Henry Gates and Ilan Stavans on Blacks in Latin America

[dogace]

mexico is so screwed up with race. i guess you didnt see the series with the 16 different categories of how they separate people. no wonder they dont know hat they are or what they want to be. they all want to be white and deny their african and indian roots. ive seen brown and dark mexicans declare themselves white. if that isnt confusion i dont know what is.african features abound in mexico from facial features to body shapes. indians/europeans are flat while africans are shapely

[dogace]

your so-called studies mean absolutely squat. anthropologist dont even classify people correctly. they take features and label them caucasian. caucasian doesnt mean white but people assume it and they dont tell you it doesnt mean white. they call everyone caucasian even people with pitch-black skin. saying that mexicans are 60% european is a joke. the facts of history says they were outnumbered by africans. africans fought to free mexico but then they get wiped from the history. sad people

[polinganerouniversal]

What these two scholars didn't say is that Las Casas, several years later, attacked Black African slavery in the New World after he witnessed how they were treated. Obviously, if gates and Stavans say that they would have to discuss about how Spaniards argued against Spaniards on Black African slavery as early as in the 1540s and 1550s. And this is something they don't know anything about.

[caviper1]

I dislike racists of every race.

[sourmanofcoal]

latinas

[SuperKenster1]

Latinos are not a race but a language identification. obviously Pau Gasol Celia Cruz and Andy Garcia are not of the same race,the only affliation is language. Latins were the inhabitants of the Roman area of Latium,

[brightlights456X]

What am I suppose to take from this video???

I'm pretty sure for the most part those of African decent and those of Hispanic/Mexican etc decent, do not get along.

[torr59622]

This series failed miserably-it left out huge, honest gaps about how race is portrayed. Puerto Rico must be included with any honest discussion regarding racial classification in Latin America.

[AlizeCiz]

hilst as a Dominican i find allot of the criticism of Latin America to reign true alot of it is seeded in American arrogance and misunderstanding. Americans can't lecture us on race, they still don't even recognize miscegenation. Too much bias and not enough ''understanding'' as HLGjr Claimed he would do.

[RafaelFernandeSantos]

@AlizeCiz I'm in agreement with you. This is a horrible series. It's basically Gates going around LatAm saying people deny their Blackness using US American views on racial classification. One couldn't get more superficial than that.

[NyaS92]

@RafaelFernandeSantos I agree with both of you. Latins don't deny our black heritage but his issue is that he doesn't realize that the one drop rule didn't exist for us. To me he's a little ignorant. Also Mexico has more indigenous and european not so much blacks. Also I ask why didn't he go to Panama? Why didn't he go to Colombia? Why didn't he go to Puerto Rico? Lord, I can go on and on.

[RafaelFernandeSantos]

@TonyElTijuanero The comments section is too strict when it comes to post size. I suggest you just PM me and I can PM you on the studies that I have found. I'll also post the link and you should do that too.

[RafaelFernandeSantos]

@TonyElTijuanero Anyway, in contrast to Mexico, Brazil experienced a large immigration of Europeans, so you shouldn't be surprised with the fact that there are more Whites in here. Studies show even the Northeast, the Blackest region in Brazil, is about 60-70% European: more than Northern Mexico. I can PM you those studies if you want to a scan the results tables. And btw, where did you see on the study I cited that the samples studied were the ones you talked about?

[RafaelFernandeSantos]

@TonyElTijuanero If you want to keep talking out of your ass, this is your problem. Ofc people are going to put the race they think they are. What race are they supposed to put? According to the 2010 Census Brazilians were 47% White and 53% Brown/Black. the Brazilian white population has been declining since the 50s as a result of lower fertility rates as compared to non-whites. That you say most Brazilian say they're White shows you don't know much about the country, you're talking to troll.

[RafaelFernandeSantos]

@TElT it seems you're trying to provoke me with this nationalistic discussion. I didn't mean to bring thing to that point. I've never been to Mexico but what I say is based on studies. And funny that you're the one saying that Brazilians want to be white when in fact it's you who are contradicting studies that say Mexicans are mostly Native.Most Brazilians don't identify as White as the Census show, so I have no idea where you took that from. Cont.

[DaddyKyan]

@lokhryu I wouldnt say it was as clear cut as that. The Afrikan participation in the slave trade has been well over blown. True in the begginning Afrikan Chiefs sold enemies as a way to rid them. But when they saw what European Slavery entailed the knew they made the wrong choice. By that time Arabs and whites had already took over the docks. Then they took slaves by force. Afrikan servants were never called slaves. That term comes from the European slave trade of the Slavics of the Caucaus.

[SrGurkman]

Pretty good other than Hinojosa switching to a Mexican accent every time she says a Spanish word. It's obnoxious when people do this with Spanish words in English or with English words in Spanish.

[NIGGAKILLAMF]

this black baboon is an idiot .

shut up you black baboon boy black boy slave boy

[djelawn]

And I dont appreciate the comment Africa is a cesspool,last time I checked,You go to these third world countries,little hole in the wall places,you got s*** outside,and the water everyone washing their a** and drinking it,because no water wells,and aids ,malaria,etc,is every where in those places as well,so,this whole world is one big cesspool,lol,for real!!

[77musica]

Every body just go to BLuefields Nicaragua and have a good time

[whitehispanish]

HENRY GATES COME FROM A SOCIETY THAT THE BLACK PEOPLE WERE EXTREMELY DISCRIMINATING, SEGREGATING, WHERE THE BLACK PEOPLE WERE CONSIDERED ANIMALS, IN THE UNITED STATES THE BLACK PEOPLE WERE LYNCHING, THEY DID NOT ALLOW THEM TO GO TO THE WHITE PLACES, THEY SUFFERED DURING THE CIVIL WAR AND DURING THE 60s, THEY SUFFER DISCRIMINATION YET,WHILE IN LATIN AMERICA THE BLACK PEOPLE WERE INTEGRATED 100 YEARS AGO,OF COURSE WITH SOME PREJUDICE,BUT THEY WERE NOT LYNCHING LIKE USA.

[djelawn]

@whitehispanish Let me tell you something,He been through that,but what he saying is true facts,do your research!!Blks aint no damn animals,yes we went though those things,but there was whites that fought for blks,as well,rascism,is rascism,if they did it in Latin America,USA,etc,bottom line its IGNORANT!!!So if you proud to say Latin America,is better then America,because they didnt Lynch us blacks,you sound like a ass!!!And last time I checked,you got black Latinos all over latin countries,WTF

[whitehispanish]

THIS BLACK WRITER HENRY GATE IS TOTALLY WRONG, HOUNDRED OF AFRICANS WERE BROUGH FROM AFRICA TO MEXICO AND SOME LATINAMERICAN COUNTRIES, AND THE QUESTION IS WHERE ARE THEY? WE CAN NOT SEE BLACK IDENTITY IN THE MEXICAN POPULATION, WHY? BECAUSE THE BLACK SLEVARY WHERE KILLED IN THE GENOCIDE IN MEXICO,, OF COURSE THERE ARE BLACKS IN MEXICO IN SOME AREAS LIKE VERACRUZ,COLIMA,CAMPECHE,ETC. BUT, THEY ARE NOT ENOUGH TO SAY THAT MEXICO IS AFROAMERICAN COUNTRY LIKE DOMINICAN REPUBLIC OR JAMAICA.

[MsJanetWood]

TYPO CORRECTION: POPULATION

[MsJanetWood]

Furthermore, look at typical Mexicans' features! Long, silky straight hair, almond-shaped eyes, high-cheek bones, aquiline noses, and lack of body hair. (In fact, when the natives saw the hairy Spaniards for the first time, they freaked out! They had never seen people with hair on their face and body!)

[MsJanetWood]

1. Yes, there are black people on the coast of Vera Cruz. Also, there are German Mennonites in Northern Chihuahua, and Chinese in Mexico City. There are Mexicans of Spanish, French, Irish, Italian, Lebonese, Jewish, descent etc.

But, the vast majority of the poplulation of Mexico are of indigenous descent. How do you account for the 62 indigenous dialects spoken all over Mexico? Many Mexicans still speak Nahuatl, Mixteca, or Zapotec languages, Amerindian languages. Furthermore, look at their

[TonyElTijuanero]

@MsJanetWood Yes the vast majority of the mexican population has indigenous and also european. DNA studies show mexicans have a higher white percentage than natives. Only 10% of the mexican population is indigenous, they live mostly in Southern Mexico along with the Afro-mexicans. They even did a study on mexicans who lived in Colorado, they took their dna and it showed they were 70% white and the rest native.

[RafaelFernandeSantos]

@TonyElTijuanero This isn't actually true. Mexicans are almost divided on Native and European ancestry - but on most studies the Native part predominates. See the article "Mexican people" on Wikiepedia. It has sums up some studies on the Mexican genetic composition.

[TonyElTijuanero]

@RafaelFernandeSantos Those studies were not done on mexicans from different states but mexicans from Mexico City, everyone knows people from Mexico City are mestizo being around 50% european, around 1-6% african and the rest indigenous. Northern Mexico scores higher on their DNA when it comes to their European side, about 60% or higher and even on 23andME, mexicans from Northern and Central western scored 70% and higher on their DNA.

[RafaelFernandeSantos]

@TonyElTijuanero That isn't true. Silva-Zolezzi et al. (2008), who found 55.2% of Native ancestry and 41.8% Euro, took samples from all over Mexico. Martinez-Fierro et al. (2009), who studied Northeastern Mexicans, found 56% Native ancestry and 38% European.

[TonyElTijuanero]

@RafaelFernandeSantos DNA done on poor mestizos from Northerneast, Mexico "european: 54.99% +/- 3.44, Native: 39.99% +/- 2.57, and African: 5.02% +/- 2.82" do you know who are the people that get these DNA test? Those are poor indigenous people from Northern Mexico who barely have money to eat. Its like saying that if Brasil decided to sample from the poor brasilians from the favelas, will that mean they represent all of Brasil and the people? NO, only the ones from their area

[TonyElTijuanero]

@RafaelFernandeSantos I will show you what I mean, these are genetics done in a mexican city called Monterrey which is in Northern Mexico. They did two studies on mestizos not castizo but mestizos. The first group of mestizos got "Spanish-European (50-60%) and Amerindian (37-49%) contributions; the African contribution (1-3%)". The second group of mestizos got "Spanish contribution (78.5%), followed by a Mexican Indian contribution (21.5%)" I will show you another example.

[TonyElTijuanero]

@RafaelFernandeSantos I will show you what I mean, these are genetics done in a mexican city called Monterrey which is in Northern Mexico. They did two studies on mestizos not castizo but mestizos. The first group of mestizos got "Spanish-European (50-60%) and Amerindian (37-49%) contributions; the African contribution (1-3%)". The second group of mestizos got "Spanish contribution (78.5%), followed by a Mexican Indian contribution (21.5%)" I will show you another example.

[TonyElTijuanero]

@RafaelFernandeSantos They did a study on Mexican-Americans from Arizona and they scored "Amerindian, 0.29 +/- 0.04; Spaniard, 0.68 +/- 0.05; and African, 0.03 +/- 0.02"

study on mestizos from Mexico City "Based on the results we found that the proportion of Indian and White genes are of 56.16 and 43.84%"

Northern Mexico and Central western Mexico always scores 60% or higher on their european side

[RafaelFernandeSantos]

@TonyElTijuanero Mexican Americans are different from real Mexicans, and I'm aware of genetic studies indicating they're more European than the population that resides in Mexico. Anyway, one of the studies that I cited was on Northeastern Mexicans - and they were still mostly Amerindian. The Sonora department, in the North, has one of the highest European admixture figures at 60-65% -- but that number isn't true of Northern Mexico as a whole, let alone the rest of the country.

[TonyElTijuanero]

@RafaelFernandeSantos Mexican Americans are not different from Mexicans, there only difference is that their parents are from Mexico, their genetics do not change by being born somewhere else. Exactly, and i just showed you other studies from two type of mestizos that were done in Northern eastern Mexico. The study that was done in Sonora included states like Tamaulipas, Guerrero, Veracruz, Zacatecas and Guanajuato, they did the study on poor mestizos, they even show pictures of them lol

[RafaelFernandeSantos]

@TonyElTijuanero I can't exactly point where they're different since I'm not a great connaisseur of Mexico. But genetic studies have consistently found Hispanics in the US are mostly European, while Mexican themselves are less so. I can only assume there are differences among the groups. Anyway, you didn't cite any study, you only showed the results. I'd be thankful if you told me their names. Sometimes old studies (specially those that use proteins as markers) come up with weird results. Cont.

[TonyElTijuanero]

@RafaelFernandeSantos I will send u the link of the forum of the studies so u can see them. And Mexico doesnt want to be white, they want to keep Mexico a mestizo nation, that is even the nick name we gave our country, we have no plans to become a white country, we are proud of the Amerindian roots that Mexico has. The census shows that they do, they give the census to the brasilians & they mark whatever race they think they are, majority marked white when in fact brasil is a tri-racial country

[RafaelFernandeSantos]

@TElT Ctd.

There's variability even among modern studies. For example, Wiki cites (but fails to name) a study that found MEX to be 58% European. In it Sonora came out as 70% Euro and Guerrero as 51%. In another modern study (Silva-Zolezzi et al., 2008) MEX was found to be 55% Native, with Sonora being 61% Euro and Guerrero only 30%. Both may be correct but found different results b/c of sample differences. Be that as it may most studies I've seen point to Mexicans being slightly more Native.

[TonyElTijuanero]

@RafaelFernandeSantos You have to understand that Sonora is a huge state lol that is why they usually do more than one study in Sonora and in other mexican states. Do you think if they did a study in Rio de Janeiro in the favelas, that study will represent all of Rio de Janeiro? Of course not, it only represent the ones in the favela or in that community but not all of Rio, what they do in Mexico is get more than 1 study on different communities in Mexico.

[RafaelFernandeSantos]

@TonyElTijuanero And how do you the study I cited isn't representative of Sonora?

[TonyElTijuanero]

@RafaelFernandeSantos Because the study was based on poor mestizos living in hoods, if they wouldve done a done of middle class mestizo and the richer class of people of Sonora, everything will be different, but the fact that they only test on poor mestizo in some COMMUNITY doesnt represent Sonora, it wouldve been different if they did a study in the city of Sonora. I will show you of what i mean in the message with the links

[TonyElTijuanero]

@RafaelFernandeSantos Of course its not true, northern mexicans score around 70% European or higher, everyone that knows about Mexico knows that Northern Mexico is the whitest region of Mexico followed by Central Western Mexico. Have you ever been to Mexico to start off? I have been to Brasil and theres a lot of black people, even your white brasilians have black and native american ancestry, its said that you brasilians want to be white when in mexico you would be mestizos/mulattos :D

[TonyElTijuanero]

@RafaelFernandeSantos Of course its not true, northern mexicans score around 70% European or higher, everyone that knows about Mexico knows that Northern Mexico is the whitest region of Mexico followed by Central Western Mexico. Have you ever been to Mexico to start off? I have been to Brasil and theres a lot of black people, even your white brasilians have black and native american ancestry, its said that you brasilians want to be white when in mexico you would be mestizos/mulattos :D

[RafaelFernandeSantos]

@TonyElTijuanero Anyway, studies have shown that even our mulattoes have more Euro ancestry than Mexicans. Studies have shown Brazil has around 65-75% European ancestry, with mulattoes being around 60-73% Euro. And mind you: in contrast to you, who's just pulling numbers out of your ass, I can prove my numbers with studies. Do you want me to name them? As I said, a study I cited showed Northeastern Mexicans are mostly Native. If you have a problem with that, argue with the author, white-wannabe.

[RafaelFernandeSantos]

@TonyElTijuanero By the way, 23andme doesn't say much. People who take 23andme are a self-selected sample, not a random one. Thus it can't be assumed to be representative for all of the country. The Brazilians who take 23andme come out as over 90% European. Of course that's not representative of the country as one can assume, for example, they'd be richer (they can pay the test, after all) than their average countryman.

[TonyElTijuanero]

@RafaelFernandeSantos 23andMe does not ship to Mexico or Latin America, the mexicans who take the test are the ones who left Mexico for a better life, or they are Mexican-Americans of parents who in Mexico were nothing more than peasants. You know how they say the poor mexicans are always the "indigenous" looking ones or the ones who go to the USA. But like I said, the test they did in Mexico was made in Mexico City and they dont represent all of us mexicans at all.

[skywalker71903]

When they come here they say they are not Black. Ridiculous. They are just ducking

[NIGGAKILLAMF]

this racist is a real idiot to boot.

negros ought to be lucky to have been brought in the americas.

look at the africans left behind.

africa is nothing more than a cesspool of disease, murder and starvation.

[KingPin19831]

thank you henry gates people need to this people need to learn about history because africans have a big influence on latin america rather latinos or hispanics or whatever you want to called them want to admit or not

[Yanipooh]

"africans suffer better and are less human"......they don't realise how deep this shit is. Was there skype meeting or maybe a regional handbook for colonizers and governments of the western hemisphere. How did they learn this so well? No matter the language the country, the decade it still exists, and subconsciouly many still believe it. It is why black slaves were the last to be freed, why caricatures minstrels and exploitation can continue and people think protesting them is silly/baseless.

[whitemanwaydownsouth]

@Yanipooh LOL please tell me when was the last time you saw a minstrel show?? pre ww2??

[Yanipooh]

@whitemanwaydownsouth the last time?

[Yanipooh]

@whitemanwaydownsouth check ur inbox i replied there

[whitemanwaydownsouth]

@Yanipooh i stand corrected, it was 60 years ago, not 70 years ago, my bad LOL

[Yanipooh]

@whitemanwaydownsouth huh? whaddya mean

[whitemanwaydownsouth]

@Yanipooh the video you sent me of the minstrel show was from 1951, 60 years ago. i incorrectly implied that the end of that sort of thing was done with by world war 2. my bad

[Yanipooh]

dearest colleague,

it seems you still have not caught my drift. Didn't school give you tools to  think critically, evaluate stimuli observe parallels compare and contrast? If you watched the videos you'd have seen that what existed then still exists now. In 2011 minstrel shows are very much alive. Does it matter that the clip is Peruvian? Did you specify where it should come from? No you didn't....Let me spell it out... you asked when last have I seen a mistrel show ... answer may 10, 2011.

[whitemanwaydownsouth]

@Yanipooh then you should move to the states, things that are racially offensive to minorities is illegal and grounds for financial compensation. i admit, i am no expert on whats offensive to south american blacks, so i have no frame of reference, sorry for the misunderstanding. you may want to check out the states, you would fit right in, you like obama?

[osiruskat]

@LoneCuetlachtli Whoa lol. calm down. I was asking a serious question. damn you tube people are soo sensitive. I have some Afro Cuban and Portuguese ancestry. I been around hispanic speaking cultures a good portion of my twenties. My question was it considered offensive. I know in America if someone called me a "zambo" (not knowing what it meant) I would be offended. Sorry if I phrased my question wrong. :p

[osiruskat]

@LoneCuetlachtli Question... does words like "zambos" "lobos" considered offensive by Afro mestizos? I know for Afro Americans the term "sambo" is very offensive. Just curious...there are soo many words to describe "blackness".

[iayyam]

You can't keep the blackness hidden forever.

[osiruskat]

Naw Brah I don't deny the truth it's just I've studied Black people influence worldwide for a lot of years. There are many books on the subject especially concerning Yanga. It's just that due to a whitening (Germans, Italians, Spaniards etc) of the mestizos, the African DNA is low in the majority of the country. In contrast, in Veracruz or the Southern Coast, it is much higher. I find it amazing that black Americans don't even know about Afro Latino cultures.

[patriciacarrasco]

the difference between america and latin america is that races in latin america were mixed without anybody caring whilst in north america this was all prohibited with laws and the "one-drop rule", this is the fundamental difference which causes people in both cultures to look at themselves differently...i dont think we can agree, just two different cultures

[SnarkyTM]

So, I'm guessing Mr. Gates agrees that race does exist? Or does he change gloves when he's around other scholars? Look, I'm a believer that race exists, but antis and progressives make the claim "we're all the same, and race is a social construct", I for one don't agree with that notion.

[osiruskat]

@SnarkyTM Really. I'm an American "black" but if you look at my genetic make up you would see more European markers than African. There are many people that look African in skin (truly black skin) and peppercorn hair but are Asian. In parts of Yorkshire, England the men have a very high marker A, an genetic haplogroup of Africa. Humans are different from each other by about 6%. We still bleed red, breath air and nothing YET has proved that we are different biologically.

[thicky]

however we are sayin bcos some africans mixed with mexicans they are black too. do we not see how confusing this gets? hat would make everyone in the world blk. when it comes down to it. and as the world has already been brainwashed to think in terms of colour as race we only get more delu

[thicky]

the concept of viewing black as a race and white should be scraped altogether, it is only color prejudice that has led to these issues. further the variations that make black and white are so visually deceptive that we can confuse ourselves thinking about race. i have seen whit folks in europe with afros like blk folks suggesting that there is a blk ancestry but not saying they are blak nor would we consider them black.

[thicky]

but spaniards as a people are not fully white either. they are cross breds with moors and arab groups even hebrew/israelite. the roman and other anglo saxon groups are dominant in there appearance cos the color discrimination began to tak on a different face later inn history. not all blacks were seen as inferior by europeans as europes had been infested with black royalty for centuries.

[phattracs]

@thicky Not infested but blessed. The black-a-Moors controlled Gloriously I might add Spain for about 800 years. This Colluded fact is in the books encyclopedias ans others if you care to search it out. At that time Europe had not even started the Renaissance, but was at the end of the dark ages. It was said that one could see Spain from a-far like shinning beacon with it's lit streets and mosaic floors the height of economic trade through out the known then world. This is not spoken....shame!

[SnarkyTM]

@thicky

That's total Hollywood BS --- Spaniards are white, and so are other Southern Europeans. Yes, there are a small number of people within these countries that have some non-European blood, but most countries do have their own Indigenous populations. In fact, if you look at Scandinavia, even the palest, bleach hair people have noticeable slanted eyes. There's the theory that they may be descendants of Siberians --- well that's about as credible as the whole moor-Mediterranean paradigm.

[thicky]

@SnarkyTM yes they r white as a ppl.there r many who dont fit n2 a classical so called 'white race' many pass for light skinned blacks or what we call 'mix race'. this why i say the concept gets confusing. hence we speak of black as a race we need to include the light skin black types that look mix race in so called mid-east another term. and i dont think any of these groups r ready 2 b considred 'black' despite the ancestral mixing. we hv taught wrong on color being a race

[thicky]

@SnarkyTM hence why i dont agree with the concept of race based on colour prejudice by anglo-saxons in 17th century wanting to feel superior. as for scandinav n slanted eyes we have folks in sudan with eyes like that 2. peut-etre mix btwn sberian and some ancient africn group. further, some scandvs have curly hair(frizzy) which many straighten. go figure.

[Deepstarr7020]

@SnarkyTM

"That's total Hollywood BS --- Spaniards are white, and so are other Southern Europeans"

No, it's historical...not Hollywood BS. The Spanish were occupied by Muslim African Moors for 800 years....Spaniards are the least white nation in Europe.

[osiruskat]

@SnarkyTM My friend you are talking about the Scandinavian and parts of Sweden indigenous people called the Saami. They have teepees and hunt reindeer and are very pale with a possible mixed Asian origin. Yup, I am a nerd. :p

[osiruskat]

I love the series Black in Latin America but this info is stuff I've studied for years. The percentage of Black Ancestry in Mexico is actually very low due to intermarriages over time the same with so-called "white" Argentina where their ancestry is around 2-4%.

[DaddyKyan]

@osiruskat What info have you studied that denies what Gates has brought forth? Why do you deny the truth?

[osiruskat]

@DaddyKyan Argentina's for instance first President Bernardino Rivadavia, was a mulatto. But even today. Argentina refuses to accept any African ancestry. Basically all of South America has some African ancestry, but a lot is unnoticeable or low genetically. I absolutely loved Dr. Gates' series but it is only small part of a bigger story. Now if a Mexican from Veracruz self identifies himself as "black", then he is "black". "Black" is a social political term. I'm "black" but my skin isn't.

[DaddyKyan]

@osiruskat The term Black is a political. But it also has been clearly identified with the African social group. The whole point of this series is to show that Africans come in a range of colors. We are one in the same. We need to recognize the real enemy who has been promoting this type of self hatred that has caused my so called Latino brothers to deny their African ancestry. You having skin as Black as mine is not the point. You come from a long line of Africans who mixed with whites.

[osiruskat]

@DaddyKyan True dat however technically, we are ALL Africans as far as a place of origin. I have a very mixed ancestry(not just "white") like a lot of Americans. I think a lot of Latinos recognize their African ancestry but it is only a portion of their identity. The series shows the institution of racism that is still prevalent today in a lot of Latino cultures and the issue of how one "identifies" themselves. What makes someone "black" as opposed to having some African ancestry?

[DaddyKyan]

@osiruskat It is not only color that makes a person African. Look at the unmistakeable African influence on your culture. Your Dance your eating habits. In all these "Latin" countries there was an original indigenous population of Africans that the Spaniards exploited captured and raped. What gets me is why so called Latino's want to relate more to the white side that destroyed them than their original African selves when it may have taken millions and millions of African ancestors to make you.

[osiruskat]

@DaddyKyan Color is a non issue? Are Amazigh Berbers not African? They can be very fair skinned but are genetically ancient African. The African culture is written in /Central/South American DNA whether they see or not. The same can be said of the Indigenous ppls as well. The attachment to the so-called "white" establishment is more of a political decision in society. However, I've seen some positive changes like the Soy AfroArgentino movement and Afro Mestizos who embrace their ancestry.

[DaddyKyan]

@osiruskat When I say color is not the issue i meant the range of colors Africans come from is not just dark skin. Choosing to identify as "Latino" is a political decision. It is a rejection of African heritage and an acceptance of the Spanish conquerors. Latino is not a race. It just means Latin speaking people. Or better yet African Latin speaking people. Many so called Latinos claim to be white for political reasons, so for them any evidence of an African history will bring shame.

[osiruskat]

@DaddyKyan Yeah. It's a shame but funnily enough when I was seeing a Mexican girl years ago, everyone including myself was referred to as "Moreno" or brown. It really depends where you are. I watched this doc about Brazilian teens being forced to identify their ethnicity in order to get gov. grants. There where kids that I clearly would say where "black" by American standards but the kid identified himself as "white". While the lighter kids would do the reverse because it was beneficial.

[DaddyKyan]

@osiruskat I am glad we could talk. In the end we see we are not really holding opposing views. We both seem to agree that it is a shame to deny your heritage. Africans all over the Diaspora all have low self esteem in common. Especially those in Latin countries. This is why scholars like Prof Gates are revising the errors told by the oppressors of our true history. Nice building with you family.

Hotep

[osiruskat]

@DaddyKyan Agreed. Peace and Respect brother.

[skywalker71903]

@DaddyKyan You guys kiss whitey ass, Those white folks hate you and want you out of USA. Most of you people don't even look white. In Spain they don't look that white either. MOORS INVASION. The Moors were Black. You may not want to admit it but tough shit.

[DaddyKyan]

@skywalker71903 How do I kiss whiteys ass? I am a Moor, African, Black or whatever other term you want to call The Original Man. My entire being is dedicated to the liberation of the mind of The People of God all across the Diaspora. And we are native to every piece of land on earth. The white man wants The People of God out of America? We built the greatest nation on earth while in chains. We will reclaim this land as well as the earth in the future. Check birthrates of Europeans.

Hotep

[javie2]

@DaddyKyan You are right! Latin is Not a race. Latin is a Culture that was brought about by different cultures mixing into one and creating the Latin culture. These are Not African Latin speaking people. These are Latin people whose ancestors are African, European, Native, Middle Eastern just like the average person in Latin America. I live in Latin America and your use of the term White is an American idea and it does not apply in Latin America.

[DaddyKyan]

@javie2 You are right as far as Latin being a culture formed by the fusion of different cultures. But what you call as your "culture" was imposed on you from outside European colonial forces. You need to research the history of black people in so called America. We were the natives. Africans brought the science of astronomy and "culture" of civilization to this continent before there was a single white person. Lets face it. Your roots are African. Accept it so we can be a family again.

Hotep

[javie2]

@DaddyKyan As far as the history of humankind goes, the first man came from Africa... In that sense the roots of every human being is in Africa and we are all Africans including Germans and Chinese. Now going back to Latin America, we don't look for Validation from Americans... so we are not seeking to be your family... We are proud of being Latin and our culture is not based on a skin color but in our rich culture formed by people all over the world coming to Latin America.

[DaddyKyan]

@javie2 I am not an American. I live in the country. I am African so the world is mine. My point was everywhere in the world there is an indigenous black population that was there before any white invasions. Knowing you came from Africans, why no love and loyalty to the contributions your original family added to this culture you are so proud about? Your dance, eating habits, art and religion have African roots. I find it funny how so called Latinos can be against their Black heritage. A shame.

[javie2]

@DaddyKyan Now you're not making sense. If you read my prior post you will notice that I acknowledge that humanity came from Africa... With that said, the reason we are proud of our Latin culture only reaffirms that we honor not only our African roots but our European roots, our Asian roots, our Native roots, our Middle Eastern roots... Because we are the product of all of this roots coming together to become what is known today as Latin culture.

[DaddyKyan]

@javie2 No you are not making sense. What middle eastern ancestors are you speaking of? What asian roots? If it serves me correctly neither of those people took part in the colonizing of North and South America. Your Only true root is African. You want to honor the people who destroyed your civilization, raped your women and then gave you Christianity. Now your people are trapped in Catholicism. Why honor your European ancestors? I dont.

[javie2]

@DaddyKyan Your comments only prove your total ignorance about Latin America.

For your information Latin America more than any other place has been the place where people from all over the world immigrated and made their home during the 1800's. Middle Easterns and Asian Descendants live accross Latin America from Argentina to Mexico (Famous Latinos with middle eastern background: Shakira, Carlos Slim, Salma Hayek, Carlos Menem. Latinos with Asian background: Keiko Fujimori, Erasmo Wong)

[osiruskat]

@DaddyKyan By the way, their were some (not many) black conquistadors that were just as evil as the Spanish. Like Juan Garrido and Juan Valiente they profited and had African, as well as, Native slaves. The colonization of the Americas is complicated. Africans/Natives/Europeans (Asians, Middle East came later) ancestry are all intertwined like most Latin countries(expect El Salvador where there weren't "blacks", just victimized Natives). We are all from mixed cultures.

[DaddyKyan]

@osiruskat Blacks are native to all lands. Of course. The only reason Columbus could navigate was because of a Black Moor so you are right about there being some black conquistadors fighting for the spanish. This fact does not cancel out the black origin of so called Latin culture. We were the Olmec. Go talk to the old tribes amongst you. They know the history of the black man. Stop being racist and denying your history. Why are you afraid to accept your true family?

[osiruskat]

@DaddyKyan LOl. The origin "Black" person were not Moors brother. Moors were mixed Arabs, Africans (Berbers, Gnawa, some Touregs, Mali muslim converts). Olmec could have been African but the pottery and genetics don't prove it. The big picture is that origin of man begins in Africa but the skin and hair changed over time and geography but they world wasn't "black" like you and me.(albeit some peoples skin didn't change but their marker haplogroups did).

[DaddyKyan]

@osiruskat Study about the Moors. Please check out the reaserch done by Dr Ivan Van Sertima concerning the color of the Moors. And all the peoples you listed that made up the Moors were black. Also check out "They came before Columbus" by the same scholar for info on the orgin of the Olmec. This research has been done and is not up for debate. Check for yourself.

[osiruskat]

@DaddyKyan OK brother, what country where Moors from? i'm very familiar with this subject Btw.

[DaddyKyan]

@osiruskat Well have you read the scholar I listed? If you did there would be no argument. Why do people disregard African scholarship? Look at the people who came into contact with them. How did they describe them? The master builders came from Egypt to settle in Spain which they ruled for over 500 years. Also check out Taj Tarik Bey for info on the subject.

[osiruskat]

@DaddyKyan Yeah Brah, I read some of Dr. Diop, Dr. Van Sertima and John Clarke's work when I was a kid. Their work is from a different era and was published over 40 years ago. I respect all the work they did because of what they had to go thru with racism in the anthropology world. Anyway, Egypt had nothing to do really with Moors. Moors came from Mauretania (Morocco, Algeria) and parts of Ghana and Mali. Some were Arabs,Afro-Arabs. Berbers, and Sub Saharans. go to my page for comments.

[MrPapi911]

@osiruskat ..some moors did come from egypt. st maurice was one of them

[osiruskat]

@MrPapi911 First of all my brother, St.Maurice was a Christian or Roman Catholic. Secondly he lived in the 3rd century, whereas the Moorish invasions occurred in the 7th century. Even so, just because his name was Maurice or Morris doesn't make him a Moor or even if he was it doesn't mean that Moors came from Egypt which they didn't ...they came from Mauretania (Morocco/Algeria). Go to my channel for further debates.

[VINCYPOWA]

@osiruskat . St. Maurice was an Egyptian from Thebes in Upper Egypt, and Leader (primicerius) of the Theban Legion. He was a MOOR.

St. MOORice.

[osiruskat]

@VINCYPOWA Yes He was from Egypt and a leader in the Roman army and a devout Christian of the 3rd century. He is often depicted in Renaissance statues as a Moor but The Moors in the Muslim sense did not come about until the 7th century. St. Maurice is a Saint in the Roman Catholic church. The term Moor comes from the Mauretania (North African Algeria and Morocco). They were a mix of Arabs, Afro-Arabs, Berbers and Sub Saharans. St. Maurice was NOT Muslim.

[osiruskat]

Yes we agree that a lot of Latinos think it is a shame to have African ancestry but at the same time some embrace their diverse background. You must understand when you are mix, it is hard to pick just one identity for yourself. I have some Native ancestry,Spanish, and Middle Eastern but I know and embrace being "Black" American because of it's My identity. There never was a civil rights movement in other parts of the Americas so they don't have the same view of identity as us or deny it.

[Yanipooh]

@DaddyKyan

I agree ppl need to provide the evidence to substantiate their  claim

[n2mymuzic]

It's amazing how so many Latin Americans deny their African ancestry even when it is obvious in their appearance.

[djelawn]

@n2mymuzic ,Thank you,you took the words out of my mouth!!!It is clearly,that Africans was dropped off in the South America ares,and the Carribean Islands!The latin people need to do their research!The brother in the video is telling the truth about the history.And to the Latinos who think they white,in America,the whites will look at you,and call you a minority,True fact!!!So stop acting like you better then blks,and lets come together!!Music,samething,bong­os,congos,drums,from Africa..Africano!