@ikosabre Ophelia is basically their stand-in for God. One of the philosophical foundations of Deus Ex (and something backed up by human psychology) is that people like the idea of being watched and worship an omnipresence who punishes the wicked and praises the righteous. The Ophelia they created is sort of like a Bigger Brother, who watches over the populace and ensures order above all.
Well I got that much, but is there any reference to her in the rest of the game series that I have missed? Or is she something that can be found in the real human cultural history? like Helios or Daedalus. I'm just wondering if there is something more to the name and why it was chosen.
@ikosabre I don't believe it's a historical reference, no. Ophelia in Hamlet is the only historical name I can think of and it's not exactly relevant.
Well robotic hand and so on is allright,you will be still human.So scratch the templars.With your brain connected instantly to the supercomputer,you can be easily controlled and therefore loose your free will,so scratch the helios ending.And with illuminati,they will secretly rule,but you will live relatively free and mainly with your own mind.So this ending wins for me.
@anteroXBash, I own Deus ex 3, only one thing, I have yet to play it, I need to wait another day unofrtunately. but considering what friends have said, and the gameplay I have seen, I'd say the new one has better gameplay.
Adam is pretty cool even though he isn't a denton, they have had their go, its time to move on, and I respect that.
Deus Ex 3 is before the first one, it takes place in 2027, where augmentations first start. Its mech augs. Purity first, a group, try to stop the augmentations.
@Maddo3456 hey mado quick queestion what do you think about the new deus ex? is it better worse...do you think that the new protagonist is cool even though hes not a denton? and last question is deus 3 passed between 1 and 2 or after 2 or before 1? i think its either between 1 and 2 because they still have cities untorn by war or maybe its before deus 1 (but thats very unlickely even though they said JC was 25 in the new game)
No such thing as free will, the freest we can be is under a stable,non-warring civilization where our skills can be utilized until their function is no longer needed. We live in nature,what some people forget. We can guid humanity or allow our base instincts to destroy the ability to utilize all human variety in skill,insight,intelligence,etc. This is why totalitarians with their control over trade and economy limits the ability to be as close to free as we can ever be- free to self realize and
I see a lot of people bringing up the term "free" and using it too broadly. Each ending proposes A freedom from something. Helios frees the world of ambitious individualism. The Templar free the world of machine interference on the human conscience. The Illuminati free the world of the extremes of the three other parties (hive mind, extremists, anarchy), providing society with the safety of laws, but at the cost of being monitored and ultimately confined. The Omar frees the world of government.
@aidan456456 Its why I went with this ending, its not taking away free will, and theres always a chance that the invisable government can be beaten, at least thats how I took the endings.
This ending represents ultimate capitalism to me. You make your own success, unfortunately under the watchful eye of Big Brother, in this case Ophelia.
A scary ending, less bad than the Templar or Omar endings though. I say scary because citizens are monitored 24/7 really and at what point in this regime could we say we are free?
One day, there was a man named Jesus Christ. Today, he is known as Joe Aka MysteryGuitarMan. He did many miracles, but he came to warn humanity of their wickedness. It didn’t have to be this way. He then died at the cross bearing their sin at the age of 32. He rose from the dead 3 days later holding the keys of death and hell. He gave one key to the man with the white stone, and this key is HELL. Copy and paste this or you will die and go to hell.
the first time i played the game back in 2000(the first) i went straight against them even i didnt heard of ILLUMINATI that time i knew acording to the game they are evil thanks for deus ex that taught me the conspiracy theory and helped me to see the world with two eyes when i was only 13
Have you ever posted on IMDB? This post reminds me of one over there made a while ago, where a youngling was telling us how this game changed his life.
In the game Ophelia was the Illuminati's Orbital Platform i.e. space station and command center for all operations within the Illuminati. It had an Aquinus node if not several within it. Alex Denton was right about them though, the Illuminati even in this game disquise tyranny with so call free institutions and lies. That's why I don't like this ending.
@jpchryslered You've been trolled. He was referencing an old internet meme that started with Halo and Master Chief. The original, flawed statement was as follows. "I think Halo is a pretty cool guy. eh kills aleins and doesnt afraid of anything."
Just look up "Pretty Cool Guy" and you can learn all about the meme that is used for all kinds of things.
Honestly, the only thing that makes the ending seem "bad" is the music at the end, but that alone is enough. It seems like they were TRYING to guilt the player in every ending but the JC Denton one (and even that doesn't really feel GOOD). I loved this game, but hated what they did with the endings.
@Puglous Why do you hate the endings? They give a very simple message: there is no such thing as a "happy ending." For something to be elevated, something else has to be lowered. For someone to rise, another must vacate their place to make room. There is no ideal that is objectively better than all the others, no matter how many wars are fought over them. There is always a downside. Making choices is not about getting the perfect outcome, it's about getting to the outcome you can live with.
@AlhazredsGamingGoo SAID:"For something to be elevated, something else has to be lowered."
In terms of simple Gravity (physics) your statement is true. In terms of superiority complexes, this is true. In terms of real society, this is not true. The requirement to oppress and dominate is separate and not compatible with human rights, innovation for the good or truth or right. Your statement is cynical in a way that is ingrained in peoples' minds, only to profit those at what you call "elevated".
@waterspindle I can just as easily say your statement is based in optimism in a way that is ingrained in peoples' minds, only to comfortably deny reality and better live with how unfair it is. No amount of philosophy can change the fact that resources are not unlimited. There is not enough for everyone to have everything. Until you remove Scarcity as an obstacle, morality changes nothing.
Yeah, I know they send a message...that's precisely what I hated about them. What I liked about Invisible War was that, up until the endings, the developers didn't try to shove their philosphical/moral cock down the player's throat at all, so their presence felt invisible. But with these endings, they fall into the trap of acting like they're smart enough to predict the results of your actions a century in advance as well as offer a between-the-lines commentary.
She... that mean Satan is female.. ohhh my ... your not my god and will never pray to you, look what have you done stupid woman ! all these humans are sexually disoriented, haveing sex with the same type, sex with animals, sex with death, sex rituals in many dark forms, without any feeling.. just the bang bang to suck out our life energy, our kids are beeing raped by reptilians and other satanic forces, wake the fuck up people, THIS IS REAL LIFE ! RIGHT IN YOUR FACE, EVEN DIRECT WITH THIS GAME !
Top game,cant wait for the new one,perfect balance of story,puzzles,gadgets and shooter.Although the first one had really bad foley,cant remember which was the worst ending?
Free inexhaustible energy is real!But the Establishment doesn't want ppl to know this,Get the blueprints for a real Magnet motor free enegy machine at LT-MAGNET-MOTORdotCOM ,Join the revolution!
This ending is the only one that actually allows the human race to maintain its identity and ability to evolve, and would be the most positive one available for the future of the human race as a whole. Well, unless you count the Oman ending.... but that's a very grim future indeed.
Outside the game though, I'd hope the human race would evolve beyond these choices, either through conflict, technology, strife, or (the most unlikely) the good deeds of its citizens.
The cons to this ending are a complete loss of privacy and complete governmental control by one ruling body.
The cons to the Templar ending are the prospect of living in constant terror of being branded a deviant or a threat at any time for any reason.
The cons to the Helios ending are that the human race may indeed become completely equal and cease all struggles... it is the end of evolution and leaves the human race vulnerable to outside influence (aliens?).
This ending I'd think is the best one for a couple of reasons: Human nature will always inevitably tear down its own organizations. A benevolent dictatorship has always been and may always be the form of government with the highest chance of success through centuries or even millennia.
@ReyDeSalsa Interesting. I find this to be an odd suggestion. namely the description of the Illuminati as being 'benevolent' dictators. They seem far closer to being a classic Oligarchy than the former. If anything is closest to being a benevolent dictator surely that is Helios?
@SentinelConvergence The latter. Essentially Utopia... but it halts evolution in its tracks beyond growing into more of a hive mind. I don't think there are really many people who would trade their identity for utopia.
I found this probably the best alternative. Life as bad as we know it today, well, compared to forced nano-infusion, total extinction of humanity as we know it, or religious fascism; this is not as bad as it may seem.
anyone thinking that this game is trying to convince people that the Illuminati is actually controlling the world is an idiot, its a fucking game people.
For those who don't know: "Ophelia" is the Illuminati controlled Aquinas protocol (which would have been Helios) which Chad situated in a space station orbiting Earth. The man in the reflection might not be anyone in particular, but it basically means that, unbeknownst to everyone, there is actually one person pulling all the strings.
@zombie900 The illuminati did exist, in ancient times. Whether they still do is debatable and ultimately futile. Sells a lot of books/advertising though.
@pratt123 The Templar ending: the human race is plunged back to a time or Religious fervor and control, the world won't 'right itself' into a world like we know today, because there would be no intellectual thought, brought about by the Reformation in Europe in the 15/16/17th century!
With Ophilia the Illuminati would have a near complete control of information. Therefore manipulating a democracy to do what you want is very easy. So it's a bit of both.
This ending is indeed the best for everyone. It basically shows that the cycle of the Iron Law of Oligarchy operates pretty smoothly and that Nicolette's religious tinkering ...caused some to worship a golden bull. But that pill is not as bitter to swallow since as you well put it: "the others are varying levels of insane."
This ending is orwellian though, total surveillance in a fascist civilization where no one can resist it. I think all the endings are bad in this Deus Ex 2. Its very pessimistic about the choices people have and the future of the world.
Have to agree with you. The JC Denton ending is the canon good one (if there was a canon) but basically it goes against the first game's canon good ending. Helios may be a nice and fine computer but I wouldn't want it controlling my behavior or the minds of humanity.
Sounds like a nice gaudy version of the Borg to me.
Y'know that was exactly what I was going to say to someone who called it a good ending, it is like the borg. I mean thats what it would be, some hive mind and everyone would be ants.
Thats the thing, with the first game you could argue any end was the good end because all of them were morally relative, with invisible war.....they not only dumbed down the game, the plot but the endings too. So you have good(?) - the hive mind, bad-fascism, bad-holocaust and apocalypse, bad-religeous fundamentalism. I could write an essay on Deus Ex but you know what I mean.
I gave the endings some thought and I think the Templar ending is the best. The Illuminati and JC Denton endings have prosperity but being part of the Borg or being in a 1984/Brave New World setting is harder to break so that true liberty can be achieved. The Holocaust ending is the worst since everyone is dead.
The Templar ending is the most open to change. The Dark Ages / Crusades were like this period. Look where we are today.
Thats something i've not thought about before but your right, with that ending then at least their is the chance that liberty and democracy will be achieved again. Heres hoping the next Warren Spector is working at Eidos Montreal, but I doubt it, I think Deus Ex was a one off unfortunately, it should have been.
That was the problem I had with IW's story - it assumed all the endings from DX occurred and it...really negated the whole point of arguing which ending was good/bad/best/worthwhile. I really didn't like IW's ending, especially JC's ending.
I totally agree, it was quite shambolic where they took the plot in Invisible War. You should watch Harvery Smiths interview with Warren Spectre, he explains a lot about why they went in that direction.
I'm not sure, I kind of like the Illuminati ending; while Orwellian, it seems the Illuminati in Deus Ex is genuinely concerned with the well being of Earth's people.
It's actually a bit clever game design. It makes you think that you messed up and caused the downfall of humanity's freedom, so you think you lost and should start over. They use the ending to make you play again, basically.
@Saurik2 The Helios ending appears to be the "best" of them all, considering a computer would not have any bias, and thus would not be able to be corrupted.
@SgtMustang JC Denton was well intentioned, but the Helios ending is horrifying because people will never agree upon how to live so long as we retain our humanity and individuality. There is no way to plug in an algorithm and coalesce the infinite and diverse ethical and political philosophies of mankind into one coherent position. For Helios to work at all, we'd have to be manipulated into functioning as a hive mind.
@SecondsToLast Can we be certain than we would think in the same patterns and manners if we can truly understand what it is to be another? In a situation were to be un-empathetic is impossible? It seems to me that if we can truly understand what it is like to be another human being, it would be awfully difficult to act in any other fashion than co-operatively.
@Saurik2 I totally agree with you. But I believe this was intentional. If you think about it, every outcome in this game, is the most discouraging version among homogenous alternatives.
@Saurik2 I totally agree with you. But I believe this was intentional. If you think about it, every outcome in this game, is the most discouraging version among homogenous alternatives.
@Saurik2 The Helios ending is the one that's really Orwellian. The Illuminati may monitor you with security cameras, but at least they can't see into your head.
@Saurik2 Not my business, but do not confuse corporatist, totalitarian nationalist policy to surveillance and free market. That's liberal capitalism, well yes, surveillance, but Illuminati in DX always tried to achieve capitalist hegemony in which they were on the top, with some illusionary freedom, which fascism lacks completely.
@markkuwerkko Quite, the Illuminati seemed far closer to being your traditional oligarchy than being particularly fascistic, they lack a number of qualities that would make them the latter.
@SentinelConvergence Oligarchy has clear hierarchy and chain of command. While the DX 1 Illuminati had an belief in which only the most intelligent one will lead ( or enlightened). For example, Beth Duclare was able to converse and argue with Everett quite freely, something oligarchy wont allow. And think about Lucius DeBeers. Would he be prisoned in ice if he used to have TOTAL control over his subjects? I think not.
You don't even know what socialism even means, it actually means a worker's (us) democracy which we currently live in a democracy for the wealthy few called "Capitalism"/
Socialism is about about distributing resources evenly to the people and providing their basic needs (education, health care etc.) freely through the government.
1984 was totalitarianism, complete control by the government of all facets of life.
@Zero2562130 Indeed no one in 19th 20th 21th century was communist! Not USSR not China not North Korea etc. In fact if I had to say those that came close to communism were anarchists and sindicalists or socialist comunes like in Paris or Spain during Civil War or Ukraine during Civil War in parts of Ukraine
@Saurik2 It isnt fascist since Iluminati dont operate that way is certnly orwellian but not fascist they prefer to the force behind the power not the power itself
@Saurik2 Resist what? What is there to resist? There is peace and order. The system largely operates under laissez-faires capitalism, with restrictions only put in place for the benefit of everyone. Nanite technology is now available for everyone to use, with no adverse effects, catapulting forward the human lifespan and its benefits. There is no war, no poverty.
It's Orwellian, sure, and it has its downsides. It's not the best, but it's also still better than today.
Luv JC and Omar endings much more, IMHO they are both much more realistic. Either go opensource or screw everything) What do you mean by "insane" and "favorite". If you mean "favorite"="present reality" and "insane"="progress", I agree to you =)
BTW you have one chance to interface with Nicolette directly in black gate and, just for fun, try to put her unconcious and then finally kill her. Listen to the comments =)
Personally I wouldn't call having all of my individuality drained and becoming nothing but an empty ghost in a group consciousness "progress". JC is a pawn of Helios and the Omar are just a group of crazy cyborgs with speech impediments, don't even get me started on the Templars. The Illuminati are the only ones who can sympathize with humanity and, from that, really deduce what needs to be done. That's the reason I decided to put them into a position of power instead of anyone else.
Helios is a facilitator only. Everyone keeps their individuality, the only difference is the level of knowledge each individual has access to is both more broad and more intimate. I prefer the JC ending with the single stipulation that everyone is free to choose whether they will merge with Helios or not.
He was clearly "born" there. Remember, Paul Denton is the original. The others are the clones.
We were told JC was the only successful clone of Paul. The only one to survive. But, after playing Invisible Wars, or looking at Area 51 in Deus Ex, clearly this wasn't entirely true.
I don't think pure democracy is part of capitalism, its mostly part of anarchist communism. If extreme capitalism means extreme liberty then there is no point of having democracy since there is no state, everything is privatized. Soviet communism did not work for best of the people but for the best of the leaders, i would call that fascism. Systems always work for the best of the people who have power, I don't like idea of "kind king".
The four endings are extremes of types of government.
Helos = Communism (Everyone is equal and listened to)
Iluminati =Capitalism (The rich rule, the poor have little power)
Templar = Theocracy ( Anyone who doesn't conform is killed)
Omar= Anarchy (Only the strongest survive)
MasterLPG 3 weeks ago
Comment removed
PWNJoker 3 months ago
I know Ophelia is the name of a moon of Uranus and the romens named there gods after planets
slipers100 3 months ago
This may be a stupid question, but whi the hell is ophelia?
ikosabre 4 months ago
@ikosabre Ophelia is basically their stand-in for God. One of the philosophical foundations of Deus Ex (and something backed up by human psychology) is that people like the idea of being watched and worship an omnipresence who punishes the wicked and praises the righteous. The Ophelia they created is sort of like a Bigger Brother, who watches over the populace and ensures order above all.
Axelgear2006 3 months ago
Well I got that much, but is there any reference to her in the rest of the game series that I have missed? Or is she something that can be found in the real human cultural history? like Helios or Daedalus. I'm just wondering if there is something more to the name and why it was chosen.
ikosabre 3 months ago
@ikosabre I don't believe it's a historical reference, no. Ophelia in Hamlet is the only historical name I can think of and it's not exactly relevant.
Axelgear2006 3 months ago
Ophelia totally exists. she was some black chick in my 3rd grade class
Blackhawk213v 4 months ago
@Blackhawk213v And you married her.
benos 4 months ago
Jews
gdlksim 4 months ago
I remember when I got this game... haha when I was a lil kid and all I did was kill everyone and this is the ending I got thanks for posting bro
joeserrano559 4 months ago
What a nightmare world.
MrFakeGangster 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I never asked for this.
Theowest 4 months ago
Is he basically talking about a female God?
XMisterXPumpkinX 5 months ago
Well robotic hand and so on is allright,you will be still human.So scratch the templars.With your brain connected instantly to the supercomputer,you can be easily controlled and therefore loose your free will,so scratch the helios ending.And with illuminati,they will secretly rule,but you will live relatively free and mainly with your own mind.So this ending wins for me.
BodybuilderCZ 5 months ago
@anteroXBash, I own Deus ex 3, only one thing, I have yet to play it, I need to wait another day unofrtunately. but considering what friends have said, and the gameplay I have seen, I'd say the new one has better gameplay.
Adam is pretty cool even though he isn't a denton, they have had their go, its time to move on, and I respect that.
Deus Ex 3 is before the first one, it takes place in 2027, where augmentations first start. Its mech augs. Purity first, a group, try to stop the augmentations.
Maddo3456 5 months ago
@brighton1968 Deus ex isnt the character, thats the game name, the character is JC Denton
Maddo3456 5 months ago
@Maddo3456 Brush up on your memes, dawg. :P
Henroidt 5 months ago
@Maddo3456 hey mado quick queestion what do you think about the new deus ex? is it better worse...do you think that the new protagonist is cool even though hes not a denton? and last question is deus 3 passed between 1 and 2 or after 2 or before 1? i think its either between 1 and 2 because they still have cities untorn by war or maybe its before deus 1 (but thats very unlickely even though they said JC was 25 in the new game)
anteroXBash 5 months ago
Sorry if this is obvious or old, but I just thought of this and wanted to share.
The four endings are extremes of types of government.
Helos = Communism (Everyone is equal and listened to)
Iluminati =Capitalism (The rich rule, the poor have little power)
Templar = Theocracy ( Anyone who doesn't conform is killed)
Omar= Anarchy (Only the strongest survive)
OnePieceOfEight 5 months ago
No such thing as free will, the freest we can be is under a stable,non-warring civilization where our skills can be utilized until their function is no longer needed. We live in nature,what some people forget. We can guid humanity or allow our base instincts to destroy the ability to utilize all human variety in skill,insight,intelligence,etc. This is why totalitarians with their control over trade and economy limits the ability to be as close to free as we can ever be- free to self realize and
CharlieALabtech 5 months ago
I see a lot of people bringing up the term "free" and using it too broadly. Each ending proposes A freedom from something. Helios frees the world of ambitious individualism. The Templar free the world of machine interference on the human conscience. The Illuminati free the world of the extremes of the three other parties (hive mind, extremists, anarchy), providing society with the safety of laws, but at the cost of being monitored and ultimately confined. The Omar frees the world of government.
trioxybutane 5 months ago 3
@aidan456456 Its why I went with this ending, its not taking away free will, and theres always a chance that the invisable government can be beaten, at least thats how I took the endings.
skyknight2003 6 months ago
Its always good to name something after a girl who went insane
Redem10 6 months ago
After watching this I instantly went and listened to Judas Priest - Electric Eye
KaraBulut99 6 months ago
I chose Illuminati! :)
ReclusiarchLP 6 months ago
Fuck the NWO
Gothic2194 6 months ago
@Gothic2194 You mean WTO?
JCDenton112788 6 months ago
This ending represents ultimate capitalism to me. You make your own success, unfortunately under the watchful eye of Big Brother, in this case Ophelia.
A scary ending, less bad than the Templar or Omar endings though. I say scary because citizens are monitored 24/7 really and at what point in this regime could we say we are free?
Moorpheus19 6 months ago
@Moorpheus19 What about the Helios ending?
xDraconianKingx 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
One day, there was a man named Jesus Christ. Today, he is known as Joe Aka MysteryGuitarMan. He did many miracles, but he came to warn humanity of their wickedness. It didn’t have to be this way. He then died at the cross bearing their sin at the age of 32. He rose from the dead 3 days later holding the keys of death and hell. He gave one key to the man with the white stone, and this key is HELL. Copy and paste this or you will die and go to hell.
jasonextreme 7 months ago
Yeah, three shitty endings to choose from. Deus Ex: Maximum Fail
omma911 8 months ago
the first time i played the game back in 2000(the first) i went straight against them even i didnt heard of ILLUMINATI that time i knew acording to the game they are evil thanks for deus ex that taught me the conspiracy theory and helped me to see the world with two eyes when i was only 13
riot300 8 months ago
@riot300
Have you ever posted on IMDB? This post reminds me of one over there made a while ago, where a youngling was telling us how this game changed his life.
dethmaul 7 months ago
@dethmaul
lol never ,it seems that a lot of gamers tell the same thing
riot300 7 months ago
@riot300
DX is that great :)
dethmaul 7 months ago
So this is a good ending?
DuketheAssassin 8 months ago
@DuketheAssassin This is a NWO ending.
wcdornez 8 months ago
@DuketheAssassin yes
Antarayan 8 months ago
@DuketheAssassin
You have this, or:
-Humanity becomes a Hive mind with no longer self, but very advanced and peaceful.
-The templars win and a new dark age begins, maybe without an end.
-Humanity mostly dies, the planet is wasted and only the Omar live on.
So yeah, this is a good ending.
escopeteroce 7 months ago
GOOGLE
Muffinfordinner 8 months ago
In the game Ophelia was the Illuminati's Orbital Platform i.e. space station and command center for all operations within the Illuminati. It had an Aquinus node if not several within it. Alex Denton was right about them though, the Illuminati even in this game disquise tyranny with so call free institutions and lies. That's why I don't like this ending.
Nightshift10000 9 months ago
i think deus ex is a pretty cool guy, he fights conspiracies and doesnt afraid of gunther hermann
brighton1968 9 months ago 82
@brighton1968 WIN!!!!
L1MB091 7 months ago
@brighton1968 Deus ex is the name of the series the main character in this game is alex denton who is really a clone of JC Denton
jpchryslered 5 months ago
@jpchryslered You've been trolled. He was referencing an old internet meme that started with Halo and Master Chief. The original, flawed statement was as follows. "I think Halo is a pretty cool guy. eh kills aleins and doesnt afraid of anything."
Just look up "Pretty Cool Guy" and you can learn all about the meme that is used for all kinds of things.
neocrimsoncloud 5 months ago
@brighton1968
"Deus Ex" is a Latin expression and the name of the game. Alex Denton is the main character.
MultiBOZA 4 months ago
@MultiBOZA
I think you should definitely expand your internet culture.
Check "knowyourmeme . com/memes/pretty-cool-guy"
Fierce0Deity0Link 4 months ago
@Fierce0Deity0Link
Oh, I am sorry I use normal expressions!
MultiBOZA 4 months ago
@MultiBOZA I am not blaming you, but you clearly didn't understand what he was refering to.
Fierce0Deity0Link 4 months ago
@brighton1968 WHAT....the....frick?
foxh8er 4 months ago
@brighton1968 His name isn't Deus Ex...that's just the Game's Title...
Lozzer70 4 months ago
@Lozzer70 Search for Pretty Cool Guy.
ThePhantomnaut 4 months ago
@brighton1968 Trolly? :D
Shikamaru524 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@brighton1968 Trolly? :D
Shikamaru524 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@brighton1968 Trolly? :D
Shikamaru524 1 month ago
" What a shame." -J. C. Denton
rezaka116 9 months ago 3
@TheOpenMinded12460 It would have been great if it looked like it was promising and then that floating robot shoots down the elevator!
TheOpenminded12460 10 months ago
Whats the story of this game?
LegoDinosaurMonkey 10 months ago
@LegoDinosaurMonkey two words: conspiracy theories
Peacetiger1 10 months ago
@Peacetiger1 ... Oh right...
LegoDinosaurMonkey 10 months ago
Honestly, the only thing that makes the ending seem "bad" is the music at the end, but that alone is enough. It seems like they were TRYING to guilt the player in every ending but the JC Denton one (and even that doesn't really feel GOOD). I loved this game, but hated what they did with the endings.
Puglous 11 months ago
@Puglous Why do you hate the endings? They give a very simple message: there is no such thing as a "happy ending." For something to be elevated, something else has to be lowered. For someone to rise, another must vacate their place to make room. There is no ideal that is objectively better than all the others, no matter how many wars are fought over them. There is always a downside. Making choices is not about getting the perfect outcome, it's about getting to the outcome you can live with.
AlhazredsGamingGoo 11 months ago 60
@AlhazredsGamingGoo SAID:"For something to be elevated, something else has to be lowered."
In terms of simple Gravity (physics) your statement is true. In terms of superiority complexes, this is true. In terms of real society, this is not true. The requirement to oppress and dominate is separate and not compatible with human rights, innovation for the good or truth or right. Your statement is cynical in a way that is ingrained in peoples' minds, only to profit those at what you call "elevated".
waterspindle 5 months ago
@waterspindle I can just as easily say your statement is based in optimism in a way that is ingrained in peoples' minds, only to comfortably deny reality and better live with how unfair it is. No amount of philosophy can change the fact that resources are not unlimited. There is not enough for everyone to have everything. Until you remove Scarcity as an obstacle, morality changes nothing.
AlhazredsGamingGoo 5 months ago
@AlhazredsGamingGoo I, for one, am not arguing about the finite quantity of resources.
I disagree and infer from my reading that there is right now enough. For everyone.
The disallowed non-conveyance of said "enough" is a problem.
There are many reasons for not disseminating or the allowance for survival:
1) There is morality in allowance of food and none in intentional starvation.
2) Capitalism cannot see profit.
3) Right now, globally, farmers are paid to dump milk, governments let food rot.
waterspindle 5 months ago
@AlhazredsGamingGoo
So, we have to change that. It's possible.
Zeta439 4 months ago
@AlhazredsGamingGoo
Yeah, I know they send a message...that's precisely what I hated about them. What I liked about Invisible War was that, up until the endings, the developers didn't try to shove their philosphical/moral cock down the player's throat at all, so their presence felt invisible. But with these endings, they fall into the trap of acting like they're smart enough to predict the results of your actions a century in advance as well as offer a between-the-lines commentary.
Puglous 3 months ago
Yes... everyone on Earth is now happy... because they know what happens if they are not...
Zardul 11 months ago
She... that mean Satan is female.. ohhh my ... your not my god and will never pray to you, look what have you done stupid woman ! all these humans are sexually disoriented, haveing sex with the same type, sex with animals, sex with death, sex rituals in many dark forms, without any feeling.. just the bang bang to suck out our life energy, our kids are beeing raped by reptilians and other satanic forces, wake the fuck up people, THIS IS REAL LIFE ! RIGHT IN YOUR FACE, EVEN DIRECT WITH THIS GAME !
WesentlichesWesen 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Hi! a complete comment is on /watch?v=zeboqg4t9vs Bye.
lemons604 11 months ago
Everything Daedalus says in the first game comes true in this ending.
YourProfessor 1 year ago
This ending is extremely tempting, simply because it isn't as extreme as the others.
Look at it this way: everything is OK with the world, except for the fact that someone is watching you shower, pee, and think.
IDNA222 1 year ago
Could the shadowy figure be morgan everett?
vteam02 1 year ago
Top game,cant wait for the new one,perfect balance of story,puzzles,gadgets and shooter.Although the first one had really bad foley,cant remember which was the worst ending?
sysrq120 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Free inexhaustible energy is real!But the Establishment doesn't want ppl to know this,Get the blueprints for a real Magnet motor free enegy machine at LT-MAGNET-MOTORdotCOM ,Join the revolution!
robwilli4546 1 year ago
@TheOpenMinded12460 That robot looks like the one on Star Wars KOTOR 2! WTF?!
TheOpenminded12460 1 year ago
@TheOpenminded12460
which part od the video?
50CENT123GO 1 year ago
Comment removed
ReyDeSalsa 1 year ago
And obviously all my posts need to be read from bottom to top.
ReyDeSalsa 1 year ago
This ending is the only one that actually allows the human race to maintain its identity and ability to evolve, and would be the most positive one available for the future of the human race as a whole. Well, unless you count the Oman ending.... but that's a very grim future indeed.
Outside the game though, I'd hope the human race would evolve beyond these choices, either through conflict, technology, strife, or (the most unlikely) the good deeds of its citizens.
ReyDeSalsa 1 year ago
The cons to this ending are a complete loss of privacy and complete governmental control by one ruling body.
The cons to the Templar ending are the prospect of living in constant terror of being branded a deviant or a threat at any time for any reason.
The cons to the Helios ending are that the human race may indeed become completely equal and cease all struggles... it is the end of evolution and leaves the human race vulnerable to outside influence (aliens?).
ReyDeSalsa 1 year ago
This ending I'd think is the best one for a couple of reasons: Human nature will always inevitably tear down its own organizations. A benevolent dictatorship has always been and may always be the form of government with the highest chance of success through centuries or even millennia.
ReyDeSalsa 1 year ago
@ReyDeSalsa Interesting. I find this to be an odd suggestion. namely the description of the Illuminati as being 'benevolent' dictators. They seem far closer to being a classic Oligarchy than the former. If anything is closest to being a benevolent dictator surely that is Helios?
SentinelConvergence 1 year ago
@SentinelConvergence I liken Helios to pure Communism actually. THe kind Marx said was impossible.
ReyDeSalsa 1 year ago
@ReyDeSalsa As in a dictatorship of the proletariat or a kind of pure, direct democracy irrespective of social stratification?
SentinelConvergence 1 year ago
@SentinelConvergence The latter. Essentially Utopia... but it halts evolution in its tracks beyond growing into more of a hive mind. I don't think there are really many people who would trade their identity for utopia.
ReyDeSalsa 1 year ago
The suggestion of this ending being the 'good' one is horrible.
Seigfreid 1 year ago
I found this probably the best alternative. Life as bad as we know it today, well, compared to forced nano-infusion, total extinction of humanity as we know it, or religious fascism; this is not as bad as it may seem.
YesusFist 1 year ago
1984, should I say more?
TearsOfWar1 1 year ago
Wait.. I killed Heilios in Metroid prime 3...
LOL
smiith5 1 year ago
this may be a game but thats a good speech
TheHumanUnity 1 year ago
How many endings are in this game
Theroguesunit6 1 year ago
@Theroguesunit6 i never played the game XD
TheHumanUnity 1 year ago
Oh sorry I didn't know
Theroguesunit6 1 year ago
There is no "good" ending.
silverhawks 1 year ago
anyone thinking that this game is trying to convince people that the Illuminati is actually controlling the world is an idiot, its a fucking game people.
PX6DEVASTATER 1 year ago
@PX6DEVASTATER basicly it does
bloodcorer 1 year ago
@bloodcorer I fail to see how it does unless people take it way to damn seriously
PX6DEVASTATER 1 year ago
@PX6DEVASTATER Thats exactly how the government wants you to think
BSagitarius 1 year ago
in what game did chad launch the space station and when in the game do we find out bout it?
kashywashy 1 year ago
opherlia is whore of babylon
CasPioneer 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
another mind poisoning game..wants u to believe in the illuminati..fuck that shit
catfarishsux 1 year ago
@catfarishsux its fact they exist as its in history text books today............................ LOL fail
2zacki55sback2 1 year ago
@catfarishsux Also you can search for multiple videos on youtube which have presidents and high governing officials admitting to be a member
2zacki55sback2 1 year ago
This is how it "really" ends.
gwynek 1 year ago 4
@gwynek There is no "real" ending
SgtMustang 1 year ago
For those who don't know: "Ophelia" is the Illuminati controlled Aquinas protocol (which would have been Helios) which Chad situated in a space station orbiting Earth. The man in the reflection might not be anyone in particular, but it basically means that, unbeknownst to everyone, there is actually one person pulling all the strings.
PrivationProductions 1 year ago 52
@PrivationProductions Aquinas, i.e catholic.
LoveJoyPeaceComfort 9 months ago
hmm.. i have a memory of this with an Alien looking through the ships window.. guess i were wrong
Yeyinde 1 year ago
The Illuminati are liars!!!
darkness007666 1 year ago 4
i never saw that planet when i finished deus ex2 illuminati ending
legopooper24 1 year ago
This makes the Illuminati look good, which is a shame it seems they aren't as rational in real life.
Hell, if the Illuminati were really like this, they would let me go to Mars with a Solar Passport.
jasonextreme 1 year ago 16
@jasonextreme What real life illuminate? The illuminate doesn't exist
zombie900 7 months ago
@zombie900 The illuminati did exist, in ancient times. Whether they still do is debatable and ultimately futile. Sells a lot of books/advertising though.
jacksawild 7 months ago
@pratt123 The Templar ending: the human race is plunged back to a time or Religious fervor and control, the world won't 'right itself' into a world like we know today, because there would be no intellectual thought, brought about by the Reformation in Europe in the 15/16/17th century!
voodoolobster10 2 years ago
Maybe but eventually I can see a end to such a period brought by social/economic change.
It will happen eventually. Just a matter of time.
Still you are right. All the endings suck. I tend to just disregard this game's ending and stick with Deus Ex's endings.
pratt123 2 years ago 4
@pratt123 The Helios ending is arguably the best of them all.
SgtMustang 1 year ago 3
Lol at everyone giving thumbs down to whoever likes this ending.
FractalBolt 2 years ago
Sick to soo oldsql Gees like NSF came controlling Illuminanti VIVA LES OMARES!
Retroexperto 2 years ago
wait global democratic state not a global fascist state wait i like the iluminati if they are democratic
Kyle15bitch 2 years ago
With Ophilia the Illuminati would have a near complete control of information. Therefore manipulating a democracy to do what you want is very easy. So it's a bit of both.
MichaelJ192 2 years ago
I hope all of Illuminati dies a slow, painful death
Miskatakeable 2 years ago 3
killed by guys in frog suits!
ingarsss 2 years ago
My favorite ending, the others are varying levels of insane.
Fireworkatheart 2 years ago 2
This ending is indeed the best for everyone. It basically shows that the cycle of the Iron Law of Oligarchy operates pretty smoothly and that Nicolette's religious tinkering ...caused some to worship a golden bull. But that pill is not as bitter to swallow since as you well put it: "the others are varying levels of insane."
aftermathematics365 2 years ago
This ending is orwellian though, total surveillance in a fascist civilization where no one can resist it. I think all the endings are bad in this Deus Ex 2. Its very pessimistic about the choices people have and the future of the world.
Saurik2 2 years ago 82
Have to agree with you. The JC Denton ending is the canon good one (if there was a canon) but basically it goes against the first game's canon good ending. Helios may be a nice and fine computer but I wouldn't want it controlling my behavior or the minds of humanity.
Sounds like a nice gaudy version of the Borg to me.
pratt123 2 years ago 4
Y'know that was exactly what I was going to say to someone who called it a good ending, it is like the borg. I mean thats what it would be, some hive mind and everyone would be ants.
Saurik2 2 years ago
Thats the thing, with the first game you could argue any end was the good end because all of them were morally relative, with invisible war.....they not only dumbed down the game, the plot but the endings too. So you have good(?) - the hive mind, bad-fascism, bad-holocaust and apocalypse, bad-religeous fundamentalism. I could write an essay on Deus Ex but you know what I mean.
Saurik2 2 years ago
I would be the first to read that essay.
I gave the endings some thought and I think the Templar ending is the best. The Illuminati and JC Denton endings have prosperity but being part of the Borg or being in a 1984/Brave New World setting is harder to break so that true liberty can be achieved. The Holocaust ending is the worst since everyone is dead.
The Templar ending is the most open to change. The Dark Ages / Crusades were like this period. Look where we are today.
pratt123 2 years ago
Thats something i've not thought about before but your right, with that ending then at least their is the chance that liberty and democracy will be achieved again. Heres hoping the next Warren Spector is working at Eidos Montreal, but I doubt it, I think Deus Ex was a one off unfortunately, it should have been.
Saurik2 2 years ago
@pratt123 you're right to say that the 'Borg' and 1984 options are flawed, but I think each ending is pretty terrible.
The 'Borg ending': shared consciousness leads to everyone knowing everyone else's intentions- how do people reproduce? Death of Species.
The 1984 ending: wealthy single nation, but not true democracy.
Holocaust ending: simple enough everyone's dead
voodoolobster10 2 years ago
That was the problem I had with IW's story - it assumed all the endings from DX occurred and it...really negated the whole point of arguing which ending was good/bad/best/worthwhile. I really didn't like IW's ending, especially JC's ending.
Yusuke1096 2 years ago
I totally agree, it was quite shambolic where they took the plot in Invisible War. You should watch Harvery Smiths interview with Warren Spectre, he explains a lot about why they went in that direction.
Saurik2 2 years ago
I'm not sure, I kind of like the Illuminati ending; while Orwellian, it seems the Illuminati in Deus Ex is genuinely concerned with the well being of Earth's people.
RudeDan 2 years ago 4
It's actually a bit clever game design. It makes you think that you messed up and caused the downfall of humanity's freedom, so you think you lost and should start over. They use the ending to make you play again, basically.
Mynameisnotooo 2 years ago
Why replay, if you could change everything in the last level of the game?
tokomak15 2 years ago
@Saurik2 The Helios ending appears to be the "best" of them all, considering a computer would not have any bias, and thus would not be able to be corrupted.
SgtMustang 1 year ago
@SgtMustang JC Denton was well intentioned, but the Helios ending is horrifying because people will never agree upon how to live so long as we retain our humanity and individuality. There is no way to plug in an algorithm and coalesce the infinite and diverse ethical and political philosophies of mankind into one coherent position. For Helios to work at all, we'd have to be manipulated into functioning as a hive mind.
SecondsToLast 1 year ago
@SecondsToLast Can we be certain than we would think in the same patterns and manners if we can truly understand what it is to be another? In a situation were to be un-empathetic is impossible? It seems to me that if we can truly understand what it is like to be another human being, it would be awfully difficult to act in any other fashion than co-operatively.
SentinelConvergence 1 year ago
Comment removed
elfhara 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Saurik2 I totally agree with you. But I believe this was intentional. If you think about it, every outcome in this game, is the most discouraging version among homogenous alternatives.
elfhara 1 year ago
@Saurik2 I totally agree with you. But I believe this was intentional. If you think about it, every outcome in this game, is the most discouraging version among homogenous alternatives.
elfhara 1 year ago
@Saurik2 The Helios ending is the one that's really Orwellian. The Illuminati may monitor you with security cameras, but at least they can't see into your head.
SecondsToLast 1 year ago
@Saurik2 Not my business, but do not confuse corporatist, totalitarian nationalist policy to surveillance and free market. That's liberal capitalism, well yes, surveillance, but Illuminati in DX always tried to achieve capitalist hegemony in which they were on the top, with some illusionary freedom, which fascism lacks completely.
markkuwerkko 1 year ago
@markkuwerkko Quite, the Illuminati seemed far closer to being your traditional oligarchy than being particularly fascistic, they lack a number of qualities that would make them the latter.
SentinelConvergence 1 year ago
@SentinelConvergence Oligarchy has clear hierarchy and chain of command. While the DX 1 Illuminati had an belief in which only the most intelligent one will lead ( or enlightened). For example, Beth Duclare was able to converse and argue with Everett quite freely, something oligarchy wont allow. And think about Lucius DeBeers. Would he be prisoned in ice if he used to have TOTAL control over his subjects? I think not.
markkuwerkko 1 year ago
@Saurik2 eh, they are ok. I would just join the most evil, heartless military unit and just do the orders ^^
miisssiieekk 1 year ago
@Saurik2 1984 is socialist, and the Helios ending is actually good.
Zero2562130 1 year ago
@Zero2562130 1984 isnt socialist the probaly most "likeble" model would be communist
ImperialGuard9001 1 year ago
@ImperialGuard9001
no, 1984 is socialist, communism implies the idea of a weaker government.
>"likeble"
likeable
Jenkstill 11 months ago
@Jenkstill
You don't even know what socialism even means, it actually means a worker's (us) democracy which we currently live in a democracy for the wealthy few called "Capitalism"/
zonilo1 11 months ago
@Jenkstill 1984 is not socialist.
Socialism is about about distributing resources evenly to the people and providing their basic needs (education, health care etc.) freely through the government.
1984 was totalitarianism, complete control by the government of all facets of life.
allankles 11 months ago
@ImperialGuard9001 In Communism everyone is equal. There is a hiearchy in 1984, therefore it's not communist.
Zero2562130 11 months ago
@Zero2562130 Indeed no one in 19th 20th 21th century was communist! Not USSR not China not North Korea etc. In fact if I had to say those that came close to communism were anarchists and sindicalists or socialist comunes like in Paris or Spain during Civil War or Ukraine during Civil War in parts of Ukraine
ImperialGuard9001 11 months ago
@Zero2562130
1984 was also a caricature of Stalinism as well.
zonilo1 11 months ago
@zonilo1 They're two different things, though, real communism and stalinism.
Zero2562130 11 months ago
@Saurik2 It isnt fascist since Iluminati dont operate that way is certnly orwellian but not fascist they prefer to the force behind the power not the power itself
ImperialGuard9001 1 year ago
@Saurik2 THATS WHY IS THERE GLOBAL WARMING :D
HUNAdamus94 11 months ago
@Saurik2 Ehh I understand how it's Orwellian but the Inner Party was corrupt, unlike (theoretically) the Illuminati.
Litmus2336 11 months ago
@Saurik2 how is it fascist with no war?
Trentonater47 11 months ago
@Saurik2 Resist what? What is there to resist? There is peace and order. The system largely operates under laissez-faires capitalism, with restrictions only put in place for the benefit of everyone. Nanite technology is now available for everyone to use, with no adverse effects, catapulting forward the human lifespan and its benefits. There is no war, no poverty.
It's Orwellian, sure, and it has its downsides. It's not the best, but it's also still better than today.
Axelgear2006 10 months ago
@Saurik2 Denton ending isnt so bad, i would go for it.
mjshikeli 8 months ago
Luv JC and Omar endings much more, IMHO they are both much more realistic. Either go opensource or screw everything) What do you mean by "insane" and "favorite". If you mean "favorite"="present reality" and "insane"="progress", I agree to you =)
BTW you have one chance to interface with Nicolette directly in black gate and, just for fun, try to put her unconcious and then finally kill her. Listen to the comments =)
lin545 2 years ago
Personally I wouldn't call having all of my individuality drained and becoming nothing but an empty ghost in a group consciousness "progress". JC is a pawn of Helios and the Omar are just a group of crazy cyborgs with speech impediments, don't even get me started on the Templars. The Illuminati are the only ones who can sympathize with humanity and, from that, really deduce what needs to be done. That's the reason I decided to put them into a position of power instead of anyone else.
Fireworkatheart 2 years ago 7
Helios is a facilitator only. Everyone keeps their individuality, the only difference is the level of knowledge each individual has access to is both more broad and more intimate. I prefer the JC ending with the single stipulation that everyone is free to choose whether they will merge with Helios or not.
matticusprime 2 years ago
What happened to Morgan Everett???
SilverTounge85 2 years ago
He got old and probably is chilling in de Beers' tank.
aftermathematics365 2 years ago
Alex Denton can be found inside a tank at Area 51 in Deus Ex 1....how did he get out from there? Never explained...
SilverTounge85 2 years ago
he probaly got released somehow dont know how he did it
coolcat2994 2 years ago
He was clearly "born" there. Remember, Paul Denton is the original. The others are the clones.
We were told JC was the only successful clone of Paul. The only one to survive. But, after playing Invisible Wars, or looking at Area 51 in Deus Ex, clearly this wasn't entirely true.
JKSmellie 2 years ago
I don't think pure democracy is part of capitalism, its mostly part of anarchist communism. If extreme capitalism means extreme liberty then there is no point of having democracy since there is no state, everything is privatized. Soviet communism did not work for best of the people but for the best of the leaders, i would call that fascism. Systems always work for the best of the people who have power, I don't like idea of "kind king".
miiiikku 2 years ago 3
Ever seen Demolition man? Be well.
victimofgov 2 years ago
this world is kinda blessing
all the wars we are fighting now are forgotten and we live as a one nation and live in peace.
Someone has all the power but people will still live without fear
Patruiq 2 years ago