The Crucifixion Debate-Opening Presentation By Shabir Ally

[shieldsff]

-I dunno if islam has actually existed since Adam, but I don't doubt that it's existed since his son, Cain who is the person who started something like it (read the account of the unaccepted offering to God).

[shieldsff]

A final point I would raise is that the central truth of the original prophets was NOT submission anywhere or that there is a unitary god (for example, both baal & molech were claimed as [names] for god). The central truth is that there is One God and only One True & Living God. It is this God we are commanded to worship. Also, Muhamm. claims that he received his revelations from an angelic being. Can any examples be offered of earlier prophets who received written revelations from angels

[Nazam44]

@shieldsff Yes! Moses! Received the 10 commandments by means of angels. See Galatians 3:19.

[shieldsff]

@Nazam44-thanks for responding- so R U implying that Moses received all his scriptures from angels? Assuming this is true, how come it's not a specifically, named angel (like Gabrielle who supposedly came to Muhamm.) ? As you cite Moses here, do you believe that this God of Moses is the true God of Creation. Since YOU cite Paul in this instance, are you implying that you accept the other writings & teachings of Paul? Do you accept that Jesus & Paul received their scriptures from angels?

[shieldsff]

@Nazam44 - Nazam, sorry, but you still have not established that Moses "received' the ten commandments from angels, .... which would appear to negate Muhammad's claim that he received the Koran from [an] angelic being. Moreover, if he did, in fact, receive the ten commandments from an angel (which I don't believe the Koran itself states), what about the fact, that he (Moses) no where states that he received the reminder of the Torah from [an] angel(s). Please respond. Thanks

[Nazam44]

@shieldsff Did u read Galatian 3:19? I'm sorry you have not shown that Moses did not received the law from angels.

[shieldsff]

OK, let's say that he did; Of course, you are now left with having to accept Paul's other statements in this passage. But put that aside for a moment. Pls answer then:if Moses received the 10 commandments from an angel why does he (or where does he claim) not receive the rest of his revelations from an angel ? It's therefore correct that U are agreeing Moses DOES NOT claim to receive, say, Genesis, Exodus,or the rest of Deut from an angel, right? So how did Moses receive his other revelaions

[agmtahir]

isakbr100 has not fully read the bible like the scholars has studied thoroughlyt. so listen to the logic n rationale presented by Sheikh Shabir Ally n Mr Bart ehrman

[isaakbar100]

If Jesus had not died and come back to life jesus disciples wouldn't have believed him.Muslims open your eyes even Jesus own disciples Believes on his crucifixion.

[isaakbar100]

Islam is not the true path.I was a devout Muslim for many years until Jesus opened my eyes!

[trinidadparaminman]

@isaakbar100 what made you leave Islam?

[takewhole]

@namasteywhat Bart Ehrman is not credible? Hmm a foremost authority on biblical studies who is endorsed by his peers, an expert in his field, such a laughable comment u make, u shud do some more research

[Propaine187]

@namasteywhat

No, the BIBLE's authors are anonymous, LOL. Not the quotes...

[Propaine187]

@namasteywhat

James did nothing of the sort. Christians always use red herrings to divert attention from the issues brought up against the bible. I have DOZENS of quotes form CHRISTIAN SCHOLARS AND HISTORIANS claiming the bible is corrupt/ or has been changed over time. It's authors are for the most part anonymous as well.

[Propaine187]

@namasteywhat

First of all, you really fail at reading comprehension. Go back, and read the post I was RESPONDING TO. You Christians always read out of context. The guy I was responding to brought up BART EHRMAN as a defense for Christianity. I retorted by letting him know BART EHRMAN actually EXPOSED the bible's erroneous nature. Whether or not Bart Ehrman was effective in doing so is besides the point. LEARN TO READ.

[tarek2102]

james give it up u just weaken the christain faith by talking gibirish. islam is not a new religion dummy, islam existed since adam. islam means one who submits to the will of god like all the prophets did even jesus(pbup). mohammed(pbuh) is the final messenger and mercy to to humanity, he taught wtm every profet before him did but at a higher level. god send him cuse of this idea that people is are in a state of loss, every religion in the worl is paganism except islam. 1 GD 1 MES...

[WorldIslamicOrder]

shabir ally wins all debates, the Christians are only interested in debates because they want to speak to their target audience (Christians) in order to keep them interested in Christianity and not dare think of Islam.

[doner6]

Ask these questions. First, is God love and is he the most just? Christians say yes. Ask, If a man is on trial for murder, and during this trial it is found that another is guilty of the crime; is it just for a judge to put to death the innocent man for the sin of murder comitted by the guilty man? The Christian would say no. If this is so how can we say God is love and the most just if puts to death an innocent man for the sins of others! Christianity debunked in less than 10 seconds!

[padangrengas1]

Muslim & Christian, Pls see documentary video at youtube An Old Bible Found in Palestine, searching for the earliest Christian document which was the key to understanding Jesus pbuh original message.

[1a1n1g1e1l1o1]

saw it doesn't show anyhting

[mosharma134]

Jesus is Prophet, preaching to the lost Pharisees and Sadducees of Israel to worship God. He never claimed Godhood, but was created to a deity later by the Church.

The Gnostic Gospels and the Gospel of St. Bernabas were not canonized by the Church because it spread a different message, that is, Jesus not being Divine.

The Trinity was introduced in 325 AD to justify the worship of Jesus as God by saying God is three persons constituting 1 Godhead!

[Emissionary]

Well, whether you believe that the words in the Bible are accurate or not, in the book of John, chapter 10, verse 30, in-which Jesus does say, "I and my Father are one," referring to God as "Father." However, each Member of the Trinity, according to Christianity, have some attributes which the others do not. Omniscience is of the Father, Empathy is of the Son (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit is the Member which does 'speak' to the Believers within the mind of those Believers in this modern world.

[shieldsff]

Jesus does not claim to be merely a prophet, but does claim special relationship and identity with the Father- this was not created by any church, but is what the Apostles and 1st century church leaders taught (we have their writings which match the Bible The Gnostic gospels are 2nd century documents which rejected the teachings of the true Gospel and so they were (and are) rejected. Please offer proof where "the trinity was introduced in 325 AD)- that's false. The Godhead exists in the O/T

[SAMAND33]

@shieldsff My Poor flower Jesus is not God or Son. Your Bible was corrupted in Council of Niceae when corrupted priests took Poul as a deciple, Look in Your Bible(what survives the original moscript). John 5:30, 14:30.

Also if You said Son, Father and Holly spirit you Need in One(according to Poul), then can God be temptated? The answer is no According to James 1:13 but Jesus was temptated by Satan according to Mathew 4:1, 4:8.

[shieldsff]

sadly, sadly my friend, it DOES NOT help your case or argument at all when you cite passages from the new testament. You see, whenever you [try] to cite a passage from the New Testament, no literate or educated person can follow your example of accepting a verse OUT OF CONTEXT. Verses are ALWAYS interpreted in the context of the subject, audience and theme.The other problem which makes all of your assertions invalid & false is that you blindly attempt to selectively cite & accept texts U like

[shieldsff]

@SAMAND33 - You wrongly refer to the council of Nicea which has NOTHING to do with the canonization of scriptures and clearly do not understand the teachings of Paul which were promulgated in Palestine during his lifetime during the 1st century and founding of the Christian church No one, including myself, can make you believe the truth of the Gospels. However, if you insist on trying to argue with Christians about our beliefs, at least study them first so that you do not malign the facts

[SAMAND33]

@shieldsff Can God be Son of human? Can someone be The God of His Mother? Man get rid of the Corruption and come to Islam.

[shieldsff]

friend, please read the Torah and the New Testament. The term "Son" is an "anthropomorphism" simply. It is a means of helping our limited, human minds to grasp the concept and reality of the 'logos' (in the greek). Please read the Gospel of John (the Evangelist). Also, please read Gen chapters 17-18... Where was God ? Is God limited to certain areas of 'non-creation'. Where does in teach in the Koran that God is subject to the laws of time, space or matter? You have many mistaken presumptions

[SAMAND33]

@shieldsff Look here James 1:13 God can not be tempted but according to the Gospel of Mathew 4:1 and 4:8 the devil tries to tempt Jesus. so how do you explain this? Do you thing that the devil can try to Tempt the master who Created him. My friend you are corrupted by the soul of Tarsus who told you Jesus is God. The verses I gave are those that survied from the corruption. Jesus was prophet send by God .

[shieldsff]

@SAMAND33 -so your arguments have no spiritual authority because you do not believe anything you are saying here based on the teachings of the full texts. For example, you conveniently ignore all of the teachings of the Gospel of John, including John Chapter 1.You do not study or know the Bible teachings on the person of the Messiah, including Isa 9:6. You conveniently ignore or do not understand that the word "tempted" has multiple meanings or the implication of 'trying' for the human nature.

[SAMAND33]

@shieldsff look at the video of Documented evidence I put in your channel comments

[shieldsff]

I am sorry, but, again, do you have any intention of addressing the question(s) which I posed to you in the context of Hebrew scriptures which are revelations from the True & Living God ? You want to introduce here your own subjective & limited suppositions,but I am asking you to justify your 'opinions' with the full context of what God reveals about Himself & how we as humans are to be in right relationship with Him.The scriptures asserts there is NO forgiveness of sin w/o blood atonement

[SAMAND33]

@shieldsff The scholars agree the Hebrews was written after christ and the words of God was spoken during the live of christ.Most scholars agree that no body knows the writter of the Hebrews(some writters say is Paul).I sent you massage in your inbox of video link and you will see your Bible is corrupted.

[SAMAND33]

@shieldsff According to Koran God is every where. laws of time space or matter yes God made time space and matter and he is in control. You should learn Arabic Language to understan Koran. The Koran Contain scientific prove accepted by many scientists or University professors.

[shieldsff]

@SAMAND33 - well. then fine-- if you don't have any problem with science or with facts and truth as the scriptures tell us, then please read the Torah and the specific references that I gave you and respond back to my comment then IN CONTEXT after you have read these passages... PLEASE, PLEASE answer my question in the CONTEXT of what the scriptures have written.

[SAMAND33]

@shieldsff Answer my question is Jesus God when we can see James 1:13 which says God Can not be Tempted and when we can see in the Gospel of Mathew 4:1 and 4:8, satan tries to tempt Jesus. how do you see this?

[shieldsff]

brother, I am MORE THAN pleased and able to answer your question regarding James 1:13 (according to the context of Bible teachings & doctrine), however,I would FIRST like you to respond to the point I raised to U concerning Gen 17-18... Again: where was God. You have already stated that in Islam, God is not limited to 'spheres' of His 'non-creation' - do I correctly understand UR position? UR arguments proves it is worthless to cite mere verses when you insist on attacking & rejecting context

[SAMAND33]

@shieldsff Look here look at the video link I sent you in your inbox masseges and You will see documented evidence of ancient writting. This is the Bible that was Revealed to Isa(Jesus), the one you have is the corruption of Saul of Tarsus(Paul).So Look this video and this is not from Islamic source but from Historic source. I have Many books here The latest king James version, Roman Catholic Bible, Russian pravaslavsky bible CONT

[SAMAND33]

@shieldsff Ethiopian Tawhedo Bible, Egyptian Coptic Bible(it does not much differ from that of the Ethiopian), Johovah witness Bible. The longest Bible which have more and more Books is that Ethiopian Bible but does not show any significant even though is more ancient than others. Look the video I sent you, it will teach you who was Jesus that He was a prophet send by God, but not God, not Son. This is a surviving document of ancient scripture so go and watch it.

[BlackJesus1989]

@SAMAND33 Salam Alaykum...Can you send me the video to Ahki

[SAMAND33]

@BlackJesus1989 Yes and watch it. It is in your inbox.

[halaghawani1]

Mashallah, who is bettre in speech than who calls people to Allah and says he is one of the muslims.

[born2leader]

God is not a man nor the son of man..Numbers 23; 19 so why all this fuss

[jcmjelve]

born2leader- The fuss is over those like you and Shabir who don't understand the New Testament. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning." (John1:1). Word=Jesus. Word=God. Conclusion- Jesus=God. Secondly, Jesus even referred to himself as the 'son of Man'. Questions? If you read the N.T., you will come across dozens of spots where the divinity of Jesus outright declared, or hinted at.

[born2leader]

Don,t you christians read yr bible jeusus said the father is greater than I, the father it greater than, I seek not my will but the will of the father, I can my own self do nothing as I hear I judge because I seek not my will.....he thought us to pray;our father( not my father but our father) thy kingdom come(not my kingdom come but thy ) jesus was a man a man a man a man sent to the lost sheep of the house of israel ALONE..God cannot be tempted james 1;13 Jesus was temped mark 1;13

[jcmjelve]

born2misunderstand- You have a poor understanding of the Bible. You've either done superficial readings of it, without comprehending what you are reading, or you are just towing the Muslim apologetics line without turning on your own brain. The problem is you didn't understand the context of what was being said, and did not care to comprehend it when comparing it to other supporting verses. The simplest answer to your comments is this- Jesus limited his divine powers to fulfill prophecy. God+Man

[born2leader]

God (Allah) Is one he is not limited, God doesn,t die, he is the ever living it is one of his major attribute, I was a christian turn muslim, the one trinity is nowere to be found in hte bible so is the word bible, jesus never claimed to be devine but said the father is greater than I, You never read my past comment I see I gave you evidence of Jesus being a man, Read the Quran and you will grapsed knowledg, but types like it seems that: Hearing you hear not,seeing u see not, God is not man

[jcmjelve]

You don't comprehend the Bible verses you have read. You were never a Christian with knowledge of scriptures. The Bible does say there is only one God, and does not say anywhere that God died. You are misunderstanding the Bible if you think it teaches otherwise. The nature of God is a Trinity, and it's not necessary to find that exact word to describe God's nature. Jesus DID claim to be divine in scripture, he just didn't use the words "I am God". He didn't need to. He said it in different ways

[born2leader]

I was a christian...The words of jesus has been corrupted by the apostle paul and historians and the roman empire including contantine....the bible has several contradictions,god is ever living, the all knowing, jesus said no man knows about the hour nott even the son but the father mark 13;32 now if jesus is also the father what a blounder, QURAN 4;171 DON,T SAY TRINITY IT WILL BE BETTER FOR YOUR LORD IS ONE ,all the prophet said God is one jesus came and fufill it saying god is one mark 12;28

[followerofjesus1984]

@born2leader no u were not a christian, never, saying jesus is the father now that shws deceiving nature, he is the son, not the father, ad bible clearly says this from matthew - revelations, AS the the sone (eternal so) he bacame a human and and did not consider himself as equal to God the father, and emptied him selve of his divine progitives, , and in this we understand as a man he didnt know the hour, but as God he did, and he didnt reveal this information

[1a1n1g1e1l1o1]

Jesus humbled himslef!

[123dsj123]

@born2leader The Quran is a 7th century book that continuously defeats itself. Example: A friend is a companion or an associate. He is an ally and a partner. In many cases a friend is one with whom we share common qualities. Quran 10:62 reads, [Behold! verily on the friends of Allah there is no fear.] One wonders if Muslims are the friends of Allah or the three gods mentions in Quran 53:19-20. It reads, [Have you seen Lat, and Uzza, and another, the third (goddess), Manat?]

[loonietoonie0123]

@123dsj123 Lat, Uzza, Manat were names of idols the pagans created. Allah is refuting them and their ideology. Read the verses around it.

[123dsj123]

@loonietoonie0123 You wrote: [Lat, Uzza, Manat were names of idols the pagans created. Allah is refuting them and their ideology. Read the verses around it.] Quran 10:62 reads, [Behold! verily on the friends of Allah there is no fear.] Who are the friends/companions/associates of Allah with whom Allah share common qualities as all friends/companions/associates do?

[loonietoonie0123]

@123dsj123 Auliya(friend) of Allah are the true believers. Consider this verse: James2:23" And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend."

John 15:14 "You are my friends if you do what I command."

The Quran also calls Abraham Khalilullah. (God's Friend)

I hope that helped. Please ask more if it wasn't clear.

[123dsj123]

@loonie A friend is a companion or an associate. He is an ally and a partner. In all cases a friend is one with whom we share common qualities. The idea of a friend/companion/associate of God is not strange in Judaism and Christianity, because God in both religions is a relationship God — a seeking God who enters into His creation to make friends. The idea of a friend/companion/associate of Allah should be strange in Islam, because none partner/companion with Allah.

[loonietoonie0123]

@123dsj123 Allah has no partners/associates. No one can create except Him. No one is worthy of worship except Him. Friends of Allah means the favoured servants in His creation. Abraham was favoured. The true believers are favoured. It does not in anyway mean "along side with Allah governing the universe." Allah is proclaiming His affection for His righteous slaves by calling them His friends. Btw, friend does not necessarily mean companion or associate.

[123dsj123]

@loonietoonie0123 You wrote: [Friends of Allah means the favoured servants in His creation.] A servant is a slave favored or un-favored. A friend is not a servant/slave. A friend is a companion, an associate, a partner — one with whom we share common qualities. You are a damn fool. Try referring to your as friends, [My servants] and see how well they will take that nonsense from you. Quran contradicts itself.

[loonietoonie0123]

@123dsj123 I am not God that my friends would be my servants who worship me. Please look up the definition of a friend before making up your own.

noun. a person attached to another by feelings of affection or personal regard.

Allah is considering His true servants to be His friends. He is showing His affection for the righteous. What dont you get?

[123dsj123]

@loonietoonie0123 You wrote: [Allah has no partners/associates. No one can create except Him.] You are a liar; Allah tells us in Surah 37:124-125 that he is the best of creators. The surahs read, [Behold, he said to his people, "Will ye not fear (Allah)? Will ye call upon Baal and forsake the Best of Creators?] Allah acknowledges that there are other who creates, but he is the best of them — the best of creators (plural). You are a damn liar, and perhaps a damn fool. Quran contradicts itself.

[loonietoonie0123]

@123dsj123 Can a human being be merciful? yes But Allah is the MOST Merciful. Can we be gracious?yes but Allah is MOST Gracious. Can we have knowledge of things? yes but Allah is All-Knowing. Can we create things? yes. example artificial arms for amputees, prosthetic arms. But is it superior to Allah's creation of the arm with the skin, the nerves, the tendons, the muscle? Nope. Hence Allah is the BEST OF CREATORS. No one can match Him. I'm not going to call you names. I forgive you.

[123dsj123]

@loonietoonie0123 You wrote: [(Friend) — noun. a person attached to another by feelings of affection or personal regard.] How is a person attached (joined) to Allah in personal regards and not be one with him in those regards?

[loonietoonie0123]

@123dsj123 We are emotionally attached. Read Quran Chapter 55. It is a chapter where Allah tells us the favours He bestowed upon us and repeatedly asks "Which of the favours of your Lord will you deny?" It is a very emotional chapter to muslims because it shows that Allah gave us everything yet we disobey Him. We love Allah and want to make Him happy. Him calling the true believers His friend is like a badge of honour. This doesn't mean I transfused with God or anything like that.

[123dsj123]

@loonietoonie0123 You gave me a lengthy discussion, but not an answer to my question: How is a person attached (joined) to Allah in personal regards and not be one with him in those regards?

[123dsj123]

@loonietoonie0123 You wrote: [We are emotionally attached (to Allah)]. If you are emotionally attached (connected, joined) to Allah, are you not one or partner with Allah emotionally so that it cannot be said that none is one or partner with Allah?

[loonietoonie0123]

@123dsj123 I quote again. James2:23" And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend."

God is raising the rank of Abraham to that of a friend. God didn't come in the flesh to Abraham and shake his hand and give him a hug nor was Abraham equal to/alongside God in anyway. Same situation is with the Quran.

Friend is a rank. [Continued]

[loonietoonie0123]

@123dsj123 Friend is a rank. There is a sinful believer, a pious believer and there are those whom God of the bible/Allah has favoured to be ranked as "friend(s)" of God/Allah. Like I said, it is a badge of honour to those who exhibit high form of servitude to God such as Abraham. Friends in neither bible or Quran mean or suggest that God has an equal or a colleague. God/Allah is As-Samad (Self-Sufficient)

[123dsj123]

@loonietoonie0123 You wrote: [I quote again. James2:23" And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend."] God, in the Bible, is a relationship God. God advanced Abraham to a very unusual favors and intimacies with Himself — friendship. Should we say the same thing about Allah — advancing Muslims to a very unusual favors and intimacies with himself — friendship?

[loonietoonie0123]

@123dsj123 A relationship God? What does that even mean? In the Quran many times Allah professes His love for the ones who obey Him (Q3:31), (Q5:54). Love, friendship is connected to deeds/level of obedience. I don't know what you mean by "intimacies with Himself". Humans are closer or farther from Allah with respect to their deeds/level of obedience. Like I said, friend is a rank.

[123dsj123]

@loon You wrote: [A relationship God? What does that mean? In the Quran many times Allah professes His love for the ones who obey Him (Q3:31)] True. In fact Allah love is directed only toward the submitters. The Biblical God is a relationship God—a seeking God, a God who searches and saves those who are not submitting or seeking Him. [For God so loved the world (sinners) — John 3:16.] [But God directed his love toward us while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us—Romans 5:8]

[loonietoonie0123]

@123dsj123 Those who are submitters and those who are rejecters of God are not equal in the sight of God. They can never be equal. Bible and Quran both testify to this. As for believers who are sinners; every believer sins and God/Allah loves those who seek forgiveness to come closer to Him. Quran repeats this thousands of times.

[123dsj123]

@loonietoonie0123 Interestingly, of the 99 names given to Allah in the Quran two names are purposely and mysteriously missing: (1) Father and (2) Love. The Biblical God is a Father (Psalm 89:26) and Love — (1st John 4:8 & 16). The Nature and essence of God are love; the will and works of God are primarily love. God, unlike Allah, is love unto Himself (Father, Son, and Spirit) before creation. His love projects toward all His creations, well as Allah love project only toward the submitters.

[loonietoonie0123]

@123dsj123 I would like to correct you mate. One of the 99 names of Allah is Al-Wadud; All-Loving. As for 'Father'. No we do not refer to Allah as a Father. He is Al-Khaaliq; The Creator. Allah mentions love in the Quran many times for those who repent and do righteous deeds. You would err by saying God of the Bible loves all equally; righteous and rejecter of faith. Ex. The Pharoah. God created Hell for such people out of love? Allah calls ALL to Him, but some will reject.

[followerofjesus1984]

@loonietoonie0123 ok his all love does tht extend to non bliever, Christians, jews andso forth, as there areclear passage sayin he doesn't, for examle surah, 2 : 291 n 292, and 9 : 29

[123dsj123]

@loonietoonie0123 Thank you; and may God bless you for not calling me names, and also for forgiving me.

[followerofjesus1984]

@loonietoonie0123 apparently not, allah is not the only creator, have not read ur quran very well especially surah 3 :49 where it tells us Jesy creatd life from a clay bird, so here we see jesus can creat life

[followerofjesus1984]

@followerofjesus1984 jesus created a life of bird

[loonietoonie0123]

@followerofjesus1984

Read carefully bro.

[3:49] As a messenger to the Children of Israel: "I come to you with a sign from your Lord - I create for you from clay the shape of a bird, then I blow into it, and it becomes a live bird by GOD's leave. I restore vision to the blind, heal the leprous, and I revive the dead by GOD's leave. I can tell you what you eat, and what you store in your homes. This should be a proof for you, if you are believers.

[loonietoonie0123]

@followerofjesus1984

Jesus is saying he brought a sign from the Lord. He creates a SHAPE of a bird with clay. And by ALLAH's LEAVE (permission) he is able to show those signs.

I hope that was clear.

[followerofjesus1984]

@loonietoonie0123 i have read and i know it says this, but this not my point, im saying he creates life, and that sets him apart from any other prophet, its not whether allah wills it, cause my lord all he done he done it through the father permission, but this clear cut that Jesus is more specail

[Nazam44]

@followerofjesus1984 Jesus said, I can of my ownself do nothing according to John 5:30. Even in the Quran Jesus does not create out of nothingness but uses pre existing material to create by God's leave. Where as God is the only being who can create something from nothingness with out any helper.

[followerofjesus1984]

@Nazam44 read the rest of the passage from john 5 : 19- 30, its about the unity between the father and Jesus, the reason he cando nothing of him self is cause of the union that exists between them, he is not a rogue deity

it say the son can do nothing by himself, he does only what he sees the father doing, what ever the father does , the son also does.... so incontext Jesus is saying that

[followerofjesus1984]

@followerofjesus1984

cause the father and i are in complete union , he can not do anything that is out of sink with the father

you really need to read the passages carefully and with an honest heart, to see exactally what Jesus is saying and not listen to people who cut up text for their own benifit like zakir niak

[followerofjesus1984]

@followerofjesus1984

and its not the fact that he creates from pre existing materials in the passage of the quran, the fact is that this is an out line to show that he is the creator,

on top of that this text already existed in the gnostics, but where it came from , there view of Jesus was classed as a hearsy cause it said Jesus was never a human just a divine person

[Propaine187]

@followerofjesus1984

By "honest heart" you mean allowing your emotions take precedence over your logic and reasoning. God gave us brains for a reason:

"You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the BRAIN, and you are responsible for USING them." [Quran 17:036]

Qur'an encourages thinking, bible does not.

[followerofjesus1984]

@Propaine187 yes he gave us brains , i agree , and history show Jesus died on the cross, so there for the quran is false

the bible does encourage thinking, my friend, it the most historically accriate book, everything in it has been proven true

[Nazam44]

@followerofjesus1984 How did Judas die?

(a) After he threw the money into the temple he went away and hanged himself (Matthew 27:5)

(b) After he bought the field with the price of his evil deed he fell headlong and burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out (Acts 1:18)

[followerofjesus1984]

@Nazam44 wots the method of judas' death got to do with anything,

plus if u read them bith, it doesnt contradict rather open up more information as to the way it happen, one condences or is abbreviates, and the other elaborates

but essentailly the land was bought with the dirty money, whter one says he bought it or someone else did on his merit, he still bought with his dishonest money

[Nazam44]

@followerofjesus1984 According to the apostle Paul, neither of the above is true. Paul says Jesus appeared to "the twelve" after his resurrection. Mark 14:20 makes it clear that Judas was one of the twelve.

[followerofjesus1984]

@Nazam44 yes he does, but this does not mean that judas was present --- the number twelve would have been a way letting us know that it was the apostles, and not all twelve, just that is how it has always been, he twelve tribes of isreal, the twelve disciple even if one was no longer alive

but i believe that this could also account for he ne disciple to take judas place, whom may have been in the amounst the twelve, see acts one

[Nazam44]

@followerofjesus1984 Why will animal sacrifices be brought back according according to Ezekiel 43:21-25, if Christ died once and for all? Was his sacrifice to small to please God? If not why does God reinstate animal sacrifices?

[followerofjesus1984]

@Nazam44 stop misreading it, there nothing about it being bought bck in the context, this was a animal sacrifice in that tim period

and all the animal sacrifice were not perfect as hey only lated for a set ime, where as Jesus sacrifice is a lasting one, and is the second covenant, which is for all

[Nazam44]

@followerofjesus1984 If you read the chapters before it (i.e. the contexts) you will see the whole section is about the end times including Gog and Magog's defeat. Thereafter the temple will be rebuilt and the sacrificial system of Leviticus will be brought back. This contradicts the Pauline teaching the Christ died once and for all.

[followerofjesus1984]

@Nazam44 yes it talking about the old covenant sacrice renewal, in the time ezekiel existed, not about jesus sacrifice

the thing u have to know, is that the covenant in old testament was one covenant that was carried through all the prophet, and was a sign for what would happen through Christ, only Christs was a last one as he was pure and unblemished

[followerofjesus1984]

@Nazam44 and also there were many different sacifices for different rituals too

[Nazam44]

@followerofjesus1984 Yes there are different sacrificial rituals but the sacrifices in Ezekiel refer to the attainment of sin. This according to the book of Ezekiel will happen after the crucifixion because it will be after the defeat of Gog and Magog and the Messiah will come back to rebuild the temple in Jerusalem. This contradicts the Pauline believe that atonement for sins via animal sacrifices ended with the crucifixion. Please see Ex. 43:21-25.

[followerofjesus1984]

@Nazam44 please see what, there is no exodus forty three

[Nazam44]

@followerofjesus1984 Sorry not Exodus, I meant Ezekiel 43:21-25 is in direct contradiction to what you believe and what Paul taught about Christ.

[followerofjesus1984]

@Nazam44 ermmmm, no, it does not, it actually shows u hav no clue

as i said this was apart of the old covenant, which was a sign of what God was planning to do fro us sinful people through Christ

but anyway, tell me what u draw from the verse in order to arrive at ur conclusions

the point of the passage is that God had returned to isreal after ther there rebellion, and set up a renewal with in the covenant, so it is about that time, but still pointed to the future sacrifice of Christ

[followerofjesus1984]

@Nazam44 and can u please give me te thing u think contradict ---- u say paul the animal sacrifice ended with Christ, where do u find this

and what does it contradict

[Nazam44]

@Nazam44 Sorry I meant Ezekiel 43:21:25

[Propaine187]

@followerofjesus1984

Bro, the bible is the complete opposite. It has many contradictions and errors within its pages. The synoptic gospels have a major problem agreeing with each other and two of the "gospels" are from people not even eye-witness to what happened so they are based off of hearsay. History does NOT prove jesus died on the cross. where is your historical proof he died on the cross? Pontius Pilate's records of criminals who were crucified never mentioned anyone named Jesus

[followerofjesus1984]

@Propaine187 thanks for the concern, cept these so called contraadiction are not real contradiction but misunderstandings on persons part, and tey cant understand what being said

but simply that some thing are dealtin shorthand, other parts are dealt in long hand one only concerntrates on the actual thing in question as does the other, but the ther also high lights part of the event to give more understand

[Propaine187]

@followerofjesus1984

It's common for christians to claim someone "doesnt have the understanding" of the text to make claims about it. It's a failed missionary tactic and it doesn't work anymore. These people have as much [or more] an understanding of the bible as ANYONE. SOME OF THESE PEOPLE I QUOTED ARE BISHOPS AND SCHOLARS. CHRISTIANS!!!

[followerofjesus1984]

@Propaine187 yes it is common but nevertheless true, depending on what they are scolors of, but thats not my dispute, the fact is the bible is one book that many havetried to debunk and never , not one person has done it succesfully

yet the fact that Jesus existed and was crucified, being one of the most attested facts of history,

sotherefre anyone who is trying disprove jesus even exsist , the attempts are in vain

[followerofjesus1984]

@Propaine187 early historians collectively attest it, as well as a lot of todays scholors today like for example bart erhman

[Propaine187]

@followerofjesus1984

dude, bart ehrman agrees the bible is corrupt...LOL

[followerofjesus1984]

@Propaine187 im not bothered about his veiw on the bible, just his veiw on Jesus which he believe he existed and was crucified and that is a fact

as for his veiw on the bible, itsjust a cherry picking system, all tuthfull acounts unlss they matchup he ont except, so when u have different veiws to the leading oint but not actually event, there is somewords that can be used to sum it up one abreviated shorthand in otherwords, which only entails key points,

[followerofjesus1984]

@Propaine187 and the other is elaborated which is long hand and it can take some or all the point and open them up to make known the whole stages of an event

[followerofjesus1984]

@Propaine187 and all his book are the same thing just under a different title

[Propaine187]

@followerofjesus1984

"Misquoting JEsus"...it was a nice read I loved every second of it haha

[Propaine187]

@followerofjesus1984

There isnt the slightest bit of evidence 'jesus' even existed. What about Mark 16: 9-20. Why were those verses omitted from some bibles and left in others?

"We know virtually nothing about the persons who wrote the gospels we call Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John."

-Elaine Pagels, Professor of Religion at Princeton University, (The Gnostic Gospels)

"...outside of the Christian scriptures, we cannot locate him [Jesus] historically within that world."

-Gerald Larue

[followerofjesus1984]

@Propaine187 as for mark sixteen ----- they are based on other biblical passages,

do we need to know anything abo thewriters its not abot them

do we know much about shakespear ----- then this women is not looking hard enoug, as we have forty souces that mention him,of which ten are very early and close to the time, josephus, suetonious, tacitus and even the jewish source of the talmad mentions his death and him

[123dsj123]

@loonietoonie0123 You wrote:[ One of the 99 names of Allah is Al-Wadud; All-Loving.] But you had said that Allah’s love is directed only toward the submitters. How does that work in the case of one who is all-loving?

[123dsj123]

@looni You wrote:[ One of the 99 names of Allah is Al-Wadud; All-Loving.] But you had said that Allah’s love is directed only toward the submitters. How does that work in the case of one who is all-loving?

[RPenta]

@born2leader Thanks for letting us know that insight. 

[JMackeyIII]

Get this it is foundational to Jesus.

Jesus = Every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.

Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word proceeds from the mouth of God.

no christian believes that Jesus died for anything else other then the atonement of sins. there is no other way to view Jesus' death, He died as the second Adam.

[veritaslogos]

well james white is obviously right because his video quality is better

[mustafagtgt]

Great opening...can you upload the rest inshallah

[wisdomuser]

thanks for the upload, can you upload the rest? plz! thank you, may Allah bless you.