Playing Nuclear Favorites: US Congress Favors India

[ajaypatel75]

NPT is bullshit. If something leads to very volatile situation no treaty will stop anyone from using Nukes.

[leonard1102]

you were wrong, not everyone believes that they have to use nuclear weapon for Jesus.

[NPegasus]

As a congressman, he makes a fair argument. However, the real problem is with the NPT itself. NPT is not a gold standard because, for decades, the NPT has been constantly violated by the NPT signatories themselves. The sanctity of the NPT was already jeopardized when the NPT signatories neither reduced existing stockpiles of nukes nor stopped nuke proliferation to rogue states.

I will not be surprised if India signs the NPT/CTBT in next 2-3 years.

[abujahl007]

Rules? Who sets the rules? China is one of the worst proliferators in the world.

[bengu666]

Its very easy 4 u to pontificate, u dont have china and pakis as neighbors!

[ericos87]

hasn't india become a member of the nuclear club. google india jins nuclear club.

[protikmaitra]

Talking about how many billionaires there are is meaningless when you compare that with the population of India. Most distributions tend to be gaussian and it is just an effect of that. With 1/6th of the world's population in India, that is not awesome, rather expected.

For instance, Infosys mentor Narayana Murthy requested the RBI to inflate the Rupee when it rose against the US$. Are you talking about these enterpreneurs? Are they serving the interests of the nation or their own pockets?

[rizzla87]

by your own theory, china should thefore have somewhere near the most billionaires if not the most, however as we know, china is a communist state, and that is not much of a possibibility. however what i was tring to highlight to silverbackman is indias growth for a young nation (which he put quite demeeningly) absolutist governments tend to be dictatorships like pakistan or abolute rules like china, ruling monarchies etc. not to say that democracies cannot be, but the US exhibits this trait mor

[protikmaitra]

The US is a 2-party Presidential system where only the election is democratic, but the governance is not completely democratic. India, UK and many European countries have multi-party parliamentary democracies that can be called true democracy.

India has achieved a lot since independence. However, since we all want India to become better, we must identify the negative sides of our country, not to insult our land, but to rectify the deficiencies that we have within us.

[tonuhot]

utter crap.....time when you could ignore india is over. Bring her inside or everyone has to go out to join her.

Get my point?

[nissanguy123]

all i say is that get a handle on the historical perspective of the issue !

the story should be clear to anyone who does their homework ....

:) peace !!

[jasperduf]

hey man, u sucks!!!.

[samarthdevendra001]

dude those reactors are not for poliferation but for producing electricity for a booming economy......................w­ell if u ppl guaretee an unlimited coal supply at present coal prices without imposng carbon tax on us we will be cool with it. so shut the f### up......

[rizzla87]

@ Silverbackman; I find it rather amusing that in a most eloquent manner, you have managed to say absolutely nothing of any actual intellectual substance. How next will you analogise the Indo-US nuclear deal? .... Maybe you might like to find another redundant comparison of these two nation's people; may I suggest that you start with the fact that we are both Homo sapiens?

However, your time wasting aside; India has never started, yet been forced into 4 wars .....(Continued below)

[silverbackman]

I never said that we aren't homo sapiens. Nor did I say that India shoulders much of the blame at all. Actually India shouldn't exist as a government.....India should be seperated based on linguistic states as it is in Europe.

[rizzla87]

Right, that is even more irrelevant than your previous comments! You believe that India should be divided into 24 parts because of its different state languages..haha..maybe you would like to split china into a couple of parts for the same reason, or is it the fact that India growing at such an exponential rate that you are worried?

However may i remind you that the national language is Hindi and most of the population can speak or understand it.

India is diverse, that is no reason to divide it.

[silverbackman]

You don't get it do you? The nation known as India never even existed until the 1940sIt was a creation of the British. Before the British "unified" the region of Bharat. India was always one of the richest parts of the world.Now it has some absolutist western form of government that led to stagnation.My suggestion is you take some sociologist classes and understand the decentralization regions do much better than centralized state. Bharat's union is based off cultural unification, not political.

[protikmaitra]

True, we are fragmented, however, we have too much n common and we have to stay together.

"The nation known as India never even existed until the 1940" - not really, India existed as a bigger nation during Chandragupta's reign till Ashoka's death.

[silverbackman]

It wasn't the same India though....the current government of India was formed in the 1940s, and heavily based off the european british model of governance. India should have at least built a government based of one of their old republican systems (and believe me, republics have existed in India before even Greece)!

[protikmaitra]

Completely agree. Republican system did exist even as Kautilya wrote his Arthashashtra.

[rizzla87]

....(carrying on from below), also what makes me laugh is that you think india's government has led to political or economic stagnation... do you live on earth? india has one of the highest economic growths of the world at over 8% annum. more foreign investment than most countries in the world, and now the most millionaires and billionaires in the world are indian. explain to me how this entrpenurial trend and economic boom plus immense progress with the indo-us nuclear deal is 'stagnation'?

[protikmaitra]

"decentralization regions do much better than centralized state" - a clear cut invitation to foreign invaders.

When India was centralised under Chadragupta, even the mighty Greeks respected India. When India became fragmented, we were invaded. I think you should understand history first. Decentralisation will succeed only if there is no external threat, which, unfortunately, India has always faced.

[silverbackman]

I think you should understand history. The Greeks for example fought off the giant invading Persian Empire even as citystates. The Spanish had a much more difficult time conquering the decentralized Mayans than they did the centralized Aztec.Even Alexander of Macedon told how the Indian kingdoms where hard to conquer because"it was a land with no center". That's why he was eventually kicked out before he got that far.So no,centralization is not necessarily ideal,otherwise the world should unite.

[protikmaitra]

The examples you cite are correct, but bizarre.

Even Afghanistan was disorganised and during Soviet Afghan War, 60,000 Russians died and 1.5 million Afghans. True, Russia failed to occupy them, but who lost more people?

USSR occupied so many countries but today, with NATO, they will think twice.

Hence, centralisation is inevitable if we are to remain secure. United we Stand - this proverb exists for some reason. Once we are safe, we can think of economic and cultural progress.

[rizzla87]

good lord you are ignorant, forget me taking sociology classes maybe you should get a reality check! the british did not 'unify' their moto was divide and rule! any way lets not get into that, you are clearly clueless as to the details of the british raj. what i find so propostrous is that youy think india has an absolutist 'regime'...are you just trying to irritate me? there are 24 states each with their own cheif minister and rule system. there is a PM who just went through a trust vote!

[protikmaitra]

The British played divide and rule between Hindus and Muslims. That is why we ended up into "two" countries, India and Pakistan.

But if you study the history of India, you'll see India had many more than just "two" provinces and kings. I don't see how a large number of independent provinces looks more united that post-partition India.

And let us not talk about the trust vote. Even you or I could win a trust vote if we had enough US dollars to bribe MPs.

[protikmaitra]

India is absolutist, whether it irritates you or not. Read the constitution of India. Although we have the Central, State and Concurrent lists, any law passed by the Centre, if in collusion with any law of any state, the Central law will prevail. The Centre can dismiss any State government if and when it wants. This in itself proves that India is absolutist, and I like it that way. India is federal in structure but unitary in character. I don't think we need to waste time arguing over that.

[rizzla87]

....(carrying on from below), also what makes me laugh is that you think india's government has led to political or economic stagnation... do you live on earth? india has one of the highest economic growths of the world at over 8% annum. more foreign investment than most countries in the world, and now the most millionaires and billionaires in the world are indian. explain to me how this entrpenurial trend and economic boom plus immense progress with the indo-us nuclear deal is 'stagnation'?

[protikmaitra]

So you have chosen to highlight the progress of India since liberalisation and deliberately or due to your lack of awareness failed to mention the negative effects.

Since liberalisation, our per capita food consumption has decreased, per capita income (mean) has increased along with income disparity (standard deviation). Farmer suicides have increased. Prices of food grains have increased in spite of increased grain production and limited exports.

[silverbackman]

Yeah I think India should have continued the fight for a free socialist republic instead of moving on the path of capitalism. In fact India should have been the ideal socialist model for all the world to see....now they are giving way to the western materialism. I honestly don't want India to go the way of China in becoming another harbor for american cultural colonialism.

[protikmaitra]

I agree. Although I don't want a single party hard line communist government, we definitely should have a socialist democracy and fine tune our policies so that the benefits of economic growth can reach every nook and corner of the country. Otherwise, this will cause polarisation of the population, an ideal ground for dissent, rebellion and civil-war.

[silverbackman]

I don't get your point here. So having lots of millionaires and billionaires makes India great? Despite the grinding poverty that hundreds of millions live in, something India hasn't been able to change until pretty recently. And economic growth ain't everything, not at all. China has higher economic growth than India and yet it's an oppressive system.I'm not saying India is as bad, it after all is one of the freest countries of Asia. I just hope India won't become another nation of Mcdonalds;).

[protikmaitra]

Drawing parallels to your comment - "India should be seperated based on linguistic states as it is in Europe." - you are saying that UK should be divided into England, Scotland and Wales, or rather London should be divided into independent states because some people there speak Queens English while some speak Cockney! If you don't know what Cockney is, see the movie "My Fair Lady". Don't even talk about dividing India.

[silverbackman]

Europe is separated into separate linguistics states. So should India. Both are regions or subcontinents, and should be treated as such.

Ideally there should be no states at all ;).

[rizzla87]

(contiued from above) ....with two of its neighbouring countries, one [war] of which was much after the development of its nuclear 'deterrent'.

This exception has been made because India has signed the 'no first use' policy and may I remind you, is the world largest democracy. You may be forgiven for not knowing, but India has been dealing with the threat of 'Terror' long before the US knew it existed, and yet they have not invaded nor started war with any of the offending countries.

[protikmaitra]

"long before the US knew" - I beg to differ Sir; USSR entered Afghanistan in 1979. US trained terrorists in Pakistan and Afghanistan to destabilise Afghanistan. USSR withdrew in 1989. These terrorists now turned their attention to Kashmir. Please note, insurgency started in Kashmir in 1989, the year of the Soviet withdrawal. So, it is not true that US did not know about terrorism. US in fact regarded Osama as a freedom fighter, till the day Osama decided to destroy the World Trade Centre in NY.

[rizzla87]

In addition, just for the sake US domestic interested have you so naively forgotten that India is the only power that restricts China's total domination of Asia and the Subcontinent.

[silverbackman]

Indians are phenotypically caucasoid and represent the largest caucasoid population in the world, thanks to thousands of years of civilization. But just because they maybe powerful militarily doesn't mean that they should be allowed to do whatever they want. Perhaps Muslims will destroy the economy of the third largest region: Europe......until Europeans have more kids.

[protikmaitra]

What do you mean by Caucasoid? You mean Caucasian? Oh yes, we are, in part. But so are the Chechens, who are Caucasians, more and purer Caucasian than us Indians. But we also have some Mongolian, Dravidian, Arab, Greek as well as British in us. Well, so what is your point?

[rgz500]

India has never invaded any other country, only defended itself for the past 2000 yrs. Also, the uranium is for civilian purposes only

[BestestMoron]

Up until now, the only inhibiting factor was MONEY.. but with economy developing in India at such a furious rate, money is not going to ba proble... and as far as engineering and scientific skills go, India has no shortage..

Even US Universities r filled with Indian students and Professors.. and thats just 1% of what India has.. so don't be so caught up with US supplying India know how and stuff...

[BestestMoron]

Its time to stop thinking of the world revolving on US policies alone.. You need nations that share your goal and vision of the world as partners.. For so long US has backed the Pakistan bandwagon conspiring against India & the results are clear for everyone to see..

In any case, the deal is on the verge of extinction because the politics in India is against it!!!! So US has approved it, but India an inch away from declining it!!

[BestestMoron]

Lets face it, in the next few decades:

1. India will be bridging the technology gap between the west.

2. Will grow to be world's 3rd largest economy by 2020.

3. Will have enought money and expertize to develop and negotiate with other nations without US support.. much like China today.

4. India has nuclear weopens and will continue to develop more if need arises.

Face it, US and India can be allies or NOT.. either way, India will do what it wants to do.

[justawordaway]

Military project doesn't depend on the nuclear deal. We have enough uranium reserves of our own to make enough nuclear weapon to create total chaos in the south east asia. If that is our goal. Not selling peaceful nuclear tech and fuel to us won't matter. But that it is not the case here.We need the tech and fuel for civilian use not military. If you dun sell it we will strive for energy till 2020 you will lose business but we will still have the bombs.

[justawordaway]

And about the treaty. We never signed the treaty so why mention that. The treaty applies to countries who signed it. We did not so when you talk about trade of nuclear tech and fuel you cannot refer to that treaty. Iran signed the treaty India did not. That is a huge difference when it comes to making bomb.

[justawordaway]

India is researching on technology to use Thorium instead of Uranium as nuclear fuel. By 2020 we will have thorium reactors up and running and we have worlds 2nd largest thorium reserve which can supply our energy needs for next 200 years. And as Garbage101 mentioned we can always buy uranium from Russia and Ukraine. So it is also America's interest to sell us tech and fuel. Else they will lose business cause we will do it anyway cause we need energy badly.

[Garbage101]

What americans do not understand is the fact that India has absolutely no trouble getting nuclear fuel from Russia and Ukraine.

AMERICA WILL LOSE OUT ON A TREMENDOUS TRADE OPPURTUNITY and would not have solved a damn thing (in terms of proliferation).

america also needs a friend in that region as Pakistan looks more unstable by the day.

[MASCDUDE28]

Yes India has not signed the NPT but it is ready to sign the no first use treaty. It has a history of over 5000 yrs of not starting a war first. How do u justify China who has signed the NPT and is illegally helping Pakistan and god knows who with nuclear programmes...Is that making the world a safer place ????????

[atarexia]

ps : i do agree china is the next super power , but remember from now on its gonna be a multipolar wrld. Dont be scared of india becoming a superpower , because i think thats what this rhetoric is all about.

and ednan9 rather than praising china so much think about ur country a bit , get out of this obsession with india , wont help u much.

[atarexia]

i dont care what ppl say about india . i know we can kick ass. at independence ppl gave india 10 years we survived , 60's they gave us 5 years , we hung on , 90's they didnt know us we exploded on the scene . 2000 they knew us , as people who took their jobs for being more intelligent , now they say we will never be a super power , their opinion , let's wait and watch.

[abhi8799]

India with its huge pool of skilled qualified graduates can go alone and develop advanced nuke tec on their own as they have done till now This deal will save india time and will give USA big opertunity for business with India. Anyways Russia is building new generation nuclear power plants for india and france is providing india with nuke powered submarines. Indian scientist are working to crack thorium tec which will enable india to generate an estimated 315000MW of energy

[srizki]

Bush made this deal because he was greeted very warmly there, and that is becuase when he went there indian thought he was their monkey faced god hanuman, bush thought he is being respected.

[turried]

He is absolutely right. This approach of making a nuclear deal with India is another short term gain for the US. In the long run it sets the wrong precedence for countries like Iran and even others who may feel that pursuing nuclear weapons will eventually become accepted just as India's program was. The fact that India nuclearized (for right or wrong reasons is another issue) the Indian sub-continent in the first place is reason enough for US to hold back nuclear cooperation.

[puncru]

u ppl on't get it. India is a democracy just like the states and their are hundreds of thousands of university graduates, who are going over to states and becoming surgeons, scientists and so on. India is also trying to get it's poor poppulation into becoming a strong labour market. america will be buying lot of stuff from india plus a one more firend indeed!

[downmusic1]

what's so great deal about it? U.S. have thousands of them and India a responsible nation and the largest democracy have the right to possess it at any quantities to safeguard its interests.

[just4u1000]

well mayb u would like to move next 2 these facilities , so when a accident does happen, or deliberate u can feel the effects, then mayb u c sence, but i suppose we do have idiots like u on this planet.

[weidong85]

very funny. Maybe you don't the the "real Rules" of nations enough. There is no such thing as a responsible nation, Iriq was once an alien of US, iran was also once an alien of US. There is no such thing as constant friend or enemy. On the other hand, you don't want to see those brown shit rule the world eventually? Those people are just crazy.

[ruban90]

stfu u stupid gooooooook

[sk121]

The reason America made this deal isn't because the US has good relations with India (for decades the US has backed India's arch rival Pakistan), it's simply to stave off India's growing need for oil. China has already started making big multi-million dollar oil deals with Iran, this will mean that oil fields will become more difficult to acquire. The US wants to encourage India to look towards nuclear power as an alternative so to ease the burden.

[tharunnath001]

It is not the oil alone that US backed india for nuclear deal.The hidden agenda is US wants india as a counterweight to china and thus liverage her influence in asia as china is flexing her muscle in the region as US influence is steadily declining in the region.So, they are encouraging india to play a major role in the region as it is a democracy.

[ednan9]

and yes china will supply nuclear fuel to pakistan to balance india....

[incubusslayer]

If china wants to sell nuclear fuel to pakistan, it can kiss its own nuclear programs goodbye. China does not have natural deposits of uranium. It depends on countries like australia itself and selling aussie uranium to pakistan is a horrendous case of nuclear proliferation which china cant afford

[ednan9]

sorry..its the other way around...countries will kiss china ass, because china is the next super power of the world....even in US they realize china is the next super power

[incubusslayer]

ooooo super duer hyper power china. Nobody but chinese and pakis think china is a super power. LOL. Go read your fact before you comment bull shit dirty paki

[ednan9]

i know the facts. I have visited china. Be jealous stupid filthy indian monkey. China is the next super power. YOu are a waste of my time.

[incubusslayer]

and you of mine. get lost indian boot licker.

[MASCDUDE28]

Mate getting your spellings right before getting personal / abusive with any one. INDIA DOESNOT WANT TO BE A SUPERPOWER WE JUST WANT TO BE SELFDEPENDENT PEACEFUL NATION. Thats the biggest difference between India and China.India will be the mind pf the world and china a manufacturing facility

[MASCDUDE28]

Mate get your spellings right before getting personal / abusive with any one. INDIA DOESNOT WANT TO BE A SUPERPOWER WE JUST WANT TO BE SELFDEPENDENT PEACEFUL NATION. Thats the biggest difference between India and China.India will be the mind pf the world and china a manufacturing facility

[olearytimothy]

Nuclear power as an alternative to oil? I don't think so. Oil is a transporation fuel. (OK, it also heats a few homes, including my Mom's.) But basically it's a transportation fuel. Nuclear isn't a transportation fuel. (It may become a transportation fuel if electric-powered vehicles become common.) Bottom line: The United States didn't make the deal to ease India's oil import burden.