and it is just this lack of pluralism of differences which creates all capitalism.

[ComradeMartin]

You speak of this supposed elite, and of a lack of openness, but I cannot see who or what constitutes this elite. Nor do I see anything but a plural, open-minded democratic system. You are right that Marx did not settle for feeling sorry, but Marx also didn't declare the Paris Commune to be un-Communist simply because they attempted to make use of the Parisian state structure!

[teemuruskeepaa]

Yes, I am making a hypothesis. It is not supposed to be proved before we can talk about it. My hypothesis is that a woman hairdresser in Cuba and a observation that the characteristics of a community is always the same the character of the elite combined means that there is an elite in Cuba which socializes people in a bourgeois manner because they aren't socialist at all. Is Cuba led by by non-socialist oligarchs? Obviously. The Cuban revolution needs liberty from those people.

[ComradeMartin]

Again, hypothesis or no hypothesis, I don't see the existance of this oligarchy you speak of, nor do I think Cubans need liberation from them. The PCC doesn't even have special priveledges as "Communist Parties" had in other Socialist states. The PCC isn't even allowed - by law - to endorse any candidate for public office. Fidel, Raul, and a couple other old revolutionaries do still have a lot of pull, but all of their ideas are subject to the people. Its no oligarchy.

[teemuruskeepaa]

I have read Google: "Democracy in Cuba" -thinkquest and I know democracy is even better than in USA. But that's not as interesting as the everyday life, especially if it deprives individuals of personal growth and makes them "look beautiful". Sociology is interested in the obvious common things and that's why Marx critizised the bourgeois. In a socialist country as Cuba I'd say it's daily practice rather to question the roles and habits rather than bless them as temporary

[ComradeMartin]

If only what you posited was realistic.

[teemuruskeepaa]

No, Martin. It is time you stopped acting as if you could correct everyone online about Marx. You're way younger and inexperienced than me and you can't teach me. Besides, yourself needs some teaching in that you are thinking quite cynically when you surrender Marxism as "unrealistic". I also suggest that you read some basic sociological textbooks to see how my thinking is very real in social science.

[ComradeMartin]

Excuse me? You're an arrogant self-aggrandizing asshole. I didn't say shit to you except that I disagreed, and you attempt to pull rank? Take your pompousness and shove it. If you were actually a Marxist, you'd understand the value of being comradely and respectful - a line you've crossed. It would be an insult to Communists everywhere to even address you as "comrade."

[teemuruskeepaa]

Your game is over. I'm not going to accept your make-belief fantasy role of an all-correcting-marx-expert. It's nice to see this showdown at last, it was a long attempt from you to bend me. This time you can't assume any role online, Martin.

[ComradeMartin]

I'm not toting myself as any expert; I just said my peace. It was you who brought expertise in to question, but I claim no mantle of superiority. I merely demonstrated that I do know what I'm talking about, even if I am talking to a douche like you. Hypothesize about that.

[ComradeMartin]

You want to talk about Marxism and sociology? Let's do that. Understanding Marxism, we know that the economic base determines the social superstructure. Cuba has engaged in a socialization of the means of production (and the conversion of enterprises in to workers' cooperatives as well). Thus, the economic base reflects what we call "Socialism," in that the workers, via the state, are empowered with economic control over the means of production.

[ComradeMartin]

As the economic base has changed, it thus logically follows that the social superstructure change also. Considering, however, the rather recent nature of Cuba's Socialist revolution, we expect (from a psycho/sociological standpoint) people to still be somewhat imbued with ideas leftover from Capitalism (such as older gender roles.) Cuba has done much to make the law fit the new Socialist values (such as revising the family code to ensure equality of representation and housework.)

[ComradeMartin]

It follows that, given time, the rapidly changing and evolving social superstructure (spurred in to motion, of course, by that change in the economic base) will eventually destroy all vestiges of Bourgeois gender, racial, or otherwise cultural values in favor of new proletarian ones. Of course Cuba is not perfectly Socialist, but it is the closest any nation has come yet - and therefore a model for the entire world.

[adeart7]

How can you justify marxism when it seems that only capitalist production spurns economic growth? Even communist countries that have not been blockaded (i.e. Russia) had a difficult time maintaining that type of economic structure. It seems that capitalism is the way to go. This is why Raul is opening up the country to capitalist reform.