why does there need to be labels!? gay, straight, trans, cis, male, female, etc, i thought these things suppose to be private matters... who they fuck, how they fuck, what plumbing they got... i mean come on, if they aren't hurting anyone why can't they live their lives however they want without being judged!
Man, this dude is Awesome. He is, by far, the best representative of the idea of healing from same-sex attraction.
Fantastic interview. Rachel at least lets the truth be known that a guy with a successful out-of-gay practice exists. She KNEW by having him on that she would be sending business his way. I commend her for that. Perhaps it's time for her to finally settle down and start a biological family. I know who she'll call for help with it. Good for her!
Richard Cohen is a con man...who makes a living hugging other men. There was a very good reason he was dis-barred from the APA. As well, how humiliating for his wife....on the rare occasions he does fuck her....in his mind she is NOT the one he's fucking. When she straps on and plows his ass...again, it's not her fucking him either!! Somehow I get the feeling she is the "top" in that fake ass marriage. LMAO
i don't blame gay people who want to turn straight. gay people can turn straight if they want just the way with how straight people can turn gay. It's all about minding your own business. Just let people do whatever makes them happy with their lives, as long as they're not hurting others.
Richard Cohen is nuts. He sent one of his followers Caleb Brundidge from his group to Uganda to urge that government to persecute gays, and now Uganda is executing them.
May Richard Cohen and Caleb Brundidge rot in hell forever.
I agree with people who notice how angry gay people become when you suggest change. Why? I have read his book and others. When I was 21, I realized I was not attracted to girls and never had been. But I didn't accept it. I have gone through the "healing" process and now I am at least 50/50 if not more for girls. so, it is possible. sexual desires change. Are you still attracted to your high school crush?
@JustinTymeToday Maybe you were bisexual. But there is no reason to change, because there's nothing wrong with it. It's trying to deny a part of who you are. And it's NOT possible to change. In your case you're just lying to yourself.
Life is beautiful. Why live in artificial ugliness and self-inflicted pain and suffering? Being gay is what it is. Homophobia is a choice.
Why do people still live in fantasies when reality isn't that bad at all. You're either straight or you're gay. Nothing will change your attractions. Live with who and what you are and be happy.
This sad and unhappy charlatan is better off dead. He wakes each morning loathing himself, and goes to sleep the same way. No money is worth such a wasted life.
Poor Rachel is desperate! She's panicking like crazy to try and cover up the fact that so many homosexuals have been successfully rehabilitated from their unwanted homosexual yearnings
@hyakintos If nobody can change why do some people switch to homosexuality from heterosexuality? Did anyone at your school ask you that simple question?
@garysher3 I'm bi sexual, It's not an affliction...It's not a sick yearning. It's just what it is. I have a girl friend (I'm a guy) And I told her I'm bi. She doesn't care, she loves me. Why do you care how other people are? Why can't you just love everyone? You're so ignorant and fearful of absolutely...nothing.
My point remains the same - why do homosexuals like Rachel Madcow get so angry and desperate to try and deny that some people are able to overcome their unwanted homosexual yearnings and be rehabilitated to normality?
This man is so incredibly stupid, cure the gay? i mean seriously, that is the most stupidest thing i have ever heard. I respect rachel for talking with him, i would have kicked him in the balls already.
Yet another closeted homophobe is caught in a lie. Anti-gay CA state senator Roy Ashburn was arrested on DUI charges after leaving a Sacramento gay bar. He is a fierce opponent of gay rights, and is married to a woman, and has four children!
@melissarvv sorry you are so intolerant and afraid to accept the truth. Obviously you know more about all those rehabilitated homosexuals than they know about themselves so we should take your word over theirs
Trying to justify homosexual behaviour by saying that "baboons do it" is the most riotously funny excuse of them all!
And saying that homosexuality is natural because it occur in nature is also nonsense. Unless you believe that cleft palates and leprosy are also natural.
@garysher3, trying to justify heterosexual behaviour just because you breed is also a ridiculous notion. How many Catholics still follow the church's teachings on birth control and sex outside of marriage? LOL! Homosexuality is RAMPANT in animals, and the truth of this is finally coming out, despite every effort to supress it... People who say homosexuality isn't a part of the natural scheme of things are not telling the truth....
Lisztnut, all I know is if you remove an animals reproductive organs it stops having sex. This is not true in humans. That is why I say the research is skewed. As long as the tools are there humans still have sex. I do not know these people you quote, or want to, but in the zoos across the nation it is a big deal when a rare animal has a tumor there or cancer, or accident in the reproductive at very young age. This is why sex with animals are instinctive instead of pleasure.
I don't think you are correct about humans automatically having sex if they have their sex organs removed. Where did you hear that? That's a new one on me. And, you are simple WRONG about animals having sex for pleasure. How many sources do I need to quote before you'll believe me. Apparently, prior research had not resulted in this conclusion, because researchers were embarrassed or pressured to reveal the truth. Didn't you read that book review I sent you, which clearly stated this?
I never once mentioned sex organs. REPRODUCTIVE organs are not the same as sex organs. Yes, a baby would die if left in the woods alone. They can not change their diapers, can not walk, talk, and can not crawl All learned behavior. Most animals walk a day out of the womb. HUMANS have no instincts. A child 5 and under would probably die in the woods. How would they know what to eat, another learned behavior. Do you know what instincts are? They are not learned behaviors.
By the way, the same is true of the research into human sexual orientation. In fact, there are many, many studies which lead to the conclusion that sexual orientation is caused by biology, genes or a combination. Unfortunately, the rightwing religious nuts don't want you to know about this. I think if the bible said the earth was flat (as they believed back then), those same people would insist that the earth is flat, despite the knowledge we have which disputes that.
This research has nothing to do with the bible or biblical teachings. This is about research you have sent me. I am telling you what I know. I KNOW humans have no instincts, everything is taught to a child, instincts are not learned behaviors. That is why they are instincts. Animals will not have sex again once they have no reproductive organs. Humans will have sex without reproductive organs. Many woman have no ovaries, but still have sex, men have no testes still have sex. Animals dont.
I'm not sure where you're getting your info, but I'm VERY skeptical about a lot of it. Frankly, it makes NO rational sense. I do NOT believe that an infant left in the woods would not eat something, eventually. And, I've never heard the part about animals not having sex if they don't have reproductive organs. This flies in the face of the FACT that animals have same sex relationships. You are trying to say that without procreation animals don't have sex. It's NONSENSE. They DO...
And, I've also pointed out to you, and provided proof, that animals have sex for pleasure, and not just dolphins. Research into this field has been historically very limited, until fairly recently. That's because of the "agenda" of the Christian right to suppress such knowledge...
@dancesonpoles That is ludicrous. I grew up on a farm, and once the reproductive organs were gone, not one animal had anything to do with either sex for sex. The animals were far more loving, happy and just had a better disposition than they ever had. I personally know I am nothing like an animal. I am far more intelligent and advanced than an animal. I live in house with electricity, running water a three car garage that has cars that take me places. Where are the other animals with that?
Quite frankly, I think your assertion that humans have NO instincts is complete nonsense. Do you mean to tell me an abandoned baby in the woods wouldn't know to eat something? That's insane. We ALL have instincts. Babies have fear, and this IS an instinct. I've mentioned crying many times, and you seem to ignore that. Isn't crying a human instinct that expresses fear and anger? I've been told that if you make a scary or mean face in front of a baby it WILL cry. Isn't this an instinct?
Crying is the only thing babies do, more of response to stimuli. They do not cry to faces, heck a baby will not even laugh until it is three months old, can not even sit up till three months or older. I have substitute taught in schools, I have two boys. I had a baby sister when 12, I know about babies. All the behaviors are responses to stimuli. Not the same as an instinct, like walking out of the womb.
So when he "healed his wounds" and "experienced healthy relationships with guys" it magically made his penis respond to pussy instead of dick? Amazing!
Gary, nobody "becomes" homosexual. They either are or AREN'T homosexual. All the men I know who came out later in life as homosexuals knew all along they were gay, but it was idiots like YOU that prevented them from being who they are inside. You have NO idea the pressures people endure to "conform" to heterosexuality. We live in a heterosexual world. Mustang is an example of this. He was "shamed" into behaving as a heterosexual, even though I believe he is still homosexual in his soul.
Gary, your own behaviour confirms why it is that so many people don't have the COURAGE to be gay. It takes more balls than you could ever muster. I guarantee it... Gays are verbally abused and sometimes physically harrassed EVERY day. Your playground behaviour is just one example of it. And, you still can't accept that my marriage is EQUAL to yours, can you? How many times have you beaten your wife thinking about MY marriage? Your wife must be a bloody pulp by now...
listznut-it's tragic that your butt buddy is so indoctrinated with the homosexual lifestyle and so hates Christians that he refuses to help homosexuals overcome their unwanted deviancy and tries to turn them against the love of Jesus Christ.
He really needs to re-think the evil he is doing or tear up his licence
Yeah, I know Gary is a real piece of work. He has lots of mental problems. It is illustrated in his comments. I sure hope his poor wife isn't beaten to death one day. I pity his 2.5 below average children, too... Sad, isn't it? A grown man acting like he's on the playground....
Gary, you seem to have overlooked that Mustang's problem was sex ADDICTION, NOT homosexuality. He admited this himself, and said he hadn't been honest with his therapists. It was society's abusive treatment of gays that made him decide to try to be straight. Sad... We should sympathize with him rather than point a finger of blame towards him. I know several straight people who are sex adicts too...
I am filled with love, Gary. I don't beat my spouse. I don't spend my days trolling around on youtube to bash another group of people who would simply like to have the civil rights YOU take for granted. I wouldn't call that anger. But, I have a REASON to be angry. I will continue to fight for the rights of my fellow gay brethren to have the "FREEDOM" to marry. Is this acting out of hatred and anger? NO, that would be YOU. My marriage has no impact on your life, yet you act as if it does.
Gary, why have you misinterpreted Jesus' teachings, and twisted the bible so as to bash gays? You need to realize that not every Christian feels as you do. But, apparently, it is more important to IMPOSE your views on homosexuality on everyone. This is NOT a Democratic principle, is it? That's called Facism.... Gays want the freedom to marry, something I think Jesus would have approved of. Especially considering the FACT that he never mentioned homosexuality...
Mustang, I have heard that phrase all my life, but find it rather odd that a dead person would love me! No offense, but I don't believe Jesus is alive now....! I wish only the best for you, and your family, and I would hope you'd feel the same about me and my family... Unfortunately, there are far too many bullies around, such as Gary, who don't want my family to exist. He's intimidated by the fact that I'm legally married. He lays awake at night just thinking of my marriage. So sad...
Mustangman, one more thing. I know half a dozen men personally who were once in heterosexual relationships (most of them married with children), and they have come out of the closet as gay men later in life. One of them is 55, and has two grown daughters. What do you think of these people, in light of what has happened in your life? I view it as a "reverse" setting "free" from a "pretend" life that these men were living. In EVERY case, the men are finally happy being who they are....
For the Jesus loves you, and for the case of the men "coming out" at age 55. I stated Jesus loves you, because of faith, coming out and love. I spent years in counseling, both secular and christian. Looking back, seemed like a waste of money, and time, when all I had to do was ask for Jesus to guide, and take my life daily. Amazing how something simple could be so free and easy, yet I had wasted years of money, and time that I can never get back. That is what I mean by being truly free.
Mustang, I'm saying that for some people, they are experiencing the "freedom" to be who they are for the first time later on in life. Isn't their journey from being involved in a way of life that is alien to THEM, just as compelling as your story of the opposite journey? I would imagine there are far more people who have been in "faux" hetero relationships, and eventually felt that they could finally be "free" to be themselves as gay people. Don't forget that there is pressure to conform.
I do not agree with the professionals. I searched porfessionals in South Carolina, Boston, Flordia, and Southern Cali for help, to the point no one believed I could change. I am here to tell you that it is possible. I had to come home to chase all the demons. Imagine being everywhere, only to come back nearer to the place I grew up to find myself. All it took, for me, was to ask Jesus Daily. That is all it took. I did not look for a denomination, just asking Jesus.
Let me ask you something very personal. If during your years of your sexual addiction you had met one man who you really loved, would you have felt different about this whole situation if you had had the "freedom" to marry that person, and make a committment to only one person? Just curious... It seems to me here we are talking about different issues. Your issue was sex addiction, and not your orientation per se.... I'm not trying to persuade you to be gay, just asking...
If you know anything about addictions, you know that would never have been possible to be monogamous. You can not allow a fox to guard the hen house. You can not allow an alcoholic to be an open bartender. I can not go back. I am not repressing the feelings. I am moving forward. Once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic.
Yes, I agree it is great that you've kicked your sex addiction, and I also agree that there is no turning back. You are to be applauded for being able to get rid of this demon in your life. But, I'll repeat what I said earlier. Your sexual orientation is unrelated to your sex addiction. These are two VERY different issues. There are many heterosexuals who are sex addicts, in fact there is a TV reality show about it with Dr. Drew Pearson (sp?) that I saw once.
Yes, Heter people are not ammuned to anything that homo people have. In my case, once I went through what I went through, I had put sex on hold, believe me, it can be done. After the process, I had no desire to be with anyone but this special lady. The sexual desires had left, but it took 5 years after I asked Jesus on a daily basis, and about 10 failed tries. No different than any other addiction. Just like a smoker, they are over it after 5 years sober.
Mustang, one thing is very curious about your story. Most men, myself included, seem to have lots of sexual fantasies going through our heads. During the time you were having sex only with men, did you at ANY time fantasize about women? And, conversely, have you ever caught yourself now fantasizing about men, or even about past sexual encounters with men? Not trying to pry, just trying to understand you. I find it VERY odd if you don't have sexual fantasies. VERY odd...
I did have, but the fantasies and dreams have seemed to move in a different direction, and that is one thing that Cohen addresses EXCELLENT is his earlier books. Unfortunately, you would have to read it. That is where sex experts NEED to get advice from, since I have been through their therapy and it sucks. Even an ivy leaguer. However, Cohen is not the best. I have read Drew's books, some, I have read countless books on the issue, when I wasn't groping men for sex.
You know the interesting thing is that anyone could theoretically change their behavior, just as left handed people can learn to write with their right hand. However, I firmly believe that our innate orientation can NEVER change. I mean, just look at Cohen above and tell me that anyone who meets him isn't going to assume he's gay. Who is he trying to fool here? I suppose a straight person could have a sexual relationship with a same sex partner, too, right?
If you can change behavior, you can change anything. I am in love. I love her for being with me. I love her for being alive. I look forward to growing old with her. I do not have to fantisize! It is there, and wants me, I do need to fantisize. You may think I am gay too, but that makes no difference. What counts is where the heart is. Fantasies can be changed too, The whole process is not easy, and it takes time.
You feel about your wife exactly as I do about my husband. These are all human feelings that nobody should discount. The aspect I seriously question is the "reason" you felt compelled to changed. My sexuality as a beautiful part of who I am, and I see no reason to change it. To me it is as much a part of me and my being as is my gender and race. There is no reason to change it. I do NOT buy into the religious notion that there is something bad about being gay. It's NATURAL!
Did you know that there are 450 documented species of animals that mate with same sex partners for life? Some researchers believe it is NECESSARY for the survival of the species, as it cuts down on overpopulation. Isn't it plausible, therefore, that homosexuality is natural and nothing to shun? This is my point. You've bought into the false notion that homosexuality is something wrong or against "god." I don't buy it for a minute. And, it's tragic that you've "changed" your orientation.
Hmm, I read millions of books growing up about animals. The only animal that ever has sex for pleasure is a human, and a porpoise, and 100% of them are hetero Even the highly intellectual elephant only has sex to spead the species. A male dog will hump anything. I never set out to "cure" me of Homosexuality, but it worked out. I just left my mind open and just went with it. Everything just fell into place when I started asking Jesus to guide me daily and let me live the way he wanted.
Mustang, as I said before, I'm HAPPY that everything has worked out for you to be happy. That's ALL that's important, isn't it? I'm happy too, and I'm proud that didn't listen to the religious uptraining I had regarding my orientation. I happen to know that the people who use the bible to condemn homosexuality are WRONG. But, each of us must live our OWN lives, correct?
Actually, you're wrong about animals, many of them have sex for pleasure. In fact that video says that animals have sex MORE often than humans, and that most of it is for pleasure. Once again, here it is:
Homosexuality in the Animal Kingdom (National Geographic)
To show you how political things can be, there has been a concerted effort by conservative religious folks to suppress the research into homosexuality in the animal kingdom. Researchers have been denied grants, etc...
I just realized that you said you read millions of books growing up. This indicates to me that you haven't read the latest research on homosexuality in animals. I recommend you start reading again, as you'll be fascinated how horny those animals are! Did you know that same sex partners mate for life in animals? It's fairly common, actually... There is a species of rams that force all their members to have homo anal intercourse to climax, and they will reject any ram that doesn't participate.
I do not like getting this information from youtube. I will have to read up on it. Most animals use sex as way of keeping the species alive, it is not about pleasure. The cats, after seeing what they look like, I can not even image a homosexual cat. Painful to even think about. I am skeptical, because the research business is skewed. All animals with pet each other, and show affection too! Males or females. Usually the petting in the cat world is about dominance.
@39Mustangman, You are absolutely correct that research into homosexuality in animals has been skewed, and it's been skewed towards DENYING that this phenomenon exists so prevalently in nature. As a matter of fact, there is MORE homosexual sex in animals than in humans. And it involves intercourse, not just petting, as well as life long mating of same sex partners. And, you are also wrong about the pleasure part. Animals LOVE sex just for how it feels. Procreation is a side effect.
Research in general is skewed, because it depends on the researcher doing the research. With that said, there are millions of studies on Animals, and only one like the one you are talking about. Again, it has been stated the ONLY animal to have sex for pleasure is a porpoise, or dolphin. I know farm animals are not bright enough to think in that way. A male dog will hump anything. Therefore, with my experience and knowledge, I seriously doubt this researchers research.
@39Mustangman, no, you are very wrong about this. There have been MANY researchers who've found homosexuality rampant in the animal kingdom, not just one. As I said, this was covered up for years, and researchers were refused grants because of the conservative "agenda" to hide this.
I do not think for a second that the right wing has any more wild ideas than the left side. I am very middle of the road here. If you go on a Toyota website to find information about a car, then your information is skewed. You have not looked into Honda, Ford, BMW. If you go on a gay and lesbian website to find information about homosexuality, then your information is skewed. The same with the animals. I am not here to argue that, it explains little, and seems lopsided. Just tell the truth
@39Mustangman, oh yes, you are VERY right about everything you just said. I agree completely. That's why I'm telling you that research into homosexuality in animals has been historically repressed if not downright discouraged. UNTIL NOW! Finally, the truth has come out, and it cannot be denied. Homosexuality is actually MORE common in animals than in humans. Know why? Because animals don't worry about what a reliigous group or their "society" thinks about it. They act out of instincts.
That is right, animals act on instinct, not on sexual desires. Homosexual orientation is a desire, not an instinct. Humans have no instincts. Animals rely on instinct to get by. Therefore, I doubt this study and any that thinks animals have the intelligence to comprehend homosexuality. They are instinctual animals! There is only one animal that has sex for pleasure. I am sure of that.
Mustang, I totally disagree about humans not having instincts. Where did you get that idea from? You have children, and must have certainly seen how your kids acted as infants. They act just like animals when they are young. They cry when they don't get what they want. Isn't that an instinct? It's certainly not a "learned" behavior or something done by the intellect. The National Geographic video on animal homosexuality explicitely talks about sex for pleasure. They don't agree with you.
Humans do not have instincts. That is a fact, they have to learn how to eat. My children never acted like an animal, AT ALL. This National Geographic Video, is trying to relate this to humans. I can tell you, I am not an animal. I think, I believe, and I know. When an animal can do that, then I will believe what he says, but He is justifying a hypothesis, with is his own belief system. HE is TOTALLY wrong. Animals live by instinct, and HUMANS DON T. His theory is skewed.
Mustang, humans don't have instincts? What kind of NONSENSE is that? Why did your kids cry as children? Were they taught this? No, it is an instinct. When I child wants something they cry.
Mustang, you are WRONG, once again. Animals DO have sex for pleasure. There is a species of monkey were the females lick each others vaginas. This is OBVIOUSLY for pleasure, as it does not lead to procreation. Watch the video, and then we can discuss this further:
Homosexuality in the Animal Kingdom (National Geographic) Why do you insist on trying to convince me of something based on your personal "opinion" without listening to the experts in this field?
Did you teach your children how to cry? Where did they learn it from, if not? I think crying is a natural instinct, that is akin to animal behavior...
Editorial review excerpt: Most scientists have thus far studiously avoided the topic of widespread homosexual behavior in the animal kingdom--sometimes in the face of undeniable evidence. Astounding as it sounds, a number of scientists have actually argued that when a female Bonobo wraps her legs around another female ... while emitting screams of enjoyment, this is actually "greeting" behavior, or "appeasement" behavior ... almost anything, it seems, besides pleasurable sexual behavior.
Mustang, I sent your inbox further editorical review comments about those books I've listed below. I think you'll be fascinated about how scientists have tried to deny and cover up, or make excuses for homosexuality in animals...
Animals (both heterosexual and homosexual) also rape and divorce, commit "child" abuse and infidelity and can be lifelong celibates. Human claims to uniqueness in this arena are shown to be increasingly difficult to maintain. The overall effect is to detonate the myth that animals are solely driven by heterosexual reproductive urges
Wouldn't the research be better if the researcher was not looking for this and found it? This researcher was looking for this and found what he wanted to find. The timing of this article is also kind of poor. If he had done this in the 1970's there may have been more validity, but that did not happen then. Also, why would a heterosexual not want to condone their life by finding hetero in the animal kingdom, which was not really found either. It was to keep the species alive!
@39Mustangman, and homosexuality keeps the species alive, too! I've been to China, and have heard about the policy of "forced abortions" when a family has more than one child. Homosexuality would be an improvement over that, don't you think? Homosexuals will save the planet? The earth is overpopulated, there's no two ways about it. There are simply TOO many humans, and it is strangling the planet.
Abortion is not an answer. Governments that make laws do not make anything right, just legal. This paragraph is loaded. I just know what is right for me, because I have it all. I just think everyone should have a choice, and know going in that if you look back and expect it to happen overnight, you are not going into it with the wrong attitude. Make a decision, and do not look back.
@39Mustangman, I agree that abortion isn't the answer, but the Chinese simply didn't know how to reduce their population, and resorted to the unthinkable: forced abortions if a couple has more than one child. I also agree with you that we should live our lives to the fullest, and never look back. That's why I'm thrilled I came out of the closet at 20 and have never regretted a moment of my life. I wouldn't change a thing, but wish I could have married earlier. It would have made a difference
The point is that it's what's "inside" that counts. When I was having sex with women I always thought of men as a way of "getting through" the experience. It was painful, for sure, and these girls never knew what was going on in my head. That's why I was probing what goes on in YOUR mind when you are having sex with your wife, or even when you were with men. If you found yourself fantasizing about women when you were with men, there was something definitely WRONG!
I believe that the people who concocted the bible preached against homosexuality (although is apparently still debatable), because they wanted people to "mulitply." This is the reason ANY form of sex was traditionally a sin in the Catholic church (including oral sex between married straight couples, and masterbation), beccause it didn't lead to procreation. Birth control is still viewed as a sin, as far as I know... Therefore, homosexuality was included in this list of "sins."
Actually, I take one thing back. Sexual orientation could have something to do with sex addiction in the sense that homosexual men notoriously have better sex, more often. This is something straight men love to point out, because they say gays are "promiscious." I think they say this out of jealousy, frankly. Anyway, just thought I'd throw that out there. I think it is easier to be a sex addict if you are gay, because we have far more opportunities for sex than straight men.
Gary, Mustang also agrees with me that you cannot "pray away the gay." There is NO such thing. Ted Haggard agrees... Once you are gay, you are ALWAYS gay... Just like you: Once you are a bully, you are ALWAYS a bully... Still on the playground Gary.... SAD,,,,
Mustang, once again, I don't want you to misunderstand where I'm coming from. I celebrate your journey of "freedom" from sex addiction. This is a personally reaffirming action that you did out of self love. I personally do NOT believe that you are no longer gay. I believe you have "repressed" those feelings in order to conform to your religious beliefs, and the pressures you feel from society at large (especially living in the midwest). That being said, there IS a better way! Just saying.
Repression or no repression. I can only stay true to what I have, compared with a lousey past! I truly am free of those demonds. Gay or straight, its a part of my past, not who I am. There may be a better life, but I have wasted too much time looking for something that was unfulfilling. I will always look to better myself, but it needs to be with a clear mind, and not to fulfill a sexual desire that brought me to a near death sentence.
Well said! I think the point I brought up about my friends who were once in straight relationships (which didn't make them happy) and are now gay only illustrates the opposite side of this argument. They weren't happy living a "lie" and it was only after they "accepted" their homosexual orientation that they were truly "happy." One of them is giddy with excitement because he is in his first relationship with a man (he has two grown daughters). He would like to marry his partner some day.
Our sexual orientation is formed VERY early in life, some experts say by the age of two it is set. It is ours to "discover" in our puberty. I suppose in your case it is POSSIBLE, although unlikely, that you are heterosexual in orientation, but something traumatic happened and you acted on same sex attractions that were not your innate orientation. I highly doubt it, though. I agree with the mental health pros that say you CANNOT change your orientation.
I am not sure orientation is the correct term. I was so young when I was messed with that I did not have an option to change that. The outcome may have been different if I did not have information that should never been provided to me. Once a child is given sexual information, that child has been set up to fail in life. You know children grow quickly, and they can never make any choices, just deal with the blows they are given. I hear they are resilient, but what choice do they have?
Your experiences are so very different from mine. I knew that I was gay many decades before I was able to 'act' on my orientation. I was basically trapped in a heterosexual environment, and felt it was the ONLY way. But, all along, even though I had girlfriends, I knew it wasn't right for me, and I dreamed of being with a man. Nobody forced me into being gay, nobody molested me. It seems to me you were traumatized by someone who forced you into sex acts. This definitely required therapy.
Mustangman, my earliest memories involve having "crushes" on guys who were older than myself. I remember this distinctly, and it was before I went to school, too! You don't have to believe me on this, but I've read many experts in child development and they agree that sexual orientation is like handedness, formed VERY early, if not BEFORE birth. That's another topic for discussion...
Gary, I heard on the radio tonight the startling statistic that one in every four women is either raped or beaten up during her lifetime! Who do think is responsible for this, Gary? Do you think gay men are raping and beating on women? I wonder who that is, Gary...? Maybe you can fill me in? Apparently, you aren't alone when it comes to abusing women... Straight men are the perpetrators just about 100 perent of the time. Why is that, Gary? What's all that rage about?
listznut-hopefully you will take a page out of 39Mustangman's book and realise that you too can overcome your tragic homosexual affliction if you really want to
Gary, I have NO affliction, rather YOU have an affliction. You are obsessed with my marriage, and cannot accept that my marriage is EQUAL to your sham of a marriage in the eyes of our state...
Gary, I'm here to tell Mustang that he didn't have to deny his sexual orientation in order to be happy. In fact, I'm living proof of a happily married gay man! IF being gay were a choice, I'd DEFINITELY choose it again. NO question about that...
I love the way Rachel makes Cohen look like a total FOOL. And, all she does is let him speak for himself. His assertions are so ridiculous as to be laughable without any comments from Rachel... I would like someone to speak out about the ex-heterosexuals in the world, and watch the reaction they get...
Nobody needs to choose to be heterosexual because it is the normal natural purpose of human sexuality. Likewise nobody needs to choose to chew with their teeth instead of their hands.
Being sober and not inhaling tobacco smoke are also normal natural behaviours.
Homosexuality, alcoholism and smoking are all deviant destructive behaviours.
It's really not that difficult especially for someone who claims to have an academic background
Yes, you chose to be heterosexual Gary. According to you, sexual orientation is something we choose, therefore I'm waiting for your answer to my question: WHEN did you choose to be heterosexual? And, also, when did you choose to be male?
Jesus, gives you freedom, not restraints. You have stated yourself, there is no cure for homosexuality. Therefore, you have just restained yourself. I am not a bible toting preacher. I am here to tell you I am happy being an ex gay. God gave me the challenge of same sex attraction, how I deal with it is my choice. With God there are no boundaries, only the ones we place on ourselves. I am not judging anyone, I have no right too. Just stating the facts.
I make no judgements about you pretending to be heterosexual, either. I am here to tell you there is a BETTER way. You don't have to deny your innate orientation in order to be accepted by society. This group is proof that the "pray away the gay" phenomenon is a myth. These are testimonials of people of faith, like you, who tried and failed at "faking" being heterosexual:
I am glad you are happy. The studies are by unbiased researchers, but being in the field myself I was restrained and told to not publish anything that did not shed a positive light on the situation. So the whole study, all the years and money were wasted. Second, I went out of my way to make sure that homosexuality was right and just. However, the study, that I am not allow to elaborate on, because of a job, did not do that. I am sure that countless more are just the same.
Enough about that. I really could care less about some study. What I did one day after years of empty sex and many many men. What I did was this. I finally fell down, and asked Jesus to just take my life an run it. The first year I did that, I still was hunting men for sex. The second year I did that (Mind you, this was on a daily basis, I never wavered once). I did not go und having random sex. However, the same sex attraction was there..
Mustangman, I was raised in a strongly religious home. My father's an Evangelical minister (in OHIO!), and I know all too well where you are coming from regarding Jesus. My journey from believer to non-believer is another story, but suffice it to say I do NOT believe that we need to "change" something as important to us as our sexuality in order to follow the teachings of any religion. It is WRONG, as a matter of fact. It would be like asking someone to change their gender or race.
First of all, thanks for the kindness, although I can not necessarily agree anymore. There was a time I could and would have agreed, but I can not now. I am not living a lie, I am telling you, and the world from the bottom of my heart. That I have no same sex attraction. As for the bible thing, it was not even part of the equation at the time of the addiction, because I would have done anything it took, to get over that. To tell you the truth, I even have a deep compassion for everyone!
Are you aware that the Catholic church agrees with me on this? They say sexual orientation is INNATE, and CANNOT be changed. They recommend that gay people remain celibate, and not try to change to heterosexual. I agree completely. I believe that you actually can "fool" society and yourself into thinking that your orientation has changed, but it actually CAN'T change, unless you are bisexual, which is a very small percentage of the population...
I do not know what to say to that, but I can tell you! I am here, and I can not think of sex with men again because of the brother father, son thing. I was groomed to have same sex attraction from the time I was old enough to remember, because a guy who was about 3 years older than me, and kept messing with me. I wanted it, but I did not know to process the information. It really is not something a child should have brought on to him, just like forcing anyone into therapy. NOT a good idea.
I had very different experiences from you growing up. I was never forced into any same sex relations of any kind. In fact, I didn't know there were other gay people until I got to college. I thought I was the ONLY one. Therefore, I've never bought into this myth that gays are the way we are because someone molested us, or because of our environment. I was raised in a 150 percent hetero world, and told that being gay was bad and against Jesus...
The third year the same sex attraction was still there, but a transformation of believing men were my brothers, sons, and fathers. With that my head, it was kind of hard to get any type of stimuli. The fact that I started believing that, kind of made me nasuated to think of men in that way. Now, you can call me a liar, and downplay my abilty to do what I did. Dr. Spitzer did not say it was impossible to change, just very difficult. Homosexuality, for me, was totally like a herione addiction
It was taking up all my time looking for sex. It was cutting into my personal time. It was to the point my job was on the line, and I had not one lasting relationship. I would have done anything to hook up. I know I was a sex addict. I did not set out to be an ex gay, but that is how it happened.
I do not want anything more than I have, and I can not go back to living, and searching for sex with a male again. I am sorry man. You do not have to convert, but for me it was miserable. Now, that I think of guys as a father brother, or son, I feel way more connected to them, and I am not being friends with them based on their looks.
Watch this youtube video for proof of how the religious right has misinterpreted the bible and used it to oppress gays throughout the 20th Century:
The Bible Told Me So (in ten parts)
The film interviews top biblical scholars about the bible and homosexuality. You will be AMAZED how the bible has been twisted in order to denegrate gay people. It will make you cry... I hope some day you will be "free" of this oppression and once again learn to love yourself for who you are...
Forcing anyone into something he does not want to do is like placing a square peg in round hole. First of all, if you think ex gay works every single time the first time. Your wrong, because just like being a good athlete, you need to keep it up, or even if you try to diet, you need to keep it up. This issue should never be taken lightly. However, you need to look at all facts. Check out Dr. Spitzers study. He was critizied for it, even though he got homosexuality off the APA!
And, there is far too much emphasis on this supposed "conspiracy" theory of getting homosexuality removed as a disease by the APA. What is far more fascinating is to study how it got placed on the list in the 1950s. Before 1950, homosexuality was considered a NORMAL varient of human sexuality. It was the Kinsey report in the 50s that prompted the APA to place homosexuality on the mental illness list. Know why? Political pressures from the conservative religious right. FACT!
If you have read my story, anything more you say can not possibly move me to go back to homosexual life. However, it was and will always be a part of who I was, not who I am.
Mustangman, I don't mean to pry too much, but are you African-American? The reason I asked is I have a friend who is gay, and African-American, and he's struggling with his sexual orientation right now. He sounds EXACTLY like you in the way he approaches this. He feels it is his orientation that is responsible for his sex addiction, too.... You don't have to answer this, but just curious... I think there is a cultural aspect here that is very revealing.
And, the reason the APA dropped homosexuality as an illness was because blind studies were done of homosexual and heterosexual patients in the 1970s, and it was found that there was NO difference in mental health between the two groups. You are walking PROOF of the pressures gay people endure at the hands of the religious right, and bigots like Garysher3, who are unfortunately the majority of Americans. Without this pressure, you could be free to be who you are inside.
After the addiction, i can not look back. I am far more happier where I am. I have only one attraction to one person. I can never ever let sex be the ruling nature of my life, because when it does that will be like the drunk who takes his last drink. I do not have one good memory of my prior life. I was critizied by my same sex attraction, and now I am critizied by my ex gay. There is no winning, but the love in me is far great, and I have no anger anymore!
Thanks for your personal story. I appreciate that you shared that with me. However, I feel you are blaming sex addiction on your sexual orientation. This is a mistake. The two are not related. I am legally married gay man, and do not suffer from any addictions. My sexual orientation is not based on addiction. As long as you are happy, that's fine, but I frankly don't believe that you aren't still attracted to men. I can read between the lines. You are simply deceiving yourself.
I am not attracted to men, because of the father son, and brother thing. If you think of your father, do you have any stimuli there? If you do, then we are not on the same page, but if you do not, then you understand what I mean. Kind of gross now. You want me to truthful, I amdoing it for you. To answer your African American Question, I am blond hair blue eyed, and second generation Scandinavian, on my mothers side. Dad is French and German. Thanks for your kindness, but I good now.
Well, in this way we are similar. I'm blond and blue eyed too, and people like me as well. In fact, girls still try to "hook" up with me. When I was in South America last year FOUR girls tried to seduce me... It was flattering, but to use your term, also "GROSS!"
I was referring to the African American aspect, because gays are particularly badly treated in the black community. That's why so many gay men end up married to women, and having sex on the "down low" behind their wive's back. It's so common that Oprah did a show about it...
why does there need to be labels!? gay, straight, trans, cis, male, female, etc, i thought these things suppose to be private matters... who they fuck, how they fuck, what plumbing they got... i mean come on, if they aren't hurting anyone why can't they live their lives however they want without being judged!
gablison 1 month ago
lol she ENDED him!!
ClappingForChlamydia 2 months ago
Man, this dude is Awesome. He is, by far, the best representative of the idea of healing from same-sex attraction.
Fantastic interview. Rachel at least lets the truth be known that a guy with a successful out-of-gay practice exists. She KNEW by having him on that she would be sending business his way. I commend her for that. Perhaps it's time for her to finally settle down and start a biological family. I know who she'll call for help with it. Good for her!
fdzwes 7 months ago
Dude's more nervous than a long-tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs.
chthonic19 10 months ago 2
Richard Cohen is a con man...who makes a living hugging other men. There was a very good reason he was dis-barred from the APA. As well, how humiliating for his wife....on the rare occasions he does fuck her....in his mind she is NOT the one he's fucking. When she straps on and plows his ass...again, it's not her fucking him either!! Somehow I get the feeling she is the "top" in that fake ass marriage. LMAO
keiferd11 1 year ago
he is hipocrite.
hyakintos 1 year ago
it's compromitation for him.
hyakintos 1 year ago
this guy got so completely owned it's not even funny. Rachel ftw
CAYOMluver 1 year ago
"I'm a victim of a hate crime."
I feel the same, having to listen to so much crap from such an uneducated guy.
shiringuroren 1 year ago
did he really say "henis"?
dude...you're gay.....frodian slip!
accept it and let's move along.
does the comment 'he doeth protest too much' ring a bell?
pmsrunamuck 1 year ago
i don't blame gay people who want to turn straight. gay people can turn straight if they want just the way with how straight people can turn gay. It's all about minding your own business. Just let people do whatever makes them happy with their lives, as long as they're not hurting others.
tibskidee 1 year ago 2
@tibskidee what?! it's impossible to change orientation. you, in USA, live like in XIX century.
hyakintos 1 year ago
Damn, I'm never gonna pissing off a lesbian.
ggn1 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Richard Cohen is nuts. He sent one of his followers Caleb Brundidge from his group to Uganda to urge that government to persecute gays, and now Uganda is executing them.
May Richard Cohen and Caleb Brundidge rot in hell forever.
jwwindsor 1 year ago
I agree with people who notice how angry gay people become when you suggest change. Why? I have read his book and others. When I was 21, I realized I was not attracted to girls and never had been. But I didn't accept it. I have gone through the "healing" process and now I am at least 50/50 if not more for girls. so, it is possible. sexual desires change. Are you still attracted to your high school crush?
JustinTymeToday 1 year ago
@JustinTymeToday Maybe you were bisexual. But there is no reason to change, because there's nothing wrong with it. It's trying to deny a part of who you are. And it's NOT possible to change. In your case you're just lying to yourself.
CAYOMluver 1 year ago
@JustinTymeToday really? buahhhhhaaaaaa. you would like be bi, but you were gay, you are gay and you will be. don't be stupid.
hyakintos 1 year ago
Life is beautiful. Why live in artificial ugliness and self-inflicted pain and suffering? Being gay is what it is. Homophobia is a choice.
Why do people still live in fantasies when reality isn't that bad at all. You're either straight or you're gay. Nothing will change your attractions. Live with who and what you are and be happy.
This sad and unhappy charlatan is better off dead. He wakes each morning loathing himself, and goes to sleep the same way. No money is worth such a wasted life.
Chelsea4President 1 year ago
I, love, her.
ImJohnDavid 1 year ago 2
Rachel Maddow is totally awkward.. in this video. She is totally out of control. Why is she so angry about someone getting out of abnormal sexuality?
jinu03 1 year ago
@jinu03 Because it's not abnormal.
tuldorman5 1 year ago
That dude is sooooo gay
Buck2120 1 year ago
"I'm the victim of a hate crime!!" LOLOLOLOL OH HELLO PARADOX
paintycanjay 1 year ago 2
Poor Rachel is desperate! She's panicking like crazy to try and cover up the fact that so many homosexuals have been successfully rehabilitated from their unwanted homosexual yearnings
garysher3 1 year ago
@garysher3 you are stupid. nobody can change sexual orientation. go to school and learn about it!
hyakintos 1 year ago
@hyakintos If nobody can change why do some people switch to homosexuality from heterosexuality? Did anyone at your school ask you that simple question?
garysher3 1 year ago
Kevstar-why are you so fearful of homosexuals who successfully rehabilitate and become normal heterosexuals?
garysher3 1 year ago
Why are the homosexuals so terrified of admitting that their affliction is not genetic and is frequently cured?
Why can't they admit that some homosexuals don't want to have such unnatural and sick yearnings and are desperate to find a way to rehabilitate?
garysher3 1 year ago
@garysher3 I'm bi sexual, It's not an affliction...It's not a sick yearning. It's just what it is. I have a girl friend (I'm a guy) And I told her I'm bi. She doesn't care, she loves me. Why do you care how other people are? Why can't you just love everyone? You're so ignorant and fearful of absolutely...nothing.
Kevstar19 1 year ago 5
@Kevstar19 sorry son you're just confused.
My point remains the same - why do homosexuals like Rachel Madcow get so angry and desperate to try and deny that some people are able to overcome their unwanted homosexual yearnings and be rehabilitated to normality?
garysher3 1 year ago
@garysher3 lmfao... I hope you grow up one day.
Kevstar19 1 year ago
@Kevstar19 I already grew up.
Hopefully when you grow up you will see things more clearly and not be so confused.
garysher3 1 year ago
@garysher3 Ok bud...hope you recover from your religious coma.
Kevstar19 1 year ago
@garysher3 "sorry son you're just confused." Well, that's a dismissal if I ever read one.
RememberJudas314 1 year ago
@Kevstar19 Why would I be "fearful" of your sad affliction? And who cares if your gf doesn't care? Apparently she is as desperate and naive as you.
Bisexual is another term for a confused horn dog.
garysher3 1 year ago
@garysher3 10 Months..10 whole fucking months you took to say that to me? Get the fuck out...seriously...what the fuck is wrong with you?
Kevstar19 1 year ago
@garysher3 Your lack of education is astounding.
Kevstar19 1 year ago
This man is so incredibly stupid, cure the gay? i mean seriously, that is the most stupidest thing i have ever heard. I respect rachel for talking with him, i would have kicked him in the balls already.
melissarvv 2 years ago 2
I think you need to read my posts where you posted.
39Mustangman 2 years ago
Hey i saw you posted on another video that you were interviewed in this video? Is that correct? Just clarifying. Thx
dmajorhiphopproducer 2 years ago
No, I have never been interviewed.
39Mustangman 2 years ago
@39Mustangman ok. i guess you were referring to your postings on this channel. Thx
dmajorhiphopproducer 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Yet another closeted homophobe is caught in a lie. Anti-gay CA state senator Roy Ashburn was arrested on DUI charges after leaving a Sacramento gay bar. He is a fierce opponent of gay rights, and is married to a woman, and has four children!
lisztnut 2 years ago
@melissarvv sorry you are so intolerant and afraid to accept the truth. Obviously you know more about all those rehabilitated homosexuals than they know about themselves so we should take your word over theirs
garysher3 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Did she really just call him "Dude" in this interview? She's a moron
andyottito 2 years ago
Trying to justify homosexual behaviour by saying that "baboons do it" is the most riotously funny excuse of them all!
And saying that homosexuality is natural because it occur in nature is also nonsense. Unless you believe that cleft palates and leprosy are also natural.
garysher3 2 years ago
@garysher3, trying to justify heterosexual behaviour just because you breed is also a ridiculous notion. How many Catholics still follow the church's teachings on birth control and sex outside of marriage? LOL! Homosexuality is RAMPANT in animals, and the truth of this is finally coming out, despite every effort to supress it... People who say homosexuality isn't a part of the natural scheme of things are not telling the truth....
lisztnut 2 years ago
Lisztnut, all I know is if you remove an animals reproductive organs it stops having sex. This is not true in humans. That is why I say the research is skewed. As long as the tools are there humans still have sex. I do not know these people you quote, or want to, but in the zoos across the nation it is a big deal when a rare animal has a tumor there or cancer, or accident in the reproductive at very young age. This is why sex with animals are instinctive instead of pleasure.
39Mustangman 2 years ago
I don't think you are correct about humans automatically having sex if they have their sex organs removed. Where did you hear that? That's a new one on me. And, you are simple WRONG about animals having sex for pleasure. How many sources do I need to quote before you'll believe me. Apparently, prior research had not resulted in this conclusion, because researchers were embarrassed or pressured to reveal the truth. Didn't you read that book review I sent you, which clearly stated this?
lisztnut 2 years ago
I never once mentioned sex organs. REPRODUCTIVE organs are not the same as sex organs. Yes, a baby would die if left in the woods alone. They can not change their diapers, can not walk, talk, and can not crawl All learned behavior. Most animals walk a day out of the womb. HUMANS have no instincts. A child 5 and under would probably die in the woods. How would they know what to eat, another learned behavior. Do you know what instincts are? They are not learned behaviors.
39Mustangman 2 years ago
By the way, the same is true of the research into human sexual orientation. In fact, there are many, many studies which lead to the conclusion that sexual orientation is caused by biology, genes or a combination. Unfortunately, the rightwing religious nuts don't want you to know about this. I think if the bible said the earth was flat (as they believed back then), those same people would insist that the earth is flat, despite the knowledge we have which disputes that.
lisztnut 2 years ago
This research has nothing to do with the bible or biblical teachings. This is about research you have sent me. I am telling you what I know. I KNOW humans have no instincts, everything is taught to a child, instincts are not learned behaviors. That is why they are instincts. Animals will not have sex again once they have no reproductive organs. Humans will have sex without reproductive organs. Many woman have no ovaries, but still have sex, men have no testes still have sex. Animals dont.
39Mustangman 2 years ago
I'm not sure where you're getting your info, but I'm VERY skeptical about a lot of it. Frankly, it makes NO rational sense. I do NOT believe that an infant left in the woods would not eat something, eventually. And, I've never heard the part about animals not having sex if they don't have reproductive organs. This flies in the face of the FACT that animals have same sex relationships. You are trying to say that without procreation animals don't have sex. It's NONSENSE. They DO...
lisztnut 2 years ago
And, I've also pointed out to you, and provided proof, that animals have sex for pleasure, and not just dolphins. Research into this field has been historically very limited, until fairly recently. That's because of the "agenda" of the Christian right to suppress such knowledge...
lisztnut 2 years ago
@39Mustangman When you remove an animals reproductive organs, they still try to grind up on things.
dancesonpoles 1 year ago
@dancesonpoles That is ludicrous. I grew up on a farm, and once the reproductive organs were gone, not one animal had anything to do with either sex for sex. The animals were far more loving, happy and just had a better disposition than they ever had. I personally know I am nothing like an animal. I am far more intelligent and advanced than an animal. I live in house with electricity, running water a three car garage that has cars that take me places. Where are the other animals with that?
39Mustangman 1 year ago
@dancesonpoles ew how the hell does someone know something like that lol
paintycanjay 1 year ago
Also, you need to read up on what instincts are. Bodily functions are not one in the same.
39Mustangman 2 years ago
Quite frankly, I think your assertion that humans have NO instincts is complete nonsense. Do you mean to tell me an abandoned baby in the woods wouldn't know to eat something? That's insane. We ALL have instincts. Babies have fear, and this IS an instinct. I've mentioned crying many times, and you seem to ignore that. Isn't crying a human instinct that expresses fear and anger? I've been told that if you make a scary or mean face in front of a baby it WILL cry. Isn't this an instinct?
lisztnut 2 years ago
Crying is the only thing babies do, more of response to stimuli. They do not cry to faces, heck a baby will not even laugh until it is three months old, can not even sit up till three months or older. I have substitute taught in schools, I have two boys. I had a baby sister when 12, I know about babies. All the behaviors are responses to stimuli. Not the same as an instinct, like walking out of the womb.
39Mustangman 2 years ago
So when he "healed his wounds" and "experienced healthy relationships with guys" it magically made his penis respond to pussy instead of dick? Amazing!
papatoony 2 years ago
many 55 year old men become alcoholics, homosexuals, drug addicts or are drawn into some other destructive deviant behavioural pattern.
Homosexuality has no purpose, it is nothing more than a deviant behavioural syndrome.
I feel no intimidation from homos who deceive themselves about being married.
I only feel sympathy at their pathetic status
garysher3 2 years ago
Gary, nobody "becomes" homosexual. They either are or AREN'T homosexual. All the men I know who came out later in life as homosexuals knew all along they were gay, but it was idiots like YOU that prevented them from being who they are inside. You have NO idea the pressures people endure to "conform" to heterosexuality. We live in a heterosexual world. Mustang is an example of this. He was "shamed" into behaving as a heterosexual, even though I believe he is still homosexual in his soul.
lisztnut 2 years ago
Gary, your own behaviour confirms why it is that so many people don't have the COURAGE to be gay. It takes more balls than you could ever muster. I guarantee it... Gays are verbally abused and sometimes physically harrassed EVERY day. Your playground behaviour is just one example of it. And, you still can't accept that my marriage is EQUAL to yours, can you? How many times have you beaten your wife thinking about MY marriage? Your wife must be a bloody pulp by now...
lisztnut 2 years ago
Gary better be careful what he wishes for. One of us gays might just take his advice and "turn" straight...and then take his wife ;)
You really want more competition than you already have, Gary?
papatoony 2 years ago
listznut-it's tragic that your butt buddy is so indoctrinated with the homosexual lifestyle and so hates Christians that he refuses to help homosexuals overcome their unwanted deviancy and tries to turn them against the love of Jesus Christ.
He really needs to re-think the evil he is doing or tear up his licence
garysher3 2 years ago
Have you beaten your wife today, Gary? Go do your duty.... Hit her one for me, too...
lisztnut 2 years ago
Hey man, I am not going to comment on him, but you can add me as a friend. Thanks for chatting with me.
39Mustangman 2 years ago
Yeah, I know Gary is a real piece of work. He has lots of mental problems. It is illustrated in his comments. I sure hope his poor wife isn't beaten to death one day. I pity his 2.5 below average children, too... Sad, isn't it? A grown man acting like he's on the playground....
lisztnut 2 years ago
Gary, you seem to have overlooked that Mustang's problem was sex ADDICTION, NOT homosexuality. He admited this himself, and said he hadn't been honest with his therapists. It was society's abusive treatment of gays that made him decide to try to be straight. Sad... We should sympathize with him rather than point a finger of blame towards him. I know several straight people who are sex adicts too...
lisztnut 2 years ago
Jesus loves both you.
39Mustangman 2 years ago
@39Mustangman Jesus loves us all and He is especially proud of you for resisting your unwanted homosexual yearnings.
Thank God you have not become filled with anger and hatred like listznut
garysher3 2 years ago
I am filled with love, Gary. I don't beat my spouse. I don't spend my days trolling around on youtube to bash another group of people who would simply like to have the civil rights YOU take for granted. I wouldn't call that anger. But, I have a REASON to be angry. I will continue to fight for the rights of my fellow gay brethren to have the "FREEDOM" to marry. Is this acting out of hatred and anger? NO, that would be YOU. My marriage has no impact on your life, yet you act as if it does.
lisztnut 2 years ago
Gary, why have you misinterpreted Jesus' teachings, and twisted the bible so as to bash gays? You need to realize that not every Christian feels as you do. But, apparently, it is more important to IMPOSE your views on homosexuality on everyone. This is NOT a Democratic principle, is it? That's called Facism.... Gays want the freedom to marry, something I think Jesus would have approved of. Especially considering the FACT that he never mentioned homosexuality...
lisztnut 2 years ago
Mustang, I have heard that phrase all my life, but find it rather odd that a dead person would love me! No offense, but I don't believe Jesus is alive now....! I wish only the best for you, and your family, and I would hope you'd feel the same about me and my family... Unfortunately, there are far too many bullies around, such as Gary, who don't want my family to exist. He's intimidated by the fact that I'm legally married. He lays awake at night just thinking of my marriage. So sad...
lisztnut 2 years ago
Mustangman, one more thing. I know half a dozen men personally who were once in heterosexual relationships (most of them married with children), and they have come out of the closet as gay men later in life. One of them is 55, and has two grown daughters. What do you think of these people, in light of what has happened in your life? I view it as a "reverse" setting "free" from a "pretend" life that these men were living. In EVERY case, the men are finally happy being who they are....
lisztnut 2 years ago
For the Jesus loves you, and for the case of the men "coming out" at age 55. I stated Jesus loves you, because of faith, coming out and love. I spent years in counseling, both secular and christian. Looking back, seemed like a waste of money, and time, when all I had to do was ask for Jesus to guide, and take my life daily. Amazing how something simple could be so free and easy, yet I had wasted years of money, and time that I can never get back. That is what I mean by being truly free.
39Mustangman 2 years ago
Mustang, I'm saying that for some people, they are experiencing the "freedom" to be who they are for the first time later on in life. Isn't their journey from being involved in a way of life that is alien to THEM, just as compelling as your story of the opposite journey? I would imagine there are far more people who have been in "faux" hetero relationships, and eventually felt that they could finally be "free" to be themselves as gay people. Don't forget that there is pressure to conform.
lisztnut 2 years ago
I do not agree with the professionals. I searched porfessionals in South Carolina, Boston, Flordia, and Southern Cali for help, to the point no one believed I could change. I am here to tell you that it is possible. I had to come home to chase all the demons. Imagine being everywhere, only to come back nearer to the place I grew up to find myself. All it took, for me, was to ask Jesus Daily. That is all it took. I did not look for a denomination, just asking Jesus.
39Mustangman 2 years ago
Let me ask you something very personal. If during your years of your sexual addiction you had met one man who you really loved, would you have felt different about this whole situation if you had had the "freedom" to marry that person, and make a committment to only one person? Just curious... It seems to me here we are talking about different issues. Your issue was sex addiction, and not your orientation per se.... I'm not trying to persuade you to be gay, just asking...
lisztnut 2 years ago
If you know anything about addictions, you know that would never have been possible to be monogamous. You can not allow a fox to guard the hen house. You can not allow an alcoholic to be an open bartender. I can not go back. I am not repressing the feelings. I am moving forward. Once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic.
39Mustangman 2 years ago
Yes, I agree it is great that you've kicked your sex addiction, and I also agree that there is no turning back. You are to be applauded for being able to get rid of this demon in your life. But, I'll repeat what I said earlier. Your sexual orientation is unrelated to your sex addiction. These are two VERY different issues. There are many heterosexuals who are sex addicts, in fact there is a TV reality show about it with Dr. Drew Pearson (sp?) that I saw once.
lisztnut 2 years ago
Yes, Heter people are not ammuned to anything that homo people have. In my case, once I went through what I went through, I had put sex on hold, believe me, it can be done. After the process, I had no desire to be with anyone but this special lady. The sexual desires had left, but it took 5 years after I asked Jesus on a daily basis, and about 10 failed tries. No different than any other addiction. Just like a smoker, they are over it after 5 years sober.
39Mustangman 2 years ago
Mustang, one thing is very curious about your story. Most men, myself included, seem to have lots of sexual fantasies going through our heads. During the time you were having sex only with men, did you at ANY time fantasize about women? And, conversely, have you ever caught yourself now fantasizing about men, or even about past sexual encounters with men? Not trying to pry, just trying to understand you. I find it VERY odd if you don't have sexual fantasies. VERY odd...
lisztnut 2 years ago
I did have, but the fantasies and dreams have seemed to move in a different direction, and that is one thing that Cohen addresses EXCELLENT is his earlier books. Unfortunately, you would have to read it. That is where sex experts NEED to get advice from, since I have been through their therapy and it sucks. Even an ivy leaguer. However, Cohen is not the best. I have read Drew's books, some, I have read countless books on the issue, when I wasn't groping men for sex.
39Mustangman 2 years ago
You know the interesting thing is that anyone could theoretically change their behavior, just as left handed people can learn to write with their right hand. However, I firmly believe that our innate orientation can NEVER change. I mean, just look at Cohen above and tell me that anyone who meets him isn't going to assume he's gay. Who is he trying to fool here? I suppose a straight person could have a sexual relationship with a same sex partner, too, right?
lisztnut 2 years ago
If you can change behavior, you can change anything. I am in love. I love her for being with me. I love her for being alive. I look forward to growing old with her. I do not have to fantisize! It is there, and wants me, I do need to fantisize. You may think I am gay too, but that makes no difference. What counts is where the heart is. Fantasies can be changed too, The whole process is not easy, and it takes time.
39Mustangman 2 years ago
You feel about your wife exactly as I do about my husband. These are all human feelings that nobody should discount. The aspect I seriously question is the "reason" you felt compelled to changed. My sexuality as a beautiful part of who I am, and I see no reason to change it. To me it is as much a part of me and my being as is my gender and race. There is no reason to change it. I do NOT buy into the religious notion that there is something bad about being gay. It's NATURAL!
lisztnut 2 years ago
Did you know that there are 450 documented species of animals that mate with same sex partners for life? Some researchers believe it is NECESSARY for the survival of the species, as it cuts down on overpopulation. Isn't it plausible, therefore, that homosexuality is natural and nothing to shun? This is my point. You've bought into the false notion that homosexuality is something wrong or against "god." I don't buy it for a minute. And, it's tragic that you've "changed" your orientation.
lisztnut 2 years ago
Hmm, I read millions of books growing up about animals. The only animal that ever has sex for pleasure is a human, and a porpoise, and 100% of them are hetero Even the highly intellectual elephant only has sex to spead the species. A male dog will hump anything. I never set out to "cure" me of Homosexuality, but it worked out. I just left my mind open and just went with it. Everything just fell into place when I started asking Jesus to guide me daily and let me live the way he wanted.
39Mustangman 2 years ago
Mustang, as I said before, I'm HAPPY that everything has worked out for you to be happy. That's ALL that's important, isn't it? I'm happy too, and I'm proud that didn't listen to the religious uptraining I had regarding my orientation. I happen to know that the people who use the bible to condemn homosexuality are WRONG. But, each of us must live our OWN lives, correct?
lisztnut 2 years ago
Actually, you're wrong about animals, many of them have sex for pleasure. In fact that video says that animals have sex MORE often than humans, and that most of it is for pleasure. Once again, here it is:
Homosexuality in the Animal Kingdom (National Geographic)
To show you how political things can be, there has been a concerted effort by conservative religious folks to suppress the research into homosexuality in the animal kingdom. Researchers have been denied grants, etc...
lisztnut 2 years ago
I just realized that you said you read millions of books growing up. This indicates to me that you haven't read the latest research on homosexuality in animals. I recommend you start reading again, as you'll be fascinated how horny those animals are! Did you know that same sex partners mate for life in animals? It's fairly common, actually... There is a species of rams that force all their members to have homo anal intercourse to climax, and they will reject any ram that doesn't participate.
lisztnut 2 years ago
This youtube video will educate you about homosexuality and the animal kingdom:
Homosexuality in the Animal Kingdom (National Geographic)
lisztnut 2 years ago
I do not like getting this information from youtube. I will have to read up on it. Most animals use sex as way of keeping the species alive, it is not about pleasure. The cats, after seeing what they look like, I can not even image a homosexual cat. Painful to even think about. I am skeptical, because the research business is skewed. All animals with pet each other, and show affection too! Males or females. Usually the petting in the cat world is about dominance.
39Mustangman 2 years ago
@39Mustangman, You are absolutely correct that research into homosexuality in animals has been skewed, and it's been skewed towards DENYING that this phenomenon exists so prevalently in nature. As a matter of fact, there is MORE homosexual sex in animals than in humans. And it involves intercourse, not just petting, as well as life long mating of same sex partners. And, you are also wrong about the pleasure part. Animals LOVE sex just for how it feels. Procreation is a side effect.
lisztnut 2 years ago
Research in general is skewed, because it depends on the researcher doing the research. With that said, there are millions of studies on Animals, and only one like the one you are talking about. Again, it has been stated the ONLY animal to have sex for pleasure is a porpoise, or dolphin. I know farm animals are not bright enough to think in that way. A male dog will hump anything. Therefore, with my experience and knowledge, I seriously doubt this researchers research.
39Mustangman 2 years ago
@39Mustangman, no, you are very wrong about this. There have been MANY researchers who've found homosexuality rampant in the animal kingdom, not just one. As I said, this was covered up for years, and researchers were refused grants because of the conservative "agenda" to hide this.
lisztnut 2 years ago
I do not think for a second that the right wing has any more wild ideas than the left side. I am very middle of the road here. If you go on a Toyota website to find information about a car, then your information is skewed. You have not looked into Honda, Ford, BMW. If you go on a gay and lesbian website to find information about homosexuality, then your information is skewed. The same with the animals. I am not here to argue that, it explains little, and seems lopsided. Just tell the truth
39Mustangman 2 years ago
@39Mustangman, oh yes, you are VERY right about everything you just said. I agree completely. That's why I'm telling you that research into homosexuality in animals has been historically repressed if not downright discouraged. UNTIL NOW! Finally, the truth has come out, and it cannot be denied. Homosexuality is actually MORE common in animals than in humans. Know why? Because animals don't worry about what a reliigous group or their "society" thinks about it. They act out of instincts.
lisztnut 2 years ago
That is right, animals act on instinct, not on sexual desires. Homosexual orientation is a desire, not an instinct. Humans have no instincts. Animals rely on instinct to get by. Therefore, I doubt this study and any that thinks animals have the intelligence to comprehend homosexuality. They are instinctual animals! There is only one animal that has sex for pleasure. I am sure of that.
39Mustangman 2 years ago
Mustang, I totally disagree about humans not having instincts. Where did you get that idea from? You have children, and must have certainly seen how your kids acted as infants. They act just like animals when they are young. They cry when they don't get what they want. Isn't that an instinct? It's certainly not a "learned" behavior or something done by the intellect. The National Geographic video on animal homosexuality explicitely talks about sex for pleasure. They don't agree with you.
lisztnut 2 years ago
Humans do not have instincts. That is a fact, they have to learn how to eat. My children never acted like an animal, AT ALL. This National Geographic Video, is trying to relate this to humans. I can tell you, I am not an animal. I think, I believe, and I know. When an animal can do that, then I will believe what he says, but He is justifying a hypothesis, with is his own belief system. HE is TOTALLY wrong. Animals live by instinct, and HUMANS DON T. His theory is skewed.
39Mustangman 2 years ago
Mustang, humans don't have instincts? What kind of NONSENSE is that? Why did your kids cry as children? Were they taught this? No, it is an instinct. When I child wants something they cry.
lisztnut 2 years ago
So, your children didn't know how to urinate? Isn't this an instinct?
lisztnut 2 years ago
Animals do not have sex for pleasure, Except for a dolphin.
39Mustangman 2 years ago
Mustang, you are WRONG, once again. Animals DO have sex for pleasure. There is a species of monkey were the females lick each others vaginas. This is OBVIOUSLY for pleasure, as it does not lead to procreation. Watch the video, and then we can discuss this further:
Homosexuality in the Animal Kingdom (National Geographic) Why do you insist on trying to convince me of something based on your personal "opinion" without listening to the experts in this field?
lisztnut 2 years ago
Since you like to read, here are two recommendations for you:
Pleasurable Kingdom: Animals and the Nature of Feeling Good
Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity
You can find them on amazon...
lisztnut 2 years ago
Did you teach your children how to cry? Where did they learn it from, if not? I think crying is a natural instinct, that is akin to animal behavior...
lisztnut 2 years ago
Editorial review excerpt: Most scientists have thus far studiously avoided the topic of widespread homosexual behavior in the animal kingdom--sometimes in the face of undeniable evidence. Astounding as it sounds, a number of scientists have actually argued that when a female Bonobo wraps her legs around another female ... while emitting screams of enjoyment, this is actually "greeting" behavior, or "appeasement" behavior ... almost anything, it seems, besides pleasurable sexual behavior.
lisztnut 2 years ago
Mustang, I sent your inbox further editorical review comments about those books I've listed below. I think you'll be fascinated about how scientists have tried to deny and cover up, or make excuses for homosexuality in animals...
lisztnut 2 years ago
Animals (both heterosexual and homosexual) also rape and divorce, commit "child" abuse and infidelity and can be lifelong celibates. Human claims to uniqueness in this arena are shown to be increasingly difficult to maintain. The overall effect is to detonate the myth that animals are solely driven by heterosexual reproductive urges
lisztnut 2 years ago
Wouldn't the research be better if the researcher was not looking for this and found it? This researcher was looking for this and found what he wanted to find. The timing of this article is also kind of poor. If he had done this in the 1970's there may have been more validity, but that did not happen then. Also, why would a heterosexual not want to condone their life by finding hetero in the animal kingdom, which was not really found either. It was to keep the species alive!
39Mustangman 2 years ago
@39Mustangman, and homosexuality keeps the species alive, too! I've been to China, and have heard about the policy of "forced abortions" when a family has more than one child. Homosexuality would be an improvement over that, don't you think? Homosexuals will save the planet? The earth is overpopulated, there's no two ways about it. There are simply TOO many humans, and it is strangling the planet.
lisztnut 2 years ago
Abortion is not an answer. Governments that make laws do not make anything right, just legal. This paragraph is loaded. I just know what is right for me, because I have it all. I just think everyone should have a choice, and know going in that if you look back and expect it to happen overnight, you are not going into it with the wrong attitude. Make a decision, and do not look back.
39Mustangman 2 years ago
@39Mustangman, I agree that abortion isn't the answer, but the Chinese simply didn't know how to reduce their population, and resorted to the unthinkable: forced abortions if a couple has more than one child. I also agree with you that we should live our lives to the fullest, and never look back. That's why I'm thrilled I came out of the closet at 20 and have never regretted a moment of my life. I wouldn't change a thing, but wish I could have married earlier. It would have made a difference
lisztnut 2 years ago
The point is that it's what's "inside" that counts. When I was having sex with women I always thought of men as a way of "getting through" the experience. It was painful, for sure, and these girls never knew what was going on in my head. That's why I was probing what goes on in YOUR mind when you are having sex with your wife, or even when you were with men. If you found yourself fantasizing about women when you were with men, there was something definitely WRONG!
lisztnut 2 years ago
Cohen Addresses this to a tee! He addresses the fantasies. I do not know of anyone that does that as well as he does!
39Mustangman 2 years ago
I believe that the people who concocted the bible preached against homosexuality (although is apparently still debatable), because they wanted people to "mulitply." This is the reason ANY form of sex was traditionally a sin in the Catholic church (including oral sex between married straight couples, and masterbation), beccause it didn't lead to procreation. Birth control is still viewed as a sin, as far as I know... Therefore, homosexuality was included in this list of "sins."
lisztnut 2 years ago
Actually, I take one thing back. Sexual orientation could have something to do with sex addiction in the sense that homosexual men notoriously have better sex, more often. This is something straight men love to point out, because they say gays are "promiscious." I think they say this out of jealousy, frankly. Anyway, just thought I'd throw that out there. I think it is easier to be a sex addict if you are gay, because we have far more opportunities for sex than straight men.
lisztnut 2 years ago
Gary, Mustang also agrees with me that you cannot "pray away the gay." There is NO such thing. Ted Haggard agrees... Once you are gay, you are ALWAYS gay... Just like you: Once you are a bully, you are ALWAYS a bully... Still on the playground Gary.... SAD,,,,
lisztnut 2 years ago
I did not say once gay always gay.
39Mustangman 2 years ago
Mustang, once again, I don't want you to misunderstand where I'm coming from. I celebrate your journey of "freedom" from sex addiction. This is a personally reaffirming action that you did out of self love. I personally do NOT believe that you are no longer gay. I believe you have "repressed" those feelings in order to conform to your religious beliefs, and the pressures you feel from society at large (especially living in the midwest). That being said, there IS a better way! Just saying.
lisztnut 2 years ago
Repression or no repression. I can only stay true to what I have, compared with a lousey past! I truly am free of those demonds. Gay or straight, its a part of my past, not who I am. There may be a better life, but I have wasted too much time looking for something that was unfulfilling. I will always look to better myself, but it needs to be with a clear mind, and not to fulfill a sexual desire that brought me to a near death sentence.
39Mustangman 2 years ago
Well said! I think the point I brought up about my friends who were once in straight relationships (which didn't make them happy) and are now gay only illustrates the opposite side of this argument. They weren't happy living a "lie" and it was only after they "accepted" their homosexual orientation that they were truly "happy." One of them is giddy with excitement because he is in his first relationship with a man (he has two grown daughters). He would like to marry his partner some day.
lisztnut 2 years ago
Our sexual orientation is formed VERY early in life, some experts say by the age of two it is set. It is ours to "discover" in our puberty. I suppose in your case it is POSSIBLE, although unlikely, that you are heterosexual in orientation, but something traumatic happened and you acted on same sex attractions that were not your innate orientation. I highly doubt it, though. I agree with the mental health pros that say you CANNOT change your orientation.
lisztnut 2 years ago
I am not sure orientation is the correct term. I was so young when I was messed with that I did not have an option to change that. The outcome may have been different if I did not have information that should never been provided to me. Once a child is given sexual information, that child has been set up to fail in life. You know children grow quickly, and they can never make any choices, just deal with the blows they are given. I hear they are resilient, but what choice do they have?
39Mustangman 2 years ago
Your experiences are so very different from mine. I knew that I was gay many decades before I was able to 'act' on my orientation. I was basically trapped in a heterosexual environment, and felt it was the ONLY way. But, all along, even though I had girlfriends, I knew it wasn't right for me, and I dreamed of being with a man. Nobody forced me into being gay, nobody molested me. It seems to me you were traumatized by someone who forced you into sex acts. This definitely required therapy.
lisztnut 2 years ago
How could you have possible knew before you were able to remember?
39Mustangman 2 years ago
Mustangman, my earliest memories involve having "crushes" on guys who were older than myself. I remember this distinctly, and it was before I went to school, too! You don't have to believe me on this, but I've read many experts in child development and they agree that sexual orientation is like handedness, formed VERY early, if not BEFORE birth. That's another topic for discussion...
lisztnut 2 years ago
Gary, I heard on the radio tonight the startling statistic that one in every four women is either raped or beaten up during her lifetime! Who do think is responsible for this, Gary? Do you think gay men are raping and beating on women? I wonder who that is, Gary...? Maybe you can fill me in? Apparently, you aren't alone when it comes to abusing women... Straight men are the perpetrators just about 100 perent of the time. Why is that, Gary? What's all that rage about?
lisztnut 2 years ago
listznut-hopefully you will take a page out of 39Mustangman's book and realise that you too can overcome your tragic homosexual affliction if you really want to
garysher3 2 years ago
Gary, I have NO affliction, rather YOU have an affliction. You are obsessed with my marriage, and cannot accept that my marriage is EQUAL to your sham of a marriage in the eyes of our state...
lisztnut 2 years ago
Gary, I'm here to tell Mustang that he didn't have to deny his sexual orientation in order to be happy. In fact, I'm living proof of a happily married gay man! IF being gay were a choice, I'd DEFINITELY choose it again. NO question about that...
lisztnut 2 years ago
I love the way Cohen nails Rachel in this interview and exposes her hypocrisy, denialism and lack of preparation
garysher3 2 years ago
I love the way Rachel makes Cohen look like a total FOOL. And, all she does is let him speak for himself. His assertions are so ridiculous as to be laughable without any comments from Rachel... I would like someone to speak out about the ex-heterosexuals in the world, and watch the reaction they get...
lisztnut 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Gary she, here's a good video for you to watch:
Betty Bowers Explains Traditional Marriage to Everyone Else
lisztnut 2 years ago
Gary she, another educational youtube vid:
Mrs. Betty Bowers: Less is Mormon
lisztnut 2 years ago
Nobody needs to choose to be heterosexual because it is the normal natural purpose of human sexuality. Likewise nobody needs to choose to chew with their teeth instead of their hands.
Being sober and not inhaling tobacco smoke are also normal natural behaviours.
Homosexuality, alcoholism and smoking are all deviant destructive behaviours.
It's really not that difficult especially for someone who claims to have an academic background
garysher3 2 years ago
Yes, you chose to be heterosexual Gary. According to you, sexual orientation is something we choose, therefore I'm waiting for your answer to my question: WHEN did you choose to be heterosexual? And, also, when did you choose to be male?
lisztnut 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Jesus, gives you freedom, not restraints. You have stated yourself, there is no cure for homosexuality. Therefore, you have just restained yourself. I am not a bible toting preacher. I am here to tell you I am happy being an ex gay. God gave me the challenge of same sex attraction, how I deal with it is my choice. With God there are no boundaries, only the ones we place on ourselves. I am not judging anyone, I have no right too. Just stating the facts.
39Mustangman 2 years ago
I make no judgements about you pretending to be heterosexual, either. I am here to tell you there is a BETTER way. You don't have to deny your innate orientation in order to be accepted by society. This group is proof that the "pray away the gay" phenomenon is a myth. These are testimonials of people of faith, like you, who tried and failed at "faking" being heterosexual:
beyondexgay org
lisztnut 2 years ago
I am glad you are happy. The studies are by unbiased researchers, but being in the field myself I was restrained and told to not publish anything that did not shed a positive light on the situation. So the whole study, all the years and money were wasted. Second, I went out of my way to make sure that homosexuality was right and just. However, the study, that I am not allow to elaborate on, because of a job, did not do that. I am sure that countless more are just the same.
39Mustangman 2 years ago
Enough about that. I really could care less about some study. What I did one day after years of empty sex and many many men. What I did was this. I finally fell down, and asked Jesus to just take my life an run it. The first year I did that, I still was hunting men for sex. The second year I did that (Mind you, this was on a daily basis, I never wavered once). I did not go und having random sex. However, the same sex attraction was there..
39Mustangman 2 years ago
Mustangman, I was raised in a strongly religious home. My father's an Evangelical minister (in OHIO!), and I know all too well where you are coming from regarding Jesus. My journey from believer to non-believer is another story, but suffice it to say I do NOT believe that we need to "change" something as important to us as our sexuality in order to follow the teachings of any religion. It is WRONG, as a matter of fact. It would be like asking someone to change their gender or race.
lisztnut 2 years ago
First of all, thanks for the kindness, although I can not necessarily agree anymore. There was a time I could and would have agreed, but I can not now. I am not living a lie, I am telling you, and the world from the bottom of my heart. That I have no same sex attraction. As for the bible thing, it was not even part of the equation at the time of the addiction, because I would have done anything it took, to get over that. To tell you the truth, I even have a deep compassion for everyone!
39Mustangman 2 years ago
Are you aware that the Catholic church agrees with me on this? They say sexual orientation is INNATE, and CANNOT be changed. They recommend that gay people remain celibate, and not try to change to heterosexual. I agree completely. I believe that you actually can "fool" society and yourself into thinking that your orientation has changed, but it actually CAN'T change, unless you are bisexual, which is a very small percentage of the population...
lisztnut 2 years ago
I do not know what to say to that, but I can tell you! I am here, and I can not think of sex with men again because of the brother father, son thing. I was groomed to have same sex attraction from the time I was old enough to remember, because a guy who was about 3 years older than me, and kept messing with me. I wanted it, but I did not know to process the information. It really is not something a child should have brought on to him, just like forcing anyone into therapy. NOT a good idea.
39Mustangman 2 years ago
I had very different experiences from you growing up. I was never forced into any same sex relations of any kind. In fact, I didn't know there were other gay people until I got to college. I thought I was the ONLY one. Therefore, I've never bought into this myth that gays are the way we are because someone molested us, or because of our environment. I was raised in a 150 percent hetero world, and told that being gay was bad and against Jesus...
lisztnut 2 years ago
The third year the same sex attraction was still there, but a transformation of believing men were my brothers, sons, and fathers. With that my head, it was kind of hard to get any type of stimuli. The fact that I started believing that, kind of made me nasuated to think of men in that way. Now, you can call me a liar, and downplay my abilty to do what I did. Dr. Spitzer did not say it was impossible to change, just very difficult. Homosexuality, for me, was totally like a herione addiction
39Mustangman 2 years ago
It was taking up all my time looking for sex. It was cutting into my personal time. It was to the point my job was on the line, and I had not one lasting relationship. I would have done anything to hook up. I know I was a sex addict. I did not set out to be an ex gay, but that is how it happened.
39Mustangman 2 years ago
I do not want anything more than I have, and I can not go back to living, and searching for sex with a male again. I am sorry man. You do not have to convert, but for me it was miserable. Now, that I think of guys as a father brother, or son, I feel way more connected to them, and I am not being friends with them based on their looks.
39Mustangman 2 years ago
Watch this youtube video for proof of how the religious right has misinterpreted the bible and used it to oppress gays throughout the 20th Century:
The Bible Told Me So (in ten parts)
The film interviews top biblical scholars about the bible and homosexuality. You will be AMAZED how the bible has been twisted in order to denegrate gay people. It will make you cry... I hope some day you will be "free" of this oppression and once again learn to love yourself for who you are...
lisztnut 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Forcing anyone into something he does not want to do is like placing a square peg in round hole. First of all, if you think ex gay works every single time the first time. Your wrong, because just like being a good athlete, you need to keep it up, or even if you try to diet, you need to keep it up. This issue should never be taken lightly. However, you need to look at all facts. Check out Dr. Spitzers study. He was critizied for it, even though he got homosexuality off the APA!
39Mustangman 2 years ago
And, there is far too much emphasis on this supposed "conspiracy" theory of getting homosexuality removed as a disease by the APA. What is far more fascinating is to study how it got placed on the list in the 1950s. Before 1950, homosexuality was considered a NORMAL varient of human sexuality. It was the Kinsey report in the 50s that prompted the APA to place homosexuality on the mental illness list. Know why? Political pressures from the conservative religious right. FACT!
lisztnut 2 years ago
If you have read my story, anything more you say can not possibly move me to go back to homosexual life. However, it was and will always be a part of who I was, not who I am.
39Mustangman 2 years ago
Mustangman, I don't mean to pry too much, but are you African-American? The reason I asked is I have a friend who is gay, and African-American, and he's struggling with his sexual orientation right now. He sounds EXACTLY like you in the way he approaches this. He feels it is his orientation that is responsible for his sex addiction, too.... You don't have to answer this, but just curious... I think there is a cultural aspect here that is very revealing.
lisztnut 2 years ago
And, the reason the APA dropped homosexuality as an illness was because blind studies were done of homosexual and heterosexual patients in the 1970s, and it was found that there was NO difference in mental health between the two groups. You are walking PROOF of the pressures gay people endure at the hands of the religious right, and bigots like Garysher3, who are unfortunately the majority of Americans. Without this pressure, you could be free to be who you are inside.
lisztnut 2 years ago
After the addiction, i can not look back. I am far more happier where I am. I have only one attraction to one person. I can never ever let sex be the ruling nature of my life, because when it does that will be like the drunk who takes his last drink. I do not have one good memory of my prior life. I was critizied by my same sex attraction, and now I am critizied by my ex gay. There is no winning, but the love in me is far great, and I have no anger anymore!
39Mustangman 2 years ago
Thanks for your personal story. I appreciate that you shared that with me. However, I feel you are blaming sex addiction on your sexual orientation. This is a mistake. The two are not related. I am legally married gay man, and do not suffer from any addictions. My sexual orientation is not based on addiction. As long as you are happy, that's fine, but I frankly don't believe that you aren't still attracted to men. I can read between the lines. You are simply deceiving yourself.
lisztnut 2 years ago
I am not attracted to men, because of the father son, and brother thing. If you think of your father, do you have any stimuli there? If you do, then we are not on the same page, but if you do not, then you understand what I mean. Kind of gross now. You want me to truthful, I amdoing it for you. To answer your African American Question, I am blond hair blue eyed, and second generation Scandinavian, on my mothers side. Dad is French and German. Thanks for your kindness, but I good now.
39Mustangman 2 years ago
Well, in this way we are similar. I'm blond and blue eyed too, and people like me as well. In fact, girls still try to "hook" up with me. When I was in South America last year FOUR girls tried to seduce me... It was flattering, but to use your term, also "GROSS!"
lisztnut 2 years ago
I was referring to the African American aspect, because gays are particularly badly treated in the black community. That's why so many gay men end up married to women, and having sex on the "down low" behind their wive's back. It's so common that Oprah did a show about it...
lisztnut 2 years ago