With Corporate personhood, bailouts, tax breaks for the rich and entitlement cuts for the rest, one thing is clear, class warfare has been waged against the middle class by the corporate elite.
There's an interesting video on youtube called Corpocracy that makes the point through art.
@ValkyereHowie You really are stupid! No you didn't, you side stepped it and just asked me to enlighten you. I said admit your ignorance. Say you're ignorant. Damn do I have to spell it out? Admit you are ignorat
@ValkyereHowie What you also don't seem to remember is that those empires usually had a lot of dissent. A lot of people int he upper class who had power who were fighting for power, along with the majority themselves who fought against these empires and they still lasted for hundreds of years. Today? The majority of the people SUPPORT them. Your argument really is "ONE DAY IT WILL HAPPEN" based on the past.
@TheRichsalIey You don't think the rich would turn on each other? And no not all rich people are parasites. Some of them are actually moral people whom would most likely join the middle class. The only reason they are supported at the moment is due to their mind games. Fox News, the Republican Party, their propaganda. The youth however are smart enough to see through this bullshit and lean to the left, the future is only getting more progressive and open minded.
@ValkyereHowie If they did they would've done it. And by overcoming the worse time for America along with numerous others, that collected data alone says things will keep going the way they are. And unlike a Roman empire, with the people's support
@ValkyereHowie Well based on the US's past, I can see it won't since they overcame their greatest "rebellion" they ever had, which was the US civil war
@TheRichsalIey As I said, we have only been on the map for a few seconds, it's like taking a tiny sample of data and then basing a theory off of it, it couldn't be a theory then because it would not be an educated guess if it was based off a tiny amount of data. And the rest of history suggests otherwise...
@TheRichsalIey I expect it to eventually happen because simply history repeats itself, this has happen an uncountable number of times and unpredictable events occur. Right now it seems impossible, but that is only on our extremely limited radar screen. Change happens abruptly and rapidly.
@ValkyereHowie If you believe hstory repeats itself, then surely great empires would have fallen again.. The US, Russia, China, even the UK. They may have taken blows but nothing destroyed them.The US had gone through a horrible Civil war, yet they made it out. China went through about 5 or more civil wars. But hey they exist. Also things would change, only if people agreed with you more. Even the 99% has no actual power. the rich get richer and the poor get poorer
@TheRichsalIey Of course nations aren't going to topple frequently, empires did not topple that frequently back then, but they did. The united Roman empire lasted for four hundred years, the western Roman Empire lasted 507 years and the eastern lasted 1484 years, but where are they today? The US is no where near that and it ALREADY nearly crumbled during the civil war. Give me a break, nothing lasts forever, it is indisputable.
@ValkyereHowie Kings weren't always rich or that powerful. A leader of a mountain village could be considered a king and assassinated. But when you compare that to a Country that has been rich for DECADES and has the world's strongest military by it's side AND the support of it's people, it's not going to work. As I said, the strongest point ever of a rebellion was the Civil war (Which unless you agree with slavery was an injustice war).
@TheRichsalIey True, but still many wealthy and powerful kings were offed. And of course the US hasn't had many rebellions, we are a very young nation and still we've already had the Civil War which nearly wrecked us. You can always say "Well this is a different scenario, the US is strong" you don't think the Roman empire felt that way for a long time? Where are they now? Nothing lasts forever and no one rules forever.
Also, the 16th amendment was never ratified, and therefore isn't actually part of the Constitution. That's why the only Republican candidate I'm willing to vote for, under any circumstances, is one who I can trust to do everything within his power to end the IRS, and that's Ron Paul. If the Republican party nominates Romney, Gingrich, or Santorum, I'll have no choice but to vote against the Republican party in the general election... and I know many other people who feel the same way.
Stealing is a sin. Envy is a SIN. It displeases Almighty God and causes wars and thefts. To run around and make people give their money is STEALING. That's why the Lord is not blessing us. Stop calling it "paying a fair share" and call it for what it is-THEFT!!!!!!!!!!!!!'
We need to repent and say we're sorry for trying to STEAL from people and figure out how to put this country back the way it is supposed to be.
@ValkyereHowie And you're wrong...again. if the prisoners were in charge, they would simply work together to kill every guard and get out, and every prison would do this. They don't. Unless you're going to tell me that all prisoners enjoy serving years or life sentences.
You're just pissing in your pants kid. Did you buy something this week? A percentage of that went into my pocket
@ilIuminaughty Of course there is no point in breaking out as eventually they would just be caught again and serve a worse term but yes essentially they DO run the jail. Numbers do out power weaponry eventually and this is a perfect case example. Prison guards know who are really in charge and when riots occur the prison guards don't shit their pants for nothing, it's because their power is really the ILLUSION that they have power.
@ValkyereHowie They do not have power. Again, if they did, they'd escaped. Your logic is flawed. Also there were more protestors than police, yet the police aren't overpowered nor thrown out.
The time will never come. They had their chances thousands of times. Thing is, not only are they easily outpowered and outnumbered, but most of them support us. So you keep thinking of your impossible delusions, while I live in the real world.
@ilIuminaughty They very easily could break out of jail, but of course they were eventually just be recaptured and serve worse time, this is according to the guards themselves. If the protesters became angry enough, yes they very well could crush police forces just by shear numbers. What happened at the Alamo? Shear numbers will eventually topple superior fire power, it is historical fact. Believe what you like but it doesn't alter reality, and the reality is that things are ALWAYS changing.
@ValkyereHowie You know how long it would be for them to be recaptured?
Also why would they care if they served a longer time? They control it right? They can break out again. You really just proved they don't don't control everything.
Also it's clear if you think warfare today is based solely on numbers. It isn't. The reality is, I've been in power, I'm in power, I'm staying in power. And you're supporting me as an unbeknownst. Everything you do feeds my wealth.
@ilum They would have freedom for quite a while, but eventually they would be caught and then serve an even worse sentence. They could probably continue to do this until they were kept in solitary confinement when which of course it would be impossible. But yes they could over run the jail any moment they wanted to. But there is no point in breaking out when inevitably you will be caught and serve a worse sentence. It's not solely on numbers, but numbers do play a huge role in everything.
@ValkyereHowie They obviously don't run the jail if they are afraid of all those restrictions. Otherwise they'd break out and have some good time of freedom if they were ever caught again they'd repeat it. But they don't. They have NO control.
And numbers? Puh lease. You put 1000 US civilians against 100 US soldiers and their toys, the soldiers would win. And they are on MY Side. Also as of now, we have the numbers. Everyone is supporting us. Hence obama/romney will win :)
@ilIuminaughty I already pointed out that it would be a pointless escape because eventually they would be put in solitary confinement. But yes they could kill any and all of the guards in a prison at any given moment they wanted to. This is the opinion OF THE GUARDS. Lol the rich may have a lot of power but the one thing they DO NOT have is numbers. They may be able to fool the public, but in a forward confrontation they would be annihilated.
@ilIuminaughty Anyways your obviously not a member of the wealthy elite rank or you wouldn't be wasting your time arguing with a peon like myself. And if by some crazy chance you were rich at all it would just go to show how the end is nigh if all wealthy are anywhere is thick as yourself.
@ValkyereHowie They have solitary confinment for EVERY prisoner? Do you know how long it usually takes to recapture just one prisoner? Evidence as to why the prisoners are not in control. Because as you said, the power above them would recapture them and put them right back in. You've killed your own argument
@ValkyereHowie Whatever makes you sleep at night. Truth is with my ability to do anything i'v ewant, I've already done it. And I like taking pot shots at the weak. Like throwing rocks at a chimp in a zoo. It's entertainment when I'm flying around the US. ;)
You know I'm right about everything. We have numbers. We power. You have nothing. And the internet you're using is actually putting money in my pocket. Thanks for your support!
@ilIuminaughty Lol I love how you THINK you have numbers. You have much, no doubt, but that is the one thing you do not have. The only reason the rich "have the support of the public" is because the average person is stupid and easily swindled, the day the idiots are disillusioned is the day the wealthy fall. Your arrogance shall be your down fall.
@ilIuminaughty The fact you forget to mention is the day a rebellion occurs all of the political facts you just mentioned go out the window. Politics only have strength if you bow down to them, same as laws and same as the government. And if your controlling everything I supposed you guys came up with the Buffet rule? And you brought Hitler to power? And you ended slavery even though it cost you billions. And you control the rate at which the Earth orbits? Lol your not all powerful.
@ilIuminaughty The idea that a rebellion is impossible is just your opinion. The facts point toward the concept that greater inequality and growing inequality results in social unrest and eventual upheaval.
@ilIuminaughty Yes indeed it is just your opinion, partially because your excessively arrogant and partially because your afraid. So of course you would not be comfortable even imaging a scenario in which the people woke up and in acted social justice. We are slowly coming closer and closer. The Occupy movements and 99% concept didn't even exist until very recently. Change begins slow but snow balls and goes into effect rapidly.
@ilIuminaughty Lol your arrogance shall be your down fall indeed. The thing is, things that seem improbable now often become reality. For hundreds of years it would have seemed like a ridiculous impossibility to the moon, yet now it is not. The wealthy will fall one day, they will most likely be killed due to social frustration. In all probability it won't be this generation or the next but eventually it will occur and your great grand children will fall.
@ValkyereHowie Your downfall is already a fact. I've already won. we've stayed in power and have the support of MILLIONS.
Anything is possible? Pigs will fly? God will suddenly exist? Everyone will be as rich as me? Get a life kid. Read a book. One that isn't fiction and get out of the movies.
Also my great grandchildren would never fall. Because there is a plan to extinct you. And you are aiding it. Everytime I bring you here, you raise my stock. I win.
@ilIuminaughty Lol my downfall? The funny part in this is that we poor already have little, the only people who can significantly fall are the rich. And your day will come indeed. As I said MANY thing that previously seemed impossible are now history. Abolishing slavery, flying to the moon, traveling at hundreds of miles per hour, communicating via cables and satellites. Lol extinct the poor? Then I guess you rich will REALLY be fucked. Lol!
@ValkyereHowie Actually you can fall you moron. You can get to the point where you aren't even using an internet, bankrupt, or become a bum. Or the lowest, death. :)
I'm safe here, your illusion of a rebellion is nothing more than a star wars fantasy. we have power, we have numbers, we have control. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. I guess you never heard of what we're doing in terms of making you extinct. I'll let you research that or just let you be ignorant
@ilIuminaughty Lol well if you really do plan on "extincting" us, you are complete and utter fools. Non-existent God forbid the rich had to do handle lowly jobs like crash collection, law enforcement, firefighting, military service. Lol okay, but the funny this is this "illusion", this uproar and backlash the rich suffer called a rebellion has happened MANY times before and will happen again. History repeats itself, the kings are decapitated by the towns people eventually.
@ValkyereHowie Not really. We still will be making money and harvesting the resources of the world for us. A community with less people and more resources > community with more people and less resources
@ilIuminaughty Lol! Let's say there was some type of top secret conspiracy to get rid of the poor. All that means is the rich are incredibly stupid and wish to be forced to do mediocre jobs. It's like a pharaoh killing his slaves... And if that were the case it would only mean a rebellion would be easier as the rich would clearly not be very bright...
@ilIuminaughty Lol! Let's say there was some type of top secret conspiracy to get rid of the poor. All that means is the rich are incredibly stupid and wish to be forced to do mediocre jobs. It's like a pharaoh killing his slaves... And if that were the case it would only mean a rebellion would be easier as the rich would clearly not be very bright...
@ValkyereHowie Things always change right? Well how about the rich actually just getting rid of the poor or turning you into slaves? Your assumption is that change will be better. I bet you voted or supported for Obama under that belief Lol. You also forget that people had a better chance of overthrowing the Government back then than they do now. At least back then they had numbers. Today? Not even close. If they couldn't do it then, there's no way they can do it now
@TheRichsalIey Lol Obama's not great, kinda disappointing, but at least 10x better than captain faggot John McCain. And your right, change often goes for the worse, but still then again that bad turn will not last forever either, eventually the current wealthy will be over thrown it is a matter of the repetition of history, I just hope we do not continue the cycle after that.
@ValkyereHowie It wouldn't matter. One is young and black, the other is old and white. Same difference. both would carry the Iraq and middle eastern wars. So it's pointless. Also what repetitive history are you referring to? I don't ever remember the rich repetitively being thrown out of power
@TheRichsalIey Rebellions have taken out the wealthy through out history. Kings decapitated by peasants, French Revolution, etc. There is a limit on how greedy the wealthy can be before retribution.
The other strongest point was during the 60's (which wasn't NEARLY as strong as the civil war). Of which again no liberation or overthrow of Government or the rich
Does anyone really hate acta/sopa or the NDAA? No because they support people who support it.
This is democracy and the people are already on our side. Most of them forgot about the NDAA and stuff after Obama sang. Just look up that video and see their support. We've won.
Yeah 'anything' could be possible. A talking pig could fall out of the sky with wings and give the world cancer's cure. Not impossible, but not probable.
@ilIuminaughty The larger the gap between the rich and poor the higher the probability of a revolution. Eventually people get fed up. The wealthy are their own worst enemy with their greed.
@ValkyereHowie There's been a large gap between the rich and poor. NOTHING has happened. What your revolution stems from were more barbaric days. And rebels usually lose without outside help. Unless Russia is going to help you '99%' types, nothing will happen. Be logical and not irrational.
@ilIumi Yes but the gap is larger than ever and still growing WHILE the middle class and poor are shit on with unemployment and wage REDUCTION while the rich only become richer. It's disgusting. Thankfully we have movements like the 99% standing up and bringing attention to the subject and hopefully one day we will have some sort of social justice. Times change, unexpected events that could never be foreseen occur, you really think the rich can go on forever in their ways without consequences?
@ValkyereHowie Ok 'the gap is larger than ever and still growing' yet I don't see any rebellions. Where are the soldiers and police siding with you? There are NONE. You're delusional to think otherwise. I see arrests and pepper spraying every other day. The Rich have been in control forever and they won't go anywhere. Also I'm just curious. Who do you want as the US President? There's no right or wrong answer but I bet I can show you something that might blow your mind.
@ilIuminaughty Your right, the rich have been in control for a very, very long time. But if it's one thing that has passed the trials of time it's the fact that nothing lasts forever. I can promise you that one day the current rich will be thrown down, I just hope they are not replaced by equally greedy and immoral people.
@ValkyereHowie They won't be thrown down. Otherwise it would have happened. You can't seem to accept that this is your inevitable fate. Your hopes are as bad as people hoping that it will rain money. Come on
@ilIuminaughty Lol your right. Just like slavery was, they would have never imagined the day when black people had equal rights or even a black man was the president yet here we are. Amazing how times can change isn't it?
@ilIuminaughty It is a pretty fair analogy, if you lived back in the slavery days you would have never imagined slavery becoming illegal and taboo, black people gaining the right to vote yet alone the president being black. So it is today, a revolution may seem ridiculous or improbable but that is only due to our very limited perspective.
@ValkyereHowie But, the rich are still rich, and the poor are still poor. You're not even comparing it to a point where the rich weren't 'defeated by rebellions'. Hey no one thought there would be stricter smoking laws, but there are. But how does that change the rich being rich and the poor being poor? Not at all.
@ilIuminaughty It's a perfect analogy of how rapid change occurs. Right now it does seem possible at all for a revolution or a redistribution of the wealth, but the same can be said for slavery, as you pointed out smoking and MANY other things. Slavery was around for longer than imaginable and yet here it is today nearly completely decimated, times change, people change and unforeseeable events occur.
@ValkyereHowie But that isn't equating to the fact that it didn't deter the ones in power. I don't care what you think, but the fact remains the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor. People will do what we want. It's always been like that. Always will. Seeing as how it's been thousands of years since the rich have been in power, i doubt any change will happen. Never will. The army is on my side. They'll shoot you before they'd ever THINK of shooting me
@ilIuminaughty Slavery was also alive for thousands of years. Now? Not so much. The change happened abruptly and rapidly. Nothing lasts forever and if you truly believe that ANYTHING will last forever then your just silly.
@ValkyereHowie But the Rich were still rich and the poor are still poor. Modern day weapons are different from the old. But the rich are still rich and the poor are still poor. Vehicles, clothing all sorts of such. But the rich are still rich and the poor are still poor. So.... Deal with it. We've won. You're my property.
@ilIuminaughty Again you fail to recognize the analogy. Slavery was also around for thousands of years, now completely deceased in most affluent countries. Swords were around for a hell of a long time. Kings rules for ages. The rich have been dethroned before, kings have been murdered and so one day the rich will be dethroned again.
@ilIuminaughty You are truly idiotic if you think ANYTHING will "never change". The rich are not demi-gods. People are imperfect and no matter how out powered we are it gets to a point where greater numbers supersedes fire power even if you did have the military on your side. A perfect example are prisons. At the end of the day, the prisoners are actually the ones in charge. If they wanted to they could kill the guards at any given moment simply due to out numbering them so massively.
@ValkyereHowie Will pigs fly? Will hell freeze over? Will there be definitive proof of the afterlife? Will elves suddenly exist? Never.
You are idiotic and you sound like those Christian nuts I deal with.
Your entire argument is based on a VERY bad assumption with no hard evidence. Unless cops start rebelling (which they won't) or anything you said will happen happens, it's bull.
Too funny...the whole time the OWS vermin were camping out doing nothing...they could have been online learning...for free. Anything. Language. Supply Train. Personal Hygiene. Whatever. Instead they were whining that I'm supposed to keep working to pay them to do more nothing? Do you know what else is amazing? I worked all day today and was nice to everyone I met...and I'll be darned...no cop beat me down. Wow, how about that?
There's a lot to be said about this, such as the emphases on 'liberal' versus 'conservative' and the promotion of 'isms', but I'll focus on one fun fact: federal income taxes in their current form are unconstitutional for most. Congress has the power to regulate interstate commerce and collect income tax, but my paycheck always came from within the state where I lived and worked. This means with the exception of federal possessions (Puerto Rico, embassies, etc I think), it's the state's money.
OK.1. first off this pure propaganda lets just get that out of the way.
second both the democrats and republicans are the same thing but with a different masks and tactic's to get votes,but they always have the same agenda personal gain through private interest finance stop trying to blame one side ore the other it doesn't help the country.
3.the altemante of the country is simple negative converging interest lead by the monopoly national banks and there friends Corporatism
Another thing liberals don't understand is, as far a redistribution of wealth, is how are we to trust those in the government to actually be honest with our money, i.e. liberal democrat Charlie Rangel, Anthony Weiner, Barney Frank, etc. how can we trust them, to redistribute the wealth, and why do liberals think the government should have that power to redistribute wealth.
@Highlandenterprises I love how you solely blame the liberals and Democrats for corruption just like "fair and balanced" Faux News. Government is not perfect and I wouldn't trust it with everything. But I would definitely trust government more than large corporations or extremely wealthy people looking for further riches.
The thing liberals fail or choose not to see, is that continually raising upper class taxes causes nothing but inflation. By raising upper, while lowering middle class taxes, the government that is acclaimidly trying to "level the playing field", is actually causing prices to raise. Because the money companies are losing in taxes has to be compensated for somewhere. Otherwise they cant raise wages, hire on more people thus creating jobs, or lower their prices for middle class families.
I understand everything you said about taxation, but the original constitutional model, in my opinion, is not adequate in todays global marketplace. The tariffs that we would levy today would not be so much on whole goods or services imported but rather portions of goods. The value added by our outsourcing labor is minimal compared to the raw materials(export) and the marketing/retail portions of the production cycle. Is there another constitutional method you can tell us? (NOT Sarcasm)
You bring up some relatively good points, but the key issue that Zo didn't really talk much about but has touched on in the past is that spending is out of control. Bill Whittle has an excellent video detailing the Entitlement madhouse. That said, as far as taxes are concerned, if we got back to what spending is ACTUALLY Constitutional (which Entitlements are not), then we could start looking at cutting taxes altogether on personal income.
@diskpanic I agree with that whole heartedly. My lingering question is taxation. I am studying Economics as an undergrad right now and the income tax is terribly ineffiecient (not to mention against the framers intent). What I can't decide on is how to restructure it (fairtax, flattax, return to tariffs,....). Any ideas on that?
Yes, Mr. Zonation, I shall do my best with the assignment: Explain liberty, sensible government and the rule of law to Leftist knuckleheads, and remind them how Hitler was one of them, not one of us.
You do not assist job creation by giving "job creators" money BEFORE they create jobs. You do not alter reality by making up conspiracy theories that assist your "point" and you do not make progress by going backwards. Deregulation you say? We tried that, google "the triangle waist factory fire 1911" to find out why we realized regulations are a good idea. And if your such good Christians I would think you would choose lives over profits every time.
So asking rich people to pay the SAME amount in taxes as the average American would be class warfare? Then use a redherring saying "there is no fair tax". Then say it is illegal for the federal government to collect taxes. WOW! Sure we can go down that road... And end up like Mexico. Our social programs (schools, road construction/upkeep and such) are what make us great. Ignorant conservatives are what make the rest of the world hate us. Shove your conspiracy theories and wake up.
@ValkyereHowie Our social programs do not make us great. Our Constitution makes us great. Our values of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness make us great, not increasing government power and their ability to jack us of our income.
@TheGodYouWishYouKnew Your right, we should just eliminate the entire taxation system, when people get old they can just die off like nature intended. And schools, police departments, fire departments? Psssh. Who needs those? We'll just save ourselves from the burning buildings and deal with our heart attacks on our own. Roads? We'll just pave a road form all the dead senior citizens that couldn't afford their healthcare bills. Beautiful place it would be wouldn't it?
@ValkyereHowie Government's job is not to provide for us. It is to protect us so that we may provide for ourselves. Police and Fire Departments, as well as roads are examples of the government providing the protection that we need to provide for ourselves. Senior citizens have a better chance of living under our current system than under ObamaCare. Those aren't the things that Conservatives want to get rid of and you know it. I love that strawman argument that you guys use.
@TheGodYouWishYouKnew Scott Walker has shown what conservatives want to do to our social programs. Shit on firefighters and police taking away their bargaining rights (hence the word RIGHTS) These are social programs. These could be considered "socialistic". Obama care would make everyone pay their fair share in healthcare and no one could take advantage of the system. You just don't like it because Obama suggested it. I need no strawman.
@TheGodYouWishYouKnew And if you were unaware, we have one of the world's worst healthcare systems available. Europe is soaring past us. Even Cuba has MUCH greater healthcare than we do. Our healthcare is ALREADY on a pull the plug on grandma system, it's called capitalism. Health insurance companies will do ANYTHING they can to make your claim invalid, even if it results in your death JUST to save a few bucks. It is truly evil.
@ValkyereHowie - You went from arguing that Conservatives don't want to pay taxes, therefore don't deserve police and fire protection, to arguing that they want to take away police and fire pensions. Those are two different arguments. As far as people with money getting better health care than people without money, that still happens in a National Health Care system, so please do your research. And if you believe that Cuba has a better health care system than us, you're nuts...
@TheGodYouWishYouKnew We should pay our firefighters and police MORE not less. They RISK THEIR LIVES. GOP also wanted to destroy Medicare but that went over really well.. XD Yes true, BUT at least the poor still get reasonable healthcare, not like here. And if you really doubt Cuba's healthcare system just talk to some of the 911 first response units that our healthcare system fucked in the butt and were actually able to get service in Cuba.
@TheGodYouWishYouKnew Conservatives are just puppets for the rich. The GOP is ran but elites for the elites. Romney makes $57,000 a day on investments, can you really tell me he is in touch with the average American? No.. No you can't.
@ValkyereHowie LOL, you are so naive. Do you think Millionares Barack Obama, Joe Biden, Bill/Hillary Clinton and Nancy Pelosi are in touch with the average American? Between pay and benefits, Police and Firemen get paid just fine, we don't need to pay the more. Besides, your Liberal buddies are the same ones always protesting the Police, so stop with the fake support. Again, burn your copy of "Sicko." That whole thing was propaganda. Ya think Cuba would do that for everyone?
@TheGodYouWishYouKnew They are definitely much more in touch than Romney, Obama had a pretty normal childhood. Romney? Nope. Police and firefighters should make between 80-120k in my opinion, if we can afford to pay CEOs their BS checks than we can treat people whom risk their lives for us with at least a fraction of the support. I support cops, just not ones that abuse their power. Lol yes propaganda, totally. COMPLETELY UNLIKE FAUX NEWS! And if it were propaganda what would be it's purpose?
@ValkyereHowie No politician is in touch with you, saying Obama is more in touch with you than Romney is like saying that Stalin was a better guy than Hitler. We pay cops but we do not pay CEOs. CEOs are paid privately. If you don't know that, then I don't know why I am arguing with you. What would be the purpose of Michael Moore's propaganda? Seriously? How about to get National Healthcare. I never questioned the moon landing and nobody thinks the poor are the problem.
@TheGodYouWishYouKnew Lol hilarious. Actually WE DO pay CEOs. How might you ask? We buy their companies' products. It is nearly impossible to simply stop buying from every company that pays their CEOs absurd checks so taxation would be the cure for this issue. The GOP tries to blame poor people. LOL why would Michael Moore want national healthcare in the first god damn place if our healthcare was good to begin with? He wouldn't. Your logic craps upon itself.
@TheGodYouWishYouKnew The thing you conservatives fail to realize is there is a fixed amount of money in circulation. We cannot print more due to inflation. And thus one person being ridiculously, filthy rich takes away potential income a less fortunate person could be making, in other words the only thing you can really do with money is redistribute it. And when certain people make gross amounts of cash for little to no reason cough cough CEOs cough cough Mitt Romney it is only logical.
@TheGodYouWishYouKnew It's hilarious because all of your conservatives conspiracy theories are easily debunked with the quick question why? Why would people fake the moon landing? Why would you think the poor are the problem when the RICH are the only ones with enough power to have any real effect. Your political beliefs are the result of ACTUAL propaganda, Fox News. Paid for by rich people in the attempt to improve circumstances for people with already outstanding circumstances.
@ValkyereHowie So asking rich people to pay the SAME amount in taxes as the average American would be class warfare?
___________
Okay, I have to comment here. Do you have ANY IDEA how much the rich actually pay? And I don't mean in percentages, I mean in HARD DOLLARS. The top 1% pay for over 50% of the country's tax obligations, so maybe you should just say THANK YOU. This whole argument about percentages is nothing but BS. Tax rates are different for different sources of income... (cont)
@mbukow01 Um... NO. The only fair way to view it is relatively, if you can afford to contribute a lot more you should. Romney made 42 mill and paid 6 in taxes. I don't care if he pays more taxes than I do dollars and cents wise he only pays LESS THAN HALF percentage wise. That's like saying a fat person lost more weight than me because he had more to lose to begin with. It doesn't matter once you realize the percentages.
@ValkyereHowie you lack an understand of the tax code. Your effective tax rate (where Romney is paying 15%) is different than your marginal rate. Almost 98% of the country has an effective tax rate LOWER than 11.9%, so they actually pay less than Romney does. Within that 98% are the 48% I referenced. Those individuals aren't necessarily dirt poor, as you suggest. In fact, many of them are typical middle class Americans who are able to lower their effective rate down to almost 0%.. (cont)
@mbukow01 That is simply not true. Believe me, any middle class person that can pay taxes does. My mother makes in between 30-40k and pays a good deal in taxes. And your effective tax rate is just bullshit because I know NO ONE whom pays 0%. You are either just making shit up at this point or horribly informed.
@ValkyereHowie I'm not making anything up. I'm a Certified Financial Planner and my wife is a CPA. I think I tend to know a thing or two about taxes. I'll send you a quick message to explain my point in detail because it's a bit lengthy.
@ValkyereHowie (cont) a family of 5 in NJ making $80k a year, for instance, after taking deductions for mortgage interest, child tax credits, their standard deduction, etc. can lower their rate SIGNIFICANTLY, paying an effective tax rate below 5%. Again, this isn't an argument of what your federal income tax BRACKET is, it's what you ACTUALLY pay in taxes after filing your return.
@ValkyereHowie ... you and everyone else pays the same cap gains rates, the same rates on dividends and interest and when it comes to ordinary income rates, the "RICH" pay MORE than the poor. The IRS recently concluded that 97% of the American population pays LESS THAN 11.9% in effective taxes. Every taxpayer uses standard or itemized deductions, credits, etc. to lower their marginal rate. Oh, and 48% of the population pays NOTHING, so if you want a "fair share," how about you start there?
@mbukow01 LOL here we go "48% pay nothing" I wonder why? Maybe it's because they are so dirt poor they cannot afford to take care of themselves yet contribute. Many I will do this to themselves. BUT there are countless people whom work their asses off to no avail. And personally I would have a 40% tax on anyone who makes more than 1-2 million a year, simply because they can afford it and if I were that good off I wouldn't bitch and moan.
@ValkyereHowie Secondly, you miss another point when you say the "wealthy can afford to pay more." First, you ignore an economic concept called the law of diminishing marginal utility. Basically, if you penalize someone enough (via taxes) they look to move elsewhere to avoid that "penalty."
@mbukow01 If it was effective through-out the entire country they would have no choice. Unless they left the US which would show just how truly patriotic they were. If you are not willing to contribute to the system you don't deserve to live here. And our high taxes are what makes us great. Why does Mexico suck? Shitty roads, shitty police, shitty fire their social programs suck, very simple really. It heavily reduces the average quality of life.
@ValkyereHowie that's exactly what happened in Great Britain back in the 70's. In fact, George Harrison's song, The Taxman, was all about the situation. They decided to tax investment income over 90%. What happened was, investors in GB moved their assets offshore. I would argue that since the wealthy pay for the overwhelming majority of the resources we all use, taxing them in a punitive fashion would result in a situation where you can potentially lose the revenue entirely. (cont)
@mbukow01 We are not talking about 90%, we are talking about 40%. That is a redherring at best. I do agree there is great wastefulness in the government but there is also such waste in the private sector if not more so. And the government is not useless. People act like giving the government money is just a complete and utter waste and it is completely incompetent. I disagree, we have a great military, police force and firefighters and they are no waste, the government can be successful.
@ValkyereHowie (cont) and it's not that they're "unpatriotic." Let's face it - we ALL file our taxes every year with one goal - reduce the amount we might have to pay. To say otherwise is simply dishonest. I also believe that the government wastes a ton of the tax revenue on useless things. Why wouldn't a wealthy person's contribution to a charitable cause be more patriotic that simply giving it to a government that has shown no ability to be responsible with that money?
@ValkyereHowie It's a dangerous line to walk in our country to tell people - work hard, bust your butt and be successful, but don't be TOO successful. Also, you can tax the income of the top 1% of the country at 100% and it still wouldn't pay for more than 3 months of the federal budget.
Your numbers are also off. Romney made $22 million last year, not 42 mil and he paid $3 mil on taxes and donated $3 mil to charity. How much did Obama give to charity last year?
@ArrogantAmerican333 EXACTLY. That's precisely my point and the point of a lot of conservatives. History has even shown that when tax rates in an area or even a country are punitive to the point where people can just pick up and do their "thing" elsewhere, they generally do. Then, 100% of the tax revenue is lost entirely. NJ, my home state is experiencing this with their property taxes. I believe $60 bn in tax rev has left in the last few years because ppl are moving out of state.
@mbukow01 I am not saying 100% I am saying 40. There is a big difference there. You think if we began a 40% tax millionaires and billionaires are just going to give up and be homeless bums on the side of the road? Lol. I mean what is it you are insinuating? And if they leave, well good. They clearly weren't very sincere or disciplined individuals nor patriotic.
@ValkyereHowie First, there are a lot of "millionaires" in this country who live off of Social Security. They saved their entire lives and have built a nest egg. You don't take people on their net worth, you tax them on their income. So, if someone is actually MAKING $1 mil a year, they ARE paying a very high tax rate. First and foremost, they're already in the highest marg. bracket at 35%, then they pay state taxes, local taxes, etc., so they're tax rate is actually higher than 40% as is.
@mbukow01 Yes indeed that loop whole should be fixed, there should be net worth limitations on social security and other such social programs. But we pay local taxes and state taxes as well so that cannot be considered something "extra" that millionaires pay. And I have never heard of or seen a millionaire pay as much as 35%. Entire corporations have been paying $0 for years. It is disgusting and shameful.
@ValkyereHowie .. then, the higher income earners actually LOSE the deductions that most of us all get. They are basically phased out with their income, so their ability to lower their marginal rate is significantly reduced. Whereas a middle class person, or a lower income earner can deduct things like student loan interest, they can take credits that the higher earners can't take, etc.
@mbukow01 I don't see these deduction loses as "true losses" to the wealthy because these are things that would usually otherwise be impossible for low income people to achieve.
@ValkyereHowie I don't think they're "losses" in the sense that a wealthy person needs the deduction, but believe it or not, there are a lot of middle income Americans who lose valuable deductions. Student loan interest is a big one. The phase out for that starts at 55-70k for a single filer. So, you have a lot of college grads who have decent jobs but a boatload of student loan debt who lose this deduction.
@mbukow01 I definitely agree with that, I think we should look at education as an investment. We aren't wasting money educating people we are making them more productive and able to be more efficient overall more efficient in our economic system. Maybe millionaires or people whom make 250k + a year would not need these loans but anywhere in between 100 and 150k annual income we should be okay with education based deductions.
@ilIuminaughty I think he is being to soft on the tea party and those supporting the rich, but I don't see him working hard himself to help the rich. And if you think Romney or Gingrich would be less pro-rich than Obama your just flat out nuts lol.
@ilIuminaughty Sadly that's probably true. It would probably take a full scale bloody revolution to change things, but if everything keeps going like it is I wouldn't be surprised if that were to occur in the future.
There will be no bloody revolution. First of all, the American people agree with Obama and Romney, hence why they vote for him. Second, they wouldn't last a day against the US military. All is going against my plan.
@ilIuminaughty Sadly the average American is so ignorant and uneducated they vote for the upper class policies that harm them. And you seem to forget the US military is a group of middle class people. The mass majority of soldiers are highly under paid.
@ValkyereHowie I am not of the american people. Also the US military will do whatever the President tells them. Which is why they go to Iraq and so forth. If they don't, they get arrested.
@ValkyereHowie Police arrest and beat people everyday. You seem to have too much confidence in some rebellion or revolution. Just look at the occupy wallstreet. See any of those middle class cops standing up for them? Nope. Sorry, you're the minority. You've lost.
@ilIuminaughty If it were a scenario in which the rebellion had confidence and there was a good chance of it winning, believe me MANY would follow. And if there is one thing us poor people are not it is the minority. Obviously you didn't get a very good education your math is horrible! Lol.
@ValkyereHowie There is no scenario. Stop making up scenarios and stupid assumptions, because that's all they are. You don't think for the masses. NO one is willing to follow. NO one is willing to fight. Obama or Romney will do as we want. They're just puppets to us. No matter who you vote for, we will go to war with Iran for resource. We'll "iraq" them. And you can't do nothing about it. Plus the Majority agree.
@ilIuminaughty Lol surely they would have called the scenarios that brought upon the French Revolution "Stupid assumptions." But it happened. When it really comes down to it the material means very little. The rich can try to control us via government but government is only powerful if it is followed. The only power a president has is the power to make others THINK he has power. At the end of the day we are just animals and starve some will over feeding others will cause up roar.
@ValkyereHowie Lol, this is not the French revolution. This is America. The US Military will never side with the common people. They had numerous chances to do so. Iraq, Wall street, whatever. They won't. They do as they're told. Your idea that they're middle class will automatically make them join some poor people not even making a dent, is laughable. The President has power. Everything he's done has been done. Who's gonna stop him? Who has stopped him? No one.
@ilIuminaughty Anything can escalate to the point of revolution. But why am I arguing with some troll whom is probably 12 in his mom and dad's basement.
@ValkyereHowie But it won't. Are you trying to forfeit and throw an insult? Everything I say is fact, you haven't denied or disprove a single thing. You seem like you're upset about it. Just say you've lost and it won't be a rage quit.
@ilIuminaughty Well seeing as you cannot predict the future I'm going to say anything possible and as long as the rich become richer and the poor become poorer the odds only get worse from you.
@Dezidummi WOW!!! How u have just proved your ignorance and should not vote. The taxes you pay at the grocery store are STATE TAXES not income taxes big difference. The governor and legislature of your state control STATE TAXES, not Obama. Please learn a little about the government in which you live, maybe it will help curve your ignorance!!!
@denniscasey5 dumbass.... you actually think the only way the Federal Government collects takes is through income taxes?? go back to the basement, your mom hasn't fixed dinner yet
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With Corporate personhood, bailouts, tax breaks for the rich and entitlement cuts for the rest, one thing is clear, class warfare has been waged against the middle class by the corporate elite.
There's an interesting video on youtube called Corpocracy that makes the point through art.
michaeldantuono 1 day ago
hmm an 80 percent tax rate for billionaires would mean they have at the very least 200 million dollars left....
ccraigd89 1 day ago
professors and their excessive benefits package? LOL I WAS NOT AWARE OF THIS, WHERE'S MY BONUS???
deadhippie61 6 days ago
@ValkyereHOwie
You really don't know do you? No wonder I'm walking all over you. Admit your ignorance and i'll explain everything.
ilIuminaughty 1 week ago
@ilIuminaughty Yes your right, if there are any conspiracies by the rich I probably have no clue as I am not "in the circle". Enlighten me great one.
ValkyereHowie 1 week ago
@ValkyereHowie A few of them are actually out in the open but people are so ignorant i.e. you, they don't know it ;]
Admit your ignorance and I'll explain
ilIuminaughty 1 week ago
@ilIuminaughty Did I not already admit my ignorance?... I guess the rich favor redundancy?...
ValkyereHowie 1 week ago
@ValkyereHowie You really are stupid! No you didn't, you side stepped it and just asked me to enlighten you. I said admit your ignorance. Say you're ignorant. Damn do I have to spell it out? Admit you are ignorat
ilIuminaughty 1 week ago
@ilIuminaughty I am ignorant. There you go, a free boner, no need for viagra.
ValkyereHowie 1 week ago
@ValkyereHowie What you also don't seem to remember is that those empires usually had a lot of dissent. A lot of people int he upper class who had power who were fighting for power, along with the majority themselves who fought against these empires and they still lasted for hundreds of years. Today? The majority of the people SUPPORT them. Your argument really is "ONE DAY IT WILL HAPPEN" based on the past.
TheRichsalIey 1 day ago
@TheRichsalIey You don't think the rich would turn on each other? And no not all rich people are parasites. Some of them are actually moral people whom would most likely join the middle class. The only reason they are supported at the moment is due to their mind games. Fox News, the Republican Party, their propaganda. The youth however are smart enough to see through this bullshit and lean to the left, the future is only getting more progressive and open minded.
ValkyereHowie 1 day ago
@ValkyereHowie If they did they would've done it. And by overcoming the worse time for America along with numerous others, that collected data alone says things will keep going the way they are. And unlike a Roman empire, with the people's support
TheRichsalIey 11 hours ago
@ValkyereHowie Well based on the US's past, I can see it won't since they overcame their greatest "rebellion" they ever had, which was the US civil war
TheRichsalIey 1 day ago
@TheRichsalIey As I said, we have only been on the map for a few seconds, it's like taking a tiny sample of data and then basing a theory off of it, it couldn't be a theory then because it would not be an educated guess if it was based off a tiny amount of data. And the rest of history suggests otherwise...
ValkyereHowie 1 day ago
@ValkyereHowie
So how do you expect them to ever do this when the support is so little for them and they're at their weakest?
TheRichsalIey 1 week ago
@TheRichsalIey I expect it to eventually happen because simply history repeats itself, this has happen an uncountable number of times and unpredictable events occur. Right now it seems impossible, but that is only on our extremely limited radar screen. Change happens abruptly and rapidly.
ValkyereHowie 1 week ago
@ValkyereHowie If you believe hstory repeats itself, then surely great empires would have fallen again.. The US, Russia, China, even the UK. They may have taken blows but nothing destroyed them.The US had gone through a horrible Civil war, yet they made it out. China went through about 5 or more civil wars. But hey they exist. Also things would change, only if people agreed with you more. Even the 99% has no actual power. the rich get richer and the poor get poorer
TheRichsalIey 1 week ago
@TheRichsalIey Of course nations aren't going to topple frequently, empires did not topple that frequently back then, but they did. The united Roman empire lasted for four hundred years, the western Roman Empire lasted 507 years and the eastern lasted 1484 years, but where are they today? The US is no where near that and it ALREADY nearly crumbled during the civil war. Give me a break, nothing lasts forever, it is indisputable.
ValkyereHowie 1 week ago
@ValkyereHowie Kings weren't always rich or that powerful. A leader of a mountain village could be considered a king and assassinated. But when you compare that to a Country that has been rich for DECADES and has the world's strongest military by it's side AND the support of it's people, it's not going to work. As I said, the strongest point ever of a rebellion was the Civil war (Which unless you agree with slavery was an injustice war).
TheRichsalIey 1 week ago
@TheRichsalIey True, but still many wealthy and powerful kings were offed. And of course the US hasn't had many rebellions, we are a very young nation and still we've already had the Civil War which nearly wrecked us. You can always say "Well this is a different scenario, the US is strong" you don't think the Roman empire felt that way for a long time? Where are they now? Nothing lasts forever and no one rules forever.
ValkyereHowie 1 week ago
Also, the 16th amendment was never ratified, and therefore isn't actually part of the Constitution. That's why the only Republican candidate I'm willing to vote for, under any circumstances, is one who I can trust to do everything within his power to end the IRS, and that's Ron Paul. If the Republican party nominates Romney, Gingrich, or Santorum, I'll have no choice but to vote against the Republican party in the general election... and I know many other people who feel the same way.
QuasarX 1 week ago
Is this asshole really suggesting that the tax problem is solely "liberal" problem?
atlballer81 1 week ago
How about ending the Federal Reserve.
Bealeman1 1 week ago
Stealing is a sin. Envy is a SIN. It displeases Almighty God and causes wars and thefts. To run around and make people give their money is STEALING. That's why the Lord is not blessing us. Stop calling it "paying a fair share" and call it for what it is-THEFT!!!!!!!!!!!!!'
We need to repent and say we're sorry for trying to STEAL from people and figure out how to put this country back the way it is supposed to be.
Trimelda 2 weeks ago
Class warfare?.......Fuck.
I spent all this time and money gearing up for a race war and now we are going to have a class war?
Now I gotta go buy all new camouflage....What blends into gated communities? Tuxedos?
smithcas86 2 weeks ago
@ValkyereHowie And you're wrong...again. if the prisoners were in charge, they would simply work together to kill every guard and get out, and every prison would do this. They don't. Unless you're going to tell me that all prisoners enjoy serving years or life sentences.
You're just pissing in your pants kid. Did you buy something this week? A percentage of that went into my pocket
ilIuminaughty 2 weeks ago
@ilIuminaughty Of course there is no point in breaking out as eventually they would just be caught again and serve a worse term but yes essentially they DO run the jail. Numbers do out power weaponry eventually and this is a perfect case example. Prison guards know who are really in charge and when riots occur the prison guards don't shit their pants for nothing, it's because their power is really the ILLUSION that they have power.
ValkyereHowie 2 weeks ago
@ValkyereHowie They do not have power. Again, if they did, they'd escaped. Your logic is flawed. Also there were more protestors than police, yet the police aren't overpowered nor thrown out.
The time will never come. They had their chances thousands of times. Thing is, not only are they easily outpowered and outnumbered, but most of them support us. So you keep thinking of your impossible delusions, while I live in the real world.
ilIuminaughty 2 weeks ago
@ilIuminaughty They very easily could break out of jail, but of course they were eventually just be recaptured and serve worse time, this is according to the guards themselves. If the protesters became angry enough, yes they very well could crush police forces just by shear numbers. What happened at the Alamo? Shear numbers will eventually topple superior fire power, it is historical fact. Believe what you like but it doesn't alter reality, and the reality is that things are ALWAYS changing.
ValkyereHowie 2 weeks ago
@ValkyereHowie You know how long it would be for them to be recaptured?
Also why would they care if they served a longer time? They control it right? They can break out again. You really just proved they don't don't control everything.
Also it's clear if you think warfare today is based solely on numbers. It isn't. The reality is, I've been in power, I'm in power, I'm staying in power. And you're supporting me as an unbeknownst. Everything you do feeds my wealth.
ilIuminaughty 2 weeks ago
@ilum They would have freedom for quite a while, but eventually they would be caught and then serve an even worse sentence. They could probably continue to do this until they were kept in solitary confinement when which of course it would be impossible. But yes they could over run the jail any moment they wanted to. But there is no point in breaking out when inevitably you will be caught and serve a worse sentence. It's not solely on numbers, but numbers do play a huge role in everything.
ValkyereHowie 2 weeks ago
@ValkyereHowie They obviously don't run the jail if they are afraid of all those restrictions. Otherwise they'd break out and have some good time of freedom if they were ever caught again they'd repeat it. But they don't. They have NO control.
And numbers? Puh lease. You put 1000 US civilians against 100 US soldiers and their toys, the soldiers would win. And they are on MY Side. Also as of now, we have the numbers. Everyone is supporting us. Hence obama/romney will win :)
ilIuminaughty 2 weeks ago
@ilIuminaughty I already pointed out that it would be a pointless escape because eventually they would be put in solitary confinement. But yes they could kill any and all of the guards in a prison at any given moment they wanted to. This is the opinion OF THE GUARDS. Lol the rich may have a lot of power but the one thing they DO NOT have is numbers. They may be able to fool the public, but in a forward confrontation they would be annihilated.
ValkyereHowie 2 weeks ago
@ilIuminaughty Anyways your obviously not a member of the wealthy elite rank or you wouldn't be wasting your time arguing with a peon like myself. And if by some crazy chance you were rich at all it would just go to show how the end is nigh if all wealthy are anywhere is thick as yourself.
ValkyereHowie 2 weeks ago
@ValkyereHowie They have solitary confinment for EVERY prisoner? Do you know how long it usually takes to recapture just one prisoner? Evidence as to why the prisoners are not in control. Because as you said, the power above them would recapture them and put them right back in. You've killed your own argument
ilIuminaughty 2 weeks ago
@ilIuminaughty yeah things are always changing. one day the lesser will be the slaves to the rich. Now that's a change
TheRichsalIey 2 weeks ago
@ValkyereHowie Whatever makes you sleep at night. Truth is with my ability to do anything i'v ewant, I've already done it. And I like taking pot shots at the weak. Like throwing rocks at a chimp in a zoo. It's entertainment when I'm flying around the US. ;)
You know I'm right about everything. We have numbers. We power. You have nothing. And the internet you're using is actually putting money in my pocket. Thanks for your support!
ilIuminaughty 2 weeks ago
@ilIuminaughty Lol I love how you THINK you have numbers. You have much, no doubt, but that is the one thing you do not have. The only reason the rich "have the support of the public" is because the average person is stupid and easily swindled, the day the idiots are disillusioned is the day the wealthy fall. Your arrogance shall be your down fall.
ValkyereHowie 2 weeks ago
@ValkyereHowie Oh please. Let's take a look now..
There are NO military or Police officers supporting you (as you said they would because they were middle class)
The US people are pretty much 60% Obama and 40% Romney. Either one wins, they will do our bidding.
The US people were more concerned about losing their internet than our greatest control scheme yet, the NDAA.
It isn't arrogance it's fact. Your blind uneducated assumptions are failures. You've already admit defeat.
ilIuminaughty 2 weeks ago
@ilIuminaughty The fact you forget to mention is the day a rebellion occurs all of the political facts you just mentioned go out the window. Politics only have strength if you bow down to them, same as laws and same as the government. And if your controlling everything I supposed you guys came up with the Buffet rule? And you brought Hitler to power? And you ended slavery even though it cost you billions. And you control the rate at which the Earth orbits? Lol your not all powerful.
ValkyereHowie 2 weeks ago
@ValkyereHowie There is no rebellion. That's what YOU don't get. That's just your belief. Not a fact.
ilIuminaughty 2 weeks ago
@ilIuminaughty The idea that a rebellion is impossible is just your opinion. The facts point toward the concept that greater inequality and growing inequality results in social unrest and eventual upheaval.
ValkyereHowie 2 weeks ago
@ValkyereHowie With all the circumstances I brought up, is it?
Also if you actually have a brain to form memories, you'd see I already answered this about 4 times.
ilIuminaughty 2 weeks ago
@ilIuminaughty Yes indeed it is just your opinion, partially because your excessively arrogant and partially because your afraid. So of course you would not be comfortable even imaging a scenario in which the people woke up and in acted social justice. We are slowly coming closer and closer. The Occupy movements and 99% concept didn't even exist until very recently. Change begins slow but snow balls and goes into effect rapidly.
ValkyereHowie 2 weeks ago
@ValkyereHowie No, I stated probability vs possibility. That's why you're so dense. no wonder I control you. :)
ilIuminaughty 2 weeks ago
@ilIuminaughty Lol your arrogance shall be your down fall indeed. The thing is, things that seem improbable now often become reality. For hundreds of years it would have seemed like a ridiculous impossibility to the moon, yet now it is not. The wealthy will fall one day, they will most likely be killed due to social frustration. In all probability it won't be this generation or the next but eventually it will occur and your great grand children will fall.
ValkyereHowie 2 weeks ago
@ValkyereHowie Your downfall is already a fact. I've already won. we've stayed in power and have the support of MILLIONS.
Anything is possible? Pigs will fly? God will suddenly exist? Everyone will be as rich as me? Get a life kid. Read a book. One that isn't fiction and get out of the movies.
Also my great grandchildren would never fall. Because there is a plan to extinct you. And you are aiding it. Everytime I bring you here, you raise my stock. I win.
ilIuminaughty 2 weeks ago
@ilIuminaughty Lol my downfall? The funny part in this is that we poor already have little, the only people who can significantly fall are the rich. And your day will come indeed. As I said MANY thing that previously seemed impossible are now history. Abolishing slavery, flying to the moon, traveling at hundreds of miles per hour, communicating via cables and satellites. Lol extinct the poor? Then I guess you rich will REALLY be fucked. Lol!
ValkyereHowie 2 weeks ago
@ValkyereHowie Actually you can fall you moron. You can get to the point where you aren't even using an internet, bankrupt, or become a bum. Or the lowest, death. :)
I'm safe here, your illusion of a rebellion is nothing more than a star wars fantasy. we have power, we have numbers, we have control. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. I guess you never heard of what we're doing in terms of making you extinct. I'll let you research that or just let you be ignorant
ilIuminaughty 2 weeks ago
@ilIuminaughty Lol well if you really do plan on "extincting" us, you are complete and utter fools. Non-existent God forbid the rich had to do handle lowly jobs like crash collection, law enforcement, firefighting, military service. Lol okay, but the funny this is this "illusion", this uproar and backlash the rich suffer called a rebellion has happened MANY times before and will happen again. History repeats itself, the kings are decapitated by the towns people eventually.
ValkyereHowie 1 week ago
@ValkyereHowie Not really. We still will be making money and harvesting the resources of the world for us. A community with less people and more resources > community with more people and less resources
Har.
ilIuminaughty 1 week ago
@ilIuminaughty Lol! Let's say there was some type of top secret conspiracy to get rid of the poor. All that means is the rich are incredibly stupid and wish to be forced to do mediocre jobs. It's like a pharaoh killing his slaves... And if that were the case it would only mean a rebellion would be easier as the rich would clearly not be very bright...
ValkyereHowie 1 week ago
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@ilIuminaughty Lol! Let's say there was some type of top secret conspiracy to get rid of the poor. All that means is the rich are incredibly stupid and wish to be forced to do mediocre jobs. It's like a pharaoh killing his slaves... And if that were the case it would only mean a rebellion would be easier as the rich would clearly not be very bright...
ValkyereHowie 1 week ago
@ValkyereHowie Things always change right? Well how about the rich actually just getting rid of the poor or turning you into slaves? Your assumption is that change will be better. I bet you voted or supported for Obama under that belief Lol. You also forget that people had a better chance of overthrowing the Government back then than they do now. At least back then they had numbers. Today? Not even close. If they couldn't do it then, there's no way they can do it now
TheRichsalIey 2 weeks ago
@TheRichsalIey Lol Obama's not great, kinda disappointing, but at least 10x better than captain faggot John McCain. And your right, change often goes for the worse, but still then again that bad turn will not last forever either, eventually the current wealthy will be over thrown it is a matter of the repetition of history, I just hope we do not continue the cycle after that.
ValkyereHowie 1 week ago
@ValkyereHowie It wouldn't matter. One is young and black, the other is old and white. Same difference. both would carry the Iraq and middle eastern wars. So it's pointless. Also what repetitive history are you referring to? I don't ever remember the rich repetitively being thrown out of power
TheRichsalIey 1 week ago
@TheRichsalIey Rebellions have taken out the wealthy through out history. Kings decapitated by peasants, French Revolution, etc. There is a limit on how greedy the wealthy can be before retribution.
ValkyereHowie 1 week ago
@ValkyereHowie cont
The other strongest point was during the 60's (which wasn't NEARLY as strong as the civil war). Of which again no liberation or overthrow of Government or the rich
TheRichsalIey 1 week ago
Obama is in a class all by himself WARFARE !!!
411American 2 weeks ago
Read propaganda and nuts in action right here in the comments section folks. Tickets are free. Step right up and view misinformation at its finest!
Omnicronimous 3 weeks ago
@ValkyereHowie
Does anyone really hate acta/sopa or the NDAA? No because they support people who support it.
This is democracy and the people are already on our side. Most of them forgot about the NDAA and stuff after Obama sang. Just look up that video and see their support. We've won.
Yeah 'anything' could be possible. A talking pig could fall out of the sky with wings and give the world cancer's cure. Not impossible, but not probable.
ilIuminaughty 3 weeks ago
@ilIuminaughty The larger the gap between the rich and poor the higher the probability of a revolution. Eventually people get fed up. The wealthy are their own worst enemy with their greed.
ValkyereHowie 3 weeks ago
@ValkyereHowie There's been a large gap between the rich and poor. NOTHING has happened. What your revolution stems from were more barbaric days. And rebels usually lose without outside help. Unless Russia is going to help you '99%' types, nothing will happen. Be logical and not irrational.
ilIuminaughty 3 weeks ago
@ilIumi Yes but the gap is larger than ever and still growing WHILE the middle class and poor are shit on with unemployment and wage REDUCTION while the rich only become richer. It's disgusting. Thankfully we have movements like the 99% standing up and bringing attention to the subject and hopefully one day we will have some sort of social justice. Times change, unexpected events that could never be foreseen occur, you really think the rich can go on forever in their ways without consequences?
ValkyereHowie 3 weeks ago
@ValkyereHowie Ok 'the gap is larger than ever and still growing' yet I don't see any rebellions. Where are the soldiers and police siding with you? There are NONE. You're delusional to think otherwise. I see arrests and pepper spraying every other day. The Rich have been in control forever and they won't go anywhere. Also I'm just curious. Who do you want as the US President? There's no right or wrong answer but I bet I can show you something that might blow your mind.
ilIuminaughty 3 weeks ago
@ilIuminaughty Your right, the rich have been in control for a very, very long time. But if it's one thing that has passed the trials of time it's the fact that nothing lasts forever. I can promise you that one day the current rich will be thrown down, I just hope they are not replaced by equally greedy and immoral people.
ValkyereHowie 3 weeks ago
@ValkyereHowie They won't be thrown down. Otherwise it would have happened. You can't seem to accept that this is your inevitable fate. Your hopes are as bad as people hoping that it will rain money. Come on
ilIuminaughty 3 weeks ago
@ilIuminaughty Lol your right. Just like slavery was, they would have never imagined the day when black people had equal rights or even a black man was the president yet here we are. Amazing how times can change isn't it?
ValkyereHowie 3 weeks ago
@ValkyereHowie How is the existence or non existence of slavery the relevance of the rich being in power and not? :)
ilIuminaughty 3 weeks ago
@ilIuminaughty It is a pretty fair analogy, if you lived back in the slavery days you would have never imagined slavery becoming illegal and taboo, black people gaining the right to vote yet alone the president being black. So it is today, a revolution may seem ridiculous or improbable but that is only due to our very limited perspective.
ValkyereHowie 3 weeks ago
@ValkyereHowie But, the rich are still rich, and the poor are still poor. You're not even comparing it to a point where the rich weren't 'defeated by rebellions'. Hey no one thought there would be stricter smoking laws, but there are. But how does that change the rich being rich and the poor being poor? Not at all.
=]
ilIuminaughty 3 weeks ago
@ilIuminaughty It's a perfect analogy of how rapid change occurs. Right now it does seem possible at all for a revolution or a redistribution of the wealth, but the same can be said for slavery, as you pointed out smoking and MANY other things. Slavery was around for longer than imaginable and yet here it is today nearly completely decimated, times change, people change and unforeseeable events occur.
ValkyereHowie 3 weeks ago
@ValkyereHowie But that isn't equating to the fact that it didn't deter the ones in power. I don't care what you think, but the fact remains the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor. People will do what we want. It's always been like that. Always will. Seeing as how it's been thousands of years since the rich have been in power, i doubt any change will happen. Never will. The army is on my side. They'll shoot you before they'd ever THINK of shooting me
ilIuminaughty 3 weeks ago
@ilIuminaughty Slavery was also alive for thousands of years. Now? Not so much. The change happened abruptly and rapidly. Nothing lasts forever and if you truly believe that ANYTHING will last forever then your just silly.
ValkyereHowie 3 weeks ago
@ValkyereHowie But the Rich were still rich and the poor are still poor. Modern day weapons are different from the old. But the rich are still rich and the poor are still poor. Vehicles, clothing all sorts of such. But the rich are still rich and the poor are still poor. So.... Deal with it. We've won. You're my property.
ilIuminaughty 3 weeks ago
@ilIuminaughty Again you fail to recognize the analogy. Slavery was also around for thousands of years, now completely deceased in most affluent countries. Swords were around for a hell of a long time. Kings rules for ages. The rich have been dethroned before, kings have been murdered and so one day the rich will be dethroned again.
ValkyereHowie 2 weeks ago
@ValkyereHowie It's a useless one. Comparing changing times to something that will never change is just stupid. You know it.
Besides kid, I bet you don't even know that the reason things happen is because we make or allow them to.
ilIuminaughty 2 weeks ago
@ilIuminaughty You are truly idiotic if you think ANYTHING will "never change". The rich are not demi-gods. People are imperfect and no matter how out powered we are it gets to a point where greater numbers supersedes fire power even if you did have the military on your side. A perfect example are prisons. At the end of the day, the prisoners are actually the ones in charge. If they wanted to they could kill the guards at any given moment simply due to out numbering them so massively.
ValkyereHowie 2 weeks ago
@ValkyereHowie Will pigs fly? Will hell freeze over? Will there be definitive proof of the afterlife? Will elves suddenly exist? Never.
You are idiotic and you sound like those Christian nuts I deal with.
Your entire argument is based on a VERY bad assumption with no hard evidence. Unless cops start rebelling (which they won't) or anything you said will happen happens, it's bull.
ilIuminaughty 2 weeks ago
@ilIuminaughty Lol believe what you like, but the time will come. Maybe years from now, maybe hundreds of years from now but it is inevitable.
ValkyereHowie 2 weeks ago
Too funny...the whole time the OWS vermin were camping out doing nothing...they could have been online learning...for free. Anything. Language. Supply Train. Personal Hygiene. Whatever. Instead they were whining that I'm supposed to keep working to pay them to do more nothing? Do you know what else is amazing? I worked all day today and was nice to everyone I met...and I'll be darned...no cop beat me down. Wow, how about that?
heglock 3 weeks ago
There's a lot to be said about this, such as the emphases on 'liberal' versus 'conservative' and the promotion of 'isms', but I'll focus on one fun fact: federal income taxes in their current form are unconstitutional for most. Congress has the power to regulate interstate commerce and collect income tax, but my paycheck always came from within the state where I lived and worked. This means with the exception of federal possessions (Puerto Rico, embassies, etc I think), it's the state's money.
Toshinben 4 weeks ago
OK.1. first off this pure propaganda lets just get that out of the way.
second both the democrats and republicans are the same thing but with a different masks and tactic's to get votes,but they always have the same agenda personal gain through private interest finance stop trying to blame one side ore the other it doesn't help the country.
3.the altemante of the country is simple negative converging interest lead by the monopoly national banks and there friends Corporatism
TheSteamSoldier 1 month ago
A uniform tax would be fine. The rich pay a lower percentage than everyone else 17%.
bboykumo 1 month ago
Another thing liberals don't understand is, as far a redistribution of wealth, is how are we to trust those in the government to actually be honest with our money, i.e. liberal democrat Charlie Rangel, Anthony Weiner, Barney Frank, etc. how can we trust them, to redistribute the wealth, and why do liberals think the government should have that power to redistribute wealth.
Highlandenterprises 1 month ago
@Highlandenterprises I love how you solely blame the liberals and Democrats for corruption just like "fair and balanced" Faux News. Government is not perfect and I wouldn't trust it with everything. But I would definitely trust government more than large corporations or extremely wealthy people looking for further riches.
ValkyereHowie 1 month ago
...anybody want a donut?
dlrice 1 month ago
The thing liberals fail or choose not to see, is that continually raising upper class taxes causes nothing but inflation. By raising upper, while lowering middle class taxes, the government that is acclaimidly trying to "level the playing field", is actually causing prices to raise. Because the money companies are losing in taxes has to be compensated for somewhere. Otherwise they cant raise wages, hire on more people thus creating jobs, or lower their prices for middle class families.
realworldbycj 1 month ago
Keep up the great work, Zo! (And thanks for reminding me to NEVER use a bidet.)
Rstars11 1 month ago
I understand everything you said about taxation, but the original constitutional model, in my opinion, is not adequate in todays global marketplace. The tariffs that we would levy today would not be so much on whole goods or services imported but rather portions of goods. The value added by our outsourcing labor is minimal compared to the raw materials(export) and the marketing/retail portions of the production cycle. Is there another constitutional method you can tell us? (NOT Sarcasm)
besmithusmc 1 month ago
@besmithusmc
You bring up some relatively good points, but the key issue that Zo didn't really talk much about but has touched on in the past is that spending is out of control. Bill Whittle has an excellent video detailing the Entitlement madhouse. That said, as far as taxes are concerned, if we got back to what spending is ACTUALLY Constitutional (which Entitlements are not), then we could start looking at cutting taxes altogether on personal income.
diskpanic 1 month ago in playlist Uploaded videos
@diskpanic I agree with that whole heartedly. My lingering question is taxation. I am studying Economics as an undergrad right now and the income tax is terribly ineffiecient (not to mention against the framers intent). What I can't decide on is how to restructure it (fairtax, flattax, return to tariffs,....). Any ideas on that?
besmithusmc 1 month ago
Exactingly correct!!!!!
derweibhai 1 month ago
That bidet clip was just wrong
TheHounddog2020 1 month ago
Yes, Mr. Zonation, I shall do my best with the assignment: Explain liberty, sensible government and the rule of law to Leftist knuckleheads, and remind them how Hitler was one of them, not one of us.
Linguiphile 1 month ago
Wow Zo, was that you on the toilet? Shit looks like ur having some fun if it is!
riddler251 1 month ago
Ron Paul 2012!
marcef100 1 month ago
What has been seen, can not be unseen. Bo-day... lol.
qhack 1 month ago in playlist Uploaded videos
You do not assist job creation by giving "job creators" money BEFORE they create jobs. You do not alter reality by making up conspiracy theories that assist your "point" and you do not make progress by going backwards. Deregulation you say? We tried that, google "the triangle waist factory fire 1911" to find out why we realized regulations are a good idea. And if your such good Christians I would think you would choose lives over profits every time.
ValkyereHowie 1 month ago
So asking rich people to pay the SAME amount in taxes as the average American would be class warfare? Then use a redherring saying "there is no fair tax". Then say it is illegal for the federal government to collect taxes. WOW! Sure we can go down that road... And end up like Mexico. Our social programs (schools, road construction/upkeep and such) are what make us great. Ignorant conservatives are what make the rest of the world hate us. Shove your conspiracy theories and wake up.
ValkyereHowie 1 month ago
@ValkyereHowie Our social programs do not make us great. Our Constitution makes us great. Our values of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness make us great, not increasing government power and their ability to jack us of our income.
TheGodYouWishYouKnew 1 month ago
@TheGodYouWishYouKnew Your right, we should just eliminate the entire taxation system, when people get old they can just die off like nature intended. And schools, police departments, fire departments? Psssh. Who needs those? We'll just save ourselves from the burning buildings and deal with our heart attacks on our own. Roads? We'll just pave a road form all the dead senior citizens that couldn't afford their healthcare bills. Beautiful place it would be wouldn't it?
ValkyereHowie 1 month ago
@ValkyereHowie Government's job is not to provide for us. It is to protect us so that we may provide for ourselves. Police and Fire Departments, as well as roads are examples of the government providing the protection that we need to provide for ourselves. Senior citizens have a better chance of living under our current system than under ObamaCare. Those aren't the things that Conservatives want to get rid of and you know it. I love that strawman argument that you guys use.
TheGodYouWishYouKnew 1 month ago
@TheGodYouWishYouKnew Scott Walker has shown what conservatives want to do to our social programs. Shit on firefighters and police taking away their bargaining rights (hence the word RIGHTS) These are social programs. These could be considered "socialistic". Obama care would make everyone pay their fair share in healthcare and no one could take advantage of the system. You just don't like it because Obama suggested it. I need no strawman.
ValkyereHowie 1 month ago
@TheGodYouWishYouKnew And if you were unaware, we have one of the world's worst healthcare systems available. Europe is soaring past us. Even Cuba has MUCH greater healthcare than we do. Our healthcare is ALREADY on a pull the plug on grandma system, it's called capitalism. Health insurance companies will do ANYTHING they can to make your claim invalid, even if it results in your death JUST to save a few bucks. It is truly evil.
ValkyereHowie 1 month ago
@ValkyereHowie - You went from arguing that Conservatives don't want to pay taxes, therefore don't deserve police and fire protection, to arguing that they want to take away police and fire pensions. Those are two different arguments. As far as people with money getting better health care than people without money, that still happens in a National Health Care system, so please do your research. And if you believe that Cuba has a better health care system than us, you're nuts...
TheGodYouWishYouKnew 1 month ago
@TheGodYouWishYouKnew We should pay our firefighters and police MORE not less. They RISK THEIR LIVES. GOP also wanted to destroy Medicare but that went over really well.. XD Yes true, BUT at least the poor still get reasonable healthcare, not like here. And if you really doubt Cuba's healthcare system just talk to some of the 911 first response units that our healthcare system fucked in the butt and were actually able to get service in Cuba.
ValkyereHowie 1 month ago
@ValkyereHowie ...and you should burn your copy of Michael Moore's "Sicko."
TheGodYouWishYouKnew 1 month ago
@TheGodYouWishYouKnew Dude, you can't argue with libtards. They have their minds made up and little things like "facts" don't get in their way.
jwash3rd 1 month ago
@TheGodYouWishYouKnew Conservatives are just puppets for the rich. The GOP is ran but elites for the elites. Romney makes $57,000 a day on investments, can you really tell me he is in touch with the average American? No.. No you can't.
ValkyereHowie 1 month ago
@ValkyereHowie LOL, you are so naive. Do you think Millionares Barack Obama, Joe Biden, Bill/Hillary Clinton and Nancy Pelosi are in touch with the average American? Between pay and benefits, Police and Firemen get paid just fine, we don't need to pay the more. Besides, your Liberal buddies are the same ones always protesting the Police, so stop with the fake support. Again, burn your copy of "Sicko." That whole thing was propaganda. Ya think Cuba would do that for everyone?
TheGodYouWishYouKnew 1 month ago
@TheGodYouWishYouKnew They are definitely much more in touch than Romney, Obama had a pretty normal childhood. Romney? Nope. Police and firefighters should make between 80-120k in my opinion, if we can afford to pay CEOs their BS checks than we can treat people whom risk their lives for us with at least a fraction of the support. I support cops, just not ones that abuse their power. Lol yes propaganda, totally. COMPLETELY UNLIKE FAUX NEWS! And if it were propaganda what would be it's purpose?
ValkyereHowie 1 month ago
@ValkyereHowie No politician is in touch with you, saying Obama is more in touch with you than Romney is like saying that Stalin was a better guy than Hitler. We pay cops but we do not pay CEOs. CEOs are paid privately. If you don't know that, then I don't know why I am arguing with you. What would be the purpose of Michael Moore's propaganda? Seriously? How about to get National Healthcare. I never questioned the moon landing and nobody thinks the poor are the problem.
TheGodYouWishYouKnew 1 month ago
@TheGodYouWishYouKnew Lol hilarious. Actually WE DO pay CEOs. How might you ask? We buy their companies' products. It is nearly impossible to simply stop buying from every company that pays their CEOs absurd checks so taxation would be the cure for this issue. The GOP tries to blame poor people. LOL why would Michael Moore want national healthcare in the first god damn place if our healthcare was good to begin with? He wouldn't. Your logic craps upon itself.
ValkyereHowie 1 month ago
@TheGodYouWishYouKnew The thing you conservatives fail to realize is there is a fixed amount of money in circulation. We cannot print more due to inflation. And thus one person being ridiculously, filthy rich takes away potential income a less fortunate person could be making, in other words the only thing you can really do with money is redistribute it. And when certain people make gross amounts of cash for little to no reason cough cough CEOs cough cough Mitt Romney it is only logical.
ValkyereHowie 1 month ago
@TheGodYouWishYouKnew It's hilarious because all of your conservatives conspiracy theories are easily debunked with the quick question why? Why would people fake the moon landing? Why would you think the poor are the problem when the RICH are the only ones with enough power to have any real effect. Your political beliefs are the result of ACTUAL propaganda, Fox News. Paid for by rich people in the attempt to improve circumstances for people with already outstanding circumstances.
ValkyereHowie 1 month ago
@ValkyereHowie Cuba has a better healthcare system?! Is that why so many Cuban-Americans are drowning themselves to get back onto that island?
knucklehead98X 1 month ago
@ValkyereHowie So asking rich people to pay the SAME amount in taxes as the average American would be class warfare?
___________
Okay, I have to comment here. Do you have ANY IDEA how much the rich actually pay? And I don't mean in percentages, I mean in HARD DOLLARS. The top 1% pay for over 50% of the country's tax obligations, so maybe you should just say THANK YOU. This whole argument about percentages is nothing but BS. Tax rates are different for different sources of income... (cont)
mbukow01 1 month ago
@mbukow01 Um... NO. The only fair way to view it is relatively, if you can afford to contribute a lot more you should. Romney made 42 mill and paid 6 in taxes. I don't care if he pays more taxes than I do dollars and cents wise he only pays LESS THAN HALF percentage wise. That's like saying a fat person lost more weight than me because he had more to lose to begin with. It doesn't matter once you realize the percentages.
ValkyereHowie 1 month ago
@ValkyereHowie you lack an understand of the tax code. Your effective tax rate (where Romney is paying 15%) is different than your marginal rate. Almost 98% of the country has an effective tax rate LOWER than 11.9%, so they actually pay less than Romney does. Within that 98% are the 48% I referenced. Those individuals aren't necessarily dirt poor, as you suggest. In fact, many of them are typical middle class Americans who are able to lower their effective rate down to almost 0%.. (cont)
mbukow01 1 month ago
@mbukow01 That is simply not true. Believe me, any middle class person that can pay taxes does. My mother makes in between 30-40k and pays a good deal in taxes. And your effective tax rate is just bullshit because I know NO ONE whom pays 0%. You are either just making shit up at this point or horribly informed.
ValkyereHowie 1 month ago
@ValkyereHowie I'm not making anything up. I'm a Certified Financial Planner and my wife is a CPA. I think I tend to know a thing or two about taxes. I'll send you a quick message to explain my point in detail because it's a bit lengthy.
mbukow01 1 month ago
@mbukow01 Well I'm sorry then for doubting your credentials but I still disagree with your view point.
ValkyereHowie 1 month ago
@ValkyereHowie (cont) a family of 5 in NJ making $80k a year, for instance, after taking deductions for mortgage interest, child tax credits, their standard deduction, etc. can lower their rate SIGNIFICANTLY, paying an effective tax rate below 5%. Again, this isn't an argument of what your federal income tax BRACKET is, it's what you ACTUALLY pay in taxes after filing your return.
mbukow01 1 month ago
@ValkyereHowie ... you and everyone else pays the same cap gains rates, the same rates on dividends and interest and when it comes to ordinary income rates, the "RICH" pay MORE than the poor. The IRS recently concluded that 97% of the American population pays LESS THAN 11.9% in effective taxes. Every taxpayer uses standard or itemized deductions, credits, etc. to lower their marginal rate. Oh, and 48% of the population pays NOTHING, so if you want a "fair share," how about you start there?
mbukow01 1 month ago
@mbukow01 LOL here we go "48% pay nothing" I wonder why? Maybe it's because they are so dirt poor they cannot afford to take care of themselves yet contribute. Many I will do this to themselves. BUT there are countless people whom work their asses off to no avail. And personally I would have a 40% tax on anyone who makes more than 1-2 million a year, simply because they can afford it and if I were that good off I wouldn't bitch and moan.
ValkyereHowie 1 month ago
@ValkyereHowie Secondly, you miss another point when you say the "wealthy can afford to pay more." First, you ignore an economic concept called the law of diminishing marginal utility. Basically, if you penalize someone enough (via taxes) they look to move elsewhere to avoid that "penalty."
mbukow01 1 month ago
@mbukow01 If it was effective through-out the entire country they would have no choice. Unless they left the US which would show just how truly patriotic they were. If you are not willing to contribute to the system you don't deserve to live here. And our high taxes are what makes us great. Why does Mexico suck? Shitty roads, shitty police, shitty fire their social programs suck, very simple really. It heavily reduces the average quality of life.
ValkyereHowie 1 month ago
@ValkyereHowie that's exactly what happened in Great Britain back in the 70's. In fact, George Harrison's song, The Taxman, was all about the situation. They decided to tax investment income over 90%. What happened was, investors in GB moved their assets offshore. I would argue that since the wealthy pay for the overwhelming majority of the resources we all use, taxing them in a punitive fashion would result in a situation where you can potentially lose the revenue entirely. (cont)
mbukow01 1 month ago
@mbukow01 We are not talking about 90%, we are talking about 40%. That is a redherring at best. I do agree there is great wastefulness in the government but there is also such waste in the private sector if not more so. And the government is not useless. People act like giving the government money is just a complete and utter waste and it is completely incompetent. I disagree, we have a great military, police force and firefighters and they are no waste, the government can be successful.
ValkyereHowie 1 month ago
@ValkyereHowie (cont) and it's not that they're "unpatriotic." Let's face it - we ALL file our taxes every year with one goal - reduce the amount we might have to pay. To say otherwise is simply dishonest. I also believe that the government wastes a ton of the tax revenue on useless things. Why wouldn't a wealthy person's contribution to a charitable cause be more patriotic that simply giving it to a government that has shown no ability to be responsible with that money?
mbukow01 1 month ago
@ValkyereHowie It's a dangerous line to walk in our country to tell people - work hard, bust your butt and be successful, but don't be TOO successful. Also, you can tax the income of the top 1% of the country at 100% and it still wouldn't pay for more than 3 months of the federal budget.
Your numbers are also off. Romney made $22 million last year, not 42 mil and he paid $3 mil on taxes and donated $3 mil to charity. How much did Obama give to charity last year?
mbukow01 1 month ago
@mbukow01
Why would anyone even want to ascend to the top 1% if they were only going to lose all their money the instant that happened?
ArrogantAmerican333 1 month ago in playlist Uploaded videos
@ArrogantAmerican333 EXACTLY. That's precisely my point and the point of a lot of conservatives. History has even shown that when tax rates in an area or even a country are punitive to the point where people can just pick up and do their "thing" elsewhere, they generally do. Then, 100% of the tax revenue is lost entirely. NJ, my home state is experiencing this with their property taxes. I believe $60 bn in tax rev has left in the last few years because ppl are moving out of state.
mbukow01 1 month ago
@mbukow01 I am not saying 100% I am saying 40. There is a big difference there. You think if we began a 40% tax millionaires and billionaires are just going to give up and be homeless bums on the side of the road? Lol. I mean what is it you are insinuating? And if they leave, well good. They clearly weren't very sincere or disciplined individuals nor patriotic.
ValkyereHowie 1 month ago
@ValkyereHowie First, there are a lot of "millionaires" in this country who live off of Social Security. They saved their entire lives and have built a nest egg. You don't take people on their net worth, you tax them on their income. So, if someone is actually MAKING $1 mil a year, they ARE paying a very high tax rate. First and foremost, they're already in the highest marg. bracket at 35%, then they pay state taxes, local taxes, etc., so they're tax rate is actually higher than 40% as is.
mbukow01 1 month ago
@mbukow01 Yes indeed that loop whole should be fixed, there should be net worth limitations on social security and other such social programs. But we pay local taxes and state taxes as well so that cannot be considered something "extra" that millionaires pay. And I have never heard of or seen a millionaire pay as much as 35%. Entire corporations have been paying $0 for years. It is disgusting and shameful.
ValkyereHowie 1 month ago
@ValkyereHowie .. then, the higher income earners actually LOSE the deductions that most of us all get. They are basically phased out with their income, so their ability to lower their marginal rate is significantly reduced. Whereas a middle class person, or a lower income earner can deduct things like student loan interest, they can take credits that the higher earners can't take, etc.
mbukow01 1 month ago
@mbukow01 I don't see these deduction loses as "true losses" to the wealthy because these are things that would usually otherwise be impossible for low income people to achieve.
ValkyereHowie 1 month ago
@ValkyereHowie I don't think they're "losses" in the sense that a wealthy person needs the deduction, but believe it or not, there are a lot of middle income Americans who lose valuable deductions. Student loan interest is a big one. The phase out for that starts at 55-70k for a single filer. So, you have a lot of college grads who have decent jobs but a boatload of student loan debt who lose this deduction.
mbukow01 1 month ago
@mbukow01 I definitely agree with that, I think we should look at education as an investment. We aren't wasting money educating people we are making them more productive and able to be more efficient overall more efficient in our economic system. Maybe millionaires or people whom make 250k + a year would not need these loans but anywhere in between 100 and 150k annual income we should be okay with education based deductions.
ValkyereHowie 1 month ago
@ValkyereHowie Obama is fighting for me. the rich. He will ensure I stay in power and you below. The American people even agree with this.
ilIuminaughty 4 weeks ago
@ilIuminaughty I think he is being to soft on the tea party and those supporting the rich, but I don't see him working hard himself to help the rich. And if you think Romney or Gingrich would be less pro-rich than Obama your just flat out nuts lol.
ValkyereHowie 4 weeks ago
@ValkyereHowie Actually it doesnt matter. They're all doing our bidding. Everything we want, they will do.
ilIuminaughty 4 weeks ago
@ilIuminaughty Sadly that's probably true. It would probably take a full scale bloody revolution to change things, but if everything keeps going like it is I wouldn't be surprised if that were to occur in the future.
ValkyereHowie 3 weeks ago
@ValkyereHowie That isn't sad. That's great!
There will be no bloody revolution. First of all, the American people agree with Obama and Romney, hence why they vote for him. Second, they wouldn't last a day against the US military. All is going against my plan.
ilIuminaughty 3 weeks ago
@ilIuminaughty Sadly the average American is so ignorant and uneducated they vote for the upper class policies that harm them. And you seem to forget the US military is a group of middle class people. The mass majority of soldiers are highly under paid.
ValkyereHowie 3 weeks ago
@ValkyereHowie I am not of the american people. Also the US military will do whatever the President tells them. Which is why they go to Iraq and so forth. If they don't, they get arrested.
That you seem to forget. NO matter. My side won.
ilIuminaughty 3 weeks ago
@ilIuminaughty Arrested? By who the middle class extremely poorly paid police? Yet again not people that will fight for the rich.
ValkyereHowie 3 weeks ago
@ValkyereHowie Police arrest and beat people everyday. You seem to have too much confidence in some rebellion or revolution. Just look at the occupy wallstreet. See any of those middle class cops standing up for them? Nope. Sorry, you're the minority. You've lost.
ilIuminaughty 3 weeks ago
@ilIuminaughty If it were a scenario in which the rebellion had confidence and there was a good chance of it winning, believe me MANY would follow. And if there is one thing us poor people are not it is the minority. Obviously you didn't get a very good education your math is horrible! Lol.
ValkyereHowie 3 weeks ago
@ValkyereHowie There is no scenario. Stop making up scenarios and stupid assumptions, because that's all they are. You don't think for the masses. NO one is willing to follow. NO one is willing to fight. Obama or Romney will do as we want. They're just puppets to us. No matter who you vote for, we will go to war with Iran for resource. We'll "iraq" them. And you can't do nothing about it. Plus the Majority agree.
ilIuminaughty 3 weeks ago
@ilIuminaughty Lol surely they would have called the scenarios that brought upon the French Revolution "Stupid assumptions." But it happened. When it really comes down to it the material means very little. The rich can try to control us via government but government is only powerful if it is followed. The only power a president has is the power to make others THINK he has power. At the end of the day we are just animals and starve some will over feeding others will cause up roar.
ValkyereHowie 3 weeks ago
@ValkyereHowie Lol, this is not the French revolution. This is America. The US Military will never side with the common people. They had numerous chances to do so. Iraq, Wall street, whatever. They won't. They do as they're told. Your idea that they're middle class will automatically make them join some poor people not even making a dent, is laughable. The President has power. Everything he's done has been done. Who's gonna stop him? Who has stopped him? No one.
ilIuminaughty 3 weeks ago
@ilIuminaughty Anything can escalate to the point of revolution. But why am I arguing with some troll whom is probably 12 in his mom and dad's basement.
ValkyereHowie 3 weeks ago
@ValkyereHowie But it won't. Are you trying to forfeit and throw an insult? Everything I say is fact, you haven't denied or disprove a single thing. You seem like you're upset about it. Just say you've lost and it won't be a rage quit.
ilIuminaughty 3 weeks ago
@ilIuminaughty Well seeing as you cannot predict the future I'm going to say anything possible and as long as the rich become richer and the poor become poorer the odds only get worse from you.
ValkyereHowie 3 weeks ago
@ValkyereHowie Well how about we look at the facts?
Has the occupy wallstreet movement went anywhere? No
Have middle class policeman stood by the poor instead of arresting and pepper spraying them? No
Has the military stood by the poor instead of doing their job and invading? No.
Have the poor ever stood up against the police and won, let alone the US military? No
Are the US people voting in or supporting a President who will stop these things they hate? No.
ilIuminaughty 3 weeks ago
@Dezidummi WOW!!! How u have just proved your ignorance and should not vote. The taxes you pay at the grocery store are STATE TAXES not income taxes big difference. The governor and legislature of your state control STATE TAXES, not Obama. Please learn a little about the government in which you live, maybe it will help curve your ignorance!!!
denniscasey5 1 month ago
@denniscasey5 dumbass.... you actually think the only way the Federal Government collects takes is through income taxes?? go back to the basement, your mom hasn't fixed dinner yet
dezldummi 1 month ago