Glenn Gould - Beethoven, Sonata No. 30 Op. 109 - I

[GA4N]

In Beethoven , Gould has no balls . But he tries what he can ; and that is pretty much ....

[lego10123]

His CD's version is better...but this version isn't bad.

[3du76]

Zappa quote: "I haven't studied Bach, and I'm really not that crazy about his music. I don't hate it, but it's not something I would go out of my way to listen to" and then "only with the exception of Gould, because he twists the stuff so that at least there's a question mark inserted into the composition".

Sorry for my English

[TheCriticsAreRaving]

@3du76 For someone who boasted a small fraction of Bach's musical genius, it's good to know Zappa "didn't hate it".

[3du76]

@12345anonymousperson I belive that Gould has a truly modern mind. The "rushing" chors that you mentioned is, for me, a little piece of jazz... in fact, i think Beethoven had shared the modern aproach of Gould. And happens the same thing with Bach interpretation...

[cerberusdest]

@3du76 i full heartedly agree, this for me is what separates gould from any other pianist. I think that posterity will look upon the 20th century and find Gould to be its most significant pianist.

[cerberusdest]

@3du76 YESSSS the key is the modern approach gould and beethoven are the only two classical musicians i listen to and this is why!!

[bishopquack]

Love this version, Gould has a great approach to many works always very interesting

[hyperklavier]

This performance is a joke, try Serkin for the real stuff.

[essoffm1]

Am I the only one here who spent the whole time wondering why Gould is playing a Beethoven Sonata inside a nouveau Stonehenge?

[Sylvain894]

Every guy who would disagree with his physical language indispositions would have to run naked to north pole !

[Sylvain894]

Every guy who would disagree with his physical language dispositions would have to run naked to north pole !

[matematicaufes]

Glenn played this piece hearing two voices, like Bach.

[SepiaLatimanus]

Normally I'm a tremendous fan of Gould but I feel here that he deliberately misses an awful lot of opportunities for subtlety.

[Haeronthegreat]

Wonderful!

[Keithj136]

idk alot about music but this guy is Class :)

[vinciano]

Anyway I can agree when u wrote that Bach is the greatest composer ever.

[bonnmystic]

If people could accept the unique element here, and undersand the unique element of their own lives. Art is smply not what one expects.

[Matteo7419]

@12345anonymousperson ROTFL you're commenting about one of the greatest musical minds of 20th century telling that "Beethoven would have physically attacked him for this performance"... delicious. Comments on youtube are every time more and more amazing.

[joule162534]

you will not lower yourself to personal attacks but you wrote "f()ck you"

you are telling us that beethoven is a minor composer and you are talking about your "noble argument". i can't remember that you wrote an argument

you're making a fool of yourself.

chopin's music and beethoven music will stay forever. they were both great composer but with a very different style. one likes chopin more and some other beethoven.

there are not many people who call beethoven a minor composer. with good reason

[oneginee]

@joule162534. There is no real need for me to respond to your views except i want to make clear i do not use verbiage unless the person has already done so against an artist ! in this case that person wrote about Glenn "this guy is a fucking asshole.".

Sorry but nobody writes insults like this with impunity.

[oneginee]

like it or not i am not interested in lowering myself to your vulgar ways of personal attacks spewing out of your frothy mouth. My argument is noble. Beethoven will settle to his legitimate place which is that of a minor transitional overrated composer. But Chopin's music will stay forever. LOL..Chopin had no interest in beethoven and did not like his music. That is that.

[oneginee]

"beethoven tries to measure himself with the universe. Me, I am trying to express the soul and heart of man." -Frederic Chopin

Beethoven was not a genius. He was a secondary, transitional composer. Quantity is not always quality. Only Bach achieved both.

[Sonolumino8939]

@oneginee Fuck you. Beethoven was an unparalleled musical genius the likes of which the world will never see again. His music, especially his later works, show depth, color, beauty, and nuance that is magnificent in every way. I'm sorry his genius was wasted on a piece of shit like you. Bitch.

[oneginee]

@fiandri

you seem too uneducated to carry a conversation of diverging opinions without retreating to your last line of defense : profanities and personal attacks which is only a thin layer below your half civilized talking. I know beethoven's body of work very well. Have you sung his entire mass ? have you played his opus 101, 109, 110 ? I have. I can say he is a secondary transitional composer from his music.

(continued..)

[SidewalkFrequencies]

This is Great ! he's playing it just like one would play would Webern , but it's Beethoven. now that's a radical idea.

[mirrors1]

Beethoven is the genius

[wixorty]

come trasfigurare (e male) beethoven! glenn gould?? no grazie!!

[adepol78]

non dire stronzate

[drawcomics]

I like listening to Gould's interpretations of pieces that I know... if I ever hear his version of a piece I'm hearing for the first time i get completely lost and confused. I like this version, but if I were hearing this sonata for the first time I wouldn't get it.

[petie32]

If you want a nontraditional performance this is it. Accents in all the wrong places, but it presents as a new piece. And not bad. Gould definitely had 'oppositional-defiant disorder' and if you wrote a piece in 4/4 time he would play it syncopated in 3/4. He was to piano what Fisher was to chess.

[oneginee]

@randombackwash You are ridiculous. The truth is Beethoven is way overrated his music does not deserve the stamp of genius. Way too many useless notes in his scores. And that includes sonatas, symphonies, variation (especially!). Chopin was right about Beethoven. This is not music it is mixing behavioral fits and bad temper with a piano. I could never stand Beethoven and only confirm this more over the years.

[petezilla]

@oneginee Even though you don't like Beethoven, nothing you say can remove the eternal beauty of his Pathetique sonata, Moonlight sonata, or the present, and also his Pastoral symphony, 5th and 9th symphonies (and that is a very conservative list).

[Frozentoes1]

@oneginee Chopin did call him "le torchon allemand" - the German dishrag.

[oneginee]

@Frozentoes1

:D lol. i did not know. that is hilarious I did not know at least it is not in his published correspondence. I'd be very interested to know which book immortalized that word. Etant francais j'ai bien ri.

[Frozentoes1]

@oneginee I got this information from the book "The Great Pianist" by the former music critic for the New York Times, Mr. H Schonberg, I believe. Though, I would have to see where he got this quote from. Perhaps one of his students? Je ne sais vraiement pas, malheursement.

[Frozentoes1]

@Frozentoes1 ...malheureusement....

[fiandrhi]

@oneginee I've known three people in my life who had this same opinion of Beethoven. Each was an absolute moron, but a curious sort: they were idiots who believed themselves wise. I don't think it was a coincidence. I also suspect they had the most degraded souls.

[oneginee]

@fiandrhi

Many people rightly do not consider beethoven a musical genius. He is certainly the most overrated composer of the repertoire. Bach, Mozart, Schumann, Schubert, Haydn, Domenico Scarlatti were all true genius. Beethoven was The german wipe cloth as Chopin once called him. The only disfavor one can do to beethoven is to put him above where he belongs which is with the minor composers.

[fiandrhi]

@oneginee Well, that's the first I've heard of that comment of Chopin's... interesting. Beethoven, in a single movement, (the adagio of the Hammerklavier) invented every idea Chopin exploited, so excuse me if I don't take it very seriously, or you. You cite authority to legitimate the illegitimate, which is pitiable.

[oneginee]

@fiandrhi

like it or not i am not interested in lowering myself to your lead of personal attacks flurries and insults spewing out of your frothy mouth. My argument is noble. Beethoven will settle to his legitimate place which is that of a minor  transitional overrated composer. But Chopin's music will stay forever. LOL..Chopin had no interest in beethoven and did not like his music. That is that.

[fiandrhi]

@oneginee What "noble argument" do you imagine you've made? You've made assertions supported by an appeal to authority citing some unsourced quotation by Chopin. This is ignoble. I have no idea what you mean by "personal attacks". I have spoken only the truth. My estimation of the intelligence of people who have held this opinion is far more supportable than your assertion that Beethoven is "overrated". I asserted a belief it was no coincidence, and represented it only as a belief.

[qwerty14133]

@oneginee ......i'm sorry that is what? beethoven a minor transitional composer? overrated? for pushing the classic sonata form to its limits? i remind you he wrote 32 of them! or for writing some of the most memorable symphonies? oops....forgot chopin didn't like to do that an his orchestration sucked! piano trios? piano quartets? cantatas? operas? string quartets? please do yourself a favor and stop writing nonsense. gould was right in skipping most of the romantics. not worth it.

[organman52]

It is a shame that no one stopped this monster before he spewed his insanity all over the world. This 'performance' is, in my view, atrocious in every respect.

[oneginee]

@organman52 hahaha..you are like a worm frothing meaningless comments. Glenn is a true artist and you suck. it is as simple as this.

[jeremyvov]

Such is our interpretation of music and it should be reflected in Glenn's interpretation of the song as it is exactly that. Anyway thats all I wanted to say...@gilbarony yur spot on

[jeremyvov]

Seriously you guys? Is anyone actually listening to the piece or a minute in were already thinking of how you could share your vast array of arranging knowledge to the world. @turdman100, 1:45 is all I have to say; @12345anonymousperson, Glenn has what we composers like to call a heart and as you are well aware, sometimes it beats fast, sometimes slow.

[petezilla]

I think I prefer Geiseking's recording, but this version has it's own attractions too.

[turdman100]

listen to RIchter. he always saves the day.

[turdman100]

this guy is a fucking asshole. he has no power when he plays. he plays like an Ass clipped in stacatto. I can't ever hear the voice. Beethoven would smash this piano to pieces because it has been cursed.

[morvensky]

@turdman100 "he plays like an Ass clipped in stacatto" shows how intelligent you are...

[oneginee]

@turdman100 F()ck you. Beethoven is not worthy of Glenn Gould. Beethoven is way overrated except his last sonatas maybe.

[ArtyKing12345]

its a bit to fast. I like it slower. Just my opinion :D

[fastfingers110]

good ,but too fast

[gilbarony]

Glenn Gould is probably as genius as the great composers whose scores he played. Love you Glenn - thank you for ever...

[BrigondaX]

The famous chair of his father.

[morvensky]

I am surprised to see all these negative reviews, I think this is the greatest possible interpretation of this work (tied with Barenboim). But the negative opinions are just as valid as mine I suppose.

[sclyfes1212]

@morvensky Listen to Vladimir Feltsman, i'll have his recording up soon. It's remarkable.

[morvensky]

I have heard his CD with op.101 & op.106 aswell as op.13 in concert, and it was all spectacular so I am sure he plays this extremely well. I am looking forward to it!

[MasterAzunai]

Yeah, uh sorry glenn. THIS WAS AWFUL!! Listen to Daniel Barenboim if you want to hear a good recording. God disgusting.

[Norbeone]

you mean if you want to hear a predictable, by-the-book recording? ok

[davidgee100]

I am not sure that Gould "reaches" Beethoven here. What is curious is that after the performance is finished, one feels that Gould has acted the Maverick as has Beethoven on writing this piece in the fist place.

[Druggedfox]

Of course there is no proof of this being the case, but who's to judge if one mind is greater than another? Of course genius' pushed themselves, in fact, the most significant factor in being a 'genius' is constantly surrounding yourself and pushing yourself with your field of study. Gould is not deprecating Beethoven's genius, but in fact highlighting how Beethoven is so great that even in scenarios where he doesn't plan it out, it still has great value. Of course Beethoven may have planned it.

[20009325]

im sorry i love glen gould and all his bach but what the hell can he play with so much rabato he feels only by playing fast. in my sense this piece just was hit in the face.

[davidgee100]

Well, not initially convincing, as a whole. But the man is thoughtful and a serious artist

[Druggedfox]

It's not actually audible in this video clip, but im almost 100% positive he is implying that the performer could know more than the composer. I make this judgment based off of the clip of Gould talking about how there are genius retrogrades (or something similar) and when put up to a mirror, a later theme becomes the original. He also says that this is the genius of a true composer like Beethoven, but that Beethoven probably didn't realize what exactly he did, but that it was his instinct.

[trallocat]

I'm pretty sure that is EXACTLY what he thought about the performer knowing more, as long as "the performer" means "Glenn Gould." :-) I think he's lovely, and anyone who thinks I'm insulting him should really go read more of his writings! (Really! They're quite good!)

Sometimes GG liked to play things in an unconventional way; not necessarily to sound good, just to make you listen to it differently. I'm assuming that's why this rendition sounds kind of weird...

[Viviseckshunist]

Yes, he is talking about the role of a pianist in contemporary times. It is not enough to play a perfect replica of what the composer intended, instead one must re-interpret pieces. However, in order to be justified in doing this, the performer must know more about the piece than the composer himself. As an example, Gould discusses the retrograde melodies in this sonata, which Beethoven himself likely was not aware of--they came out of him almost instinctually, due to his genius.

[munkybrain]

can you tell me anything about retrograde melodies?

[SCHneiDen777]

Could someone endowed with better ears, or better speaker's, or someone who knows the interview tell me what he said at the beginning? Did he say "It IS impossible", or it ISN'T impossible"?

And at least, [for those of you who hate this performance], now that Glenn has played Beethoven, you know how [awful] it sounds! =) But I still like it.

Thanks for posting! Even his mistakes are worthy of praise. haha.

[8888sam]

gould does the impossible

if god played piano hed take lessons from gould

[xc0ntaminated]

i think he said 'itd be possible'

[IMATCH0603]

Who can know all of Beethoven?

[98igi89]

the chair is really funny :P

[gta661610]

Hahahahaha, Gouuld, what you've done whit this???... Anyway I like him so much...

[klinsha8]

GMALLADA, you're a bit nervous, calm down.

You must avoid to say gould was a "mamarracho" , only because his records of Beethoven 30,31,and

32 sonatas had so bad reviews by the experts then. I love Beethoven too, but i'm not so furious like you :Goldberg variations"MAS O MENOS ESCUTABLES".??!!.."PORQUE FUERON DE MODA"?! Callate, niño. No sabes usted la tonteria que has dicho...

Cheers

[somedudeplayingpiano]

ow come one, It's a interpetation, gheez, I think this is much better then the original preformance becouse he expres him self in the music and that is inportant, consider that when you want to djudge a pianist !

[BigBeethovenFan]

before he went completely crazy, but he should NEVER have gone near Beethoven!

[quintos34]

This great man had a musical brain the size of Africa, but this still sounds pretty awful to me. Guess I don't understand :)

[quintos34]

This doesn't sound to good to me, but hey, he's the bloody genius, I'm just a humble fan who doesn't understand shit about this interpretation..

Ans

[Cinturatorrente]

Your mother is horrible that spitted you out.

Respect G.Gould.

[Robotman42]

It's Glenn Gould!

[foxyjohnuk]

beethoven would turn in his grave if he heard this rendition!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BillyReuben28]

Beethoven will never hear it, but you will.  Try to enjoy it.

[choefrogg]

Beethoven is probably loop-listening from the sky... on a smaller chair :)

[p0lyph0ny]

Is it just me, or does the g# above middle C sound kind of weird here? Whenever he plays that note, it sounds almost like he's also playing the g# an octave above that, which is clearly not the case...is this his modified CD318 piano?

[chlrldud74]

It does sound funky, but not an octave higher to me. It sounds a tad too low...

[p0lyph0ny]

It's interesting to compare this interpretation to his recorded version. I think the adagio sections in the recorded version tend to be slower, and the tone in the recording is somewhat more demure. The recorded version is probably a bit more conventional (though it too has a lot of Gould's idiosyncratic choices, and is hardly a typical interpretation itself). I think I prefer the recorded version, but both are interesting.

[KeithWhalen11]

I do prefer some of the softer versions of this piece, however I must admit that NO ONE could transform or micromanage the tone of a piece like Glenn Gould. With that in mind, this is the way he felt the piece on this particular occasion. It's great to have contrast.

[MadMadMadTom]

I am with Brendel on this. I had to stop the video at 1:50 - it was just too painful hearing poor Beethoven's masterpiece being murdered.

[chlrldud74]

Even though MadTom'd statement may strike some the wrong way, I don't think it was entirely unwarranted. Gould is a great musician, but I don't think he does this piece justice.

[welltemperedpianist]

<3 Gould

[gmallada]

stupid stupid stupid gould!  play only bach pleaseeeeeeeeee

[matteoss93]

I hate him in Bach too, but here is better

[toyu17]

no,he play bach better than anyone.

[toyu17]

tell me about it seems you and i are the only that have ears.

[gmallada]

Gould apesta, Brendel dijo siempre que era un mamarracho, Pollini tambien opinaba lo mismo de el . Era un pianista deplorable, Milagrosamente sus goldberg son mas o menos escuchables, pero solo por que fueron de moda, Arrau Kempff Barenboim y otros las tocan mucho mejor, Gould solamente deforma la musica, la hace a su manera, Deberia haber sido compositor y ganarse el pan con sus composiciones, y asi haberse muerto a los 17 18 de hambre.... Un desastre gould. Encima ODIO QUE TOQUE BEETHOVEN!!

[gmallada]

Por que Beethoven no se lo puede ridiculizar de esta manera, Escuchen sus versiones , son horrorizantes, Escuchan la sonata op10 no1 o las op.31 , la Waldstein o la op2.1 Todo lo deforma sin ningun tipo de criterio solo para ser diferente a costa del compositor, Beethoven lo hubiera golpeado durante horas horas y horas hasta dejarlo sin sentido.

[beethoven4ever]

oh it is obvious that the three of you have ears but do not quite know how to use them :)

[toyu17]

people like you are followers.not willing to admit the most popular guy can have any faults.

[beethoven4ever]

he sure has faults, like everyone else. but i didn't see any criticism on here that rises to the level of his performance. i only saw one random person crying "stupid stupid Gould!" if someone is willing to criticize such an intense performance, they need to do better than that.

[gmallada]

"Dentro del marco hay una cierta libertad para el intérprete. Pero si traspasas los límites falsificas la obra". La sentencia de Alfred Brendel, gran defensor de la fidelidad a la partitura, choca con algunos pianistas muy celebrados. Entre ellos Glenn Gould. "No creo que todos los que son famosos sean asimismo admirables", dice. "Gould no creía en el carácter de la obra. Llegaba al estudio y tocaba, unas veces de una manera y otras de otra. Y ya no sabía cómo combinarlo.

[gmallada]

Gould era un excéntrico y siempre hay un hueco para los excéntricos. Tenía una buena técnica, admiro su control, pero como intérprete no comparto su actitud de cambiar la partitura hasta tal punto que tocaba tal como con seguridad el compositor no hubiera querido. El intérprete debe amar, no odiar, al padre. Si lo odias, ¡hazte compositor!"....Palabrasd del Genial Alfred Brendel Pianista de verdad y no marioneta de pianista como Gould

[beethoven4ever]

Thanks, but would you be kind enough to translate? As i can see above you clearly speak English.

Thanks again.

[gmallada]

Within the frame there is a certain freedom for the interpreter. But you transfer the limits you falsify obra". The sentence of Alfred Brendel, great defender of the fidelity to the score, hits some pianists very celebrated. Among them Glenn Gould. " I do not believe that all that are famous are also admirables" , it says. " Gould did not believe in the character of the work. It arrived at the study and it touched, times of a way and others of another one. And no longer it knew how to combine it

[gmallada]

Gould was an eccentric and always there is a hollow for the eccentrics. It had a good technique, I admire his control, but as interpreter I do not share its attitude to change the score to such an extent that touched as surely the composer had not wanted. The interpreter must love, not hate, to the father. You hate if it, do composer! "

[beethoven4ever]

Thanks. It's interesting to see the way Brendel sees Gould. It only shows the different approaches of both pianists to music. On the other hand, someone like Richter also had great fidelity to the score, yet appreciated Gould's different approach to music. I think part of the beauty of piano playing is that there isn't one correct way to do it. When you're on stage with the piano there's an almost infinite range of thoughts and possible interpretations available to you.

[toyu17]

first of beethoven, beethoven is dead.2nd in this vid gould suucckkkkkkkkkkkkkkk!!!!!!!!!!­!! u need to go around u-tube and im sure you'll hear a beeter performanance then this one.

[beethoven4ever]

This is very mature (and convincing)! Please, these are very valuable recordings, just try to put some effort and respect into your comments for the sake of the ppl on here who know how extremely difficult it is to interpret with this level of complexity. Thanks.

[NordicHealer]

It is very Strong, Masculine, Hard Edged and Robust...probably the way Beethoven the Bombastic, Tempestuous one would have played it! It's a refreshing change from the usual pale approach to this piece. The printed notes are but starting points...and true genius knows and understands that completely, and doesn't hold back from where their Soul leads them. They play it as they Feel it...musicologists and critics be damned.

[melaniejsnow]

I like the way you think!!

[NordicHealer]

Thanks melaniejsnow!

[faraz1729]

Couldn't agree more with you, NordicHealer.

[eirikpilot]

I think h4x3dby1337 is right. Gould's interpretation of Beethoven is very eccentric. But I like to think of it as a new insight. My favourite performance of this is by Brendel. Which is vastly different, specially tempos, as h4x3dby1337 mentioned. But you never know, maybe what Gould did in this video is just what Beethoven was thinking.

Thanks alot for posting. (Shame about the sound)

[EdoFrenkel]

Don't be so prude. There is a wonderful sense of musical forwardness and excitement.He gives some new life to this music.

[h4x3dby1337]

Typical Gould. The interpretation is very interesting, obviously it's not standard. The Adagio sections are too fast for my liking.

Gould is thought of as a Bach specialist for a reason.