@TheTwollocks Ireland did get Marshall Aid, because the Americans didn't want any countries in Europe to go Communist, also Dev said showing sympathy to Hitler was the biggest mistake of his life and speaking of living in the past, you come on here and plenty of other videos starting fights with people who want to learn more about history. Grow up and stop starting sill arguements because you genuinely are racist I have plenty of English friends who I talk to daily, don't give England a bad name
@TheTwollocks Oh and what did my "selective memory" leave out? Everything I said was fact, I've seen your lies already and all you're doing is comin on here and talkin out your ass. Also how am I playin the victim? I never said we were a victim.
@TheTwollocks What do you not get about Neutrality, we took no side, except we helped the British in ways that were actually illegal, we freed British spies into NI but we put German spies in POW camps, same with pilots, we sent Fire Brigades to NI during air raids and we gave out weather reports to the British warning them of possible German raids, If anything we were on the Allied side, we never ever helped the Axis.
The fact that de Valera and the Republic of Ireland did not have the moral courage to fight against one of the most evil individual's the world has ever known will always be an abhorrent and everlasting blight on their record, but at least there were individual Irishmen and women who did fight, and did have the courage to stand up against the pernicious evil that was the Nazi regime, and thank heck for that.
@MrAlban003 Ireland didnt have an army, we didnt have troops and we had literally just gotten the country back a few years before, Irelands population was between 3-4 million because of the massacres and the famine so considering Irish hate for the British back then, even if they tried to muster an army, there would be very few volunteers to fight alongside the Brits.
We may not have fought against 'one of the most evil individuals the world has ever known', but we can console ourselves with the knowledge that we did not count the other most evil individual the world has ever seen as an ally!
@RichardElden If you are hinting at iam from Czech republic,yeah BUT I AGREE WITH THIRD REICH POLICY.Czechoslovakia deserve this for occupation of Sudet-Deutschland and repression against German.And you GREAT,GREAT SHIT BRITAIN,provoked the war.SO FUCK YOU!
Well, for starters, there wouldn't have been a Majority in SE England "Loyal" to germany, like there was/is in NI, loyal to the UK! That's Dev's 1st glaring error.
And, if the claim to NI was the reason for Eire's Neutrality, then why did ne NEVER condemn the Nazis for bombing Belfast, (if it was really part of his Ireland as he claimed!)
And yet, he called the very welcome US troops based in Ulster from '42, "an army of occupation"???
@brother1ray "why did ne NEVER condemn the Nazis for bombing Belfast" - he assisted in putting out the flames allowing for Southern firetrucks to cross the border, his condemnation was evident from this.
"there wouldn't have been a Majority in SE England "Loyal" to germany" - sure he glosses over the part where Germany would introduce plantation and encourage a culture of loyalty and triumphalism into the people for Germany (giving them supreiority over those who would still wish to be English)
Bull, that's not a condemnation at all! He had NO problem condemning the ALLIED US troops in Ulster, but went to his death NEVER having condemned Hitler or even admitting the horrors of the Holocaust! He was a complete hypocrit!
His attempted analogy doesn't work, because he ignores the reality of NI demography and the historical reality of the day!
Oh, and did I mention his Monumental double standards? Even if you can't see them, those without blinkers can't miss them!
@brother1ray 'He had NO problem condemning the ALLIED US troops in Ulster, but went to his death NEVER having condemned Hitler or even admitting the horrors of the Holocaust! He was a complete hypocrit!'
Not when you compare like with like: Eire had a claim on NI and Dev condemned all foreign troops there did he not?
If he had condemned Hitler for war crimes he felt it would have been a 'monumental double standard' not to condemn the Allies for their war crimes also, so he said nothing.
"Eire had a claim on NI and Dev condemned all foreign troops..." ??
Then why did he condemn the US & Canadians quartered there as "an army of occupation" while he said NOTHING against Hitler who fuckin' bombed the heart out of Belfast, and killed more than 1000 People there???
Because he was a fuckin' Hypocrit, just like you!!!
Where exactly were the Allies "Extermination camps" like Belsen & Auschwitz then, eh???
NI was considered Irish territory, so logically there should have only been Irish troops there not US, Canadian or UK. If he had condemned the bombing of Belfast he would also have had to condemn the bombing of German cities, such is the position of the neutral. As it happens, the year before the Belfast Blitz he condemned the invasion of the low countries and Hitler warned him that this was an unneutral act.
Christ almighty, if "NI was considered Irish territory", then LOGICALLY, the Belfast Blitz was a blatant and obvious attack on De Valera's Eire then, since Belfast is in NI, & NI was "considered IRISH TERRITORY!"
What part of that do you not get???
But what did Dev say about it? Sweet FA! That's the gross, BLATANT Hypocrisy!
“In the past, and probably in the present, too, a number of them did not see eye to eye with us politically, but they are our people – we are one and the same people – and their sorrows in the present instance are also our sorrows; and I want to say to them that any help we can give to them in the present time we will give to them whole-heartedly, believing that were the circumstances reversed they would also give us their help whole-heartedly”
Eh? Where is the clear condemnation of the nazi bombing in that??? He don't even mention the Nazis in that at all!
Get your head out of the sand, and admit that Dev was a total hypocrit! When it really mattered, when an enemy actually attacked and killed Northern Irish people, suddenly his claim to NI territory is amazingly forgotten, and it was merely an attack on the UK, not Ireland!!!
@brother1ray First of all you said he said 'Sweet FA'. He did not. 'When it really mattered...suddenly his claim to NI territory is amazingly forgotten...'
In his speech he says 'we are one and the same people'. Sounds like he's remembering the claim to me. It may be to subtle for you but Unionist leaders went mental over it!
According to Dr Ian Anderson OBE, Hitler ordered all gloating propaganda about Belfast to cease, in case Dev woke Irish-America out of its slumber.
@brother1ray So now that we have dealt with your error regarding Dev saying 'Sweet FA', we return to your substantive point . While Dev acknowledged Irish people were bombed in Belfast, he was in no position to do anything about it. If he declared war it would have been illogical for him not to send troops North of the border. People like you would have gone mental. You would have thought you were being invaded by 'pro-Nazi' southerners who refuel U-boats!
Total BS! HE SAID NOTHING TO CONDEMN the Nazis, like he did to condemn the Allies, who didn't kill anyone in NI, unlike the fuckin' Nazis! Capisce???
" it would have been illogical for him not to send troops North of the border." WTF? What is the rationale of that supposed to be? You don't "invade" your fellow Ally's territory unless you are granted Permission to do so, like the US & Canadian troops in NI were by the UK, FFS!
Crawl back under your rock & try inventing another excuse!
'Which was it moron? Was Belfast part of Dev's Ireland or not???' said you.
If Dev was to go to war because of the claim on NI, then why would he have to ask permission to send his troops into his own country? Churchill would have been the one asking permission!!
You are obviously suggesting he declare war because NI was Irish and then act as if NI was still British.
The weird double-think of your argument is laughable!
Fuck off c*nt! Dev claimed NI was Irish territory when the Allies placed forces there, but when Hitler bombed the fuck out of Belfast, suddenly it's UK territory??? Are you fuckin' retarded or what???
I'm not the one with a TOTALLY INCONSISTENT position on NI, YOU ARE!
And that's why, You'll never have a UI, because the People of NI saw just what kind of hypocritical slime, the Freestate/ROI was!
And that's why 84% of NI people wish to remain Brits!
"Christ almighty, if "NI was considered Irish territory", then LOGICALLY, the Belfast Blitz was a blatant and obvious attack on De Valera's Eire then, since Belfast is in NI, & NI was "considered IRISH TERRITORY!"
What part of that do you not get???
But what did Dev say about it? Sweet FA! That's the gross, BLATANT Hypocrisy!
@ brother1ray...its about time you stopped focusing on WWII as if its the only significant period/ conflict in History. DeValera's stance was based on Irish interests and Irish needs, not British.
In fact, such was the inferior size of the Irish Armed Forces, if they had joined in the war effort, it would have only introduced a significantly weak flank on Britain.
Also, the Irish Government secretly aided and abetted the Allied War effort.
Look, I was just pointing out the crass and blatant Hypocrisy of de Valera in this very speech, and that his attempted "hypothetical question" doesn't work, for the reasons given!
I notice, you can't in any way defend or counter those criticisms.
I've long since given up on trying to educate the wilfully blind & blinkered! You just carry on believing de Valera was an honourable leader who accidently lamented the death of Hitler & merely forgot to EVER condemn the Holocaust!
Eire was certainly NOT neutral in WW2. Diplomatically yes, but in the real world De Valera knew he only had one enemy, and that enemy had a moustache. He knew that ultimately irelands independence and freedom was linked to that of the UK and he secretly helped the UK in many ways. Today you can still see the RAF navigation markers on the hills of the west of ireland. He chose to side with a familiar enemy rather than with an alien monster, and history judges him well for it.
THis video is VERY misleading. The FACTS are the Eire and UK collaborated during WW2. We had agreements for mutual defense; if ireland was invaded, UK would sned troops, if UK was invaded the RAF would move to ireland. Casement Aerodrome was agreed to be the main RAF base in Eire, and irish ports were toured by the Royal Navy to evaluate their readiness.. Sites for radar installations were also discussed, as well as aircraft beacons, anti-sub recon, counter-espionage and diplomatic 'probing'.
Not to mention Drogheda's Grendon's Foundry manufactured Mills grenades for the British, of course ordnance filling was done across the sea, but the bodies case was cast here.
I know this because a relative of mine made quite a few thousand, no record of this remains sadly, but I take his word for it. There is probably incidents of other Irish foundry's and industries manufacturing goods for the British war effort, records of such, as you can imagine, are hard to find.
Centuries old ties? What ties? The hangman's noose? England was Ireland's Hitler. England didn't write the book on public relations. With neighbors like England, Ireland didn't need Hitler as an enemy.
@paddycentered Yes I know that the English did some terrible things in Ireland, but to come out with a statement such as "England was Ireland's Hitler" is plainly ridiculous and pretty offensive. You obviously need to do a little more research and gain a sense of perspective.
@tomd2103 alot of what the british did to the irish was very wrong but i don't think you can compare one bad act to another each should be taken in their own right but i still see the point de valera is making. i think he does have a point. the hitler thing is also very different because hitler was taking over non-german land. the irish were trying to get back what was originally theirs.
De Valera put Hitler above the centuries-old ties with its nearest neighbour when
it was facing the gravest threat, forsaking countless Anglo-Irish family ties
steeped in history. It is a wonder that ANYONE understands that mindset! I
won't stoop to exchange insults, since many a better man came out of Ireland to advance the human condition than stayed at home to foment hate. And, thank
heavens, they still emerge, to do credit to their country around the world.
when one considers the threat posed by Hitler and his brainwashed legions,
a man who put a neighbouring country of the foremost defender of world
freedom at that time (allowing for the United States' entry into the conflict after the Battle of Britain) in a "neutral" political position could be thought doing the work
of the devil in the context of those far less secular days. Had Hitler won, what,
I wonder, would have been Ireland's fate in a new dark age?
Your self-satisfying ignorance of Irish history, or if I'm being kind, your lack of sensitivity towards Ireland's history of that period, is so blatant I have no intention wasting my time on another pointless exchange with a crank troll. Suffice to say you have been indentified as the crank troll you are.
@TheFutureadvocate Quite obviously an ignorance of history is another one of your personal achievements, like most micks, you use ignorance and revision instead of truth and fact......the fact that you can flush your shit away is because of the Brits etc,etc.....you are like a mick version of "the peoples front of judea" in Monty Python "what did the Brits ever do for us"? Look out of your window and rejoice in the fact that the reason you are not 3rd world, is because of the Brits!
@TheFutureadvocate The only excrement that is obvious for all to see, is what you write! The fact is, you "people" have an over inflated sense of entitlement, perhaps its through living next door to a giant, perhaps it is petty envy, but the sad fact is, you are a small nation with a small mentality.
@TheFutureadvocate You can find the information yourself old chap, If I, a mere Englishman, inferior to the irish pure bred master race, can find it I am sure you can too.
How many black people are their as a percentage in the ROI, better, how many JEWS? I can tell you but you seem lazy and will demand a link! Because of the pure bred nature of your small country of 4.5 million, you are racist as a country in the extreme.
@TheFutureadvocate Obviously, you cannot handle the truth can you! As one Unionist MP put it, "Can you imagine, we are in committee discussing famine in Zimbabwe, and we get a whinge from the bog about the irish famine" One of the reasons why a selfish little country like Ireland will never be allowed in.
The racisim in the ROI is endemic, you try going into a pub in Limerick with an English accent!
How can Britain civilize India when India has been a civilized countries for 3,000 years?? When Britain herself was in the throes of the Dark Ages??
Infact nothing the Hindus and Muslims have done to one another comes close to what England did to Catholics for all of these years. Infact there is a a law in the books preventing a Catholic member of the Royal family, yet in India, a Muslim can and has become Head of State.
@thedochra put your selective history book away and face the facts. england was forced out of india just like every other country you ever set foot in .think about it england never left any country peacefully only at a point of a gun.there will never be peace in the world until english pepole have been educated and have the balls to stand up to there terrorist gov .Sadly this will never happen as this robotic nation have been programmed to obey there master and live in fear of the bailiff
Infact did you know that DeValera was friend to the cause of Indian Nationalism?? Subash Chandra Bose had great respect for De Valera, and it was De Valera who recognized the Azad Hind government.
@daccord1853 you are wrong yet again. India was divided by the english and the country of pakistan was created to cause conflict between the two .Can you please tell me when your filthy terrorist goverment ever improved the lives of the pepole when you invaded there country .Tell me why do you like having your pants pulled down everyday and shafted by your goverment `but you dislike pepole who stand up against oppression and give there lives for the freedom of there country
@suryavajra thankyou. thisdaccord1853 is not worth anymore replies . the man is a fool who talks out of his arse . I think he has an A+ IN SELECTIVE HISTORY
@daccord1853 Its due to the Brits we speak English because they opressed Irish language and culture. Whats the difference in speaking english or german due to colonisation? both are foreign languages.
@daccord1853 NI has a puppet parliament to make it look like its governed by NI when in reality its governed by an unelected government in England. Britain drew the border in a way to create a false majority.
@daccord1853 pakistan is india was`nt it divided by the british just like kuwait and iraq and palistine/isreal, serbia/kosovo ireland and many other small nations that they think can be bullied .england`s gov has always been a terrorist organisation
@thedochra daccord supported the Nazi invasion of Belgium, Poland and the Czech republic and the British occupation of Ireland he is a facsist scumbag.
@daccord1853 Your basing a country on some peoples religion - thats exacttly what Israel does. I couldnt care less about NI, I have a right to have Ireland goverened by Irish people and not invading powers like Britain
@daccord1853 That must be why the Jews named a forest in his name near Nazareth, dedicated to him for his great treatment of the Jews in Ireland, not to mention giving them special recognition in the constitution.
actually most of the serving officers in the Irish army had no part in the war of independence, most came from Irish units of the British army that had been variously stationed around the world.
@JD1010101110 'most of the serving officers in the Irish Army had no part in the war of independence'...I don't understand this statement. Perhaps you are referring to as my original comment must be very old. I agree, many serving Irish troops in the Free State Army transferred from the British Army. However, some of the most successful IRA leaders in the war of Independence were ex-British Soldiers and First World War veterans. Not sure what comment of mine you are referring to though.
Since the vast majority settled in the UK they evidently did prefer British rule. Though i doubt they would have been a great deal of support for an invasion of ireland in any part of british society.
The UK didn't sell out any allies during the war, and though organisations like the Special Operation Executive a group that took some inspiration from the IRA it supplied and trained resistance all across the world. Also remember that in 1939 the UK was in the middle of a bombing campaign, by the IRA.
No many joined because they felt the Nazis were threat, many recognised that if Britain fell so wound Ireland, and that if Ireland was to remain fed it would be by British convoys. Though very few of those volunteers ever went home because despite Britain's survival being in the Irish best interest they were treated as traitors. Most settled in the UK.
@JD1010101110 This is not the only reason the Irish joined. There was a tradition of joining the British Army in many Irish families, also many Irish were looking for fun and adventure. Few came home, some because of the anti-British bias, but most because there was nothing here for them. One of my great uncles came home because he had a farm to inherit, the other stayed in the UK. The economy of Ireleand post war was also a major factor.
The US actually recruited many ex Nazis not just scientists but SS etc to help them fight the Soviets. Do the Irish truly have a unique set of morals? what sets them apart from their British cousins?
@JD1010101110 No of course we don't have a unique set of morals. The morals in question arose from the fact that someone else had repeatedly use the words SHAME ON IRELAND to consolidate their argument. I thought this was stupid.
They were prisoners of war, and hostilities had ended, thats not harbouring people. The Bombing of a Dresden was necessary it was a major railhead for the wehrmacht and a huge obstacle for the red army, and all efforts to minimise casualities were made, German civilians were warned to leave the cities. If the allies had simply wanted to slaughter everyone they would of gassed it rather than send two bombing raids.
UCD was original a college of London i believe, also the Irish Party is recognised as fore runner of all the political independence movements. Edmund Burke was a protestant and the father of conservatism but he argued strongly for catholic emancipation, the situation is nowhere near as black and white as you draw it.
@JD1010101110 Again I'm not sure what post this is in reference to. UCD was an Irish Catholic university in the beginning. I'm not sure of it being a London college. Give me a source! All politial independence movements? Modern British Conservatives are Unionist. I'm not too sure why this is being brought up.
Actually many neo liberals in the right of the conservative party unencumbered with the longing for tradition that others in there party have would love to get rid of NI and the massive costs it burdens on the exchequer
@JD1010101110 Many nobody politicians who wish to put out populist manifestos claim they don't the north. The democratically elected leader of the party and the democratically elected leader of the United Kingdom made a trip to Belfast in order to show his support for the (laughable) Ulster Unionist Party and in order to establish the "party of the Union." You can take select anecdotal quotes from nobodies badgering on about NI. I'll stick to the statistics (Cameron = pop.) if thats OK with you.
Well FDR would likely have got the US into the War, all it would take is an incident in the north atlantic as he extended the US zone of merchant protection, just as the Luisitania provided Cassus Belli in the first. The Republic did suffer an attack worse than Pearl harbour, the Dublin raid, fire brigades from the north had to attend, just as brigades from the south had done during the Belfast blitz.
@JD1010101110 Dublin raid worse than Pearl Harbour. What are you talking about!? One was an attack on civilians, one severely damaged a war fleet in the Pacific.
Actually FDR was desperate to get into the fight, he recognised the unparalleled threat the nazis posed, pearl harbour just gave him an excellent opportunity.
@JD1010101110 FDR was desperate to sell US arms to Europe to boost the economy. He was only interested in fighting for the "morally right" side when the US was attacked.
No that's entirely false reading of history, FDR sold arms though more things like Boots, trains and tractors to the British at cost, and then let this by repaid in a very generous loan agreements. Mainly because he recognised that if Britain fell it would be nye on impossible to liberate europe, and the safety of the world would be threatened without the Royal Navy holding germany in check.
@JD1010101110 I'm not sure how much it is really. If the USA was so concerned about liberating countries from government threats, how come it did not intervene in Iron Bloc eastern Europe or modern day China, for example. Oh that's right, because the USA did not care until it was attacked.
Because FDR was dead by then, Churchill had wanted to, He even had the general staff draw up a plan, they called it operation unthinkable.
But again another childish and somewhat vitriol interpretation of a incredible complex period of history. Whatever education system you are a product of is in series need of an overhaul.
@JD1010101110 I mentioned the US, not FDR. I've stated the US only intervened in the Second World War when it suited them; they did not have a feeling of moral obligation to help the brave and morally correct Allies against the tyrannic Nazis but rather they chose only to fight the Nazis when they felt their territory was under a real threat. Funny how the US didn't intervene in Eastern Europe despite knowledge of atrocities in Romania and Poland, amongst others, and it also wasn't attacked...
Eh, Nazi Germany made no attack on the USA! If the US entered the War only because of Pearl Harbour, then why did they form such a major part of the Allies force in Liberating Western Europe? Why did they not confine their military fight to Japan and the Pacific?
You miss the point. "only to fight the Nazis when they felt their territory was under a real threat."?
The Nazis never threatened the US! If what you say were true, then the US should only have fought Japan in the Pacific, not Nazis in Europe. And the US had been supporting the UK for years in WW2 before Pearl Harbour, and were planning to enter the War anyway. The Japanese just hastened it!
@DonegalRaymie201 Right but Japan and Germany were allies. After Pearl Harbour, and only after Pearl Harbour, did Germany declare war on the US. Hitler didn't particularly want to make an enemy of the US.
Yes, but they were poor Allies! They fought totally seperate wars & shared little, I'm sure Hitler was pretty pissed at Japan for bringing the US into the War before he was ready. He had been careful to avoid attacks on US ships in the Atlantic by his U-boats.
Incidently, he wasn't so careful or cared little and sunk 16 ships of Neutral Eire in WW2! But then he did plan to invade Eire when he was done with the Brits, so maybe not so surprising?
@DonegalRaymie201 I think it's highly naive of anyone to claim that the US 100% definitely would have entered the war had it not been for the attack on Pearl Harbour. To say anything else is purely speculation.
Japan and Germany shared arms and intelligence. Admittedly, they never really fought together like the US and its European allies but Hitler still felt compelled to declare war on the US after Pearl Harbour. That says something.
I'm not sure that all of Ireland's lost ships were sunk by
@DonegalRaymie201 Germany, I'd have to read further into it however. Germany (or Britain) for that matter would have had no problem invading Ireland if it was seen as absolutely necessary. Sinking a few rusty auld ships would have made little difference to the Irish cause. Don't forget, thousands of Irishmen joined the war effort in both World Wars, long before the US decided to join both wars.
Maybe I misunderstood you. Is your beef that the US had to be forced into WW2 by Japan? That they didn't stand against Nazism until they had to?
I've read various accounts, (admittedly by US writers), that the US were preparing for entry into WW2 before Pearl Harbour, but just when they would have joined is speculation, I concede. Could be that they planned another "Johnny Comelately" like ww1, joining for the last few months & stealing the credit?
Chamberlain gets a bad rap, Britain had disarmed and was in no fit state to fight, he essentially bought time to build up military and industrial readiness.
You also seem to try and separate Ireland from the UK imperial past but the Irish were a very active part in the building and maintaining of that empire.
It really wasn't a matter of Territory, Hitler had no wish to fight the British, but Churchill, Attlee and others in the government recognised that it was terrible threat to liberty. Halifax would of agreed a peace and hoped that the USSR and Germany beat each other to death.
Until the holocaust the roman catholic church did sanction what it referred to as good anti semitism. Also Ireland wasn't ruled by a foreign power it was in union with england and scotland. Irish MPs and Lords sat in Parliament. The original Irish constitution recognised the catholic faith above others and there has been many cases of discrimation and intimidation of ethnic and religious minorities throughtout the Island of Ireland.
@JD1010101110 I'm no disciple or apologist for the Roman Catholic Church. You're right. The Catholic Church does take a special position in the constitution. That is wrong. However, there is religious discrimination in almost every country. If you want to talk about discrimination and intimidation of ethnic and religious minorities, you cannot dispute that Unionist Northern Ireland was by far, the biggest culprit. A sectarian state sanctioned and supported by the British establishment.
This is not true in the sense I meant, the unionist community has generally been far more accepting of muslims and chinese immigrants it has been the nationalists that have been historically at least more bigoted. Protestants in the south weren't treated that well either often having to hide their faith. As for the British Establishment it was the British govt that dismantled the unionist hegemony.
@JD1010101110 I have no reason to agree with you that Unionists have been far more accepting of muslims and chinese immigrants. Please provide some evidence. Whilst, Catholic-Protestant relations in the south weren't without some tensions, they certainly weren't strained to the point of protestants hiding their faith. Ever heard of Hyde or Childers? Presidents of Ireland, both Protestant.. Or championed figures of Irish nationalism like Wole Tone, Emmet or Parnell. All Protestants.
@JD1010101110 The UK government was the only entity that could have dismantle Unionist hegemony. Prior to that, they had done baffling things like give control of the British Army to the Unionist Government in the late 1960's. Hardly a wise decision.
This is true enough Government policy in ireland has always been a baffling mix of decisions and repeating mistakes. Certainly the British army actions should serve as a basic course in what not to do if you wish to maintain the support of the community.
@JD1010101110 I'm not sure what this is in reply to because you've replied to 6 or 7 posts at once. There were slaves in Ireland 1,000 years ago, there were slaves in the US 140 years ago.
Ever talked to a nationalist in Northern Ireland they don't want to be part of the republic they love the NHS to much, and the republic doesn't want them, they don't want the strife or the expense. The only way Ireland is ever likely to be united is as some sort of political unite within a federal europe. Can't see it ever happening myself.
@JD1010101110 I've actually worked with Irish nationalists from Strabane, County Tyrone who have claimed Irish passports (as they are entitled to do under the Belfast Agreement) and who most certainly wish to be part of a United Ireland. To claim "they" as though you are some kind of spokesman for the entire north of Ireland is insanely ignorant and you repeat your ignorance in the following assertion that the "republic" doesn't want the north back. I know plenty of people from Dublin who wish
at least a tenth of all people living on the Island of Britain can claim Irish passports as both countries allow dual citizenship. When i used the political term republic i was referring to the Govt of the state. Yet again you rely on anecdotal evidence and this is particularly flawed in your case due to your strong partisan opinions, as you are unlikely to mix with those that do not share your views. I could equally cling to many people I know in cork but this isn't rigorous.
@JD1010101110 that's entirely irrelevant. Someone claiming a passport suggests a strong feeling, especially if they are not living within the state whose passport they have claimed. Anecdotal like a history degree. Good man yourself. Unlikely to mix? You show a huge lack of understanding of the opinions of many of my neighbours in south Dublin. Poor show
Well, its not entirely irrelevant I hold an Irish passport not because i believe i am Irish but because it worked out a lot cheaper.
Again you have taken offensive where none was intended nor even opportune. If i took evidence solely from a few of my friends then Indiana Jones and the last crusade is the greatest movie ever? is that an accurate reflection of the opinions of the British public? no that is the flaw in such evidence. You do seem to have a chip on your shoulder.
@JD1010101110 I'm not sure what you're suggesting here again. You are completely missing the point (and frankly are naive) if you think that someone from Britain claiming an Irish passport is the same as an Irish Catholic from the north of Ireland claiming an Irish passport. If you believe Irish passports up the north are claimed simply to save money then I will have to completely disagree with you (with obvious very good reason).
@JD1010101110 Why do all the main political parties support a United Ireland (except perhaps the Greens; they clearly support the Irish language on their website but I can't find information on their views on Irish reunification). If it's such an irrelevant topic that only "a few of my friends" are in favour of, why do these parties talk about it still? Your own personal ignorance is once again exemplified here.
@JD1010101110 to see a United Ireland also. Please don't be so disgustingly general in your statements, it completely undermines what you say. I can accept that their are Irish people, both north and south, who are indifferent to the so-called border. I know far more who are totally opposed to it.
having seen many of your posts I really don't think you can call anyone disgusting least of all me. I tend to rely on statistical rather than anecdotal evidence. Having studied in cork and having family in county Derry i could call upon a great raft of it but doesn't provide a good overview.
sadly it seems you are deeply ignorant of Irish history and feel the need to hide this with insults rather than engage with issues, the sign of a weak argument and closed and frightened mind.
@JD1010101110 I'm afraid we will have to agree to disagree. No such insults were administered. I said you were ignorant, not an insult but an opinion. I wouldn't expect an product of the British school system to have any sort of fair appraisal of Irish history.
I don't have much to say about this except if you actually listen to what he says it makes perfect sense and in a matter of minutes de Valera sums up Ireland's position as the Republic and the six northern counties. And after he talked about the theoritcal Nazi occupation of the six counties then what many Irish have fought and died for makes perfect sense.
Think about this example for a moment did de Valera say that the six counties of England had a German speaking majority? If the six counties of England were determined to live under German rule, that would be different.
There was no shortage of jobs in Wartime Britain. UK had a chronic labour shortage which needed women & girls doing mens work for 1st time!
There were huge numbers of Irish working in Britains factories & heavy industry. Those who chose to fight, did so out of conscience. That and they saw that Eire's survival needed UKs survival!
To suggest otherwise, is to belittle their bravery & sacrifice!
If you think the irish who fought in WW2, did so for a free holiday, you're deluded! Only an idiot would sign up as a soldier for a wee bit of adventure, in Wartime! We were no fools. And I say that as someone who's grandfather, a native Irish speaker, with limited English, fought with the Brits!
"the fate of these two islands, the people’s of these two neighbouring islands is likely to be the same,"
If Dev really said this, it contradicts his own justification for Neutrality in WW2. He is admitting that whatever fate befell UK, Eire would share! And we know that if UK had fallen to the Nazis, so would Eire!
Maybe this is why so many Irish volunteered to fight with the Brits: It was enlightened self-interest. UK's survival ensured Ireland's: Sobering thought no?
To whom? What so many folk don't seem and/ or care to get, is that SOMEONE had to oppose Fascism! Who would oppose Hitler, if everyone took Dev's approach?
Just answer me 1 question: Where would we be now, if no one had opposed Hitler's Third Reich? Okay?
@DonegalRaymie201 you were`nt the first to oppose hitler and if it was`nt fo the americans you would be under your cousins occupation.Ireland would be free or we would be fighting your relatives
Hitler planned to invade Eire in 1940 you idiot; how would Nazi occupation make you "free"?
And it wasn't the US that defeated the Nazis, you've been watching too many John Wayne films! It was the Red Army, in a much nastier, bloodier, more brutal conflict, than any Hollywood film portrays!
Eire wouldn't have lasted a day if the UK had fallen to Hitler: Try reading a book sometime!
@DonegalRaymie201 we all know that gemany was had a eye on ireland.Read what i said .German occupation could not have been any worse than the english .hitler was easier on the jewish pepole than the brits were on the irish nation.read this book ,british brutality in ireland written by jack o`brien a former free state soldier it may help with your education and help you with the removal of the blinkers
@DonegalRaymie201 they say 6 million over lets say 7 years .then over 840 years in ireland the irish pepole that were tortured, imprisoned, murdered and deported out of there own country by the english gov .Now the way your talking tells me that you are either a institutionalized brit or a dirty free stater .your another one that dislikes the truth .If only you got a education
@dathi67 Seems like you have only myth, anecdote and apocrypha on which to base such a perjorative statement on. The only consistency is the racism, bigotry, hate and bile that pours from Ireland towards the British and especially the English. As for truth, it is obvious tha truth and yourself have but a fleeting acquaintance.
@MrBigfatbloke any hatred that is directed at england is meant for the gov `the ones that persecute you from the womb to the grave`the same ones that stole your tax money the `ones that were in on the fraud with the bankers`the same pepole are now committing acts of terrorism against a unarmed nation with total disregard for international law .how many innocent pepole have to die before pepole like you wake up .these dictators that you love are not welcome in ireland.ENGLAND U R SATAN
@dathi67 Have you been on the sauce? YOu see old boy, in Great Britain, we dont mind paying ytax because, it betters our lives. As for acts of terrorism on unarmed nations, not sure where that would be, perhpas you should explain! The United Kingodm, as the song says, is the Defender of the Faith and mother of the free! Seems like you are a little barmy old son, and like mad dogs, perhaps putting out of harms way!
I'm glad a politician from southern Ireland recently admitted their support for Nazi Germany and the Holocaust was absolutely shameful.
Not that it makes a difference to all the Jews who were turned away from Ireland and sent to Dauchau, Belsen, Auschwitz etc.
MrRobertJameson 2 weeks ago
@TheTwollocks Ireland did get Marshall Aid, because the Americans didn't want any countries in Europe to go Communist, also Dev said showing sympathy to Hitler was the biggest mistake of his life and speaking of living in the past, you come on here and plenty of other videos starting fights with people who want to learn more about history. Grow up and stop starting sill arguements because you genuinely are racist I have plenty of English friends who I talk to daily, don't give England a bad name
HCCOldGuy 3 weeks ago
@TheTwollocks Oh and what did my "selective memory" leave out? Everything I said was fact, I've seen your lies already and all you're doing is comin on here and talkin out your ass. Also how am I playin the victim? I never said we were a victim.
HCCOldGuy 3 weeks ago
@TheTwollocks No thats all wrong, the Embassador wouldn't let in Jews and when Dev found out he imprisoned him.
HCCOldGuy 3 weeks ago
@TheTwollocks What do you not get about Neutrality, we took no side, except we helped the British in ways that were actually illegal, we freed British spies into NI but we put German spies in POW camps, same with pilots, we sent Fire Brigades to NI during air raids and we gave out weather reports to the British warning them of possible German raids, If anything we were on the Allied side, we never ever helped the Axis.
HCCOldGuy 3 weeks ago
@TheTwollocks The Irish had enough sense to stay out of WW2.You bloody twat.
Darthvader7111 3 weeks ago
@TheTwollocks How is it a shit excuse, It would have been physically impossible.
HCCOldGuy 3 weeks ago
The fact that de Valera and the Republic of Ireland did not have the moral courage to fight against one of the most evil individual's the world has ever known will always be an abhorrent and everlasting blight on their record, but at least there were individual Irishmen and women who did fight, and did have the courage to stand up against the pernicious evil that was the Nazi regime, and thank heck for that.
MrAlban003 2 months ago 9
@MrAlban003 Ireland didnt have an army, we didnt have troops and we had literally just gotten the country back a few years before, Irelands population was between 3-4 million because of the massacres and the famine so considering Irish hate for the British back then, even if they tried to muster an army, there would be very few volunteers to fight alongside the Brits.
HCCOldGuy 1 month ago
@MrAlban003 Great sermon MrAlban.
We may not have fought against 'one of the most evil individuals the world has ever known', but we can console ourselves with the knowledge that we did not count the other most evil individual the world has ever seen as an ally!
jratt2 1 month ago
@jratt2 Thank God the Luftwaffe bombed Dublin.
MrRobertJameson 1 month ago
@MrAlban003 Your a fucking idiot. At the time it was JUST a war, everyone found out about the concentration camps after the war.
Niall1414 3 weeks ago
@RichardElden If you are hinting at iam from Czech republic,yeah BUT I AGREE WITH THIRD REICH POLICY.Czechoslovakia deserve this for occupation of Sudet-Deutschland and repression against German.And you GREAT,GREAT SHIT BRITAIN,provoked the war.SO FUCK YOU!
Komotau4691 3 months ago
Blow you in hell fucking fatman and shitface Churchill.
Komotau4691 3 months ago
@RichardElden Indeed. There was a plan agreed with the Irish government to do just that. We would have been allies. Imagine that.
jratt2 3 months ago
@RichardElden Both? Under what circumstances would they have been fighting both?
jratt2 4 months ago
@RichardElden From whom? The British or the Germans?
jratt2 4 months ago
Well, for starters, there wouldn't have been a Majority in SE England "Loyal" to germany, like there was/is in NI, loyal to the UK! That's Dev's 1st glaring error.
And, if the claim to NI was the reason for Eire's Neutrality, then why did ne NEVER condemn the Nazis for bombing Belfast, (if it was really part of his Ireland as he claimed!)
And yet, he called the very welcome US troops based in Ulster from '42, "an army of occupation"???
Huge double standards & massive hypocrisy methinks Dev!!
brother1ray 7 months ago 16
@brother1ray "why did ne NEVER condemn the Nazis for bombing Belfast" - he assisted in putting out the flames allowing for Southern firetrucks to cross the border, his condemnation was evident from this.
"there wouldn't have been a Majority in SE England "Loyal" to germany" - sure he glosses over the part where Germany would introduce plantation and encourage a culture of loyalty and triumphalism into the people for Germany (giving them supreiority over those who would still wish to be English)
godbrother10 7 months ago
@godbrother10
Bull, that's not a condemnation at all! He had NO problem condemning the ALLIED US troops in Ulster, but went to his death NEVER having condemned Hitler or even admitting the horrors of the Holocaust! He was a complete hypocrit!
His attempted analogy doesn't work, because he ignores the reality of NI demography and the historical reality of the day!
Oh, and did I mention his Monumental double standards? Even if you can't see them, those without blinkers can't miss them!
brother1ray 7 months ago 6
@brother1ray 'He had NO problem condemning the ALLIED US troops in Ulster, but went to his death NEVER having condemned Hitler or even admitting the horrors of the Holocaust! He was a complete hypocrit!'
Not when you compare like with like: Eire had a claim on NI and Dev condemned all foreign troops there did he not?
If he had condemned Hitler for war crimes he felt it would have been a 'monumental double standard' not to condemn the Allies for their war crimes also, so he said nothing.
jratt2 6 months ago
@jratt2
WTF are you gibbering about?
"Eire had a claim on NI and Dev condemned all foreign troops..." ??
Then why did he condemn the US & Canadians quartered there as "an army of occupation" while he said NOTHING against Hitler who fuckin' bombed the heart out of Belfast, and killed more than 1000 People there???
Because he was a fuckin' Hypocrit, just like you!!!
Where exactly were the Allies "Extermination camps" like Belsen & Auschwitz then, eh???
Typical, Nazi apologist shite!
brother1ray 5 months ago
@brother1ray I condemn the Nazis.
NI was considered Irish territory, so logically there should have only been Irish troops there not US, Canadian or UK. If he had condemned the bombing of Belfast he would also have had to condemn the bombing of German cities, such is the position of the neutral. As it happens, the year before the Belfast Blitz he condemned the invasion of the low countries and Hitler warned him that this was an unneutral act.
For war crimes see Dresden, Katyn and Hiroshima.
jratt2 5 months ago
@jratt2
Christ almighty, if "NI was considered Irish territory", then LOGICALLY, the Belfast Blitz was a blatant and obvious attack on De Valera's Eire then, since Belfast is in NI, & NI was "considered IRISH TERRITORY!"
What part of that do you not get???
But what did Dev say about it? Sweet FA! That's the gross, BLATANT Hypocrisy!
Typical Dev, NI is "Irish" only when it suits!
brother1ray 5 months ago
@brother1ray Sweet FA? This is what he said:
“In the past, and probably in the present, too, a number of them did not see eye to eye with us politically, but they are our people – we are one and the same people – and their sorrows in the present instance are also our sorrows; and I want to say to them that any help we can give to them in the present time we will give to them whole-heartedly, believing that were the circumstances reversed they would also give us their help whole-heartedly”
jratt2 5 months ago
@jratt2
Eh? Where is the clear condemnation of the nazi bombing in that??? He don't even mention the Nazis in that at all!
Get your head out of the sand, and admit that Dev was a total hypocrit! When it really mattered, when an enemy actually attacked and killed Northern Irish people, suddenly his claim to NI territory is amazingly forgotten, and it was merely an attack on the UK, not Ireland!!!
Again, What part of this do you not get???
brother1ray 5 months ago 3
@brother1ray First of all you said he said 'Sweet FA'. He did not. 'When it really mattered...suddenly his claim to NI territory is amazingly forgotten...'
In his speech he says 'we are one and the same people'. Sounds like he's remembering the claim to me. It may be to subtle for you but Unionist leaders went mental over it!
According to Dr Ian Anderson OBE, Hitler ordered all gloating propaganda about Belfast to cease, in case Dev woke Irish-America out of its slumber.
Get it?
jratt2 5 months ago
@jratt2
FFS, are you retarded or just too embarassed to admit by your "man crush" on Dev, that he was a hypocritical c*nt?
Too subtle?? What in reply to the fuckin' bombs that fell on HIS COUNTRY by HIS CLAIMS???
Which was it moron? Was Belfast part of Dev's Ireland or not???
And if it were, then, it was BY HIS OWN WORDS, an attack on IRELAND by the Nazis!!!!
Get it fuckwit???
No 1 does self-deceit like you c*nts man!
brother1ray 5 months ago 4
@brother1ray So now that we have dealt with your error regarding Dev saying 'Sweet FA', we return to your substantive point . While Dev acknowledged Irish people were bombed in Belfast, he was in no position to do anything about it. If he declared war it would have been illogical for him not to send troops North of the border. People like you would have gone mental. You would have thought you were being invaded by 'pro-Nazi' southerners who refuel U-boats!
jratt2 5 months ago
@jratt2:
Total BS! HE SAID NOTHING TO CONDEMN the Nazis, like he did to condemn the Allies, who didn't kill anyone in NI, unlike the fuckin' Nazis! Capisce???
" it would have been illogical for him not to send troops North of the border." WTF? What is the rationale of that supposed to be? You don't "invade" your fellow Ally's territory unless you are granted Permission to do so, like the US & Canadian troops in NI were by the UK, FFS!
Crawl back under your rock & try inventing another excuse!
brother1ray 5 months ago
@brother1ray Wtf are you talking about???
'Which was it moron? Was Belfast part of Dev's Ireland or not???' said you.
If Dev was to go to war because of the claim on NI, then why would he have to ask permission to send his troops into his own country? Churchill would have been the one asking permission!!
You are obviously suggesting he declare war because NI was Irish and then act as if NI was still British.
The weird double-think of your argument is laughable!
jratt2 5 months ago
@jratt2
Fuck off c*nt! Dev claimed NI was Irish territory when the Allies placed forces there, but when Hitler bombed the fuck out of Belfast, suddenly it's UK territory??? Are you fuckin' retarded or what???
I'm not the one with a TOTALLY INCONSISTENT position on NI, YOU ARE!
And that's why, You'll never have a UI, because the People of NI saw just what kind of hypocritical slime, the Freestate/ROI was!
And that's why 84% of NI people wish to remain Brits!
Ha fuckin Ha, prick!!!
brother1ray 5 months ago
@brother1ray Where did I say Dev considered NI UK territory when the Nazis bombed it?
And you are wrong. Neither of us is 'totally inconsistent' - quite the opposite in fact. You are consistently wrong, and I'm consistently right.
I have no interest in a United Ireland. None whatsoever.
jratt2 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@jratt2
Yawn, here we again:
"Christ almighty, if "NI was considered Irish territory", then LOGICALLY, the Belfast Blitz was a blatant and obvious attack on De Valera's Eire then, since Belfast is in NI, & NI was "considered IRISH TERRITORY!"
What part of that do you not get???
But what did Dev say about it? Sweet FA! That's the gross, BLATANT Hypocrisy!
Typical Dev, NI is "Irish" only when it suits!"
Maybe you'll get something right 1 of these days!
brother1ray 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@brother1ray 'His attempted analogy doesn't work, because he ignores the reality of NI demography and the historical reality of the day!'
It worked very well for Churchill. He described it as 'Dev's finest hour'!
Your comment about the blinkers is rather unfortunate.
jratt2 6 months ago
@godbrother10 excellent response.
@ brother1ray...its about time you stopped focusing on WWII as if its the only significant period/ conflict in History. DeValera's stance was based on Irish interests and Irish needs, not British.
In fact, such was the inferior size of the Irish Armed Forces, if they had joined in the war effort, it would have only introduced a significantly weak flank on Britain.
Also, the Irish Government secretly aided and abetted the Allied War effort.
LiamMacSuibhne 4 days ago
@LiamMacSuibhne
Look, I was just pointing out the crass and blatant Hypocrisy of de Valera in this very speech, and that his attempted "hypothetical question" doesn't work, for the reasons given!
I notice, you can't in any way defend or counter those criticisms.
I've long since given up on trying to educate the wilfully blind & blinkered! You just carry on believing de Valera was an honourable leader who accidently lamented the death of Hitler & merely forgot to EVER condemn the Holocaust!
brother1ray 2 days ago
Eire was certainly NOT neutral in WW2. Diplomatically yes, but in the real world De Valera knew he only had one enemy, and that enemy had a moustache. He knew that ultimately irelands independence and freedom was linked to that of the UK and he secretly helped the UK in many ways. Today you can still see the RAF navigation markers on the hills of the west of ireland. He chose to side with a familiar enemy rather than with an alien monster, and history judges him well for it.
maureenOWW 9 months ago 2
@maureenOWW Excellent post, I totally agree.
jratt2 7 months ago
THis video is VERY misleading. The FACTS are the Eire and UK collaborated during WW2. We had agreements for mutual defense; if ireland was invaded, UK would sned troops, if UK was invaded the RAF would move to ireland. Casement Aerodrome was agreed to be the main RAF base in Eire, and irish ports were toured by the Royal Navy to evaluate their readiness.. Sites for radar installations were also discussed, as well as aircraft beacons, anti-sub recon, counter-espionage and diplomatic 'probing'.
maureenOWW 9 months ago 2
@maureenOWW
Not to mention Drogheda's Grendon's Foundry manufactured Mills grenades for the British, of course ordnance filling was done across the sea, but the bodies case was cast here.
I know this because a relative of mine made quite a few thousand, no record of this remains sadly, but I take his word for it. There is probably incidents of other Irish foundry's and industries manufacturing goods for the British war effort, records of such, as you can imagine, are hard to find.
marmaladekamikaze 8 months ago
@maureenOWW
I'm interested in your sources, any books to point me to?
marmaladekamikaze 8 months ago
Centuries old ties? What ties? The hangman's noose? England was Ireland's Hitler. England didn't write the book on public relations. With neighbors like England, Ireland didn't need Hitler as an enemy.
paddycentered 10 months ago
@paddycentered Yes I know that the English did some terrible things in Ireland, but to come out with a statement such as "England was Ireland's Hitler" is plainly ridiculous and pretty offensive. You obviously need to do a little more research and gain a sense of perspective.
tomd2103 9 months ago
@tomd2103 alot of what the british did to the irish was very wrong but i don't think you can compare one bad act to another each should be taken in their own right but i still see the point de valera is making. i think he does have a point. the hitler thing is also very different because hitler was taking over non-german land. the irish were trying to get back what was originally theirs.
ubsessedfananime 9 months ago
@paddycentered Clearly, Ireland didn't think Hitler was a worse enemy than England. Sorry if that offends>>>>
paddycentered 9 months ago
@poxrider...
De Valera put Hitler above the centuries-old ties with its nearest neighbour when
it was facing the gravest threat, forsaking countless Anglo-Irish family ties
steeped in history. It is a wonder that ANYONE understands that mindset! I
won't stoop to exchange insults, since many a better man came out of Ireland to advance the human condition than stayed at home to foment hate. And, thank
heavens, they still emerge, to do credit to their country around the world.
songsmith31a 10 months ago
@poxrider...
when one considers the threat posed by Hitler and his brainwashed legions,
a man who put a neighbouring country of the foremost defender of world
freedom at that time (allowing for the United States' entry into the conflict after the Battle of Britain) in a "neutral" political position could be thought doing the work
of the devil in the context of those far less secular days. Had Hitler won, what,
I wonder, would have been Ireland's fate in a new dark age?
Britain
songsmith31a 10 months ago
@songsmith31a
Your self-satisfying ignorance of Irish history, or if I'm being kind, your lack of sensitivity towards Ireland's history of that period, is so blatant I have no intention wasting my time on another pointless exchange with a crank troll. Suffice to say you have been indentified as the crank troll you are.
poxrider 10 months ago
There is an old adage that "the middle man is the devil's ally".
songsmith31a 11 months ago
@songsmith31a
Another reference to the devil posted on a Irish related video, and you still contend you have no ulterior motive to these comments??
And making up your own 'old adage' to supply the reference. Are you just a crank troll, or trying to work out your own demons??
poxrider 10 months ago
He has such a cultured voice, doesn't he?
edgeypoosisepic 1 year ago
@TheFutureadvocate Quite obviously an ignorance of history is another one of your personal achievements, like most micks, you use ignorance and revision instead of truth and fact......the fact that you can flush your shit away is because of the Brits etc,etc.....you are like a mick version of "the peoples front of judea" in Monty Python "what did the Brits ever do for us"? Look out of your window and rejoice in the fact that the reason you are not 3rd world, is because of the Brits!
MrBigfatbloke 1 year ago
@TheFutureadvocate The only excrement that is obvious for all to see, is what you write! The fact is, you "people" have an over inflated sense of entitlement, perhaps its through living next door to a giant, perhaps it is petty envy, but the sad fact is, you are a small nation with a small mentality.
MrBigfatbloke 1 year ago
@TheFutureadvocate You can find the information yourself old chap, If I, a mere Englishman, inferior to the irish pure bred master race, can find it I am sure you can too.
How many black people are their as a percentage in the ROI, better, how many JEWS? I can tell you but you seem lazy and will demand a link! Because of the pure bred nature of your small country of 4.5 million, you are racist as a country in the extreme.
MrBigfatbloke 1 year ago
@TheFutureadvocate Obviously, you cannot handle the truth can you! As one Unionist MP put it, "Can you imagine, we are in committee discussing famine in Zimbabwe, and we get a whinge from the bog about the irish famine" One of the reasons why a selfish little country like Ireland will never be allowed in.
The racisim in the ROI is endemic, you try going into a pub in Limerick with an English accent!
MrBigfatbloke 1 year ago
@daccord1853
How can Britain civilize India when India has been a civilized countries for 3,000 years?? When Britain herself was in the throes of the Dark Ages??
Infact nothing the Hindus and Muslims have done to one another comes close to what England did to Catholics for all of these years. Infact there is a a law in the books preventing a Catholic member of the Royal family, yet in India, a Muslim can and has become Head of State.
suryavajra 1 year ago
De valera was a Gobshite
meakd 1 year ago
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thedochra 1 year ago
@thedochra put your selective history book away and face the facts. england was forced out of india just like every other country you ever set foot in .think about it england never left any country peacefully only at a point of a gun.there will never be peace in the world until english pepole have been educated and have the balls to stand up to there terrorist gov .Sadly this will never happen as this robotic nation have been programmed to obey there master and live in fear of the bailiff
thedochra 1 year ago
@thedochra
Infact did you know that DeValera was friend to the cause of Indian Nationalism?? Subash Chandra Bose had great respect for De Valera, and it was De Valera who recognized the Azad Hind government.
suryavajra 1 year ago
@daccord1853 you are wrong yet again. India was divided by the english and the country of pakistan was created to cause conflict between the two .Can you please tell me when your filthy terrorist goverment ever improved the lives of the pepole when you invaded there country .Tell me why do you like having your pants pulled down everyday and shafted by your goverment `but you dislike pepole who stand up against oppression and give there lives for the freedom of there country
thedochra 1 year ago
@thedochra
thedorchra, you are right about India there....
suryavajra 1 year ago
@suryavajra thankyou. thisdaccord1853 is not worth anymore replies . the man is a fool who talks out of his arse . I think he has an A+ IN SELECTIVE HISTORY
thedochra 1 year ago
@thedochra
no probs thedochra!! you're totally right about ''selective memory''. What still surprises me is how extensive that collective amnesia is...
suryavajra 1 year ago
@thedochra
no probs thedochra!! you're totally right about ''selective memory''. What still surprises me is how extensive that collective amnesia is...
suryavajra 1 year ago
@daccord1853 Its due to the Brits we speak English because they opressed Irish language and culture. Whats the difference in speaking english or german due to colonisation? both are foreign languages.
WestBritWatch 1 year ago
@daccord1853 The good friday agreement was only voted on inside 'northern ireland'
WestBritWatch 1 year ago
@daccord1853 You may as well have theres no difference in the Nazi occupation of Poland and the British occupation of Ireland.
WestBritWatch 1 year ago
@daccord1853 NI has a puppet parliament to make it look like its governed by NI when in reality its governed by an unelected government in England. Britain drew the border in a way to create a false majority.
WestBritWatch 1 year ago
@daccord1853 pakistan is india was`nt it divided by the british just like kuwait and iraq and palistine/isreal, serbia/kosovo ireland and many other small nations that they think can be bullied .england`s gov has always been a terrorist organisation
thedochra 1 year ago
@thedochra daccord supported the Nazi invasion of Belgium, Poland and the Czech republic and the British occupation of Ireland he is a facsist scumbag.
WestBritWatch 1 year ago
@WestBritWatch I Agee. Does he not understand my enemies enemy is my friend.Anyone who fights the english is my friend
thedochra 1 year ago
@thedochra I agree.does he not understand my enemies enemy is my friend.Anyone who fights the english is my friend.
thedochra 1 year ago
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thedochra 1 year ago
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thedochra 1 year ago
@DonegalRaymie201 your not irish your mother used to nip over the border for a quickie with one of the tans
thedochra 1 year ago
@DonegalRaymie201 Why are you bringing religion inside a partitioned state into it you sectarian minded filthy bastard?
WestBritWatch 1 year ago
@daccord1853 Your basing a country on some peoples religion - thats exacttly what Israel does. I couldnt care less about NI, I have a right to have Ireland goverened by Irish people and not invading powers like Britain
WestBritWatch 1 year ago
@daccord1853 Britain doesn't have a right to any part of Ireland, or to create a fake country inside the Irish Nation.
WestBritWatch 1 year ago
@daccord1853 Did you agree with the german occupation of belgium?
WestBritWatch 1 year ago
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WestBritWatch 1 year ago
@daccord1853 That must be why the Jews named a forest in his name near Nazareth, dedicated to him for his great treatment of the Jews in Ireland, not to mention giving them special recognition in the constitution.
WestBritWatch 1 year ago
@jratt2
actually most of the serving officers in the Irish army had no part in the war of independence, most came from Irish units of the British army that had been variously stationed around the world.
JD1010101110 1 year ago
@JD1010101110 'most of the serving officers in the Irish Army had no part in the war of independence'...I don't understand this statement. Perhaps you are referring to as my original comment must be very old. I agree, many serving Irish troops in the Free State Army transferred from the British Army. However, some of the most successful IRA leaders in the war of Independence were ex-British Soldiers and First World War veterans. Not sure what comment of mine you are referring to though.
jratt2 1 year ago
@jratt2
Thats an entirely fair point and is also why I said most, not all.
JD1010101110 1 year ago
@rockinbillyboy
Since the vast majority settled in the UK they evidently did prefer British rule. Though i doubt they would have been a great deal of support for an invasion of ireland in any part of british society.
JD1010101110 1 year ago
@shakeystevensVIII
The UK didn't sell out any allies during the war, and though organisations like the Special Operation Executive a group that took some inspiration from the IRA it supplied and trained resistance all across the world. Also remember that in 1939 the UK was in the middle of a bombing campaign, by the IRA.
JD1010101110 1 year ago
@remedy63
No many joined because they felt the Nazis were threat, many recognised that if Britain fell so wound Ireland, and that if Ireland was to remain fed it would be by British convoys. Though very few of those volunteers ever went home because despite Britain's survival being in the Irish best interest they were treated as traitors. Most settled in the UK.
JD1010101110 1 year ago
@JD1010101110 This is not the only reason the Irish joined. There was a tradition of joining the British Army in many Irish families, also many Irish were looking for fun and adventure. Few came home, some because of the anti-British bias, but most because there was nothing here for them. One of my great uncles came home because he had a farm to inherit, the other stayed in the UK. The economy of Ireleand post war was also a major factor.
jratt2 1 year ago
@Kuabla
The US actually recruited many ex Nazis not just scientists but SS etc to help them fight the Soviets. Do the Irish truly have a unique set of morals? what sets them apart from their British cousins?
JD1010101110 1 year ago
@JD1010101110 No of course we don't have a unique set of morals. The morals in question arose from the fact that someone else had repeatedly use the words SHAME ON IRELAND to consolidate their argument. I thought this was stupid.
Kuabla 1 year ago
@shakeystevensVIII
They were prisoners of war, and hostilities had ended, thats not harbouring people. The Bombing of a Dresden was necessary it was a major railhead for the wehrmacht and a huge obstacle for the red army, and all efforts to minimise casualities were made, German civilians were warned to leave the cities. If the allies had simply wanted to slaughter everyone they would of gassed it rather than send two bombing raids.
JD1010101110 1 year ago
@OasisDublin
UCD was original a college of London i believe, also the Irish Party is recognised as fore runner of all the political independence movements. Edmund Burke was a protestant and the father of conservatism but he argued strongly for catholic emancipation, the situation is nowhere near as black and white as you draw it.
JD1010101110 1 year ago
@JD1010101110 Again I'm not sure what post this is in reference to. UCD was an Irish Catholic university in the beginning. I'm not sure of it being a London college. Give me a source! All politial independence movements? Modern British Conservatives are Unionist. I'm not too sure why this is being brought up.
OasisDublin 1 year ago
@OasisDublin
Actually many neo liberals in the right of the conservative party unencumbered with the longing for tradition that others in there party have would love to get rid of NI and the massive costs it burdens on the exchequer
JD1010101110 1 year ago
@JD1010101110 Many nobody politicians who wish to put out populist manifestos claim they don't the north. The democratically elected leader of the party and the democratically elected leader of the United Kingdom made a trip to Belfast in order to show his support for the (laughable) Ulster Unionist Party and in order to establish the "party of the Union." You can take select anecdotal quotes from nobodies badgering on about NI. I'll stick to the statistics (Cameron = pop.) if thats OK with you.
OasisDublin 1 year ago
@OasisDublin
Well FDR would likely have got the US into the War, all it would take is an incident in the north atlantic as he extended the US zone of merchant protection, just as the Luisitania provided Cassus Belli in the first. The Republic did suffer an attack worse than Pearl harbour, the Dublin raid, fire brigades from the north had to attend, just as brigades from the south had done during the Belfast blitz.
JD1010101110 1 year ago
@JD1010101110 Dublin raid worse than Pearl Harbour. What are you talking about!? One was an attack on civilians, one severely damaged a war fleet in the Pacific.
OasisDublin 1 year ago
@OasisDublin
Exactly.
JD1010101110 1 year ago
@OasisDublin
Actually FDR was desperate to get into the fight, he recognised the unparalleled threat the nazis posed, pearl harbour just gave him an excellent opportunity.
JD1010101110 1 year ago
@JD1010101110 FDR was desperate to sell US arms to Europe to boost the economy. He was only interested in fighting for the "morally right" side when the US was attacked.
OasisDublin 1 year ago
@OasisDublin
No that's entirely false reading of history, FDR sold arms though more things like Boots, trains and tractors to the British at cost, and then let this by repaid in a very generous loan agreements. Mainly because he recognised that if Britain fell it would be nye on impossible to liberate europe, and the safety of the world would be threatened without the Royal Navy holding germany in check.
JD1010101110 1 year ago
@JD1010101110 I'm not sure how much it is really. If the USA was so concerned about liberating countries from government threats, how come it did not intervene in Iron Bloc eastern Europe or modern day China, for example. Oh that's right, because the USA did not care until it was attacked.
OasisDublin 1 year ago
@OasisDublin
Because FDR was dead by then, Churchill had wanted to, He even had the general staff draw up a plan, they called it operation unthinkable.
But again another childish and somewhat vitriol interpretation of a incredible complex period of history. Whatever education system you are a product of is in series need of an overhaul.
JD1010101110 1 year ago
@JD1010101110 I mentioned the US, not FDR. I've stated the US only intervened in the Second World War when it suited them; they did not have a feeling of moral obligation to help the brave and morally correct Allies against the tyrannic Nazis but rather they chose only to fight the Nazis when they felt their territory was under a real threat. Funny how the US didn't intervene in Eastern Europe despite knowledge of atrocities in Romania and Poland, amongst others, and it also wasn't attacked...
OasisDublin 1 year ago
@OasisDublin
Eh, Nazi Germany made no attack on the USA! If the US entered the War only because of Pearl Harbour, then why did they form such a major part of the Allies force in Liberating Western Europe? Why did they not confine their military fight to Japan and the Pacific?
And did the US sell arms etc to the Axis powers?
Read some history, it will liberate you.
DonegalRaymie201 1 year ago
@DonegalRaymie201 Japan and Germany were allies.
OasisDublin 1 year ago
@OasisDublin
You miss the point. "only to fight the Nazis when they felt their territory was under a real threat."?
The Nazis never threatened the US! If what you say were true, then the US should only have fought Japan in the Pacific, not Nazis in Europe. And the US had been supporting the UK for years in WW2 before Pearl Harbour, and were planning to enter the War anyway. The Japanese just hastened it!
DonegalRaymie201 1 year ago
@DonegalRaymie201 Right but Japan and Germany were allies. After Pearl Harbour, and only after Pearl Harbour, did Germany declare war on the US. Hitler didn't particularly want to make an enemy of the US.
OasisDublin 1 year ago
@OasisDublin
Yes, but they were poor Allies! They fought totally seperate wars & shared little, I'm sure Hitler was pretty pissed at Japan for bringing the US into the War before he was ready. He had been careful to avoid attacks on US ships in the Atlantic by his U-boats.
Incidently, he wasn't so careful or cared little and sunk 16 ships of Neutral Eire in WW2! But then he did plan to invade Eire when he was done with the Brits, so maybe not so surprising?
DonegalRaymie201 1 year ago
@DonegalRaymie201 I think it's highly naive of anyone to claim that the US 100% definitely would have entered the war had it not been for the attack on Pearl Harbour. To say anything else is purely speculation.
Japan and Germany shared arms and intelligence. Admittedly, they never really fought together like the US and its European allies but Hitler still felt compelled to declare war on the US after Pearl Harbour. That says something.
I'm not sure that all of Ireland's lost ships were sunk by
OasisDublin 1 year ago
@DonegalRaymie201 Germany, I'd have to read further into it however. Germany (or Britain) for that matter would have had no problem invading Ireland if it was seen as absolutely necessary. Sinking a few rusty auld ships would have made little difference to the Irish cause. Don't forget, thousands of Irishmen joined the war effort in both World Wars, long before the US decided to join both wars.
OasisDublin 1 year ago
@OasisDublin
Maybe I misunderstood you. Is your beef that the US had to be forced into WW2 by Japan? That they didn't stand against Nazism until they had to?
I've read various accounts, (admittedly by US writers), that the US were preparing for entry into WW2 before Pearl Harbour, but just when they would have joined is speculation, I concede. Could be that they planned another "Johnny Comelately" like ww1, joining for the last few months & stealing the credit?
DonegalRaymie201 1 year ago
@JD1010101110 One can only assume it's a giant coincidence!
OasisDublin 1 year ago
@shakeystevensVIII
Chamberlain gets a bad rap, Britain had disarmed and was in no fit state to fight, he essentially bought time to build up military and industrial readiness.
You also seem to try and separate Ireland from the UK imperial past but the Irish were a very active part in the building and maintaining of that empire.
JD1010101110 1 year ago
@shakeystevensVIII
It really wasn't a matter of Territory, Hitler had no wish to fight the British, but Churchill, Attlee and others in the government recognised that it was terrible threat to liberty. Halifax would of agreed a peace and hoped that the USSR and Germany beat each other to death.
JD1010101110 1 year ago
@shakeystevensVIII
Churchill did have the railway lines to the camps repeatedly bombed, the SS treated their repair as a priority over more vital military projects.
JD1010101110 1 year ago
@Kuabla
Until the holocaust the roman catholic church did sanction what it referred to as good anti semitism. Also Ireland wasn't ruled by a foreign power it was in union with england and scotland. Irish MPs and Lords sat in Parliament. The original Irish constitution recognised the catholic faith above others and there has been many cases of discrimation and intimidation of ethnic and religious minorities throughtout the Island of Ireland.
JD1010101110 1 year ago
@JD1010101110 I'm no disciple or apologist for the Roman Catholic Church. You're right. The Catholic Church does take a special position in the constitution. That is wrong. However, there is religious discrimination in almost every country. If you want to talk about discrimination and intimidation of ethnic and religious minorities, you cannot dispute that Unionist Northern Ireland was by far, the biggest culprit. A sectarian state sanctioned and supported by the British establishment.
Kuabla 1 year ago
@Kuabla
This is not true in the sense I meant, the unionist community has generally been far more accepting of muslims and chinese immigrants it has been the nationalists that have been historically at least more bigoted. Protestants in the south weren't treated that well either often having to hide their faith. As for the British Establishment it was the British govt that dismantled the unionist hegemony.
JD1010101110 1 year ago
@JD1010101110 I have no reason to agree with you that Unionists have been far more accepting of muslims and chinese immigrants. Please provide some evidence. Whilst, Catholic-Protestant relations in the south weren't without some tensions, they certainly weren't strained to the point of protestants hiding their faith. Ever heard of Hyde or Childers? Presidents of Ireland, both Protestant.. Or championed figures of Irish nationalism like Wole Tone, Emmet or Parnell. All Protestants.
Kuabla 1 year ago
@JD1010101110 The UK government was the only entity that could have dismantle Unionist hegemony. Prior to that, they had done baffling things like give control of the British Army to the Unionist Government in the late 1960's. Hardly a wise decision.
Kuabla 1 year ago
@Kuabla
This is true enough Government policy in ireland has always been a baffling mix of decisions and repeating mistakes. Certainly the British army actions should serve as a basic course in what not to do if you wish to maintain the support of the community.
JD1010101110 1 year ago
@OasisDublin
After the fall of Rome the Irish carried on a healthy trade in British slaves, on such Slave was St Patrick.
JD1010101110 1 year ago
@JD1010101110 I'm not sure what this is in reply to because you've replied to 6 or 7 posts at once. There were slaves in Ireland 1,000 years ago, there were slaves in the US 140 years ago.
OasisDublin 1 year ago
@OasisDublin
who's talking about the USA, cultural and national interchange do as you admit go back millenia between the people of these isles.
JD1010101110 1 year ago
@OasisDublin
Ever talked to a nationalist in Northern Ireland they don't want to be part of the republic they love the NHS to much, and the republic doesn't want them, they don't want the strife or the expense. The only way Ireland is ever likely to be united is as some sort of political unite within a federal europe. Can't see it ever happening myself.
JD1010101110 1 year ago
@JD1010101110 I've actually worked with Irish nationalists from Strabane, County Tyrone who have claimed Irish passports (as they are entitled to do under the Belfast Agreement) and who most certainly wish to be part of a United Ireland. To claim "they" as though you are some kind of spokesman for the entire north of Ireland is insanely ignorant and you repeat your ignorance in the following assertion that the "republic" doesn't want the north back. I know plenty of people from Dublin who wish
OasisDublin 1 year ago
@OasisDublin
at least a tenth of all people living on the Island of Britain can claim Irish passports as both countries allow dual citizenship. When i used the political term republic i was referring to the Govt of the state. Yet again you rely on anecdotal evidence and this is particularly flawed in your case due to your strong partisan opinions, as you are unlikely to mix with those that do not share your views. I could equally cling to many people I know in cork but this isn't rigorous.
JD1010101110 1 year ago
@JD1010101110 that's entirely irrelevant. Someone claiming a passport suggests a strong feeling, especially if they are not living within the state whose passport they have claimed. Anecdotal like a history degree. Good man yourself. Unlikely to mix? You show a huge lack of understanding of the opinions of many of my neighbours in south Dublin. Poor show
OasisDublin 1 year ago
@OasisDublin
Well, its not entirely irrelevant I hold an Irish passport not because i believe i am Irish but because it worked out a lot cheaper.
Again you have taken offensive where none was intended nor even opportune. If i took evidence solely from a few of my friends then Indiana Jones and the last crusade is the greatest movie ever? is that an accurate reflection of the opinions of the British public? no that is the flaw in such evidence. You do seem to have a chip on your shoulder.
JD1010101110 1 year ago
@JD1010101110 I'm not sure what you're suggesting here again. You are completely missing the point (and frankly are naive) if you think that someone from Britain claiming an Irish passport is the same as an Irish Catholic from the north of Ireland claiming an Irish passport. If you believe Irish passports up the north are claimed simply to save money then I will have to completely disagree with you (with obvious very good reason).
OasisDublin 1 year ago
@JD1010101110 Why do all the main political parties support a United Ireland (except perhaps the Greens; they clearly support the Irish language on their website but I can't find information on their views on Irish reunification). If it's such an irrelevant topic that only "a few of my friends" are in favour of, why do these parties talk about it still? Your own personal ignorance is once again exemplified here.
OasisDublin 1 year ago
@JD1010101110 to see a United Ireland also. Please don't be so disgustingly general in your statements, it completely undermines what you say. I can accept that their are Irish people, both north and south, who are indifferent to the so-called border. I know far more who are totally opposed to it.
OasisDublin 1 year ago
@OasisDublin
having seen many of your posts I really don't think you can call anyone disgusting least of all me. I tend to rely on statistical rather than anecdotal evidence. Having studied in cork and having family in county Derry i could call upon a great raft of it but doesn't provide a good overview.
JD1010101110 1 year ago
@JD1010101110 Your ignorance is disgusting to read. It's a rather simple concept.
OasisDublin 1 year ago
@OasisDublin
sadly it seems you are deeply ignorant of Irish history and feel the need to hide this with insults rather than engage with issues, the sign of a weak argument and closed and frightened mind.
JD1010101110 1 year ago
@JD1010101110 I'm afraid we will have to agree to disagree. No such insults were administered. I said you were ignorant, not an insult but an opinion. I wouldn't expect an product of the British school system to have any sort of fair appraisal of Irish history.
OasisDublin 1 year ago
he makes perfect sence to me!
MultiMe85 1 year ago
very very well put mr de valera.
jfitzy 1 year ago
I don't have much to say about this except if you actually listen to what he says it makes perfect sense and in a matter of minutes de Valera sums up Ireland's position as the Republic and the six northern counties. And after he talked about the theoritcal Nazi occupation of the six counties then what many Irish have fought and died for makes perfect sense.
Irishking750 1 year ago
@Irishking750
Think about this example for a moment did de Valera say that the six counties of England had a German speaking majority? If the six counties of England were determined to live under German rule, that would be different.
shahideurope 1 year ago
@ocean3da
There was no shortage of jobs in Wartime Britain. UK had a chronic labour shortage which needed women & girls doing mens work for 1st time!
There were huge numbers of Irish working in Britains factories & heavy industry. Those who chose to fight, did so out of conscience. That and they saw that Eire's survival needed UKs survival!
To suggest otherwise, is to belittle their bravery & sacrifice!
You really need to read some history!
DonegalRaymie201 1 year ago 4
@ocean3da
If you think the irish who fought in WW2, did so for a free holiday, you're deluded! Only an idiot would sign up as a soldier for a wee bit of adventure, in Wartime! We were no fools. And I say that as someone who's grandfather, a native Irish speaker, with limited English, fought with the Brits!
DonegalRaymie201 1 year ago
@ocean3da
"the fate of these two islands, the people’s of these two neighbouring islands is likely to be the same,"
If Dev really said this, it contradicts his own justification for Neutrality in WW2. He is admitting that whatever fate befell UK, Eire would share! And we know that if UK had fallen to the Nazis, so would Eire!
Maybe this is why so many Irish volunteered to fight with the Brits: It was enlightened self-interest. UK's survival ensured Ireland's: Sobering thought no?
DonegalRaymie201 1 year ago 4
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@ocean3da
I asked one simple question, and you give this rambling, incoherent rant that never even touches on an answer to that 1 question!
So again: What if no one had opposed Hitler's Third Reich?
And Hitler didn't want a "white race empire", he wanted an Aryan one! Most Jews are white, if you hadn't noticed!
DonegalRaymie201 1 year ago 17
@ocean3da
To whom? What so many folk don't seem and/ or care to get, is that SOMEONE had to oppose Fascism! Who would oppose Hitler, if everyone took Dev's approach?
Just answer me 1 question: Where would we be now, if no one had opposed Hitler's Third Reich? Okay?
Now tell me how right Dev was!
DonegalRaymie201 1 year ago 6
@DonegalRaymie201 you were`nt the first to oppose hitler and if it was`nt fo the americans you would be under your cousins occupation.Ireland would be free or we would be fighting your relatives
dathi67 1 year ago
@dathi67
Hitler planned to invade Eire in 1940 you idiot; how would Nazi occupation make you "free"?
And it wasn't the US that defeated the Nazis, you've been watching too many John Wayne films! It was the Red Army, in a much nastier, bloodier, more brutal conflict, than any Hollywood film portrays!
Eire wouldn't have lasted a day if the UK had fallen to Hitler: Try reading a book sometime!
DonegalRaymie201 1 year ago 5
@DonegalRaymie201 we all know that gemany was had a eye on ireland.Read what i said .German occupation could not have been any worse than the english .hitler was easier on the jewish pepole than the brits were on the irish nation.read this book ,british brutality in ireland written by jack o`brien a former free state soldier it may help with your education and help you with the removal of the blinkers
dathi67 1 year ago 2
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dathi67 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@dathi67
"hitler was easier on the jewish pepole than the brits were on the irish"!
I'm so stunned by the crassness, insensitivity & sheer idiocy of that comment, that I am quite literally speechless!
DonegalRaymie201 1 year ago 3
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DonegalRaymie201 1 year ago
@dathi67
That very phrase: "hitler was easier on the jewish pepole than the brits were on the irish".
Tells me you are an unparalleled moron! The total crassness, insensitivity and idiocy of that comparison is breathtaking!!
How many Jews did the Nazis slaughter like vermin? How many Irish folk in the world?
Christ, I give up!
DonegalRaymie201 1 year ago
@DonegalRaymie201 they say 6 million over lets say 7 years .then over 840 years in ireland the irish pepole that were tortured, imprisoned, murdered and deported out of there own country by the english gov .Now the way your talking tells me that you are either a institutionalized brit or a dirty free stater .your another one that dislikes the truth .If only you got a education
dathi67 1 year ago
@dathi67 Seems like you have only myth, anecdote and apocrypha on which to base such a perjorative statement on. The only consistency is the racism, bigotry, hate and bile that pours from Ireland towards the British and especially the English. As for truth, it is obvious tha truth and yourself have but a fleeting acquaintance.
MrBigfatbloke 1 year ago
@MrBigfatbloke any hatred that is directed at england is meant for the gov `the ones that persecute you from the womb to the grave`the same ones that stole your tax money the `ones that were in on the fraud with the bankers`the same pepole are now committing acts of terrorism against a unarmed nation with total disregard for international law .how many innocent pepole have to die before pepole like you wake up .these dictators that you love are not welcome in ireland.ENGLAND U R SATAN
dathi67 1 year ago 5
@dathi67 Have you been on the sauce? YOu see old boy, in Great Britain, we dont mind paying ytax because, it betters our lives. As for acts of terrorism on unarmed nations, not sure where that would be, perhpas you should explain! The United Kingodm, as the song says, is the Defender of the Faith and mother of the free! Seems like you are a little barmy old son, and like mad dogs, perhaps putting out of harms way!
MrBigfatbloke 1 year ago
@MrBigfatbloke are you so fat that you cant leave the house to see whats going on
thedochra 1 year ago