XNA Game Studio Express Speedcoding By Charles Cox

[TheMeanEYE]

And my dear friends this is why you have to keep buying faster computers: Lazy developers. I wish old days came back. When a programmer actually had to optimize code. Games had better quality and uglier graphics, but they were insanely more entertaining. And before people start commenting, yes I am a programmer. I also believe that any good programmer would never use stuff like this.

Oh, and please don't try to compare ID and Source engines to something like this. It's just sad.

[alexgrinkov]

xna just makes it more difficult to port it to other platforms other than PC/Xbox360, that's the whole point.

[alexgrinkov]

for amateur gamedevs, it's ok. professional studios will hardly use it next ten years though. also C++ being problematic is exaggerated. C++ is difficult for novices. for professionals, memory-related issues happen pretty rarely. also there are shitloads of ready libraries for C++. of course if you're novice, you don't know about them, and will reinvent the wheel wasting your time for trivial things. for pro's, c++ is able of speedcoding too. also you get runtime speed.

[system0system0]

like blind followers following there leader hah

[dman0042]

you could make any game in xna that you could with c++

[MrRobertFritz]

alin116: XNA is very cool for all games. Look at the XNA 4.0 & Harvest 3D project on mobile! C++ no longer support on Windows mobile. C# will be primer language for everything.

[alin116]

I seriously doubt that C# will be primer language for everything. why is the xbox sdk on c++ then? why is the ps3 sdk on c++? why does every major company make games in c++ with directX or openGL? because XNA is for new developers which are just learning game development, in other words, for newbs. I use both C++ and DX and C# + XNA. honestly, I wouldn't use XNA at everything except prototypes. XNA is just a very high level DX wrapper. c++ & DX/OGL >>>>> XNA. full stop.

[sutasman]

@alin116: c++ is still used simply because in laymans terms it is the "fastest" language. however one of the main problems with c++ is that it is unmanaged. as is direct x. using c# and xna, a managed language and a managed library, vastly decrease coding time, increase productivity, reduce time spent finding/fixing memory-related bugs, etc. In short, you can expect the near future to be languages like c# and java, c++'s day are highly limited.

[alin116]

@sutasman the "c++ is unmanaged" thing is bullshit for people that can't write wrappers. I have a pretty good set of wrappers (2-3 hours of coding) with which I can code games extremely fast. I've been doing gamedev in c++ for ~6 years. I had a memory-related bug only once, and I've done a crap load of really complex things. it's more of a "I'm so stupid that I can't even think something through before I do it, so it won't have bugs." excuse. c++ is here to stay.

[alin116]

@sutasman I've done gamedev in java and in c#. they are as slow and sluggish as hell. the management part in managed languages slows them down like hell when doing big and complex simulations. have you wondered why big games are never written in c# or java?it's because c++ gives you direct control over stuff. c#/java don't do that. you can't do really complex stuff in java & c#, because they choke. very few games are made in java/c#. everyone talks about it, but nobody does it.

[sutasman]

I'd take ease of use every day. Now you can make complex things in C#/Java, its just that no-one bothers because they all have the same misconception that you have - that C++ is 10x, 20x faster than everything else. Both C# and Java are less than 1.5x slower than C++, are are getting very close to par performance. As for games with C#/XNA? Check out Xbox Live Indie Games. As for wrappers, sure they work but for the incredibly small performance hit, you save yourself a lot of time and headaches

[alin116]

@sutasman do you have any idea how much 1.5x slower is? EXTREMELY slow. also, java and c#+xna have artificial limitations. if you don't have a fairly good pc, they don't run properly. but with c++ you can simply adapt everything so it runs as it should. also, there are enormous disadvantages and headaches in "only-OOP" languages, but I won't go into that now. Trust me when I tell you. big games will be forever made in c++. the xbox, ps3, openGL and directX sdk are c++.

[sutasman]

I realise 1.5x is 60fps compared to 90fps, for example. But I said it was less than that, and getting less as time goes on. These artificial limitations...Java is interpreted so that will always hold it back. But C# has...nothing. If you are implying Java and C# are also OO-only languages, thats not true, technically there is no single paradigm to describe Java or C# or C++, all would be multi-paradigm. XNA is also made for Xbox 360 - eventually the C++ SDK will get deprecated.

[alin116]

@sutasman I was talking about xna. xna has limitations too. and no, c++ sdk won't get deprecated. c++ gives you great optimization possibilities. only asm is better. also, xna doesn't give you access to more than 30% of what the xbox can do. and it's managed, slowing it down when you don't want to. even 0.5x slower is a huge impact of high performance simulations. it's the difference between ~60fps and ~30fps in, let's say, crysis, or gears of war.

[sutasman]

@alin116: Of course XNA has limitations, thats the whole point about the tradeoff between ease of use and performance. However, how many companies are making the next Crysis? Probably not more than 5-10. For everyone else who doesn't need the absolutely maximum performance, then a managed language and API is probably better for them. Haven't you noticed recently how most games are shit? Developers focus too much on graphics and not enough on story. And stop pulling numbers from nowhere.

[alin116]

@sutasman ok, this is really getting stupid. we obviously want different things from a proper programming language. oh, btw, games aren't all about graphics. you need to do physics simulations and other processing that eat up your cpu pretty fast. but anyway, use and think whatever you like, cause this is boring the hell out of me.

[alexgrinkov]

@sutasman

"Haven't you noticed recently how most games are shit? Developers focus too much on graphics and not enough on story"

well, as far as I know, most games out there license and reuse engines that are being developed by separate companies/teams. gamedev studios simple reuse ready-to-use kits (like Unreal, id5 etc.) by writing dialogs and scripts, modeling models and inserting them into the engine. they don't focus on graphics.

so your argument is invalid. xna won't solve problems

[ruscris2]

yeah, but C++ is still, and will be the coding horsepower ! In C#, your program can't be fully optimazed when in C++ will !

[sutasman]

@ruscris2: thats completely wrong.

[MrRobertFritz]

alin116: XNA is very cool for all games. Look at the XNA 4.0 & Harvest 3D project on mobile! C++ no longer support on Windows mobile. C# will be primer language for everything.

[alin116]

yup, xna is faster to code that let's say, traditional directX, but it's not that good when it comes to performance...you don't have the same low level access directx and c++ give you to make tweaks in order for your game to run fast and awesome....xna is somewhat good for prototyping....but I wouldn't use it when making an actual game....

[lRever]

That's bullshit, xna is managed directX, it's formed around it to ease some of the work. You can make a fully fledged game using the xna framework...

[alin116]

it's not bullshit. for example, the SpriteBatch shader which renders the sprites, is one of the worst there is....not to mention the fact that xna compiles shaders in a somewhat stupid manner. I didn't say you can't make games...you can...but for big projects, you'd be better off with something else.

[MrRobertFritz]

@alin116: XNA is very cool for all games. Look at the XNA 4.0 & Harvest 3D project on mobile! C++ no longer support on Windows mobile. C# will be primer language for everything.

[DarkHaschen]

its around 80MB to download xna and if you dont have visual studio exspress its around 139MB

[HawkEyeSlay]

Go Excusen. Are you a programmer or whatever? Go XNA. :P

[Excusen]

Man cane some one help how to make a game i am beginer in this and i will know how to use that and make my games. :D

Plz Help me..

It isent videos!

Do some body know where i cane find videos so i learn?

[HawkEyeSlay]

1. Learn C#:

C# in 21 days

Troelsen's C# 2008 bible

etc. (1-2 years)

2. learn game development with XNA:

Beginning XNA 3.0 Game Programming From Novice to Professional

etc (few months)

Good luck!

[HawkEyeSlay]

learn, learn, learn

[HawkEyeSlay]

.NET and C# are strong rapid things for game development. Look at the WPF XNA interop vs CEGUI, or DLR vs LUA.

[boneshk]

Does game studio use xna too for developing games?

are there any relationship between this and directx?

I' completely new to game developement and would like to have answer to these questions, Thanks!

[xboxgamemaker]

I dont' think big game studios use XNA. The one I'm on now (just with some friends) so it' not a big studio. We right now trying to use XNA to make a Xbox Live CG. If you should be interested to see how an Xbox 360 game is made "in real time, you should check out the video Xbox 360 game making in real time".

[RabidNinjaStudios]

Hey!

1.Yes many in depended studios use it.

2. It IS directX just with a few helper functions to help you.

[luka1184]

XNAftw What are you talking about?? At this ytime you can also get 3.0, and you can too get Express 3.0, and if you dont know it, Express is maked harder to use and can make better games, and Express working fine with my own Xbox 360!

[McBainMwa]

can i use blender 3D models for xna?

[RefactorXNA]

Yes, Blender can export to .X format directly.

[TheGamerRepublic]

It's nice. But you can barely see the screen.

[XNAftw]

Don't get express, get 2.0

It is the newest version that supports 360. The 3.0 CTP only works with Zune right now.

[Jaketheleopard]

For XNA Game Studios 1.0, what graphics creator should I use? I mean, what do I use to create everything? Also, maybe it's cause I'm on my friend's vista computer, but when I download the visual c# express sp1 (or whatever it's called, but I know sp1's at the end), I try to install it but it says it has an error and the update may not be for any existing software. I need it to install XNA so where do I get Visual C# Express Edition SP1? Is Sp1 only for xp? I know nothing on XNA! need basics!!

[pnpublic]

google.

[M3chPilotSmith]

What the hell models did he say are supported??? (.X) and what???

[agentcox]

.FBX.

[wisam91]

when will the next XNA will be released??

i want VS2008 SUPPORT :(

[Robmanssoftware]

"when will the next XNA will be released??

i want VS2008 SUPPORT :("

Now you can download the beta version:

blogs[dot]msdn[dot]com/xna/arc­hive/2008/05/07/announcing-xna­-game-studio-3-0-community-tec­hnical-preview-ctp[dot]aspx

[Zipstacracksta]

Yes CryEngine is good. BUT, a true game developer learns how to code...

[rubent100]

wtf is this bullshit, you newbs need to go check out crytek 2 engine, no coding involved kids.

[Doodman775]

Is it free? Does it run on the 360?

[Enigma415]

Ok, noob. I bet you can't even program a simple "Hello World" app, and now you say go and use other premade engines instead of learning how to make better ones then that. Go fuck yourself, and don't bitch here.

[thefooyah]

If one wants to program applications, and subsequently code video games for a living, one must be able to code. You are evidently a person who is not going to do that.

Please go back to playing games, and stop trying to sound intelligent about the current topic of programming them.

[sithspwn]

building 7

[HellzNightmarez3]

one question? WHERE THE HELL IS MICROSOFT GAME STUDIO?! please coment back

[Robmanssoftware]

"one question? WHERE THE HELL IS MICROSOFT GAME STUDIO?! please coment back"

You can download it, checking tutorials etc in its official homepage: creators[dot]xna[dot]com

[rock3tcat]

But the XNA kit doesn't work on the Visual C# 2008 express edition :(

[Robmanssoftware]

XNA 3.0 will work with VS 2008 and CLR 3.5!

[Koolio1230]

im going to make it happen!

[Koolio1230]

im going to make it happen!

[UnrealGlitching]

Nice, Where did he say to go for good tutorials?

[rock3tcat]

creators[dot]xna[dot]com/Educa­tion/Tutorials[dot]aspx

[txm420]

this is a really cool video... i was scared to pick up XNA because it's very foreign to me, but after seeing this it seems much easier than a lot of things I've tried...

check out the video "XNA Racing Game" for a BEAUTIFUL looking game made in XNA...

[ElectricG]

was he gettin heckled?? i swear he called someone a prick at the very end.

[agentcox]

No, I called for Rick Hoskinson, the next speaker.

[EBeBIG]

@agentcox lol rick/prick same thing ! :P

Nice video, thanks for the guide Charles.

[dfcolem]

Guy says he almost does it in 6 he did it just under 5 he starts at :26 and ends at 5:24

[scarfatty]

Doesn't the ps3 use linux?

[DavidGsVideos]

No, the PlayStation 3 runs on its own independently-developed operating system; but the PS3 can run some version of Linux (namely Fedora Core).

[fdsdfsdf44]

i xna but i have not that window, also what is turbo squid??? lol so fag

[DavidGsVideos]

Turbo Squid is a great resource for 3D models.

[ShoTro]

I like how the guy filming or who ever is talking loudly can't seem to tell time. XD He claims it was 6 minutes when the video has only been running for 4:30 minutes. People are stupid.

[Northmost47]

So now anybody can make games for the XBox, huh? Well that's a big step in the right direction, but not everybody who has an idea for a game loves programming. I'd like to see Playstation do this, but include some codeless design tools that make it so anyone can make games.

[imnoteamplayer]

Great jeeoorb!

[xbox360master]

some1 make a ps3 vs. xbox360 video plz

[Devourer09]

Why...?

[DavidGsVideos]

Enough with the gay PS3/X360 fanboy videos.

[r3light]

Dude not only homebrew. We get to see PC games on our 360! This is a fantastic piece of software!

[Smokestorm]

It's hard not to be impressed by XNA, if microsoft handle this right next year we could see some great independent XNA titles for the xbox360.

Homebrew FTW!

[gamehunter101]

nice

[badam89]

XNA can lead to something big. I heard that not all of the games made with XNA will get to the 360.

[peckfeckler]

of course not.. ive made over 100 and havn't put one on the 360 yet..

[tylerhavlin]

You're the fuckin' man, d00d.