@featheon Please don't nail me down on "the Bach period" ... I just meant that composers like Schoenberg or especially Webern related their music to that of the polyphonic era. Of course there are a lot of others who did polyphonic music and of course JS Bach was regarded as old-fashioned during the last decades of his life (even by his own sons). Yet to me he is the most outstanding composer using polyphonic techniques. Seems like in some sense he finished that period with many masterpieces...
@SepiaLatimanus If you would get deeper into the music of Arnold Schoenberg you would find more traditional elements (mainly from the late romantic period) than you now think of, and a lot of influence from the Bach period (polyphonic structures). And you would also find out that his music (even that one using serial technique) is based NOT on a mathematicel idea but on inspiration. I would strongely advise you to listen to his late Piano Concerto op. 42. This is full of great musical ideas.
@musikfreund69 Do you really think that polyphonic structures characterize "the Bach period"? After all, Bach was seen as old-fashioned for his time, given the rise of homophonic styles since Arcadelt, and of course, the rhetoric of Rousseau and the Florentines.
@delameu I shudder to think. Possibly, he would have battered Schoenberg into oblivon with his wig, before proceeding to rewrite the cello parts and cut out the viola.
listening without music many times is better. Later we see the relations we only glimpsed at. Students with their head stuck in da page are doing music a disservice though many elites say diff. Get the experience first -esp. music o this caliber .
I didn't like this work at all until I bought the sheet music so I could follow along. Now I think it's one of the most sublime pieces of music ever written
all this debate about needing musical knowledge or not, or what is or isn't schönberg -- this is exactly what he didn't want. "i just want people to listen to my music" -- A.S. the same as any other composer. its as much intellectual as it is visceral.
i have been trained musically and i honestly think Schoenberg's music is horrible but it is also genius he is amazingly clever in his music i just really dislike his music and i wish i didn't lol
@BeholdJesse That's such an insulting and pretentious remark. How can you dare to defend jazz, a music that has grown from the chains of slavery and the working classes of America, and then tell me that only 'Some people' have the divine right and intelligence to listen to it. You didn't say 'A less trained listener'. You said 'the Avergae Listener'. the fact is, it requires not a bit of musical training to be moved by this music. And it requires non training to play jazz well.
@witness124 I never said that the class of the individual has anything to do with your musical ear. And yes, I referred to the "Average listener" because the average listeners in America lack depth. Look at the current state of popular music and radio, I'd hardly call that moving. Yes they are capable of being moved by it, but most choose not to be. And what do you mean by it requires non training to play jazz well? The best jazz musicians trained their asses off to be able to do what they do
@witness124 Well technically nobody needs lessons for any style, but if you want to be anybody it's probably a good idea to get a well respected teacher. Wastes less time and pushes you further if you really want to compete with the musicians that are already established out there.
@BeholdJesse Obviously. But the blatant staement that people without musical training probably can't appreciate musical genius as much as thse with it. I have a decent enough amount of knowledge in the area of musical theory. My parents have none. But a Mozart Symphoy (The geat g minor symphony, top be exact) almost moved them to tears. It didn't move me in the same way at all. why can't people without it appreciate it as much as those with it? Please answer that question before digressing.
@witness124 And I NEVER said that some people have the divine right and intelligence to listen to it. But the fact is that most people aren't bumping BB King, Gillespie or Ted Greene. And you realize that when I say they have a musically trained ear I mean that they can actually hear and understand the progressions being presented in their musical context right? It's a whole new level of listening that takes a lot of dedication to be able to compulsively do when listening to any style
@witness124 mate to train an ear is an education so if you don't receive one then you are the common ear and believe me even a talended ear is pretty common if it doesn't receive training. For the other matter now yes, if you can't decode music and understand it, you can again be moved but that relationship is short and in fact that kind of piece can really confuse and make nervous someone how just hears them.
@BeholdJesse yes the average that you mention is in fact unmusical so in that way accepts only commercial stuff and nothing else i don't find any prejudge in that. It needs way more contact to music for only to accept to hear this stuff in my opinion.
I love the opening, with the striking modulations (1:50) and ensuing polyphony. For those who think of Schoenberg as an academic who couln't write tonal, lyrical music here's one of many pieces that proves them wrong.
Parts of this music remind me of the old Universal Horror movie soundtracks. I can picture Frankenstein or the Wolfman stalking about, their shadows cast on the castle wall....
@safeh0use for the same reason that junkies do... they have chosen to devote their lives to the mastery of something, and this sort of devotion be it to music, art, science, math, drugs, food or religion (to name but a few) generally comes at the cost of neglecting things like trends in style. It is part of the price paid for a deeper level of understanding, IMHO.
well this is early Schoenberg when he hadn't started experimenting with atonality yet. That's why it's easier on non avant-garde ears. However, frankly I think atonal music is snobbish and shows how out of touch a composer is with reality.
@asdfsdf37 I am not in disagreement with what you said. Just out of curiosity do you consider Ornette Coleman's music to be "snobbish"? Or possibly your point was at the exclusion of jazz as part of the atonal paradigm? Which i might agree with as well.
@asdfsdf37 Um, yeah, I'm sure the Ancient Greeks, who were used to music completely lacking harmony and full of microtones, would find Bach fugues "out of touch with reality."
Thanks for posting this - don't worry about having to split it to get it on Youtube. You've performed a great service to many people. This is a superb performance of a gorgeous piece of music.
@kelloggcerealxoxo And you are a propagator and a perpetuator. I have blonde hair and blue eyes, and am deeply offended by your slurred remark. Why not go post some anti-semetic comments on a Wagner song, you piece of shit?
Beautiful. I've really not given Schoenberg much of a chance in my listening... but I'm starting to really love his work now that I'm exploring it more. He seems to like the Viola!
I'm perhaps not someone from whom you ought to take any serious musical advice, but I feel pretty safe in saying Veklarte Nacht is probably not the best place to begin with Schoenberg -any more than I'd begin with Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors or Picasso's Portrait of Aunt Pepa.
This is an early piece, and a lovely piece, but a far from representative piece.
@polymath7 Yes, I'm aware of that. That's kind of my point: that I'd only really listened to his 12-tone works and Serialism, and wasn't aware he'd written anything like this.
I mean, I love the serialism too, but I'm glad to see there's a lot of contrast between his early works and his later ones. This was his Opus 6, right?
This was his earlier work that was not entirely atonal but "trans-tonal" as it was constantly shifting tonalities. Some of my favorite music and also a form that has been overlooked as far as developement and practice as the atonal 12-tone rows became all the rage shortly after.
Schoenberg was an intelligent composer. He wanted to find new ways concerning the equality of the twelve tones. But it was a way of error as there are special relationship between the first of the twelf tones and the 8th and the 5th tone for example (physical lawas and sound !!!! ). I think that was the reason why later he abandoned this way. But the problem is that the following generations did not understand that it was an error.... So the Berg Boulez Nono etc generation got in big troubles...
before I had only listened to the orchestral version of verklarte nacht, I always wondered how the originial score for sextet was... it's fucking awesome!
I actually only listen to metal (mostly black/death/melodic death etc etc) but I have played the violin for 12 years. Currently im playing the 5th movement of the lalo symphonie espangole! It's an awesome piece (check it out). I also play the piano because i might want to study music
This is not a atonal piece of music. Schoenberg wrote this in 1899 and in that period he didn't yet write atonal music. There are a lot of dissonant chords in it, that's true. But it's not atonal. In this period Schoenberg's music sounds a lot like Wagner and even a little bit like Brahms in some ways. He was a great fan of Wagner and Brahms.
For this composition alone, the sextet already has a unique tonal style that Schoenberg could have developed. Does this composition sound like Beethoven, Tchaikovsky or remind you of any other composers? Cause it sure sounds unique to me.
Just imagine the endless possibilities Schoenberg could have created with the tonal system. It's such a shame he limited himself by switching fully to the 12-tone technique.
You truly do not understand Schoenberg to make such a sweeping statement.
The "12 tone technique" is exactly that; a technique. Schoenberg frequently permutated the tone row in many of his compositions. He in no sense "limited" himself (he even returned to diatonic tonality in some of his later works), he created his own unique tonal world; the tonal world which he began to create in the Verklarte Nacht, with it's unique string orchestration.
dga471, you give atonality too much credit because it hasn't done much to the classical industry. To this day, tonality is still dominating.
My knack with Schoenberg is that his rules are specific so that his compositions equate all 12 tones so they're of similar importance. He could have made the piece with a key and added in sections that were atonal, which he wouldn't do after making the system. Listen to Prokofiev, he did much better.
As far as style goes, it's not limited by tonality.
I must disagree. Atonality greatly increased the musical vocabulary. Before the 1900's you could argue the emotional spectrum consisted of happy, sad, fast, slow (major or minor). You often had to know the back story to really understand a piece of music. Atonality gave us evil, confusion, disorientation...emotions simple major and minor had a difficult time expressing.
That's exactly why I like atonality sometimes - there is something deeper expressed when you express anger through atonality rather than you express just by doing a C minor sturm und drang thing.
@milo76puck: Tonal music gave us more than happy and sad. One can buy sets of recordings of tonal music that runs the range of human emotions for use in TV and Movies for example. But I wanted to point out that atonality has appeared in music in various ways before the 1900's and all the way back to the Baroque.
In the industry, of course it dominates, since atonality requires a lot more sophistication to enjoy than tonality. Tonality is easier to enjoy since we've been exposed to it since we were babies; most popular music is based on the tonal system, even jazz. I also agree with you that serialism alone is kind of self-limiting, which is why I try to combine serialism with tonality in my own compositions. But at least give Schoenberg some credit for what he has found. It's still an interesting system
You seem to not agree that music has intrinsic value; it only has value from what the listeners think and feel about it. I do not agree on this point, as I believe that any kind of music has value. Although we can't precisely determine how high the inherent value is, it still has value. And we all seem to agree that Beethoven has a lot of value, and even that Louis Armstrong was a great jazz musician. This is why I believe introducing people to Schoenberg isn't a bad thing.
Now the question of whether classical music would still be the "in" thing if we never went down the road of atonality, I say probably not. It would still be pushed aside by popular music, even if we continue to produce works in a new style which is more accessible compared to serialism. As I said, there are many more reasons why orchestral classical music is not mainstream music today.
So in the end I'm curious, if you were God and you could make things in the musical scene happen the way you wanted, how would you have changed the history of music in the 20th century? What composition style do you think was the better way for Tchaikovsky and Brahms to evolve to? Is it minimalism? Impressionism? World music influences? Neoromanticism? I wonder. Even after serialism went out of fashion, nobody still talks about tonality in the same way people did before Schoenberg.
I'm not trying to say anything about what should have happened. My issue is not with what people chose to wrote, it is what people chose to promote. Like I said, students were literally forced to write serialist music because it WAS the way forward as far as anyone was concerned. It's not like it was a voluntary exploration, it was a flat out tyrannical decision. 12 tone/serialist pieces were being forced on the public and completely burned bridges for composers in the 20th century.
And today, they STILL put "avant garde" 20th century pieces in between Beethoven and Brahms so that people cant leave after intermission because they dont want to hear something. Nevermind that they paid for their ticket, we're doing them a favor by exposing them to something that they dont know that they like yet, right?
It's a load of crap. Atonality didnt wasnt merely explored, it was mandated, and no one wants to take a step back and say "whoops. We were wrong."
My point being: tonality wasnt embraced again. It was reluctantly allowed back in because atonality couldnt hold the fort down like everyone supposedly knew it would. We still refer to anything remotely expressive and tonal with full harmonies as "neo-romantic," making no attempt to hide the fact that we're labeling it as "already done."
Orchestras wont play new music if it doesnt have the "edge" of contemporary music, despite the fact that composers today are more than capable of writing music that people would love next to the "great masters" instead of just being able to say things like "hmm. That was very interesting."
The turn of the 20th century essentially marked the moment where Western Classical Music wasnt "the" music anymore. This goes much deeper than we've talked about, and is tied to things like the fact that we hold Mozart's simple melodies above straight forward orchestral accompaniment decidedly above broadway musicals just because it is "classical music".
It is still socially unacceptable to disregard atonality, and more than ok to refer to all tonality as rehashed and outdated.
So the problem here isn't an aesthetic one, it's purely a publicity one (as well as academic trends)? Do you believe Schoenberg has any worth as a composer? I just want to know.
As for myself, I believe it's not acceptable to disregard atonality, but it's also not acceptable to say tonality is outdated. Some composers require more sophistication and a longer attention span so we can enjoy them.
Even for some late Romantic stuff - do you realize how hard it is for some people to enjoy Mahler, although it's really tonal? From my personal experience, when I was young I thought the last two movements of the Elgar cello concerto were long, rambling, and only vaguely "nice" (since they use a style very different from something like the Dvorak concerto). But now I recognize how great music it is. Then I graduated to Mahler, then Prokofiev & Stravinsky, and finally the serialists.
The fact is, it's not that Schoenberg isn't enjoyable, it's actually the case that Schoenberg is harder to enjoy (but can be enjoyed, genuinely), and that a lot of people stop their musical appreciation at tonality. That's not something wrong, it's just a fact.
Conductors put new pieces between Beethoven and Brahms because they hope they can help the audience expand their listening repertoire.
If we never helped to introduce new works and styles, then we would keep playing a very limited list of pieces, such as Beethoven's 5th, 1812 overture, and Rachmaninov 2nd. What's wrong with introducing new music, both tonal AND atonal? While musical elitism is wrong, I think it's also equally dumb to say that anything non-tonal is crap.
Lastly, if you think putting in contemporary atonal music between brahms and beethoven is cheating people's money, how about if we publicize a concert for Beethoven's 5th and Tchaikovsky 1st, and put in Schubert's Unifinished in between? A lot of people would come for Beethoven and Tchaikovsky, but of course they would be "forced" to listen to a still good, but not as crazily popular work.
Well, for starters, I cant tell you whether Schoenberg has worth as a composer because art has no inherent value. We give it meaning.
Regarding "harder to enjoy," the human brain is capable of enjoying a multitude of things for a wide variety of reasons. One reason is familiarity. Another might be the association with being "cultured." The fact that Schoenberg can be enjoyed says very little.
Regarding your comment on "helping" to introduce new styles, I dont see how that makes any sense. No one was "helping" Mozart or Beethoven or Tchaikovsky, and that certainly doesnt mean they werent doing anyting new. Again, you are for some reason suggesting that were it not for atonality, we'd still be playing nothing but 18th and 19th century music.
I dont think I said anything non tonal is crap, I'm not sure why you're bringing that up.
Regarding your comment Schubert in between Beethoven and Tchaik, I dont know what you're trying to prove. The fact of the matter is that they dont NEED to put Schubert in between Beethoven and Tchaik. In fact they can feature Schubert's unfinished and have a successful turnout.
For this point on the Schubert between two other works, I was replying to your point that if someone puts an atonal work between two familiar ones, they are partially cheating on the audience's money and forcing atonality down their throats. I'm trying to argue here that that kind of programming is NOT forcing people, it's trying to expand their taste by introducing new styles.
I refer to the case of Schubert between Beethoven & Tchaik because it's basically the same thing: if someone programs Schubert ONLY, the turnout might still be good, but definitely less than just Beethoven's 5th, for example. In this case, Schubert is to those people like atonality is for some of us: we're not familiar to it. And believe me, I do know a lot of people who can only listen to very famous classical works like Beethoven's 5th.
I'm talking about introducing new styles, simply because classical music isn't the "in" thing anymore. Thus familiarity isn't a good measure of whether it's worth to be programmed, because you want to add your audience as well as expand the existing audience's taste.
Even Rachmaninov was still writing Romantic symphonies in the 1930s. How about Holst? Britten? So many things happened during the first half of the 20th century. Atonality helped to colour the scene, it didn't halt it.
And if it did, you can't then say atonality is "crap." What reasoning have you put forward for this? When I said music critics are respecting atonality, I'm just countering your statement that nobody talks about atonality anymore. The fact is that nobody ever denounced atonality.
When I said that atonality "gave us a break" from tonality, I am not trying to give a judgment that tonality had no more room to go. I was just stating a historical fact that happened: people became sick of serialism and then embraced back tonality, this time with considering new freshness.
The 20th century didn't see any single unified movement to compose in a particular style. We had the impressionists and neoclassicists, during the time of Schoenberg.
he didnt go apeshit. He developed a form of music never before witnessed, probably with the foresight that only geniuses can have to see that the creation of twelve tone was not only the creation of twelve tone, but the birth of a new way of thinking that would lead to the birth of a million new genres.
Yeah... except that all 12 tone music did is halt development within classical music for about 50 years while small minded bald white men with PHDs insisted that music students be literally forced to write using methods of serialism, only to have the whole thing eventually putz out half a century later without any further recognition... and now no one wants to talk about it.
you missed my point. Twelve tone wasn't the end. Twelve tone was the beginning of the development of new musical ideas that were until then never even considered based on the idea that it wasn't music. Twelve tone helped to expand the definition of music, for better or for worse.
Not really, since music critics are still out there glorifying Schoenberg while listening to Tchaikovsky and Rachmaninov at the same time. While it was kind of stupid for people to be limited to composing in 12 tones, it doesn't mean the system doesn't have any merit. At the very least, it gave us a break from sentimental Romanticism and made us welcome back tonality with more enthusiasm. Would you seriously have want people to compose like Johann Strauss and Tchaikovsky for the last 100 years?
Great. Music critics. That's how we define value within music? Give me a break.
You are perpetuating a ubiquitous and illogical notion classical music would have everyone believe that tonality stopped at romanticism. That anything tonal that was to come after romanticism would have been Tchaikovsky and Brahms all over again. That's a load of crap. The fact of the matter is that atonality was wrong about tonality. It was birthed out of an entirely false notion that there was nowhere else to go.
Although music critics aren't our ultimate judges on determining what is worthwhile music, we can't ignore them completely either.
Did I ever say that tonality stopped at romanticism? I also disagree that atonal was the only way to go. I said that was "stupid". But I do believe that atonality was ONE way to go. You see Liszt, Wagner and his progressive friends putting in all these ultra-chromatic chords, then it's not surprising that someone decided to do away with the system.
Wow- this is Schoenberg? But .... but... it's actual MUSIC!
1990osu 3 weeks ago
esta pieza es preciosa,me encanta ...la interpretacion me parece fabulosa
blackvelvet220 1 month ago
@featheon Please don't nail me down on "the Bach period" ... I just meant that composers like Schoenberg or especially Webern related their music to that of the polyphonic era. Of course there are a lot of others who did polyphonic music and of course JS Bach was regarded as old-fashioned during the last decades of his life (even by his own sons). Yet to me he is the most outstanding composer using polyphonic techniques. Seems like in some sense he finished that period with many masterpieces...
musikfreund69 2 months ago
Um sonho onde se abre uma porta para um labirinto liquefeito.
JeffersonAnglesorath 3 months ago
I loved it!
evinhafarbe 3 months ago
the violia player looks like ted bundy. coincidence ? I think not
peacock427 4 months ago
Please, what is the title of this piece? .. !!
freectee 7 months ago
@freectee Arnold Schönberg: String Sextet "Verklärte Nacht" (transfigured night) op. 4
johnstrieder 7 months ago
would anyone be kind enough to share the title/op. #?
StefanPolzin1 7 months ago
@StefanPolzin1 @freectee Arnold Schönberg: String Sextet "Verklärte Nacht" (transfigured night) op. 4
johnstrieder 7 months ago
@johnstrieder thank you
StefanPolzin1 6 months ago
Beautiful. This is the stuff of a genius. And yet he chose to leave behind this music. It makes you think he had a really good reason, or something.
Tonal or not, I <3 Schoenberg.
LevMysh68 7 months ago 2
What on earth is this? I didn't know Schoenberg ever tried to write music.
SepiaLatimanus 7 months ago
@SepiaLatimanus If you would get deeper into the music of Arnold Schoenberg you would find more traditional elements (mainly from the late romantic period) than you now think of, and a lot of influence from the Bach period (polyphonic structures). And you would also find out that his music (even that one using serial technique) is based NOT on a mathematicel idea but on inspiration. I would strongely advise you to listen to his late Piano Concerto op. 42. This is full of great musical ideas.
musikfreund69 6 months ago
@musikfreund69 Do you really think that polyphonic structures characterize "the Bach period"? After all, Bach was seen as old-fashioned for his time, given the rise of homophonic styles since Arcadelt, and of course, the rhetoric of Rousseau and the Florentines.
featheon 2 months ago
I hear a tonic.
darthjoey13 8 months ago 11
before he went crazy
rattyboydave 8 months ago
Notice how this performance seems to inspire intelligent-sounding but slightly condescending comments.
Lo, pretentiousness, friends.
buffyfan123456789 9 months ago 3
I would love to have the names of this sextet listed. I think Christian Tetzlaff is first fiddle, but I'm not certain.
I think it should be a requirement of all postings here on youtube to give total credits due.
thanks.
BestAmateurViolinist 10 months ago
wonder what bach wouldve thought of this
delameu 10 months ago
@delameu I shudder to think. Possibly, he would have battered Schoenberg into oblivon with his wig, before proceeding to rewrite the cello parts and cut out the viola.
witness124 9 months ago
@witness124 He would have done the same with Brahms's Sextets.
alienalienss 9 months ago
@alienalienss More's the pity.
witness124 9 months ago
listening without music many times is better. Later we see the relations we only glimpsed at. Students with their head stuck in da page are doing music a disservice though many elites say diff. Get the experience first -esp. music o this caliber .
lovesGenet 10 months ago
regio!! de lo mejor que se ha hecho....
nadizc 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
13 justin bieber`s fans was watched the video -.-"
MrUcUcHa 11 months ago
13 justin bieber`s fans was watched the video -.-"
MrUcUcHa 11 months ago
I didn't like this work at all until I bought the sheet music so I could follow along. Now I think it's one of the most sublime pieces of music ever written
lvbandmore 11 months ago
all this debate about needing musical knowledge or not, or what is or isn't schönberg -- this is exactly what he didn't want. "i just want people to listen to my music" -- A.S. the same as any other composer. its as much intellectual as it is visceral.
buzzflydunbother 11 months ago
2:45 to 3:06 is this intense buildup/climax, and then it gets resolved in the strangest way possible at 3:07. Almost like it evaporates.
blacksmith8844 11 months ago
i have been trained musically and i honestly think Schoenberg's music is horrible but it is also genius he is amazingly clever in his music i just really dislike his music and i wish i didn't lol
Primevalman 11 months ago
i do not know much about music. but this hardcore dissonance and atonality really moves me.
andrewbautista23 11 months ago
@andrewbautista23 not dissonance , post tonal technique and a free use of tonalities without harmonies rules.
atzitzikas 11 months ago
Spokane Symphony performing this very soon; looking forward to it!! -Cello Chr 4
I think it just moved!
MrCelloman5 1 year ago
Spokane Symphony performing this very soon; looking forward to it!! -Cello Chr 4
MrCelloman5 1 year ago
this piece totally slays!
motorhead412 1 year ago
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motorhead412 1 year ago
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motorhead412 1 year ago
Transfigured
edmundbw 1 year ago
@BeholdJesse "the average listener"? What this happens to be?
vsocolowski 1 year ago
I feel bad for those who can't enjoy Schoenberg's music. There's so much more to it than the average listener can hear.
BeholdJesse 1 year ago
@BeholdJesse Oh, because 'some listeners' are less average than others. Of course. What a predjudiced ad short sighted comment to make.
witness124 1 year ago
@witness124 Uhm yes some people have a less trained musical ear. It's a fact. Jazz musicians pride themselves on having such
BeholdJesse 1 year ago
@BeholdJesse That's such an insulting and pretentious remark. How can you dare to defend jazz, a music that has grown from the chains of slavery and the working classes of America, and then tell me that only 'Some people' have the divine right and intelligence to listen to it. You didn't say 'A less trained listener'. You said 'the Avergae Listener'. the fact is, it requires not a bit of musical training to be moved by this music. And it requires non training to play jazz well.
witness124 11 months ago
@witness124 I never said that the class of the individual has anything to do with your musical ear. And yes, I referred to the "Average listener" because the average listeners in America lack depth. Look at the current state of popular music and radio, I'd hardly call that moving. Yes they are capable of being moved by it, but most choose not to be. And what do you mean by it requires non training to play jazz well? The best jazz musicians trained their asses off to be able to do what they do
BeholdJesse 11 months ago
@BeholdJesse Apologies....I maeant to say NO training. Obviously you need practice, but no one needs LESSONS in jazz .
witness124 11 months ago
@witness124 Well technically nobody needs lessons for any style, but if you want to be anybody it's probably a good idea to get a well respected teacher. Wastes less time and pushes you further if you really want to compete with the musicians that are already established out there.
BeholdJesse 11 months ago
@BeholdJesse Obviously. But the blatant staement that people without musical training probably can't appreciate musical genius as much as thse with it. I have a decent enough amount of knowledge in the area of musical theory. My parents have none. But a Mozart Symphoy (The geat g minor symphony, top be exact) almost moved them to tears. It didn't move me in the same way at all. why can't people without it appreciate it as much as those with it? Please answer that question before digressing.
witness124 11 months ago
@witness124 And I NEVER said that some people have the divine right and intelligence to listen to it. But the fact is that most people aren't bumping BB King, Gillespie or Ted Greene. And you realize that when I say they have a musically trained ear I mean that they can actually hear and understand the progressions being presented in their musical context right? It's a whole new level of listening that takes a lot of dedication to be able to compulsively do when listening to any style
BeholdJesse 11 months ago
@witness124 mate to train an ear is an education so if you don't receive one then you are the common ear and believe me even a talended ear is pretty common if it doesn't receive training. For the other matter now yes, if you can't decode music and understand it, you can again be moved but that relationship is short and in fact that kind of piece can really confuse and make nervous someone how just hears them.
atzitzikas 11 months ago
@BeholdJesse yes the average that you mention is in fact unmusical so in that way accepts only commercial stuff and nothing else i don't find any prejudge in that. It needs way more contact to music for only to accept to hear this stuff in my opinion.
atzitzikas 11 months ago
Much more beautiful than most people would expect from Schoenberg. So many people take his most extreme musical moments out of context.
MisterHowe 1 year ago
damn badass.
L337wizard 1 year ago
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damn fucking badass.
L337wizard 1 year ago
I love the opening, with the striking modulations (1:50) and ensuing polyphony. For those who think of Schoenberg as an academic who couln't write tonal, lyrical music here's one of many pieces that proves them wrong.
hotplate85 1 year ago 2
Really, really wonderful.
OrisLover 1 year ago
Fantastic! This original version (string sextet) is the very best!
Mário
Santos,SP (brasil)
Mariovsky1 1 year ago
Parts of this music remind me of the old Universal Horror movie soundtracks. I can picture Frankenstein or the Wolfman stalking about, their shadows cast on the castle wall....
utube9000 1 year ago
This is one of my favorite pieces of music.
It displays the feelings of my heart as well as I could hope.
intervalkid 1 year ago
This is young, good Shoenberg who wrote good music.
This is from before he turned...to the dark side.
1990osu 1 year ago
2:30 Headbanging!
YarekOner 1 year ago 9
amazing amazing --etheral
Nabanitacg 1 year ago
not quite as annoying as most of his work! I like it very much
zanny151 1 year ago
What a beautiful and diverse piece
richieh86 1 year ago
I'm writing my history essay on instability in Europe pre-WWI to this. What an era.
stevemcqueen1986 1 year ago
Why do violinists always have stupid hair?
safeh0use 1 year ago 21
@safeh0use It is because musicians are stupid, überhaupt.
pellegestalten 1 year ago
@safeh0use for the same reason that junkies do... they have chosen to devote their lives to the mastery of something, and this sort of devotion be it to music, art, science, math, drugs, food or religion (to name but a few) generally comes at the cost of neglecting things like trends in style. It is part of the price paid for a deeper level of understanding, IMHO.
eggplnt 8 months ago
@eggplnt How many hours Oscar Wilde was tieing a necktie?
diedoppelganger 8 months ago
@eggplnt the right answer: the necktie was tieing up by himself.
diedoppelganger 8 months ago
@eggplnt it(sometimes inanimates objects become animates on the neck in the fullness of time)self
diedoppelganger 8 months ago
@diedoppelganger devilry. how you exasperated everyone with your neckties! nobody's to blame that the moon fell down on your fragile head
diedoppelganger 7 months ago
well this is early Schoenberg when he hadn't started experimenting with atonality yet. That's why it's easier on non avant-garde ears. However, frankly I think atonal music is snobbish and shows how out of touch a composer is with reality.
asdfsdf37 1 year ago
@asdfsdf37
Why do you make that connection between atonal music and "Out of touch with reality"?
diegoescolochog 1 year ago
@asdfsdf37 I am not in disagreement with what you said. Just out of curiosity do you consider Ornette Coleman's music to be "snobbish"? Or possibly your point was at the exclusion of jazz as part of the atonal paradigm? Which i might agree with as well.
JackSmith07 1 year ago
@asdfsdf37 Um, yeah, I'm sure the Ancient Greeks, who were used to music completely lacking harmony and full of microtones, would find Bach fugues "out of touch with reality."
ArtD42 1 year ago
This is very soothing! I tought Schönberg was nothing but atonal bullshit but this is really beutiful!
HerrWarja 1 year ago
Don't know why....the beginning part reminds me "Mont St.Michel".
AleDaino 1 year ago
Thanks for posting this - don't worry about having to split it to get it on Youtube. You've performed a great service to many people. This is a superb performance of a gorgeous piece of music.
teagueqc 1 year ago
ewwwwww it hurts my ears
luapnosliw 1 year ago
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@luapnosliw go away child!
wimmzey 1 year ago
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@luapnosliw go away child!
wimmzey 1 year ago
it's really good to hear this composition stripped back to it's original instrumentation, compaired to the string orchestra version.
joebassplayer 1 year ago
Comment removed
wildfire0259 1 year ago
The best composer/musician of the XX century.
Remoxx 1 year ago
what is the name of this piece?
guppers51352 1 year ago
@guppers51352 it's called Verklaerte Nacht , or in english; transfigured night.
averyshikanai 1 year ago
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Do you know what Shoenberg piece is in my video or if it's atonal of twelve tone?
gissamusiken 1 year ago
Do you know what Shoenberg piece is in my video or if it's atonal of twelve tone? watch?v=1ECXXiHeqL4
gissamusiken 1 year ago
thank you !!! this is Awesome
mdivisio 1 year ago
boring...
I'm sorry
I don't like this stuff!
blegh
patrickloemoemba 1 year ago
Absolutely adore it
vgonrod 1 year ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
I have just realized why this recording is so amazing - The first violinist is Christian Tetzlaff, one of the greatest violinists now-a-days!
pulse84 1 year ago
I have just realized why this recording is so amazing - The first violinist is Christian Tetzlaff, one of the greatest violinists now-a-days!
pulse84 1 year ago
this piece reminds me of my beautiful ex-girlfriend.
I'll never forget her .
bopkick5 1 year ago
The man who revoltionized the 20th century music!
afsdasdasda 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
what a jew...
kelloggcerealxoxo 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
You're a Jew.
danohrly 1 year ago
Whether one is Jew or not, how does anything of consequence follow from the truth or falsity of this proposition?
Your reply, should you produce one, will no doubt include an accusation that I am a Jew.
polymath7 1 year ago 26
@polymath7 i accuse you of being a Jew!
number1neek 1 year ago
@polymath7 lmao
CadenceCaliber 1 year ago
@polymath7 Isn't genocide a consequence of the aforementioned proposition?
JackSmith07 1 year ago
@polymath7 I think, it is time to enjoy Schoenbergs Music for its own. He is a great composer. His music is a wonderful example of modernism.
KERNWER 1 year ago
@kelloggcerealxoxo And you are a propagator and a perpetuator. I have blonde hair and blue eyes, and am deeply offended by your slurred remark. Why not go post some anti-semetic comments on a Wagner song, you piece of shit?
BeauIXI 1 year ago
Beautiful. I've really not given Schoenberg much of a chance in my listening... but I'm starting to really love his work now that I'm exploring it more. He seems to like the Viola!
FlippyX 1 year ago 2
I'm perhaps not someone from whom you ought to take any serious musical advice, but I feel pretty safe in saying Veklarte Nacht is probably not the best place to begin with Schoenberg -any more than I'd begin with Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors or Picasso's Portrait of Aunt Pepa.
This is an early piece, and a lovely piece, but a far from representative piece.
polymath7 1 year ago 3
@polymath7 Yes, I'm aware of that. That's kind of my point: that I'd only really listened to his 12-tone works and Serialism, and wasn't aware he'd written anything like this.
I mean, I love the serialism too, but I'm glad to see there's a lot of contrast between his early works and his later ones. This was his Opus 6, right?
FlippyX 1 year ago
@polymath7 I know what you mean... I almost feel guilty for enjoying this Shönberg piece haha
ploschad 1 year ago
this would sound great with some heavy metal guitar thrown into the mix
awesomewelles90 1 year ago
@awesomewelles90
lool not the first part though! maybe the part 2 would be better
mikebagel27 1 year ago
it was awsome
biebern 1 year ago
Zzzzz...
Gonna go listen to some Respighi instead.
dyingbeforeyoudie 1 year ago
This was his earlier work that was not entirely atonal but "trans-tonal" as it was constantly shifting tonalities. Some of my favorite music and also a form that has been overlooked as far as developement and practice as the atonal 12-tone rows became all the rage shortly after.
intervalkid 2 years ago
Schoenberg was an intelligent composer. He wanted to find new ways concerning the equality of the twelve tones. But it was a way of error as there are special relationship between the first of the twelf tones and the 8th and the 5th tone for example (physical lawas and sound !!!! ). I think that was the reason why later he abandoned this way. But the problem is that the following generations did not understand that it was an error.... So the Berg Boulez Nono etc generation got in big troubles...
uhartchristian 2 years ago
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aguante el heavy metal ! !! ! but, this armony is very good :)
6guitar6metal6 2 years ago
esto si esta cabron eh...
lecheparavaka 2 years ago
Se ve que Schoenberg cargo con el mundo que dejo Wagner
HatuKagura 2 years ago
O yes, I enjoyed it.
DrMerkwuerdichliebe 2 years ago
before I had only listened to the orchestral version of verklarte nacht, I always wondered how the originial score for sextet was... it's fucking awesome!
eurabio 2 years ago
never thought there would be a day where I would read the comment "fucking awesome" on a schönberg Vid.
Great :D you made my day!!
zZMagicGuyZz 2 years ago 44
well it was about time then hehe
aufwiedersehen
PS i never thought there would be a day a metalfan would read comments on a schoenberg vid
eurabio 2 years ago
I actually only listen to metal (mostly black/death/melodic death etc etc) but I have played the violin for 12 years. Currently im playing the 5th movement of the lalo symphonie espangole! It's an awesome piece (check it out). I also play the piano because i might want to study music
zZMagicGuyZz 2 years ago
@zZMagicGuyZz why would anybody not say fucking awesome? :D
xxAbixx1809 1 year ago
This is not a atonal piece of music. Schoenberg wrote this in 1899 and in that period he didn't yet write atonal music. There are a lot of dissonant chords in it, that's true. But it's not atonal. In this period Schoenberg's music sounds a lot like Wagner and even a little bit like Brahms in some ways. He was a great fan of Wagner and Brahms.
Qyph 2 years ago 2
For this composition alone, the sextet already has a unique tonal style that Schoenberg could have developed. Does this composition sound like Beethoven, Tchaikovsky or remind you of any other composers? Cause it sure sounds unique to me.
Just imagine the endless possibilities Schoenberg could have created with the tonal system. It's such a shame he limited himself by switching fully to the 12-tone technique.
IVlr3vil 2 years ago
You truly do not understand Schoenberg to make such a sweeping statement.
The "12 tone technique" is exactly that; a technique. Schoenberg frequently permutated the tone row in many of his compositions. He in no sense "limited" himself (he even returned to diatonic tonality in some of his later works), he created his own unique tonal world; the tonal world which he began to create in the Verklarte Nacht, with it's unique string orchestration.
Counterten0r 2 years ago
dga471, you give atonality too much credit because it hasn't done much to the classical industry. To this day, tonality is still dominating.
My knack with Schoenberg is that his rules are specific so that his compositions equate all 12 tones so they're of similar importance. He could have made the piece with a key and added in sections that were atonal, which he wouldn't do after making the system. Listen to Prokofiev, he did much better.
As far as style goes, it's not limited by tonality.
IVlr3vil 2 years ago
@IVlr3vil
I must disagree. Atonality greatly increased the musical vocabulary. Before the 1900's you could argue the emotional spectrum consisted of happy, sad, fast, slow (major or minor). You often had to know the back story to really understand a piece of music. Atonality gave us evil, confusion, disorientation...emotions simple major and minor had a difficult time expressing.
milo76puck 2 years ago
@milo76puck
That's exactly why I like atonality sometimes - there is something deeper expressed when you express anger through atonality rather than you express just by doing a C minor sturm und drang thing.
dga471 2 years ago
@milo76puck: Tonal music gave us more than happy and sad. One can buy sets of recordings of tonal music that runs the range of human emotions for use in TV and Movies for example. But I wanted to point out that atonality has appeared in music in various ways before the 1900's and all the way back to the Baroque.
Elhardt 2 years ago
In the industry, of course it dominates, since atonality requires a lot more sophistication to enjoy than tonality. Tonality is easier to enjoy since we've been exposed to it since we were babies; most popular music is based on the tonal system, even jazz. I also agree with you that serialism alone is kind of self-limiting, which is why I try to combine serialism with tonality in my own compositions. But at least give Schoenberg some credit for what he has found. It's still an interesting system
dga471 2 years ago
@dga471 Stephen Hough discusses this better. Try googling "Can atonal music move you?"
IVlr3vil 2 years ago
@IVlr3vil
"you give atonality too much credit because it hasn't done much to the classical industry."
1. art is not all about industry, for musical industry you have the backstreetboys"
2. if it wasn't for Schoenberg maybe there would be no classical industry at all, just bad copies of Wagner...
eurabio 2 years ago
You seem to not agree that music has intrinsic value; it only has value from what the listeners think and feel about it. I do not agree on this point, as I believe that any kind of music has value. Although we can't precisely determine how high the inherent value is, it still has value. And we all seem to agree that Beethoven has a lot of value, and even that Louis Armstrong was a great jazz musician. This is why I believe introducing people to Schoenberg isn't a bad thing.
dga471 2 years ago
Now the question of whether classical music would still be the "in" thing if we never went down the road of atonality, I say probably not. It would still be pushed aside by popular music, even if we continue to produce works in a new style which is more accessible compared to serialism. As I said, there are many more reasons why orchestral classical music is not mainstream music today.
dga471 2 years ago
Comment removed
dga471 2 years ago
So in the end I'm curious, if you were God and you could make things in the musical scene happen the way you wanted, how would you have changed the history of music in the 20th century? What composition style do you think was the better way for Tchaikovsky and Brahms to evolve to? Is it minimalism? Impressionism? World music influences? Neoromanticism? I wonder. Even after serialism went out of fashion, nobody still talks about tonality in the same way people did before Schoenberg.
dga471 2 years ago
I'm not trying to say anything about what should have happened. My issue is not with what people chose to wrote, it is what people chose to promote. Like I said, students were literally forced to write serialist music because it WAS the way forward as far as anyone was concerned. It's not like it was a voluntary exploration, it was a flat out tyrannical decision. 12 tone/serialist pieces were being forced on the public and completely burned bridges for composers in the 20th century.
Azshmo 2 years ago
And today, they STILL put "avant garde" 20th century pieces in between Beethoven and Brahms so that people cant leave after intermission because they dont want to hear something. Nevermind that they paid for their ticket, we're doing them a favor by exposing them to something that they dont know that they like yet, right?
It's a load of crap. Atonality didnt wasnt merely explored, it was mandated, and no one wants to take a step back and say "whoops. We were wrong."
Azshmo 2 years ago
My point being: tonality wasnt embraced again. It was reluctantly allowed back in because atonality couldnt hold the fort down like everyone supposedly knew it would. We still refer to anything remotely expressive and tonal with full harmonies as "neo-romantic," making no attempt to hide the fact that we're labeling it as "already done."
Azshmo 2 years ago
Orchestras wont play new music if it doesnt have the "edge" of contemporary music, despite the fact that composers today are more than capable of writing music that people would love next to the "great masters" instead of just being able to say things like "hmm. That was very interesting."
Azshmo 2 years ago
The turn of the 20th century essentially marked the moment where Western Classical Music wasnt "the" music anymore. This goes much deeper than we've talked about, and is tied to things like the fact that we hold Mozart's simple melodies above straight forward orchestral accompaniment decidedly above broadway musicals just because it is "classical music".
It is still socially unacceptable to disregard atonality, and more than ok to refer to all tonality as rehashed and outdated.
Azshmo 2 years ago
So the problem here isn't an aesthetic one, it's purely a publicity one (as well as academic trends)? Do you believe Schoenberg has any worth as a composer? I just want to know.
As for myself, I believe it's not acceptable to disregard atonality, but it's also not acceptable to say tonality is outdated. Some composers require more sophistication and a longer attention span so we can enjoy them.
dga471 2 years ago
Even for some late Romantic stuff - do you realize how hard it is for some people to enjoy Mahler, although it's really tonal? From my personal experience, when I was young I thought the last two movements of the Elgar cello concerto were long, rambling, and only vaguely "nice" (since they use a style very different from something like the Dvorak concerto). But now I recognize how great music it is. Then I graduated to Mahler, then Prokofiev & Stravinsky, and finally the serialists.
dga471 2 years ago
The fact is, it's not that Schoenberg isn't enjoyable, it's actually the case that Schoenberg is harder to enjoy (but can be enjoyed, genuinely), and that a lot of people stop their musical appreciation at tonality. That's not something wrong, it's just a fact.
Conductors put new pieces between Beethoven and Brahms because they hope they can help the audience expand their listening repertoire.
dga471 2 years ago
If we never helped to introduce new works and styles, then we would keep playing a very limited list of pieces, such as Beethoven's 5th, 1812 overture, and Rachmaninov 2nd. What's wrong with introducing new music, both tonal AND atonal? While musical elitism is wrong, I think it's also equally dumb to say that anything non-tonal is crap.
dga471 2 years ago
Lastly, if you think putting in contemporary atonal music between brahms and beethoven is cheating people's money, how about if we publicize a concert for Beethoven's 5th and Tchaikovsky 1st, and put in Schubert's Unifinished in between? A lot of people would come for Beethoven and Tchaikovsky, but of course they would be "forced" to listen to a still good, but not as crazily popular work.
dga471 2 years ago
Well, for starters, I cant tell you whether Schoenberg has worth as a composer because art has no inherent value. We give it meaning.
Regarding "harder to enjoy," the human brain is capable of enjoying a multitude of things for a wide variety of reasons. One reason is familiarity. Another might be the association with being "cultured." The fact that Schoenberg can be enjoyed says very little.
Azshmo 2 years ago
Regarding your comment on "helping" to introduce new styles, I dont see how that makes any sense. No one was "helping" Mozart or Beethoven or Tchaikovsky, and that certainly doesnt mean they werent doing anyting new. Again, you are for some reason suggesting that were it not for atonality, we'd still be playing nothing but 18th and 19th century music.
I dont think I said anything non tonal is crap, I'm not sure why you're bringing that up.
Azshmo 2 years ago
Regarding your comment Schubert in between Beethoven and Tchaik, I dont know what you're trying to prove. The fact of the matter is that they dont NEED to put Schubert in between Beethoven and Tchaik. In fact they can feature Schubert's unfinished and have a successful turnout.
I honestly have no idea what your point was.
Azshmo 2 years ago
For this point on the Schubert between two other works, I was replying to your point that if someone puts an atonal work between two familiar ones, they are partially cheating on the audience's money and forcing atonality down their throats. I'm trying to argue here that that kind of programming is NOT forcing people, it's trying to expand their taste by introducing new styles.
dga471 2 years ago
I refer to the case of Schubert between Beethoven & Tchaik because it's basically the same thing: if someone programs Schubert ONLY, the turnout might still be good, but definitely less than just Beethoven's 5th, for example. In this case, Schubert is to those people like atonality is for some of us: we're not familiar to it. And believe me, I do know a lot of people who can only listen to very famous classical works like Beethoven's 5th.
dga471 2 years ago
I'm talking about introducing new styles, simply because classical music isn't the "in" thing anymore. Thus familiarity isn't a good measure of whether it's worth to be programmed, because you want to add your audience as well as expand the existing audience's taste.
dga471 2 years ago
Even Rachmaninov was still writing Romantic symphonies in the 1930s. How about Holst? Britten? So many things happened during the first half of the 20th century. Atonality helped to colour the scene, it didn't halt it.
And if it did, you can't then say atonality is "crap." What reasoning have you put forward for this? When I said music critics are respecting atonality, I'm just countering your statement that nobody talks about atonality anymore. The fact is that nobody ever denounced atonality.
dga471 2 years ago
When I said that atonality "gave us a break" from tonality, I am not trying to give a judgment that tonality had no more room to go. I was just stating a historical fact that happened: people became sick of serialism and then embraced back tonality, this time with considering new freshness.
The 20th century didn't see any single unified movement to compose in a particular style. We had the impressionists and neoclassicists, during the time of Schoenberg.
dga471 2 years ago
This is beautiful.
BrandonLeP 2 years ago
Very emotional and atmospheric, I like....
Oktobrmun 2 years ago 5
tonality is awesome, but so is atonality
they complement each other if used right
SpuddCroily02 2 years ago 2
shoulda went atonal
charlescontarini21 2 years ago
why? just so we can completely stereotype an artist into one medium?
khbgkh 2 years ago
Makes you wonder what made him go apeshit
Azshmo 2 years ago 5
he didnt go apeshit. He developed a form of music never before witnessed, probably with the foresight that only geniuses can have to see that the creation of twelve tone was not only the creation of twelve tone, but the birth of a new way of thinking that would lead to the birth of a million new genres.
khbgkh 2 years ago
Yeah... except that all 12 tone music did is halt development within classical music for about 50 years while small minded bald white men with PHDs insisted that music students be literally forced to write using methods of serialism, only to have the whole thing eventually putz out half a century later without any further recognition... and now no one wants to talk about it.
Azshmo 2 years ago 2
you missed my point. Twelve tone wasn't the end. Twelve tone was the beginning of the development of new musical ideas that were until then never even considered based on the idea that it wasn't music. Twelve tone helped to expand the definition of music, for better or for worse.
khbgkh 2 years ago
Not really, since music critics are still out there glorifying Schoenberg while listening to Tchaikovsky and Rachmaninov at the same time. While it was kind of stupid for people to be limited to composing in 12 tones, it doesn't mean the system doesn't have any merit. At the very least, it gave us a break from sentimental Romanticism and made us welcome back tonality with more enthusiasm. Would you seriously have want people to compose like Johann Strauss and Tchaikovsky for the last 100 years?
dga471 2 years ago
Great. Music critics. That's how we define value within music? Give me a break.
You are perpetuating a ubiquitous and illogical notion classical music would have everyone believe that tonality stopped at romanticism. That anything tonal that was to come after romanticism would have been Tchaikovsky and Brahms all over again. That's a load of crap. The fact of the matter is that atonality was wrong about tonality. It was birthed out of an entirely false notion that there was nowhere else to go.
Azshmo 2 years ago
Although music critics aren't our ultimate judges on determining what is worthwhile music, we can't ignore them completely either.
Did I ever say that tonality stopped at romanticism? I also disagree that atonal was the only way to go. I said that was "stupid". But I do believe that atonality was ONE way to go. You see Liszt, Wagner and his progressive friends putting in all these ultra-chromatic chords, then it's not surprising that someone decided to do away with the system.
dga471 2 years ago
is this done with the twelve tone row?
harryspoonpotter 2 years ago
no.
gustovero 2 years ago
Luckily, no. And it really makes you appreciate tonality doesn't it?
IVlr3vil 2 years ago
Magnific this composition!!!!! I will be Schoenberg!!!!
LordHalfeld 2 years ago
omg I fucking <3 this piece.
I want to play it again! D:
KokiriMentat 2 years ago
vos sos un pelotudo creido conchaetumadre...
seguro que no tocas una mierda culorroto.
Garnica te come el rosquete... sos un goma!
jazzeldestripador 2 years ago
Don't apologise for where you split it. I am just grateful that I discovered Schoenberg today.
AgamemnonAtreides 2 years ago 3
un poquito cansino el dodecafonismo, no?? aunque esta composicion es magnifica
ServidorDeNadie1986 2 years ago 2
que es cansino?