@tomatowatcher = meaningless existence ultimately. As human sensory reality is insane, the correct premise is "imagination". My position is perfectly suited for this premise, is yours?
@tomatowatcher on iPad this is a mess. I do not perceive u "defeating my position" at all. U claim that u "stripped down my position" but my position is stripped by default, by me. I recall u having no retort for my correct assertion that no afterlife = mea
@tomatowatcher the truth is, you are outclassed (most likely a kid)
you insist on "proof" - that is to say, you insist on something that can be quantified through the use of the scientific method. and what do we know of this method, ultimately? science cannot explain itself...it provides no answers as to why we are here, where we are going, how anything came to be, what a thought is...yet you have immense FAITH in its absoluteness!
offer up a stronger logical process than i have done, or leave
if your existence is meaningless, then there is no logical reason not to murder everyone you know, in horrific fashion. there is no reason, ULTIMATELY, not to eat your own feces
if nothing means anything, then you are being a hypocrite by even sitting there, expressing a single thought
your very position contradicts itself logically
come on man, wake up already. its easy, and everybody knows it, underneath their egos
@tomatowatcher so, what you are doing is reducing humanity, and the entire spectrum of its experiences, since the dawn of time, to a series of chemical processes
were just a bunch of random molecules, interacting with other molecules, according to you
that, is your truth? that is what you said to the girl that you love, when she asks you if you love her?
thats ludicrous
my criticism stands. you have no logical retort for it. come on, man
Not random, but a bunch of molecules forming a sophisticated biological machine depending mostly on chemical and electrical processes. The brain being a computer and the mind a being self enhancing software. There is no reason to think there is anything else. No indication what so ever.
Aw how cute, he thinks I'm a man. My life-partner agrees with me.
Your criticism's stand: you haven't debunked a single argument.
You basically just say how terrible my world view looks to you.
@tomatowatcher my position asserts that *logically*, there is no reason to adhere to any form of virtuous or noble action whatsoever, other than a (highly complex) series of chemical reactions. furthermore, there is ultimately no reason, logically, according to your world view, to do *anything*, really. and, that being said, an atheist contradicts himself by doing anything at all, as if it means anything
Hunger gives a good motivation to do something (like making food). If you get hungry enough you won't care about if there is a meaning of life or not. Your hole argument depends on all our motivations coming from spirituality. While in fact our mind is stuck in a body with lots of worldly needs. Those needs govern most of our wishes which gives us motivation. We have build in self-preservation, that overrides every other thought until all our body 's needs are satisfied.
@tomatowatcher yes, so you are saying that humanity is no more than a series of chemical reactions. which is obscene. also contradictory, because you 1 dont TRULY believe that at all and 2 you clearly dont live your live in a fashion that is congruent with that belief system. furthermore, your position offers no logical or philosophical rebuttal for people to devour and defecate on each other, if only the chemical processes dictated that it must be so. i mean, its ridiculous, man
@EdenTheoryRocks You are attacking a straw-man! (are you that desperate?)
A human mind works like software, its commands are transmitted via chemical reaction and/or electrical signals. The decisions are NOT derived from chemical reactions. They come from parts of the brain similar to programs (acquired via learning or inherited instinct).
We usually don't defecate on each other because: 1) we have empathy (mostly instinct)
and 2) because we want to avoid the revenge(learned) 3)dislike&disgust
you still have no ultimate logical rebuttal for there being any reason why choking everyone you know with their own feces is any different from saving the world, if the end result is the same
@tomatowatcher as choking people and saving the world would end in the same result, if can be argued (correctly) that a logical extremist has every right to quantify them equally
certainly the popular perception of a "scientific-method-worshiping atheist"'s belief system will dictate that there is no afterlife, if there is no afterlife, the end result is nothing (science also dictates humanity will certainly become extinct)
time loop cannot be quantified so the debate is "God" vs "time loop"
@tomatowatcher clearly, a "time-loop" would fall at least into vastly similar intellectual territory as "an entity which exists outside of time and space / "God'". the debate would be which is a more logical system
what is wrong with the term "logical extremist"? carry out a line of reasoning to its extreme
if you assert that my position cannot be backed up by the existence of an "imaginary bodiless entity", then simply propose a more logical alternative
@tomatowatcher my retort: what you consider reality, i consider entirely "imaginary"
i assert that our situation is actually so ridiculous, to the point where NOTHING makes ANY SENSE AT ALL IF YOU REALLY THINK ABOUT IT. the truth must resemble a game, or test, or ruse. we cant determine origin, or destination, or meaning. this is not the real world
this debate is about logical extremes. how can you acknowledge my point, yet contradict it by saying "most people dont understand it, so its moot"?
NO this dabte is whether all people on earth would go crazy without a meaning of life.
I stripped all your arguments away until there was only a imaginary logical extremist entity
left.
Imaginary beings don't prove squat in reality.
You are just trying to change the subject because all your arguments evaporated.
People can understand logic but they don't make purely logical decisions. (remember instinct, empathy, learned behavior, procreation drive, self-preservation etc.)
I can't really comprehend why you would only assume there is two opinions of an afterlife. Many people take many positions on what happens after death, it's believed that there's a heaven, there's re-birth, reincarnation, agnosticism in which the person makes no assertion, and my personal view that you become what you were before you were born... nothing.
Just because I don't believe I'll be able to cherish those memories I made in life when I die doesn't mean that I find my life dismissive.
@DontDrinkTH3KoolAid rebirth, reincarnation, etc, can be lumped into the category of "returning to the source", which is, belief in "One God", which is my position (though i do not endorse "rebirth" etc). agnosticism can be more correctly interpreted as "atheism lite", and is dismissed as a position. if you believe that ultimately your works amount to "nothing", then it is contradictory for you to even put forth any statement at all, as it ultimately means "absolutely nothing", and is worthless
@EdenTheoryRocks The belief in a life or rebirth after death doesn't necessarily mean that a belief in god is required; take Buddhist for example, Taoism, and so on, all of which believes in an afterlife theory but no god.
Agnosticism could be considered lite atheism, but it can also be considered lite theism, it all depends on what the agnostic is leaning further towards.
And I never said my works amount to nothing after death, they just no longer serve me a purpose; (continue.)
@EdenTheoryRocks But just because they no longer serve me a purpose doesn't mean I shouldn't try and better this world for all who live after me. Doing good will give me reassurance when I'm taking my last breaths so I can say to myself "I didn't waste my life, I made someone's better.
Even if the work you do doesn't do any good for you it may do good for someone else. Such as if I were to create a cure for cancer but never became diagnosed with it, someone else still benefits from it.
@DontDrinkTH3KoolAid in regards to buddhism, taoism etc, it is fair to view any belief in the afterlife as roughly being equivalent in the belief of "God", for the purposes of a debate on atheism. yes, agnosticism is not really a position, depending on either way the person actually leans. your view on "helping people" sounds nice, but as ultimately humanity will become extinct, so too will all of their works ultimately amount to nothing, no matter how far down the line
@EdenTheoryRocks Afterlife is no way equivalent to a god besides the facts that gods and afterlives have been tossed into the same stories, that's like saying the store I intend on going to later is equivalent to friend because he's been there.
What's your point about us eventually being extinct? Life has been progressing its self for over 500 million years, nothing has stopped it before. Life is enjoyable, and that's the only reason I need to enjoy it. If you need a god, that's your problem.
@DontDrinkTH3KoolAid "God" may be most properly defined as being "an entity which exists outside of time and space". therefore, it is most properly logically comprehended as being *one* entity, and so any form of pantheism may be discarded. an "afterlife", if existing outside of time and space, must logically be considered to fall under the same basic principles. therefore, proper belief in "afterlife" = monotheism
@DontDrinkTH3KoolAid as per your second point, if you cannot comprehend the equation: all things humanity-related within time and space inevitably amount to nothing, therefore all acts are of equal meaning (nothing), therefore making love = taking a crap on a pile of puke = world peace = genocide = PURE INSANITY, then you have no right to participate in this conversation. furthermore, if all acts are ultimately meaningless by your doctrines, you contradict yourself by expressing anything at all
Whether or not you believe in an afterlife doesn't change the fact that there either is or is not one. Another thing it does not change is that simply saying "I believe in an afterlife" doesn't suddenly give meaning to life. If you believe in a god, and believe that that god created life and an afterlife, what was the point or purpose of the life to begin with? What is the purpose in creating a world of people whose only guarantee in their lives are that they will die anyway?
@KOICrowz that is a difficult philosophical question, and i will do my best to answer it plainly. What do we know as fact? We know the brain is programmed to "flash-forward" through a person's entire memory bank at the moment of death. We know all things physical are reduced to nothing. We know there must be an afterlife, or this life is utterly meaningless. What rough conclusion can we make from these observations? Your mind reflects on the actions you have taken in your life, at death.
@EdenTheoryRocks You didn't address my question as to why an afterlife gives purpose to life. If there is an afterlife, then that would truly make this life pointless, seeing as you live on anyway. No belief offers any actual ultimate purpose, no matter how you spin it. Afterlife or not, we have no reason to exist, but since we do, we might as well enjoy it.
@KOICrowz you are operating under the assumption that this life has no influence on the afterlife, which is logically incorrect, as that would dictate that this life is just as meaningless as it would be according to atheist dogma. Therefore, it is logical to interpret that the actions one takes in this life have ultra-important consequences in regards to the afterlife, which is precisely what Orthodox Christian dogma has dictated for thousands of years.
@EdenTheoryRocks Actually I was under the assumption that you believed this life's choices to influence the next. The choices made in this life having some sort of effect on the afterlife still does not give this one purpose though. The question then becomes, why not just be born into that eternal life, whatever you may believe it to be, and have to suffer the consequences of your actions? If you believe in an afterlife with those consequences, then life is just a meaningless roadblock.
@KOICrowz you are perceiving "the afterlife" through the context of a modern realist human perspective, as opposed to the perspective of an eternal soul. That is illogical. The question needs to be: "What is the belief system which endows this life with the most possible meaning?"
@EdenTheoryRocks I'm coming at this from the only logical perspective: "If there is an afterlife, what point is there to this one?" The fact remains that there is no ultimate purpose, no matter what you choose to believe. Also, that question is simply horrible. If I created the most elaborate and wonderful belief system in the world tomorrow, that wouldn't suddenly make it right to believe in or somehow better, because it is still a lie that devalues the real world and our real, finite lives.
@KOICrowz the only thing that devalues your life is hardcore scientific atheist dogma, as it dictates that the end result of your entire life, and of all peoples' lives, is absolutely nothing. Following this logic leads one to the perfectly reasonable conclusion that anything you, as an atheist, says or does, is actually equal in meaning to the most deplorable and ridiculous acts you can imagine, such as mass murder, or public defecation etc
@EdenTheoryRocks Your logic is so flawed that it's honestly sort of ridiculous. Humans value the finite more than the infinite, it's just how we are. For example, who do you think actually values water more, the rich child who will never have to work a day in their life and has ready access to it, or the poor child that has to walk a mile for dirty river water every day? Something being finite, such as life, doesn't devalue it, it does the exact opposite.
@KOICrowz that is how the unenlightened human perceives what they experience through their physical senses. However, upon hardcore introspective contemplation, the wise man will come to the conclusion that all things material are ultimately meaningless, and therefore uses his highest, and most simple, logical and philosophical resources to discern the "hidden" meaning to such an existence, which is *beyond time and space*.
@EdenTheoryRocks All things material ARE ultimately meaningless, I've said that. That realization though doesn't somehow give weight to your argument that there is an afterlife. Your idea that there MUST be an afterlife is ridiculous and close-minded.
@KOICrowz that is absurd, as I have clearly demonstrated, logically, that if "this is all there is", then anything you say and do will ultimately lead to nothing at all, and furthermore, is equal in value to any ridiculous or cruel act I can imagine, such as pushing an old lady off of a cliff, or eating a baby etc. At this time, it is necessary for me to request that you "check yourself".
@EdenTheoryRocks If by "ultimately lead to nothing", you mean that once everything I effect or influence, including future generations possibly leading to extinction, are no longer living or experience that effect, then you are right. I don't think THAT far into the future though, as nobody can possibly comprehend thousands, millions, billions, etc. of years, and I try to focus more on my lifetime and a few future generations, and I form my actions and decisions around that focus.
I'm assuming your video is pretty good because it won't come up on my screen. I scrolled down to see the remarks you generated and it looks like you struck a nerve. Good job. Time for folks to wake up and have some meaningful discussion on the topic. Love and Light.
Our lives are the accumulation of what we have done. No more no less. To try and argue that without an afterlife our lives are meaningless is really dumb. Not all religions have an afterlife. there are far more than 2 choices. There is actually a simple answer here: say we have atheism on one hand and choosing 'a religion' on the other. There are infinite gods to worship.. Therefor your probability of being correct is very small if you choose between gods.
Im guessing that you're implying that there are a lot of gods. There is only one uncaused cause. Dont let dawkins rearrange common sense. There can only be one original. What you have are different names, from dif cultures Furthermore there are what were called gods. Not the god, but higher beings. You have to love the way the atheists believe theyve solved the riddle of life and meaning of ancient text with a single swing of ignorance
notice that youre replying to yet another comment with no reference to dawkins. i think dawkins ass rapes you in your mind or something. i say dog, you say dawkins. i say orange you say dawkins. i say ellie may, you say dawkins. after witnessing you do this over and over, i have to conclude that youre obsessed with richard dawkins. no one knows why & youre the only one who cares. next time you reply to a comment of mine. i will reply to yours with "dawkins!" whatever the hell that means.
This dude is a joke you guys!...he TYPES like he's intelligent and shit, but yet he TALKS like a fucktard....My guess is he has a friggin dictionary in front of him everytime he tries to answer to a comment on here. Trying his hardest to use the biggest words and to sound the smartest possible. Listen to him speak though, and it tells a whole other story...LMAO...He should speak the way he types and vice versa....
People can believe whatever they wish, which is exactly what he said. We have a choice, and he made his and I made mine too. No need to be all whiney about it, he was just being honest.
I like your music Eden but saying god exists is absurred. You don't know that god exists, and your constantly trying to make yourself sound more intelligent with big words. Do u have any idea what your defending? lol your telling me that an old man named moses was able to capture two of every animal and bring them onto a ship that he built with his own two hands? your telling me that you believe in a talking snake? thats stupid why do people believe that crap it makes no more sense than santa
thanks for listening to my songs. do you hear me saying anything about moses? or snakes? no, i said what i said, which is "atheism dictates that life is meaningless, because the end result is absolutely nothing". theism is adopted by default...do not lump other peoples dogmas onto my position. do you have any idea what i am defending?
atheism does not dictate that thought. atheism dictates do not believe in something there is no proof for. what you take from that is your own personal opinion, if YOU think "because there is nothing after life, life is nothing and everything is pointless", that is not neccesarily what others take from atheism. I see it as "there is nothing after life, so live your life to the fullest and enjoy it while you can", but then, THATS MY OPINION and anyone is welcome to agree or disagree with it
actually that's not entirely true. You misunderstand what atheism is. It's not a religion or a phlisophy. It's not a set of beliefs. Atehsim is simply a lack of beliefs in god(s)deitiies. It doesn't mean we think our lives are meaningless if we don't belive in a god. ACTUALLY there are some religions which belive in an afterlife but no God. To amke matters worse it's this life that is meaningless if there is an afterlife. Your modern accomplishments, love and (cont)
everything. Simply because you have eternity to get things right if you fail. We were actaully noting before we came here so why is it so bad to belive that that we will return to where we came from? That is why so many people are confused on what atheism is and what it entails. Knowing that I am going to live this one and only life makes it meaningless because there i sonly one life, one dream, one hope, any religion with any type of after life is a death cult. cuz it's this life that is (cont)
actually keeping you from god...And if god really did love u,s he would understand that we don't wnat to suffer when we commit suicide and we only wnat to be with him because we can't stand teh evil that is here. Thank you eden have a nice day.
i respect your straightforward and logical criticism of what you perceive my position to be. my counters:
1. for the sake of time, my position is only interested in debunking the most scientific-hardcore forms of atheism. my position assumes that these people will reject any other forms of atheism which hold a belief in any afterlife at all
2. you are correct in your assessment that this life is meaningless as it keeps us from "god"...truly holy men distance themselves from physical (cont)
"Knowing that I am going to live this one and only life makes it meaningless because there is only one life, one dream, one hope, any religion with any type of after life is a death cult. cuz it's this life that is (cont) "
srry I meant to say meaningful..having one life makes life meaningful...
You asked him "Do u have any idea what your defending?"...but the real question to him should be "Do u have any idea what those big words you are using mean??"...LMFAO!!! This dude is so full of shit...read my comment to him below...
don't see how the first part is relavent. you use guilt to try and make people believe in your superstitions. just because one choice sounds better than another choice doesn't make it the right choice. Its extremely arrogant to claim that you know that god is real and even more arrogant to claim that you know his feelings towards others. I was impressed with your music, not your philosophy.
Also, i find your video quite humorous, it doesnt take god to make things mean something.
If you are a good person, loving and kind you will leave your fingerprints on earth. Let me tell you, it doesnt take God to make your life mean something. If you do something nice for someone, u have changed there life. Therefore i find it disgusting telling ''5 year olds'' that without God there life is meaningless. That is not true, and being a good person will leave your fingerprints on Earth.
id rather believe in god than nothing, faith in my opinion is better than living everyday with no meaning what so ever. Plus i love your music, 5 STARS!!!!
i am not interested in jumping through hoops with you. once one has established that "god" must certainly exist, one can undertake the process of defining the characteristics of such an entity. do you understand? deciphering faith (the system used to comprehend concepts outside of the realm of "testable" science) is another debate, which we are not having. the debate is the meaning of humanity, which is intimately tied to the debate on the existence of god
EdenTheoryRocks, arguing with you was more frustrating then arguing with 10 creationist at the same time and you are directing this a children. You're twisted and should be stopped.
yes, well, blah blah blah, if my position was so weak you should be able to refute it easily...yet, you cannot...the atheist position (and ultimate the human condition) is ridiculously insane, theism is the only logical conclusion
all things worth knowing a 5 year old can understand, hence my addressing them. i am ensuring that everyone that interprets the english language will comprehend what i am saying. anything creepy you are projecting, dude
no, you didnt project the eyeliner, but the rest of it, yeah, you did. youre the one bringing all that to the table. so, you may as well keep that to yourself
The meaning of life must come from within, you must find it for yourself. If it comes from outside, especially from a book, then your life is meaningless.
not getting a short haircut and wearing eyeliner has nothing at all to do with femininity...it is only traditions of modern society that associate these items with women, and nothing to do with the chemical make-up and brain patterns of women themselves. do you understand? you ought to
I personally believe in life after death, but I definitely don't believe "God" has anything to do with it .. But hey; that's your opinion and I respect that!
That American flag scarf is bitching, but you're off your rocker man, if getting on the twisted abomination that is MTV is a goal, let alone the god business, is sad, also referring to "kids" multiple times, and saying "i love you" can be misleading, if not downright creepy.
i speak to children because i want everybody in the world to understand what i am saying...all things worth knowing, little children can know. i ask my audience to trust that i will not betray them when i get processed through the mainstream music channels (MTV). my take on "god" in this context is entirely based on the simplest principles of universal logic...if you disagree, present your position
the idea of a supreme being and/or beings (gods like in the well known Greek religions of the past) was created to explain things that couldn't be at the time... which is why you have all these stories and tales etc. about elements, the sun (which jesus and or that religions version of jesus is based off of in every religion) the moon, constellations etc. Proof of religions and general not being real can be seen when you realize new religions are based off of old ones Jesus is horace RESEARCH
you are correct, but your offering amounts to a superfluous detail within the scope of the essential question "what is the meaning of life". what is your position on this matter? whatever the origins of the christ story exactly, properly interpreted it is a perfect recipe for the annihilation of the ego and unconditional love. this serves to sever all of the souls ties to the physical world, so at the moment of death one retains their sanity (losing your mind at that point can be seen as hell)
I believe you die like every other living creature, it's human nature to believe there's more afterward, it's quite naive really we should just be happy through cosmic events, extinctions, natural catastrophes, and mistakes we are here lol
so, essentially i interpret your answer to be "there is no actual meaning to life (besides some random chemical processes, which may as well be no meaning whatsoever)"
indeed, because we are going to do what we have been taught, or want to, or follow dreams... but in the end we are going to die. Many years from now MAAAANY years lol there won't be any humans on earth if earth lasts that long, and if we had any meaning... it will be long gone as well. We are taught to survive long enough and do what we have to, to live comfortable some succeed some fail but after that... that's it. There isn't always more lol some people just can't comprehend that.
i comprehend precisely what you are saying, but you have not properly comprehended it, because you have not contemplated the implications of a meaningless existence. some people are born with the innate sense of things, some people understand it only after tragedy...but a meaningless life is insanity, and meaning can only be discerned outside of space and time. you yourself sit there, and post comments as if your life has meaning...which it actually does...even though you "believe" it does not
First off PAL, i sit here post comments and convey my opinion jus like you try to do with your videos. If your going to insult and try to play word games OHHHH you said BELEIVE!!! with anyone that responds more than twice your not going to get very many fans...I know that much. Two, i dont think my life has meaning from youtube comments but you clearly think your life has meaning from making video's.
jj, your position remains that your life, and mine, is meaningless. you appear offended by my direct response, which i did not offer to insult you in any way, but what is more offensive to the human heart than to be disregarded as completely meaningless? this continues to be insanity
lol it is, when we all die the world wont remember us in any way...of course stuff will last that we put here but in the end it'll be like we never existed...so live a happy life and realize that through luck you have a great experience.
what does it matter if i live a "happy life"? what does "luck" even mean? and if everything you just said means absolutely nothing, as you even admit, why should i even listen to anything you say? and why do you even say it? it is illogical to do so. so, you are acting illogically by even talking about this...so how is it that your position is logical at all? it is not. do you understand how absurd your position is? truthfully, with no hate
EdenTheoryRocks, for your own safety, I think you should cut your hair and stop wearing makeup before one of these christians you are defending thinks you are gay and stones you to death. I do not have a problem with the look, myself, but christians have been known to kill people for less. At the bear minimum they will take your human rights away from you. Of course the mooslems will just jail you or shoot you.
we would never kill someone! and if he want long hair he can have it! and where did you hear that christains are known to kill people for less. what is the matter with you. the problum is you dont want beleive no matter what we say. you can never be saved my God if you refuse to beleive.
TheHeyhey321, I didn't say he was gay, I have no problem if he is. I am just concerned that some believer might kill him because he has long hair and makeup. You even admit he looks kinda gay. Around believers this can be dangerous. (bible: Romans 1:24-32)
Oh, don't disobey your parents. The bible says disobedient children must be stoned to death too. (bible: Deuteronomy 21:1821)
oh come on! that was a long time ago that they did that. and please dont think that since im 11 years old that you are always gonna be right no matter what just cause your older.
TheHeyhey321, yes, it was a long time ago but no one is willing to update the bible because they think it is the word of god. Why do you think believers hate gays? Because god hates gays in the bible, that's why. Are you going to pick and choose which parts of the bible you will follow? How are you going to know what not to follow? This is why there are so many christian denominations. Each group of christians follow different parts of the bible. What denomination are you?
i follow each part cause it is Gods word. and God hates no one!!! he is there for evryone. (just something to say real quick you havent ansered half the questions i have asked you)
I actually agree with TheHeyhey321 man, not cool to be bashing gays and you have to remember that the bible was written by man, not God and not everything in the bible should be taken seriously, I mean have you ever read Jesus or God actually saying that homosexuals are evil or whatever, if you find me a verse in the bible with God/Jesus saying that, I won't agree but I won't appose to what you are saying
i have accepted my fate. if i succeed in my endeavor to resurrect pop rock music, through the albums which i have written, i will become one of the most famous people on the planet...and my personality will not change, i will always speak my mind...and i will speak the truth, in a way that everyone can understand me...and someone will probably kill me very quickly. that is fine, it is simply a natural process. my look is inspired from '80s glam rock, and will be effective as a juxtaposition
the atheist position is the default logical position. as such, it must be scrutinized first. using the same scientific process that you clamor the concept of "god" must be applied to, we find that the actual and "testable" meaning of atheist life is nothing whatsoever, which is equal to the end result of an atheist life. *atheist life is meaningless*. this is an unacceptable conclusion, and so atheism is immediately discarded, and theism is adopted by default
EdenTheoryRocks, that's why atheist don't define themselves as atheist. You cannot define someone or something solely based on what it is not. Atheism means anti-theist. I dont believe in theism but that is not how I define myself. I am a secular humanist. I find mean in my fellow human beings and in the universe itself. I find it ridiculous and insulting for you to assume I cannot find meaning in life. I find more meaning then worshiping a god.
i do not mean to insult you as a person, i am simply offering what i believe to be an observation based on simple and irrefutable logic...if the end result is nothing, it is nothing...if you disagree with what i am saying on a semantic level, i request that we cut to the chase...my position directly opposes one that is at a core belief system of a great many atheists, and one that helps define the position...is this fair to say? i mean, you dont believe in "god"
ndyt, that is enough. your statement here is so ludicrous, and lacking in logic, that i have lost the taste to continue this discussion. you have just implied that i support the murder of billions of people. you have no idea what you are talking about. you are like a fish, debating against the existence of water
EdenTheoryRocks, I only have implied you support murder if you support the bible. You have not said you support the bible. You refuse to state what you believe in. Though you feel free to directly say that my life is meaningless.
again, with the bible. bible bible bible bible bible bible bible bible bible. what happens when you die? bible bible bible bible bible bible bible. your consciousness "disappears". bible bible bible bible bible bible bible bible. so, it doesnt matter what you do at all, no matter what you do, the end result is the same, absolutely nothing? bible bible bible bible bible bible wow, what a meaningless existence
EdenTheoryRocks, it is up to you to find meaning in your own existence. No one can find it for you. No book can find it for you. You cant find it for someone else.
another reference to the bible! you havent been talking with me at all this entire time. ive said my piece about the end result being nothing. what you just said is equal to "there is no meaning to life".
EdenTheoryRocks, I went random because you said slavery has nothing to do with the bible when it is a fact that the bible was used to justify slavery for a long time.
If you don't have a religious text to follow then how do you know what your god wants?
once a person has come to the logical conclusion that "god" must certainly exist, finding the proper religious affiliation is a completely different topic. the topic at hand is the existence of "god", and therefore, any issues relating to specific dogma is irrelevant, in terms of this specific debate
keep in mind that this is a different topic, and any response i give cannot be used against my position in the debate of the existence of god
the answer is to take it a step at a time...what clues do we have? there must be an afterlife, such a place would exist outside of time and space, the soul must be real, what are dreams and long past memories? there is a logic, to understanding "faith" (the system used to comprehend concepts that exist outside of time and space)
EdenTheoryRocks, A mind cannot exist outside of time because that would mean the mind cannot change, thought is a process, a process requires change, no change, no function in the mind.
that is an interesting observation, however, you are saying that being firmly rooted in time and space, and having never experienced any alternative reality. in my mind, i can easily conceive of such a reality that would simply make your assertions false...that is to say, there is no time in the first place, time and space are the illusions, and it is thought that is the reality
you choose not to logically analyze the clues which i have presented you objectively, i hope you change your mind
in terms of "fantasy" vs "reality", the truth is that you cannot begin to conceive the most essential elements of this time and space "reality"...in this way is your "reality" just as much a "fantasy" as my own, only you have dressed it up in a dull way (see video)
EdenTheoryRocks, I have read and understood Einstein's book, "the theory of relativity" Thus, I think I have a pretty good grasp of how time and space work, and it is supported by facts and mathematical proofs. Maybe you should read Einstein's works before you dream up your own ideas based on fantasy. What clues have you presented?
dreams. the mind-boggling nature of time and space spreading infinitely in all directions. the main premise of the video, "an existence based solely in time and space is a meaningless existence, and must be discarded to retain ones sanity". science and mathematics cannot explain themselves, ultimately..."the menu is not the meal"...math is a reflection of the human mind, and is not an actual entity...nothing makes sense, the human condition is insane etc
EdenTheoryRocks, no, math was already there, we discovered it. 1 + 1 = 2 with or without humans around. Everything makes sense as long as you remain rational. It is those, like you, that try to move away from rationality and try to live in a fantasy world that are not making any sense and are dangerous to yourself and others.
who is dangerous? i am dangerous? how am i dangerous? in my view people that subscribe to a world view where if one were to live a life filled with rape, pillage, and murder, that
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Lotusflowerism 3 months ago
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Lotusflowerism 3 months ago
What a pretentious twat.
spackhollogay 4 months ago
@tomatowatcher = meaningless existence ultimately. As human sensory reality is insane, the correct premise is "imagination". My position is perfectly suited for this premise, is yours?
EdenTheoryRocks 9 months ago
@tomatowatcher on iPad this is a mess. I do not perceive u "defeating my position" at all. U claim that u "stripped down my position" but my position is stripped by default, by me. I recall u having no retort for my correct assertion that no afterlife = mea
EdenTheoryRocks 9 months ago
@tomatowatcher my laptop broke or I would have responded sooner
EdenTheoryRocks 9 months ago
Disgusting you try to poison the mind's of children.
Why does everything has to have a meaning?
Maybe there is no meaning of life.
You have no prove for your claims.
Teach children reason, instead of using their fear of death
to indoctrinate religious views.
tomatowatcher 10 months ago
@tomatowatcher "maybe there is no meaning of life"
if that were true, then mass murder, anarchy, and "Hell" in general, would be perfectly acceptable acts for humanity to carry out
"no proof for your claims"
you insist on "proof", to be filtered through that human-created system, "science", which is so flawed, that it cannot explain its own existence
im talking about the most basic logical concepts...and i make no reference to any particular religious doctrines at all, except there is a God
EdenTheoryRocks 10 months ago
@EdenTheoryRocks
"without Meaning of Life there would be hell on earth"
Yes i want prove for that too. without prove your claims are worth nothing.
How else am i supposed to distinguish between fact and fantasy. (i guess you don't want me to)
Science : because its works ! (your video is possible because of science you hypocrite).
It can't YET fully explain its existence.
I rephrase my last sentence : You're preparing children's minds for indoctrination. (just as bad).
More ratinoal reasons!
tomatowatcher 10 months ago
@tomatowatcher the truth is, you are outclassed (most likely a kid)
you insist on "proof" - that is to say, you insist on something that can be quantified through the use of the scientific method. and what do we know of this method, ultimately? science cannot explain itself...it provides no answers as to why we are here, where we are going, how anything came to be, what a thought is...yet you have immense FAITH in its absoluteness!
offer up a stronger logical process than i have done, or leave
EdenTheoryRocks 10 months ago
@EdenTheoryRocks
i can't stop you making bogus assumptions about me , so i won't eaven try.
Yes i insist on proof because there is an enormous flood of mostly incorrect claims
Only the correct claims are useful and claims with proof most likely are correct.
Science can't YET explain itself or everything, maybe it never can: so what?
Religion may be wrong: It explains it all but may be all wrong. (without proof i can tell)
Science being self-correcting has a real chance of getting it right.
CTN
tomatowatcher 10 months ago
@EdenTheoryRocks
CTN
Science has the best track record of correctly "explaining stuff"
Why are you so sure that our existence has purpose. (It might not)
Offer a logical and rational reason for that.
While i'm at it: i also demand logical and rational reason the the belief in an afterlife
(“I have a desire” is not rational, "I just know" is illogical).
Its not science that offers absolutes , its religion that does.
tomatowatcher 10 months ago
@tomatowatcher this is simple
if your existence is meaningless, then there is no logical reason not to murder everyone you know, in horrific fashion. there is no reason, ULTIMATELY, not to eat your own feces
if nothing means anything, then you are being a hypocrite by even sitting there, expressing a single thought
your very position contradicts itself logically
come on man, wake up already. its easy, and everybody knows it, underneath their egos
EdenTheoryRocks 10 months ago
@EdenTheoryRocks
Lets assume there is no meaning of life.
If I would do all those terrible things,
I would still be terribly punished by the other people around me.
I want to avoid that so I behave. (since i'm not a criminal mastermind like most people)
I also search for happiness, fun & success because my brain rewards that with endorphins.
There also is the drive to procreate : so i work hard to be appealing to potential mates.
_
Nobody knows the meaning life: why aren't we all on a rampage?
tomatowatcher 10 months ago
@tomatowatcher so, what you are doing is reducing humanity, and the entire spectrum of its experiences, since the dawn of time, to a series of chemical processes
were just a bunch of random molecules, interacting with other molecules, according to you
that, is your truth? that is what you said to the girl that you love, when she asks you if you love her?
thats ludicrous
my criticism stands. you have no logical retort for it. come on, man
EdenTheoryRocks 10 months ago
@EdenTheoryRocks
Not random, but a bunch of molecules forming a sophisticated biological machine depending mostly on chemical and electrical processes. The brain being a computer and the mind a being self enhancing software. There is no reason to think there is anything else. No indication what so ever.
Aw how cute, he thinks I'm a man. My life-partner agrees with me.
Your criticism's stand: you haven't debunked a single argument.
You basically just say how terrible my world view looks to you.
tomatowatcher 10 months ago
@tomatowatcher my position asserts that *logically*, there is no reason to adhere to any form of virtuous or noble action whatsoever, other than a (highly complex) series of chemical reactions. furthermore, there is ultimately no reason, logically, according to your world view, to do *anything*, really. and, that being said, an atheist contradicts himself by doing anything at all, as if it means anything
if there is error in my logic, point it out
EdenTheoryRocks 10 months ago
@EdenTheoryRocks
Hunger gives a good motivation to do something (like making food). If you get hungry enough you won't care about if there is a meaning of life or not. Your hole argument depends on all our motivations coming from spirituality. While in fact our mind is stuck in a body with lots of worldly needs. Those needs govern most of our wishes which gives us motivation. We have build in self-preservation, that overrides every other thought until all our body 's needs are satisfied.
tomatowatcher 10 months ago
@tomatowatcher yes, so you are saying that humanity is no more than a series of chemical reactions. which is obscene. also contradictory, because you 1 dont TRULY believe that at all and 2 you clearly dont live your live in a fashion that is congruent with that belief system. furthermore, your position offers no logical or philosophical rebuttal for people to devour and defecate on each other, if only the chemical processes dictated that it must be so. i mean, its ridiculous, man
EdenTheoryRocks 10 months ago
@EdenTheoryRocks You are attacking a straw-man! (are you that desperate?)
A human mind works like software, its commands are transmitted via chemical reaction and/or electrical signals. The decisions are NOT derived from chemical reactions. They come from parts of the brain similar to programs (acquired via learning or inherited instinct).
We usually don't defecate on each other because: 1) we have empathy (mostly instinct)
and 2) because we want to avoid the revenge(learned) 3)dislike&disgust
tomatowatcher 10 months ago
@tomatowatcher yeah, whatever
you still have no ultimate logical rebuttal for there being any reason why choking everyone you know with their own feces is any different from saving the world, if the end result is the same
you dont
EdenTheoryRocks 10 months ago
@EdenTheoryRocks
logical reason: chocking people ≠ saving the world. those are different things by definition.
To make your statement true you would have to argue that you could save the world by choking people.
Killing a few people does not save the world. (you would have to be insane to think that)
You assert the claim that there is an end result: time might be a loop with no end or beginning
If there is an end result its unknown you can't know the causality chain leading to its outcome
tomatowatcher 10 months ago
@tomatowatcher as choking people and saving the world would end in the same result, if can be argued (correctly) that a logical extremist has every right to quantify them equally
certainly the popular perception of a "scientific-method-worshiping atheist"'s belief system will dictate that there is no afterlife, if there is no afterlife, the end result is nothing (science also dictates humanity will certainly become extinct)
time loop cannot be quantified so the debate is "God" vs "time loop"
EdenTheoryRocks 10 months ago
@EdenTheoryRocks
the "time loop" was meant to exemplify that reality might not end.
But you were talking about personal death, next time specify "end" (of what).
One can't be a "logical extremist"
and have a body at the same time. (its needs have to much influence on decision-making)
You're talking of an hypothetical entity, not human beings.
Your argument: meaning of Life is the only thing preventing humans from rampaging.
cannot be backed up with the behavior of an imaginary body-less entity.
tomatowatcher 10 months ago
@tomatowatcher clearly, a "time-loop" would fall at least into vastly similar intellectual territory as "an entity which exists outside of time and space / "God'". the debate would be which is a more logical system
what is wrong with the term "logical extremist"? carry out a line of reasoning to its extreme
if you assert that my position cannot be backed up by the existence of an "imaginary bodiless entity", then simply propose a more logical alternative
make your play
EdenTheoryRocks 10 months ago
@EdenTheoryRocks
Time-loop was an example of A possible reality without beginning, to show that a beginning cannot be assumed by default.
Nothing wrong with your term. (its elegant)
However your original claim was about real humans not imaginary beings.
Your logical extremist needs a logical motivation to live on.
Humans don't (I explained why in my previous comments)
therefor "meaning of life" is not necessary to explain the real world.
My play: reality can't be explained with the imaginairy
tomatowatcher 10 months ago
@tomatowatcher my retort: what you consider reality, i consider entirely "imaginary"
i assert that our situation is actually so ridiculous, to the point where NOTHING makes ANY SENSE AT ALL IF YOU REALLY THINK ABOUT IT. the truth must resemble a game, or test, or ruse. we cant determine origin, or destination, or meaning. this is not the real world
this debate is about logical extremes. how can you acknowledge my point, yet contradict it by saying "most people dont understand it, so its moot"?
EdenTheoryRocks 10 months ago
@EdenTheoryRocks
NO this dabte is whether all people on earth would go crazy without a meaning of life.
I stripped all your arguments away until there was only a imaginary logical extremist entity
left.
Imaginary beings don't prove squat in reality.
You are just trying to change the subject because all your arguments evaporated.
People can understand logic but they don't make purely logical decisions. (remember instinct, empathy, learned behavior, procreation drive, self-preservation etc.)
tomatowatcher 10 months ago
@tomatowatcher reality doesnt prove squat in reality. dont you see?
EdenTheoryRocks 10 months ago
Reality doesn't prove reality ?
Let me guess you're a Solipsist now ?
Since the only thing you can prove is your mind, and everything else could be figment of your imagination.
Is it that bad?
You lost a debate and now you have to tell yourself that i am a figment of your imagination.
tomatowatcher 10 months ago
I can't really comprehend why you would only assume there is two opinions of an afterlife. Many people take many positions on what happens after death, it's believed that there's a heaven, there's re-birth, reincarnation, agnosticism in which the person makes no assertion, and my personal view that you become what you were before you were born... nothing.
Just because I don't believe I'll be able to cherish those memories I made in life when I die doesn't mean that I find my life dismissive.
DontDrinkTH3KoolAid 1 year ago
@DontDrinkTH3KoolAid rebirth, reincarnation, etc, can be lumped into the category of "returning to the source", which is, belief in "One God", which is my position (though i do not endorse "rebirth" etc). agnosticism can be more correctly interpreted as "atheism lite", and is dismissed as a position. if you believe that ultimately your works amount to "nothing", then it is contradictory for you to even put forth any statement at all, as it ultimately means "absolutely nothing", and is worthless
EdenTheoryRocks 1 year ago
@EdenTheoryRocks The belief in a life or rebirth after death doesn't necessarily mean that a belief in god is required; take Buddhist for example, Taoism, and so on, all of which believes in an afterlife theory but no god.
Agnosticism could be considered lite atheism, but it can also be considered lite theism, it all depends on what the agnostic is leaning further towards.
And I never said my works amount to nothing after death, they just no longer serve me a purpose; (continue.)
DontDrinkTH3KoolAid 1 year ago
@EdenTheoryRocks But just because they no longer serve me a purpose doesn't mean I shouldn't try and better this world for all who live after me. Doing good will give me reassurance when I'm taking my last breaths so I can say to myself "I didn't waste my life, I made someone's better.
Even if the work you do doesn't do any good for you it may do good for someone else. Such as if I were to create a cure for cancer but never became diagnosed with it, someone else still benefits from it.
DontDrinkTH3KoolAid 1 year ago
@DontDrinkTH3KoolAid in regards to buddhism, taoism etc, it is fair to view any belief in the afterlife as roughly being equivalent in the belief of "God", for the purposes of a debate on atheism. yes, agnosticism is not really a position, depending on either way the person actually leans. your view on "helping people" sounds nice, but as ultimately humanity will become extinct, so too will all of their works ultimately amount to nothing, no matter how far down the line
EdenTheoryRocks 1 year ago
@EdenTheoryRocks Afterlife is no way equivalent to a god besides the facts that gods and afterlives have been tossed into the same stories, that's like saying the store I intend on going to later is equivalent to friend because he's been there.
What's your point about us eventually being extinct? Life has been progressing its self for over 500 million years, nothing has stopped it before. Life is enjoyable, and that's the only reason I need to enjoy it. If you need a god, that's your problem.
DontDrinkTH3KoolAid 1 year ago
@DontDrinkTH3KoolAid "God" may be most properly defined as being "an entity which exists outside of time and space". therefore, it is most properly logically comprehended as being *one* entity, and so any form of pantheism may be discarded. an "afterlife", if existing outside of time and space, must logically be considered to fall under the same basic principles. therefore, proper belief in "afterlife" = monotheism
EdenTheoryRocks 1 year ago
@DontDrinkTH3KoolAid as per your second point, if you cannot comprehend the equation: all things humanity-related within time and space inevitably amount to nothing, therefore all acts are of equal meaning (nothing), therefore making love = taking a crap on a pile of puke = world peace = genocide = PURE INSANITY, then you have no right to participate in this conversation. furthermore, if all acts are ultimately meaningless by your doctrines, you contradict yourself by expressing anything at all
EdenTheoryRocks 1 year ago
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAhAHAHA OMFG you suck
mmmmmarcus 1 year ago
Whether or not you believe in an afterlife doesn't change the fact that there either is or is not one. Another thing it does not change is that simply saying "I believe in an afterlife" doesn't suddenly give meaning to life. If you believe in a god, and believe that that god created life and an afterlife, what was the point or purpose of the life to begin with? What is the purpose in creating a world of people whose only guarantee in their lives are that they will die anyway?
KOICrowz 1 year ago
@KOICrowz that is a difficult philosophical question, and i will do my best to answer it plainly. What do we know as fact? We know the brain is programmed to "flash-forward" through a person's entire memory bank at the moment of death. We know all things physical are reduced to nothing. We know there must be an afterlife, or this life is utterly meaningless. What rough conclusion can we make from these observations? Your mind reflects on the actions you have taken in your life, at death.
EdenTheoryRocks 1 year ago
@EdenTheoryRocks You didn't address my question as to why an afterlife gives purpose to life. If there is an afterlife, then that would truly make this life pointless, seeing as you live on anyway. No belief offers any actual ultimate purpose, no matter how you spin it. Afterlife or not, we have no reason to exist, but since we do, we might as well enjoy it.
KOICrowz 1 year ago
@KOICrowz you are operating under the assumption that this life has no influence on the afterlife, which is logically incorrect, as that would dictate that this life is just as meaningless as it would be according to atheist dogma. Therefore, it is logical to interpret that the actions one takes in this life have ultra-important consequences in regards to the afterlife, which is precisely what Orthodox Christian dogma has dictated for thousands of years.
EdenTheoryRocks 1 year ago
@EdenTheoryRocks Actually I was under the assumption that you believed this life's choices to influence the next. The choices made in this life having some sort of effect on the afterlife still does not give this one purpose though. The question then becomes, why not just be born into that eternal life, whatever you may believe it to be, and have to suffer the consequences of your actions? If you believe in an afterlife with those consequences, then life is just a meaningless roadblock.
KOICrowz 1 year ago
@KOICrowz you are perceiving "the afterlife" through the context of a modern realist human perspective, as opposed to the perspective of an eternal soul. That is illogical. The question needs to be: "What is the belief system which endows this life with the most possible meaning?"
EdenTheoryRocks 1 year ago
@EdenTheoryRocks I'm coming at this from the only logical perspective: "If there is an afterlife, what point is there to this one?" The fact remains that there is no ultimate purpose, no matter what you choose to believe. Also, that question is simply horrible. If I created the most elaborate and wonderful belief system in the world tomorrow, that wouldn't suddenly make it right to believe in or somehow better, because it is still a lie that devalues the real world and our real, finite lives.
KOICrowz 1 year ago
@KOICrowz the only thing that devalues your life is hardcore scientific atheist dogma, as it dictates that the end result of your entire life, and of all peoples' lives, is absolutely nothing. Following this logic leads one to the perfectly reasonable conclusion that anything you, as an atheist, says or does, is actually equal in meaning to the most deplorable and ridiculous acts you can imagine, such as mass murder, or public defecation etc
EdenTheoryRocks 1 year ago
@EdenTheoryRocks Your logic is so flawed that it's honestly sort of ridiculous. Humans value the finite more than the infinite, it's just how we are. For example, who do you think actually values water more, the rich child who will never have to work a day in their life and has ready access to it, or the poor child that has to walk a mile for dirty river water every day? Something being finite, such as life, doesn't devalue it, it does the exact opposite.
KOICrowz 1 year ago
@KOICrowz that is how the unenlightened human perceives what they experience through their physical senses. However, upon hardcore introspective contemplation, the wise man will come to the conclusion that all things material are ultimately meaningless, and therefore uses his highest, and most simple, logical and philosophical resources to discern the "hidden" meaning to such an existence, which is *beyond time and space*.
EdenTheoryRocks 1 year ago
@EdenTheoryRocks All things material ARE ultimately meaningless, I've said that. That realization though doesn't somehow give weight to your argument that there is an afterlife. Your idea that there MUST be an afterlife is ridiculous and close-minded.
KOICrowz 1 year ago
@KOICrowz that is absurd, as I have clearly demonstrated, logically, that if "this is all there is", then anything you say and do will ultimately lead to nothing at all, and furthermore, is equal in value to any ridiculous or cruel act I can imagine, such as pushing an old lady off of a cliff, or eating a baby etc. At this time, it is necessary for me to request that you "check yourself".
EdenTheoryRocks 1 year ago
@EdenTheoryRocks If by "ultimately lead to nothing", you mean that once everything I effect or influence, including future generations possibly leading to extinction, are no longer living or experience that effect, then you are right. I don't think THAT far into the future though, as nobody can possibly comprehend thousands, millions, billions, etc. of years, and I try to focus more on my lifetime and a few future generations, and I form my actions and decisions around that focus.
KOICrowz 1 year ago
I'm assuming your video is pretty good because it won't come up on my screen. I scrolled down to see the remarks you generated and it looks like you struck a nerve. Good job. Time for folks to wake up and have some meaningful discussion on the topic. Love and Light.
futbolangel02 1 year ago
Yeah, because atheist believe in nothing right? If you don't believe in god you don't believe in a single thing, right?
I don't think you know what an atheist is Eden...
bbowiee 1 year ago
Man, you are sleazy.
laserxfx 1 year ago
Insecurity
lukerchaffey 2 years ago
you need to clean up ETR..
I understand they have treatment centers where you can get clean in a short time.
blackarrow125 2 years ago
One rung down the ignorance ladder, we fall from Christianty to Scientology. Two rungs, and atheism.
martythamoose 2 years ago
eden sucks! LOL!
bettyloutumor 2 years ago
To put it simply atheism means does not believe in any type of deity or the supernatural. So do not generalize all atheists.
mit871chell 2 years ago
Our lives are the accumulation of what we have done. No more no less. To try and argue that without an afterlife our lives are meaningless is really dumb. Not all religions have an afterlife. there are far more than 2 choices. There is actually a simple answer here: say we have atheism on one hand and choosing 'a religion' on the other. There are infinite gods to worship.. Therefor your probability of being correct is very small if you choose between gods.
moutonnoir13 2 years ago
@moutonnoir13
"There are infinite gods to worship"
Im guessing that you're implying that there are a lot of gods. There is only one uncaused cause. Dont let dawkins rearrange common sense. There can only be one original. What you have are different names, from dif cultures Furthermore there are what were called gods. Not the god, but higher beings. You have to love the way the atheists believe theyve solved the riddle of life and meaning of ancient text with a single swing of ignorance
thehalfvolley 2 years ago
notice that youre replying to yet another comment with no reference to dawkins. i think dawkins ass rapes you in your mind or something. i say dog, you say dawkins. i say orange you say dawkins. i say ellie may, you say dawkins. after witnessing you do this over and over, i have to conclude that youre obsessed with richard dawkins. no one knows why & youre the only one who cares. next time you reply to a comment of mine. i will reply to yours with "dawkins!" whatever the hell that means.
executionerofgod 2 years ago
This dude is a joke you guys!...he TYPES like he's intelligent and shit, but yet he TALKS like a fucktard....My guess is he has a friggin dictionary in front of him everytime he tries to answer to a comment on here. Trying his hardest to use the biggest words and to sound the smartest possible. Listen to him speak though, and it tells a whole other story...LMAO...He should speak the way he types and vice versa....
chuchara02 2 years ago
please don't put stuff like this into kids' head.
a. you will take away their childhood
b. you are targeting children because children are easy to influence and convince, and teaching them your opinions as facts
flabwaan 2 years ago
People can believe whatever they wish, which is exactly what he said. We have a choice, and he made his and I made mine too. No need to be all whiney about it, he was just being honest.
flowerchildx09 2 years ago
....how very condescending....
Whisp811 2 years ago
I like your music Eden but saying god exists is absurred. You don't know that god exists, and your constantly trying to make yourself sound more intelligent with big words. Do u have any idea what your defending? lol your telling me that an old man named moses was able to capture two of every animal and bring them onto a ship that he built with his own two hands? your telling me that you believe in a talking snake? thats stupid why do people believe that crap it makes no more sense than santa
TeeCoan 2 years ago
thanks for listening to my songs. do you hear me saying anything about moses? or snakes? no, i said what i said, which is "atheism dictates that life is meaningless, because the end result is absolutely nothing". theism is adopted by default...do not lump other peoples dogmas onto my position. do you have any idea what i am defending?
EdenTheoryRocks 2 years ago
atheism does not dictate that thought. atheism dictates do not believe in something there is no proof for. what you take from that is your own personal opinion, if YOU think "because there is nothing after life, life is nothing and everything is pointless", that is not neccesarily what others take from atheism. I see it as "there is nothing after life, so live your life to the fullest and enjoy it while you can", but then, THATS MY OPINION and anyone is welcome to agree or disagree with it
flabwaan 2 years ago
actually that's not entirely true. You misunderstand what atheism is. It's not a religion or a phlisophy. It's not a set of beliefs. Atehsim is simply a lack of beliefs in god(s)deitiies. It doesn't mean we think our lives are meaningless if we don't belive in a god. ACTUALLY there are some religions which belive in an afterlife but no God. To amke matters worse it's this life that is meaningless if there is an afterlife. Your modern accomplishments, love and (cont)
blizzard7006 2 years ago
everything. Simply because you have eternity to get things right if you fail. We were actaully noting before we came here so why is it so bad to belive that that we will return to where we came from? That is why so many people are confused on what atheism is and what it entails. Knowing that I am going to live this one and only life makes it meaningless because there i sonly one life, one dream, one hope, any religion with any type of after life is a death cult. cuz it's this life that is (cont)
blizzard7006 2 years ago
actually keeping you from god...And if god really did love u,s he would understand that we don't wnat to suffer when we commit suicide and we only wnat to be with him because we can't stand teh evil that is here. Thank you eden have a nice day.
blizzard7006 2 years ago
i respect your straightforward and logical criticism of what you perceive my position to be. my counters:
1. for the sake of time, my position is only interested in debunking the most scientific-hardcore forms of atheism. my position assumes that these people will reject any other forms of atheism which hold a belief in any afterlife at all
2. you are correct in your assessment that this life is meaningless as it keeps us from "god"...truly holy men distance themselves from physical (cont)
EdenTheoryRocks 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"Knowing that I am going to live this one and only life makes it meaningless because there is only one life, one dream, one hope, any religion with any type of after life is a death cult. cuz it's this life that is (cont) "
srry I meant to say meaningful..having one life makes life meaningful...
blizzard7006 2 years ago
You asked him "Do u have any idea what your defending?"...but the real question to him should be "Do u have any idea what those big words you are using mean??"...LMFAO!!! This dude is so full of shit...read my comment to him below...
chuchara02 2 years ago
don't see how the first part is relavent. you use guilt to try and make people believe in your superstitions. just because one choice sounds better than another choice doesn't make it the right choice. Its extremely arrogant to claim that you know that god is real and even more arrogant to claim that you know his feelings towards others. I was impressed with your music, not your philosophy.
Camus286 2 years ago
MTV....bahahahahaha
jmaddox28 2 years ago
terrible.
NachoSmith15 2 years ago
Also, i find your video quite humorous, it doesnt take god to make things mean something.
If you are a good person, loving and kind you will leave your fingerprints on earth. Let me tell you, it doesnt take God to make your life mean something. If you do something nice for someone, u have changed there life. Therefore i find it disgusting telling ''5 year olds'' that without God there life is meaningless. That is not true, and being a good person will leave your fingerprints on Earth.
debatti 2 years ago
id rather believe in god than nothing, faith in my opinion is better than living everyday with no meaning what so ever. Plus i love your music, 5 STARS!!!!
TheDJRythmic 2 years ago
1 star
ndyt 2 years ago
come on man, i want my pages to get views, but you should move along already, especially since you have no retort
EdenTheoryRocks 2 years ago
EdenTheoryRocks, retort? You wont even say what god you think exists! How can you know what your god wants if you don't even know who it is?
1 star
ndyt 2 years ago
ndyt, respond to my comment below, where i already address your point, or i will block you. this is not a page for hatemongering
EdenTheoryRocks 2 years ago
EdenTheoryRocks, respond to what comment of yours? That god exists? I already responded with: WHICH GOD?!?! 1 star
ndyt 2 years ago
1 star
ndyt 2 years ago
i am not interested in jumping through hoops with you. once one has established that "god" must certainly exist, one can undertake the process of defining the characteristics of such an entity. do you understand? deciphering faith (the system used to comprehend concepts outside of the realm of "testable" science) is another debate, which we are not having. the debate is the meaning of humanity, which is intimately tied to the debate on the existence of god
now stop stalling
EdenTheoryRocks 2 years ago
I rate this video 1 star every day. You should too.
Conversation with Yahweh
watch?v=QecUUnLNSiY
ndyt 2 years ago
you rate my video 1 star every day? you dont even have any kind of retort at all to my position, what do you think you are doing?
EdenTheoryRocks 2 years ago
EdenTheoryRocks, arguing with you was more frustrating then arguing with 10 creationist at the same time and you are directing this a children. You're twisted and should be stopped.
ndyt 2 years ago
yes, well, blah blah blah, if my position was so weak you should be able to refute it easily...yet, you cannot...the atheist position (and ultimate the human condition) is ridiculously insane, theism is the only logical conclusion
EdenTheoryRocks 2 years ago
EdenTheoryRocks, i cannot refute your position because you refuse to admit what your position is! 1 star! Again!
ndyt 2 years ago
what the hell are you talking about? my position is that logically, "god" must certainly exist
EdenTheoryRocks 2 years ago
EdenTheoryRocks, which god?
ndyt 2 years ago
Addressing a video like this to 5 year olds is kinda inherently creepy.
RobotBacon 2 years ago
all things worth knowing a 5 year old can understand, hence my addressing them. i am ensuring that everyone that interprets the english language will comprehend what i am saying. anything creepy you are projecting, dude
EdenTheoryRocks 2 years ago
I didn't project eyeliner and the 'I'm gonna touch you in your pants' vibe onto you, cap'n. Seems pretty organic.
RobotBacon 2 years ago
no, you didnt project the eyeliner, but the rest of it, yeah, you did. youre the one bringing all that to the table. so, you may as well keep that to yourself
EdenTheoryRocks 2 years ago
RobotBacon, totally agree that this is creepy. I rate it 1 star every day.
ndyt 2 years ago
The meaning of life must come from within, you must find it for yourself. If it comes from outside, especially from a book, then your life is meaningless.
ndyt 2 years ago
is this guy gay? he has long hair and is clearly wearing eyeliner...lmao in my opinion, men should NEVER imitate women.
chuchara02 2 years ago
not getting a short haircut and wearing eyeliner has nothing at all to do with femininity...it is only traditions of modern society that associate these items with women, and nothing to do with the chemical make-up and brain patterns of women themselves. do you understand? you ought to
EdenTheoryRocks 2 years ago
What you said? You are just trying to confuse people. Look a Job or something!!
JoshuatheKing7 2 years ago
O___O WHAT THE FUCK??im confused now welll im stickin to God!!:D
ToadlyAToad 2 years ago
Strange fellow...
ajayaruna 2 years ago 2
I personally believe in life after death, but I definitely don't believe "God" has anything to do with it .. But hey; that's your opinion and I respect that!
TheFakeBurger 2 years ago
your a fag get a life
devomax22 2 years ago
That American flag scarf is bitching, but you're off your rocker man, if getting on the twisted abomination that is MTV is a goal, let alone the god business, is sad, also referring to "kids" multiple times, and saying "i love you" can be misleading, if not downright creepy.
XxXxXHarukoXxXxX 2 years ago
i speak to children because i want everybody in the world to understand what i am saying...all things worth knowing, little children can know. i ask my audience to trust that i will not betray them when i get processed through the mainstream music channels (MTV). my take on "god" in this context is entirely based on the simplest principles of universal logic...if you disagree, present your position
EdenTheoryRocks 2 years ago
the idea of a supreme being and/or beings (gods like in the well known Greek religions of the past) was created to explain things that couldn't be at the time... which is why you have all these stories and tales etc. about elements, the sun (which jesus and or that religions version of jesus is based off of in every religion) the moon, constellations etc. Proof of religions and general not being real can be seen when you realize new religions are based off of old ones Jesus is horace RESEARCH
jj237 2 years ago
you are correct, but your offering amounts to a superfluous detail within the scope of the essential question "what is the meaning of life". what is your position on this matter? whatever the origins of the christ story exactly, properly interpreted it is a perfect recipe for the annihilation of the ego and unconditional love. this serves to sever all of the souls ties to the physical world, so at the moment of death one retains their sanity (losing your mind at that point can be seen as hell)
EdenTheoryRocks 2 years ago
I believe you die like every other living creature, it's human nature to believe there's more afterward, it's quite naive really we should just be happy through cosmic events, extinctions, natural catastrophes, and mistakes we are here lol
jj237 2 years ago
so, essentially i interpret your answer to be "there is no actual meaning to life (besides some random chemical processes, which may as well be no meaning whatsoever)"
EdenTheoryRocks 2 years ago
indeed, because we are going to do what we have been taught, or want to, or follow dreams... but in the end we are going to die. Many years from now MAAAANY years lol there won't be any humans on earth if earth lasts that long, and if we had any meaning... it will be long gone as well. We are taught to survive long enough and do what we have to, to live comfortable some succeed some fail but after that... that's it. There isn't always more lol some people just can't comprehend that.
jj237 2 years ago
i comprehend precisely what you are saying, but you have not properly comprehended it, because you have not contemplated the implications of a meaningless existence. some people are born with the innate sense of things, some people understand it only after tragedy...but a meaningless life is insanity, and meaning can only be discerned outside of space and time. you yourself sit there, and post comments as if your life has meaning...which it actually does...even though you "believe" it does not
EdenTheoryRocks 2 years ago
First off PAL, i sit here post comments and convey my opinion jus like you try to do with your videos. If your going to insult and try to play word games OHHHH you said BELEIVE!!! with anyone that responds more than twice your not going to get very many fans...I know that much. Two, i dont think my life has meaning from youtube comments but you clearly think your life has meaning from making video's.
jj237 2 years ago
jj, your position remains that your life, and mine, is meaningless. you appear offended by my direct response, which i did not offer to insult you in any way, but what is more offensive to the human heart than to be disregarded as completely meaningless? this continues to be insanity
EdenTheoryRocks 2 years ago
lol it is, when we all die the world wont remember us in any way...of course stuff will last that we put here but in the end it'll be like we never existed...so live a happy life and realize that through luck you have a great experience.
jj237 2 years ago
what does it matter if i live a "happy life"? what does "luck" even mean? and if everything you just said means absolutely nothing, as you even admit, why should i even listen to anything you say? and why do you even say it? it is illogical to do so. so, you are acting illogically by even talking about this...so how is it that your position is logical at all? it is not. do you understand how absurd your position is? truthfully, with no hate
EdenTheoryRocks 2 years ago
thats the point it doesnt matter, it doesnt have to how hard is that to understand lol its absurd only if you believe theres a meaning.
jj237 2 years ago
no offense dude but that's shit!!!
Avian98X 2 years ago
EdenTheoryRocks, for your own safety, I think you should cut your hair and stop wearing makeup before one of these christians you are defending thinks you are gay and stones you to death. I do not have a problem with the look, myself, but christians have been known to kill people for less. At the bear minimum they will take your human rights away from you. Of course the mooslems will just jail you or shoot you.
ndyt 2 years ago
we would never kill someone! and if he want long hair he can have it! and where did you hear that christains are known to kill people for less. what is the matter with you. the problum is you dont want beleive no matter what we say. you can never be saved my God if you refuse to beleive.
TheHeyhey321 2 years ago
TheHeyhey321, maybe you haven't read your own bible, it says that gays have to be stoned to death over and over.
ndyt 2 years ago
i have read most of it. im 11 years old so i have not got through 1465 pages yet. and he is not gay. he just kida looks like it (no offense eden)
TheHeyhey321 2 years ago
TheHeyhey321, I didn't say he was gay, I have no problem if he is. I am just concerned that some believer might kill him because he has long hair and makeup. You even admit he looks kinda gay. Around believers this can be dangerous. (bible: Romans 1:24-32)
Oh, don't disobey your parents. The bible says disobedient children must be stoned to death too. (bible: Deuteronomy 21:1821)
ndyt 2 years ago
oh come on! that was a long time ago that they did that. and please dont think that since im 11 years old that you are always gonna be right no matter what just cause your older.
TheHeyhey321 2 years ago
TheHeyhey321, yes, it was a long time ago but no one is willing to update the bible because they think it is the word of god. Why do you think believers hate gays? Because god hates gays in the bible, that's why. Are you going to pick and choose which parts of the bible you will follow? How are you going to know what not to follow? This is why there are so many christian denominations. Each group of christians follow different parts of the bible. What denomination are you?
ndyt 2 years ago
i follow each part cause it is Gods word. and God hates no one!!! he is there for evryone. (just something to say real quick you havent ansered half the questions i have asked you)
TheHeyhey321 2 years ago
TheHeyhey321, if god doesn't hate gays he has a funny way of showing it. You don't stone someone you hate.
What question have you asked me besides "how did you get here?" Which I said evolution.
ndyt 2 years ago
hold on just leave that aside for a minute. where is it in the bible where it sais you must be stoned to death if your gay?
TheHeyhey321 2 years ago
TheHeyhey321, I already posted that, here it is again:
Romans 1:24-32
Also:
Leviticus 20:13
Corinthians 6:9-10
1 Timothy 1:10
There are more but I think that is enough.
ndyt 2 years ago
no i would like to know all of them please.
TheHeyhey321 2 years ago
TheHeyhey321, I am not your google. I leave it to you. But here are some videos:
watch?v=aTACNNs3b5U
watch?v=HUj8hg5CoSw
watch?v=uxmy7cUMGE4
watch?v=VWAUhadJzTk
ndyt 2 years ago
uhhhhhhhh. just tell me. if you are willing to show me some videos then your willing to tell me bible verses.
TheHeyhey321 2 years ago
I actually agree with TheHeyhey321 man, not cool to be bashing gays and you have to remember that the bible was written by man, not God and not everything in the bible should be taken seriously, I mean have you ever read Jesus or God actually saying that homosexuals are evil or whatever, if you find me a verse in the bible with God/Jesus saying that, I won't agree but I won't appose to what you are saying
abcsinging123 2 years ago
i have accepted my fate. if i succeed in my endeavor to resurrect pop rock music, through the albums which i have written, i will become one of the most famous people on the planet...and my personality will not change, i will always speak my mind...and i will speak the truth, in a way that everyone can understand me...and someone will probably kill me very quickly. that is fine, it is simply a natural process. my look is inspired from '80s glam rock, and will be effective as a juxtaposition
EdenTheoryRocks 2 years ago
the atheist position is the default logical position. as such, it must be scrutinized first. using the same scientific process that you clamor the concept of "god" must be applied to, we find that the actual and "testable" meaning of atheist life is nothing whatsoever, which is equal to the end result of an atheist life. *atheist life is meaningless*. this is an unacceptable conclusion, and so atheism is immediately discarded, and theism is adopted by default
EdenTheoryRocks 2 years ago
EdenTheoryRocks, that's why atheist don't define themselves as atheist. You cannot define someone or something solely based on what it is not. Atheism means anti-theist. I dont believe in theism but that is not how I define myself. I am a secular humanist. I find mean in my fellow human beings and in the universe itself. I find it ridiculous and insulting for you to assume I cannot find meaning in life. I find more meaning then worshiping a god.
ndyt 2 years ago
i do not mean to insult you as a person, i am simply offering what i believe to be an observation based on simple and irrefutable logic...if the end result is nothing, it is nothing...if you disagree with what i am saying on a semantic level, i request that we cut to the chase...my position directly opposes one that is at a core belief system of a great many atheists, and one that helps define the position...is this fair to say? i mean, you dont believe in "god"
EdenTheoryRocks 2 years ago
EdenTheoryRocks, how is the end result nothing?
I could say that the end result of religion is genocide since the first commandment is not to have any god but god and the penalty is death.
ndyt 2 years ago
ndyt, that is enough. your statement here is so ludicrous, and lacking in logic, that i have lost the taste to continue this discussion. you have just implied that i support the murder of billions of people. you have no idea what you are talking about. you are like a fish, debating against the existence of water
EdenTheoryRocks 2 years ago
EdenTheoryRocks, I only have implied you support murder if you support the bible. You have not said you support the bible. You refuse to state what you believe in. Though you feel free to directly say that my life is meaningless.
ndyt 2 years ago
again, with the bible. bible bible bible bible bible bible bible bible bible. what happens when you die? bible bible bible bible bible bible bible. your consciousness "disappears". bible bible bible bible bible bible bible bible. so, it doesnt matter what you do at all, no matter what you do, the end result is the same, absolutely nothing? bible bible bible bible bible bible wow, what a meaningless existence
EdenTheoryRocks 2 years ago
EdenTheoryRocks, it is up to you to find meaning in your own existence. No one can find it for you. No book can find it for you. You cant find it for someone else.
ndyt 2 years ago
another reference to the bible! you havent been talking with me at all this entire time. ive said my piece about the end result being nothing. what you just said is equal to "there is no meaning to life".
EdenTheoryRocks 2 years ago
enden is right since ur a atheist u can't say what God want from me if u dont even know him
bunny153649 2 years ago
Christ is equal with God John 10:30/ Phil 2:5
Christ is not equal with God John 14:28/ Matt 24:36
Jesus was all-powerful Matt 28:18/ John 3:35
Jesus was not all-powerful Mark 6:5
The law was superseded by the Christian dispensation
Luke 16:16/ Eph 2:15/ Rom 7:6
The law was not superseded by the Christian dispensation Matt 5:17-19
ndyt 2 years ago
who are you talking to? the bible has no bearing on my position. you are quoting the bible worse than a theist does
EdenTheoryRocks 2 years ago
EdenTheoryRocks, I went random because you said slavery has nothing to do with the bible when it is a fact that the bible was used to justify slavery for a long time.
If you don't have a religious text to follow then how do you know what your god wants?
ndyt 2 years ago
once a person has come to the logical conclusion that "god" must certainly exist, finding the proper religious affiliation is a completely different topic. the topic at hand is the existence of "god", and therefore, any issues relating to specific dogma is irrelevant, in terms of this specific debate
EdenTheoryRocks 2 years ago
EdenTheoryRocks, the existence of god is irrelevant if you don't know what he wants from you.
ndyt 2 years ago
no, first a person needs to decide that "god" exists, before he proceeds to understand "god". this is the simplest, most basic logic
EdenTheoryRocks 2 years ago
EdenTheoryRocks, ok, lets say a god exists, now how are you going to communicate with it to find out what it wants?
ndyt 2 years ago
keep in mind that this is a different topic, and any response i give cannot be used against my position in the debate of the existence of god
the answer is to take it a step at a time...what clues do we have? there must be an afterlife, such a place would exist outside of time and space, the soul must be real, what are dreams and long past memories? there is a logic, to understanding "faith" (the system used to comprehend concepts that exist outside of time and space)
EdenTheoryRocks 2 years ago
EdenTheoryRocks, A mind cannot exist outside of time because that would mean the mind cannot change, thought is a process, a process requires change, no change, no function in the mind.
ndyt 2 years ago
that is an interesting observation, however, you are saying that being firmly rooted in time and space, and having never experienced any alternative reality. in my mind, i can easily conceive of such a reality that would simply make your assertions false...that is to say, there is no time in the first place, time and space are the illusions, and it is thought that is the reality
EdenTheoryRocks 2 years ago
EdenTheoryRocks, your speculations are pure fantasy, thus your god and afterlife are pure fantasy.
ndyt 2 years ago
you choose not to logically analyze the clues which i have presented you objectively, i hope you change your mind
in terms of "fantasy" vs "reality", the truth is that you cannot begin to conceive the most essential elements of this time and space "reality"...in this way is your "reality" just as much a "fantasy" as my own, only you have dressed it up in a dull way (see video)
EdenTheoryRocks 2 years ago
EdenTheoryRocks, I have read and understood Einstein's book, "the theory of relativity" Thus, I think I have a pretty good grasp of how time and space work, and it is supported by facts and mathematical proofs. Maybe you should read Einstein's works before you dream up your own ideas based on fantasy. What clues have you presented?
ndyt 2 years ago
dreams. the mind-boggling nature of time and space spreading infinitely in all directions. the main premise of the video, "an existence based solely in time and space is a meaningless existence, and must be discarded to retain ones sanity". science and mathematics cannot explain themselves, ultimately..."the menu is not the meal"...math is a reflection of the human mind, and is not an actual entity...nothing makes sense, the human condition is insane etc
EdenTheoryRocks 2 years ago
EdenTheoryRocks, no, math was already there, we discovered it. 1 + 1 = 2 with or without humans around. Everything makes sense as long as you remain rational. It is those, like you, that try to move away from rationality and try to live in a fantasy world that are not making any sense and are dangerous to yourself and others.
ndyt 2 years ago
who is dangerous? i am dangerous? how am i dangerous? in my view people that subscribe to a world view where if one were to live a life filled with rape, pillage, and murder, that