and ufc doesnt favor bjj fighters, it favors wrestlers. too bad you're too dumb to figure that out. and if it came to striking the groin and eyes, i would use my muay thai training for that more than i would some style that claims to train you to kill, yet you kill nothing in training.
punches with open thumb or extended fingers, and inside leg kicks to the groin > wing chun tactics.
and krav maga is a fancy way of saying 'hit and run' id rather learn parkour to get away from bad situations
@TruNikkaz how come UFC favors BJJ if all disciplines are allowed? only dangerous techniques are illegal, and most of them are illegal in almost any martial arts, for obvious reasons.
don't you forget Junior dos Santos does nothing but punching and still he is the newest heavyweight champion.
i didnt say it favors bjj, tho over half of the wins in it are by submission. dos santos is a boxer and boxing is a very underrated form of martial art. cutting the brain off is effective, and learning to eye gouge with boxing is easier than learning not to
you can do all of wing chun in a friendly fight^^ if the wing chun man would do everything to stop the breakdown at the beginning the BJJ man would sit in a wheelchair.
@guitarpwner67 You can`t accuratly analyse styles and say what the best style is based on youtube videos.
I think Jiu Jitsu is very impressive, i like watching videos of it, specially Royce Gracie he impresses me alot.
But it doesn`t matter if you are a master in a martial art if you are not versitile.
If all you know is theory and your knowledge about fighting is mostly just one style and just in the gym, you will probably loose against a well rounded martial artist with real experience.
@gjkristi anyone can punch and kick without training. thus, they know the basics. you can not wing your ground game. that takes time to understand. that is why jiu jitsu is so dominant.
@guitarpwner67 I`m not sure what you mean by "wing your ground game"?
Jiu Jitsu is a very good style, it has it`s strengths and weaknesses like any other style.
Fedor Emelianenko is one of the great fighters of our time, he has Sambo, Judo and Boing as base styles.. a very versetile fighter. If he went up against someone like Royce Gracie the outcome is hard to predict, but i think Fedor would win most times as he is not as restricted to one style as Royce might be.
If the wing chun guy wasn't so stubborn and used a different type of footwork to move around, do a few sprawls, he may have won with his Wing Chun. Some Wing Chun people are so stuck up on structure and making it look exactly like the art in the end screw themselves of enlightenment. Look at Wong Shun Leung and Bruce Lee. All modified Wing Chun. Yip man himself said don't believe everything I say just because I'm your sifu. Go find out yourself and make changes. Just some Wc'ers. *sigh*
there is no one answer, only options. and grappling arts give you many options. not just ways to fight on the ground, but ways to get yourself off of the ground.
if you knew anything about mma, you'd also know that wrestling is about takedowns and getting the top position, where-as jiu jitsu focuses on the guard position, which is on your back. you dont just have to keep people there, you can learn to roll them underneath you, then get up, and run. i dont recommend striking with a group either
anyone who says brazilian jiu jitsu is ineffective obviously does no martial art at all. I've been doing it for a year now and its the most effective martial art. Royce Gracie proved it along with many other great fighters. Win chun, jeet kune do, taek won do and all that other shit will always lose against a good jiu jitsu fighter.
@Ihaxjava Please don't claim that your 'dick' is the biggest it's pathetic. As always it depends on the fighter, and if you tried that manhugging shit on the street the guy you try to butfuck will have friends nearby who will come and stomp your head in. As a sport BJJ is effective but if you knew the first thing about street self defence you would know that rolling around on the floor is the last place anyone wants to be. It's a sure fire way to get curb stomped and brain hemorraged
@PnutButter1986 No one said anything about anyone's dick besides you, Got dick on your mind? Anyways thats beside the point. Gracie jiu jitsu is effective in a street fight. Bas Rutten is an expert at fighting in and out of the octagon and said so himself. You obviously are just some inexperienced street thug. I could be wrong but thats what it sounds like to me. Calling it "hugging and butt fucking."
most bjj practitioners i've ever met train striking as well, and if you knew anything about it, you'd know that the most useful thing bjj teaches you is how to handle someone who is on top of you, sweep them and run, submit them, doesn't matter
you should be posting this on a wrestling page or something. because you dont know what the fuck you're talking about. it's practical to use in one on one, and it will allow you freedom to get up when someone gets on top of you.
@TruNikkaz I completely agree with you that a plan is needed if taken to the ground, however some people on here talk as if they could win any fight with BJJ. In the real world the very last place you want to be is on the ground. Stay on your feet at all costs. Cos I don't know if you've ever been in a street fight? They don't attack 1 on 1. They are opportunists who hunt in packs, I've seen it, I've been on the end of it. Once you go to the floor they start the stomping. And that's when you die
you should never try and combat multiple opponents anyways, i have been jumped before and the ground is inevitable if you don't run. when people jump you, they usually drag you to the ground adn stomp you. its ahrd to defend being taken down by a group of people.
for multiple opponents i suggest learning parkour. striking with multiple guys is still too risky. you never know what their plan is. just gtfaway
@Ihaxjava i do both judo and bjj, and i have to say judo is more effective, as it has a massive ground game, which maybe not as big bjj, good enough to hold its own, plus the throws which put you directly into a position of advantage is what really makes judo great, i'm not shit talking bjj, it's just if you'r looking for a non striking martial art to do, i say go with judo.
Brazilian jujitsu doesn't work on some people. Like people that fight so hard that they make the fixed gracie ufc contest look like a joke. you don't wanna grapple in a street fight or use closed fists. fists do more damage then palms, but catching teeth and aids or hurting your fingers or wrist isn't fun. anyways i saw a karate/bjj guy fight just some ghetto thug at mica's (a bar) the indian just kneed him in the face when he went for a take down, and just beat on him.
grappling on concrete still happens. to say it doesn't makes you both an idiot and a pussy. people fly 10ft in the air to do skateboard tricks on concrete but you think rolling around on concrete is any more dangerous?
and if he took a knee to the face, then he wasn't setting up the takedown which is the first step towards utilizing one.
i've seen many street fights in person and online that would have ended sooner or did end thanks to submission training. brawlers are food for bjj
wing chun is only effective when choreographed but this is what happens in real life & to all you wing chun guys who say that wing chun straight punching relaxed speed style is unstoppable try it on mike tyson and prove it. after your wing chun master gets KO'd in 12 seconds you'll fall back to your "well if it was a street fight with NO RULES' excuses just to make yourself feel better.
@bubbakill1 why you say mike tyson he get destroyed by a mma, you should have used an example that favors MMA why use a boxing reference when they lose all the time in the cage. o,0
wing chun guy should have kept close but anyways BJJ guy was good i don't see what all the trolling is about, the BJJ guy was simply better nothing more nothing less
@bullshidohunter they've always had antigrappling. If someone grabs your arm and you release their grip and take control of them with ITF TKD (any ITF studio will teach you that in your first week), that's antigrappling. see that fictional bruce lee story movie where they have him fighting a BJJ guy. when the BJJ guy goes to grab him, he breaks the grip. because Bruce Lee is Quick. it's not the art, it's the artist. Just because you do BJJ doesn't make you Gracie.
theres a simple way to counter a takedown, MOVE OUT OF THE WAY. stop trying to stand there and block everything like ip man. just sidestep that shit and wait on a strike, and if he manages to get close to take yout down you can just take a step backwards and he cant lift you, and you can elbow his back if you want.
You cant use wing chun in competitions or with MMA rules or to even just spar it's just far to ''DEADLY'',, Now let me get my training gear and head off to a chi sau compertition and win with my patty cake skills
One thing nobody ever seems to get in these challenge videos is this is on a padded matt. I love BJJ and many other arts but on asphalt, hardwood, or concrete you are probably doing more damage to yourself than the opponet. Look at .08 in when he shoots up then lets his body weight drive his knees right into the ground. Yah, that can work but if you did this on concrete. Well you probably just broke a kneecap so who really wins here. WC and BJJ still great arts though.
@Tarc5150 umm dude how about the part where he slams him into the ground? ps everyone knows this and would use a diff throw? seo nagi, osoto gari perhaps?
I guess a seo nagi would be better but still going to hurt like hell on concrete. In an ideal situation I would just go for an old fashioned hip throw and let the ground do the damage to my attacker.
Possibly. I thought your knee still got dragged along the ground. Either way I don't think everyone know to change the throw. I live in LA and BJJ has become so watered down out here. We have blue belts running schools out here and they are on every corner. I must drive past 10 BJJ schools on my way home from work every night and I'm not sure if one has a qualified instructor teaching.
@Tarc5150 my teachers teacher was a blue belt when he started teaching and well lol if you know bjj you know who bita is :D watering down ...that can be said about any martial art and bjj as a sport is taking over the self defence aspect , im shodan in japanese jujitsu and blue in bjj/gjj,as well as striking styles i train, the seo nagi is taught in both and in judo as a hip style throw and the dropping is taught much later in both, but again without the gi its much harder
The guy of wing tsun its just a begginer... the grappler dude has more experience fighting,,, the difference was obviously... the wing tsun guy doesnt know how to punch even,,,
Unfortunately a lot of style of the martial art like karate, Kung Fu, wushu, aikido ( etc) won't teach you ground fighting because it's not in the style so when you get challenged by a grappler you lose the match automatically
@tidowt Wrong. Wing Chun is a part of Kung Fu, Kung Fu is a part of Martial Arts. The definition of Wing Chun is Offensive defending, take a opponent out as soon as possible.
Obviously in this video the BJJ fighter has advanced his fighting style more that the Wing Chun fighter, he needs to learn more, I already saw it in his stance.
Expirience it one time mate, you will love it :) And remember, Wing Chun is not a sport, it's a way of live that makes you a Human Weapon.
OK this time Im gonna back up the wing chun dude. Its not really a fair fight if you are a bjj blue belt and he has only traing for 18 monthes. hardly a fair fight at all.
@rabiddogblizzard1 Agreed, the more traditional arts like WC, karate, etc. have a slower learning process, because the training focus (proficiency) is different from more modern arts like BJJ (combat readiness). Not better or worse, just different, since both goals can be addressed in all the arts For guys who want to learn how to handle themselves in a shorter amount of time, they prefer more modern arts. Others who want to focus on mastery of technique and of self, they do TMA's.
@SkemeKOS Let me clarify: I'm saying modern arts like MMA/BJJ take a more direct approach to combat than the more traditional arts do. Traditional arts do forms and such for the purpose of perfecting technique, while the modern seeks optimal fighting skill above all else. Never said mastery isn't a goal of modern arts, because it stands to reason you want to be proficient. As I said, both goals can be addressed in all fighting systems; it's what each style emphasizes that makes them different.
@SkemeKOS Perhaps I came off wrong, because I agree concerning mastery of any art. All I was trying to say is that both traditional and modern have similar goals - fighting skill in the short-term, mastery in the long term - they just have different paths acheiving those goals.
but its not a real combat situtation is it! like all these things its a friendly spar. all fights have a referee, when your fighting for survival where there are no rules or referees then everything changes. once u have the tools there are no rules.
Makes no sense at all. What's the point in training if nothing you train will work in a "real fight"? It's obviously you've never fought a day in your life and are just speaking from your ass. Go show your "no rules" shit in a video or shut the hell up, you blowhard.
@SkemeKOS honestly speaking, no. One guy on one video does not represent wing chun all over the world. I train in catch wresling and JKD (uses many wing chun principles). So i know for a fact wing chun can work when trained properly. And no, wing chun doesnt work on the ground, hence why i take catch wresling and didn't watch the video.
Very nice! As a wing chunner, I have to say it is difficult to find groundwork in wc, but it is there, just like it is in any other martial art. Most people taking wc however, don't seem to spend much time on the ground...there are only so many things to do on the ground, just gotta get down there an doem!
@littlbigd well i would say maybe your school didnt and this kid didnt, a lot of WC/WT has lower stances as well as higher, there were even trips and throws when i attended one of WT's seminars, i dont train in WC and im not starting a contest i just find it very strange that you would train for years and never get taught a single defense for a charge or low take down and i would pick a few up from a single seminar....
@usachad1 Take down defense. You have to learn to wrestle if you want to stay on your feet. WC is suppose to be a 4 range system but it is only (very) effective at one range - infighting. If you get closer WC loses. If you get further WC loses.
ah f**k it i had some speal all typed out but you know what.......... i just dont give a f**k right now, yeah.... that just about says it, but yeah......pce.
you all seem to forget the biggest argument killer of all in this area, your discussions are all related to combat SPORT!! theaz no rules or illegal/unfair shots in real combat no matter how good u are at watever art u practice sports still have rules. ground works no good if the guy manages to bite an ear of or worse a nut. any1 can beat any1. it all depends on the moment
@TruNikkaz I agree that both will be more effective than a purist, but both grappling or striking techniques have their own techniques to work against the other, so you can't make that assumption, as there are only fighters that are stronger than others, not styles.
9/10 the pure grappler will beat the pure striker. i can def make that assumption, and i myself have a striking background prior to my grappling training. of course the ratio of the level of striker and grappler matters, but a mediocre grappler has a greater chance against an amazing striker than an amazing grappler vs a mediocre striker
(Part 1) All traditional Chinese martial arts contain four basic categories of fighting skills: shuai (wrestling), na(seizing and locking), ti(kicking), and da(striking). The amount of emphasis placed on each category depends on two factors: the style of martial art and the individual martial artist. Wing Chun itself is a principle-based martial art that takes little shape or form; it has great potential be extremely versatile.
@ForwardIntent (Part 2) However, most practitioners only practice striking and barely any kicking. Many even believe grappling is non-existent in Wing Chun. These people are ignorant to their own martial art and limit themselves to only surface-level proficiency. Another problem is that these people with their ineffective mindset do not even practice free sparring; the furthest they get is sticky-hand sparring, then they think they can fight.
@ForwardIntent (Part 3) Wrestling is special against kicking and striking; kicking and striking is special against seizing and locking. These these categories mutually support and conquer each other just like rock-paper-scissors. This is basic knowledge. You can't just rely on rock. You can't just rely on paper. You can't just rely on scissors. Likewise, a proficient fighter is well-versed in all categories.
@ForwardIntent (Part 4) 99% of the Wing Chun practitioners that I've seen and practiced with limit themselves to only striking and BARELY any kicking. What the fuck is going on?
@ForwardIntent (Part 5) EDIT Part 3: Wrestling is special against kicking and striking; kicking and striking is special against seizing and locking, AND SEIZING AND LOCKING IS SPECIAL AGAINST WRESTLING.
I don't doubt it, but it seems that Wing Chun in it's modern dojo form is focused solely on simple strikes and flashy strikes.
i know it's much more capable than that. but jiu jitsu is mostly a grappling discipline. unless someone trains in grappling to an extent, they are defenseless
@TruNikkaz ... This statement is only true when addressed to a competition fights, as the moves a striker would use against a grappler are, by in large, illegal or constituting a foul. At 0:05 the striker could have used elbows to: break both collar bones, back of head knockout, strike to spine. Brought up a knee to; break nose, strike solar plexus. Or; grabbed hair, ears, eyes, snapped neck. Most of which "disqualify". There are no rules in a real fight.
@Empyriummann I completely agree. (I apologize if I get too Systema in this response) You must remember that a "take down" is still a strike. Any strike powerful enough to hurt/effect your body, has enough energy to hurt/effect your opponents body. A TD is no faster than a kick. If you can redirect the energy of a kick, you can redirect a TD. The only difference being a TD requires full commitment, and adjusts center of balance to a forward point away from feet; thus begging for counter attack.
@auz268 The problem is that there is no guarantee you're gonna knock out your opponent with a kick or a punch, most of the time you won't even if you get a punch in, whereas a grappler has pretty much won the fight when gets a TD against a striker, real life or not, it's not easy to beat a grappler if you're not trained in grappling, it's best to know both.
@auz268 I would agree to a point but this guy didn't seem to have any experience with grapplers. Although I have messed up against wrestlers I managed to get away. I know enough to stay standing or at least get in a better position. Once he was on his back he had no idea what he was doing I at least know ways to get out from under people. My Sifu did Jujitsu before doing Wing Chun we had a few classes on throws and grappling but not that many. He chooses to teach Wing Chun over anything else.
and being good at grappling vs someone who doesn't grapple makes it to where no bodies get 'thrown around' it results in a mount as seen here. if you haven't seen a street fight go to the ground before, then you obviously have never been in a real fight your entire life
@TruNikkaz When you can't get a hold on someone, what good does grappling do?? Real Wing Chun teaches 'anti-grappling': grab breaks, shifts in stances,etc. When my good friend invited me to his bjj class, none of the students there could get a hold on me. Wing Chun also has its own joint manipulation/ grappling curriculum; we just like to avoid ground fighting because it's a nasty situation when you're not on the mat. That's why people who don't know wing chun shouldn't claim otherwise on YT.
and you have never been to a bjj class if they couldn't 'get a hold of you' simply because your first class wouldn't start with taking people down
and secondly, grab 'breaks?' sounds like some bullshit wing chun. why don't you look at the sean guy who was a black belt in wing chun and had to learn bjj to graple at all in mma?
"he was prolly from a mcdojo" yeah yeah yeah, same excuses as all the other tma fags
@TruNikkaz sean obasi can win against a BJJ guy using purely wing chun. He just does it quick enough that they can't do a takedown. he has a video like that on his youtube profile. :)
@TruNikkaz You're really stupid. period. Every word that just spewed from your keyboard is ass-backwards. Bring your grappling bullshit this way anytime and make a fool of yourself. I've seen my instructor stomp mma, jeet kun do, kuntao, jujitsu practitioners; I can send you videos to prove it. You're comments are as ignorant as your online identity. 'TRUNIKKAS'..how enlightened. I'm pretty sure you don't know your ass from your elbow in terms of martial arts, sooo. Thank you for your insight.
@TruNikkaz So because one black belt in WC had to learn the rules of BJJ to compete with BJJ hes automatically and idiot and cant fight?
Theres "rules" in MMA man, thats probably what he had to learn was what he CANT do in the ring
No i dont train WC i just see nothing but shit talk coming from these no name gyms that are suddenly teaching kickbox and jujutsu because its popular currently, u know how many JKD schools opened up after the bruce lee craze? same shit with the UFC
yeah, but we have proof that this new 'craze' works, where-as bruce lee had action movies
i've already covered the parts where pretty much every single style of fighter has to learn to fight within the rules. and if wing chun has nothing to offer outside of killing people or using dirty tactics, then you are proving my point on it's effectiveness. you know that killing someone with a knife or gun is just as legal as using your own hands, right?
@TruNikkaz bruce lee actually had the most gyms across america and canada at one point in time man.... not just movies, EVERYONE wanted to practice this jeet kune do, this amazing new style
By the way killing someone with a knife or gun is NOT the same, Using a weapon versus your fists is a totally different case in court and they would treat it as such, now of course if the other person has a knife or a gun too it wouldnt matter, but you havent taken a law class before now have you?
and yes i have, killing in self defense varies upon circumstances, and typically any situation grave enough for you to use your hands to kill someone, it's equally as legal to kill them with a weapon
stop acting like you know shit, you're an idiot at best
i'm calling you a dipshit because it's so obvious that you're just some self-proclaimed fight philospher and you are telling me that in a situation in which it's ok to kill anyone, using a weapon wouldn't be more effective.
idiot.
you're making points that i'm already aware of. competing isn't a street fight. but all the stuff that isn't allowed and most effective is gifted to the better grappler. and in the street those locks or chokes wouldnt have been ref decisions. death or injury
@Taud Yep, he had to learn BJJ to get to know what he wasn't allowed to do in the ring. Learn an entire new MA for that. Just telling him "please don't kick people in the balls" wouldn't have sufficed. Seriously, that was an excellent example of using strawmen in a discussion. If someone is excellent in amateur or professional in-ring or in-cage fighting, he's a good fighter because he knows how to subdue a VERY non-compliant opponent and knows how it feels to get hit, among other reasons.
@Azatdawn Yeah you do actually have to learn an entirely new art, its not just "dont kick in the balls" it goes onto headbutts and dis allowing stomping or kicking while the opponent is down, it favors the grappling rules of the gracie judo it was founded on so no that would not suffice.... im not sure where youre coming from on that one, he knows how to subdue them using the rules and if you pay attention 90% of them use the cage walls to help pull moves off, its a sport within rules
@Taud It might be a sport within rules, but it is still an excellent way to test your fighting abilities against an opponent who's in most cases out to harm you. You seem to go the "too deadly for the ring" route, which is bullshit, sorry. Watch the first ufc's where eye gouges etc. where allowed. Wait, who one those? Ah right, there was some grappler dude... Gradie or Grapie, something like that.
@Azatdawn LOL that was your own little quote there not mine"too deadly for the ring", the first ufc did not allow eye gouging thats whats bullshit i remember the first fights and the old ring they did have a bit rougher rules than now no weight class and etc but nah it wasnt some savage cage fight like youre making it out to be gracie was one of the people who helped build the ufc the rules were built around the judo grappling rules which is where BJJ comes from it favors that style even today
@Azatdawn Well you raise some interesting points though my good sir, its definitely a fighting style that can be used, i dont debate that, i just like to try and recognize something designed around modern safety rules and something that was used in street fighting situations are two very different things, i myself am actually a judo student, i know the power of choking the blood and air out of someone, some holds wouldnt be possible in an alley or street is my main topic here
@Taud Judo, that's pretty great. I wish I had the time to study Judo, I'd think it'd be pretty awesome to round my skills as I'm mostly training thaiboxing at the moment. Anyway, why do you think that some holds would not be possible in an alley? And... have you ever tried sparring with a wing chun guy?
@Azatdawn the teachers in judo make all the difference, try to get someone who doesnt teach a kids class, theyll be more serious. sadly no ive never gotten to spar someone who knows real WC ive looked around for it and only found people who just claim to have learned it from a person who didnt exist, a lot try and learn from books and the internet than teach. One thing WC unfortunately has is a lot of wanna be's, asian MA in general have lots of fakes Ashida kim,Stephen hayes,Christa jacobson
i wasn't bashing TMA, im just tired of these guys chiming in on every video of a representative of their art losing some sort of match and making excuses while bashing the winner's art. i haven't seen anyone except butthurt TMA dudes do this
yeah well wing chun wrist looping wont help against a takedown. and these guys seem to think a knee is the cure for it, but they're wrong. its a chance of course, but if you miss, you gave them a clean takedown
@TruNikkaz In reference to this, there's a reason why he had to take BJJ and was unable to use Wing Tsun. It's because most of the techniques utilized in Wing Tsun are HIGHLY EFFECTIVE AND POTENTIALLY VERY DEADLY.
You know, eye gouges, finger strikes, etc. You MMA zombies glorify BJJ as if it's the most effective form of martial arts. It's really, truly not.
how many of you butthurt faggots out there cant accept that eye gouges, groin grabbing, throat grabbing and all the most effective deadly tactics favor the person with the better grip (grappler) and pretty much need no training to utilize at all??
the fact that you guys say that wingchun only works if there are no rules proves nothing except that it has nothing to offer except natural common sense self defense tactics. wing chun guys must practice by grabbing each other's ballsacks
the lack of knowledge of bjj proves the bullshit status of your claims. but i'll just leave it at that. bjj has all the proof and credit in the world, and all wing chun has is shit talkers like you on youtube and forums
@TruNikkaz Not only that, but it is used in the Special Forces... along with Krav Maga. Being sent on a special forces mission implies that you have the ability to engage multiple attackers, and Wing Tsun (yes it's TSUN) Kung Fu is proven as being the most effective at doing so.
In a no-rules scenario, all of my money would go down on the Wing Tsun Kung Fu. This means ANY move can be used by the BJJ or KF fighter. Again, my money is on the WTKF fighter. :)
@TruNikkaz MMA/UFC is all about instant gratification. That's why the general consensus of mixed martial artists are under the age of 25--young and stupid. They teach you some fancy moves and make you think you know anything about fighting. They teach you ignorance, friend. For you not to appreciate the true scope of Wing Chun shows your youth and immaturity. The end. Keep trolling all you want. Argument is done. Step off the mat and see how your skills fare.
lolol. what you just said the ufc is, is what wing chun actually does. false sense of security, leaving you believing that you can fight.
where-as mma is all full-contact sparring with individuals larger than you half of the time
train however you want to train, but don't expect me to keep my mouth shut when you say retarded shit like "wing chun = anti-grappling" to me, we all know that the best way to avoid a grappler is to learn some grappling
well grappling tournaments have rules but all the illegal tactics like groin and throat grabbing, small joint, eye gouging, and fish-hooking are all in favor of the grappler. the strikes available to the positions given to the better grappler also pay an important role in it's effectiveness.
knowing only a striking art that has no realistic full-contact sparring involved is a good way to get seriously hurt by even a novice grappler
@TruNikkaz not true at all, pure grappling will always lose to pure striking, it doesnt matter how many grapples you know if u cant throw a punch yur done
i see how chun sau would work really well when someone takes you down..
because it doesnt need the momentum normal punches does like doing an arc before hitting.. chun sau only needs a straight line to hit, so it's easier to do when grappled down.. compared to normal punching..
so i fail to see why that guy on black didnt even try to punch
you always want to keep moving around and react quickly against someone using BJJ cause obviously they are going to take you down on the floor. you should already know that and anticipate when the BJJ guy is gonna put his head down and go for your lower body and that's is when you counter him by moving out quicker and give him one big blow to the head/face.
While I absolutely enjoy seeing shitty wing chun guys who can't fight realistically at 5 secs any decent wing chun guy would have at least tried to bridge the gap and launch an attack to avoid being taken down. The only way Wing chun works is to go forward,not back, you would think if you knew your arse was going down you would at least give it a try.
How do grapplers do against multiple attackers? My old sensei, who was Kyokushinkai, with some TKD and Kuntaw training, could consistently kick the crap out of 3 of us.
@nezpercenathan That's different. I do Krav Maga and we fight from everywhere... standing up or in the ground. However we avoid taking the fight to the ground if we're fighting multiple opponents, But let's say you have to subdue a drunken friend then ground fighting and submitions work better.
@pantherablaze Good point. I used to watch Royce Gracie in some of the early UFC, and admired his ability to tap out guys who outweighed him by 50-100 lbs., but later I started thinking "if there were two of them, one could be kicking his head in, while he was keeping the other one in the guard" I guess you really need some of both striking and grappling.
Drop root and jum sau when he shoots in, elbow the back of the neck. Try again wearing face shields for your grappler friend so you can kick and punch it will disrupt his root on shoot and make him have to reset before trying another takedown.
Watching this and the sequel it's pretty clear the BJJ dude has some kickboxing training too (possibly Muay Thai) so it's more like "WC vs. MMA". High-line feint into double-leg takedown is pure Royce Gracie but the guy's stance is more (kick)boxing based. Also as people pointed out, none of the usual WC nasties like eye, groin or throat strikes. Still, good demo.
Boring sport fight the streets tell a differnt tail. That is why anything can work and the theory people place on bjj as being the best is trully blind. Intell you fight for your life your only playing a childs game.
not disrepecting the W.C guy but he isnt vry gd 2nd i train in both W.C &BJJ so listn W,C is not a sport art it has a lot of strikes @ the eyes throat,knees i can tell u in a real fight it wud not b a gd idea to rush in on a vry exprcd W.C guy like he did on here iv fought in the ring boxing in the military and on the strreets and believe me u dnt really wna b on the ground i really hope that this wana b ufc culture undrstds its a diffrnt world on the streets than the octagon
Wing chun is rubbish, its a piss weak style that isnt any good against any1 except a monkey, we all end up fighting the same, it just takes some styles longer to get there (WC ect )
your stance didnt do much for that takedown
w8ngr 1 week ago
1ª level of student
WingChunXXI 2 months ago
and ufc doesnt favor bjj fighters, it favors wrestlers. too bad you're too dumb to figure that out. and if it came to striking the groin and eyes, i would use my muay thai training for that more than i would some style that claims to train you to kill, yet you kill nothing in training.
punches with open thumb or extended fingers, and inside leg kicks to the groin > wing chun tactics.
and krav maga is a fancy way of saying 'hit and run' id rather learn parkour to get away from bad situations
TruNikkaz 2 months ago
@TruNikkaz how come UFC favors BJJ if all disciplines are allowed? only dangerous techniques are illegal, and most of them are illegal in almost any martial arts, for obvious reasons.
don't you forget Junior dos Santos does nothing but punching and still he is the newest heavyweight champion.
luisbaltazar1 2 months ago
@luisbaltazar1
i didnt say it favors bjj, tho over half of the wins in it are by submission. dos santos is a boxer and boxing is a very underrated form of martial art. cutting the brain off is effective, and learning to eye gouge with boxing is easier than learning not to
TruNikkaz 2 months ago
you can do all of wing chun in a friendly fight^^ if the wing chun man would do everything to stop the breakdown at the beginning the BJJ man would sit in a wheelchair.
MrTifli 2 months ago
Wing chun is just too pussy.. all you do is just do blocks which would be really hard to do in a real situation.
xxMiZa 2 months ago
now try this with IP MAN
NapolionTNT22098 2 months ago
BJJ the most ultimate fighting style
YooEssBee1 3 months ago
It`s not the style that wins the fight, it`s the man.
If you constrict yourself to using just a sertain set of moves, there will allways be a way to break the defence or find a weak spot.
Martial art is just a tool to guide you, not the recipe to win a fight.
gjkristi 3 months ago
@gjkristi well based on all the videos on youtube, i'd say it's the style, and that style is jiu jitsu =)
guitarpwner67 3 months ago
@guitarpwner67 You can`t accuratly analyse styles and say what the best style is based on youtube videos.
I think Jiu Jitsu is very impressive, i like watching videos of it, specially Royce Gracie he impresses me alot.
But it doesn`t matter if you are a master in a martial art if you are not versitile.
If all you know is theory and your knowledge about fighting is mostly just one style and just in the gym, you will probably loose against a well rounded martial artist with real experience.
gjkristi 3 months ago
@gjkristi anyone can punch and kick without training. thus, they know the basics. you can not wing your ground game. that takes time to understand. that is why jiu jitsu is so dominant.
guitarpwner67 3 months ago
@guitarpwner67 I`m not sure what you mean by "wing your ground game"?
Jiu Jitsu is a very good style, it has it`s strengths and weaknesses like any other style.
Fedor Emelianenko is one of the great fighters of our time, he has Sambo, Judo and Boing as base styles.. a very versetile fighter. If he went up against someone like Royce Gracie the outcome is hard to predict, but i think Fedor would win most times as he is not as restricted to one style as Royce might be.
gjkristi 3 months ago
@gjkristi and there you have it guys your comment should be the only one for all these style vs style vids.
OneWorldGoverment86 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@gjkristi and there you have it guys your comment should be the only one for all these style vs style vids.
OneWorldGoverment86 1 month ago
If the wing chun guy wasn't so stubborn and used a different type of footwork to move around, do a few sprawls, he may have won with his Wing Chun. Some Wing Chun people are so stuck up on structure and making it look exactly like the art in the end screw themselves of enlightenment. Look at Wong Shun Leung and Bruce Lee. All modified Wing Chun. Yip man himself said don't believe everything I say just because I'm your sifu. Go find out yourself and make changes. Just some Wc'ers. *sigh*
simonmafy 4 months ago
there is no one answer, only options. and grappling arts give you many options. not just ways to fight on the ground, but ways to get yourself off of the ground.
if you knew anything about mma, you'd also know that wrestling is about takedowns and getting the top position, where-as jiu jitsu focuses on the guard position, which is on your back. you dont just have to keep people there, you can learn to roll them underneath you, then get up, and run. i dont recommend striking with a group either
TruNikkaz 4 months ago
All the guy had to do was sprawl when bjj went for the dump tackle
PnutButter1986 4 months ago
anyone who says brazilian jiu jitsu is ineffective obviously does no martial art at all. I've been doing it for a year now and its the most effective martial art. Royce Gracie proved it along with many other great fighters. Win chun, jeet kune do, taek won do and all that other shit will always lose against a good jiu jitsu fighter.
Ihaxjava 5 months ago
@Ihaxjava Please don't claim that your 'dick' is the biggest it's pathetic. As always it depends on the fighter, and if you tried that manhugging shit on the street the guy you try to butfuck will have friends nearby who will come and stomp your head in. As a sport BJJ is effective but if you knew the first thing about street self defence you would know that rolling around on the floor is the last place anyone wants to be. It's a sure fire way to get curb stomped and brain hemorraged
PnutButter1986 5 months ago
@PnutButter1986 No one said anything about anyone's dick besides you, Got dick on your mind? Anyways thats beside the point. Gracie jiu jitsu is effective in a street fight. Bas Rutten is an expert at fighting in and out of the octagon and said so himself. You obviously are just some inexperienced street thug. I could be wrong but thats what it sounds like to me. Calling it "hugging and butt fucking."
Ihaxjava 4 months ago
@PnutButter1986
most bjj practitioners i've ever met train striking as well, and if you knew anything about it, you'd know that the most useful thing bjj teaches you is how to handle someone who is on top of you, sweep them and run, submit them, doesn't matter
you should be posting this on a wrestling page or something. because you dont know what the fuck you're talking about. it's practical to use in one on one, and it will allow you freedom to get up when someone gets on top of you.
TruNikkaz 4 months ago
@TruNikkaz I completely agree with you that a plan is needed if taken to the ground, however some people on here talk as if they could win any fight with BJJ. In the real world the very last place you want to be is on the ground. Stay on your feet at all costs. Cos I don't know if you've ever been in a street fight? They don't attack 1 on 1. They are opportunists who hunt in packs, I've seen it, I've been on the end of it. Once you go to the floor they start the stomping. And that's when you die
PnutButter1986 4 months ago
@PnutButter1986
you should never try and combat multiple opponents anyways, i have been jumped before and the ground is inevitable if you don't run. when people jump you, they usually drag you to the ground adn stomp you. its ahrd to defend being taken down by a group of people.
for multiple opponents i suggest learning parkour. striking with multiple guys is still too risky. you never know what their plan is. just gtfaway
TruNikkaz 4 months ago
@Ihaxjava i do both judo and bjj, and i have to say judo is more effective, as it has a massive ground game, which maybe not as big bjj, good enough to hold its own, plus the throws which put you directly into a position of advantage is what really makes judo great, i'm not shit talking bjj, it's just if you'r looking for a non striking martial art to do, i say go with judo.
anispooful 2 months ago
@anispooful
i would say to do both, but judo throws are one of, if not the most practical thing to learn in a fight.
TruNikkaz 2 months ago
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waterchainsawman 5 months ago
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waterchainsawman 5 months ago
Godzilla vs bjj. That i'd like to see.
TheCrotchparty 5 months ago
and btw, takedowns aren't the only means of a fight going to the ground. use your brain, lots of things cause it.
TruNikkaz 5 months ago
all you guys are pussies and i could beat you all up
dylangraves 5 months ago
Brazilian jujitsu doesn't work on some people. Like people that fight so hard that they make the fixed gracie ufc contest look like a joke. you don't wanna grapple in a street fight or use closed fists. fists do more damage then palms, but catching teeth and aids or hurting your fingers or wrist isn't fun. anyways i saw a karate/bjj guy fight just some ghetto thug at mica's (a bar) the indian just kneed him in the face when he went for a take down, and just beat on him.
8520rah 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@8520rah
"Brazilian jujitsu doesn't work on some people. Like people that fight so hard.."
Ah yes, I am familiar with the "fight so hard" people. They "gas real fast."
afreiden 5 months ago
@8520rah
grappling on concrete still happens. to say it doesn't makes you both an idiot and a pussy. people fly 10ft in the air to do skateboard tricks on concrete but you think rolling around on concrete is any more dangerous?
and if he took a knee to the face, then he wasn't setting up the takedown which is the first step towards utilizing one.
i've seen many street fights in person and online that would have ended sooner or did end thanks to submission training. brawlers are food for bjj
TruNikkaz 5 months ago
This is a shit, but, this would happen, takedown and face destruction or submission
fedemma91 5 months ago
wing chun is only effective when choreographed but this is what happens in real life & to all you wing chun guys who say that wing chun straight punching relaxed speed style is unstoppable try it on mike tyson and prove it. after your wing chun master gets KO'd in 12 seconds you'll fall back to your "well if it was a street fight with NO RULES' excuses just to make yourself feel better.
bubbakill1 6 months ago
@bubbakill1 why you say mike tyson he get destroyed by a mma, you should have used an example that favors MMA why use a boxing reference when they lose all the time in the cage. o,0
jamesellis33 5 months ago
wing chun guy should have kept close but anyways BJJ guy was good i don't see what all the trolling is about, the BJJ guy was simply better nothing more nothing less
thejin666 6 months ago
why dont we just all respect each every other martial art, that would be nice:D
XTropaXTroopsX 6 months ago
@bullshidohunter they've always had antigrappling. If someone grabs your arm and you release their grip and take control of them with ITF TKD (any ITF studio will teach you that in your first week), that's antigrappling. see that fictional bruce lee story movie where they have him fighting a BJJ guy. when the BJJ guy goes to grab him, he breaks the grip. because Bruce Lee is Quick. it's not the art, it's the artist. Just because you do BJJ doesn't make you Gracie.
neutrino78x 6 months ago
jiu jitsu is the best for street fighting, I'm a striker for over 10 years, kung fu, boxing, and muay thai
now I do bjj as well, u really can't explain how effective it is to someone who doesn't do it
I'm was also a rugby player (3 years all year round) and in my first class I was tossed around and submitted like nothing by a 16 year old white belt
also EVERY street fight I was in before jiu jitsu ended up in a grappling situation, and sometimes on the ground
marsy91 6 months ago
@marsy91 yeah but kung fu has ground techniques too. so why didn't you use your kung fu ground techniques? (chin na I think it is called)
neutrino78x 6 months ago
@wolf3001 your sifu can kill my ass fuck you and fuck wing chun
fednarc 6 months ago
scary looking gym
STARSandBARS1994 6 months ago
Wing chun sucks.
evelsteev 7 months ago
@evelsteev On the mat, it really does...out on the streets it has sevred me well.
nabapoisu 7 months ago
full mount in 10 sec ^^
bojing747 7 months ago
i recognize this room... must be Queens PEC...
TheRealNT 8 months ago
@TheRealNT I kinda heard they speak norwegian and/or sweedish, so how does that fit in on you theory :)
arjonass85 6 months ago
theres a simple way to counter a takedown, MOVE OUT OF THE WAY. stop trying to stand there and block everything like ip man. just sidestep that shit and wait on a strike, and if he manages to get close to take yout down you can just take a step backwards and he cant lift you, and you can elbow his back if you want.
AsG1989 8 months ago
@AsG1989
you'll just fall down, it happens all the time. anything other than a sprawl or perfectly time knee is just asking for an eventual takedown
TruNikkaz 8 months ago
let me guess hes training jujitsu now?
lagook 8 months ago
You cant use wing chun in competitions or with MMA rules or to even just spar it's just far to ''DEADLY'',, Now let me get my training gear and head off to a chi sau compertition and win with my patty cake skills
ramp31 8 months ago
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ramp31 8 months ago
One thing nobody ever seems to get in these challenge videos is this is on a padded matt. I love BJJ and many other arts but on asphalt, hardwood, or concrete you are probably doing more damage to yourself than the opponet. Look at .08 in when he shoots up then lets his body weight drive his knees right into the ground. Yah, that can work but if you did this on concrete. Well you probably just broke a kneecap so who really wins here. WC and BJJ still great arts though.
Tarc5150 8 months ago
@Tarc5150 umm dude how about the part where he slams him into the ground? ps everyone knows this and would use a diff throw? seo nagi, osoto gari perhaps?
lagook 8 months ago
@lagook
I guess a seo nagi would be better but still going to hurt like hell on concrete. In an ideal situation I would just go for an old fashioned hip throw and let the ground do the damage to my attacker.
Tarc5150 8 months ago
@Tarc5150 umm i thnk your confusing a dropping seo nagi with the normal one , seo nagi is basically a hip throw but combined with an arm drag
lagook 8 months ago
@lagook
Possibly. I thought your knee still got dragged along the ground. Either way I don't think everyone know to change the throw. I live in LA and BJJ has become so watered down out here. We have blue belts running schools out here and they are on every corner. I must drive past 10 BJJ schools on my way home from work every night and I'm not sure if one has a qualified instructor teaching.
Tarc5150 8 months ago
@Tarc5150 my teachers teacher was a blue belt when he started teaching and well lol if you know bjj you know who bita is :D watering down ...that can be said about any martial art and bjj as a sport is taking over the self defence aspect , im shodan in japanese jujitsu and blue in bjj/gjj,as well as striking styles i train, the seo nagi is taught in both and in judo as a hip style throw and the dropping is taught much later in both, but again without the gi its much harder
lagook 8 months ago
The guy of wing tsun its just a begginer... the grappler dude has more experience fighting,,, the difference was obviously... the wing tsun guy doesnt know how to punch even,,,
oOEzyoOo 8 months ago
Unfortunately a lot of style of the martial art like karate, Kung Fu, wushu, aikido ( etc) won't teach you ground fighting because it's not in the style so when you get challenged by a grappler you lose the match automatically
apsjr1 8 months ago
I always thought the best combination would be American Boxing + Judo + BJJ
nbtyuiop 8 months ago
wing chung only works in kung fu movies i like kung fu movies heaps of action seens
tidowt 9 months ago
@tidowt Wrong. Wing Chun is a part of Kung Fu, Kung Fu is a part of Martial Arts. The definition of Wing Chun is Offensive defending, take a opponent out as soon as possible.
Obviously in this video the BJJ fighter has advanced his fighting style more that the Wing Chun fighter, he needs to learn more, I already saw it in his stance.
Expirience it one time mate, you will love it :) And remember, Wing Chun is not a sport, it's a way of live that makes you a Human Weapon.
Peace!
eppsislike 8 months ago
OK this time Im gonna back up the wing chun dude. Its not really a fair fight if you are a bjj blue belt and he has only traing for 18 monthes. hardly a fair fight at all.
rabiddogblizzard1 9 months ago
@rabiddogblizzard1 Agreed, the more traditional arts like WC, karate, etc. have a slower learning process, because the training focus (proficiency) is different from more modern arts like BJJ (combat readiness). Not better or worse, just different, since both goals can be addressed in all the arts For guys who want to learn how to handle themselves in a shorter amount of time, they prefer more modern arts. Others who want to focus on mastery of technique and of self, they do TMA's.
deek77 9 months ago
@deek77 Thats not true at all.
I learn modern martial arts to be able to handle myself in a short amount of time AND to focus on mastery of technique and self.
SkemeKOS 9 months ago
@SkemeKOS Let me clarify: I'm saying modern arts like MMA/BJJ take a more direct approach to combat than the more traditional arts do. Traditional arts do forms and such for the purpose of perfecting technique, while the modern seeks optimal fighting skill above all else. Never said mastery isn't a goal of modern arts, because it stands to reason you want to be proficient. As I said, both goals can be addressed in all fighting systems; it's what each style emphasizes that makes them different.
deek77 9 months ago
@deek77
I understand what youre saying, but In many of the modern arts learned, there are training equivalents to the traditional martial arts forms.
In BJJ for example, there are such things as ego less sparring, and many other things that are similar.
They even practice a lot of animal movements to help master the ground movements.
You see, its a lengthy process to MASTER a lot of modern styles too.
SkemeKOS 9 months ago
@SkemeKOS Perhaps I came off wrong, because I agree concerning mastery of any art. All I was trying to say is that both traditional and modern have similar goals - fighting skill in the short-term, mastery in the long term - they just have different paths acheiving those goals.
deek77 9 months ago
@rabiddogblizzard1
A blue belt in BJJ is the only the 1st belt after white belt.
It takes less than a year to get a blue belt in BJJ, so the wing chun guy had more experience.
Looks like you need to back the BJJ guy instead.
SkemeKOS 9 months ago
Comment removed
sgtpsycho2008 9 months ago
but its not a real combat situtation is it! like all these things its a friendly spar. all fights have a referee, when your fighting for survival where there are no rules or referees then everything changes. once u have the tools there are no rules.
gungriffin2005 10 months ago
Makes no sense at all. What's the point in training if nothing you train will work in a "real fight"? It's obviously you've never fought a day in your life and are just speaking from your ass. Go show your "no rules" shit in a video or shut the hell up, you blowhard.
kommisar 9 months ago
@kommisar how do u know if wing chun works or not?
ikcjjtt 9 months ago
Did you watch the fucking video?
kommisar 9 months ago
@ikcjjtt
Did you even watch this video, my friend?
SkemeKOS 9 months ago
@SkemeKOS honestly speaking, no. One guy on one video does not represent wing chun all over the world. I train in catch wresling and JKD (uses many wing chun principles). So i know for a fact wing chun can work when trained properly. And no, wing chun doesnt work on the ground, hence why i take catch wresling and didn't watch the video.
ikcjjtt 9 months ago
@gungriffin2005
Exactly.
This wing chun guy wouldve been KILLED if there were no rules.
These wing chun guys need to learn how to fight with rules before trying their art on the street where there are no rules.
SkemeKOS 9 months ago
Very nice! As a wing chunner, I have to say it is difficult to find groundwork in wc, but it is there, just like it is in any other martial art. Most people taking wc however, don't seem to spend much time on the ground...there are only so many things to do on the ground, just gotta get down there an doem!
samuski36 10 months ago
hmmm! wc take down defence knee strike when charged, upper cut when charged or simply owning the other persons space which is wing chun, simples
gungriffin2005 10 months ago
@gungriffin2005 hmmmm! didn't look so easy in a real combative situation did it?
MrPhrogphurter 10 months ago
@gungriffin2005
Those are all LOW PERCENTAGE moves for defending against a takedown.
I'll give you a hint - SPRAWL! SPRAWL! SPRAWL!
SkemeKOS 9 months ago
I did WC/WT for years before switching over to MMA. I love Wing Chun but the bottom line is it has no idea how to defend a takedown.
littlbigd 11 months ago
@littlbigd well i would say maybe your school didnt and this kid didnt, a lot of WC/WT has lower stances as well as higher, there were even trips and throws when i attended one of WT's seminars, i dont train in WC and im not starting a contest i just find it very strange that you would train for years and never get taught a single defense for a charge or low take down and i would pick a few up from a single seminar....
Taud 11 months ago
@littlbigd How would one go about defending a takedown my good sir?
usachad1 10 months ago
@usachad1 Take down defense. You have to learn to wrestle if you want to stay on your feet. WC is suppose to be a 4 range system but it is only (very) effective at one range - infighting. If you get closer WC loses. If you get further WC loses.
littlbigd 10 months ago
@littlbigd Thanks man.
usachad1 10 months ago
@usachad1
SPRAWL! SPRAWL! SPRAWL!!!!
SkemeKOS 9 months ago
What is the story behind this anyway?
Godsmasher22 11 months ago
ah f**k it i had some speal all typed out but you know what.......... i just dont give a f**k right now, yeah.... that just about says it, but yeah......pce.
sgtpsycho2008 11 months ago
i could easily take him off me
xeniosm 11 months ago
wing chun sucks ass. BJJ ROCKS
Kodyr710 11 months ago
This aint shit lol
MrSouthphillyitalian 11 months ago
is this a single leg take-down ?
dreamcastII 11 months ago
you all seem to forget the biggest argument killer of all in this area, your discussions are all related to combat SPORT!! theaz no rules or illegal/unfair shots in real combat no matter how good u are at watever art u practice sports still have rules. ground works no good if the guy manages to bite an ear of or worse a nut. any1 can beat any1. it all depends on the moment
manakehua 11 months ago
jujitsu kicks ass so bad that wing chung guy did not stand a chance as most of the moves relie on a standing posision
callumdiggle 1 year ago
it goes like this people:
Both > Grappling > Striking
a pure grappler will beat a pure striker almost every time, but someone that knows both will be more effective than either purist
TruNikkaz 1 year ago 13
@TruNikkaz I agree that both will be more effective than a purist, but both grappling or striking techniques have their own techniques to work against the other, so you can't make that assumption, as there are only fighters that are stronger than others, not styles.
MrChumFm 8 months ago
@MrChumFm
9/10 the pure grappler will beat the pure striker. i can def make that assumption, and i myself have a striking background prior to my grappling training. of course the ratio of the level of striker and grappler matters, but a mediocre grappler has a greater chance against an amazing striker than an amazing grappler vs a mediocre striker
TruNikkaz 8 months ago
(Part 1) All traditional Chinese martial arts contain four basic categories of fighting skills: shuai (wrestling), na(seizing and locking), ti(kicking), and da(striking). The amount of emphasis placed on each category depends on two factors: the style of martial art and the individual martial artist. Wing Chun itself is a principle-based martial art that takes little shape or form; it has great potential be extremely versatile.
ForwardIntent 8 months ago
@ForwardIntent (Part 2) However, most practitioners only practice striking and barely any kicking. Many even believe grappling is non-existent in Wing Chun. These people are ignorant to their own martial art and limit themselves to only surface-level proficiency. Another problem is that these people with their ineffective mindset do not even practice free sparring; the furthest they get is sticky-hand sparring, then they think they can fight.
ForwardIntent 8 months ago
@ForwardIntent (Part 3) Wrestling is special against kicking and striking; kicking and striking is special against seizing and locking. These these categories mutually support and conquer each other just like rock-paper-scissors. This is basic knowledge. You can't just rely on rock. You can't just rely on paper. You can't just rely on scissors. Likewise, a proficient fighter is well-versed in all categories.
ForwardIntent 8 months ago
@ForwardIntent (Part 4) 99% of the Wing Chun practitioners that I've seen and practiced with limit themselves to only striking and BARELY any kicking. What the fuck is going on?
ForwardIntent 8 months ago
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@ForwardIntent (Part 5) EDIT Part 3: Wrestling is special against kicking and striking; kicking and striking is special against seizing and locking, AND SEIZING AND LOCKING IS SPECIAL AGAINST WRESTLING.
ForwardIntent 8 months ago
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TruNikkaz 8 months ago
@ForwardIntent
I don't doubt it, but it seems that Wing Chun in it's modern dojo form is focused solely on simple strikes and flashy strikes.
i know it's much more capable than that. but jiu jitsu is mostly a grappling discipline. unless someone trains in grappling to an extent, they are defenseless
TruNikkaz 8 months ago
@TruNikkaz ... This statement is only true when addressed to a competition fights, as the moves a striker would use against a grappler are, by in large, illegal or constituting a foul. At 0:05 the striker could have used elbows to: break both collar bones, back of head knockout, strike to spine. Brought up a knee to; break nose, strike solar plexus. Or; grabbed hair, ears, eyes, snapped neck. Most of which "disqualify". There are no rules in a real fight.
auz268 8 months ago
@auz268 So much easier said than done, trust me.
Empyriummann 8 months ago
@Empyriummann I completely agree. (I apologize if I get too Systema in this response) You must remember that a "take down" is still a strike. Any strike powerful enough to hurt/effect your body, has enough energy to hurt/effect your opponents body. A TD is no faster than a kick. If you can redirect the energy of a kick, you can redirect a TD. The only difference being a TD requires full commitment, and adjusts center of balance to a forward point away from feet; thus begging for counter attack.
auz268 8 months ago
@auz268 The problem is that there is no guarantee you're gonna knock out your opponent with a kick or a punch, most of the time you won't even if you get a punch in, whereas a grappler has pretty much won the fight when gets a TD against a striker, real life or not, it's not easy to beat a grappler if you're not trained in grappling, it's best to know both.
Empyriummann 8 months ago
@auz268 I would agree to a point but this guy didn't seem to have any experience with grapplers. Although I have messed up against wrestlers I managed to get away. I know enough to stay standing or at least get in a better position. Once he was on his back he had no idea what he was doing I at least know ways to get out from under people. My Sifu did Jujitsu before doing Wing Chun we had a few classes on throws and grappling but not that many. He chooses to teach Wing Chun over anything else.
wolf3001 7 months ago
@TruNikkaz not muay thai
Mxkid1999 8 months ago
@Mxkid1999
of course muay thai
TruNikkaz 8 months ago
@TruNikkaz A pure grappler wins...on the MAT*. I'd like to see anyone throw their bodies around on concrete. Striking arts win on the streets.
bunnieseatliverspots 6 months ago
@bunnieseatliverspots
and being good at grappling vs someone who doesn't grapple makes it to where no bodies get 'thrown around' it results in a mount as seen here. if you haven't seen a street fight go to the ground before, then you obviously have never been in a real fight your entire life
TruNikkaz 6 months ago
Comment removed
bunnieseatliverspots 6 months ago
@TruNikkaz When you can't get a hold on someone, what good does grappling do?? Real Wing Chun teaches 'anti-grappling': grab breaks, shifts in stances,etc. When my good friend invited me to his bjj class, none of the students there could get a hold on me. Wing Chun also has its own joint manipulation/ grappling curriculum; we just like to avoid ground fighting because it's a nasty situation when you're not on the mat. That's why people who don't know wing chun shouldn't claim otherwise on YT.
bunnieseatliverspots 6 months ago
@bunnieseatliverspots
lol. your claims mean dick on the internet
and you have never been to a bjj class if they couldn't 'get a hold of you' simply because your first class wouldn't start with taking people down
and secondly, grab 'breaks?' sounds like some bullshit wing chun. why don't you look at the sean guy who was a black belt in wing chun and had to learn bjj to graple at all in mma?
"he was prolly from a mcdojo" yeah yeah yeah, same excuses as all the other tma fags
TruNikkaz 6 months ago 7
@TruNikkaz sean obasi can win against a BJJ guy using purely wing chun. He just does it quick enough that they can't do a takedown. he has a video like that on his youtube profile. :)
neutrino78x 6 months ago
@TruNikkaz You're really stupid. period. Every word that just spewed from your keyboard is ass-backwards. Bring your grappling bullshit this way anytime and make a fool of yourself. I've seen my instructor stomp mma, jeet kun do, kuntao, jujitsu practitioners; I can send you videos to prove it. You're comments are as ignorant as your online identity. 'TRUNIKKAS'..how enlightened. I'm pretty sure you don't know your ass from your elbow in terms of martial arts, sooo. Thank you for your insight.
bunnieseatliverspots 6 months ago
@TruNikkaz So because one black belt in WC had to learn the rules of BJJ to compete with BJJ hes automatically and idiot and cant fight?
Theres "rules" in MMA man, thats probably what he had to learn was what he CANT do in the ring
No i dont train WC i just see nothing but shit talk coming from these no name gyms that are suddenly teaching kickbox and jujutsu because its popular currently, u know how many JKD schools opened up after the bruce lee craze? same shit with the UFC
Taud 6 months ago
@Taud
yeah, but we have proof that this new 'craze' works, where-as bruce lee had action movies
i've already covered the parts where pretty much every single style of fighter has to learn to fight within the rules. and if wing chun has nothing to offer outside of killing people or using dirty tactics, then you are proving my point on it's effectiveness. you know that killing someone with a knife or gun is just as legal as using your own hands, right?
TruNikkaz 6 months ago
@TruNikkaz bruce lee actually had the most gyms across america and canada at one point in time man.... not just movies, EVERYONE wanted to practice this jeet kune do, this amazing new style
By the way killing someone with a knife or gun is NOT the same, Using a weapon versus your fists is a totally different case in court and they would treat it as such, now of course if the other person has a knife or a gun too it wouldnt matter, but you havent taken a law class before now have you?
Taud 6 months ago
@Taud
yeah because of movies, not proof
and yes i have, killing in self defense varies upon circumstances, and typically any situation grave enough for you to use your hands to kill someone, it's equally as legal to kill them with a weapon
stop acting like you know shit, you're an idiot at best
TruNikkaz 6 months ago
@TruNikkaz Well keep in mind your countries rules dont apply for all of us, so really youre the idiot assuming we all have the same laws
where do you live that the courts wouldnt consider it a different case if you killed someone who didnt have a weapon with one?
Taud 6 months ago
@Taud
never said they didnt have a weapon dipshit
but it's still murder/manslaughter to kill an unarmed man with your bare hands
TruNikkaz 6 months ago
@TruNikkaz Dip shit? you cant have a debate without schoolyard name calling eh?
You can talk about all your little hypothetical situations all you want, a ring fight is a sport at the end of the day
The only proof is a referee's decision
Taud 6 months ago
@Taud
i'm calling you a dipshit because it's so obvious that you're just some self-proclaimed fight philospher and you are telling me that in a situation in which it's ok to kill anyone, using a weapon wouldn't be more effective.
idiot.
you're making points that i'm already aware of. competing isn't a street fight. but all the stuff that isn't allowed and most effective is gifted to the better grappler. and in the street those locks or chokes wouldnt have been ref decisions. death or injury
TruNikkaz 6 months ago
@Taud Yep, he had to learn BJJ to get to know what he wasn't allowed to do in the ring. Learn an entire new MA for that. Just telling him "please don't kick people in the balls" wouldn't have sufficed. Seriously, that was an excellent example of using strawmen in a discussion. If someone is excellent in amateur or professional in-ring or in-cage fighting, he's a good fighter because he knows how to subdue a VERY non-compliant opponent and knows how it feels to get hit, among other reasons.
Azatdawn 6 months ago
@Azatdawn Yeah you do actually have to learn an entirely new art, its not just "dont kick in the balls" it goes onto headbutts and dis allowing stomping or kicking while the opponent is down, it favors the grappling rules of the gracie judo it was founded on so no that would not suffice.... im not sure where youre coming from on that one, he knows how to subdue them using the rules and if you pay attention 90% of them use the cage walls to help pull moves off, its a sport within rules
Taud 6 months ago
@Taud It might be a sport within rules, but it is still an excellent way to test your fighting abilities against an opponent who's in most cases out to harm you. You seem to go the "too deadly for the ring" route, which is bullshit, sorry. Watch the first ufc's where eye gouges etc. where allowed. Wait, who one those? Ah right, there was some grappler dude... Gradie or Grapie, something like that.
Azatdawn 6 months ago
@Azatdawn LOL that was your own little quote there not mine"too deadly for the ring", the first ufc did not allow eye gouging thats whats bullshit i remember the first fights and the old ring they did have a bit rougher rules than now no weight class and etc but nah it wasnt some savage cage fight like youre making it out to be gracie was one of the people who helped build the ufc the rules were built around the judo grappling rules which is where BJJ comes from it favors that style even today
Taud 6 months ago
@Taud Alright. Tell me about your martial arts experiences.
Azatdawn 6 months ago
@Taud Also, yes, I was wrong there before. Eye gouging and biting were prohibited, basically everything else was alright though.
Azatdawn 6 months ago
@Azatdawn Well you raise some interesting points though my good sir, its definitely a fighting style that can be used, i dont debate that, i just like to try and recognize something designed around modern safety rules and something that was used in street fighting situations are two very different things, i myself am actually a judo student, i know the power of choking the blood and air out of someone, some holds wouldnt be possible in an alley or street is my main topic here
Taud 6 months ago
@Taud Judo, that's pretty great. I wish I had the time to study Judo, I'd think it'd be pretty awesome to round my skills as I'm mostly training thaiboxing at the moment. Anyway, why do you think that some holds would not be possible in an alley? And... have you ever tried sparring with a wing chun guy?
Azatdawn 6 months ago
@Azatdawn the teachers in judo make all the difference, try to get someone who doesnt teach a kids class, theyll be more serious. sadly no ive never gotten to spar someone who knows real WC ive looked around for it and only found people who just claim to have learned it from a person who didnt exist, a lot try and learn from books and the internet than teach. One thing WC unfortunately has is a lot of wanna be's, asian MA in general have lots of fakes Ashida kim,Stephen hayes,Christa jacobson
Taud 6 months ago
@TruNikkaz you know that jujutsu is a TMA, right?
pacificimporters 5 months ago
@pacificimporters
i wasn't bashing TMA, im just tired of these guys chiming in on every video of a representative of their art losing some sort of match and making excuses while bashing the winner's art. i haven't seen anyone except butthurt TMA dudes do this
TruNikkaz 5 months ago
@TruNikkaz hehe, train BJJ in Brasil and your first class does indeed involve taking people down.
TheEskimosPantry 4 months ago
@TheEskimosPantry
yeah well wing chun wrist looping wont help against a takedown. and these guys seem to think a knee is the cure for it, but they're wrong. its a chance of course, but if you miss, you gave them a clean takedown
TruNikkaz 4 months ago
@TruNikkaz In reference to this, there's a reason why he had to take BJJ and was unable to use Wing Tsun. It's because most of the techniques utilized in Wing Tsun are HIGHLY EFFECTIVE AND POTENTIALLY VERY DEADLY.
You know, eye gouges, finger strikes, etc. You MMA zombies glorify BJJ as if it's the most effective form of martial arts. It's really, truly not.
Netlocd 2 months ago
@Netlocd
how many of you butthurt faggots out there cant accept that eye gouges, groin grabbing, throat grabbing and all the most effective deadly tactics favor the person with the better grip (grappler) and pretty much need no training to utilize at all??
the fact that you guys say that wingchun only works if there are no rules proves nothing except that it has nothing to offer except natural common sense self defense tactics. wing chun guys must practice by grabbing each other's ballsacks
TruNikkaz 2 months ago
@bunnieseatliverspots
the lack of knowledge of bjj proves the bullshit status of your claims. but i'll just leave it at that. bjj has all the proof and credit in the world, and all wing chun has is shit talkers like you on youtube and forums
TruNikkaz 6 months ago 19
@TruNikkaz Not only that, but it is used in the Special Forces... along with Krav Maga. Being sent on a special forces mission implies that you have the ability to engage multiple attackers, and Wing Tsun (yes it's TSUN) Kung Fu is proven as being the most effective at doing so.
In a no-rules scenario, all of my money would go down on the Wing Tsun Kung Fu. This means ANY move can be used by the BJJ or KF fighter. Again, my money is on the WTKF fighter. :)
Just sayin'.
Netlocd 2 months ago
@TruNikkaz I was bullied a lot growing up, nobody ever successfully did a takedown on me though. I either dodged them or squirmed away.
neutrino78x 6 months ago
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bunnieseatliverspots 6 months ago
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bunnieseatliverspots 6 months ago
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bunnieseatliverspots 6 months ago
@TruNikkaz MMA/UFC is all about instant gratification. That's why the general consensus of mixed martial artists are under the age of 25--young and stupid. They teach you some fancy moves and make you think you know anything about fighting. They teach you ignorance, friend. For you not to appreciate the true scope of Wing Chun shows your youth and immaturity. The end. Keep trolling all you want. Argument is done. Step off the mat and see how your skills fare.
bunnieseatliverspots 6 months ago
@bunnieseatliverspots
lolol. what you just said the ufc is, is what wing chun actually does. false sense of security, leaving you believing that you can fight.
where-as mma is all full-contact sparring with individuals larger than you half of the time
train however you want to train, but don't expect me to keep my mouth shut when you say retarded shit like "wing chun = anti-grappling" to me, we all know that the best way to avoid a grappler is to learn some grappling
TruNikkaz 6 months ago
@TruNikkaz I do agree that knowing both is the best bet; If this guy really knew wing chun he'd know how to handle himself against a grappler.
bunnieseatliverspots 6 months ago
@bunnieseatliverspots
why? because wing chun has 'no rules'?
well grappling tournaments have rules but all the illegal tactics like groin and throat grabbing, small joint, eye gouging, and fish-hooking are all in favor of the grappler. the strikes available to the positions given to the better grappler also pay an important role in it's effectiveness.
knowing only a striking art that has no realistic full-contact sparring involved is a good way to get seriously hurt by even a novice grappler
TruNikkaz 6 months ago
@TruNikkaz not true at all, pure grappling will always lose to pure striking, it doesnt matter how many grapples you know if u cant throw a punch yur done
Taud 6 months ago
i see how chun sau would work really well when someone takes you down..
because it doesnt need the momentum normal punches does like doing an arc before hitting.. chun sau only needs a straight line to hit, so it's easier to do when grappled down.. compared to normal punching..
so i fail to see why that guy on black didnt even try to punch
ashrocks87 1 year ago
you always want to keep moving around and react quickly against someone using BJJ cause obviously they are going to take you down on the floor. you should already know that and anticipate when the BJJ guy is gonna put his head down and go for your lower body and that's is when you counter him by moving out quicker and give him one big blow to the head/face.
thelovechocolatee 1 year ago
both of these are poor examples of their style and any training they allegedly have.
jeffoo68 1 year ago
That wasnt even wing chun lol
TEB055808 1 year ago
While I absolutely enjoy seeing shitty wing chun guys who can't fight realistically at 5 secs any decent wing chun guy would have at least tried to bridge the gap and launch an attack to avoid being taken down. The only way Wing chun works is to go forward,not back, you would think if you knew your arse was going down you would at least give it a try.
piercedis 1 year ago
How do grapplers do against multiple attackers? My old sensei, who was Kyokushinkai, with some TKD and Kuntaw training, could consistently kick the crap out of 3 of us.
nezpercenathan 1 year ago
@nezpercenathan That's different. I do Krav Maga and we fight from everywhere... standing up or in the ground. However we avoid taking the fight to the ground if we're fighting multiple opponents, But let's say you have to subdue a drunken friend then ground fighting and submitions work better.
pantherablaze 1 year ago
@pantherablaze Good point. I used to watch Royce Gracie in some of the early UFC, and admired his ability to tap out guys who outweighed him by 50-100 lbs., but later I started thinking "if there were two of them, one could be kicking his head in, while he was keeping the other one in the guard" I guess you really need some of both striking and grappling.
nezpercenathan 1 year ago
Drop root and jum sau when he shoots in, elbow the back of the neck. Try again wearing face shields for your grappler friend so you can kick and punch it will disrupt his root on shoot and make him have to reset before trying another takedown.
SiJe76 1 year ago
Watching this and the sequel it's pretty clear the BJJ dude has some kickboxing training too (possibly Muay Thai) so it's more like "WC vs. MMA". High-line feint into double-leg takedown is pure Royce Gracie but the guy's stance is more (kick)boxing based. Also as people pointed out, none of the usual WC nasties like eye, groin or throat strikes. Still, good demo.
StraightOuttaCrofton 1 year ago
Boring sport fight the streets tell a differnt tail. That is why anything can work and the theory people place on bjj as being the best is trully blind. Intell you fight for your life your only playing a childs game.
lococavasa 1 year ago
hahah, he wouldn't have needed to take it to the ground as he was winning the stand up as well.
MasterWarri 1 year ago
striking is never the answer for grappling, espesially when the striker doesn't show any grappling ability, I train muay thai and bjj and did kung fu
besides; the wing chun style of walking towards your opponent with your hands strait out in front of you is a perfect match for bjj
marsy91 1 year ago
not disrepecting the W.C guy but he isnt vry gd 2nd i train in both W.C &BJJ so listn W,C is not a sport art it has a lot of strikes @ the eyes throat,knees i can tell u in a real fight it wud not b a gd idea to rush in on a vry exprcd W.C guy like he did on here iv fought in the ring boxing in the military and on the strreets and believe me u dnt really wna b on the ground i really hope that this wana b ufc culture undrstds its a diffrnt world on the streets than the octagon
gemneye12000 1 year ago
Wing chun is rubbish, its a piss weak style that isnt any good against any1 except a monkey, we all end up fighting the same, it just takes some styles longer to get there (WC ect )
1fitkbox 1 year ago