Bad Penny Blues

[stwads]

Is it trueJoe Meek was the sound engineer or producer on this?

[jphar]

@stwads It would appear to be so according to the earliest of cmments about the number.

john harrison

[stwads]

@jphar

Yes I see now. thanks!

[zack157]

@stwads My reliable source in print states Joe Meek as producer.

[iangordoncraig]

@stwads Yes it's true, Joe Meek produced and mixed this. Lyttleton hated the mix, cos Joe had amped up the brushes and the piano left hand. Apparently jazz "purists" don't do that. But the result was and is a minor masterpiece because of Joe meek.

[bloodnokian]

@stwads Yes he was and it was his idea to compress the piano and bring it to the front of the song. In hindsight, the intro riff sounds like McCartney stole it and changed it a bit for Lady Madonna.

[stwads]

@bloodnokian Yes it does doesn't it!!

[909chuck]

P.201 of THE ROUGH GUIDE TO THE BEATLES gives credit of Madonna sound to suggestion made by George Martin WHO WAS AT THE '55 RECORDING OF BAD PENNY BLUES. Now let's try to get along and agree music, like language, shares many similar ideas and borrowings, homages, etc.

[ferocel]

I just read that Joe Meek engineered this. Apparently he enhanced the piano sound - unpopular move with everyone except the record-buying public ......

[jasonpfinch]

piano blues. Rips off NOLA stuff with the muted trumpet added, but nice,

[Django5198]

They played this at my neighbours funeral on Thursday. Great piece!

[steve4656]

Quite amusing all this talk of The Beatles stealing from Bad Penny Blues for Lady Madonna. Perhaps the estate of Harry James should sue the estate of Humphrey Littleton for stealing Boo Woo and Woo Woo

[firestartertwistedfi]

does this have words? or has anyone tried to put words to it?

[colindaleradiosutch]

COLIN DALE RADIO SUTCH, THE GREAT HUMP LYTTELTON - BAD PENNY BLUES. JUST LOVE THE GUY ! In the nicest possible way.

[TheSteveCock]

Hey folks. Check out my glorious mental breakdown by typing in 'Beatles Candlestick 3'



[OropherThranduil]

well, sorry for that jphar, but that steveconn always writes shit about the beatles on so many videos, this here must be the 20th time i read the stuff he writes, and nothing of it is ever true.

[angusthescribe]

You can argue the Who and What till the cows come home .

I'm 66 and this was the first record I ever bought and I still love it.

Listened to this while the beatles and stones were still trying to tune their guitars.

Humph and the old crowd sadly missed

[redsnapper1959]

Clarinettist Wally Fawkes was also known as "Trog" ... the name under which he drew the satirical Flook cartoons in the Daily Mail for several years.

[gemini1100]

to the person who said johnny parker was his gt uncle, I would like to say how sorry I am to hear the sad news re your great uncle. I used to know him in the 50s and 60s great pianist and a great bloke.

[krissyjeshi]

This song inspired The Beatles piano riff in Lady Madonna, its not like they stole it. The Beatles are the best in the World, anywhere you go you will find something that supports me. On the top 500 song in the world by the rolling stones magazine, The Beatles have more songs on the list than anyone. I think everyone should stop hating The Beatles and give them a break.

[temujin701]

The Beatles were brilliant innovaters- the Stones and Animals were entertaining but ultimately are inferior to the Beatles b/c they were derivative and unoriginal

[temujin701]

The blues is inherited- everyone "steals" but the heritage continues into new generations. To fault Paul for using this opening piano riff in Lady Madonna is to lack understanding of how music happens

[MsAppassionata]

@temujin701 Just read your post for "Bad Penny Blues" and I couldn't agree with you more. As I have said elsewhere, even Beethoven "borrowed" from Mozart. One is influenced by one's predecessors and takes things to the next level. That's how music progresses, for those who don't know. Besides, it's not really stealing if you put you own spin on it.

[SwamplandRecordsLtd]

in an interview with him, he says that he was once at the BBC and the Beatles were rehearsing in the studios. As the beatles walked out, they walked past Lyttleton, and Lennon walked past, looked at him, winked, and said "Bad Penny Blues"

[dachille1]

@SwamplandRecordsLtd So Lennon winked and said Bad Penny Blues. What does that mean? The man was famous for that song. Are you implying they were guilty because they acknowledged the man?

[BritishTwili09]

My great uncle Johnny parker actualy wrote this song but Humphrey Lyttleton got all the credit!

[Herringish]

Haha! Really does sound like Lady Madonna! Sweet

[jphar]

@Herringish 'cept that the jazz was 12 years before lady 'M'

[Herringish]

@jphar I'm fully aware of that, Captain Obvious

[chrisfortyfive]

@Herringish also TVC15.

[MCCXK120]

If anyone thinks Bad Penny Blues sounds anything like Lady Madonna they badly need a hearing test.

[Herringish]

@MCCXK120 Well, it does, Fact. Proven. Everyone agrees. Because it does.

[TheCrazyman1997]

@Herringish - you must be on your grans medication for thinking that it sounds like the beatles version for a couple of reasons:

1. its in a completely different key

2.your gay?

3. how old are you? i think around six for having that created animated animal crap on your wall.Somthing my 4 year old cousin would be interested in. Because it does.

[jonnybrowne]

@Herringish No, Lady Madonna sounds like this....

[claudiomerlin]

Mr. Dan Burley made the original riff... Who stole who?? Bullshit... they were all great.

[claudiomerlin]

Mr. Dan Burley made the original riff... Who stole who?? Bullshit... they were all great.

[alanvking]

Engineered by Joe Meek incidentally..great job considering the year.

[M32Steven]

okay, yes. Paul borrowed some of the melody in lady madonna from this. big deal. it's not like he said "I WROTE EVERY ASPECT OF LADY MADONNA"; he openly that he got some of the song from this song.

What's the big deal? They're both great and both orginal, even if this one is more so.

[dachille1]

@M32Steven Paul said he was inspired by Bad Penny Blues.

[SonicBulletUK]

@dachille1 ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. LM was inspired/influenced by BPB. NOT copied/ripped off/stolen etc. There is a difference. Just like thousands of 60's hits/bands were INSPIRED/INFLUENCED by the Beatles. In fact, almost everything in art is influenced by something that came before it. It's human nature. There are just varying degrees of influence before they become a copy. Steveconn below is quite correct. The only parts of a song that are protected by copyright is the melody and lyric.

[steveconn]

Man, Lytteton should have sued Paul. That opening riff was lifted whole for Madonna's main melody. And to think Lennon accused the Stones of copying everything the Beatles did; what a hypocrite.

[jphar]

I agree, the beatles were never as good as the Stones or the Animals.

John

[grim107]

@steveconn Lady Madonna really doesn't sound so much like this. Even the opening of this song only bares a slight resemblance to Lady Madonna. McCartney definitely would not have gotten the pants sued off of him for infringement as others have claimed.

[steveconn]

@grim107

You kidding? He tweaked the melody a bit, but the bass piano and snare rhythm of Lady Madonna all Bad Penny Blues. Paul must have been really desperate that week to do such a blatant lift.

[dachille1]

@steveconn It is not a blatant lift. The melody is completely different. You are obviously not a musician. To fault Paul for being inspired to write a song in the same style shows a lack understanding of music. He didn't "tweak" the melody. Paul's melody is completely original. When you use a similar rhythm, that is not considered a lift at all. Its done every day by musicians. You can't copyright a rhythm. And by the way, Bad Penny Blues was inspired by even earlier big band recordings.

[dachille1]

@steveconn The bass piano is played by the left hand and it is part of the rhythm of the song only. It is a boogie woogie piano style that neither Humphrey Lyttleton or anyone else could copyright or sue over. It has nothing to do with the melody that Paul is playing in Lady Madonna. The melody is just not there in Bad Penny Blues. In fact, I think Lady Madonna is a better song. Bad Penny Blues only made No. 19 in Britain. Lady Madonna was No. 1 all over the world.

[OropherThranduil]

@steveconn

good joke, without the beatles there would be no stones.

[steveconn]

@OropherThranduil

Not really. The Stones were already building a huge reputation in London clubs in '63 with their R&B covers and had a #29 hit with Chuck Berry's "Come On."

The Beatles gave them one song, "I Wanna Be Your Man." One lent song does not make a band.

[OropherThranduil]

@steveconn

but george harrison, asked by the heads of decca records to give them a band they can get under contract, naming the stones, that makes a band.

[steveconn]

@OropherThranduil

It's not as if the Stones, with lines streaming out of overpacked clubs, wouldn't have received a record contract in a year or so anyway. The 'Stones owing the Beatles their lives' was stoked by Lennon after he became a Yoko-dottering recluse and the Stones continued to carry on with their chart-topping lives.

[OropherThranduil]

@steveconn

look, after just 7 years of recording the beatles had build up a legacy that to this day surpasses the stones, they still have sold more records despise the stones having about 30 albums, 10 live albums and 30 compilations, while the bealtes surpassed that with only about 20 official releases, they have the best selling album of the new millenium and they had 27 nr 1 hits in 7 years, while the stones haven't reached 10 1s in 50 years.

[steveconn]

@OropherThranduil

That's because the Beatles are everyone's favorite middle-of-the-road popmeisters, making happy tunes (and a few angry one buried on the White Album) to cheer up every mom, pop, granny, doggie and kitty in the neighborhood; the Stones wrote about the actual grit beneath the bland sunshine and sold far less because of it, but they simply sound more urgent and vital than most sugary, overproduced 'billions and billions served' Beatles albums.

[OropherThranduil]

@steveconn

you're such a fucking joke, yer blues sounds more bluesy than jagger ever got, helter skelter is harder than anything the stones ever played, eleanor rigby os darker than any stones song, but to argue with a stones fanatic is liie arguing with a nazi, they just won't accept the truth, almost as bad as justin bieber fans.

except that the stones are one of the best bands ever, while bieber is a fucking joke, but their fans are kinda like the others.

[steveconn]

@OropherThranduil

Huh? Yer Blues a stodgy, by-the-numbers blues song trying to be like Cream, Skelter just a gruesome mess, lightweights trying to be hard, Eleanor Rigby some polite cellos telling a sad washerwoman's tale; Look out Paint It Black.

Funny you bring up Bieber though, since big-grinning wholesome teen idols would not be where they are today without the family-friendly Lennon & The Chipmunks as a template to guide them on. Play it safe and you will always sell through the rafters.

[jphar]

@OropherThranduil and steveconn.

Why don't you both bugger off anfd fight with each other on your personal messages channel. Jazz fans probably look at this page to listen and read sensible comments

about the recording. I am sure they don't wish to see the mindless utterings of a pair of oiks, who can't communicate without foul-mouthed language. neither of you were around when this music was born, so go away and get some'life' experience. 'Get some in, sonny' as we used to say in the forces.

[123spiker123]

@jphar He's actually correct.. the first big break for the Stones was a cover of The Beatles' song I Wanna be Your Man.

[firestartertwistedfi]

@jphar got out of bed the wrong side when you posted this?

[dachille1]

@steveconn Sorry stevecon but as a musician I cannot see any ripoff at all regarding this piece and Lady Madonna by Paul McCartney and the Beatles. The only similarity is the feel and beat of the recordings. Those things are not copyrightable. The melody which Paul plays as the opening of Lady Madonna is quite dissimilar from this melody. I prefer Lady Madonna to this piece. There is a distinction you are missing between being inspired by a song and lifting it. Are you a musician?

[steveconn]

@dachille1

Yes, and the first six seconds or so is Paul copying the left hand phrasing, then just playing the right hand notes in an ascending rather than descending pattern. Plus he copies the shuffling drum pattern exactly. The Beatles' bridge is original, but they recorded LM right before heading to India for five months, and he must have really been hard up for fresh ideas to do such a near copycat recording.

[Reason4U2Die]

@steveconn Paul does not copy the chords or the melody, what he copies is the rhythm of the left hand. Only similarities in the right hands are that they play in roughly the same octave. The Bad Penny Blues left hand riff is itself based on a riff by Dan Burley of Chicago who played skiffle music.

[steveconn]

@Reason4U2Die

Paul probably invented Bad Penny Blues and fed it to Lytteton through divine guidance, just so he could borrow from himself later. The Beatles are what Aristotle referred to as the unmoved mover, the origin of everything.

[Reason4U2Die]

@steveconn Nope, Lyttelton was influenced by Burley and McCartney was influenced by Lyttelton. Pretty simple stuff actually. Not sure where your metaphysical divine-cosmic blathering is coming from. Anyway, this is a really nice song. Thanks for posting Jphar.

[TheSteveCock]

@Reason4U2Die

Darn it, I was meant to post as RollingOrmond but couldn't remember the password.

[jasonpfinch]

@dachille1 you're right

[BeatleMathYT]

Don't see the ripped-off-ness, I just see how they're both jazz-blues piano pieces

[MangoChunks]

Produced by Joe Meek!

[jphar]

As was stated 1 year ago in the first comment.

[PancakeRecipes]

@jphar

As was pointed out 1 year after the first comment...

[christiemalry]

Oh, and for all the people saying The Beatles ripped this off.. well, Lady Madonna at least has the courtesy to be the better song. Listen, for instance, how Paul's piano playing mirrors the melody of the lyric.

[christiemalry]

Great song. And yes, it does sound a bit like Lady Madonna - in the same way that Lady Madonna - another one of Paul's clever genre pieces - sounds a bit like a few other rollicking blues tracks from that period.

[jbsouthpaw2009]

Wow I feel cheated now hearing this song after enjoying the Beatles Lady Madonna song all those years. Blatant rip off of the main melody at the beginning. Yes they added the good lyrics but man this is shocking.

[byronthe7th]

This song was the inspiration for Lady Madonna by the Beatles.

[jphar]

It was about 12 years or so before the beetles even started

[MiicanStudios]

You're right - I remember reading that

[rgadave]

Sheer class !.

[roemertopf]

hallo jphar!

excuse me my english,is very bad!

maybe has,the beatles stolen the intro.

the original is very cool!

greetings aus germany

[jphar]

Hi roemertopf, I agree. Though I;m not a fan of the Beatles I can't blame them for copying such a good sound.

John

[roemertopf]

das klingt wie das intro von,,lady madonna,, von den beatles!!

[jphar]

Hi roemertopf, Thanks for the comment, I don't understand German, but the jazz was out at least 10 years before the Beatles started.

John

[tidalwave1978]

An amazing tune. I only heard it for the first time the other day; being more familiar with Humph as host of 'I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue' (I'm only 31, so can be forgiven... I think!)

I've now bought myself a 'Best Of Humphrey Lyttelton' 3-CD boxed set (60 tracks in all), which is now happily blasting out of my stereo.

[jdukulele]

Joe Meek's production is what made this a hit. The early reflection on the trumpet is Humphrey playing against a wall. The distorted bass line on the piano and the boosted level on the snare drum played with brushes. Humphrey when he came back and heard the finished result was furious. He was shocked when it became a VERY big hit for a traditonal jazz record.

Joe's creative genius showed even then.

[eldorado62]

I had read somewhere that when the band turned up to record this number, not all of the musicians turned up. Not only was the left hand on the piano distorted, but the snare on the drums was also heavily amplified. What a great sound though.

[mike8903]

Joe Meek really made this come alive with his insistence on micing the left hand on the piano with a seperate mic and distorting it...which was unheard of at the time!

[bobh094]

Thanks for adding this original 1955/56 version. It brings back some good memories.

[jphar]

My pleasure, those old original recordings always do it for me. I've just loaded an early 'Chimes Blues' as well, more to come.

cheers,

jphar