I agree with locking the bolt to the rear first. I have seen many times where there was alot of pressure on the magazine due to the double feed and some were unable to remove the magazine. If the bolt is locked to the rear, it will remove all the pressure and you will not have a problem removing the magazine. Good videos though... please keep them coming.
You americans seem to love just chucking away your magazines.. why? its call a dump pouch, get one. Do you clearance change your mag if you really have to, ( mag shouldn't be manfunctioning as you would have already tested your gear like the good soldier you are ) and whip the empty one in to your dump pouch close it and get ready to continue your fire and movement. Here in Australia magazines don't grow in trees.
@AusTactical The only time it is suggested to "chuck" the magazines is when you need to clear a double feed FAST. A common cause in a double feed with the AR / M16 platform if bent feed lips. So that is why it is dumped, all other times the magazine is retained. Yes, agree with testing your gear 100%, but shit happens and malfunctions are not predictable. Any and All things mechanical will malfunction, plan on it and train for it.
@ATACTV If your magazine is the most likely cause of a double feed and it is empty, than you may be best getting your rifle loaded as fast as possible? Rather than taking a couple seconds to use a dump pouch for a double feed clearance while taking on fire, we choose to get ammo chambered as fast as possible. Yes, a dump pouch is a great idea, but too slow for a double feed clearance. Just our way of doing it. There is no right or wrong, as long as you can get it loaded / operational fast.
That is not a double feed malfunction. That's a linear malfunction caused by a failure to extract.
A double feed is completely different. It is caused by two cartridges attempting to feed at the same time (hence "double feed"), typically in a ">" (sideways "V") configuration.
Attempting to clear a double feed in the manner shown in this video may make the malfunction far worse, not better. There is a reason that the most respected instructors in the industry lock the bolt to the rear.
@ARevelationEng Locking the bolt back will also work. But you must run the bolt 3 or more times to clear out the cartridge or case that is chambered. We did look at your video, which is good, but would like to better understand how you were 100% certain that the cartridge or case was cleared out? You did not even run the bolt/carrier? You bet on locking the bolt back cleared the case out of the chamber? If it was in fact a double feed, you still must remove what is in the chamber first.
Again, a double feed is not a linear malfunction. In a true double feed, there will not be a cartridge in the chamber, rather there will be two cartridges attempting to feed into an empty chamber at the same time.
This is why it is so important to observe and identify any malfunction, unless made impossible by operational constraints. Before you can resolve a malfunction properly, you must first know what malfunction has occurred.
Also, I should specifically point out that I am not arguing that cycling the action three time in any way an error. When in doubt, cycle it out. But if you have observed an empty chamber, it may not be necessary. Further, cycling the action without observation does not assure an empty chamber, such as in the case of a separated rim.
I am, however, specifically arguing that attempting to strip the magazine, without first locking the bolt to the rear, can make a double feed far worse.
@ARevelationEng Thanks for the reply. I understand you claim of locking the bolt back and yes this is valid. We have seen people who set up malfunctions and those who induce the malfunction. Through the T&E of both, a round was most likely pushed up into the upper receiver when it was set up or staged. Malfunctions happen during the firing cycle and there was not an issue when the bolt was not locked. We filmed a 60 min program on this to validate. Staging Vs. Setting up malfunctions.
@ARevelationEng Cont... But there was NO harm in locking the bolt back. So in the other videos we filmed in HD we do discuss both. The program is only a promo, not intended to be viewed as instructional. The other key points was that looking into the AR-15 / M16 chamber is pretty tough to see. You can not see if there is a round pushed up or? The ejection port is so small. We also try to push that a quick look on any firearm cannot be counted on since most encounters happen when it is dark.
@ARevelationEng Cont... A strong point is to be sure to run the bolt, the ejection port is too small and there is no way in the dark let alone light that a shooter can see in the chamber of a AR/M16 platform. But a great thread and we appreciate your comments! Thanks again for your reply!
@ARevelationEng "I am, however, specifically arguing that attempting to strip the magazine, without first locking the bolt to the rear, can make a double feed far worse."
Not necessarily.
In the words of Clint Smith, "beat the snot out of it until it works." If you know the drill, you will get it shooting again the majority of the time.
Don't worry about why it happened, just get it working again or toss it and find something else to help you fight until it's over.
@ARevelationEng The reason you run the bolt 3 or more times is also important. You must have enough force for the extractor to grab the case rim of the chambered round. It may not extract it on the first or second attempt.
@ARevelationEng I disagree as anytime two cartridges have attempted to feed into the chamber, it is a Double Feed. It could be an empty case in the chamber with a partially stripped cartridge from mag, it could be two cartridges in a "V" as you suggest too. Locking the bolt back works, so does ripping the mag out. Without racking the bolt 3-4 times, you are not sure the chamber is empty when you reload. So you are calling this malfunction a "fail to extract? Its a double feed.
@KandiManRavr2k8 Its highly dependent on the person and scenario. The whole AK accuracy debate and all that is reliant on the model, you'll be amazed on the distinction between knock offs and the real Russian models. I blame the faulty sights on the cheap export models. The round itself (7.62x39) is getting obsolete an while the 5.56 is weaker in terms of kinetic energy, the tumbling effect causes horrendous flesh damage
@KandiManRavr2k8 The "power" difference between the two guns really isn't the defining point. Between the AK and the AR, it's a choice of whether you want something that will shoot reliably 24/7 though not as accurate on auto and at long ranges, or a gun that will shoot most of the time and nail everything on full auto and beyond 500 yards. Since both the 7.62x39mm and 5.56x45mm are frikkin' high velocity rounds that do cartwheels inside the body anyway, the damage difference is negligible.
I don't want to come off as that asshole who loves to call things out, but you always lock the bolt to the rear or hold it to the rear before you really do anything else and then drop the mag with the bolt locked to the rear upon the identification of a double feed.
@MaddDawg42 OK here it goes. There is no reason to lock the blot group back and here is why. With an external magazine (no internal magazine like a pistol) you can grab it and pull. The only reason to lock the bolt back is to take pressure off the feed ramp and/or any type of resistance which may be present would be using an internal magazine fed firearm. Not an external magazine fed, simply put, you have something to grab and pull out.
I had a stove pipe in my m4 in a fire fight lmao man can you talk about fuckin scary or what damn cartridge was stuck behind the bolt lmao it took me 30 seconds to clear that bitch xD i was smack middle in the street going towards a stone wall lmao
It's mostly from a failure to extract. The spent round is jammed inside the chamber for whatever reason and the extractor claw slips over the rim. When the bolt moves forward again to feed a fresh round it can't chamber the round due to the spend round still being jammed inside the chamber.
LupisLupine is correct. There are two feed ramps just prior to the chamber on lugs of the AR-15. Roughly in the 5:00 and 7:00 location. This is intended for the side by side / double stack mag. feeding. Ex: A round can be chambered and another round just pushing up against it. It is common in all firearms. You have to remove the magazine and run the charging handle a few times to extract the chambered round.
it's a reoccurring issue with the AR system, the first round chambers improperly (doesn't get fully seated into the barrel), but the weapon assumes otherwise so the bolt cycles another round with the trigger pull, hence the "brass low" and one in the chamber jam.
The more I see his videos the more I like them. He keeps it simple, in the end that is what will work. Too many complicated approaches to simple solutions. He does this in slow motion faster than the Magpul vidoe does it full speed and MUCH better...
I have seen many people do this. I also asked the same ? and the reply was they did not like the BIG loop on the end of the magazine, it was a snagging point and by turning it sideways it was easier to grab and pull the magazine out of the AR. Also Magpul has changed the design a couple years back and use their new floor plate / pull which is much better than the big loops.
I agree with locking the bolt to the rear first. I have seen many times where there was alot of pressure on the magazine due to the double feed and some were unable to remove the magazine. If the bolt is locked to the rear, it will remove all the pressure and you will not have a problem removing the magazine. Good videos though... please keep them coming.
kyle4851 2 weeks ago
You americans seem to love just chucking away your magazines.. why? its call a dump pouch, get one. Do you clearance change your mag if you really have to, ( mag shouldn't be manfunctioning as you would have already tested your gear like the good soldier you are ) and whip the empty one in to your dump pouch close it and get ready to continue your fire and movement. Here in Australia magazines don't grow in trees.
AusTactical 6 months ago
@AusTactical The only time it is suggested to "chuck" the magazines is when you need to clear a double feed FAST. A common cause in a double feed with the AR / M16 platform if bent feed lips. So that is why it is dumped, all other times the magazine is retained. Yes, agree with testing your gear 100%, but shit happens and malfunctions are not predictable. Any and All things mechanical will malfunction, plan on it and train for it.
ATACTV 6 months ago
@ATACTV If your magazine is the most likely cause of a double feed and it is empty, than you may be best getting your rifle loaded as fast as possible? Rather than taking a couple seconds to use a dump pouch for a double feed clearance while taking on fire, we choose to get ammo chambered as fast as possible. Yes, a dump pouch is a great idea, but too slow for a double feed clearance. Just our way of doing it. There is no right or wrong, as long as you can get it loaded / operational fast.
ATACTV 6 months ago
That is not a double feed malfunction. That's a linear malfunction caused by a failure to extract.
A double feed is completely different. It is caused by two cartridges attempting to feed at the same time (hence "double feed"), typically in a ">" (sideways "V") configuration.
Attempting to clear a double feed in the manner shown in this video may make the malfunction far worse, not better. There is a reason that the most respected instructors in the industry lock the bolt to the rear.
ARevelationEng 6 months ago
@ARevelationEng Locking the bolt back will also work. But you must run the bolt 3 or more times to clear out the cartridge or case that is chambered. We did look at your video, which is good, but would like to better understand how you were 100% certain that the cartridge or case was cleared out? You did not even run the bolt/carrier? You bet on locking the bolt back cleared the case out of the chamber? If it was in fact a double feed, you still must remove what is in the chamber first.
ATACTV 6 months ago
@ATACTV
Again, a double feed is not a linear malfunction. In a true double feed, there will not be a cartridge in the chamber, rather there will be two cartridges attempting to feed into an empty chamber at the same time.
This is why it is so important to observe and identify any malfunction, unless made impossible by operational constraints. Before you can resolve a malfunction properly, you must first know what malfunction has occurred.
ARevelationEng 6 months ago
@ATACTV
Also, I should specifically point out that I am not arguing that cycling the action three time in any way an error. When in doubt, cycle it out. But if you have observed an empty chamber, it may not be necessary. Further, cycling the action without observation does not assure an empty chamber, such as in the case of a separated rim.
I am, however, specifically arguing that attempting to strip the magazine, without first locking the bolt to the rear, can make a double feed far worse.
ARevelationEng 6 months ago
@ARevelationEng Thanks for the reply. I understand you claim of locking the bolt back and yes this is valid. We have seen people who set up malfunctions and those who induce the malfunction. Through the T&E of both, a round was most likely pushed up into the upper receiver when it was set up or staged. Malfunctions happen during the firing cycle and there was not an issue when the bolt was not locked. We filmed a 60 min program on this to validate. Staging Vs. Setting up malfunctions.
ATACTV 6 months ago
@ARevelationEng Cont... But there was NO harm in locking the bolt back. So in the other videos we filmed in HD we do discuss both. The program is only a promo, not intended to be viewed as instructional. The other key points was that looking into the AR-15 / M16 chamber is pretty tough to see. You can not see if there is a round pushed up or? The ejection port is so small. We also try to push that a quick look on any firearm cannot be counted on since most encounters happen when it is dark.
ATACTV 6 months ago
@ARevelationEng Cont... A strong point is to be sure to run the bolt, the ejection port is too small and there is no way in the dark let alone light that a shooter can see in the chamber of a AR/M16 platform. But a great thread and we appreciate your comments! Thanks again for your reply!
ATACTV 6 months ago
@ARevelationEng "I am, however, specifically arguing that attempting to strip the magazine, without first locking the bolt to the rear, can make a double feed far worse."
Not necessarily.
In the words of Clint Smith, "beat the snot out of it until it works." If you know the drill, you will get it shooting again the majority of the time.
Don't worry about why it happened, just get it working again or toss it and find something else to help you fight until it's over.
Watcher3223 3 months ago
@ARevelationEng The reason you run the bolt 3 or more times is also important. You must have enough force for the extractor to grab the case rim of the chambered round. It may not extract it on the first or second attempt.
ATACTV 6 months ago
@ARevelationEng I disagree as anytime two cartridges have attempted to feed into the chamber, it is a Double Feed. It could be an empty case in the chamber with a partially stripped cartridge from mag, it could be two cartridges in a "V" as you suggest too. Locking the bolt back works, so does ripping the mag out. Without racking the bolt 3-4 times, you are not sure the chamber is empty when you reload. So you are calling this malfunction a "fail to extract? Its a double feed.
johnwinn11 6 months ago
Look, Lock, Strip, Rack Rack Rack, Feed, Rack
sloth1009 6 months ago
YOU NEER OF NEVER DO THAT PULL THE BOLT BACKJUST TO TAKE THE ROUNDS LIKE THAT IT COULD STILL FIRE YOU KNOW
blakborre 7 months ago
Wouldn't it make more sense to retain the magazine?
John234pwns 1 year ago
@John234pwns mag spring might be weak which could lead to a 2nd double feeding
gorgonash 7 months ago
Would like to know what charge handle and lower receiver you have if I could.
killtime8 1 year ago
@killtime8 It kinda resembles the gunfighter charging handle but i don't think it is. maybe a Knights armament but i'm just guessing
flyhighkev 9 months ago
why do you teach/tell to look at the rifle to see what type of malfunction it is?
bsrman36 1 year ago
What you gonna do if you are under fully automatic armor piercing AK fire with that crappy gun?
TheAKmatics 1 year ago
@TheAKmatics dude shut the fuck up. the AK may me be more powerful than an m4/m16/ar15, whatever.
but the m16 is a far more superior weapon, in accuracy, mobility, etc etc.
an AK in full auto is garbage.
an m16 in full auto remains accurate, unlike the AK.
but semi auto is the way to go.
KandiManRavr2k8 1 year ago
@KandiManRavr2k8 Its highly dependent on the person and scenario. The whole AK accuracy debate and all that is reliant on the model, you'll be amazed on the distinction between knock offs and the real Russian models. I blame the faulty sights on the cheap export models. The round itself (7.62x39) is getting obsolete an while the 5.56 is weaker in terms of kinetic energy, the tumbling effect causes horrendous flesh damage
romanlegions 9 months ago
@KandiManRavr2k8 The "power" difference between the two guns really isn't the defining point. Between the AK and the AR, it's a choice of whether you want something that will shoot reliably 24/7 though not as accurate on auto and at long ranges, or a gun that will shoot most of the time and nail everything on full auto and beyond 500 yards. Since both the 7.62x39mm and 5.56x45mm are frikkin' high velocity rounds that do cartwheels inside the body anyway, the damage difference is negligible.
TheWitnesserer 6 months ago
I don't want to come off as that asshole who loves to call things out, but you always lock the bolt to the rear or hold it to the rear before you really do anything else and then drop the mag with the bolt locked to the rear upon the identification of a double feed.
MaddDawg42 1 year ago
@MaddDawg42 OK here it goes. There is no reason to lock the blot group back and here is why. With an external magazine (no internal magazine like a pistol) you can grab it and pull. The only reason to lock the bolt back is to take pressure off the feed ramp and/or any type of resistance which may be present would be using an internal magazine fed firearm. Not an external magazine fed, simply put, you have something to grab and pull out.
ATACTV 1 year ago
@ATACTV whoops, good call. I jumped at that one too quickly.
MaddDawg42 1 year ago
I had a stove pipe in my m4 in a fire fight lmao man can you talk about fuckin scary or what damn cartridge was stuck behind the bolt lmao it took me 30 seconds to clear that bitch xD i was smack middle in the street going towards a stone wall lmao
MrBlowmeladies 1 year ago
What is the barrel length?
CCNIRVANA 1 year ago
@CCNIRVANA Chances are its between 14.5 inches and 16. It's too long to be any shorter (from the way I saw it in the video).
samtaekwondo123 1 year ago
correct me if I'm wrong, cuz a double feed occures when 2 bullets are tried to be chambered at the same time. how is that possible??
useless241 2 years ago
It's mostly from a failure to extract. The spent round is jammed inside the chamber for whatever reason and the extractor claw slips over the rim. When the bolt moves forward again to feed a fresh round it can't chamber the round due to the spend round still being jammed inside the chamber.
LupisLupine 2 years ago
LupisLupine is correct. There are two feed ramps just prior to the chamber on lugs of the AR-15. Roughly in the 5:00 and 7:00 location. This is intended for the side by side / double stack mag. feeding. Ex: A round can be chambered and another round just pushing up against it. It is common in all firearms. You have to remove the magazine and run the charging handle a few times to extract the chambered round.
Glock17trainer 2 years ago
it's a reoccurring issue with the AR system, the first round chambers improperly (doesn't get fully seated into the barrel), but the weapon assumes otherwise so the bolt cycles another round with the trigger pull, hence the "brass low" and one in the chamber jam.
asianpsuation 1 year ago
@useless241 well it can happen many ways, the extractor did not grab the spent
casing when it was fired. Therefore the spent casing stays in the chamber while the
a new round is be pushed into into the chamber, this causing a double feed.
AmdGod 1 year ago
remember to practice this because your ar is going to double feed ALOT
sunofsam44 2 years ago
@sunofsam44
funny I have never had a double feed in my AR
a couple of stove pipes but a new extractor spring and it runs perfect again
I am up to 6000 now with out a single malfuction
bigpapa45acp 2 years ago
@bigpapa45acp wow 6000 round and not a jam? cool.
Wast3m 1 year ago
The more I see his videos the more I like them. He keeps it simple, in the end that is what will work. Too many complicated approaches to simple solutions. He does this in slow motion faster than the Magpul vidoe does it full speed and MUCH better...
Glock17trainer 2 years ago
I have seen many people do this. I also asked the same ? and the reply was they did not like the BIG loop on the end of the magazine, it was a snagging point and by turning it sideways it was easier to grab and pull the magazine out of the AR. Also Magpul has changed the design a couple years back and use their new floor plate / pull which is much better than the big loops.
Glock17trainer 2 years ago
When you have to move to slow motion just to see everthing happening, you know he is very well trained in this.
Jesses001 2 years ago
why the sideways magpul on the bottom of the Pmag?
yamo1231 2 years ago
Preference mostly! Plus if its on the standard way it wont fit in some Issue Mag Pouches
SaginawGS 2 years ago