A 'Spiritual' Resurrection Makes JW Jesus Into Lucifer/Beelzebub

[nogogma]

the resurrection is myth ! 

[Coveysdreams]

that's what I think he would say..

:-)

Ok that's what I would say..

[Coveysdreams]

Oh Thomas You Doubter. How can you know God's Love So Well and Yet, you believe nothing your senses, tell you show you?

These senses limit me to a fool to be fooled if allowed, I know God's Love and I share it willingly and his Wisdom and Intelligence to step one step forward from this animal flesh, It gives me freedom and gives if I allow it, to imprison me within my own hell. I do what, with God's blessing given to See and Hear and no through wisdom, nothing is greater then giving, God's love.

[Coveysdreams]

I upset my friend becasue I was in my 20's and young, maybe I had something to prove on some level though I don't feel that was the case. I used to learn and then question others in front of my freind whom we worked together and did everything together for 3 years. My difficulty was their own Bibles so I used to carry both, everywhere and compare openly. I didn't do this to offend, I just feel the emotions were not becasue of me, it was from themselves, within.. I love them, always will.

[Enoch2]

@Coveysdreams Wow, still reading all your comments! Thanks :)

As for all the side notes, I will try to do fewer of those in the future. I don't want you to have to do too much work...I was wondering about that...thanks!

If you compared the KJV with the NWT then maybe you know about Rev 1. In v. 8 the Almighty says "I am Alpha and Omega", in v. 11, it is JESUS who says "I am Alpha and Omega" (read vs. 10-18).

Guess what? In the NWT they take out Jesus saying, "I am Alpha and Omega"...

[Coveysdreams]

Just copy paste this in the URL above leaving the youtube

/watch?v=tLHPATskmBc

Wow, amazing, It's an older camera, it's low quality and not even close to being their in person but still...wow.

[Coveysdreams]

Enoch2, I seen a small meteorite fall from the South and glimpsed it breaking into pieces and then North I looked and seen the same but this time as it lit the sky and shattered to pieces, I clearly was looking in the direction.

Recently, Yesterday Morning, I seen the sky was on Fire. I glimpsed it, grabbed my camera and snapped a picture, then while recording, ran to my room, almost got struck by lightning, I was tingling, I ran outside and watched the sun rise and a storm, sorry for swearing..

[Coveysdreams]

lol, I THOUGHT That was my phone and paused, AGAIN..lol

to funny..

sounds like the special ring for family..

to funny..

imagine I answered and you were their...lol

anyway..

continue..

[Coveysdreams]

Quit making me pause, it's to much work...lol

I like to read your side comments that pop up..

it's ok, some might lose attention span if you pause, I'll Pause..

:-)

[Coveysdreams]

"Son, Do you know they bury their dead feet first?"

I never laughed so hard and so long... I love my Dad's innocence even at later age..but he never closes his mind, it stays open, even after people crushing his trust. The Problem is he trust words given even knowing we are full of mistakes instead of going to the source for themselves, unless you be deceived with words given from someone you thought was perfect only to find them only human and full of flaws, sometimes doing their best.

[Enoch2]

@Coveysdreams There are no windows on kingdom halls.

I really like your comment to which I'm replying, :-)

[jonnyneo53]

@Enoch2 I have a question for you. How can you explain this text which clearly states that Jesus' resurrection was a spiritual one?:

"Why, even Christ died once for all time concerning sins, a righteous [person] for unrighteous ones, that he might lead you to God, he being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the SPIRIT." (1 Peter 3:18) {Emphasis mine}

[Enoch2]

@jonnyneo53 This is while Jesus was dead in the body that he went and preached to the spirits in prison (see next verse). After this, He rose from the dead bodily.

"Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? But he spake of the temple of his body." Jn 2:19-21, see also vs. 22.

[jonnyneo53]

@Enoch2 "But he spake of the temple of his body."

Well, the Angels who came to earth to fornicate with the earthly woman before the great flood had Bodies as well. But they were still spirits. The 2 angels who visited lot had human bodies, but they were still spirits. In the same way Jesus also, when resurrected as a spirit, had a human body.

"my flesh also shall rest in hope"

Jesus refers to death in certain occations as 'Sleep; rest'. He says his FLESH will REST, as in Die. ....

[Enoch2]

@jonnyneo53 I'm sorry, you didn't directly address either the content of this video or the Scriptures I gave you. Since His flesh rested in hope, this is a promise of His flesh being resurrected. The temple of His body which HE rebuilt proves that He performed His own resurrection, which means that He is Jehovah. You must be born again through faith in Jesus.

[jonnyneo53]

@Enoch2 ... "we are told HIS SOUL went to hell"

The word 'Hell' is translated to english from the hebrew word "Sheol", which refers to the common grave of mankind. A grave, not a fiery pit of torment. We ARE souls: "and the man came to be a living soul" (Genesis 2: 7) This text, therefore, means that Jesus went to his grave, he died. Also, it makes no sense, why would the perfect son of God go to Hell? This is why, Biblically speaking, Jesus' resurrection was a spiritual one. ...

[Enoch2]

@jonnyneo53 The "spirits in prison" Jesus preached to are the angels in hell. Now we know that angels aren't six-feet-under, so you need to change your mind about the JW false teaching about hell...

"For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;" 2 Peter 2:4

[Enoch2]

@j Christ is not the first Adam! The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit (1Cor 15:45). Quickening means 'life-giving'--Life-giving to whom? To me for one thing, but also to His own flesh--He rose from the dead!

Resurrection is for THE BODY:

"But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you." Rom 8:11

[jonnyneo53]

@Enoch2 ... Jesus Christ is called “the firstborn from the dead.” (Col 1:18) He was the first ever to be resurrected to everlasting life. And his resurrection was “in the spirit,” to life in heaven. (1Pe 3:18) Moreover, he was raised to a higher form of life and a higher position than that which he had held in the heavens prior to coming to earth. ...

[jonnyneo53]

@Enoch2 ... He was granted immortality and incorruption, which no creature in the flesh can have, and was made “higher than the heavens,” second only to Jehovah God in the universe. (Heb 7:26; 1Ti 6:14-16; Php 2:9-11; Ac 2:34; 1Co 15:27) His resurrection was performed by Jehovah God himself.—Ac 3:15; 5:30; Ro 4:24; 10:9. ...

[Enoch2]

@j "For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me." Job 19:25-27

"And all flesh shall see the salvation of God." Luke 3:6

"The LORD is my strength and song, and he is become my salvation: he is my God, and I will prepare him an habitation..." Ex 15:2a

[jonnyneo53]

@Enoch2 "I'm sorry, you didn't directly address either the content of this video or the Scriptures I gave you."

I did address ALL the scriptures you told me in my first set of replies. YOU, however, ignored 1 Peter 3:18, and instead of explaining THAT text, you threw other texts at me. You cant cherry pick the Bible.

Now, you brought up 2 Peter 2:4. The problem with the King James version is that it highly mistranslated Bible texts. ...

[jonnyneo53]

@Enoch2 ... The original Greek scriptures did NOT say "but cast them down to hell", its said "but cast them down to Tartarus". The king james translated 'Sheol', 'Gheena", 'Hades' and 'Tartarus' as Hell. When in reality, most of those words have different deffinitions. So how can they all be 'Hell'? And as for John 2:19-22, where you say that Jesus resurrected himself from the dead, thats simply NOT the case. ...

[jonnyneo53]

@Enoch2 ... Such a view would conflict with Galatians 1:1, which ascribes the resurrection of Jesus to the Father, not to the Son. Using a similar mode of expression, at Luke 8:48 Jesus is quoted as saying to a woman: “Your faith has made you well.” Did she heal herself? No; it was power from God through Christ that healed her because she had faith. (Luke 8:46; Acts 10:38)

[jonnyneo53]

@Enoch2 ...Likewise, by his perfect obedience as a human, Jesus provided the moral basis for the Father to raise him from the dead, thus acknowledging Jesus as God’s Son. Because of Jesus’ faithful course of life, it could properly be said that Jesus himself was responsible for his resurrection. ...

[jonnyneo53]

@jonnyneo53 A simple study of history will tell you that the belief of an Immortal soul is pagan and originated with egyptian practices to false gods. The concept of Hell is also a false doctrine. Just go to Wikipedia and research a bit about Hell. This is my last comment to you as you clearly dont want to reason according to sctipture. All im gonna say to you is to research these false doctrines and you'll see for yourself that those beliefs are NOT Biblical. Good day to you.

[jonnyneo53]

@Enoch2 ... However, for 40 days after his resurrection Jesus appeared to his disciples on different occasions in various fleshly bodies, just as angels had appeared to men of ancient times. Like those angels, he had the power to construct and to disintegrate those fleshly bodies at will, for the purpose of proving visibly that he had been resurrected. (Mt 28:8-10, 16-20; Lu 24:13-32, 36-43; Joh 20:14-29; Ge 18:1, 2; 19:1; Jos 5:13-15; Jg 6:11, 12; 13:3, 13). (Concluded)

[Enoch2]

@jonnyneo53 "Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope. For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption." Psalm 16:9-10

This is prophetic of the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 2:26-28, 13:35). Notice how it says "MY FLESH ALSO SHALL REST IN HOPE", His flesh rose from the dead, otherwise what is the hope?

Secondly, we are told HIS SOUL went to hell, that is what 1 Peter 3:18-19 is talking about.

[Coveysdreams]

also, some teachings you spoke of on Jesus resurrection told me it is a new temple given, that is why ( I think it was) Thomas who didn't first recognize Jesus becasue of his new Temple until Jesus spoke to prove.

Their Doctrine, I believe, evolves with time to change as they realize new enlightenment's from the same texts. They have changed their beliefs on aspects but even people who never get to know think others thoughts.

When I told my Dad I was studying with friends of that faith he said..

[Coveysdreams]

Its interesting your portrayals of Jehovah witness's and what those who shared, explained their perspectives taught from their organization. I too have invited and talked and even studied in the past and it seems even in a church such as theirs, their can be division of belief.

I was told such extremes that they wouldn't even eat any meat products without checking the labels for fear of blood used as a filler and even when unknowingly eaten of it, while others of the same say that is extreme.

[999Atwood]

These religions arguing is like a nut talking to a cracker.

[Enoch2]

@999Atwood "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." 1Cor 2:14

I hope you realize that you are under God's condemnation for sin but that He sent His only begotten Son Jesus to die on the cross for your sins, to be buried, and to rise again the third day so now you can receive forgiveness of sins by turning to Him in faith. Read the Bible to get faith.

[999Atwood]

@Enoch2 I personally have never sinned. I use my God given good judgement to avoid it in the first place. This saves the need to cry around in church on Sundays.

[Enoch2]

@999Atwood "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one." Rom 3:10-12

"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" Rom 3:23

And I don't "cry around" in church, my sins are forgiven. Jesus washed me from them in His own blood (Rev 1:5), Hallelujah! I rejoice in the Lord instead :)!

[Enoch2]

@999Atwood And the heavy hitter.... hold on to your hat... "If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." 1 John 1:10

I think you better do some real self-examination in the Light of the Sermon on the Mount (Matt 5-7), to come to the acceptance that you not only sin, but are in a constant state of sin.

[999Atwood]

@Enoch2 No that is your trip, laid on you by religious control freaks. They tampered with that bible at the councel of Nicea.

[Enoch2]

@999Atwood That's ridiculous and antichrist propaganda for those who don't really care about the truth. The 10 Commandments are as basic as it gets, and you can measure yourself by them. I actually got a degree studying issues like this from a secular university and you know what, the Bible as we have it is the Word of God. Real fact from serious study, not just watching youtube videos.

[Enoch2]

Actually it is more basic than the 10 Commandments. Love your neighbour as yourself expresses all of them, including the first Commandment to Love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, b/c God became our neighbour in Jesus Christ. So if you have ALWAYS LOVED your neighbour as yourself, then you will live for ever. But if you haven't, you better turn to the Lord acknowledging you're a sinner and asking Him to forgive you on the sole basis of Christ's death, burial, and Resurrection!

[999Atwood]

@Enoch2 Whoops, you blew a pocket load of money at a university so you could repeat the information they gave you, meanwhile the truth was available for free in Summerian, Ethiopian, African history. Ok I give...God is an American, Jesus snowy white with blue eyes just like in your church magazines. It is just impossible I guess that the white man bent a few ancient stories to his enormous benefit in those early centuries ?

[Enoch2]

@999Atwood Well, that's why reading the Dead Sea Scrolls helped. And the Lord used the Book of Enoch, in the canon of the Ethiopian church, to lead me to Christ. It's not Scripture but the Lord used it in bringing me to the knowledge of the truth. You don't need to go the same route I did of course, but you do need to believe the Bible b/c it testifies of the true Jesus.

I also studied evolution and other religions, which I came to reject. So I didn't blindly accept what 'the man' told me. :)

[Enoch2]

It doesn't matter what the white man wanted to do, GOD is Almighty. Don't glorify the power of man, whether the white or the black man.

"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away."(Matt 24:35, Mark 13:31, Lk 21:33)

C the 3 witnesses?

"And if one prevail against him, two shall withstand him; and a threefold cord is not quickly broken." Ecc 4:12

"This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established." 2Cor 13:1

[999Atwood]

@Enoch2 I want to shop around. Something about christianity & the bible doesn't ring true to me. Way too man contradictions from scripture to scripture.

[Enoch2]

@999 If you want to 'shop around' just be sure you're looking for the truth and not just what will suit you b/c there is a humbling that the Lord does in bringing someone to salvation--in that one has to confess that THEIR way cannot save and leads to death, but that JESUS CHRIST is THE WAY.

Man doesn't want to acknowledge this is so. It's our pride nature.

God bless you as you seek. "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:" Matt 7:7

[DiscosMobileKent]

this last point you make about jesus and his physical appearance ! i recall the bearded one claim he had seen him manifest ..and he had blue eyes ect ect very typical idea of what people believe him to look like but this story proves a point . we don't realy know much about how he looked i think the bible tells us he was nothing special to look at . if god can apear as a burning bush he can be anything ..all this is mind boggling !beyond our primative comprehension or understanding

[Enoch2]

@DMK Yes, it's true what you say. That statement about his appearance is in your favourite Bible book... (Isaiah 53:2) :)

The thing that is amazing to me is that whenever someone tells you a strange belief, like Jesus rose from the dead 'spiritually' but His body dissolved... you can take it to the Scriptures... the Holy Spirit will lead you... and sooner or later you will find verses that show you what their belief REALLY means. In this case, it means their Jesus is Lucifer! Heb 4:12

[DiscosMobileKent]

@Enoch2 indeed ..and he too can take on many forms !!!! as we both know only too well 

[igotJesus88]

they are pre programmed to answer whatever you say... sad

[Katsumotothesamurai]

it is hard to understand because i used to be a jw. and jesus says he has a god. so it is confusing. i try to figure this out but no luck.

[Enoch2]

@Katsumotothesamurai Thanks for commenting. If you are willing, God can reveal to you who Jesus is. When I was born again, in private while praying, I believed that Jesus was what I could understand the Bible saying: The Christ and the Son of God, also One with the Father (John 10:30, Matt 16:16-17). Later I studied and came to know by the grace of God in revealing it to me, what this means about Jesus, that He has the nature of God along with His Father and the Holy Ghost!

[Katsumotothesamurai]

@Enoch2 i believe hes god but why he says that he has a god is confusing to me.

[Enoch2]

@Kats Well that's great! You have a godly channel!

I have a video on the subject, may be tough to understand but hopefully interesting: "The Godhead in the Bible and Creation"

It is only some revelation, we will study the Scriptures our whole lives and grow in understanding. I know for sure that Jesus is eternal and has the nature of God.

Luke 10:22

[msm1876]

@Katsumotothesamurai >>>why he says that he has a god is confusing to me.

Perhaps I can help. If you believe he rose bodily, and as such was still both God and Man when he rose, that would explain how the Father is his God; He's his God according to the fact that he is human.

Check out Revelation 5:1-14. Jesus is with His God there, but is he worshipping Him or being Co-Worshipped and Glorified along with his God?

[Katsumotothesamurai]

@msm1876 it not clear to me whats going on there with jesus and god

[msm1876]

@Katsumotothesamurai Ok, well check verse 13:

“To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power,

for ever and ever!”

You'll agree that in this verse, rather than glorifying his God, Jesus is sitting at the Father's side, being co-praised and co-glorified with him?

[Enoch2]

@Kats Hi, here's a comment I just read from Howie47--really good insight on this subject!

As long as we're still condemning others for their sins. We're probably not saved. It says of the Angels. They wouldn't dare make a single accusation against Satan.  Why? As soon as we accuse any one of anything. We put ourselves under the same light of judgement. And no one can stand before the light of God Almighty's Glory. We all must stand under the shadow of the Almighty. That shadow is. Christ Jesus.