So, if some thug shoots rockets into your living room, as long as, after they rip your home apart but don't explode it's okay with you? Because I'd like to see you sitting in your living room with a big smile on your face, thanking whoever shot it for their "peaceful message?" Passenger Jets don't have "attached" explosives either dumb ass. For that matter, neither does a baseball bat over your bald head?
WHY DON'T YOU LIARS MAKE THIS SIMPLE AND ADMIT YOU'RE JUST MODERN DAY JEW HATERS?!?!?!?!
The United States and Israel ARE the worlds top terrorist nations - it seems that the citizens of each of these countries are oblivious [ mostly ] to that , and their defense of this is vomitus ! !
@ThePhilosophicalMind There's no need for me to stand in some court to back up my statement - the United States AND Israel would , in ANY world court , be indicted for war crimes upon more war crimes !
@ThePhilosophicalMind No more a "keyboard warrior" than you - philosophically speaking , and as for your insistent question of whether " I WOULD" , is that your way to philosophically side step my comment and not deal with its implications ?
If I were you , I'd be better off doing the research to disprove my statement than to challenge me to back it up , with your silly anal insistence !
Let's see what would happen if Israel took all the "peace" activists seriously. First, Israel would lift the blockade. When Hamas bombards them with rockets, Israel would withdraw from the West Bank. When Hamas continues the bombardment anyways, Israel would agree to dissolve itself into One State. And after that, everyone would live happily ever after as the Palestinians imposed Sharia & clan-based politics and killed Jewish opposition. Maybe that's why Israel ignores the perpetually outraged!
@darrellmellissa Which is essentially the same thing. Anytime coercion or the initiation of force is used (in this case FORCING the flotilla to stop), it is violence.
C'mon saying that the Palestinians fire rockets that dont contain explosives is not an accurate statement. It almost sounds like you're inferring they're shooting fireworks.
@Iseeyoursoul Ron Paul would not stop Israel from defending her interests in any way she saw fit. When Israel attacked a nuclear reactor in Iraq in 1981, almost the entire U.S. Congress voted to condemn the act. Ron Paul was one of the few dissenters: he voted against the condemnation and in favor of Israel’s right to self-determination. I say set Israel free of US control! Wonder what will happen now, with China and Russia telling Israel "you better not act." Messy situation, huh???
If anyone here wishes to gain an accurate understanding of the Israel/Arab conflict, read/google/youtube Noam Chomsky, Tanya Reinhart, or Norman Finkelstein. All are Jewish scholars (Reinhart is Israeli) who are known as the leading scholars on this conflict. Finkelstein in particular.
The arguments between the pro-Palestine and pro-Israel have become so polarised, stereotypical, and vicious, that it's a relief to hear a discussion that doesn't involve people screaming "Anti-semitic Nazi!" or "Jewish pig!". I find it difficult not to feel an affiliation with one side and hostility towards the other.
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They told the Israeli's to go back to Auschwitz over the radio. Maybe they should have just torpedoed the boat like the North Koreans did, since it did not get as much notice.
@prankwatcher Hmm, I wonder how gentle the Palestinians would be on Israelis if they won. In any case google 'Israeli aid to Gaza'. This is stuff that NEVER makes it into newspapers or popular media. Israel has allowed 100s of trucks into Gaza carrying fuel, food, construction supplies & medical supplies. Hospitals in Israel will freely treat any Pali & the only thing that prevents this treatment, is Hamas. Please, don't piss in my face & tell me its raining outside.
@Clichyabarbes22 With all due respect sir, what you're saying amounts to giving a cup of water to the person whose neck is under your boot. The Palestinians peacefully suffered decades of suffering, oppression, and abuse under the Israelis who took their land, bulldozed their homes, etc. The anger and desperation of some Palestinians is of the Israeli government's making, and Hamas has repeatedly said it would accept a 2 state solution.
@JTsmiley14 Clearly its time for a new deal, so perhaps ur wisdom will provide a method of discovering a way to convince Hamas that a constant barrage of missles is not in thr best interest. However everytime Israel gets heavy handed Hamas scores a publicity coup & they know it & as a result they have absolutely no prob in using thr own people as pawns.
Ur statment can easily be turned around - 'The anger & desperation of some Israelis is of Hamas' making.'
@Clichyabarbes22 No, the statement cannot be turned around, because Israel's illegal occupation, mass killing, and annexation of land existed long before Hamas ever existed.
The solution here has nothing to do with Hamas, which has stated numerous times that it would accept a two-state solution. The entire world, including the United Nations, knows that the solution is for Israel to abide by UN Resolution 242, withdraw from the occupied territories, and follow the law. Hamas accepts that.
@JTsmiley14 Well, look, Israel is giving aid to the Palestinians, it may not cover all their needs, but it is still getting in, but if ur an unemployed welfare case who makes more babies than the average Haitian, well I'm sorry ur not going to be living very high on the hog if ull excuse the expression.
Hamas is dedicated to a 2state solution yet they are committed to the destruction of Israel. Hmmm, do u mean the 2state solution of us&me?
The Palestinians are dedicated to the utter destruction of Israel and the video does not deal with this issue. Over 8600 rockets have been launched by the Palestinians, loaded or unloaded (whats the point of launching a dud?). These attacks together with the stated unvieled hatred of Islam towards Israel is surely contribute to Israel's seige mentality . If the claims of the Palestinian refugees r dealt with, will the claims of 1000s of Jews expelled from Arab countries be satisfied.
@Clichyabarbes22 You are measuring rockets (they are not exactly skuds)...lets measure number of deaths by each side. just for the Gaza "war" Israel :13, Pls 1417 of which civilians where 926. Sorry, but the blockade is Warsaw 2.0 and the tactics are genocidal as exemplified by the nazis.
@aristochat3 With 1417 Palestinian deaths, clearly the tactic of launching rockets at Israel is not worth the price especially in terms of lives. If the leaders in the PA had any care or concern for the citiizens in thr charge then they would use all the money they waste on this effort for the good of thr citizens & forgo a losing strategy. I can easily understand Israel's suspicions when fanaticism so easily trumps common sense.
@Clichyabarbes22 It still does not excuse Isralei action. Launching these rockets is an act of desperation, the israeli fire power backed by the Americans has proved by its death count that it can wipe out Hamas any day of the week. Isreal clearly has no respect for anybody's individual rights as it exemplifies by using other peoples identity to comit murder. Hamas might do wrong but Israel is no angel.
@Clichyabarbes22 You have a point. palestininan rockets are useless and counter productive. So are the sling shots and rocks. The palestinians are prisoners in Gaza even as we americans are prisoners of our own ignorance and greed.
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@aristochat3 Stefan referred to people who promote war & hatred as killbots, a newer word for what my parents called warmongers. Gaza's greatest enemy r the killbots in Hamas who carryon thr terror campaign on Israeli whatever the wishes of the average Gazan might want. Israel has allowed & delivered over one million tons of humanitarian supplies to the people of Gaza in the past 18 months, nearly one ton of aid for every man, woman and child in Gaza. It's so easy to demonize Israel.
@Clichyabarbes22 Israel has no right to deny anything to anybody, for the same reason that I have no right to stop you from going to the supermarket. I have no right to control your right to purcahse A4 paper and colouring pens. Aparently Israel thinks it does (yes, colouring pens are banned in Gaza).. As far as I know Hamas are democratically elected, dont convince me, convince the palestitins to vote them out.
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@aristochat3 Like any sovereign state (whether think this state has the right to exist or not) Israel has a right to protect its borders, its people & its property. Gaza techinically is part of the conquered territories & as such, Israel does have authority over it. Palestinians have 2 enemies, Hamas & Israel, whereas Israel has the whole Muslim world. Hamas is not only terrorizing Israel by thr attacks, but thr own citizenry bcuz the attacks r do nothing constructive for either side.
@Clichyabarbes22 that depends if the land was theirs to claim soverignty over. Arabs would argue that Israel is standing on stolen property, "conquered" property and has therefore no rights to it. Perhaps if some part of Germany had been given to the jewish people as restitution, then maybe we would not be in this mess, but hey,zionists decided otherwise. Thus, the classic hate formula, force A to benefit B. means that as long as arabs breathe, they will never relent. + killing aid wrkrs no hlp
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@aristochat3 Are u serious?? A jewish homeland in Germany?? Guffaw. Jews were driven out of Europe & vitually all of the Arab world. Israel is small recompense to the Jewish people who lost lives, livelihoods, & property & went to a region of the ME where they had historical roots & proceeded to make the desert bloom & create a modern, well educated progressive society. A little island floating in a sea of hate. Not buying any argument that states Israel doesn't have a right to protect itself.
@Clichyabarbes22 Again, your history is incorrect. The idea that Israel took pristine land and turned it into a paradise is a fiction that has been torn apart time and again by serious scholars. 700,000 Palestinians were driven from their homes when Israel arrived on the scene, and they took land that the Palestinians had built a civilizations upon. At this point though, it's only academic; we should focus on a peaceful two-state or one-state solution.
@JTsmiley14 Ah you mean the 350,000 Palestinians who fled their homes when the Arab Liberation Army declared war on Israel. And when Israel arrived on the scene? Israel didn't arrive. It was declared a state. The people had already been there for a long long time. There was never a country of Palestine. There would have been on, but the Palestinians rejected a 2 state option and declared war.
@jonnyclueless "His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in PALESTINE of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavors to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in PALESTINE, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country." Balfour declaration 1917
@jonnyclueless I'll start listening when you acknowledge that Israel is in violation of UN 242. You don't get to "cherry pick" which facts you respond to.
@Clichyabarbes22 Well, a lot of people lost their lives and yada yada under Stalin and Mao and nobody is giving them an island. Again forcing A to benefit B is the hate formula. If you want to live in a neighbourhood where everybody wants you dead, so be it. An island in post war Europe may have been a comparitavely peaceful place sorrounded by like minded progressive geographic mafias and you would not have to travel so far to compete in the Eurovision song contest! lol
@Clichyabarbes22 On the right of Israel to protect itself, like any other geographic mafia, it must use whatever means at its disposal to legitimize itself and its actions in order to keep harvesting revenues for its political elites.
@Clichyabarbes22 Israel has NO LEGAL AUTHORITY OVER GAZA. Israel is illegally occupying Gaza and the West Bank. As such, Israel has no rights, only responsibilities. Israel has the right to "defend itself" as much as Nazi Germany had a right to defend itself from the French it was occupying. This is not hyperbole, but merely the application of the law.
If you are really interested in the history of this conflict, please read Israel/Palestine by Tanya Reinhart, an Israeli Jewish scholar.
@Clichyabarbes22 If Israel has been so kind to the Gazans then why has the Red Cross, Human Rights Watch, the UN Relief Workers Agency, Amnesty International, and other peace groups all condemned Israel's blockade and occupation? They are on the ground working for peace.
I cannot make you read history, but the fact of the matter is that Israel has been occupying and killing Palestinians for decades, driving them from their homes, bulldozing them, all in the name of Israel. The aid is just PR
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@aristochat3 The Turkish flotilla was largely loaded with crap. Expired medicines, obsolete medical equipment, well used clothing & the loading was done poorly so cargo was damaged. Israel will give medical care to anyone from Gaza who needs it. The only thing that prevents the people of Gaza from receiving this care is Hamas. Their political agenda is MORE important than the people of Gaza.
@Clichyabarbes22 Well lets wait for the independent investigation that Israel is currently blocking before we make statements as to what was in or not. Importing expired medicines in the middle east is nothing new, just because they are expired or just because the equipment is obsolete does not mean that they are not usable. The political agenda of Israel is also more important than the people of Gaza
@aristochat3 Ever live beside a crappy neighbour, they leave thr garbage all over ur lawn, don't take care of thr property & allow thr half dozen kids run wild all over including ur place. Thankfully I haven't. Gaza is Israel's crappy neighbour. The Arab worlds biggest welfare case, constantly making trouble for themselves, thr neighbours & the rest of the world. Actually I'm surprised at Israel's restraint.
@Clichyabarbes22 When all else fails, there is always the ad hominem. I am sure that the germans made exactly the same comment about the Warsaw ghetto. Turn off the water and then state that they smell and dont know how to wash themselves. It is all too familiar. Actually I'm surprised that Israel could not be more original.
@aristochat3 and surprise surprise, the israelis have managed to sideline an independent UN investigation, which will no doubt legitimize piracy at sea by a state. With the US as its backer, Israel is a moral hazard on active duty. Lets wait and see how the issue escalates when the Iranian flotilla arrives.
@Clichyabarbes22 Your first comment is racist bigotry and nothing more. A statement with much more evidence to support it would be that the Israeli government (and far right nationalists) are devoted to the destruction of Palestine, since they are the ones illegally occupying the land and starving the population. The rocket attacks and other violence came AFTER decades of peaceful resistance to brutal humiliation. History is important in this conflict.
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@JTsmiley14 No the rocket attacks started in abundance when the Israelis managed to thwart the threat of suicide bombers. Oh poor Palestinians who had no thought about going into a market, or on a bus, or to a café & destroying everyone & everything within appropriate range of the blast.
my channel has two videos that were smuggled and leaked to media. In my favorites, should be pretty recent, shows pretty clearly what happened. Also on "stimulator" 's channel.
"they support isreal for these end times prophecy reasons" Thank you! Thank you for pointing that out! Thats why I think this issue as a whole is so stupid! What is wrong with the world?!!
Well to say they attacked the ship is incorrect. They boarded the ship to stop it and inspect it. You may still want to call that illegal, but calling it an attack is propaganda. And claiming it is an act of war is also incorrect since the instance occurred between two groups who are already AT war. Hamas has officially declared Israel an enemy.
ignored are the ships Israel has stopped where they have found weapons. Israel also sends in 10,000 tons of aid per week. Israel still lets the aid in
But the shipment was going to Hamas. Israel doesn't just stop ships because they are Turkish. They stop ships going to Hamas. And they do so because they have many times found missiles and weapons on ships to Gaza coming from places like Iran and Syria. Ships heading to a group that has declared war on them and used shipments to carry out attacks. Not to imply it's all black and white of course.
@jonnyclueless To imply that they simply "boarded the ship to inspect it" is propaganda itself. They RAPPELLED DOWN as part of a special forces raid. If they were simply boarding they would've come over on a BOAT.
No, repelling down is pretty standard. They have no way of knowing if they will encounter hostile forces or not. It's pretty standard procedure when you're boarding a ship headed to someone who has declared you an enemy and who's charter declares removing your country. They did this on all boats. Only 1 of 6 was there a problem. The ship full of weapons and combat trained "activists".
@jonnyclueless Is that a joke? Virtually everything you've said has been in contradiction with all the major news reports. Do you have any idea of how an argument works, or do you just get huffy and then make unsubstantiated claims? The law is clear, the history is clear. You want to challenge that Israel is illegally occupying Palestine and illegally attacked a ship? Show me some evidence.
No actually it doesn't. Look at the footage and look at the news reports. And now show us that law you referred to. You said it's clear, so please show us. Israel is not illegally occupying Palestine. Do you even know what happened in the 7 day war? And again do you know what an attack is? Show you some evidence of what? You keep making these claims and asking me for evidence. Be specific and read slowly.
@jonnyclueless United Nations Treaty: Convention on the High Seas 1958
Article 22
1. Except where acts of interference derive from powers conferred by treaty, a warship which encounters a foreign merchant ship on the high seas is not justified in boarding her unless there is reasonable ground for suspecting: a That the ship is engaged in piracy; or b That the ship is engaged in the slave trade; or c That though flying a foreign flag ... the ship is of the same nationality as the warship.
Warships on the high seas have complete immunity from the jurisdiction of any State other than the flag State.
In your article 22:
Except where acts of interference derive from powers conferred by treaty.
Article 23
The hot pursuit of a foreign ship may be undertaken when the competent authorities of the coastal State have good reason to believe that the ship has violated the laws and regulations of that State.
@jonnyclueless Article 8 - The UN is not a State. Article 22 - What treaty? Article 23 - It was not "hot pursuit" but it was boarded. Furthermore, from Article 23: Such pursuit must be
commenced when the foreign ship or one of its boats is WITHIN the internal waters or the territorial sea or the contiguous zone of the pursuing State, and may only be continued outside the territorial sea or the contiguous zone if the pursuit has not been interrupted.
Hamas engaged in warfare with Israel and it's charter calls for the destruction of Israel, This makes the blockade legal. A blockade against a wring country is legal. Again, just like the US did with Russia during the cold war. You see as stated at the top of the treaty, "Desiring to codify the rules of international law relating to the high seas"
You ignore the international law part. You ignore that the UN has enforced blockades like Operation Sharp Guard on Yugoslavia.
@jonnyclueless The blockade and the boarding of the flotilla are two separate laws, not to mention that your point about war is completely at odds with history since Israel's illegal occupation was an act of war long before Hamas even existed, but it's clear to me that you have no interest in the truth and are continuously back pedaling as you realize I've got answers to all of your questions. I can't make you want to know the truth, you have to seek it out for yourself.
@JTsmiley14 No they aren't 2 separate issues. Boarding a ship is part of a blockade. The blockade isn't about stopping ships, it's about stopping arms. The shipments have to be inspected for arms before they can be delivered. Israel delivered the aid to Gaza. Israel is also NOT occupying Gaza so please stop lying. Don't tell me I have no interest in the truth because I demonstrate your claims to be false. Show us what land in Gaza Israel occupies. Or admit to lying.
@jonnyclueless Excuse me, Israel is not "occupying" Gaza. It is controlling Gaza in ever way, stealing its water, restricting everything that goes in and out of it, and is unquestionably collectively punishing the population while it occupies and expands in the West Bank.
Now that that's clarified, please illustrate what your point was with that beyond hairsplitting, since you know my overall point?
@JTsmiley14 Oh so now it's "stealing". Of course it controls what goes in and out of an area that has officially declared war on it, has the destruction of Israel on it's charter, and has a history of launching attacks on Israel. Egypt controls the Gaza check point on its border for the same reasons. You don't seem to have a problem when non-jews do it though do you? You don't have a problem when Hamas stops aid from coming in do you? Yes Israel sends in 10,000 tons of aid a week.
@jonnyclueless I'm not going to argue history with you and I am tired of watching you jump ship from "attack" to "Treaty" to debating "occupation." You're an idealogue and if you were interested in the truth you would've acknowledged where I was correct as I acknowledged your semantic point about occupation. But alas, it all comes back to Hamas, as if Hamas existed in 1948.
@jonnyclueless Read UN Resolution 242 for occupation law. You can also look up the World Court's ruling on the same topic. I can't post the links here due to youtube's regulations.
What you ignore is that Hamas has violated that treaty. See you don't care about the actual events, you just care about criticizing Jews. You don't mind the Hamas, PLO, etc violating the treaty to kill Jews, you only mind when the Jews defend themselves.
@jonnyclueless I appreciate that you're moving on to saying I hate Jews. That's always the last line of defense.
I'm not playing your game of making this about Hamas. The law is clear. (What treaty did they violate, by the way? I just don't know what you're referring to here)
@JTsmiley14 As opposed to your constant childish claims of me lying and not knowing what I am talking about. And I didn't say you hate Jews. You just have no problem with the actions of any of the parties that are NOT Jews.
The Law IS clear. Now you need to learn it. Blockades are legal during armed conflicts. This is part of international law, which the treaty you tried to quote from has to support.
@jonnyclueless As I've stated, I have serious problems with the rocket attacks and suicide bombings, but we agree that that's wrong. My thesis is that the decades of immoral and illegal oppression against the Palestinians, which was exacerbated by peaceful protests, has driven people--very understandably--to desperate and violent tactics. Hit someone long enough and they'll hit back in any way they can. With Israel's military power, they went for civilians, and that helps Israel expand further.
@JTsmiley14 You do realize that what started this conflict was when Egypt, Syria, and Jordan attacked Israel right? And you are claiming the Palestinians use peaceful protests?? WTF?? When Israel was made a state, Palestine had the same offer. The Palestinians rejected the offer and declared war on Israel. You really need to learn your history. This whole conflict would be over if Palestinians would stop attacking Israel.
@jonnyclueless Well if we want to be serious, the conflict started when Jews from all over the world made 700,000 Arabs leave their homes just as the Native Americans were forced to leave their own. Since you continue to ignore my rebuttals I won't spoonfeed you anymore facts. Watch the debate between Noam Chomsky and Alan Dershowitz on youtube and ask yourself if you want to support starving children and blowing up hospitals in order to secure Zion.
@JTsmiley14 Check out London Declaration concerning the Laws of Naval War from 1909 and the San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea. The General Assembly to the Human Rights Council acknowledges the blockade as a legal military tactic. Check out Article 42 of the UN Charter. Check out the Gaza–Jericho Agreement.
@jonnyclueless OK now you're just ignoring the issue at hand. Our dispute was never about the blockade itself. Like I said, I could argue it, but I don't think it's relevant.
@jonnyclueless My clarification further reinforces my point that Israel is the aggressor and your insistence on pushing this semantic point reinforces that you're in this for dishonest reasons.
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@JTsmiley14 My Dishonest reasons? Israel is the aggressor because the Palestinain people declared war on them and launched an attack on them when they declared themselves a state and Palestine rejected statesmanship? Israel is the aggreessor because Hamas, calls for the destruction of Israel on their charter? Israel is the aggressor because Hamas continually launches missile attacks on Israel. Israel is the aggressor in trying to stop arms shipments which are common. You're just SO honest.
@jonnyclueless Now, as I clearly said in my last post, show me your evidence that Israel is NOT illegally occupying Gaza and the West Bank, and the evidence that boarding an aid flotilla in international waters is NOT also a crime.
I just did. You see, I don't cherry pick the information like you do. I use the same sources but ALL of that source. You just take a few lines that fit what you want and dismiss the rest.
Now please tell us more about your arguments against Hamas launching rockets into Israel and using suicide bombers. How about how Palestinian forces have killed more Palestinians that Israel has? You don't seem to raise issue with that do you?
@jonnyclueless No one is arguing for the rocket attacks or suicide bombings. What we're arguing is that Palestinian violence, just like the violence from the IRA or other militant groups, happens for a reason, and looking into that reason rather than labeling people "fanatics" will bring about peace.
In this case, a look at the history of Israelis killing peacefully protesting civilians (look up Rachel Corrie) and bulldozing homes. Was that to prevent rockets too?
@jonnyclueless According to the UN, international law, and all the peace groups working in the region, it's illegal. I don't know what law you're looking at.
Israel coercively boarded a ship in international waters with armed commandos who killed numerous passengers. That is an attack. Furthermore, since Hamas had NO association with the ship (even the IDF made no such claim), then your argument is propaganda.
Admit it: you don't know what you're talking about.
Which law? Show us the law you are referring to. Are you saying that it was illegal for the US to blockage the Russians in international waters during the Cuban Missile Crisis too? 2 groups are at war. There is nothing illegal about this at all. And the commandos did not attack, they fought back when they were attacked. Hamas is the GOVERNMENT that the shipment was being delivered to and you claim they have no involvement? You need to start reading.
This is all bullshit. Israel did what it had to do. Listen we are gonna blockade this region so that you can't keep firing rockets into our country. We will still give you humanitarian aid but it has to come through us so that we know whats in it. If you run the blockade, we'll confiscate your ship, you're lucky we didn't sink you.
If you don't like us scanning for weapons with a blockade, the alternative is that we nuke the shit out of you and THEN see how many rockets you fire.
Uri Avnery has published a list of the names of the folks that Israel accused of Terrorism, at the Israel Occupation Archive, questioning whether they were terrorists. There's also a great article there by Stephen Zunes, who gives details about the boarding, and then our Democrats in Congress praising it fulsomely.
Even if there were terrorists on the Mavi Marmara, would that justify endangering the lives of the other passengers by attacking the ship, rather than just stopping it?
I see you are using a different mic here. If you are having problems with echo/reverb, I would suggest throwing down a rug or even towels to absorb the sound. Tape up some egg cartons to the side walls if the rugs are not enough.
Stef, America is huge and consists of 2 continent. The USA is what you mean to say. Not all of America is part of the USA. I say this because we are so egocentric to think when we say America people just know we are talking about the USA as apposed to Canada, Mexico, Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile... I admire your thought processes and encourage you to be accurate when professing and analyzing. It gives you credibility and helps to educated egocentric US citizens.
As an international lawyer I am very surprised by this guys (also a student of international law) interpretation of Israels policy on blockades by calling it a terrorist act when international law has absolutely zero agreement on the term 'terrorism'.
another great podcast stefean and i don't want to be mean but your dress looks like you threw it over one minute before the interview to appear more credible. you should have just word the t-shirt. that would have shown that you were in a hurry for the video but that would have been okay because it's about a recent event. it would have appeared more natural.
What a load of weak waffel. The Zionist Rothschild and his cohorts have systematically infiltrated governments in the UK and US, They own banks,corporations and media, Israel is their assassin state, when they want something done like 9/11 or 7/7 up pops Mossad, that is why both governments support Israel and fund them.
I don't think anyone can get the Israelis or the Palestinians to get along. The Palestinians have been treated like subhuman waste for too long and the Israelis have been attacked by a people filled with a religious hatred. The best case scenario is to let this play out unfortunately. Support Israel and you support a Nazi style regime of extreme oppression. Support Gaza and you support a sharia law and extreme oppression.
@TurboInsomniac You have good points. I do maintain that generally people can get along if there aren't state sanctions to interfere with cohesion or deficient resources.
@TurboInsomniac Could you provide some evidence to the "sharia law and extreme oppression" inherent to Gazans? Because many peace activists go there from all over the world and they don't talk about some horrible religious repression.
you both totally missed the main case of this conflict. it's not hamas, it's not islamic fundamentalism...it is the Islam itself. Islam is not a religion, like hindoism...but it's a totalitairian indoctrine to kill everybody that does not submit.
Israel is getting aid's and food into Gaza...but what about the hunger in darfur? is the islamic government feeding them?
Islam was not that much of a problem until the US started funding certain groups and bombing Muslim villages giving these very groups an excuse to get more violent and recruit affected males. This in itself was an excuse for US/Israel to justify their invasions.
You want to wipe them off, you can't, violence has not worked, you can only support the moderates and wait for Islam to dissolve. All religions will dissolve in the future as humanity evolves into a more rational species
too true, the problem is that even MODERATE muslims do not speak out against extremist fanatics sending death threats
The problem is their BOOK actually is very clear when it comes to non-believers
the Hadith law which is even MORE clear in its rules. It is so apparent that all religions are man made
I agree with your statement of religions dissolving but it won't happen unless people at large view people who BELIEVE things without merit just like holocaust deniers.
Violence will NOT solve it, i advocate widespread education, and real debates and discussions.
I just feel that the moderate muslim community should do more to discredit the fanatics.
And with regard to the Christian and Jewish texts being more brutal, I am assuming you are speaking about the Old Testament. Unlike the Quran many many many if not most all Christians / Jews view that in a very different light (symbolism teaching, old people trying to understand their world)
But the Quran, even by moderates, most always is viewed as completely the word of god and that it is literal. The laws, history of Muhammad, and what followed, are all seen in the Quran as recorded and written down by the Prophet.
I am not trying to argue with you, I agree with much of what you said, and even learned a thing or 2.
Thank you for being civil, and I hope to hear back.
I'm not arguing either, I just do not want people to scapegoat Muslims and try to explain that the mess with the Middle East is a manufactured problem.
Their worldwide exposure is a recent phenomenon, before 911 Islam was in the shadows so to speak, the demonization campaign started and now they are the scum of the earth for a lot of people.
BTW, most Muslims claim Muhammad could not write or read, kinda like to make their prophet story more extraordinary and miraculous.
I, and even some Muslims, doubt a wealthy and successful man like Muhammad did not know how to write.
The Quran mentions something that some translate as the "illiterate prophet" and others as the "gentile prophet(gentile = without a revelation/book/read)". Oldskool Arabic, you know, open to many translations.
to not offend those who cite faith as a reason for something, and it's left at that.
If someone was arguing with you about something and all of a sudden a certain sector is "off limits" simply because they hold their view based on faith, wouldn't that bother you?
Holding a view without sufficient or even ANY evidence or real thought in any topic other than religion/faith can lead a person to be perceived as a "loon." (again like holocaust deniers)
are actually competant and articulate should be the first to denounce the blind followers, no matter their faith.
I just believe (no pun intended) that Islam (specifically the Quran) is much more easily used to justify fanatic intentions.
My main grievance is with Theocracies. They are in my view the most immenient and extreme danger to the world stage as a whole, and must be debated against intellectually, not violently.
I can't believe it! Is the world-famous anarchist actually saying something's "illegal?" Wow. I mean, wow. How can anything be "illegal?" Wouldn't punishing isreal be infringing on their rights to do whatever the hell they want whenever the hell they want? I mean, what the fuck? What's the point of living without rules if you actually have to follow rules? Who makes the dumb rules if it's all anarchy? It's just fucking retarded stupid oxymoronic. "Anarchist Laws." Oxymoronic.
Anarchy is not "do whatever the hell they want whenever the hell they want", that is a definition that leads to tyranny. You don't see that attacking a convoy of supply ships and killing people is not only an act of extreme cowardice (no surprise from Israel) but is also an ultimate act of tyranny? That's not anarchy, that's what governments do. Anarchy means no coercive government, not "do whatever the hell you want no matter what".
@LeksServices I like this! I was really surprised that he took this angle on the situation. And they're blockading Hammas!! When America stops terrorists from getting material for missiles, we're heros, but the script is flipped for Israel?
@rx7guy82 problem is the 1.5 million people being punished in order to stop Hamas getting weapons. Is this justified? I mean, collective punishment is a breach of Article 22 of the Fourth Geneva Convention. What's the point of international agreements of the importance of Geneva, when they can be dismissed so callously by a state?
@BlankVellum Forget it. Today Gcon is a meaningless paper tiger, it all went to the wall with Gitmo, extraordinary rendition etc. Now its open session and the gloves are off. The important thing nowis to be on the side of the group with most fire power
@LeksServices Would it be fair do you think for me to criticise your like of chocolate by discussing the idiocy of drinking poison? Or do you think perhaps the concept that you like (actual chocolate) is more important than me incorrectly defining it? Obviously, your definition of Anarchism is irrelevant and only the concept (Rules, but no Rulers) that Stef recognises the moral legitemacy of is important. Doing whatever the hell you want has nothing to do with the concept Anarchism.
@DreadLaw2 Who defines "moral" then? If you don't want it to be Christians, or any other religion for that matter. And you don't like LeksServices' definition, who then?
@rx7guy82 Who defines the laws of physics? Your question is flawed, Morality is empircal and objective. However, if we take for a moment the idea that it isn't, I still don't comprehend your response. Are you saying that if I can't come up with someone who can define morality, that automatically, and with no evidence makes government decree morality? Were Nazi laws moral purely because of our ignorance of ethics? That seems unlikely, perhaps we should apply standards consistently.
@DreadLaw2 Nature defines the laws of Physics, society defines moral. Sometimes its ok to be nudists, or head-hunters, it's just based on the chance of when and where you were born.
Stef this is brillant stuff your putting out on youtube, dont let the critics (who have their views shaped by western media) knock you. Please keep the vids coming. Great channel, great work.
All in the name of god... If it were the will of your god then why does you god not smite your enemy? Why are you sending your children to die? Why the need for guns and bombs? Just prey them away...
@redbuttonstudios I'm talking about the socialist liberals in America who think Israel is the devil and the Palis are innocent.... The filthy terrorist Palis shoot rockets in to Israel evryday and you liberals say nothing, Israel defends itself and you liberal traitors blow a gasket... hypocrites
@politicalratfinder Because Palestinian rockets into Israel have killed maybe a few people at most? The Isreali blockade and invasion of Palestine has killed thousands. The response is vastly disproportionate.
@mrdowns The attacks on 9-11-01 killed 2,995 people from 90 different countries, they weren't even all American. Now thanks to 19 people from Saudi Arabia, over 100,000 people have been killed/murdered in Afghanistan and Iraq, its seems kinda lopsided. But if its in our favor, its alright? We have to look at the bigger picture.
@politicalratfinder Hey buddy. I think you just might want look into the kind of audience you're calling liberals. Just saying. Most people that post under Stef's videos are varying degrees of anarcho-capitalists, minarchist libertarians, & possible converts who are diggin for truth and the means of getting to that truth. Just maybe this might have been your first FDR video and you didn't catch that.
@politicalratfinder I feel as though you may have lashed out prematurely. What led you to believe that this was a socialist/liberal video? Your premise seems to be that the initiation of force is immoral and that self-defense is justified. I could not agree more, Why did you presume a fundamental disagreement?
Something tells me "terrorists formed in Palestine" is a red herring, and that the governments of Israel and the United States are the largest and best-funded terrorist organizations on the planet.
@ubernerd35 first of all its not the Israelis who are starving the children its Hamas and the people who launch rockets in to Israel.... All of this could go away if the Palis would stop terrorising Israel.... The Palis have brought in weapons and rockets via the sea route... Israel has every right to do what it needs to do to protect itself and if that is a sea blockade then so be it, its the Palis job to stop all of this.
@politicalratfinder There has always been hate on both sides, but things escalated after ISrael continued to build more settlements and create check points. Neither side has a legal/moral leg to stand on, but Israel has been the bully, thanks to US military and weapon support, not to mention trillions in funding.
Stupid religions also play a focal point, but they always do.
@GtheMVP Who is occupying who? Who is violating international law? Who is suffering starvation in the world's largest prison? The Palestinians have every moral leg to stand on, with the exception of rocket attacks that are the result of the Israeli government's decades of repression and genocide. The solution to peace is to follow international law (UN resolution 242) and leave the West Bank and Gaza.
@politicalratfinder It is absolutely the Israelis who are starving the children, because they have the blockade. The rocket attacks are the RESULT of Israel's decades of illegal occupation and repression. If you had your land taken from you and your house bulldozed, and soldiers killed your friends during a peaceful protest, you'd think you had every right to defend YOURSELF. Israeli PM, Ben Gurion: "Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves ... politically we are the aggressors..."
@JTsmiley14 The Israleis are defending themselves... the people at fault for the whole thing are Hamas and the Pali terrorists.... when Hamas launches rockets in to Israel you say nothing... this could end if the Palis would just live with Israel.... The Hamas charter clearly reads it will destroy Israel, Hamas does not want a two state option, but Israel wants the two state option.... you need to realize who the problem is here, and its not Israel.... Israel is only defending itself...
@politicalratfinder This is not accurate. Hamas has repeatedly stated it would agree to a two-state solution. The rockets are the result, not the cause, of Israel's occupation and oppression. The proof is the uncontested fact that Israel was occupying and humiliating Palestinians long before rocket attacks happened, because they are trying to take over all the Palestinian lands, which is why they force them to leave their homes and bulldoze them. If you want the truth, investigate my claims.
So, if some thug shoots rockets into your living room, as long as, after they rip your home apart but don't explode it's okay with you? Because I'd like to see you sitting in your living room with a big smile on your face, thanking whoever shot it for their "peaceful message?" Passenger Jets don't have "attached" explosives either dumb ass. For that matter, neither does a baseball bat over your bald head?
WHY DON'T YOU LIARS MAKE THIS SIMPLE AND ADMIT YOU'RE JUST MODERN DAY JEW HATERS?!?!?!?!
YOURpervertexposer 1 year ago
@YOURpervertexposer Just terrorist haters which includes israel.
majikspell1 1 year ago
@majikspell1 Yes, terrorist haters include Israel - they have fought it for years.
CaledoniaProductions 1 year ago
False News....When Americans, Canadians and Europeans suffer from terror ever day these this hypocrisy will be made clear.
catman7262 1 year ago
there's no point investing in a microphone if you're going to use it in a place that echoes.
tugger 1 year ago
No state solution for all! :D
Gettinghitonattheban 1 year ago 2
The United States and Israel ARE the worlds top terrorist nations - it seems that the citizens of each of these countries are oblivious [ mostly ] to that , and their defense of this is vomitus ! !
rolynstone48 1 year ago 4
@rolynstone48 Thats a fairly bold statement about the United states .
Would you be willing to stand up in court with such statements and back them up to the core ?
ThePhilosophicalMind 1 year ago
@ThePhilosophicalMind There's no need for me to stand in some court to back up my statement - the United States AND Israel would , in ANY world court , be indicted for war crimes upon more war crimes !
rolynstone48 1 year ago
@rolynstone48 Not asking if theres any need , im asking if you WOULD ? or are you simply another keyboard warrior ?
ThePhilosophicalMind 1 year ago
@ThePhilosophicalMind No more a "keyboard warrior" than you - philosophically speaking , and as for your insistent question of whether " I WOULD" , is that your way to philosophically side step my comment and not deal with its implications ?
If I were you , I'd be better off doing the research to disprove my statement than to challenge me to back it up , with your silly anal insistence !
rolynstone48 1 year ago
"Achieve the opposite of it's intended effect"
No Stef the opposite of it's OSTENSIBLE intended effect. There's a difference. Sorry to nitpick but sometimes precision in phrasing is important.
newperve 1 year ago
07:33 Opps :D. Don't tell the public to mush Ivan!
goto666goto666 1 year ago
Let's see what would happen if Israel took all the "peace" activists seriously. First, Israel would lift the blockade. When Hamas bombards them with rockets, Israel would withdraw from the West Bank. When Hamas continues the bombardment anyways, Israel would agree to dissolve itself into One State. And after that, everyone would live happily ever after as the Palestinians imposed Sharia & clan-based politics and killed Jewish opposition. Maybe that's why Israel ignores the perpetually outraged!
HiddenAuthor 1 year ago
They were not attacking, they were bording for inspecton.
darrellmellissa 1 year ago
@darrellmellissa Which is essentially the same thing. Anytime coercion or the initiation of force is used (in this case FORCING the flotilla to stop), it is violence.
karategirl96 1 year ago
C'mon saying that the Palestinians fire rockets that dont contain explosives is not an accurate statement. It almost sounds like you're inferring they're shooting fireworks.
rbairos1 1 year ago
Gaza people live like salves in a prison surrounded by Israeli Army.
1. Obama and Michelle Obama do not give food to the salves in Gaza by supporting Block Aid by Israel
2. Gaza people do not have access to food , medicine because of Obama do not broke the block Aid by Israeli Army.
3. Israeli Army staring Ethnic cleaning in Gaza by not allowing enough food, medicine, material to build Home.
4. World must free all the people live like slave in Gaza prison surrounded by Israeli Army.
THEFALSETREATMENT 1 year ago 7
Any nation that is "allied" with isreal is supporting terrorism.
LOL the US war on terror yet they call Isreal their biggest ally. Wow that seems like the biggest contradiction.
Iseeyoursoul 1 year ago 32
@Iseeyoursoul Ron Paul would not stop Israel from defending her interests in any way she saw fit. When Israel attacked a nuclear reactor in Iraq in 1981, almost the entire U.S. Congress voted to condemn the act. Ron Paul was one of the few dissenters: he voted against the condemnation and in favor of Israel’s right to self-determination. I say set Israel free of US control! Wonder what will happen now, with China and Russia telling Israel "you better not act." Messy situation, huh???
vechorik 2 months ago
keep up the good work buddy
killumunati 1 year ago
If anyone here wishes to gain an accurate understanding of the Israel/Arab conflict, read/google/youtube Noam Chomsky, Tanya Reinhart, or Norman Finkelstein. All are Jewish scholars (Reinhart is Israeli) who are known as the leading scholars on this conflict. Finkelstein in particular.
JTsmiley14 1 year ago 7
The arguments between the pro-Palestine and pro-Israel have become so polarised, stereotypical, and vicious, that it's a relief to hear a discussion that doesn't involve people screaming "Anti-semitic Nazi!" or "Jewish pig!". I find it difficult not to feel an affiliation with one side and hostility towards the other.
Valelacerte 1 year ago
But the people on TV tell us that if we don't support Israel we are anti-semetic. The people on TV wouldn't lie to us would they?
qkholster 1 year ago 5
@umhalil All words are "made up" Religion is the greatest distortion of reality.
DCLugi 1 year ago 3
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They told the Israeli's to go back to Auschwitz over the radio. Maybe they should have just torpedoed the boat like the North Koreans did, since it did not get as much notice.
giovanhagar 1 year ago
@giovanhagar The Israeli government admitted that that radio transmission was fabricated. You can watch the report on the Democracy Now! website.
JTsmiley14 1 year ago 26
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giovanhagar 1 year ago
Excellent video
thinkrevolution 1 year ago
@prankwatcher Hmm, I wonder how gentle the Palestinians would be on Israelis if they won. In any case google 'Israeli aid to Gaza'. This is stuff that NEVER makes it into newspapers or popular media. Israel has allowed 100s of trucks into Gaza carrying fuel, food, construction supplies & medical supplies. Hospitals in Israel will freely treat any Pali & the only thing that prevents this treatment, is Hamas. Please, don't piss in my face & tell me its raining outside.
Clichyabarbes22 1 year ago
@Clichyabarbes22 With all due respect sir, what you're saying amounts to giving a cup of water to the person whose neck is under your boot. The Palestinians peacefully suffered decades of suffering, oppression, and abuse under the Israelis who took their land, bulldozed their homes, etc. The anger and desperation of some Palestinians is of the Israeli government's making, and Hamas has repeatedly said it would accept a 2 state solution.
JTsmiley14 1 year ago
@JTsmiley14 Clearly its time for a new deal, so perhaps ur wisdom will provide a method of discovering a way to convince Hamas that a constant barrage of missles is not in thr best interest. However everytime Israel gets heavy handed Hamas scores a publicity coup & they know it & as a result they have absolutely no prob in using thr own people as pawns.
Ur statment can easily be turned around - 'The anger & desperation of some Israelis is of Hamas' making.'
Clichyabarbes22 1 year ago
@Clichyabarbes22 No, the statement cannot be turned around, because Israel's illegal occupation, mass killing, and annexation of land existed long before Hamas ever existed.
The solution here has nothing to do with Hamas, which has stated numerous times that it would accept a two-state solution. The entire world, including the United Nations, knows that the solution is for Israel to abide by UN Resolution 242, withdraw from the occupied territories, and follow the law. Hamas accepts that.
JTsmiley14 1 year ago
@JTsmiley14 Well, look, Israel is giving aid to the Palestinians, it may not cover all their needs, but it is still getting in, but if ur an unemployed welfare case who makes more babies than the average Haitian, well I'm sorry ur not going to be living very high on the hog if ull excuse the expression.
Hamas is dedicated to a 2state solution yet they are committed to the destruction of Israel. Hmmm, do u mean the 2state solution of us&me?
Clichyabarbes22 1 year ago
Nice suit, Molyneux
janporra 1 year ago
Sounds like the USA attacking possible drug ships in international waters
trashcanman1000 1 year ago
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The Palestinians are dedicated to the utter destruction of Israel and the video does not deal with this issue. Over 8600 rockets have been launched by the Palestinians, loaded or unloaded (whats the point of launching a dud?). These attacks together with the stated unvieled hatred of Islam towards Israel is surely contribute to Israel's seige mentality . If the claims of the Palestinian refugees r dealt with, will the claims of 1000s of Jews expelled from Arab countries be satisfied.
Clichyabarbes22 1 year ago
@Clichyabarbes22 You are measuring rockets (they are not exactly skuds)...lets measure number of deaths by each side. just for the Gaza "war" Israel :13, Pls 1417 of which civilians where 926. Sorry, but the blockade is Warsaw 2.0 and the tactics are genocidal as exemplified by the nazis.
aristochat3 1 year ago 3
@aristochat3 With 1417 Palestinian deaths, clearly the tactic of launching rockets at Israel is not worth the price especially in terms of lives. If the leaders in the PA had any care or concern for the citiizens in thr charge then they would use all the money they waste on this effort for the good of thr citizens & forgo a losing strategy. I can easily understand Israel's suspicions when fanaticism so easily trumps common sense.
Clichyabarbes22 1 year ago
@Clichyabarbes22 It still does not excuse Isralei action. Launching these rockets is an act of desperation, the israeli fire power backed by the Americans has proved by its death count that it can wipe out Hamas any day of the week. Isreal clearly has no respect for anybody's individual rights as it exemplifies by using other peoples identity to comit murder. Hamas might do wrong but Israel is no angel.
aristochat3 1 year ago 2
@Clichyabarbes22 You have a point. palestininan rockets are useless and counter productive. So are the sling shots and rocks. The palestinians are prisoners in Gaza even as we americans are prisoners of our own ignorance and greed.
1mealperday 1 year ago
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@aristochat3 Stefan referred to people who promote war & hatred as killbots, a newer word for what my parents called warmongers. Gaza's greatest enemy r the killbots in Hamas who carryon thr terror campaign on Israeli whatever the wishes of the average Gazan might want. Israel has allowed & delivered over one million tons of humanitarian supplies to the people of Gaza in the past 18 months, nearly one ton of aid for every man, woman and child in Gaza. It's so easy to demonize Israel.
Clichyabarbes22 1 year ago
@Clichyabarbes22 Israel has no right to deny anything to anybody, for the same reason that I have no right to stop you from going to the supermarket. I have no right to control your right to purcahse A4 paper and colouring pens. Aparently Israel thinks it does (yes, colouring pens are banned in Gaza).. As far as I know Hamas are democratically elected, dont convince me, convince the palestitins to vote them out.
aristochat3 1 year ago
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@aristochat3 Like any sovereign state (whether think this state has the right to exist or not) Israel has a right to protect its borders, its people & its property. Gaza techinically is part of the conquered territories & as such, Israel does have authority over it. Palestinians have 2 enemies, Hamas & Israel, whereas Israel has the whole Muslim world. Hamas is not only terrorizing Israel by thr attacks, but thr own citizenry bcuz the attacks r do nothing constructive for either side.
Clichyabarbes22 1 year ago
@Clichyabarbes22 that depends if the land was theirs to claim soverignty over. Arabs would argue that Israel is standing on stolen property, "conquered" property and has therefore no rights to it. Perhaps if some part of Germany had been given to the jewish people as restitution, then maybe we would not be in this mess, but hey,zionists decided otherwise. Thus, the classic hate formula, force A to benefit B. means that as long as arabs breathe, they will never relent. + killing aid wrkrs no hlp
aristochat3 1 year ago
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@aristochat3 Are u serious?? A jewish homeland in Germany?? Guffaw. Jews were driven out of Europe & vitually all of the Arab world. Israel is small recompense to the Jewish people who lost lives, livelihoods, & property & went to a region of the ME where they had historical roots & proceeded to make the desert bloom & create a modern, well educated progressive society. A little island floating in a sea of hate. Not buying any argument that states Israel doesn't have a right to protect itself.
Clichyabarbes22 1 year ago
@Clichyabarbes22 Again, your history is incorrect. The idea that Israel took pristine land and turned it into a paradise is a fiction that has been torn apart time and again by serious scholars. 700,000 Palestinians were driven from their homes when Israel arrived on the scene, and they took land that the Palestinians had built a civilizations upon. At this point though, it's only academic; we should focus on a peaceful two-state or one-state solution.
JTsmiley14 1 year ago 5
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@JTsmiley14 Ah you mean the 350,000 Palestinians who fled their homes when the Arab Liberation Army declared war on Israel. And when Israel arrived on the scene? Israel didn't arrive. It was declared a state. The people had already been there for a long long time. There was never a country of Palestine. There would have been on, but the Palestinians rejected a 2 state option and declared war.
jonnyclueless 1 year ago
@jonnyclueless "His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in PALESTINE of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavors to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in PALESTINE, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country." Balfour declaration 1917
ucokcouk 1 year ago
@jonnyclueless I'll start listening when you acknowledge that Israel is in violation of UN 242. You don't get to "cherry pick" which facts you respond to.
JTsmiley14 1 year ago
@Clichyabarbes22 Well, a lot of people lost their lives and yada yada under Stalin and Mao and nobody is giving them an island. Again forcing A to benefit B is the hate formula. If you want to live in a neighbourhood where everybody wants you dead, so be it. An island in post war Europe may have been a comparitavely peaceful place sorrounded by like minded progressive geographic mafias and you would not have to travel so far to compete in the Eurovision song contest! lol
aristochat3 1 year ago
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aristochat3 1 year ago
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@Clichyabarbes22 On the right of Israel to protect itself, like any other geographic mafia, it must use whatever means at its disposal to legitimize itself and its actions in order to keep harvesting revenues for its political elites.
aristochat3 1 year ago 3
@Clichyabarbes22 Israel has NO LEGAL AUTHORITY OVER GAZA. Israel is illegally occupying Gaza and the West Bank. As such, Israel has no rights, only responsibilities. Israel has the right to "defend itself" as much as Nazi Germany had a right to defend itself from the French it was occupying. This is not hyperbole, but merely the application of the law.
If you are really interested in the history of this conflict, please read Israel/Palestine by Tanya Reinhart, an Israeli Jewish scholar.
JTsmiley14 1 year ago
@Clichyabarbes22 If Israel has been so kind to the Gazans then why has the Red Cross, Human Rights Watch, the UN Relief Workers Agency, Amnesty International, and other peace groups all condemned Israel's blockade and occupation? They are on the ground working for peace.
I cannot make you read history, but the fact of the matter is that Israel has been occupying and killing Palestinians for decades, driving them from their homes, bulldozing them, all in the name of Israel. The aid is just PR
JTsmiley14 1 year ago
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@aristochat3 The Turkish flotilla was largely loaded with crap. Expired medicines, obsolete medical equipment, well used clothing & the loading was done poorly so cargo was damaged. Israel will give medical care to anyone from Gaza who needs it. The only thing that prevents the people of Gaza from receiving this care is Hamas. Their political agenda is MORE important than the people of Gaza.
Clichyabarbes22 1 year ago
@Clichyabarbes22 Well lets wait for the independent investigation that Israel is currently blocking before we make statements as to what was in or not. Importing expired medicines in the middle east is nothing new, just because they are expired or just because the equipment is obsolete does not mean that they are not usable. The political agenda of Israel is also more important than the people of Gaza
aristochat3 1 year ago
@aristochat3 Ever live beside a crappy neighbour, they leave thr garbage all over ur lawn, don't take care of thr property & allow thr half dozen kids run wild all over including ur place. Thankfully I haven't. Gaza is Israel's crappy neighbour. The Arab worlds biggest welfare case, constantly making trouble for themselves, thr neighbours & the rest of the world. Actually I'm surprised at Israel's restraint.
Clichyabarbes22 1 year ago
@Clichyabarbes22 When all else fails, there is always the ad hominem. I am sure that the germans made exactly the same comment about the Warsaw ghetto. Turn off the water and then state that they smell and dont know how to wash themselves. It is all too familiar. Actually I'm surprised that Israel could not be more original.
aristochat3 1 year ago
@aristochat3 and surprise surprise, the israelis have managed to sideline an independent UN investigation, which will no doubt legitimize piracy at sea by a state. With the US as its backer, Israel is a moral hazard on active duty. Lets wait and see how the issue escalates when the Iranian flotilla arrives.
aristochat3 1 year ago
@Clichyabarbes22 yes but were they ILLEGAL rockets?
MClaudiusMarcellus 1 year ago
@MClaudiusMarcellus Huh?
Clichyabarbes22 1 year ago
@Clichyabarbes22 Your first comment is racist bigotry and nothing more. A statement with much more evidence to support it would be that the Israeli government (and far right nationalists) are devoted to the destruction of Palestine, since they are the ones illegally occupying the land and starving the population. The rocket attacks and other violence came AFTER decades of peaceful resistance to brutal humiliation. History is important in this conflict.
JTsmiley14 1 year ago
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@JTsmiley14 No the rocket attacks started in abundance when the Israelis managed to thwart the threat of suicide bombers. Oh poor Palestinians who had no thought about going into a market, or on a bus, or to a café & destroying everyone & everything within appropriate range of the blast.
Clichyabarbes22 1 year ago
@Clichyabarbes22 242
JTsmiley14 1 year ago
my channel has two videos that were smuggled and leaked to media. In my favorites, should be pretty recent, shows pretty clearly what happened. Also on "stimulator" 's channel.
Crustanarchy 1 year ago
You know Stef isn't wearing pants.
pedantologist 1 year ago
"they support isreal for these end times prophecy reasons" Thank you! Thank you for pointing that out! Thats why I think this issue as a whole is so stupid! What is wrong with the world?!!
WyldOrbit 1 year ago
To get booty? lol. jk. sorry, i couldnt resist.
WyldOrbit 1 year ago
Well to say they attacked the ship is incorrect. They boarded the ship to stop it and inspect it. You may still want to call that illegal, but calling it an attack is propaganda. And claiming it is an act of war is also incorrect since the instance occurred between two groups who are already AT war. Hamas has officially declared Israel an enemy.
ignored are the ships Israel has stopped where they have found weapons. Israel also sends in 10,000 tons of aid per week. Israel still lets the aid in
jonnyclueless 1 year ago
@jonnyclueless It did not occur between two groups that are already at war.
It occurred between Israel and TURKEY, since the ship was registered to Turkey.
givebirthathome 1 year ago
@givebirthathome
But the shipment was going to Hamas. Israel doesn't just stop ships because they are Turkish. They stop ships going to Hamas. And they do so because they have many times found missiles and weapons on ships to Gaza coming from places like Iran and Syria. Ships heading to a group that has declared war on them and used shipments to carry out attacks. Not to imply it's all black and white of course.
jonnyclueless 1 year ago
@jonnyclueless To imply that they simply "boarded the ship to inspect it" is propaganda itself. They RAPPELLED DOWN as part of a special forces raid. If they were simply boarding they would've come over on a BOAT.
thelastholdout 1 year ago 4
@thelastholdout
No, repelling down is pretty standard. They have no way of knowing if they will encounter hostile forces or not. It's pretty standard procedure when you're boarding a ship headed to someone who has declared you an enemy and who's charter declares removing your country. They did this on all boats. Only 1 of 6 was there a problem. The ship full of weapons and combat trained "activists".
jonnyclueless 1 year ago
@jonnyclueless It's pretty clear that you're just making things up as you go along.
Please come back when you're interested in facts and truth, and stop disrespecting us with your obvious lies.
JTsmiley14 1 year ago
@JTsmiley14
JT if you can't make an argument, then don't say anything. Just because you don't like facts doesn't make them lies.
jonnyclueless 1 year ago
@jonnyclueless Is that a joke? Virtually everything you've said has been in contradiction with all the major news reports. Do you have any idea of how an argument works, or do you just get huffy and then make unsubstantiated claims? The law is clear, the history is clear. You want to challenge that Israel is illegally occupying Palestine and illegally attacked a ship? Show me some evidence.
JTsmiley14 1 year ago
@JTsmiley14
No actually it doesn't. Look at the footage and look at the news reports. And now show us that law you referred to. You said it's clear, so please show us. Israel is not illegally occupying Palestine. Do you even know what happened in the 7 day war? And again do you know what an attack is? Show you some evidence of what? You keep making these claims and asking me for evidence. Be specific and read slowly.
jonnyclueless 1 year ago
@jonnyclueless United Nations Treaty: Convention on the High Seas 1958
Article 22
1. Except where acts of interference derive from powers conferred by treaty, a warship which encounters a foreign merchant ship on the high seas is not justified in boarding her unless there is reasonable ground for suspecting: a That the ship is engaged in piracy; or b That the ship is engaged in the slave trade; or c That though flying a foreign flag ... the ship is of the same nationality as the warship.
JTsmiley14 1 year ago
@JTsmiley14
Article 8
Warships on the high seas have complete immunity from the jurisdiction of any State other than the flag State.
In your article 22:
Except where acts of interference derive from powers conferred by treaty.
Article 23
The hot pursuit of a foreign ship may be undertaken when the competent authorities of the coastal State have good reason to believe that the ship has violated the laws and regulations of that State.
Again, you need to READ.
jonnyclueless 1 year ago
@jonnyclueless Article 8 - The UN is not a State. Article 22 - What treaty? Article 23 - It was not "hot pursuit" but it was boarded. Furthermore, from Article 23: Such pursuit must be
commenced when the foreign ship or one of its boats is WITHIN the internal waters or the territorial sea or the contiguous zone of the pursuing State, and may only be continued outside the territorial sea or the contiguous zone if the pursuit has not been interrupted.
NOW who is cherry picking? Give it up.
JTsmiley14 1 year ago
Hamas engaged in warfare with Israel and it's charter calls for the destruction of Israel, This makes the blockade legal. A blockade against a wring country is legal. Again, just like the US did with Russia during the cold war. You see as stated at the top of the treaty, "Desiring to codify the rules of international law relating to the high seas"
You ignore the international law part. You ignore that the UN has enforced blockades like Operation Sharp Guard on Yugoslavia.
jonnyclueless 1 year ago
@jonnyclueless The blockade and the boarding of the flotilla are two separate laws, not to mention that your point about war is completely at odds with history since Israel's illegal occupation was an act of war long before Hamas even existed, but it's clear to me that you have no interest in the truth and are continuously back pedaling as you realize I've got answers to all of your questions. I can't make you want to know the truth, you have to seek it out for yourself.
JTsmiley14 1 year ago
@JTsmiley14 No they aren't 2 separate issues. Boarding a ship is part of a blockade. The blockade isn't about stopping ships, it's about stopping arms. The shipments have to be inspected for arms before they can be delivered. Israel delivered the aid to Gaza. Israel is also NOT occupying Gaza so please stop lying. Don't tell me I have no interest in the truth because I demonstrate your claims to be false. Show us what land in Gaza Israel occupies. Or admit to lying.
jonnyclueless 1 year ago
@jonnyclueless Excuse me, Israel is not "occupying" Gaza. It is controlling Gaza in ever way, stealing its water, restricting everything that goes in and out of it, and is unquestionably collectively punishing the population while it occupies and expands in the West Bank.
Now that that's clarified, please illustrate what your point was with that beyond hairsplitting, since you know my overall point?
JTsmiley14 1 year ago
@JTsmiley14 Oh so now it's "stealing". Of course it controls what goes in and out of an area that has officially declared war on it, has the destruction of Israel on it's charter, and has a history of launching attacks on Israel. Egypt controls the Gaza check point on its border for the same reasons. You don't seem to have a problem when non-jews do it though do you? You don't have a problem when Hamas stops aid from coming in do you? Yes Israel sends in 10,000 tons of aid a week.
jonnyclueless 1 year ago
@jonnyclueless I'm not going to argue history with you and I am tired of watching you jump ship from "attack" to "Treaty" to debating "occupation." You're an idealogue and if you were interested in the truth you would've acknowledged where I was correct as I acknowledged your semantic point about occupation. But alas, it all comes back to Hamas, as if Hamas existed in 1948.
You're going to burn in Hell.
JTsmiley14 1 year ago
@jonnyclueless Read UN Resolution 242 for occupation law. You can also look up the World Court's ruling on the same topic. I can't post the links here due to youtube's regulations.
JTsmiley14 1 year ago
@JTsmiley14
What you ignore is that Hamas has violated that treaty. See you don't care about the actual events, you just care about criticizing Jews. You don't mind the Hamas, PLO, etc violating the treaty to kill Jews, you only mind when the Jews defend themselves.
jonnyclueless 1 year ago
@jonnyclueless I appreciate that you're moving on to saying I hate Jews. That's always the last line of defense.
I'm not playing your game of making this about Hamas. The law is clear. (What treaty did they violate, by the way? I just don't know what you're referring to here)
JTsmiley14 1 year ago
@JTsmiley14 As opposed to your constant childish claims of me lying and not knowing what I am talking about. And I didn't say you hate Jews. You just have no problem with the actions of any of the parties that are NOT Jews.
The Law IS clear. Now you need to learn it. Blockades are legal during armed conflicts. This is part of international law, which the treaty you tried to quote from has to support.
jonnyclueless 1 year ago
@jonnyclueless As I've stated, I have serious problems with the rocket attacks and suicide bombings, but we agree that that's wrong. My thesis is that the decades of immoral and illegal oppression against the Palestinians, which was exacerbated by peaceful protests, has driven people--very understandably--to desperate and violent tactics. Hit someone long enough and they'll hit back in any way they can. With Israel's military power, they went for civilians, and that helps Israel expand further.
JTsmiley14 1 year ago
@JTsmiley14 You do realize that what started this conflict was when Egypt, Syria, and Jordan attacked Israel right? And you are claiming the Palestinians use peaceful protests?? WTF?? When Israel was made a state, Palestine had the same offer. The Palestinians rejected the offer and declared war on Israel. You really need to learn your history. This whole conflict would be over if Palestinians would stop attacking Israel.
jonnyclueless 1 year ago
@jonnyclueless Well if we want to be serious, the conflict started when Jews from all over the world made 700,000 Arabs leave their homes just as the Native Americans were forced to leave their own. Since you continue to ignore my rebuttals I won't spoonfeed you anymore facts. Watch the debate between Noam Chomsky and Alan Dershowitz on youtube and ask yourself if you want to support starving children and blowing up hospitals in order to secure Zion.
JTsmiley14 1 year ago
@JTsmiley14 Check out London Declaration concerning the Laws of Naval War from 1909 and the San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea. The General Assembly to the Human Rights Council acknowledges the blockade as a legal military tactic. Check out Article 42 of the UN Charter. Check out the Gaza–Jericho Agreement.
jonnyclueless 1 year ago
@jonnyclueless OK now you're just ignoring the issue at hand. Our dispute was never about the blockade itself. Like I said, I could argue it, but I don't think it's relevant.
JTsmiley14 1 year ago
@JTsmiley14 Show us which part of Gaza is being occupies.
jonnyclueless 1 year ago
@jonnyclueless My clarification further reinforces my point that Israel is the aggressor and your insistence on pushing this semantic point reinforces that you're in this for dishonest reasons.
JTsmiley14 1 year ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@JTsmiley14 My Dishonest reasons? Israel is the aggressor because the Palestinain people declared war on them and launched an attack on them when they declared themselves a state and Palestine rejected statesmanship? Israel is the aggreessor because Hamas, calls for the destruction of Israel on their charter? Israel is the aggressor because Hamas continually launches missile attacks on Israel. Israel is the aggressor in trying to stop arms shipments which are common. You're just SO honest.
jonnyclueless 1 year ago
@jonnyclueless Now, as I clearly said in my last post, show me your evidence that Israel is NOT illegally occupying Gaza and the West Bank, and the evidence that boarding an aid flotilla in international waters is NOT also a crime.
JTsmiley14 1 year ago
@JTsmiley14
I just did. You see, I don't cherry pick the information like you do. I use the same sources but ALL of that source. You just take a few lines that fit what you want and dismiss the rest.
Now please tell us more about your arguments against Hamas launching rockets into Israel and using suicide bombers. How about how Palestinian forces have killed more Palestinians that Israel has? You don't seem to raise issue with that do you?
jonnyclueless 1 year ago
@jonnyclueless No one is arguing for the rocket attacks or suicide bombings. What we're arguing is that Palestinian violence, just like the violence from the IRA or other militant groups, happens for a reason, and looking into that reason rather than labeling people "fanatics" will bring about peace.
In this case, a look at the history of Israelis killing peacefully protesting civilians (look up Rachel Corrie) and bulldozing homes. Was that to prevent rockets too?
JTsmiley14 1 year ago
@jonnyclueless
THANK YOU.
God it seems like every news station and youtuber is just ignorant of these facts.
Assaultpredator 1 year ago
@jonnyclueless According to the UN, international law, and all the peace groups working in the region, it's illegal. I don't know what law you're looking at.
Israel coercively boarded a ship in international waters with armed commandos who killed numerous passengers. That is an attack. Furthermore, since Hamas had NO association with the ship (even the IDF made no such claim), then your argument is propaganda.
Admit it: you don't know what you're talking about.
JTsmiley14 1 year ago
@JTsmiley14
Which law? Show us the law you are referring to. Are you saying that it was illegal for the US to blockage the Russians in international waters during the Cuban Missile Crisis too? 2 groups are at war. There is nothing illegal about this at all. And the commandos did not attack, they fought back when they were attacked. Hamas is the GOVERNMENT that the shipment was being delivered to and you claim they have no involvement? You need to start reading.
jonnyclueless 1 year ago
This is all bullshit. Israel did what it had to do. Listen we are gonna blockade this region so that you can't keep firing rockets into our country. We will still give you humanitarian aid but it has to come through us so that we know whats in it. If you run the blockade, we'll confiscate your ship, you're lucky we didn't sink you.
If you don't like us scanning for weapons with a blockade, the alternative is that we nuke the shit out of you and THEN see how many rockets you fire.
fluff125 1 year ago
@fluff125
How are you going to nuke Gaza? Do you have nukes? Can the IAEA see your nukes?
asperin 1 year ago
@fluff125 Spoken like a true racist homicidal maniac. Look up:
1. international law
2. history of the conflict
3. basic moral principles
JTsmiley14 1 year ago
Uri Avnery has published a list of the names of the folks that Israel accused of Terrorism, at the Israel Occupation Archive, questioning whether they were terrorists. There's also a great article there by Stephen Zunes, who gives details about the boarding, and then our Democrats in Congress praising it fulsomely.
Even if there were terrorists on the Mavi Marmara, would that justify endangering the lives of the other passengers by attacking the ship, rather than just stopping it?
givebirthathome 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Gaza people live like salves in a prison surrounded by Israeli Army.
1. Obama and Michelle Obama do not give food to the salves in Gaza by supporting Block Aid by Israel
2. Gaza people do not have access to food , medicine because of Obama do not broke the block Aid by Israeli Army.
3. Israeli Army staring Ethnic cleaning in Gaza by not allowing enough food, medicine, material to build Home.
4. World must free all the people live like slave in Gaza prison surrounded by Israeli Army.
MonsterIsrael 1 year ago
I see you are using a different mic here. If you are having problems with echo/reverb, I would suggest throwing down a rug or even towels to absorb the sound. Tape up some egg cartons to the side walls if the rugs are not enough.
hadubnano 1 year ago
Stef, America is huge and consists of 2 continent. The USA is what you mean to say. Not all of America is part of the USA. I say this because we are so egocentric to think when we say America people just know we are talking about the USA as apposed to Canada, Mexico, Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile... I admire your thought processes and encourage you to be accurate when professing and analyzing. It gives you credibility and helps to educated egocentric US citizens.
summergiles 1 year ago
As an international lawyer I am very surprised by this guys (also a student of international law) interpretation of Israels policy on blockades by calling it a terrorist act when international law has absolutely zero agreement on the term 'terrorism'.
All in all a good interview though!
RoyvanKeulen 1 year ago
another great podcast stefean and i don't want to be mean but your dress looks like you threw it over one minute before the interview to appear more credible. you should have just word the t-shirt. that would have shown that you were in a hurry for the video but that would have been okay because it's about a recent event. it would have appeared more natural.
1schwererziehbar1 1 year ago
Comment removed
1schwererziehbar1 1 year ago
What a load of weak waffel. The Zionist Rothschild and his cohorts have systematically infiltrated governments in the UK and US, They own banks,corporations and media, Israel is their assassin state, when they want something done like 9/11 or 7/7 up pops Mossad, that is why both governments support Israel and fund them.
420946 1 year ago
I don't think anyone can get the Israelis or the Palestinians to get along. The Palestinians have been treated like subhuman waste for too long and the Israelis have been attacked by a people filled with a religious hatred. The best case scenario is to let this play out unfortunately. Support Israel and you support a Nazi style regime of extreme oppression. Support Gaza and you support a sharia law and extreme oppression.
TurboInsomniac 1 year ago
@TurboInsomniac You have good points. I do maintain that generally people can get along if there aren't state sanctions to interfere with cohesion or deficient resources.
summergiles 1 year ago
@TurboInsomniac Could you provide some evidence to the "sharia law and extreme oppression" inherent to Gazans? Because many peace activists go there from all over the world and they don't talk about some horrible religious repression.
JTsmiley14 1 year ago
@stefan moleneux and Ivan Eland,
you both totally missed the main case of this conflict. it's not hamas, it's not islamic fundamentalism...it is the Islam itself. Islam is not a religion, like hindoism...but it's a totalitairian indoctrine to kill everybody that does not submit.
Israel is getting aid's and food into Gaza...but what about the hunger in darfur? is the islamic government feeding them?
DeArmeStudent 1 year ago
@DeArmeStudent
Islam was not that much of a problem until the US started funding certain groups and bombing Muslim villages giving these very groups an excuse to get more violent and recruit affected males. This in itself was an excuse for US/Israel to justify their invasions.
You want to wipe them off, you can't, violence has not worked, you can only support the moderates and wait for Islam to dissolve. All religions will dissolve in the future as humanity evolves into a more rational species
asperin 1 year ago
@asperin
too true, the problem is that even MODERATE muslims do not speak out against extremist fanatics sending death threats
The problem is their BOOK actually is very clear when it comes to non-believers
the Hadith law which is even MORE clear in its rules. It is so apparent that all religions are man made
I agree with your statement of religions dissolving but it won't happen unless people at large view people who BELIEVE things without merit just like holocaust deniers.
Assaultpredator 1 year ago
@Assaultpredator
Moderate Muslims see themselves being cornered by people who generalize, they are not as vocal as they could be if people would not buy into MSM lies.
The hadiths are brutal, yes, yet they contradict the Quran in many instances.
Most, but not all, follow the hadith when in their Quran they are told not to, but that's another topic,
The Quran is a picnic in the park compared to the texts of the Christians and Jews.
Violence has not solved the religion problem. That's my point.
asperin 1 year ago
@asperin
Violence will NOT solve it, i advocate widespread education, and real debates and discussions.
I just feel that the moderate muslim community should do more to discredit the fanatics.
And with regard to the Christian and Jewish texts being more brutal, I am assuming you are speaking about the Old Testament. Unlike the Quran many many many if not most all Christians / Jews view that in a very different light (symbolism teaching, old people trying to understand their world)
Assaultpredator 1 year ago
@asperin
But the Quran, even by moderates, most always is viewed as completely the word of god and that it is literal. The laws, history of Muhammad, and what followed, are all seen in the Quran as recorded and written down by the Prophet.
I am not trying to argue with you, I agree with much of what you said, and even learned a thing or 2.
Thank you for being civil, and I hope to hear back.
Assaultpredator 1 year ago
@Assaultpredator
I'm not arguing either, I just do not want people to scapegoat Muslims and try to explain that the mess with the Middle East is a manufactured problem.
Their worldwide exposure is a recent phenomenon, before 911 Islam was in the shadows so to speak, the demonization campaign started and now they are the scum of the earth for a lot of people.
...
asperin 1 year ago
@Assaultpredator
BTW, most Muslims claim Muhammad could not write or read, kinda like to make their prophet story more extraordinary and miraculous.
I, and even some Muslims, doubt a wealthy and successful man like Muhammad did not know how to write.
The Quran mentions something that some translate as the "illiterate prophet" and others as the "gentile prophet(gentile = without a revelation/book/read)". Oldskool Arabic, you know, open to many translations.
asperin 1 year ago
@asperin
I think the idea is that he was a "simpleton" so to speak, until the angel appeared to him and instructed him to start writing.
The historical idea is that he had someone ELSE write it for him, adding to the argument against it being the "word of god/Allah."
I do agree that some try to demonize the religion, but many of those who you may feel do that are arguing against ALL religions and faith in general.
My quirk is that in our society today special care is taken
Assaultpredator 1 year ago
@asperin
to not offend those who cite faith as a reason for something, and it's left at that.
If someone was arguing with you about something and all of a sudden a certain sector is "off limits" simply because they hold their view based on faith, wouldn't that bother you?
Holding a view without sufficient or even ANY evidence or real thought in any topic other than religion/faith can lead a person to be perceived as a "loon." (again like holocaust deniers)
People like yourself who
Assaultpredator 1 year ago
@asperin
are actually competant and articulate should be the first to denounce the blind followers, no matter their faith.
I just believe (no pun intended) that Islam (specifically the Quran) is much more easily used to justify fanatic intentions.
My main grievance is with Theocracies. They are in my view the most immenient and extreme danger to the world stage as a whole, and must be debated against intellectually, not violently.
Assaultpredator 1 year ago
@Assaultpredator
Holocaust "deniers" are not faith-based, they have their evidence, I've seen it and it makes more sense than the official story.
asperin 1 year ago
@asperin
You just lost all credibility. WHERE DID ALL THE JEWS GO? MARS?
seriously, you are nutso.
The "evidence" you are referring to has an agenda and is skewed. You are honestly saying it DIDNT HAPPEN? Or that less jews were killed than reported?
If you are outright denying it, do not even bother to reply.
I cannot believe someone like you even found this poster's videos informative.
Assaultpredator 1 year ago
@asperin
Okay, then instead of holocaust deniers, replace that with "ELVIS LIVES" believers.
Same thing.
Assaultpredator 1 year ago
@Assaultpredator
The 6 million figure is highly exaggerated. That is what it looks like.
Don't get emotional, please.
asperin 1 year ago
I can't believe it! Is the world-famous anarchist actually saying something's "illegal?" Wow. I mean, wow. How can anything be "illegal?" Wouldn't punishing isreal be infringing on their rights to do whatever the hell they want whenever the hell they want? I mean, what the fuck? What's the point of living without rules if you actually have to follow rules? Who makes the dumb rules if it's all anarchy? It's just fucking retarded stupid oxymoronic. "Anarchist Laws." Oxymoronic.
LeksServices 1 year ago
@LeksServices
Anarchy is not "do whatever the hell they want whenever the hell they want", that is a definition that leads to tyranny. You don't see that attacking a convoy of supply ships and killing people is not only an act of extreme cowardice (no surprise from Israel) but is also an ultimate act of tyranny? That's not anarchy, that's what governments do. Anarchy means no coercive government, not "do whatever the hell you want no matter what".
fertilizerspike 1 year ago
@LeksServices I like this! I was really surprised that he took this angle on the situation. And they're blockading Hammas!! When America stops terrorists from getting material for missiles, we're heros, but the script is flipped for Israel?
rx7guy82 1 year ago
@rx7guy82 problem is the 1.5 million people being punished in order to stop Hamas getting weapons. Is this justified? I mean, collective punishment is a breach of Article 22 of the Fourth Geneva Convention. What's the point of international agreements of the importance of Geneva, when they can be dismissed so callously by a state?
BlankVellum 1 year ago
@BlankVellum Forget it. Today Gcon is a meaningless paper tiger, it all went to the wall with Gitmo, extraordinary rendition etc. Now its open session and the gloves are off. The important thing nowis to be on the side of the group with most fire power
aristochat3 1 year ago
@LeksServices Would it be fair do you think for me to criticise your like of chocolate by discussing the idiocy of drinking poison? Or do you think perhaps the concept that you like (actual chocolate) is more important than me incorrectly defining it? Obviously, your definition of Anarchism is irrelevant and only the concept (Rules, but no Rulers) that Stef recognises the moral legitemacy of is important. Doing whatever the hell you want has nothing to do with the concept Anarchism.
DreadLaw2 1 year ago
@DreadLaw2 Who defines "moral" then? If you don't want it to be Christians, or any other religion for that matter. And you don't like LeksServices' definition, who then?
rx7guy82 1 year ago
@rx7guy82 Who defines the laws of physics? Your question is flawed, Morality is empircal and objective. However, if we take for a moment the idea that it isn't, I still don't comprehend your response. Are you saying that if I can't come up with someone who can define morality, that automatically, and with no evidence makes government decree morality? Were Nazi laws moral purely because of our ignorance of ethics? That seems unlikely, perhaps we should apply standards consistently.
DreadLaw2 1 year ago
@DreadLaw2 Nature defines the laws of Physics, society defines moral. Sometimes its ok to be nudists, or head-hunters, it's just based on the chance of when and where you were born.
rx7guy82 1 year ago
Stef this is brillant stuff your putting out on youtube, dont let the critics (who have their views shaped by western media) knock you. Please keep the vids coming. Great channel, great work.
Theladiesman04 1 year ago 4
@stefbot Nice suit.
alique087 1 year ago
All in the name of god... If it were the will of your god then why does you god not smite your enemy? Why are you sending your children to die? Why the need for guns and bombs? Just prey them away...
deadman12078 1 year ago
Israel has every right to defend itself... Gaza is a nest of terrorists, I have no sympathy for the Pali terrorists. you liberals are pure evil
politicalratfinder 1 year ago
@politicalratfinder To which liberals are you referring? And how do you define evil?
redbuttonstudios 1 year ago
@redbuttonstudios I'm talking about the socialist liberals in America who think Israel is the devil and the Palis are innocent.... The filthy terrorist Palis shoot rockets in to Israel evryday and you liberals say nothing, Israel defends itself and you liberal traitors blow a gasket... hypocrites
politicalratfinder 1 year ago
@politicalratfinder Because Palestinian rockets into Israel have killed maybe a few people at most? The Isreali blockade and invasion of Palestine has killed thousands. The response is vastly disproportionate.
mrdowns 1 year ago
@mrdowns indeed. The bombings alone have killed easily twice as many palestinians as israelis killed in rocket attacks and suicide attacks.
Though the motivations may be, prima facie, legitimate, the real response has been far too severe.
migkillertwo 1 year ago
@mrdowns The attacks on 9-11-01 killed 2,995 people from 90 different countries, they weren't even all American. Now thanks to 19 people from Saudi Arabia, over 100,000 people have been killed/murdered in Afghanistan and Iraq, its seems kinda lopsided. But if its in our favor, its alright? We have to look at the bigger picture.
rx7guy82 1 year ago
@rx7guy82 That was exactly my point. It's not alright.
mrdowns 1 year ago
@politicalratfinder Hey buddy. I think you just might want look into the kind of audience you're calling liberals. Just saying. Most people that post under Stef's videos are varying degrees of anarcho-capitalists, minarchist libertarians, & possible converts who are diggin for truth and the means of getting to that truth. Just maybe this might have been your first FDR video and you didn't catch that.
nocturnalc 1 year ago
@politicalratfinder I feel as though you may have lashed out prematurely. What led you to believe that this was a socialist/liberal video? Your premise seems to be that the initiation of force is immoral and that self-defense is justified. I could not agree more, Why did you presume a fundamental disagreement?
redbuttonstudios 1 year ago
@politicalratfinder Somehow common sense tells me that forcing kids to starve doesn't reduce the amount of terrorists formed in Palestine.
ubernerd35 1 year ago 16
@ubernerd35
Something tells me "terrorists formed in Palestine" is a red herring, and that the governments of Israel and the United States are the largest and best-funded terrorist organizations on the planet.
fertilizerspike 1 year ago 12
@fertilizerspike Something tells me that I agree with you on that point. :)
ubernerd35 1 year ago
@ubernerd35 first of all its not the Israelis who are starving the children its Hamas and the people who launch rockets in to Israel.... All of this could go away if the Palis would stop terrorising Israel.... The Palis have brought in weapons and rockets via the sea route... Israel has every right to do what it needs to do to protect itself and if that is a sea blockade then so be it, its the Palis job to stop all of this.
politicalratfinder 1 year ago
@politicalratfinder There has always been hate on both sides, but things escalated after ISrael continued to build more settlements and create check points. Neither side has a legal/moral leg to stand on, but Israel has been the bully, thanks to US military and weapon support, not to mention trillions in funding.
Stupid religions also play a focal point, but they always do.
GtheMVP 1 year ago
@GtheMVP Who is occupying who? Who is violating international law? Who is suffering starvation in the world's largest prison? The Palestinians have every moral leg to stand on, with the exception of rocket attacks that are the result of the Israeli government's decades of repression and genocide. The solution to peace is to follow international law (UN resolution 242) and leave the West Bank and Gaza.
JTsmiley14 1 year ago
@politicalratfinder It is absolutely the Israelis who are starving the children, because they have the blockade. The rocket attacks are the RESULT of Israel's decades of illegal occupation and repression. If you had your land taken from you and your house bulldozed, and soldiers killed your friends during a peaceful protest, you'd think you had every right to defend YOURSELF. Israeli PM, Ben Gurion: "Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves ... politically we are the aggressors..."
JTsmiley14 1 year ago
@JTsmiley14 The Israleis are defending themselves... the people at fault for the whole thing are Hamas and the Pali terrorists.... when Hamas launches rockets in to Israel you say nothing... this could end if the Palis would just live with Israel.... The Hamas charter clearly reads it will destroy Israel, Hamas does not want a two state option, but Israel wants the two state option.... you need to realize who the problem is here, and its not Israel.... Israel is only defending itself...
politicalratfinder 1 year ago
@politicalratfinder This is not accurate. Hamas has repeatedly stated it would agree to a two-state solution. The rockets are the result, not the cause, of Israel's occupation and oppression. The proof is the uncontested fact that Israel was occupying and humiliating Palestinians long before rocket attacks happened, because they are trying to take over all the Palestinian lands, which is why they force them to leave their homes and bulldoze them. If you want the truth, investigate my claims.
JTsmiley14 1 year ago
@JTsmiley14 Israel in not occupying anything.... Ask the UN... I suggest you read the Hakas charter... then get back to me
politicalratfinder 1 year ago
@politicalratfinder Actually UN Resolution 242 says Israel is illeg