Willem Mengelberg conducts Mahler Symphony 4; part 1 of 6

[Hexachloraphine]

Thank you guys-from space! this really is most fascinating.

surprising fidelity considering the age of the recording.

[offyougonow1007]

As those of us know, who have read and much researched Mahler, the maestro was indeed close friends with Mengleberg and I don't believe that Mengleberg would intentionally "disrespect" Mahler. Instead, I read that recording Mahler's rather large symphonies was difficult, in the infant days of LP's, as there was not sufficient space on a "side" to adequately cover a lengthy Mahler recording. My guess is, Columbia (CBS) asked Mengleberg to pare down the Mahler 4th for recording purposes.

[themindandmusic]

@offyougonow1007 this is a live recording, you know. Plus, this was the 1940's. So I think there wasn't much interference by recording practices in this interpretation..... purely Mengelberg's artistry.

[offyougonow1007]

As those of us know, who have read and much researched Mahler, the maestro was indeed close friends with Mengleberg and I don't believe that Mengleberg would intentionally "disrespect" Mahler. Instead, I read that recording Mahler's rather large symphonies was difficult, in the infant days of LP's, as there was not sufficient space on a "side" to adequately cover a lengthy Mahler recording. My guess is, Columbia (CBS) asked Mengleberg to pare down the Mahler 4th for recording purposes.

[saunsnaen]

What conductor most accurately observes Mahler's intensive markings? I would guess Bernstein who was such an admirer but don't know. Mahler frequently praised conductors in their preparation of an orchestra for the composer's appearance to conduct a symphony of his own. But Mahler usually demanded a number of rehearsals for himself.

[cornelis1901]

This Interpretetation is really nice. Mengelberg was a great conductor.

[kobiianardo]

mahler makes me want to hear mengelberg

[thonyus]

There is a difference between interpretation and rewriting. Mengelberg here not only ignores dozens of Mahler's own markings (mostly dynamics), but imposes even more of his own making, especially regarding tempo. If Mahler marks something, he wants it, but since he marks so much, even more important is what he doesn't want. But this conductor supposes that he knows what Mahler wants better than Mahler. I am absolutely unsatisfied by this egotistical reading; it is a glorious symphony otherwise.

[themfromspace]

@thonyus This is fit for the time. People today feel they have to be slaves to the written score but at the beginning of the 20th century most performers and composers expected their works to be interpreted in such a manner. To think Mahler demanded strict adheration to the score is foolish when his own piano roll recordings show that he took liberties with the tempo and did not adhere to his own markings. A contemporary perspective on the issue can be found at this article bit dot ly/aT5S1v

[thonyus]

@themfromspace I am not advocating being a slave to the score.A blueprint for a building is not set in stone, but mess with it enough and the building will topple;this conductor is pushing it a bit. If the only true judge of a recording is a listener's reaction, this sounded rather contrived to me, but possibly I am too much in love with my own interpretation.I found Mahler's piano rolls not very extreme at all, though very interesting; not nearly as extreme as this.Whatever; to each his/her own

[mishugina]

@thonyus I suggest you do some research on Mengelberg's history of conducting this symphony. Do try to read what 2nd violinist has written thank you!

[themindandmusic]

@thonyus yes it is an "egotistical reading," That's what makes this so great

[cornelis1901]

@thonyus

Willem Mengelberg has talked with Mahler himself about the interpretation of the symphony, so maybe Mahler wants the interpretation really like this!

[CurzonRoad]

@thonyus

Can't disagree... quite different from the version I return to again and again... Claudio Abbado w/BPO. Thank you themgromspace for posting, and thank you thonyus for the apt commentary.

[2ndviolinist]

From "The Mahler Symphonies"

A synoptic survey by Tony Duggan

Mengelberg sat in the audience in Amsterdam in 1904 to hear Mahler conduct the symphony. He attended the rehearsals, discussed the work with Mahler, and made copious notes in his score with Mahler's co-operation. Mahler in turn had a very high opinion of Mengelberg's conducting of his music so any recording by the Dutchman must carry a degree of authenticity but with the caveats that need to be applied to that word in this context.

[alleespach]

Now i understand why Pierre Boulez said that he would never conduct the symphony the way Mengelberg did, even if Mengelberg's conception of the piece was closer to Mahler's own than his.

[2ndviolinist]

He couldn't if he tried. Mengelberg was a raving genius!

[medmai]

exactly, forget boulez!

[violashizzle]

Damn straight, and Boulez's Mahler is a utterly catastrophic and unbelievably ugly!

[BesACB]

Bedaechtig, nicht eilend but a bit jumpy! Loads of character though!

[bluemando]

I heard many interpretations of this Mahler symphony and must say this one by Mengelberg is like none I ever heard. Fascinating!

[isobel87]

Do you know what CD this extract is from please?

[Hexachloraphine]

It's Quite Entrancing...

Many many thanks.

[YTM021807]

Truly amazing subtlety

Awesome clarity. Lovingly made, congratulations!!

Thanks!

[spitzenleiter]

I'd like to express deep gratitude and

appreciation for your uploading such a

splendid music. 

Thanks from the Far East.