Dershowitz demonstrates why he is regarded as a pathological liar by virtually everyone in the intellectual community. That is why he relies on repeated ad-hominem attacks, such as "planet Chomsky". When you don't have facts, attacks will suffice.
His inferiority complex is on full display. Note the ending remarks where his over-the-top reference to "the greatest intellectual today" exposes his envy of Chomsky's reputation, and his own lack of credibility.
@DorianGrayism His beginning and end statements seem to be mostly fictitious. He often misused Chomskys statements ten seconds after he interrupted them. His main source in this debate is "ask Bill Clinton". He also seems reluctant to talk about Israel's actions regarding land deals and peace treaties. If you want me to go case by case then I will have to watch it again. Its been almost a month since I last saw it.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure it was actually us "Western demons" who invented both the computer the Internet, but you seem to be enjoying it... was this "evil" of us somehow?
So you're beginning to use some pretty abstract words here... can you please provide me with how exactly you're defining the word "evil" in this particular context, as well as how Westerners constantly working for what we consider to be a higher standard of living for our families is somehow something that we should apparently be ashamed of?
I'll ask you again... where are you from? I am actually very curious, and I guarantee that once you tell me I'll be able to find something in your national history pretty quickly that was also horrible. World history is essentially nothing more than a giant narrative of human beings torturing each other... no one is in a position to lecture anybody else on the "morality of their national histories."
@redsox9687 I was born and raised in Suriname. How are African Tribes different from Nation States? Lol have you gone to school? First of all Africa is a huge continent with an immense diversity of social groups. Africa is one thing and that is diverse. But No there are many Africans and South American tribes that have no concept of ownership of land and that have no history of war. Many have lived for now more than 40.000 years relatively peaceful and sustainable lives.
Where I am from there are Maroons who have fought a 200 year war against the Dutch slavemasters until the abolition of slavery they still live relatively peaceful and sustainable lives deep in the jungles, bothering no one if no one bothers them. I am actually very proud of my fore fathers...
@Rastinny Hmmm OK, so then when the Caribs of Suriname conquered and slaughtered the Arawaks of Suriname, I suppose that was all Europe's fault again, right?? Or when native tribes conquer and torture each other "you can still be proud of your history" but then I can't be proud of mine because the Europeans did horrible things also at some point in history making them apparently the "root of all evil in the world" somehow?
@redsox9687 The Carib are a people whose origins lie in the southern West Indies and the northern coast of South America Suriname did not exist at the time. The entire area was populated by several NOMADIC Amazonian Indian tribes some warrior tribes some living peaceful. Some employing sustainable methods of development some not. I am proud of my own fore fathers not of a country. Told you before Nationalism is a relic of colonialism I don't think in terms of Euro crap
@Rastinny OK, so then my point is-- how were the Europeans necessarily any worse than those "warrior tribes"? If the Spaniards conquered the Incas after the Incas themselves became an empire by conquering everyone else in western South America then what inherently would make the Spaniards anymore evil than the Incas?? Europe did not invent war, all it did was apparently manage to win it somehow...
@redsox9687 "how were the Europeans necessarily any worse than those "warrior tribes"" lol look don't let me tell you. Go and look up the list of Genocides, Wars and other Anthropogenic disasters and see who tops the list...there is your answer. But it makes me wonder have you had any history lesson in your life? What the fuck did they teach ye in school? That you can compare the slaughter the Europeans have raked on the earth with what the Incas have done? lol where did you go to school?
@Rastinny The only difference between the Europeans and the "warrior tribes" was that the Europeans were 1000 times more powerful... if the South Americans were capable of conquering and plundering Europe they would have done it just as quickly as the Europeans did it to South America... it was not an issue of "Europeans just being fundamentally more evil human beings."
@redsox9687 Your projecting your own racist suspicions on your own people. No Europeans ARE not more evil than any other people. Did you read that from me? Look it were Europeans that invented the pseudo sciences related to Racism and Eugenics. Its also fuckry! But not because there is something inherently wrong with Europeans. Europeans come up with all this shit because their most respected scientist was Darwin who lied to them that Life is hierarchically ordered and characterised by struggle
@Rastinny I was pretty sure that you referred to Westerners on a number of occasions as "demons..." It was my understanding that "demons" and "evil" are generally considered to be somewhat synonomous, no?...
@redsox9687 If people behave like demons what you want me to call them? That does not mean I believe all are inherently evil. Many Europeans who have had a bit of history sociology and development education are just as opposed to the Euro crap as I am. Like I said Europeans have the same capacity for good and evil as all other humans. Racism is a European invention It is as retarded and I despise it like I despise the rest of the shit ye came up with
@Rastinny Oh OK... well great then!! I suppose it's always comforting to hear that we can all rest assured here in the West that while you may think we're all "demons" at least you don't necessarily think we're all "EVIL demons" specifically...
@redsox9687 Hmmm give your nonchalance attitude to the slaughter and displacement of existing populations I suppose a bad one. But there are many courageous Jews who oppose the fuckry of the Zionist creatures and fight for a Human rights for both Jews and Palestinians. In the end humans look after humans and ecosystems demons look for what next to steal. There are many Europeans maybe even an increasing number that reject the horror of their past and try to look after other humans.Like humans do
@Rastinny And to come full circle on this and back to the original issue-- there are pragmatic things you can hope for and then there are outlandish things that you cannot. The Jewish people will give up sovereignty over the Western Wall and the Old City of Jerusalem only over their dead bodies (and they have a stockpile of 400 nuclear weapons and also happen to be pretty pissed off after about 1900 years or so of violent anti-semitism and genocide so I probably wouldn't test them on this).
@redsox9687 You do not have to convice me of neither your ability or your willingness to slaughter people for land. Israels entire history is one of slaughter. Even the Ancient Sons of Jacob proceeded to exterminate the existing population of what they called their promised land. lol promised land...the promised land that ye pollute with depleted uranium. Let me ask you something: do ye think depleted uranium discriminates between the Jew and the Palestinian unborn?
@Rastinny WHOA... alright so we went from Israel/Palestine to nationalist political theory, to Caribs vs. Arawaks in ancient Suriname to Chinese I-phone manufacturing and now apparently we're moving on to Darwinist evolutionary theory of all things. You anarchists really are a little crazy, aren't you...
@Rastinny Well, I've read a number of Chomsky's books and based on how you're arguing a lot of this stuff I could pretty easily see you identifying with him. And quite frankly he describes himself as a "socialist anarchist"...
@redsox9687 Look let me tell you something. ALL EUROPEAN MODELS ARE UNSUSTAINABLE. ALL! Europeans weather they are socialist, communists, capitalist, fascists ALL base their models of development on the creation of wealth through the exploitation of humans and /or ecosystems. Socialists and Communists are NO better than Capitalist. NON on the models is sustainable. I DON NOT LOOK UP TO ANY EUROPEAN MODEL OF DEVELOPMENT BECAUSE EVERY SINGLE ONE IS CRAP. So no...Chomsky won't do for me...
I base all my arguments on one simple principle: Sustainability. Its not thought by any particular European philosopher or theorists. As you must have noticed Europeans have eradicated almost every part of Primeval forest in Europe. Most of the fauna and flora is exterminated so they don't know shit. You have to learn from people who have a record of sustaining their ecosystems so I learn from Aboriginal people some in Africa and I come from South America so there is who I learn from
@redsox9687 Ah and you know the people that are devastating the Amazon Jungle where do you think they descent from? And the people who fight against them to protect the forests who do you think they are? See thats the difference between my perception and yours: You see countries 'Brazilians' I see people. Different people with different sometimes opposing desires. One desires to cut trees and sell them and another to protect the forest which is a home to the Amazonian Indians.
So No the South American descendants of Europeans do to the Amzonian forests the same as they did with the European forests the North American, Australian and South African descendants of Europeans all do the same. They are a plague. They do not know any better. They only know to exploit humans and ecosystems. They do not know how to maintain peaceful relationships between humans nor do they know how to to sustain the quality of ecosystems. They can't teach me anything.
@Rastinny So it looks like you've officially gone off the deep end here... I'd just be somewhat inclined to note the hypocrisy here, though, that you're the one throwing around words like "demons" and "plague" to describe other human beings just for thinking differently than you do and then at the same time you're trying to blame other people "not knowing how to maintain peaceful relationships..." HATEFUL PEOPLE LIKE YOU are the problem, not us.
@redsox9687 No your wrong again. Since Europeans have left Europe in 1492 they have gone around the world behaving like demons yet you again trivialize the evil they have committed by saying they were just 'thinking' different..lol Exterminating the Tasmanians is not just thinking different. Your an Idiot. A clear example of western arrogance and lack of ability to feel compassion to non western human beings. Its quite common among ye and than labelling me hateful... lol
@redsox9687 But you are right I was thought to hate evil and I do hate the demons that exterminated the Tazmanians and dozens of American Indian tribes in North America. I hate the creatures that gave blankets and hankerchiefs with small pox to American Indians slaughtering men women and children.
@666plb The Aboriginal Tasmanians or Parlevar were the Indigenous people of the island state of Tasmania, Australia. Before British colonisation in 1803, there were an estimated 3,000–15,000 Parlevar. They men women and children were exterminated by the same bloodthirsty demons that descended from Europe and exterminated millions more Aboriginal peoples in Africa, South America and North America. The same demons that slaughtered more than 100.000.000 humans in 2 world wars among them selves
@Rastinny Thirdly, as far as we've taught you "how NOT to develop," if you choose to shun everything Western then the first step would be to give away your computer, internet, television set, telephone, radio, car, and never fly on an airplane again... good luck with all that. I guess your canoes worked pretty well for a few millenia, why not go back?....
@redsox9687 when I said they can't teach me anything I referred to Sustainability. Europeans weather the ones colonizing North America, South Africa or Australia are the most serious threat to Earth and its ecosystems. You know that almost every water source in America is under some advisory for pollution since you creatures arrived there. Ye slaughtered the American Indian stewards of American Ecosystems and ye made a filth mess like ye did everywhere else.
@redsox9687 Now you ask why do I use computers and internet? Can you not see it, read it? To raise awareness about the horror. I use these instruments to communicate about the system to exchange ideas about how to get to a better world. Thats why I use them I think if you going to use these tools let it be for a good cause...I'm not perfect but I do my best.
@redsox9687 well thats maybe not completely true. They can teach me how NOT to develop. Which values are devastating to both humanity and ecosystems. We must learn from the wrongs of all our human brothers and also the good. Amish Europeans for example seem to manage living ecologically quite sustainable lifestyles within Western Societies.
@redsox9687 A model based on the principle of sustainability. We need to learn how to sustain life including our own life while also protecting biodiversity and the quality of our ecosystems without which non of us can live. Sustainable (not necessary equal) relationships among humans and between humans and ecosystems. That's what I propose in short
I learned that life is a sustainable system in which even the tiniest part has a vital role to play in the sustainability of the entire system. Darwins followers thought that progress is the result of competition and wealth creation through profit and the exploitation of humans and ecosystems. Other have thought that profit does not exist. That we can sustainably cooperate and make use of what is in our ecosystems to sustain LIFE and the same ecosystems not to sustain some people lust for luxury
@Rastinny Hmm OK, well, I believe Darwin himself was actually just a scientist whose research was focused on the physical evolution of species via natural selection... What you're referring to here is the pretty obscure "Social Darwinist" movement that tried to extend his theory of "survival of the fittest" to sociology, and it was not even Darwin himself just a handful of crazy 19th Century university professors. Our most respected scientist is Einstein, not Darwin...
@redsox9687 You must have never read a word of Darwin... Darwin never had a theory of 'survival of the fittest' he had a theory of natural selection. The term survival of the fittest was first coined by Herbert Spencer. Yet it was Darwin who believed that natural life was characterised by Hierarchy and Competition.
@Rastinny Right, read my post again... I noted specifically that Darwin's research was only on natural selection (which happens to have been proven true pretty thoroughly by fossil records) and that the applications of the "survival of the fittest" concept was only applied to sociologic theory after Darwin was gone by university professors (referring to Spencer).
Back to Wikipedia (another one of those demonic Western inventions):
@redsox9687 " the "survival of the fittest" concept was only applied to sociologic theory after Darwin was gone" No Darwin actually borrowed the term from Spencer... If you had read Darwin you would have found Darwin propagated his own ideas about the order of humans and their development. He predicted 'more civilised races (whites) to replace what he considered less civilised races (Aboriginals). You should do your home work
@Rastinny Secondly, if you don't realize the sheer simple ignorance of what appears to be virtually your entire worldview that "some human beings are demons and the rest are completely angels, and that all the evil in the world happens just because of the evil demons" then quite frankly you're a complete idiot.
However there is a list Wars and Anthropogenic disasters on Wikipedia also look at the list of Genocides and tell me on which place you can find anything about Carib or Caribbean people. Then look at the people who slaughtered most people on earth, who has the most comprehensive history of slaughter. When your finished go and look which peoples consumption patterns and models of development comprise the most serious threat to the earth and its ecosystems then get back to me...
Look the evidence of the destruction that Europeans have raked on not only humans but humans and ecosystems is overwhelming and still expanding. We are only now finding out the full scale of devastation ye have raked on the world ecosystems. Do you know that since you demons arrived in the America every single water source on that part of the continent is under some form of advisory for pollution... Ye and your models of development comprise the most serious threat to life on earth it self.
@Rastinny Yes, and the US and Europe are progressively moving towards green energy development... the biggest threat to the global environment now is China, India, and the rest of the "developing world" that's building on average one new coal-fired power plant every week while simultaneously torpedoing Western efforts to organize any global response to climate change whatsoever, using the argument that "you Westerners got to screw up the planet for 100 years, so now it's our turn..."
@redsox9687 lol is it now? really? We should really blame the 11year old Chinese children who are getting nerve damage cleaning iphone screens... Tell me something is the production demand or supply led? And who demands cheap Iphones from China? Anyway China is only applying the same unsustainable models that Europeans through institutions as the World Bank and IMF have pushed sometimes even enforced for decades. However have you followed the last 2 UN Climate conf. in Copenhagen and Cancun?
@Rastinny OK, so then if they weren't better off earning 40 cents/hr manufacturing I-phones than they were with the next best alternative of making 30 cents/hr still working on rice paddies then why would they be doing it exactly? Is someone holding a gun to their head forcing them to manufacture I-phones?? No.
@Rastinny And my fundamental point in this is that if somehow the Incas (or any other natives) were somehow by some fluke of history the ones with the means to conquer the Europeans and not vice versa, they would have done it and each of us would be on the complete opposite side of this argument right now. How surprising is it really that an American is saying what I'm saying and a native South American is saying what you are? We are all human beings driven by the exact same forces...
@redsox9687 You fundamental point is fundamentally wrong. Yes all humans have the same potential for good and evil but the evil in todays world can not be traced to all humans. Humans all have the same needs but not the same desires. The evil Europeans have brought in this world is not the result of having white skin but because their stubborn application and propagation of Models they know are unsustainable but allow them luxuries they do not want to give up. Some Europeans are waking up though
@redsox9687 by the way how does your fundamental point relate to this argument anyway? If Inca's had raked the slaughter Europeans had raked or invaded lands and slaughtered populations they would be just as wrong as Europeans and Zionists. The principle is the same for everybody. Acquisition of territories by war is inadmissible end of story. Israel needs to withdraw from Jerusalem. It is simple international law that needs to be enforced.
Dude,you could easily instill doubt in peoples mind with your argument but the moment you refer to Sharon as "great man of peace" even a dog at that point knows you dont mean any word you ever say
Dershowitz is a fraud as exposed by Norman Finkelstein. But overall watching this reminds me that the debate fell into the old traps. Over-complicating the issue, obfuscation and dwelling on minutiae and side-issues. As Finkelstein says it's not complex, it's not difficult and it's not controversial. The occupation is illegal, the wall is illegal, the settlements are illegal, East Jerusalem belongs to the Palestinians. That's the law. The solution is simple. The UN gets tough with Israel.
Unfortunately, Israel has drank too much terrorist Koolaid. . .Zionists like Dershowitz actually believe in Orwellian logic like "pre-emptively killing hundreds of Palestians" makes Shimon Peres a peace loving man because of thousands of imagined deaths prevented. Disinterested parties just see abject violence from a hostile occupation force. Right or wrong, the seeing of Israel bulldozing Palestian houses as retribution will never allow me to feel any sympathy for them (Israel).
If Israel really seeks peace, it should work hard to dismantle the settlements, allow East Jerusalem to be worthy of being a capital, allow Palestine all they need to be a true sovereign country, and stop suffocating them as they do now. If Palestine really seeks peace, they must not give Israel excuses: no bombings, no rockets. And the international community, especially the US must keep them, especially Israel, to those standards.
While both seem to envision a similar idea, in my opinion mr Dershowitz seems to buy into an "Israeli" agenda (backed by at least the US), while mr Chomsky recognizes the flaws, though his passion may be too much at times. It seems there's a public face (to us, the Israeli face) and a more concealed one, though that one is accessible enough.
Israel seems not intent on a two-state solution, but one their state, and the scraps to Palestine. Judging by the settlements, those scraps only get less.
Durshewitz considers sharon a man thats capable of bringing peace to the world. WTH, what does this even mean?? This guy sounds so populistic and I m not taking his followers as bad people. They're simply deceived by his rhetoric (and bias) but this guy is seriously undistinguishable from a populist who just uses empty slogans/mantras and things of that sort.
DERSHOWTIZ IS A CLASS A ACT EVEN THOUGH I DON'T AGREE WITH HIM ALL THE TIME. BUT CHOMSKY IS A SHAMELESS ANTI HUMAN RIGHTS IN EFFECT. HE LIES, HE IS SELECTIVE, HE DOES NOT APPLY REALITY. INDEED CHOMSKY IS IRRELEVANT!
Id actually have respect for Alan Dershowitz if he would just come out and say: "jews and israel matter more than any one or any thing else, and the rest of the world comes in a distant second to the needs of jews and israel"
Hey Alan , at least just have the GUTS to be direct & honest ..no one respects a self-serving duplicitous coward......
Ultimately they do not disagree what is needed for peace. They only dispute where the two sides are in getting there.
The most salient point Dershowtiz brought up was the Pal need to give up on the demand of "Right of Return." Chomsky claims the Palestinians have given it up and accepted a pragmatic symbolic right of return. If that is true, I am happy to hear it but I haven't seen Pal. leaders say this.
@JeffKlives I agree with you, the discussion was supposed to be "whats to be done" not, "who's to blame", but neither speaker was really willing to stay on this (and neither was the audience). I think Dershowitz paints too rosy a picture of the Israel's willingness to compromise because its unlikely Barak could actually have delivered on his promises. For a look at a similar discussion among palestinians see youtube watch?v=obKbBSCemmo
Fast forward from this debate to today and you see how flawed Dershowitz's assessment was in the wake of the Gaza carpet bombing by the Israeli military, and the hard line Israel has taken in continued settlement development in Palestinian territory; in spite of international outrage, including the U.S. How can there be peace if Israel keeps taking land and expanding it's borders?
i love how durschawitz runs to chomsky after to shake his hand ...
i dont care you who agree with, i dont like ppl who are fake, and that was fake as hell...its obvious neither like the other... while durschawitz may be a better speaker, chomsky was clearly more factual and rested his arguments on scholarship
It's quite a nerving experience to look back at Chomsky's remarks from the past and see how accurately they have turned out later in the future with regards to many issues including his reaction to 9/11. If not atheist many would deem him a prophet by now. But it's certainly unique to see his opponents argue for flawed proposals as is recently being witness when Israel rejects Obama's basis for peace plans based on 1967 borders. Once again Chomsky revelations continue to scare me.
Chomsky's sources are just "A BOOK WRITTEN BY A, says X".When people -who were there- say X is false. It's Y. A wasn't there. If Chomsky has to rely on a book by somebody that wasn't there, against the evidence of somebody that was, and what those that were there have said, then it's not connected to reality. It'd be nice if Dershowitz had made the discussion with Clintona formal interview in his book. But even so
It is a crime to even compare this man to Chomsky, let alone put Chomsky in the same panel with him. At best, Mr Dershowitz comes close to an absurd character of comical relief from a Hollywood film and a buffoonish propaganda tool for certain specific Israeli interest groups
Dershowitz would be better suited to lecturing to people wanting to be told what to think not shown how he thinks. At no point did he seem anything other than rude and embarrassed by being shown as a liar and fake.
Here is Alan Dershowitz the Zionist clown arguing that torture should be legalized:
"The treaties against all forms of torture must begin to recognize differences in degree among varying forms of rough interrogation, ranging from trickery and humiliation, on the one hand, to lethal torture on the other."
Anyone who supports this monster is clearly morally degenerate.
@ThePrideOfIsrael Will you stop spreading the zionists comments in every page? people are not interested in what the zionists like you, Dershowitz or the terrorist state of israel say, But we wanna listen to the facts that is said by the likes of the professor Chomsky, UN, HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH, and AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL. so stop flooding with your zionist propaganda you idiot !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No - ANTI-ZIONISM is logical - every non-Jew in Palestine has no right of self determination, every Jew anywhere in the world has automatic statehood.
Most Christian Palestinians had to leave after 1948, something they never once did before since Jesus Christ.
Zionism is wrong - plain and simple. If bad people exist - you are one of them. I hope you aren't, and have potential for developing yourself and becoming like the rest of the world - who all voted Zionism to be racism
Dershowitz keep using buzz-phrases like "miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity," "peace dividend," "man of peace," etc., but doesn't seem to have much substance behind them.
Is Dershowitz campaigning? Just because you repeat something over and over doesn't make it true...only a crazy person could claim - after reading only some of the available documents of the past 60 years - that Israelian governments have been peace-seeking (well, okay, if you define peace as "we get it our way", then yes, they have...).
Dershowitz is a lawyer for sale and will lie for his patrons. But the difference is, he believes his lies to be truths. He is a case study for psychoanalyst and psychiatrist alike.
Fukkin aliens need to come & start invading Earth ASAP. Only something of that scale has the chance to unite our race (mutual enemy). I am so ashamed to be human sometimes. Why am I not a bird?! :(
The Israel/Palestine conflict is inflamed by religious fanaticism on both sides, but in essence, it's a conflict between colonizers and colonized, and religion isn't the main issue.
@sariBarhum All part of the plan, for the last 60 years: Feign a love for peace and a Palestinian state in the media, but never intend to grant anything. Frankly, I've given up hope.
@BANGBANGBANGBBANG AND whats so wrong with being a Zionist? Strike a chord with you perhaps? There is only one truth. Israel is the land of the Jews, as custodians of the most religious place on earth. Maybe you would prefer it as an Arab state. It is however, Israel and not Palestine. I know the pain you feel, but that's the truth. Unless you want to invade Israel, on the web at least. Ha ha.
@eddied111 the palestinians and jews are equally stupid religious twats. if it werent for religion they would be able to live together in peace or theyd at least be able to settle a simple land dispute, but no..... everybody has to own jerusalem because its "sacred".
@BANGBANGBANGBBANG Errr, well I agree with you "if it was that simple". Perhaps if certain normal people were involved it would work. Jerusalem is a contentious issue. Why not let the religious sites be curated by a joint effort between Jewish, Arab and Christian scholars. Let the outer towns be equally divided, that is my solution. Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. But the Palestinians should have the right to live there in equal numbers, AS LONG AS THEY STOP MURDERING JEWS.
@eddied111 Jerusalem is NOT a contentious issue for the WORLD OUTSIDE THE US AND ISRAEL. Nobody asked for your or any 'imaginative' solution. The solution is already there in the law: To ENFORCE INTERNATIONAL LAW AND THE INTERNATIONAL CONSENSUS. No country can legally acquire land by war. Israel illegally occupies east Jerusalem and needs to leave. That is the law. The solution is to uphold the law and to enforce the law. That is also the expressed will of the international community.
where are you from?? Should Americans all just go back to Europe and return our land back to the Indians and Mexico who we defeated in war?... like it or not this is the real world.
@redsox9687 of course United Nations Security Council Resolution 242 clearly states the principle that it is the "inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war". Is is so difficult to understand that slaughtering humans to steal their land is has and always be immoral? How come you even ask me the question? Ye left Europe and came to America and slaughtered people who never did you anything. No American Indians came to Europe to bother ye! wtf is wrong with you?
@redsox9687 What fucking war? Did Indians go to Europe to attack ye? Ye left Europe travelled miles to the New World and went into their land to seek war with people who probably didn't even know you creatures existed out side of the realms of hell. Ye have been a plague for not only the American Indians but you should know the absolute disgrace of colonies you maintain on places like Hawai and Diego Garcia. Its sickning
Look it is no surprise that the most staunch supporters of Israel colony are the colonisers of North America. If you condemn stealing in one place you also have to condemn your own existence. Both Israel and the USA are created to the slaughter and displacement of humans in far away places humans who did not seek contact or war with Europeans. Europeans Christians and Jews colonised displaced and slaughtered existing populations to steal their land ye have done it everywhere. It is still wrong
And even though ye have an arsenal of demonic weapons to slaughter; People will continue telling ye it is wrong. Ye can slaughter how much you like, people will always despise ye even people in your own societies are ashamed and disgraced by your inhumanity. Ye are a plague a nakba a disaster a pestilence that has engulfed the world since 1492
@Rastinny No one is perfect and every nation has significant parts of its history that its people are not particularly proud of... are you saying that 300 years later if a disgruntled descendent of the Cherokee were to start rocketing my house I wouldn't have the right to defend myself and my family?
@redsox9687 You will have just as much right as your fore parents had when they came and slaughtered. However I am sure you would have enough weapons and blood thirsty crack heads to do the job and slaughter even more Indians. But might does not make right. It does allow the continuation of murder and injustice. When ye found out ye were wrong to slaughter Indians you should have apologised and reinstated them and asked them weather you can stay.
They could have said let by gone be by gone's and ye could have started something new. But it's not uncommon for Europeans to steal and murder apologize and also decide how much of what is stolen they will reimburse. Ye can do that because of the demonic weapons and the bloodthirsty demons ye pay to slaughter for you. It is was and never will be right but it is possible. It happens all the time. What is funny is that ye wonder why people gladly blow their bodies apart to kill some of you demons
@redsox9687 And NO NOT every nation has significant parts of history that they are not proud of. MOST people do not go to far away places to slaughter others, or to kidnap people to enslave murder and torture to death on plantations. But then I'm not a nationalist I believe that nation states ALL Nations states and the rediculous notion of nationalism remain a relic from colonialism. Another pest we have been saddled up with by the same European creatures that left Europe in 1492
@Rastinny And by the way as long as there have been separate groups of people governing themselves via what they've considered to be sovereign political entities there have been "nations"... it's not exactly just some "crazy concept that the evil Europeans dreampt up 500 years ago for no particular good reason."
@redsox9687 You are partly right the Europeans instituted the concept of souvereign nation states and it limitations on human freedom of movement with a particular purpose. It being to facilitate the exploitation of then Africa without slaughtering too much of their fellow Europeans in the process. However the institute is just as unsustainable and just as detrimental to both humans and ecosystems as the rest of their inventions.
@Rastinny Africa prior to the Europeans showing up was not exactly "united and living peacefully..." it consisted of hundreds of independent tribes strewn across the continent many of whom had been fighting each other since the beginning of recorded history... How were these "tribes" different from "nations?"
@Rastinny Additionally, if you're looking for an example of "separate and totally nonsensical nations existing," the best example would be the Arab world whose modern borders were based on the completely arbitrary lines drawn by the English and French as part of the Sykes-Picot Treaty. Despite the Arabs knowing this full-well, though, once the Europeans were gone why did the movement for Arab unity under Nasser then fail so completely if "nationalism isn't sustainable?"
@redsox9687 if you didn't know most of the lines drawn over the globe have been facilitated by Europeans. That Africans, Arabs or other people accept these lines does not make the lines a good invention. It just means that they accept and perpetuate the stupidity the retarded and exploitative models of development Europeans have thought them.
@Rastinny Prior to the Europeans showing up the Africans fought each other just as much as anyone else on the planet and it was generally over land and resources as it was everywhere else.
Wikipedia: "List_of_conflicts_in_Africa"
The fundamental question to be asking at this point, though, would be that if nationalism is apparently so "stupid and retarded" as I believe you put it, then what exactly has been sustaining it and how exactly do you envision it ending?
@goc1973 okay, so the words of shimon peres and bill clinton mean absolutely nothing but when "Ron Poondok" (whoever the fuck that is) says something, it's automatically true?
its hard for many to be unbiased. its not for me. im canadian, non israeli, non-palastinian, pro-humanitarian. chomsky clearly won the debate. reason being it appeared he didn`t have to lie or twist facts. he didn`t have to try and belittle planet dershowitz.. dershowitz showed signs of a man with little intelligence and alot of israeli nationalism clouding his perceptions. he should not be teaching anywhere and should be fired for if nothing else INCOMPETENCE.
character. I was never a big fan of Dr Chomsky but after listening to him and reading his books I realized I didn't know anything about him. I do now. Brilliant. Dershowitz ? Ahhh. Not so much
Noam Chomsky was the better debater. He was clear and factual, collected and comfortable. Prof Dershowitz was uncomfortable and seemed ready for a shouting match that Dr Chomsky wasn't going to give him. He was also dancing the childish ad hom line with the "Planet Chomsky" remarks and dropping "professor" when addressing Professor Chomsky. I fully expected Prof Dershowitz to finally retort "oh yeah!" This debate wasn't even close. Prof Dershowitz is a very strange, angry and uncomfortable ch
(do you really think such biased revisionism lends anything beneficial to your cause? Or are you a tactless supporter of Chomsky unwisely setting up a strawman? Either way, please work on it a bit)
Dershowitz demonstrates why he is regarded as a pathological liar by virtually everyone in the intellectual community. That is why he relies on repeated ad-hominem attacks, such as "planet Chomsky". When you don't have facts, attacks will suffice.
His inferiority complex is on full display. Note the ending remarks where his over-the-top reference to "the greatest intellectual today" exposes his envy of Chomsky's reputation, and his own lack of credibility.
Dershowitz is a clown. Nothing more.
gretschjazzer 2 weeks ago 3
The only thing Chomsky could have done to embarrass Dershowitz more would have been to bring up his defense of OJ Simpson
pine829 4 weeks ago in playlist Chomsky and Dershowitz debate Israel and Palestine
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MenOfLetters 1 month ago
dershowitz is a fag
Zzzeem 1 month ago
Dershowits lies so pathologically it is pathetic. He is a disgrace to those who support Israel.
ZombiBuddy 2 months ago
@ZombiBuddy Where did he lie?
DorianGrayism 1 month ago
@DorianGrayism His beginning and end statements seem to be mostly fictitious. He often misused Chomskys statements ten seconds after he interrupted them. His main source in this debate is "ask Bill Clinton". He also seems reluctant to talk about Israel's actions regarding land deals and peace treaties. If you want me to go case by case then I will have to watch it again. Its been almost a month since I last saw it.
ZombiBuddy 1 month ago 6
speaking of terrorism: irgun and stern gang.
nystagmus 3 months ago
We can only check Chomsky's sources because Dersh doesnt give any .
TheWilderwun 3 months ago 19
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I'll repeat the question: do ye think depleted uranium discriminates between the Jewish and the Palestinian unborn?
Rastinny 4 months ago
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redsox9687 4 months ago
Are we killing them? No... It is not our fault that some of those people are apparently crazy enough to try to kill themselves over an I-phone.
redsox9687 4 months ago
Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure it was actually us "Western demons" who invented both the computer the Internet, but you seem to be enjoying it... was this "evil" of us somehow?
redsox9687 4 months ago
So you're beginning to use some pretty abstract words here... can you please provide me with how exactly you're defining the word "evil" in this particular context, as well as how Westerners constantly working for what we consider to be a higher standard of living for our families is somehow something that we should apparently be ashamed of?
redsox9687 4 months ago
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redsox9687 4 months ago
I'll ask you again... where are you from? I am actually very curious, and I guarantee that once you tell me I'll be able to find something in your national history pretty quickly that was also horrible. World history is essentially nothing more than a giant narrative of human beings torturing each other... no one is in a position to lecture anybody else on the "morality of their national histories."
redsox9687 4 months ago
@redsox9687 I was born and raised in Suriname. How are African Tribes different from Nation States? Lol have you gone to school? First of all Africa is a huge continent with an immense diversity of social groups. Africa is one thing and that is diverse. But No there are many Africans and South American tribes that have no concept of ownership of land and that have no history of war. Many have lived for now more than 40.000 years relatively peaceful and sustainable lives.
Rastinny 4 months ago
Where I am from there are Maroons who have fought a 200 year war against the Dutch slavemasters until the abolition of slavery they still live relatively peaceful and sustainable lives deep in the jungles, bothering no one if no one bothers them. I am actually very proud of my fore fathers...
Rastinny 4 months ago
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redsox9687 4 months ago
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redsox9687 4 months ago
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@Rastinny Hmmm OK, so then when the Caribs of Suriname conquered and slaughtered the Arawaks of Suriname, I suppose that was all Europe's fault again, right?? Or when native tribes conquer and torture each other "you can still be proud of your history" but then I can't be proud of mine because the Europeans did horrible things also at some point in history making them apparently the "root of all evil in the world" somehow?
redsox9687 4 months ago
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Rastinny 4 months ago
@redsox9687 The Carib are a people whose origins lie in the southern West Indies and the northern coast of South America Suriname did not exist at the time. The entire area was populated by several NOMADIC Amazonian Indian tribes some warrior tribes some living peaceful. Some employing sustainable methods of development some not. I am proud of my own fore fathers not of a country. Told you before Nationalism is a relic of colonialism I don't think in terms of Euro crap
Rastinny 4 months ago
@Rastinny OK, so then my point is-- how were the Europeans necessarily any worse than those "warrior tribes"? If the Spaniards conquered the Incas after the Incas themselves became an empire by conquering everyone else in western South America then what inherently would make the Spaniards anymore evil than the Incas?? Europe did not invent war, all it did was apparently manage to win it somehow...
redsox9687 4 months ago
@redsox9687 "how were the Europeans necessarily any worse than those "warrior tribes"" lol look don't let me tell you. Go and look up the list of Genocides, Wars and other Anthropogenic disasters and see who tops the list...there is your answer. But it makes me wonder have you had any history lesson in your life? What the fuck did they teach ye in school? That you can compare the slaughter the Europeans have raked on the earth with what the Incas have done? lol where did you go to school?
Rastinny 4 months ago
@Rastinny The only difference between the Europeans and the "warrior tribes" was that the Europeans were 1000 times more powerful... if the South Americans were capable of conquering and plundering Europe they would have done it just as quickly as the Europeans did it to South America... it was not an issue of "Europeans just being fundamentally more evil human beings."
redsox9687 4 months ago
@redsox9687 Your projecting your own racist suspicions on your own people. No Europeans ARE not more evil than any other people. Did you read that from me? Look it were Europeans that invented the pseudo sciences related to Racism and Eugenics. Its also fuckry! But not because there is something inherently wrong with Europeans. Europeans come up with all this shit because their most respected scientist was Darwin who lied to them that Life is hierarchically ordered and characterised by struggle
Rastinny 4 months ago
@Rastinny I was pretty sure that you referred to Westerners on a number of occasions as "demons..." It was my understanding that "demons" and "evil" are generally considered to be somewhat synonomous, no?...
redsox9687 4 months ago
@redsox9687 If people behave like demons what you want me to call them? That does not mean I believe all are inherently evil. Many Europeans who have had a bit of history sociology and development education are just as opposed to the Euro crap as I am. Like I said Europeans have the same capacity for good and evil as all other humans. Racism is a European invention It is as retarded and I despise it like I despise the rest of the shit ye came up with
Rastinny 4 months ago
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redsox9687 4 months ago
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@Rastinny Oh OK... well great then!! I suppose it's always comforting to hear that we can all rest assured here in the West that while you may think we're all "demons" at least you don't necessarily think we're all "EVIL demons" specifically...
Am I a good demon or a bad demon??
redsox9687 4 months ago
@redsox9687 Hmmm give your nonchalance attitude to the slaughter and displacement of existing populations I suppose a bad one. But there are many courageous Jews who oppose the fuckry of the Zionist creatures and fight for a Human rights for both Jews and Palestinians. In the end humans look after humans and ecosystems demons look for what next to steal. There are many Europeans maybe even an increasing number that reject the horror of their past and try to look after other humans.Like humans do
Rastinny 4 months ago
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redsox9687 4 months ago
@Rastinny And to come full circle on this and back to the original issue-- there are pragmatic things you can hope for and then there are outlandish things that you cannot. The Jewish people will give up sovereignty over the Western Wall and the Old City of Jerusalem only over their dead bodies (and they have a stockpile of 400 nuclear weapons and also happen to be pretty pissed off after about 1900 years or so of violent anti-semitism and genocide so I probably wouldn't test them on this).
redsox9687 4 months ago
@redsox9687 You do not have to convice me of neither your ability or your willingness to slaughter people for land. Israels entire history is one of slaughter. Even the Ancient Sons of Jacob proceeded to exterminate the existing population of what they called their promised land. lol promised land...the promised land that ye pollute with depleted uranium. Let me ask you something: do ye think depleted uranium discriminates between the Jew and the Palestinian unborn?
Rastinny 4 months ago
@Rastinny WHOA... alright so we went from Israel/Palestine to nationalist political theory, to Caribs vs. Arawaks in ancient Suriname to Chinese I-phone manufacturing and now apparently we're moving on to Darwinist evolutionary theory of all things. You anarchists really are a little crazy, aren't you...
redsox9687 4 months ago
@redsox9687 Are you calling me an Anarchist? Do you know anything about anarchists?
Rastinny 4 months ago
@Rastinny Well, I've read a number of Chomsky's books and based on how you're arguing a lot of this stuff I could pretty easily see you identifying with him. And quite frankly he describes himself as a "socialist anarchist"...
redsox9687 4 months ago
@redsox9687 Look let me tell you something. ALL EUROPEAN MODELS ARE UNSUSTAINABLE. ALL! Europeans weather they are socialist, communists, capitalist, fascists ALL base their models of development on the creation of wealth through the exploitation of humans and /or ecosystems. Socialists and Communists are NO better than Capitalist. NON on the models is sustainable. I DON NOT LOOK UP TO ANY EUROPEAN MODEL OF DEVELOPMENT BECAUSE EVERY SINGLE ONE IS CRAP. So no...Chomsky won't do for me...
Rastinny 4 months ago
I base all my arguments on one simple principle: Sustainability. Its not thought by any particular European philosopher or theorists. As you must have noticed Europeans have eradicated almost every part of Primeval forest in Europe. Most of the fauna and flora is exterminated so they don't know shit. You have to learn from people who have a record of sustaining their ecosystems so I learn from Aboriginal people some in Africa and I come from South America so there is who I learn from
Rastinny 4 months ago
@Rastinny Yeah, those Brazilians in South America are really doing great things for the Amazon I've heard... how long until it's gone... ten years?
redsox9687 4 months ago
@redsox9687 Ah and you know the people that are devastating the Amazon Jungle where do you think they descent from? And the people who fight against them to protect the forests who do you think they are? See thats the difference between my perception and yours: You see countries 'Brazilians' I see people. Different people with different sometimes opposing desires. One desires to cut trees and sell them and another to protect the forest which is a home to the Amazonian Indians.
Rastinny 4 months ago
@redsox9687 do you realize you won't be alive for long after the Amazon jungle disappears?
Rastinny 4 months ago
So No the South American descendants of Europeans do to the Amzonian forests the same as they did with the European forests the North American, Australian and South African descendants of Europeans all do the same. They are a plague. They do not know any better. They only know to exploit humans and ecosystems. They do not know how to maintain peaceful relationships between humans nor do they know how to to sustain the quality of ecosystems. They can't teach me anything.
Rastinny 4 months ago
@Rastinny So it looks like you've officially gone off the deep end here... I'd just be somewhat inclined to note the hypocrisy here, though, that you're the one throwing around words like "demons" and "plague" to describe other human beings just for thinking differently than you do and then at the same time you're trying to blame other people "not knowing how to maintain peaceful relationships..." HATEFUL PEOPLE LIKE YOU are the problem, not us.
redsox9687 4 months ago
@redsox9687 No your wrong again. Since Europeans have left Europe in 1492 they have gone around the world behaving like demons yet you again trivialize the evil they have committed by saying they were just 'thinking' different..lol Exterminating the Tasmanians is not just thinking different. Your an Idiot. A clear example of western arrogance and lack of ability to feel compassion to non western human beings. Its quite common among ye and than labelling me hateful... lol
Rastinny 4 months ago
@redsox9687 But you are right I was thought to hate evil and I do hate the demons that exterminated the Tazmanians and dozens of American Indian tribes in North America. I hate the creatures that gave blankets and hankerchiefs with small pox to American Indians slaughtering men women and children.
Rastinny 4 months ago
@Rastinny Which Tazmanians (sic) were exterminated?
666plb 2 months ago
@666plb The Aboriginal Tasmanians or Parlevar were the Indigenous people of the island state of Tasmania, Australia. Before British colonisation in 1803, there were an estimated 3,000–15,000 Parlevar. They men women and children were exterminated by the same bloodthirsty demons that descended from Europe and exterminated millions more Aboriginal peoples in Africa, South America and North America. The same demons that slaughtered more than 100.000.000 humans in 2 world wars among them selves
Rastinny 2 months ago
@Rastinny Thirdly, as far as we've taught you "how NOT to develop," if you choose to shun everything Western then the first step would be to give away your computer, internet, television set, telephone, radio, car, and never fly on an airplane again... good luck with all that. I guess your canoes worked pretty well for a few millenia, why not go back?....
redsox9687 4 months ago
@redsox9687 when I said they can't teach me anything I referred to Sustainability. Europeans weather the ones colonizing North America, South Africa or Australia are the most serious threat to Earth and its ecosystems. You know that almost every water source in America is under some advisory for pollution since you creatures arrived there. Ye slaughtered the American Indian stewards of American Ecosystems and ye made a filth mess like ye did everywhere else.
Rastinny 4 months ago
@redsox9687 Now you ask why do I use computers and internet? Can you not see it, read it? To raise awareness about the horror. I use these instruments to communicate about the system to exchange ideas about how to get to a better world. Thats why I use them I think if you going to use these tools let it be for a good cause...I'm not perfect but I do my best.
Rastinny 4 months ago
@redsox9687 well thats maybe not completely true. They can teach me how NOT to develop. Which values are devastating to both humanity and ecosystems. We must learn from the wrongs of all our human brothers and also the good. Amish Europeans for example seem to manage living ecologically quite sustainable lifestyles within Western Societies.
Rastinny 4 months ago
Brothers and sisters...
Rastinny 4 months ago
@Rastinny And fourthly (and finally)... you can then proceed to kiss my Western ass.
God Bless
redsox9687 4 months ago
@Rastinny So what model would you propose then? You've actually gotten me very curious...
redsox9687 4 months ago
@redsox9687 A model based on the principle of sustainability. We need to learn how to sustain life including our own life while also protecting biodiversity and the quality of our ecosystems without which non of us can live. Sustainable (not necessary equal) relationships among humans and between humans and ecosystems. That's what I propose in short
Rastinny 4 months ago
I learned that life is a sustainable system in which even the tiniest part has a vital role to play in the sustainability of the entire system. Darwins followers thought that progress is the result of competition and wealth creation through profit and the exploitation of humans and ecosystems. Other have thought that profit does not exist. That we can sustainably cooperate and make use of what is in our ecosystems to sustain LIFE and the same ecosystems not to sustain some people lust for luxury
Rastinny 4 months ago
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redsox9687 4 months ago
@Rastinny Hmm OK, well, I believe Darwin himself was actually just a scientist whose research was focused on the physical evolution of species via natural selection... What you're referring to here is the pretty obscure "Social Darwinist" movement that tried to extend his theory of "survival of the fittest" to sociology, and it was not even Darwin himself just a handful of crazy 19th Century university professors. Our most respected scientist is Einstein, not Darwin...
redsox9687 4 months ago
@redsox9687 You must have never read a word of Darwin... Darwin never had a theory of 'survival of the fittest' he had a theory of natural selection. The term survival of the fittest was first coined by Herbert Spencer. Yet it was Darwin who believed that natural life was characterised by Hierarchy and Competition.
Rastinny 4 months ago
@Rastinny Right, read my post again... I noted specifically that Darwin's research was only on natural selection (which happens to have been proven true pretty thoroughly by fossil records) and that the applications of the "survival of the fittest" concept was only applied to sociologic theory after Darwin was gone by university professors (referring to Spencer).
Back to Wikipedia (another one of those demonic Western inventions):
Wikipedia: Charles_Darwin
Wikipedia: Herbert_Spencer
redsox9687 4 months ago
@redsox9687 " the "survival of the fittest" concept was only applied to sociologic theory after Darwin was gone" No Darwin actually borrowed the term from Spencer... If you had read Darwin you would have found Darwin propagated his own ideas about the order of humans and their development. He predicted 'more civilised races (whites) to replace what he considered less civilised races (Aboriginals). You should do your home work
Rastinny 4 months ago
@Rastinny Secondly, if you don't realize the sheer simple ignorance of what appears to be virtually your entire worldview that "some human beings are demons and the rest are completely angels, and that all the evil in the world happens just because of the evil demons" then quite frankly you're a complete idiot.
redsox9687 4 months ago
However there is a list Wars and Anthropogenic disasters on Wikipedia also look at the list of Genocides and tell me on which place you can find anything about Carib or Caribbean people. Then look at the people who slaughtered most people on earth, who has the most comprehensive history of slaughter. When your finished go and look which peoples consumption patterns and models of development comprise the most serious threat to the earth and its ecosystems then get back to me...
Rastinny 4 months ago
Look the evidence of the destruction that Europeans have raked on not only humans but humans and ecosystems is overwhelming and still expanding. We are only now finding out the full scale of devastation ye have raked on the world ecosystems. Do you know that since you demons arrived in the America every single water source on that part of the continent is under some form of advisory for pollution... Ye and your models of development comprise the most serious threat to life on earth it self.
Rastinny 4 months ago
@Rastinny Yes, and the US and Europe are progressively moving towards green energy development... the biggest threat to the global environment now is China, India, and the rest of the "developing world" that's building on average one new coal-fired power plant every week while simultaneously torpedoing Western efforts to organize any global response to climate change whatsoever, using the argument that "you Westerners got to screw up the planet for 100 years, so now it's our turn..."
redsox9687 4 months ago
@redsox9687 lol is it now? really? We should really blame the 11year old Chinese children who are getting nerve damage cleaning iphone screens... Tell me something is the production demand or supply led? And who demands cheap Iphones from China? Anyway China is only applying the same unsustainable models that Europeans through institutions as the World Bank and IMF have pushed sometimes even enforced for decades. However have you followed the last 2 UN Climate conf. in Copenhagen and Cancun?
Rastinny 4 months ago
@Rastinny OK, so then if they weren't better off earning 40 cents/hr manufacturing I-phones than they were with the next best alternative of making 30 cents/hr still working on rice paddies then why would they be doing it exactly? Is someone holding a gun to their head forcing them to manufacture I-phones?? No.
redsox9687 4 months ago
@redsox9687 No? Why do you think they installed suicide prevention nets around the Foxconn? Lol do you read the fucking news?
Rastinny 4 months ago
@Rastinny And my fundamental point in this is that if somehow the Incas (or any other natives) were somehow by some fluke of history the ones with the means to conquer the Europeans and not vice versa, they would have done it and each of us would be on the complete opposite side of this argument right now. How surprising is it really that an American is saying what I'm saying and a native South American is saying what you are? We are all human beings driven by the exact same forces...
redsox9687 4 months ago
@redsox9687 You fundamental point is fundamentally wrong. Yes all humans have the same potential for good and evil but the evil in todays world can not be traced to all humans. Humans all have the same needs but not the same desires. The evil Europeans have brought in this world is not the result of having white skin but because their stubborn application and propagation of Models they know are unsustainable but allow them luxuries they do not want to give up. Some Europeans are waking up though
Rastinny 4 months ago
Your clearly not one of them...
Rastinny 4 months ago
@redsox9687 by the way how does your fundamental point relate to this argument anyway? If Inca's had raked the slaughter Europeans had raked or invaded lands and slaughtered populations they would be just as wrong as Europeans and Zionists. The principle is the same for everybody. Acquisition of territories by war is inadmissible end of story. Israel needs to withdraw from Jerusalem. It is simple international law that needs to be enforced.
Rastinny 4 months ago
"Check his sources"
I found a good summary of the sources: flagrancy( )net/chomskyplanet.html
dihydrohydroxycodein 4 months ago 2
Only terrosrist minds can agree with Ders.
enriqueroman62 5 months ago
Dude,you could easily instill doubt in peoples mind with your argument but the moment you refer to Sharon as "great man of peace" even a dog at that point knows you dont mean any word you ever say
beteck123 5 months ago
Dershowitz = defender of rapists and murders ...(i'm sure O.J. loves this guy) he was his defence advisor after-all.
mrsunny811 5 months ago
Dershowitz is a fraud as exposed by Norman Finkelstein. But overall watching this reminds me that the debate fell into the old traps. Over-complicating the issue, obfuscation and dwelling on minutiae and side-issues. As Finkelstein says it's not complex, it's not difficult and it's not controversial. The occupation is illegal, the wall is illegal, the settlements are illegal, East Jerusalem belongs to the Palestinians. That's the law. The solution is simple. The UN gets tough with Israel.
Shinkicker64 5 months ago 3
Unfortunately, Israel has drank too much terrorist Koolaid. . .Zionists like Dershowitz actually believe in Orwellian logic like "pre-emptively killing hundreds of Palestians" makes Shimon Peres a peace loving man because of thousands of imagined deaths prevented. Disinterested parties just see abject violence from a hostile occupation force. Right or wrong, the seeing of Israel bulldozing Palestian houses as retribution will never allow me to feel any sympathy for them (Israel).
0gods 5 months ago
@QRF11B apparently 72 people agree with him. You just shut the fuck up and go back to hiding in your closet, dingleberry.
milkmankennedy 5 months ago
Google miko peled.
Spielberg's Hoax and Defamation: The Movie (Complete - U.K. Blocked)
and most important 'USS Liberty '
all on on google vid
seaoftears4ever 5 months ago
If you watched all 14 clips it's clear: Dershowitz wins this debate.
Rosstaman100 6 months ago
@Rosstaman100 as a lawyer yes...as an intellectual , and a debater -far from it
mrsunny811 5 months ago
Who buys the book of Dershowitz can use it as toilet paper
devrimhan1971 6 months ago 3
If Israel really seeks peace, it should work hard to dismantle the settlements, allow East Jerusalem to be worthy of being a capital, allow Palestine all they need to be a true sovereign country, and stop suffocating them as they do now. If Palestine really seeks peace, they must not give Israel excuses: no bombings, no rockets. And the international community, especially the US must keep them, especially Israel, to those standards.
sorsocksfake 6 months ago
While both seem to envision a similar idea, in my opinion mr Dershowitz seems to buy into an "Israeli" agenda (backed by at least the US), while mr Chomsky recognizes the flaws, though his passion may be too much at times. It seems there's a public face (to us, the Israeli face) and a more concealed one, though that one is accessible enough.
Israel seems not intent on a two-state solution, but one their state, and the scraps to Palestine. Judging by the settlements, those scraps only get less.
sorsocksfake 6 months ago
Durshewitz considers sharon a man thats capable of bringing peace to the world. WTH, what does this even mean?? This guy sounds so populistic and I m not taking his followers as bad people. They're simply deceived by his rhetoric (and bias) but this guy is seriously undistinguishable from a populist who just uses empty slogans/mantras and things of that sort.
Juicefulll 6 months ago
DERSHOWTIZ IS A CLASS A ACT EVEN THOUGH I DON'T AGREE WITH HIM ALL THE TIME. BUT CHOMSKY IS A SHAMELESS ANTI HUMAN RIGHTS IN EFFECT. HE LIES, HE IS SELECTIVE, HE DOES NOT APPLY REALITY. INDEED CHOMSKY IS IRRELEVANT!
triplecheck4 7 months ago
@triplecheck4 what trolls don't realize is because they are trolls they reveal themselves as such.
P.S. your cap lock does you no good service.
MisterBouncyBounce 7 months ago
@MisterBouncyBounce look deep in the mirror! what you say is what you are!
triplecheck4 7 months ago
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Id actually have respect for Alan Dershowitz if he would just come out and say: "jews and israel matter more than any one or any thing else, and the rest of the world comes in a distant second to the needs of jews and israel"
Hey Alan , at least just have the GUTS to be direct & honest ..no one respects a self-serving duplicitous coward......
Dannyboy855 7 months ago
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Hey PaliNazi, your lips, my ass... they should meet.
The so called “Palestinians” of today,
do not represent a nation or people,
merely a bunch of Wannabe-Nazis.
Kish meir Yiddische Tuchus.
TheSanRemoResolution 7 months ago
Ultimately they do not disagree what is needed for peace. They only dispute where the two sides are in getting there.
The most salient point Dershowtiz brought up was the Pal need to give up on the demand of "Right of Return." Chomsky claims the Palestinians have given it up and accepted a pragmatic symbolic right of return. If that is true, I am happy to hear it but I haven't seen Pal. leaders say this.
JeffKlives 7 months ago
@JeffKlives I agree with you, the discussion was supposed to be "whats to be done" not, "who's to blame", but neither speaker was really willing to stay on this (and neither was the audience). I think Dershowitz paints too rosy a picture of the Israel's willingness to compromise because its unlikely Barak could actually have delivered on his promises. For a look at a similar discussion among palestinians see youtube watch?v=obKbBSCemmo
bdrasin 7 months ago
Fast forward from this debate to today and you see how flawed Dershowitz's assessment was in the wake of the Gaza carpet bombing by the Israeli military, and the hard line Israel has taken in continued settlement development in Palestinian territory; in spite of international outrage, including the U.S. How can there be peace if Israel keeps taking land and expanding it's borders?
greg0879 8 months ago
wake up chompy
SuperYogiandbooboo 8 months ago in playlist Chomsky and Dershowitz debate Israel and Palestine
i love how durschawitz runs to chomsky after to shake his hand ...
i dont care you who agree with, i dont like ppl who are fake, and that was fake as hell...its obvious neither like the other... while durschawitz may be a better speaker, chomsky was clearly more factual and rested his arguments on scholarship
SpiderFan3 8 months ago
It's quite a nerving experience to look back at Chomsky's remarks from the past and see how accurately they have turned out later in the future with regards to many issues including his reaction to 9/11. If not atheist many would deem him a prophet by now. But it's certainly unique to see his opponents argue for flawed proposals as is recently being witness when Israel rejects Obama's basis for peace plans based on 1967 borders. Once again Chomsky revelations continue to scare me.
architect333 8 months ago
Dershowitz is worse than he appears here, in fact he's way worse - just watch this interview with Noam: eBclWDYuoxI
urcritic 9 months ago
Perhaps the best and most credible summary of the conflict I have found - wonderful upload - thank you!!!
nathanwilefrazier 9 months ago 2
The sources shows that all what chomsky said is a fact and all what dershowitz said is false that's it ...
socdaal 9 months ago in playlist Chomsky and Dershowitz debate Israel and Palestine
@socdaal
Chomsky's sources are just "A BOOK WRITTEN BY A, says X".When people -who were there- say X is false. It's Y. A wasn't there. If Chomsky has to rely on a book by somebody that wasn't there, against the evidence of somebody that was, and what those that were there have said, then it's not connected to reality. It'd be nice if Dershowitz had made the discussion with Clintona formal interview in his book. But even so
bolius1 9 months ago
@bolius1
It is a crime to even compare this man to Chomsky, let alone put Chomsky in the same panel with him. At best, Mr Dershowitz comes close to an absurd character of comical relief from a Hollywood film and a buffoonish propaganda tool for certain specific Israeli interest groups
RasputinStream 8 months ago
Anyone else but me that find the speaker Brian Mandell annoying?
mra1983 9 months ago
After watching this debate.. I would choose "Planet Chomsky" all day long when the other option is...
..."bill clinton told me once" -.-
5233484 9 months ago 3
@ThePrideOfIsrael what does 'so called "Palestinians"' mean? What kind of innuendo or point are you trying to make? It clear
pinfactoryworker 9 months ago
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The so called "Palestinians" of today
do not represent a nation or people,
merely a bunch of Wannabe-Nazis.
ThePrideOfIsrael 10 months ago
Dershowitz would be better suited to lecturing to people wanting to be told what to think not shown how he thinks. At no point did he seem anything other than rude and embarrassed by being shown as a liar and fake.
chishandfips 10 months ago
Here is Alan Dershowitz the Zionist clown arguing that torture should be legalized:
"The treaties against all forms of torture must begin to recognize differences in degree among varying forms of rough interrogation, ranging from trickery and humiliation, on the one hand, to lethal torture on the other."
Anyone who supports this monster is clearly morally degenerate.
OrthodoxDarwinist 10 months ago
Todays so called Palestinians do not represent a nation or people,
merely a bunch of Wannabe-Nazis.
Chomsky and Dershowitz are nothing but useful idiots for Anti-Zionist propaganda.
ThePrideOfIsrael 10 months ago
@ThePrideOfIsrael This is a silly comment.
chishandfips 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@chishandfips
Trying to discredit me ad hominem
merely exposes your frustration and ignorance.
ThePrideOfIsrael 10 months ago
@ThePrideOfIsrael Will you stop spreading the zionists comments in every page? people are not interested in what the zionists like you, Dershowitz or the terrorist state of israel say, But we wanna listen to the facts that is said by the likes of the professor Chomsky, UN, HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH, and AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL. so stop flooding with your zionist propaganda you idiot !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
khadar230 9 months ago 2
@ThePrideOfIsrael
No - ANTI-ZIONISM is logical - every non-Jew in Palestine has no right of self determination, every Jew anywhere in the world has automatic statehood.
Most Christian Palestinians had to leave after 1948, something they never once did before since Jesus Christ.
Zionism is wrong - plain and simple. If bad people exist - you are one of them. I hope you aren't, and have potential for developing yourself and becoming like the rest of the world - who all voted Zionism to be racism
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@superhamzah85
The question is... do you support an Islamic state?
MrHowToDoIt 8 months ago
Is it humanly possible for Chomsky to lose a debate? I doubt it he has facts out the ass about everything I can think of.
zzzak123 10 months ago 3
Dershowitz keep using buzz-phrases like "miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity," "peace dividend," "man of peace," etc., but doesn't seem to have much substance behind them.
godzilla1979 10 months ago
Chomsky pitied him
ahmed337799 10 months ago
Is Dershowitz campaigning? Just because you repeat something over and over doesn't make it true...only a crazy person could claim - after reading only some of the available documents of the past 60 years - that Israelian governments have been peace-seeking (well, okay, if you define peace as "we get it our way", then yes, they have...).
HermioneNo1 10 months ago
Dershowitz is a lawyer for sale and will lie for his patrons. But the difference is, he believes his lies to be truths. He is a case study for psychoanalyst and psychiatrist alike.
freenational 11 months ago
Fukkin aliens need to come & start invading Earth ASAP. Only something of that scale has the chance to unite our race (mutual enemy). I am so ashamed to be human sometimes. Why am I not a bird?! :(
sadekgheidan 11 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Dershowitz rocks!!!!
yisroelg1 11 months ago
The Israel/Palestine conflict is inflamed by religious fanaticism on both sides, but in essence, it's a conflict between colonizers and colonized, and religion isn't the main issue.
goc1973 11 months ago 4
In this debate, I do not expect the good side to win. BAD ALWAYS WINS!....well almost.
LampPlaceThing 11 months ago
dear alan, the party won, israel haven't changed a lot.
sariBarhum 11 months ago 3
@sariBarhum All part of the plan, for the last 60 years: Feign a love for peace and a Palestinian state in the media, but never intend to grant anything. Frankly, I've given up hope.
HermioneNo1 10 months ago
why is this supposedly secular jew such a giant asshole zionist?
BANGBANGBANGBBANG 11 months ago
@BANGBANGBANGBBANG AND whats so wrong with being a Zionist? Strike a chord with you perhaps? There is only one truth. Israel is the land of the Jews, as custodians of the most religious place on earth. Maybe you would prefer it as an Arab state. It is however, Israel and not Palestine. I know the pain you feel, but that's the truth. Unless you want to invade Israel, on the web at least. Ha ha.
eddied111 11 months ago
@eddied111 the palestinians and jews are equally stupid religious twats. if it werent for religion they would be able to live together in peace or theyd at least be able to settle a simple land dispute, but no..... everybody has to own jerusalem because its "sacred".
BANGBANGBANGBBANG 11 months ago
@BANGBANGBANGBBANG Errr, well I agree with you "if it was that simple". Perhaps if certain normal people were involved it would work. Jerusalem is a contentious issue. Why not let the religious sites be curated by a joint effort between Jewish, Arab and Christian scholars. Let the outer towns be equally divided, that is my solution. Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. But the Palestinians should have the right to live there in equal numbers, AS LONG AS THEY STOP MURDERING JEWS.
eddied111 11 months ago
@eddied111 Jerusalem is NOT a contentious issue for the WORLD OUTSIDE THE US AND ISRAEL. Nobody asked for your or any 'imaginative' solution. The solution is already there in the law: To ENFORCE INTERNATIONAL LAW AND THE INTERNATIONAL CONSENSUS. No country can legally acquire land by war. Israel illegally occupies east Jerusalem and needs to leave. That is the law. The solution is to uphold the law and to enforce the law. That is also the expressed will of the international community.
Rastinny 9 months ago 4
@Rastinny
where are you from?? Should Americans all just go back to Europe and return our land back to the Indians and Mexico who we defeated in war?... like it or not this is the real world.
redsox9687 4 months ago
@redsox9687 of course United Nations Security Council Resolution 242 clearly states the principle that it is the "inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war". Is is so difficult to understand that slaughtering humans to steal their land is has and always be immoral? How come you even ask me the question? Ye left Europe and came to America and slaughtered people who never did you anything. No American Indians came to Europe to bother ye! wtf is wrong with you?
Rastinny 4 months ago
@redsox9687 What fucking war? Did Indians go to Europe to attack ye? Ye left Europe travelled miles to the New World and went into their land to seek war with people who probably didn't even know you creatures existed out side of the realms of hell. Ye have been a plague for not only the American Indians but you should know the absolute disgrace of colonies you maintain on places like Hawai and Diego Garcia. Its sickning
Rastinny 4 months ago
Look it is no surprise that the most staunch supporters of Israel colony are the colonisers of North America. If you condemn stealing in one place you also have to condemn your own existence. Both Israel and the USA are created to the slaughter and displacement of humans in far away places humans who did not seek contact or war with Europeans. Europeans Christians and Jews colonised displaced and slaughtered existing populations to steal their land ye have done it everywhere. It is still wrong
Rastinny 4 months ago
And even though ye have an arsenal of demonic weapons to slaughter; People will continue telling ye it is wrong. Ye can slaughter how much you like, people will always despise ye even people in your own societies are ashamed and disgraced by your inhumanity. Ye are a plague a nakba a disaster a pestilence that has engulfed the world since 1492
Rastinny 4 months ago
@Rastinny No one is perfect and every nation has significant parts of its history that its people are not particularly proud of... are you saying that 300 years later if a disgruntled descendent of the Cherokee were to start rocketing my house I wouldn't have the right to defend myself and my family?
redsox9687 4 months ago
@redsox9687 You will have just as much right as your fore parents had when they came and slaughtered. However I am sure you would have enough weapons and blood thirsty crack heads to do the job and slaughter even more Indians. But might does not make right. It does allow the continuation of murder and injustice. When ye found out ye were wrong to slaughter Indians you should have apologised and reinstated them and asked them weather you can stay.
Rastinny 4 months ago
They could have said let by gone be by gone's and ye could have started something new. But it's not uncommon for Europeans to steal and murder apologize and also decide how much of what is stolen they will reimburse. Ye can do that because of the demonic weapons and the bloodthirsty demons ye pay to slaughter for you. It is was and never will be right but it is possible. It happens all the time. What is funny is that ye wonder why people gladly blow their bodies apart to kill some of you demons
Rastinny 4 months ago
@redsox9687 And NO NOT every nation has significant parts of history that they are not proud of. MOST people do not go to far away places to slaughter others, or to kidnap people to enslave murder and torture to death on plantations. But then I'm not a nationalist I believe that nation states ALL Nations states and the rediculous notion of nationalism remain a relic from colonialism. Another pest we have been saddled up with by the same European creatures that left Europe in 1492
Rastinny 4 months ago
@Rastinny And by the way as long as there have been separate groups of people governing themselves via what they've considered to be sovereign political entities there have been "nations"... it's not exactly just some "crazy concept that the evil Europeans dreampt up 500 years ago for no particular good reason."
redsox9687 4 months ago
@redsox9687 You are partly right the Europeans instituted the concept of souvereign nation states and it limitations on human freedom of movement with a particular purpose. It being to facilitate the exploitation of then Africa without slaughtering too much of their fellow Europeans in the process. However the institute is just as unsustainable and just as detrimental to both humans and ecosystems as the rest of their inventions.
Rastinny 4 months ago
@Rastinny Africa prior to the Europeans showing up was not exactly "united and living peacefully..." it consisted of hundreds of independent tribes strewn across the continent many of whom had been fighting each other since the beginning of recorded history... How were these "tribes" different from "nations?"
redsox9687 4 months ago
Comment removed
redsox9687 4 months ago
@Rastinny Additionally, if you're looking for an example of "separate and totally nonsensical nations existing," the best example would be the Arab world whose modern borders were based on the completely arbitrary lines drawn by the English and French as part of the Sykes-Picot Treaty. Despite the Arabs knowing this full-well, though, once the Europeans were gone why did the movement for Arab unity under Nasser then fail so completely if "nationalism isn't sustainable?"
redsox9687 4 months ago
@redsox9687 if you didn't know most of the lines drawn over the globe have been facilitated by Europeans. That Africans, Arabs or other people accept these lines does not make the lines a good invention. It just means that they accept and perpetuate the stupidity the retarded and exploitative models of development Europeans have thought them.
Rastinny 4 months ago
@Rastinny Prior to the Europeans showing up the Africans fought each other just as much as anyone else on the planet and it was generally over land and resources as it was everywhere else.
Wikipedia: "List_of_conflicts_in_Africa"
The fundamental question to be asking at this point, though, would be that if nationalism is apparently so "stupid and retarded" as I believe you put it, then what exactly has been sustaining it and how exactly do you envision it ending?
redsox9687 4 months ago
Dershowitz is an idiot. Chomsky is a genius!
OfficialCommentator 1 year ago
The style of each debater gives us a hint as to which one has more credibility and integrity...
Chomsky's style: "don't take my word for it...check out the sources and see if I'm right..."
Dershowitz's style: "you can take my word for it...because Simon Peres personally told me that..."
goc1973 1 year ago 7
@goc1973 okay, so the words of shimon peres and bill clinton mean absolutely nothing but when "Ron Poondok" (whoever the fuck that is) says something, it's automatically true?
redsox9687 4 months ago
its hard for many to be unbiased. its not for me. im canadian, non israeli, non-palastinian, pro-humanitarian. chomsky clearly won the debate. reason being it appeared he didn`t have to lie or twist facts. he didn`t have to try and belittle planet dershowitz.. dershowitz showed signs of a man with little intelligence and alot of israeli nationalism clouding his perceptions. he should not be teaching anywhere and should be fired for if nothing else INCOMPETENCE.
pederman15 1 year ago 3
moderator's a moron.
darkillity 1 year ago
Dershowitz is very immature, and was so loud in this debate..
ryanb113n 1 year ago
@ryanb113n Thats because he is a typical zionist extremist
mob101able1 1 year ago
character. I was never a big fan of Dr Chomsky but after listening to him and reading his books I realized I didn't know anything about him. I do now. Brilliant. Dershowitz ? Ahhh. Not so much
MISTERASMODEUS 1 year ago
Noam Chomsky was the better debater. He was clear and factual, collected and comfortable. Prof Dershowitz was uncomfortable and seemed ready for a shouting match that Dr Chomsky wasn't going to give him. He was also dancing the childish ad hom line with the "Planet Chomsky" remarks and dropping "professor" when addressing Professor Chomsky. I fully expected Prof Dershowitz to finally retort "oh yeah!" This debate wasn't even close. Prof Dershowitz is a very strange, angry and uncomfortable ch
MISTERASMODEUS 1 year ago
They've started with Dershowitz and ended up with him. That is not fair. However, Chomsky by far have won this debate.
saadessex 1 year ago
@QRF11B ... he types on a keyboard.
"...class and dignity..."
"... couldn't even look him in the eye."
"... a coward!"
(do you really think such biased revisionism lends anything beneficial to your cause? Or are you a tactless supporter of Chomsky unwisely setting up a strawman? Either way, please work on it a bit)
BCsJonathanTM 1 year ago
Norman Finkelstein tears Douchewitz a new one.
see
youtube.com/watch?v=c4bNAi-4j6s&feature=related
johnnyfast 1 year ago
@johnnyfast
ty will do.
shurednichso 1 year ago
@shurednichso
search for - Finkelstein versus Dershowitz debate, part 2 of 11
johnnyfast 1 year ago
i cannot imagine peace looking at your dirty face
RaniaIbrahim100 1 year ago