The corvette finished first. The reason it looks like it came 2nd is because its farther away, making it look shorter and smaller. Also keep in mind that the corvette is abit longer than the GTR. Its not when the tires touch the line, its the front bumper you noob. because then, someone could have extra long tires like a tank, and cross the finish line first even though the actual front of the car would be 10 feet back. Dosent take alot of thought sherlock...
@Corvette35000 no you are wrong....dragtimesinfo put the camera at a position that they can tell who won the race..look at 0:38 the camera is exactly inline with the finish line....what you trying to say is true if the camera is infront of the finish line...if the vette won, you can see the red bumper when cross the line
@davelerthing21 Im not saying your wrong, but how do you know the camera was exactly parralell? It may look like it is, but it couldnt be...and another thing I would just say they should have a camera in the middle and on the other side so they can see officially who won like in all their other videos...cuz now we cant see if the covette driver floored it right at the end and passed him by an inch or something...once again, not saying your wrong, but still. XD
@angelofdeath2874, TRUE the GTR isn't in any list but think...the cheapest car on those list is 1mill at least, i mean cmn!! were talking about a $100k car. its awesome enough just to have the right to rum among them.
@lamborgini0103 PUES SI WE...EL BUGGATTI ES EL 2 KARRO MAS RAPIDO DEL MUNDO...EL ZR1 ES NOMAS UN KARRO DEPORTIBO DE LA CHEVY...NO AY KOMPARASION NINGUNA ENTRE UN BUGATTI O UN ZR1...SON 2 NIVELES DIFERENTES DE KARROS...
i cant believe people are arguing about this shitty ass car. when you talk about fastest cars on the planet the gtr isnt even on the list. so who cares, watch the vid and shut the fuck up
If I remember right that was a low boost build. The higher boost builds can easily exceed 1k hp, but that is just insane. I love the sound of the dyno bays when they get checked out though. The driver was literally playing with the distance between him and the GT-R. Not saying that GT-R isn't fast with a lot amount of power to move the AWD setup. I would love to own one one day. The title is misleading a bit as LPE means Lingenfelter Performance Engineering. Kind of like saying ATM machine
** Subscribed even with the awkward and annoying moment when all the comments below the video are @some_dumb_motherfucker reply comments that end up not making any fucking sense to read...**
@altimgamr Far superior? You're like talking to a three year old mentally and a twenty year old with no friends socially. Pointless, you're to uninformed to know better and really just want someone to talk to so you never shut up.
@gotmatt2 figures thats all a simple mind like you could come up with. you probly just shouldnt even reply if you dont even know anything about cars to start with. gtr has 4 seats weights so much more and is still faster than the vette haha. get a life troll
@altimgamr Oh you got me! I'm the troll, fucking hysterical. Faster is a matter of perspective. It's faster in a straight line, but back when muscles ruled that criteria import lovers talked about how turning was what's important. Now around a track the Z06/ZR1 is better and you idiots talk about straight line acceleration. What's funny is that you're too stupid to realize you simply pick whatever "your" car is better at because you're biased. Four seats my ass, maybe for babies or groceries
@gotmatt2 the z06 lost around the track dude. idk and you dont know what youre talking about. take your own advice kiddy before you make yourself look even dumber.
@altimgamr Really what track? And which year Z06 compared to to which year GTR? Last time I checked the Z06 had no problem beating the GTR, whether it be at VIR, the ring, laguna seca, or any track since GM gave it PTM. That goes double since GM gave it the pilot sport cups. Kiddie. Seriously, stop telling other people to do their research and learn something about cars when you obviously haven't done so.
@gotmatt2 In each of the cases mentioned above the Z06 beat or is within a ten or two of a second. When it did lose its was because the driver elected not to use the PTM (i.e Randy Pobst) Make sure you compare cars that are in the same year/position in their life cycles. Comparing a 2005 Z06 to a 2013 GTR is stupid.
@gotmatt2 the ring dude. 2012 gtr 721 2012 z06 722 with slicks. you need to stop trolling dude you should really learn about the subject before trying to defend something you know nothing about
@altimgamr Um, dude that 7:21 time you mention is a fake time, Nissan themselves stated so. They stated that somebody spliced together pieces of legitimate footage and added a fake timer - google it and see for yourself.
Slicks = you're fucking retarded. Semi - slick DOT legal tires are not slicks. Slicks aren't road legal and the vette isn't the only car to use the sport cups. These tires are perfectly fair to use just like the GTR's AWD is perfectly fair, get over it.
Michelin pilot sport cup tires are not slicks and these are the tires that come on the Z06 and ZR1. They are 100% legal and come on the production car.
Google GTR 7:21 fake and those three words will bring you to several links that have information about the fake time. Nissan themselves admitted it was fake. You're just crying because it's true.
This is why you're a troll, you are an idiot and know nothing about what you talk, but knowing your weakness you claim this of everyone else. You know they know they aren't dumb and will tell you where you're wrong and you can continue to be a complete moron and get them to respond. After about five interactions the realize you just need somebody to be your friend because nobody likes you. They leave and you move on to the next poor bastard. Get a life and get off YouTube.
The Michelin Pilot sport cups tires are not slicks, slicks don't have tread and these DO. They are DOT legal, racing slicks are NOT. The Dodge Viper ACR, Porsche GT3 and GT2 and the BMW M3 csl all use them BUT the 991 turbo doesn't why? AWD I doubt Nissan and Porsche would miss out if it mattered. BTW ferrari uses pzero corsas the same class as the sport cups, so stop crying.
Google thetruthaboutcars and nissan distances itself from rogue gtr ring video for proof the time is FAKE.
@altimgamr buddy, i'm not the one who starts arguments on nearly all corvette videos , why don't you show me some links first and then talk. oh and let's finish your argument first and then come to here and argue all right ? why don't you get a life ? i bet you get 9+ replys and they all are about arguments on corvette videos
@altimgamr buddy, i'm not the one who starts arguments on nearly all corvette videos , why don't you show me some links first and then talk. oh and let's finish your argument first and then come to here and argue all right ? why don't you get a life ? i bet you get 9+ replys and they all are about arguments on corvette videos LOL
So many GTR haters out there lol. Wow. They are both very very different cars, yet they run almost identical in this race. Just enjoy the video. Who cares if the ZR1 did a 7.19. I dont think the top 1% of all the haters on here would get close to that time lol. Anyway, peace out!
I did come off as a hater, which I admitted, so shame on me. Actually, I respect the GT-R for its technical and performance merits, even though the R35 did suffer some rather questionable teething problems after it hit the streets. I'm simply addressing the Vette haters by responding to fact-starved crap talk with facts.
Thank you! Then again, it's easy when you abandon hate and resentment and align yourself with the facts. I'm not here to defend the Vette. She can take care of herself (as she's proven time and again). I'm just here to set the record straight. Cheers!
@sciullo779 oh take that back 5 seconds gtr 7:24 zr1 7:19 and who cares about punctuation whatever makes you feel better and sleep at night. I own vette you own a scooter and your bitter obviously cant handle a opinion. Nissan dosnt even know you yet you rep it like your in the armed forces get a life1... PUNCTUATION LOL THATS IT?
@legendarylt1 ive been a certified gtr tech for 2 years now...
i never said the zr1 wasnt a faster car, all i want to see is a fair race at the same conditions, think about it, a wet lap over a 10+ mile course... there will be some variance between a wet and a dry lap. hell if its so negligible lets race the zr1 on a wet track and see how it does.
and even if i could afford a vette, i wouldnt buy one, why you ask, because ive never seen someone under 40 driving one...
@sciullo779 thats not what your mom said. Second im sure the size of an egine dosnt determone penis size. I have not yet to see a 8,000hp import. saecond I own two imports. also me owning a corvette is better than what you own and worth more than the basement you live in kid. WTF!! milfs are sexy what are you seventeen?
and i prefer to pick up girls my own age... and again, with the assumptions, you dont know what i drive or where i live so how can you make assumptions about me?
you might think your better because you own a corvette, but the truth is, what you drive and how much you make etc have no bearing on whos better then who.
@FraAngelico729 okay? thats 1 person, whats the average age of a corvette owner?
then again who knows what the targeted demographic for the GTR, we delivered one to a 22 year old and one to a 68 year old with quite a few in between
@legendarylt1 and this is why nobody likes the muscle guys, they have this superiority complex that makes them think they are the best just because they have a car with a v8 or a $50k car etc. just learn to enjoy everything and stop talking out of your ass. oh, and i wouldnt brag about you owning a corvette, we know your lacking a bit down there, and need some way to attempt to pick up milfs
why gtr always off the line everytime...gets out to a lead always first..maybe that computer shit launch control is not such a bad thing..shit i like those results..put it on the fkn vette then wil c
@FraAngelico729 look at the start of the vid an its THE GTR that is down on hp not the zo6.the fact of the matter is my friend, the GTR for the money is a supercar eater.
@FraAngelico729 um did you see what you said, if you watch it again the z06 has 70hp MORE not less than the GT-R... and plus its a Lingenfelter Z06 at that, all they do is cram as much hp as they can. dont be a sore loser. your the only corvette ill ever respect is the ZR1.
@FraAngelico729 the corvette has higher tourque probably so if they went from a 60 roll he would have ate him up and imma tellin the truth about it and im a huge N.I.S.M.O fan
@FraAngelico729 that was the 09 gtr now do it with the 2012 and im sorry but your favorite little corvette would be put to shame. in every single situation the gtr is better then the vet even in drag. sorry but americans dont make the best drag cars anymore and they most definitely make the worst track cars. oh yeah dip shit and the vet is has the 70 more hp making it even more embarrassing on the vets part.
@sciullo779 oh by the way you can google it, wiki it, and you tube gtr 7:21 is a lie its posted every!!! It seems theres people out there who will make numbers up over a car they will never own.
@FraAngelico729 You got it wrong mate, It's the Vette that has 70hp more and weights about 0.5 tonne less. Of course once both cars are moving the Vette will pull on the GTR because the GTR has a bit of belly on it but you got to admit for a 2 tonne car with only 300hp/tonne the GTR did a very good job.
Imagine this same race but if it was the other way round with the HP the results would be even better for the GTR.
In my eyes GTR is the superior car. GO NISSAN!!!!!!
@namybot "You got it wrong mate, It's the Vette that has 70hp more and weights about 0.5 tonne less."
You're about the 1,000th person who told me that. I saw later that I got it wrong, but I just didn't really care. Anyhoo, you're right about the GT-R performing so well for such a heavy car . Kazutoshi Mizuno (chief engineer) described how the car was designed with extra weight to keep it planted through the corners. Interesting approach and it apparently works well.
It is an amazing performer, but I'm critical because of the initial problems. How does Nissan explain the launch control/warranty voiding debacle? And what was with the transmission shredding? The GT-R was touted as an engineering marvel, but problems like that don't exactly shout 'superior engineering'. Granted, they've solved these problems, but the GT-R has a long history. These problems never should have arisen in the first place.
I'm opting for the Vette. She matches (sometimes beats) the exotics affordably and RELIABLY and she does it without OHV's, variable timing, and coilovers. How does a modern car with pushrods and leaf springs set lap records and win endurance races? World-class engineering my friend. THAT'S why I love the Vette. She kicks ass and defies conventional wisdom. My only criticism is the 'plasticky' interior, but that's aesthetic, not functional.
@sciullo779 "the corvette has a double wishbone suspension....."
Yes it does. And let me tell you about that double wishbone set up. It's lighter, less complex, and less expensive than coilovers and provides the same anti-roll and dampening performance with less unsprung weight. All this without sacrificing ride quality. It's also mated to Delphi's Magnetic Selective Ride Control magnetorheological active handling suspension first pioneered by Cadillac and Corvette back in 2003.
@FraAngelico729 you are correct! magnetic suspension with leaf springs, world war 2 push rod tank engine that some how gets the job done very impressive!!
@legendarylt1 "you are correct! magnetic suspension with leaf springs, world war 2 push rod tank engine that some how gets the job done very impressive!!"
Fitting you should mention WWII. The Corvette was named after the fast and maneuverable naval attack ships that, as it happens, blew Germany, Italy, and Japan out of the water and back to their home ports. Just an interesting bit of history. Cheers.
@FraAngelico729 The Corvette has been known as a really good "track" performer. It ends there.
Everybody knows how awful Corvettes are to drive casually, and the cheep interior will take you right back to the 80s. When plastic was seen as acceptable and nobody cared. Travel across Europe for 10hrs in a Corvette and pray there's a doctor that can save your balls.
There is a lot more to be done even on a ZR1 before it's anywhere close to European standers. Track performance doesn't cut it.
@namybot "Travel across Europe for 10hrs in a Corvette and pray there's a doctor that can save your balls."
I traveled across the US several times in an '86 Vette in perfect comfort. The latest generation is far more refined, so I'll have to dismiss this as your own biased and factless opinion. In fact, the C5 and C6 have been universally praised by the automotive press in the US, Europe, AND Japan as easy to drive as any econo-sedan. You'll forgive me for taking their word over yours.
@namybot "There is a lot more to be done even on a ZR1 before it's anywhere close to European standers."
Such as? Could it be the 51/49 front/rear weight distribution? How about the hydroformed aluminum spaceframe and magnesium alloy subframe/engine cradle? The carbon fiber body, perhaps? Maybe the hypereutectic silicon-aluminum alloy pistons and forged titanium connecting rods? Possibly the all-aluminum engine hand-built in GM's clean room in Wixom, Michigan? Should I keep going?
@namybot "What are you talking about, Z06 or ZR1?"
I'm talking about every trim level of Corvette since 1997 with the introduction of the C5. Gone away is the flexible chassis and the squeaks and rattles that went with it.
The 458 happens to be my favorite current model Ferrari because it's an outstanding car. Unlike you, I'm willing to give credit where it's due.
BTW, the word you're looking for is 'standards', not 'standers'. You don't pick up on subtlety very quickly, do you?
@FraAngelico729 So, it's OK for you to talk about GT racing because you want to and it suits you but because i want to mention LMP it's nonsense because it proves you wrong. Yeah, nice one mate. Jog on.
"Why do i know more about European racing than you"
Evidently you have proven your depth of knowledge in the racing world all from the view of Chevrolet factory roof. Which by the way you couldn't see much, which is referring to you knowing jack shit.
@namybot "You obviously haven't listen to a single word i have said"
Yeah, i read what you wrote but seem as there is no verbal convo I find it particularly hard to listen to text . You're American if people don't agree with you they are wrong, I too have seen it all before. American arrogance is the best in the world. Seem as its the only thing you lot will be best at, cherish it.
@namybot "Considering that this is an aesthetic rather than functional concern, it's actually pretty easy to overlook"
So because you want to overlook it means it's OK.
Wait, we are talking about Street cars now. If we are not then i would agree, but we are. Plastic on cars of this level is way in the past. These days Journalist will judge a car on every single aspect and it not just about how fast a car can go especially when the cars are sold to the public, everything has to be right.
@namybot "That is where personal taste comes in, there is always going to be people with different views. You need to learn to live with that."
I don't really care who loves/hates the Vette or why. I'm simply trying to educate you on the facts, or at least call you out on why you TRULY don't like the car (politics and prejudice). If you jst don't like it, fine. Just don't try to BS everyone by saying untrue things about it, or you'll be called on it. Just like I'm doing.
@FraAngelico729 " "you'd be talking to me (a dip-shit) having a pathetic argument on Youtube."
Seem you're so stupid you can't even sense the sarcastic tone this comment had. It's a good job I'm not taking you seriously, because you are the biggest joke I've come across yet.
@namybot You're under the mistaken impression that I think the Vette is the best car in the world. I don't and I challenge you to show where I ever said that. I know that's not true, but I do know that she's competitive with the best out there. You, on the other, want to go on believing that American cars are inferior and you lash out in resentment when you see yankee cars competing on the world stage and being taken seriously. That will make things very difficult for you. Your choice.
@namybot I also hope you've learned something about arguing an untenable position. As you said, I am educated. The facts are on my side because I learn them beforehand. Open your mind, abandon ignorance and prejudice, and you will be better informed and able to appreciate what you couln't before. You called me the charlatan and told me to 'grow up'. Who between us was equipped with the facts? Who between was throwing the tantrum? Who between us was calling names? That should be obvious.
@namybot The video shows how AWD can give you the edge off the line. It also shows how the Vette devoured the GT-R's lead and lost by inches rather than car lengths. I give full marks to the GT-R. This allows me to appreciate hot cars from all over the world. You, on the other hand, can't overcome your own prejudice and appreciate the Vette's performance. The GT-R driver here probably could when he looked out to his left. Too bad for you.
@namybot "You obviously ignored the bit when i killed you off with the 458 engine Performance."
No. While that WAS the only factual thing you said all this time, I never said the Ferrari is a POS. Again, unlike you, I can appreciate excellent cars regardless of where they're from, and the 458 happens to be among my fave Ferraris. By contrast, you claimed the Vette was lacking in quality (again wanting in facts) and I proved otherwise. You were in over your head from the start.
@namybot "Journalist will judge a car on every single aspect and it not just about how fast a car can go especially when the cars are sold to the public, everything has to be right."
Every review I've read in English, German, French, and Spanish (necessity for living and working in Europe for 6 years) on the Vette was overwhelmingly positive in terms of performance, engineering, and refinement. The ONLY thing they could nitpick was the plastic bits. Beyond that...simply high praise.
@namybot "American arrogance is the best in the world. Seem as its the only thing you lot will be best at, cherish it."
NOW we come to it! You just revealed what I've known all along. It's simply KILLING you inside to see an American made car competing with the world in performance, style, engineering, and quality. What makes it even worse is that people outside the US are taking the Vette seriously. All I can say is you're in for a very difficult time if you maintain this resentment.
@FraAngelico729 "NOW we come to it! You just revealed what I've known all along. It's simply KILLING you inside to see an American made car competing with the world in performance, style, engineering, and quality"
@namybot "As much performance as a Bugatti. As much style as a Ferrari. As much engineering as a Porsche. As much quality as a Rolls Royce."
Wow. So basically you're saying the Vette is competitive with four of the most prestigious marques in the world. Nice to see you're finally coming around! LMAO! XD
@FraAngelico729 Hahaha, What i was saying is that other companies do make better cars than Chevy. You knew exactly what i was saying, I should of put a ? on the end of those sentences.
Yes, the Corvette is a fast and cheep answer but you seriously don't believe it's the best car in the world?
Other manufactures are making much better cars but you got to pay for that perfection. I fully understand the Corvette but at the moment other manufactures are engineering far higher quality cars.
So i guess you got nothing intelligent to say or anything that would prove my point to nothing. I have proven my point correct. I'm not going to say "you lost" because I'm more mature than that.
So what's up, have I made a point you can't argue with because you know I'm right. You full well know that cars will never be equal with any other at any point. My point was from the start was... Corvette is a good car but there's better.
@namybot "So what's up, have I made a point you can't argue with because you know I'm right."
I'm still at a loss. What point?
"You full well know that cars will never be equal with any other at any point. My point was from the start was... Corvette is a good car but there's better."
You went off on some logic-starved tangent comparing the Vette to a Rolls Royce. I never made that comparison- you did. That's where this silly little flame way went from boring to outright strange.
@namybot OK, let me try to help you understand where you went wrong. (Can't believe I'm doing this.)
*SIGH* OK. No, the Vette won't compete with Rolls Royce in luxury (a claim I never made to begin with). Neither will Ferrari, Porsche, or GT-R. But they'll all run CIRCLES around it in performance, an area in which the Vette is HIGHLY competitive. Corvette is also as reliable as any Benz, Porsche, or BMW (Remember that catastrophic engine failure debacle back in 2009? BMW owners do!)
@namybot You also compared the Vette to a Bugatti Veyron. Strange. $100,000 vs. $1,000,000, but OK. The Veyron hits 60 in the 2's, 1/4 in the 10's (barely 1 second faster than Z06/ZR1), and tops out past 260mph. Impressive, but not surprising. I could follow this comparo by saying it takes 16 cylinders, 4 turbos, 1,000hp, and $1mil to beat the Vette. It's also important to note that the Veyron's been roundly criticized for its harsh ride. Not what you'd reasonably expect for $1million.
@namybot So really, I don't have to do anything to demonstrate how deficient your arguments have been. You've been doing that yourself this whole time. All I've been doing is addressing your nonsense with facts. I've just been having a little fun. Which I guess is kinda mean on my part, considering you're out of your league with me. But, hey- it's just YouTube.
@namybot "Can a Corvette complete a rally stage as fast as a Subaru WRX or an Mitsubishi Evo? NO."
Nice try. The Vette's not a rally car, but her lap times beat both around numerous road courses. Plus, the WRX feels like a tin can.
"Can a Corvette hit top speed matching Koenigsegg, Bugatti, SSC? NO"
Her handling matches or beats all three. There's more to performance than top speed. They've also been criticized for their harsh rides. Not something heard about the Vette since 1997.
@namybot "Can a Corvette get as much MPG as a Kia Rio or a VW Lupo? NO"
WTF??? That's just lame! (LMAO) Neither do Ferraris or GT-Rs. A better question is how 7.0 liter V8 gets a ULEV rating.
"Can a Corvette carry as much style as a Ferrari or a Lamborghini? NO"
Style is subjective. Depends on who you ask. For instance, I personally find that while there's no arguing their performance, the Veryon and R35 are ugly as ass (R34 and 370Z are GORGEOUS). So arguing style is pointless.
@namybot "Yes, the Corvette is a fast and cheep answer but you seriously don't believe it's the best car in the world?"
No I don't. If that's your understanding, I'd recommend remedial reading comprehension. All I've been saying is that she's competitive. I also countered your outright dismissal with facts. Nor did I attempt to tear down any other cars to make the Vette look good. I don't need to. That's why she's such a fantastic car. Something you can't seem to accept.
As long as we're on the Veyron's performance (YOU brought it up- not me), it's interesting to note the Bugatti ran the Nordschleife in 7:40, putting it WAY behind the GT-R, Z06, ZR1, 458, MC12, 911 GT2 RS... you get the idea. Does that make all these cars 'better' (whatever the hell that's supposed to mean) than the Veyron? Can you see how your arguments don't apply? *SIGH* I was right. You're not very good at this.
I was trying to make you see other cars have different qualities and now you're trying to say the Corvette can beat every single car on the planet. You are a fool. you're not very good at this are you?
"Nice try. The Vette's not a rally car"
So because a Vettes not a rally car, you don't give a shit. Because other cars are stronger in other areas you'll just ignore it. Thanks for revealing what I have known all along, YOU'RE ARROGANT AND NOW IGNORANT
@namybot "Her handling matches or beats all three. There's more to performance than top speed"
Oh i get it, So because other cars are better than a Vette at top speed, that also doesn't matter because she handles better. Yet again, nice one mate.
"They've also been criticized for their harsh rides. Not something heard about the Vette since 1997"
I seem to remember a episode of top gear where Clarkson drove a ZO6 and said the ride was dam right awful. But I'm forgetting top gear is for Idiots?
Price is nothing to do with performance, you mongrel.
1962 250GTO= $26mill
1964 Shelby Daytona Coupe=$8mill
1956 Aston Martin DBR1= $8mill
1957 250TR=$16mill
1966 Ford GT40=$10mill
So tell me jack-ass is price relevant to a cars performance?
The Bugatti Veyron is a rolling hotel, way better than any car Chevy will make. And thats why you pay for that exclusiveness seem as they was only 40 sold ever yearYou're obviously so far up Chevy arse you'll disagree.
@namybot "You have tried your hardest to win but yet I have prevailed."
I'm not trying to win. I don't need to. You've simply lost because you failed to argue something you couldn't. Specifically, that the Vette is an unmitigated POS. I simply provided facts to the contrary. This has proven frustrating for you. That's evident in your petulant tone. Kinda funny to watch, really.
*SIGH*, **SIGH**. OK, how can i make this more clear to a retard.
From the start my point has been. ZR1 is a good car (I have said this numerous times) but on this planet in the year 2012 there is better cars you could spend your money on.
I know for the money, it's hard to beat but when money is no limit like for most the people that buy these cars, there is much better options.
Do you know there is better cars on this planet? yes or no.
@namybot This is hilarious. For someone who thinks I'm so ignorant and stupid, you sure go out of your way to sound like me. Awesome. Ironically, you and I seem to be arguing the same point from opposite ends. You're saying that there are cars that outclass the Vette in some areas while conceding in others. I'm saying the same from the Vette's perspective. However, I'm being more circumspect, while you've never acknowledged any of the Vette's quality (despite your claims).
@namybot "I'm not sure but maybe you're too attached to the Corvette series. That's why I find it easier to say than you."
Not really. The Vette became a world-class contender in 1997 with the 5th generation (which I don't find particularly attractive), something GM couldn't say since 1966. All models in between, while endearing in their own way, were plagued by a flimsy chassis and an anemic engine. So your read is wrong, because you're only (vaguely) aware of this latest generation.
@namybot "But If you look at a 458 it has 560hp and 400ft-lbs from a V8 with out the aid of Forced Induction. That is a massive achievement."
It's wonderful, but not 'massive'. Virtually EVERY engine manufactured is capable of FAR more power beyond factory specs. They're simply not produced that way. Why? A.) Most customers buy these cars for what the builders produce. B.) That would alienate the tuners, and the aftermarket helps makers with HUGE sales boosts based on what they offer.
@namybot "And that's what I mean about other cars being better in areas."
You make the same mistake so many others do by assuming that this is all GM can achieve with their engines. You forget about the tuners and suppliers I mentioned before. The GM aftermarket is HUGE, and a LOT of customers buy Corvettes (for example) because they're easily tunable for ever increasing levels of performance. Maxing out performance not only drives up factory price, it leaves nothing for the tuners.
@namybot If you want an even broader picture of how good the GM engineering has become, check out how many 1,000hp+ NA LS6's and LS7's are out there. Check out the 1,000hp+ 2.2L GM I4 that John Lingenfelter (RIP) built. Sure it's turbocharged and not a small block V8, but it is yet another example of the potential of GM's engineering. I revere Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche, et al. That's beyond question. It's just time people took notice that GM is an automotive force beyond dismissal.
@namybot "Where I'm from, I could by 916hp Supra for 40k. I know the rest of the car is shit."
So can I, but I have to disagree on the rest of the car. It's as ugly as a baboon's ass, but it's an amazing piece of performance engineering and was WAY ahead of its time.
@FraAngelico729 You see I'm the other way round. I think It looks nice, but for 1994 when it came out, they was skylines just as fast. And Honda had the NSX around that time.
I just want to mention something and I'm not being hostile about it.
"It's wonderful, but not 'massive'"
I think it is massive, to say it is the first engine of all time to have that HP and Torque with 8 cylinders, no forced induction and 4.5L of displacement.
@namybot "I think It looks nice, but for 1994 when it came out, they was skylines just as fast. And Honda had the NSX around that time."
I absolutely LOVE the R34, especially its looks. The NSX was sexy for its time, but Honda did the car no favors when they failed ot update it during later years.
@namybot "it is the first engine of all time to have that HP and Torque with 8 cylinders, no forced induction and 4.5L of displacement."
It might be the first factory produced engine sold with those specs, but it's certainly not the first ever to hit the streets. That's my point. It's a mistake to think that factory specs represent the upper limit of ANY engine. But I have to agree that it IS an engineering masterpiece.
@namybot That's all great. So basically, when speaking of Ferrari, Porsche, GT-R, Lamborghini, etc., the Corvette is among peers in many respects. Not all, as we've pointed out (and beaten the subject to death in the process). Style is subjective, but it's not hard to find people both in and outside the US who would include this. Othwerise, in terms of performance and reliability (which can be objectively quantified), the Z06 and ZR1 are AMONG the world's best high-performance cars.
@FraAngelico729 Yes, I do agree. The Vettes are among the world best Performance cars. But there is a difference.
The Vette has a 6.0L V8 Supercharged producing 630hp and 600 torques and on top of that the ZR1 weight is very favorable. Of course Its' going to be fast, no surprise there. But if you take a look at how fast Porsche cars are with such small HP (most of the time) It really makes you appreciate a good set up car. RWDRE Is a killer set-up and Porsche have it down to a T
@namybot "Not exactly a glowing recommendation, and discounts LOTS of reviews that say nothing close"
I have also seen reviews about 10 mins ago, they said the new 2012 Z06 and the old ZR1 were very comfortable but the cheep and flimsy interior is disapointing.
I was wrong about the drive comfort ( I hold my hands up to that) BUT I'm still right about the awful interior and that needs to be sorted of for me.
@namybot "the new 2012 Z06 and the old ZR1 were very comfortable... I was wrong about the drive comfort ( I hold my hands up to that)"
I HAVE heard nitpicks about the ride comfort, but nothing really critical. High performance cars have stiffer suspensions as it is, so nobody should expect the feel of a Bentley from say a Porsche, Ferrari, Vette, or GT-R. I probably should have specified that this is coming from a perspective in the car's class.
@namybot "the cheep and flimsy interior is disapointing...I'm still right about the awful interior and that needs to be sorted of for me."
Jay Leno said that with everything else you get, the interior shouldn't be a big deal. Hey, GM- you're making a car that starts at $50,000. I don't think a little savings on interior materials really matter at this point, guys! (LOL) I definitely agree on the interior. I don't mind shelling out a little extra for a decent interior.
@namybot I'm also not crazy about the seats. They're comfortable, but not NEARLY as supportive as those in the 4th gen. GM uses these seats in response to consumer complaints about difficulty in clearing the side bolsters. I'll admit to clipping my nuts on the sides every now and then (an experience I can't recommend), but I prefer to feel secure in the corners. The current models feel like the seats in my dad's Volvo! (LOL) XD
@namybot "take a look at how fast Porsche cars are with such small HP (most of the time) It really makes you appreciate a good set up car"
Oh, no doubt! I've fallen in love with Porsche all over again, especially since they got rid of that god-awful front end (Cayenne and Panamera shoud be next!). How they make a car so well-balanced with the engine way the hell out in the back is beyond me. Then again, it's not large and heavy, and I swear Porsche gets their engineers from Hogwarts!
The corvette finished first. The reason it looks like it came 2nd is because its farther away, making it look shorter and smaller. Also keep in mind that the corvette is abit longer than the GTR. Its not when the tires touch the line, its the front bumper you noob. because then, someone could have extra long tires like a tank, and cross the finish line first even though the actual front of the car would be 10 feet back. Dosent take alot of thought sherlock...
Corvette35000 3 days ago
@Corvette35000 no you are wrong....dragtimesinfo put the camera at a position that they can tell who won the race..look at 0:38 the camera is exactly inline with the finish line....what you trying to say is true if the camera is infront of the finish line...if the vette won, you can see the red bumper when cross the line
davelerthing21 2 days ago
@davelerthing21 Im not saying your wrong, but how do you know the camera was exactly parralell? It may look like it is, but it couldnt be...and another thing I would just say they should have a camera in the middle and on the other side so they can see officially who won like in all their other videos...cuz now we cant see if the covette driver floored it right at the end and passed him by an inch or something...once again, not saying your wrong, but still. XD
Corvette35000 2 days ago
close call but I think the GT-R crossed first
alexadru93 1 week ago
See...
Boomandpower 1 week ago
@angelofdeath2874, TRUE the GTR isn't in any list but think...the cheapest car on those list is 1mill at least, i mean cmn!! were talking about a $100k car. its awesome enough just to have the right to rum among them.
4brolyss 1 week ago
@4brolyss i never thought of it that way, gotta give it to you. youre right
angelofdeath2874 1 week ago
UN BUGATTI ES MAS DEPORTIBO QUE UN CORVETTE ZR1
lamborgini0103 1 week ago
@lamborgini0103 PUES SI WE...EL BUGGATTI ES EL 2 KARRO MAS RAPIDO DEL MUNDO...EL ZR1 ES NOMAS UN KARRO DEPORTIBO DE LA CHEVY...NO AY KOMPARASION NINGUNA ENTRE UN BUGATTI O UN ZR1...SON 2 NIVELES DIFERENTES DE KARROS...
pansitasloko13 1 week ago
old gtr ...
Solider134 1 week ago 3
GTR is quick Corvette loses ...........
R34GTRR35 1 week ago
@R34GTRR35 time wise the vette won
lamboisking 1 week ago 4
@lamboisking So what, im talking about the whole competition , google 2011 MOSCOW Unlim winners list .
R34GTRR35 1 week ago
i cant believe people are arguing about this shitty ass car. when you talk about fastest cars on the planet the gtr isnt even on the list. so who cares, watch the vid and shut the fuck up
angelofdeath2874 2 weeks ago
20 more ft and the Vette woulda had him....
07SuperchargedSS 2 weeks ago
@07SuperchargedSS Porsche and GTR win this event every year
R34GTRR35 1 week ago
the same stupid argument over Nürburgring times... Come on people...
1st: do you believe, that the times are 100 % true and done with 100 % stock cars ? I don't think so...
2nd: Only racedrivers can reach those times, normal customers only in their dream, most of them would struggle to go below 9 minutes in ANY car
3rd: if you choose a car because of Nürburgring times, you should get your head checked soon
Banderius79 2 weeks ago
If I remember right that was a low boost build. The higher boost builds can easily exceed 1k hp, but that is just insane. I love the sound of the dyno bays when they get checked out though. The driver was literally playing with the distance between him and the GT-R. Not saying that GT-R isn't fast with a lot amount of power to move the AWD setup. I would love to own one one day. The title is misleading a bit as LPE means Lingenfelter Performance Engineering. Kind of like saying ATM machine
levisimpreza 2 weeks ago
gtr killed? huh.......
losercust 3 weeks ago
** Subscribed even with the awkward and annoying moment when all the comments below the video are @some_dumb_motherfucker reply comments that end up not making any fucking sense to read...**
dalesalsa 3 weeks ago
SUBSCRIBED... Great race...
dalesalsa 3 weeks ago
gtr killed that POS
altimgamr 3 weeks ago
@altimgamr God. You are so lame. Again with your troll line out. What a loser
gotmatt2 3 weeks ago
@gotmatt2 agree..
Bravo12RX 2 weeks ago
@gotmatt2 dont be butt hurt that your shitty vette lost to the far superior gtr. its pretty common
altimgamr 2 weeks ago
@altimgamr Far superior? You're like talking to a three year old mentally and a twenty year old with no friends socially. Pointless, you're to uninformed to know better and really just want someone to talk to so you never shut up.
gotmatt2 2 weeks ago
@gotmatt2 figures thats all a simple mind like you could come up with. you probly just shouldnt even reply if you dont even know anything about cars to start with. gtr has 4 seats weights so much more and is still faster than the vette haha. get a life troll
altimgamr 2 weeks ago
@altimgamr Oh you got me! I'm the troll, fucking hysterical. Faster is a matter of perspective. It's faster in a straight line, but back when muscles ruled that criteria import lovers talked about how turning was what's important. Now around a track the Z06/ZR1 is better and you idiots talk about straight line acceleration. What's funny is that you're too stupid to realize you simply pick whatever "your" car is better at because you're biased. Four seats my ass, maybe for babies or groceries
gotmatt2 2 weeks ago
@gotmatt2 the z06 lost around the track dude. idk and you dont know what youre talking about. take your own advice kiddy before you make yourself look even dumber.
altimgamr 2 weeks ago
@altimgamr Really what track? And which year Z06 compared to to which year GTR? Last time I checked the Z06 had no problem beating the GTR, whether it be at VIR, the ring, laguna seca, or any track since GM gave it PTM. That goes double since GM gave it the pilot sport cups. Kiddie. Seriously, stop telling other people to do their research and learn something about cars when you obviously haven't done so.
gotmatt2 2 weeks ago
@gotmatt2 In each of the cases mentioned above the Z06 beat or is within a ten or two of a second. When it did lose its was because the driver elected not to use the PTM (i.e Randy Pobst) Make sure you compare cars that are in the same year/position in their life cycles. Comparing a 2005 Z06 to a 2013 GTR is stupid.
gotmatt2 2 weeks ago
@gotmatt2 the ring dude. 2012 gtr 721 2012 z06 722 with slicks. you need to stop trolling dude you should really learn about the subject before trying to defend something you know nothing about
altimgamr 2 weeks ago
@altimgamr Um, dude that 7:21 time you mention is a fake time, Nissan themselves stated so. They stated that somebody spliced together pieces of legitimate footage and added a fake timer - google it and see for yourself.
Slicks = you're fucking retarded. Semi - slick DOT legal tires are not slicks. Slicks aren't road legal and the vette isn't the only car to use the sport cups. These tires are perfectly fair to use just like the GTR's AWD is perfectly fair, get over it.
Listen to yourself.
gotmatt2 2 weeks ago
@gotmatt2 it didnt used semi slicks dumbass it used slicks. 721 is legit youre just crying like a little bitch. get over it kid gtr is just faster
altimgamr 2 weeks ago
@altimgamr
Michelin pilot sport cup tires are not slicks and these are the tires that come on the Z06 and ZR1. They are 100% legal and come on the production car.
Google GTR 7:21 fake and those three words will bring you to several links that have information about the fake time. Nissan themselves admitted it was fake. You're just crying because it's true.
You must be so lonely.
gotmatt2 2 weeks ago
@gotmatt2 kid youre just clueless thats all that can be said of you. gtr got 721 and z06 used slicks. gtr>z06 loser now get a life
altimgamr 2 weeks ago
@altimgamr
This is why you're a troll, you are an idiot and know nothing about what you talk, but knowing your weakness you claim this of everyone else. You know they know they aren't dumb and will tell you where you're wrong and you can continue to be a complete moron and get them to respond. After about five interactions the realize you just need somebody to be your friend because nobody likes you. They leave and you move on to the next poor bastard. Get a life and get off YouTube.
gotmatt2 2 weeks ago
@altimgamr
The Michelin Pilot sport cups tires are not slicks, slicks don't have tread and these DO. They are DOT legal, racing slicks are NOT. The Dodge Viper ACR, Porsche GT3 and GT2 and the BMW M3 csl all use them BUT the 991 turbo doesn't why? AWD I doubt Nissan and Porsche would miss out if it mattered. BTW ferrari uses pzero corsas the same class as the sport cups, so stop crying.
Google thetruthaboutcars and nissan distances itself from rogue gtr ring video for proof the time is FAKE.
gotmatt2 2 weeks ago
@altimgamr wow you're nothing but a troll.
Bravo12RX 2 weeks ago
@Bravo12RX actually thats you kid. i give facts you give shit because thats all you are. a piece of shit troll. get a life kid gtr>z06
altimgamr 2 weeks ago
@altimgamr buddy, i'm not the one who starts arguments on nearly all corvette videos , why don't you show me some links first and then talk. oh and let's finish your argument first and then come to here and argue all right ? why don't you get a life ? i bet you get 9+ replys and they all are about arguments on corvette videos
Bravo12RX 2 weeks ago
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@altimgamr buddy, i'm not the one who starts arguments on nearly all corvette videos , why don't you show me some links first and then talk. oh and let's finish your argument first and then come to here and argue all right ? why don't you get a life ? i bet you get 9+ replys and they all are about arguments on corvette videos LOL
Bravo12RX 2 weeks ago
@gotmatt2 don't bother with him, he's nothing but the common youtube troll.
Bravo12RX 2 weeks ago
@altimgamr din't even reply, i'm done with you. Get a life and off YouTube
gotmatt2 2 weeks ago
what no time?
gotmatt2 1 month ago
So many GTR haters out there lol. Wow. They are both very very different cars, yet they run almost identical in this race. Just enjoy the video. Who cares if the ZR1 did a 7.19. I dont think the top 1% of all the haters on here would get close to that time lol. Anyway, peace out!
HybridTheorykid1 1 month ago
@HybridTheorykid1 "So many GTR haters out there lol."
I did come off as a hater, which I admitted, so shame on me. Actually, I respect the GT-R for its technical and performance merits, even though the R35 did suffer some rather questionable teething problems after it hit the streets. I'm simply addressing the Vette haters by responding to fact-starved crap talk with facts.
FraAngelico729 1 month ago
@FraAngelico729 spoken like a true champ
legendarylt1 1 month ago
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@legendarylt1 "spoken like a true champ"
Thank you! Then again, it's easy when you abandon hate and resentment and align yourself with the facts. I'm not here to defend the Vette. She can take care of herself (as she's proven time and again). I'm just here to set the record straight. Cheers!
FraAngelico729 1 month ago 2
one word to describe the race.... " RAPED!"
rhysgoss87 1 month ago
There are 5 idiots + FranAngelico who can't read right lol
suciaaguadecoco 1 month ago
@suciaaguadecoco including me make that six!!
legendarylt1 1 month ago
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acopBrad 1 month ago
in these races they would say a a 1500hp z06 runs like high 12's so fake
Sel3151 1 month ago
GT-R is so overrated. Put that PoS up against a zr1 then see what happens
MrBabymack 1 month ago
@MrBabymack put them on the track and see what happens ZR1 could only see smoke behind GTR's ass
240BHPB18CEG 1 month ago
@240BHPB18CEG zr1 destroyed gtr at nurburgring look it up 2012 zr1 vs 2012 gtr get over yourself you will never own a gtr just a fan
legendarylt1 1 month ago 2
@legendarylt1 2 seconds isnt "destroying another car" especially for a fucking wet lap vs a dry lap.
and try using punctuation...
sciullo779 1 month ago
@sciullo779 oh god the wet lap excuse dont fend for a car you never drivin or even changed the radio station in. win is a win, end of story
legendarylt1 1 month ago
@sciullo779 oh take that back 5 seconds gtr 7:24 zr1 7:19 and who cares about punctuation whatever makes you feel better and sleep at night. I own vette you own a scooter and your bitter obviously cant handle a opinion. Nissan dosnt even know you yet you rep it like your in the armed forces get a life1... PUNCTUATION LOL THATS IT?
legendarylt1 1 month ago
@legendarylt1 ive been a certified gtr tech for 2 years now...
i never said the zr1 wasnt a faster car, all i want to see is a fair race at the same conditions, think about it, a wet lap over a 10+ mile course... there will be some variance between a wet and a dry lap. hell if its so negligible lets race the zr1 on a wet track and see how it does.
and even if i could afford a vette, i wouldnt buy one, why you ask, because ive never seen someone under 40 driving one...
sciullo779 1 month ago
@sciullo779 thats not what your mom said. Second im sure the size of an egine dosnt determone penis size. I have not yet to see a 8,000hp import. saecond I own two imports. also me owning a corvette is better than what you own and worth more than the basement you live in kid. WTF!! milfs are sexy what are you seventeen?
legendarylt1 1 month ago
@legendarylt1 show me a dyno of an 8000 hp car...
and i prefer to pick up girls my own age... and again, with the assumptions, you dont know what i drive or where i live so how can you make assumptions about me?
you might think your better because you own a corvette, but the truth is, what you drive and how much you make etc have no bearing on whos better then who.
sciullo779 1 month ago
@sciullo779 "and even if i could afford a vette, i wouldnt buy one, why you ask, because ive never seen someone under 40 driving one..."
My first Vette was an '02 C5 Z06. I was 25.
FraAngelico729 1 month ago
@FraAngelico729 okay? thats 1 person, whats the average age of a corvette owner?
then again who knows what the targeted demographic for the GTR, we delivered one to a 22 year old and one to a 68 year old with quite a few in between
sciullo779 1 month ago
@legendarylt1 and this is why nobody likes the muscle guys, they have this superiority complex that makes them think they are the best just because they have a car with a v8 or a $50k car etc. just learn to enjoy everything and stop talking out of your ass. oh, and i wouldnt brag about you owning a corvette, we know your lacking a bit down there, and need some way to attempt to pick up milfs
sciullo779 1 month ago
@legendarylt1 oh by the way its SIX SECONDS!! look it up tool
legendarylt1 1 month ago
@240BHPB18CEG Dude...
Nürburgring Nordschleife lap times (as of 20 Jan 2012)
ZR1........7min 19sec
Z06........7min 22sec
GT-R........7min 24sec
As someone, wise told me...chill out. Both awesome cars. Just enjoy the car you like and give credit where it's due.
FraAngelico729 1 month ago
Even if the GT-R losses, people still like to match it up with any car to race. GT-R Pride!
clintb92 1 month ago
if they started in the seconde gear, the z06 would eat the gt-r
nou790 1 month ago
why gtr always off the line everytime...gets out to a lead always first..maybe that computer shit launch control is not such a bad thing..shit i like those results..put it on the fkn vette then wil c
musvlehead 1 month ago
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FraAngelico729 1 month ago 5
@FraAngelico729 look at the start of the vid an its THE GTR that is down on hp not the zo6.the fact of the matter is my friend, the GTR for the money is a supercar eater.
Tpviper 1 month ago
@Tpviper Considering that both cars ring in at under $100k and run door-to-door with exotics, I guess that puts them in the same class.
FraAngelico729 1 month ago 6
@FraAngelico729 um did you see what you said, if you watch it again the z06 has 70hp MORE not less than the GT-R... and plus its a Lingenfelter Z06 at that, all they do is cram as much hp as they can. dont be a sore loser. your the only corvette ill ever respect is the ZR1.
StupidKieleVideos 1 month ago
@FraAngelico729 Z06 is the one with 70HP headstart idiot.
THExKINGxKINGx 1 month ago
@FraAngelico729 It doesn't matter if you win by an inch or a mile winning's winning.
Lockersinviter 1 month ago
@FraAngelico729 the corvette has higher tourque probably so if they went from a 60 roll he would have ate him up and imma tellin the truth about it and im a huge N.I.S.M.O fan
MultiLinkz 1 month ago
@FraAngelico729 that was the 09 gtr now do it with the 2012 and im sorry but your favorite little corvette would be put to shame. in every single situation the gtr is better then the vet even in drag. sorry but americans dont make the best drag cars anymore and they most definitely make the worst track cars. oh yeah dip shit and the vet is has the 70 more hp making it even more embarrassing on the vets part.
mrincredible26 1 month ago
@mrincredible26 "they most definitely make the worst track cars."
Nürburgring Nordschleife lap times (as of 20 Jan 2012)
ZR1........7min 19sec
Z06........7min 22sec
GT-R........7min 24sec
You were saying?
FraAngelico729 1 month ago
@FraAngelico729 everyone brings these times up and i dont know why... yes its a confirmed lap time, but your comparing a wet lap and a dry lap...
sciullo779 1 month ago
@sciullo779 oh by the way you can google it, wiki it, and you tube gtr 7:21 is a lie its posted every!!! It seems theres people out there who will make numbers up over a car they will never own.
legendarylt1 1 month ago
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@sciullo779 "your comparing a wet lap and a dry lap..."
I've seen the track surface in that video. Frankly, there's more water in my toilet than there was on the track that day.
FraAngelico729 1 month ago
@FraAngelico729 You got it wrong mate, It's the Vette that has 70hp more and weights about 0.5 tonne less. Of course once both cars are moving the Vette will pull on the GTR because the GTR has a bit of belly on it but you got to admit for a 2 tonne car with only 300hp/tonne the GTR did a very good job.
Imagine this same race but if it was the other way round with the HP the results would be even better for the GTR.
In my eyes GTR is the superior car. GO NISSAN!!!!!!
namybot 1 month ago
@namybot "You got it wrong mate, It's the Vette that has 70hp more and weights about 0.5 tonne less."
You're about the 1,000th person who told me that. I saw later that I got it wrong, but I just didn't really care. Anyhoo, you're right about the GT-R performing so well for such a heavy car . Kazutoshi Mizuno (chief engineer) described how the car was designed with extra weight to keep it planted through the corners. Interesting approach and it apparently works well.
FraAngelico729 1 month ago
@namybot "Imagine this same race but if it was the other way round with the HP the results would be even better for the GTR."
Well, that's fairly obvious, isn't it?
FraAngelico729 1 month ago
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FraAngelico729 1 month ago
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@namybot "In my eyes GTR is the superior car."
It is an amazing performer, but I'm critical because of the initial problems. How does Nissan explain the launch control/warranty voiding debacle? And what was with the transmission shredding? The GT-R was touted as an engineering marvel, but problems like that don't exactly shout 'superior engineering'. Granted, they've solved these problems, but the GT-R has a long history. These problems never should have arisen in the first place.
FraAngelico729 1 month ago 3
@namybot "In my eyes GTR is the superior car."
I'm opting for the Vette. She matches (sometimes beats) the exotics affordably and RELIABLY and she does it without OHV's, variable timing, and coilovers. How does a modern car with pushrods and leaf springs set lap records and win endurance races? World-class engineering my friend. THAT'S why I love the Vette. She kicks ass and defies conventional wisdom. My only criticism is the 'plasticky' interior, but that's aesthetic, not functional.
FraAngelico729 1 month ago 2
@FraAngelico729 the corvette has a double wishbone suspension.....
sciullo779 1 month ago
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@sciullo779 "the corvette has a double wishbone suspension....."
Yes it does. And let me tell you about that double wishbone set up. It's lighter, less complex, and less expensive than coilovers and provides the same anti-roll and dampening performance with less unsprung weight. All this without sacrificing ride quality. It's also mated to Delphi's Magnetic Selective Ride Control magnetorheological active handling suspension first pioneered by Cadillac and Corvette back in 2003.
FraAngelico729 1 month ago 2
@FraAngelico729 you are correct! magnetic suspension with leaf springs, world war 2 push rod tank engine that some how gets the job done very impressive!!
legendarylt1 1 month ago 2
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@legendarylt1 "you are correct! magnetic suspension with leaf springs, world war 2 push rod tank engine that some how gets the job done very impressive!!"
Fitting you should mention WWII. The Corvette was named after the fast and maneuverable naval attack ships that, as it happens, blew Germany, Italy, and Japan out of the water and back to their home ports. Just an interesting bit of history. Cheers.
FraAngelico729 1 month ago 2
@FraAngelico729 The Corvette has been known as a really good "track" performer. It ends there.
Everybody knows how awful Corvettes are to drive casually, and the cheep interior will take you right back to the 80s. When plastic was seen as acceptable and nobody cared. Travel across Europe for 10hrs in a Corvette and pray there's a doctor that can save your balls.
There is a lot more to be done even on a ZR1 before it's anywhere close to European standers. Track performance doesn't cut it.
namybot 1 month ago
@namybot "Travel across Europe for 10hrs in a Corvette and pray there's a doctor that can save your balls."
I traveled across the US several times in an '86 Vette in perfect comfort. The latest generation is far more refined, so I'll have to dismiss this as your own biased and factless opinion. In fact, the C5 and C6 have been universally praised by the automotive press in the US, Europe, AND Japan as easy to drive as any econo-sedan. You'll forgive me for taking their word over yours.
FraAngelico729 1 month ago 2
@namybot "There is a lot more to be done even on a ZR1 before it's anywhere close to European standers."
Such as? Could it be the 51/49 front/rear weight distribution? How about the hydroformed aluminum spaceframe and magnesium alloy subframe/engine cradle? The carbon fiber body, perhaps? Maybe the hypereutectic silicon-aluminum alloy pistons and forged titanium connecting rods? Possibly the all-aluminum engine hand-built in GM's clean room in Wixom, Michigan? Should I keep going?
FraAngelico729 1 month ago 2
@FraAngelico729 What are you talking about, Z06 or ZR1?
There is many Journalists that have also said Corvettes are the most horrible cars they have driven.
European standers. Take 458.
4.5L (270 cu in) V8 NA producing 560hp@9000rpm/400ft-lb@6000rpm/80%Tq@3200rpm with DFI
Making it engine of the year 2011 and producing more power per liter than any other production car.
7speed D/C box
Double wishbone@front and multi-link set-up@rear.
E-Diff/F1TCS Improve performace by massive 32%.
52%@rear
namybot 1 month ago
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@namybot "What are you talking about, Z06 or ZR1?"
I'm talking about every trim level of Corvette since 1997 with the introduction of the C5. Gone away is the flexible chassis and the squeaks and rattles that went with it.
The 458 happens to be my favorite current model Ferrari because it's an outstanding car. Unlike you, I'm willing to give credit where it's due.
BTW, the word you're looking for is 'standards', not 'standers'. You don't pick up on subtlety very quickly, do you?
FraAngelico729 1 month ago
@FraAngelico729 So, it's OK for you to talk about GT racing because you want to and it suits you but because i want to mention LMP it's nonsense because it proves you wrong. Yeah, nice one mate. Jog on.
"Why do i know more about European racing than you"
Evidently you have proven your depth of knowledge in the racing world all from the view of Chevrolet factory roof. Which by the way you couldn't see much, which is referring to you knowing jack shit.
You don't know me.
namybot 1 month ago
@namybot "You obviously haven't listen to a single word i have said"
Yeah, i read what you wrote but seem as there is no verbal convo I find it particularly hard to listen to text . You're American if people don't agree with you they are wrong, I too have seen it all before. American arrogance is the best in the world. Seem as its the only thing you lot will be best at, cherish it.
namybot 1 month ago
@namybot "Considering that this is an aesthetic rather than functional concern, it's actually pretty easy to overlook"
So because you want to overlook it means it's OK.
Wait, we are talking about Street cars now. If we are not then i would agree, but we are. Plastic on cars of this level is way in the past. These days Journalist will judge a car on every single aspect and it not just about how fast a car can go especially when the cars are sold to the public, everything has to be right.
namybot 1 month ago
@namybot
At the end of the day.
Is the Corvette a good machine? YES
Is the Corvette a good car? It's up to you.
That is where personal taste comes in, there is always going to be people with different views. You need to learn to live with that.
I personally like the Corvette, I just like other cars much more.
Is anything wrong with that? NO
namybot 1 month ago
@namybot "That is where personal taste comes in, there is always going to be people with different views. You need to learn to live with that."
I don't really care who loves/hates the Vette or why. I'm simply trying to educate you on the facts, or at least call you out on why you TRULY don't like the car (politics and prejudice). If you jst don't like it, fine. Just don't try to BS everyone by saying untrue things about it, or you'll be called on it. Just like I'm doing.
FraAngelico729 1 month ago
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@FraAngelico729 " But don't be surprised when someone better educated calls you out on your trail of bullshit"
If you could see my face right now after reading that, you'd probably want to slap me. Because me and my mates are laughing our tits off.
I wouldn't comment on that stupid remark you made, even if i got paid for it.
namybot 1 month ago
@namybot Funny shit is, you are so brain washed about the Vette is so great and mighty that you've forgotten about the video your commenting on.
You know the less powered, two tonne car killing the shit out a vette.
namybot 1 month ago
@namybot "Every review I've read in English, German, French, and Spanish (necessity for living and working in Europe for 6 years)"
You make your self sound so educated, smart and mature. You are a real man, a devoted enthusiast and a mountain of information.
And to think you'd be talking to me (a dip-shit) having a pathetic argument on Youtube. I know, IT SOUNDS SILLY DOESN'T IT.
You are a charlatan, go away.
Grow up.
namybot 1 month ago
@namybot "you'd be talking to me (a dip-shit) having a pathetic argument on Youtube."
That's the most sensible thing you've said throughout this entire discussion.
FraAngelico729 1 month ago
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@FraAngelico729 " "you'd be talking to me (a dip-shit) having a pathetic argument on Youtube."
Seem you're so stupid you can't even sense the sarcastic tone this comment had. It's a good job I'm not taking you seriously, because you are the biggest joke I've come across yet.
namybot 1 month ago
@namybot You're under the mistaken impression that I think the Vette is the best car in the world. I don't and I challenge you to show where I ever said that. I know that's not true, but I do know that she's competitive with the best out there. You, on the other, want to go on believing that American cars are inferior and you lash out in resentment when you see yankee cars competing on the world stage and being taken seriously. That will make things very difficult for you. Your choice.
FraAngelico729 1 month ago
@namybot I also hope you've learned something about arguing an untenable position. As you said, I am educated. The facts are on my side because I learn them beforehand. Open your mind, abandon ignorance and prejudice, and you will be better informed and able to appreciate what you couln't before. You called me the charlatan and told me to 'grow up'. Who between us was equipped with the facts? Who between was throwing the tantrum? Who between us was calling names? That should be obvious.
FraAngelico729 1 month ago
@namybot The video shows how AWD can give you the edge off the line. It also shows how the Vette devoured the GT-R's lead and lost by inches rather than car lengths. I give full marks to the GT-R. This allows me to appreciate hot cars from all over the world. You, on the other hand, can't overcome your own prejudice and appreciate the Vette's performance. The GT-R driver here probably could when he looked out to his left. Too bad for you.
FraAngelico729 1 month ago
@FraAngelico729 You said I don't post facts.
You obviously ignored the bit when i killed you off with the 458 engine Performance.
namybot 1 month ago
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@namybot "You obviously ignored the bit when i killed you off with the 458 engine Performance."
No. While that WAS the only factual thing you said all this time, I never said the Ferrari is a POS. Again, unlike you, I can appreciate excellent cars regardless of where they're from, and the 458 happens to be among my fave Ferraris. By contrast, you claimed the Vette was lacking in quality (again wanting in facts) and I proved otherwise. You were in over your head from the start.
FraAngelico729 1 month ago
@namybot "I personally like the Corvette,"
No you don't. That's obvious. And you don't have to. But spewing resentment and ignorance just makes you look like a child.
"I just like other cars much more. Is anything wrong with that? NO"
Absolutely not. But don't be surprised when someone better educated calls you out on your trail of bullshit.
FraAngelico729 1 month ago
@namybot "Journalist will judge a car on every single aspect and it not just about how fast a car can go especially when the cars are sold to the public, everything has to be right."
Every review I've read in English, German, French, and Spanish (necessity for living and working in Europe for 6 years) on the Vette was overwhelmingly positive in terms of performance, engineering, and refinement. The ONLY thing they could nitpick was the plastic bits. Beyond that...simply high praise.
FraAngelico729 1 month ago
@namybot "American arrogance is the best in the world. Seem as its the only thing you lot will be best at, cherish it."
NOW we come to it! You just revealed what I've known all along. It's simply KILLING you inside to see an American made car competing with the world in performance, style, engineering, and quality. What makes it even worse is that people outside the US are taking the Vette seriously. All I can say is you're in for a very difficult time if you maintain this resentment.
FraAngelico729 1 month ago
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@FraAngelico729 "NOW we come to it! You just revealed what I've known all along. It's simply KILLING you inside to see an American made car competing with the world in performance, style, engineering, and quality"
As much performance as a Bugatti.
As much style as a Ferrari
As much engineering as a Porsche
As much quality as a Rolls Royce.
Yeah, dream on mate.
namybot 1 month ago
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namybot 1 month ago
@namybot "As much performance as a Bugatti. As much style as a Ferrari. As much engineering as a Porsche. As much quality as a Rolls Royce."
Wow. So basically you're saying the Vette is competitive with four of the most prestigious marques in the world. Nice to see you're finally coming around! LMAO! XD
FraAngelico729 1 month ago
@FraAngelico729 Hahaha, What i was saying is that other companies do make better cars than Chevy. You knew exactly what i was saying, I should of put a ? on the end of those sentences.
Yes, the Corvette is a fast and cheep answer but you seriously don't believe it's the best car in the world?
Other manufactures are making much better cars but you got to pay for that perfection. I fully understand the Corvette but at the moment other manufactures are engineering far higher quality cars.
namybot 1 month ago
@namybot Look at it this way, a Lotus is faster than a Rolls Royce so does that make the Lotus better?
Can a Corvette complete a rally stage as fast as a Subaru WRX or an Mitsubishi Evo? NO.
Can a Corvette hit top speed matching Koenigsegg, Bugatti, SSC? NO
Can a Corvette get as much MPG as a Kia Rio or a VW Lupo? NO
Can a Corvette carry as much style as a Ferrari or a Lamborghini? NO
Can a Corvette move with as much class as a Rolls Royce or maybach? NO
Every car has its perks
namybot 1 month ago
@namybot Dude, you lost. Let it go. :D
FraAngelico729 1 month ago
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namybot 1 month ago
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@FraAngelico729 "Dude, you lost. Let it go"
So i guess you got nothing intelligent to say or anything that would prove my point to nothing. I have proven my point correct. I'm not going to say "you lost" because I'm more mature than that.
So what's up, have I made a point you can't argue with because you know I'm right. You full well know that cars will never be equal with any other at any point. My point was from the start was... Corvette is a good car but there's better.
LIVE WITH IT.
namybot 1 month ago
@namybot "I have proven my point correct."
What point would that be, exactly? Please tell me because you haven't made any sense at all.
"I'm not going to say 'you lost' because I'm more mature than that."
You can say that with a straight face after that petulant little tantrum and the name-calling? I guess ignorance really IS bliss!
FraAngelico729 1 month ago 2
@namybot "So what's up, have I made a point you can't argue with because you know I'm right."
I'm still at a loss. What point?
"You full well know that cars will never be equal with any other at any point. My point was from the start was... Corvette is a good car but there's better."
You went off on some logic-starved tangent comparing the Vette to a Rolls Royce. I never made that comparison- you did. That's where this silly little flame way went from boring to outright strange.
FraAngelico729 1 month ago 2
@namybot OK, let me try to help you understand where you went wrong. (Can't believe I'm doing this.)
*SIGH* OK. No, the Vette won't compete with Rolls Royce in luxury (a claim I never made to begin with). Neither will Ferrari, Porsche, or GT-R. But they'll all run CIRCLES around it in performance, an area in which the Vette is HIGHLY competitive. Corvette is also as reliable as any Benz, Porsche, or BMW (Remember that catastrophic engine failure debacle back in 2009? BMW owners do!)
FraAngelico729 1 month ago 2
@namybot You also compared the Vette to a Bugatti Veyron. Strange. $100,000 vs. $1,000,000, but OK. The Veyron hits 60 in the 2's, 1/4 in the 10's (barely 1 second faster than Z06/ZR1), and tops out past 260mph. Impressive, but not surprising. I could follow this comparo by saying it takes 16 cylinders, 4 turbos, 1,000hp, and $1mil to beat the Vette. It's also important to note that the Veyron's been roundly criticized for its harsh ride. Not what you'd reasonably expect for $1million.
FraAngelico729 1 month ago 2
@namybot So really, I don't have to do anything to demonstrate how deficient your arguments have been. You've been doing that yourself this whole time. All I've been doing is addressing your nonsense with facts. I've just been having a little fun. Which I guess is kinda mean on my part, considering you're out of your league with me. But, hey- it's just YouTube.
FraAngelico729 1 month ago 2
@namybot "Can a Corvette complete a rally stage as fast as a Subaru WRX or an Mitsubishi Evo? NO."
Nice try. The Vette's not a rally car, but her lap times beat both around numerous road courses. Plus, the WRX feels like a tin can.
"Can a Corvette hit top speed matching Koenigsegg, Bugatti, SSC? NO"
Her handling matches or beats all three. There's more to performance than top speed. They've also been criticized for their harsh rides. Not something heard about the Vette since 1997.
FraAngelico729 1 month ago
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@namybot "Can a Corvette get as much MPG as a Kia Rio or a VW Lupo? NO"
WTF??? That's just lame! (LMAO) Neither do Ferraris or GT-Rs. A better question is how 7.0 liter V8 gets a ULEV rating.
"Can a Corvette carry as much style as a Ferrari or a Lamborghini? NO"
Style is subjective. Depends on who you ask. For instance, I personally find that while there's no arguing their performance, the Veryon and R35 are ugly as ass (R34 and 370Z are GORGEOUS). So arguing style is pointless.
FraAngelico729 1 month ago
@namybot "Yes, the Corvette is a fast and cheep answer but you seriously don't believe it's the best car in the world?"
No I don't. If that's your understanding, I'd recommend remedial reading comprehension. All I've been saying is that she's competitive. I also countered your outright dismissal with facts. Nor did I attempt to tear down any other cars to make the Vette look good. I don't need to. That's why she's such a fantastic car. Something you can't seem to accept.
FraAngelico729 1 month ago 2
@namybot "As much performance as a Bugatti."
As long as we're on the Veyron's performance (YOU brought it up- not me), it's interesting to note the Bugatti ran the Nordschleife in 7:40, putting it WAY behind the GT-R, Z06, ZR1, 458, MC12, 911 GT2 RS... you get the idea. Does that make all these cars 'better' (whatever the hell that's supposed to mean) than the Veyron? Can you see how your arguments don't apply? *SIGH* I was right. You're not very good at this.
FraAngelico729 1 month ago
@FraAngelico729
You lost, let it go.
I was trying to make you see other cars have different qualities and now you're trying to say the Corvette can beat every single car on the planet. You are a fool. you're not very good at this are you?
"Nice try. The Vette's not a rally car"
So because a Vettes not a rally car, you don't give a shit. Because other cars are stronger in other areas you'll just ignore it. Thanks for revealing what I have known all along, YOU'RE ARROGANT AND NOW IGNORANT
namybot 4 weeks ago
@namybot "Her handling matches or beats all three. There's more to performance than top speed"
Oh i get it, So because other cars are better than a Vette at top speed, that also doesn't matter because she handles better. Yet again, nice one mate.
"They've also been criticized for their harsh rides. Not something heard about the Vette since 1997"
I seem to remember a episode of top gear where Clarkson drove a ZO6 and said the ride was dam right awful. But I'm forgetting top gear is for Idiots?
namybot 4 weeks ago
@namybot "$100,000 vs. $1,000,000"
Price is nothing to do with performance, you mongrel.
1962 250GTO= $26mill
1964 Shelby Daytona Coupe=$8mill
1956 Aston Martin DBR1= $8mill
1957 250TR=$16mill
1966 Ford GT40=$10mill
So tell me jack-ass is price relevant to a cars performance?
The Bugatti Veyron is a rolling hotel, way better than any car Chevy will make. And thats why you pay for that exclusiveness seem as they was only 40 sold ever yearYou're obviously so far up Chevy arse you'll disagree.
namybot 4 weeks ago
@namybot "That's just lame! (LMAO) Neither do Ferraris or GT-Rs. A better question is how 7.0 liter V8 gets a ULEV rating"
A Corvette ZR1 will get on Average about 14/20 MPG depending on how you drive. That is a Super charged 6.2L V8.
The Bugatti Veyron is a car with 16 cylinders and 4 turbos still manages to get 14MPG and was getting 8/10MPG at 260mph.
You have lost, go away, run away.
namybot 4 weeks ago
@namybot I have time after time shredded your views to shit.
You have tried your hardest to win but yet I have prevailed.
I have a far more superior mind, you should message me if you want some more education. I would be happy to help you with anything you're stuck with.
namybot 4 weeks ago
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@namybot "You have tried your hardest to win but yet I have prevailed."
I'm not trying to win. I don't need to. You've simply lost because you failed to argue something you couldn't. Specifically, that the Vette is an unmitigated POS. I simply provided facts to the contrary. This has proven frustrating for you. That's evident in your petulant tone. Kinda funny to watch, really.
FraAngelico729 4 weeks ago
@namybot "I'm still at a loss. What point"
*SIGH*, **SIGH**. OK, how can i make this more clear to a retard.
From the start my point has been. ZR1 is a good car (I have said this numerous times) but on this planet in the year 2012 there is better cars you could spend your money on.
I know for the money, it's hard to beat but when money is no limit like for most the people that buy these cars, there is much better options.
Do you know there is better cars on this planet? yes or no.
namybot 4 weeks ago
@namybot This is hilarious. For someone who thinks I'm so ignorant and stupid, you sure go out of your way to sound like me. Awesome. Ironically, you and I seem to be arguing the same point from opposite ends. You're saying that there are cars that outclass the Vette in some areas while conceding in others. I'm saying the same from the Vette's perspective. However, I'm being more circumspect, while you've never acknowledged any of the Vette's quality (despite your claims).
FraAngelico729 4 weeks ago
@FraAngelico729 You still haven't answered my very, very simple question. What, you want me to make it a very,very,very simple question.
Do... you... know... there... is... better... car... than... the... ZR1? Yes or No.
Have the words... The Corvette is shit, ever leave my keyboard?
So why do you keep saying I tear down the ZR1?
I know the Corvette is a great car "for the money", hell, I'd adore to drive one but there is much better engineered cars
Why do i find this easier to say dan u.
namybot 4 weeks ago
@namybot I'm not sure but maybe you're too attached to the Corvette series. That's why I find it easier to say than you.
Maybe If Chevy make a complete piece of shit Corvette you'd still probably love it.
BTW I never said the LS9 V8 is a POS.
But If you look at a 458 it has 560hp and 400ft-lbs from a V8 with out the aid of Forced Induction. That is a massive achievement.
And that's what I mean about other cars being better in areas.
Just accept it.
namybot 4 weeks ago
@namybot "I'm not sure but maybe you're too attached to the Corvette series. That's why I find it easier to say than you."
Not really. The Vette became a world-class contender in 1997 with the 5th generation (which I don't find particularly attractive), something GM couldn't say since 1966. All models in between, while endearing in their own way, were plagued by a flimsy chassis and an anemic engine. So your read is wrong, because you're only (vaguely) aware of this latest generation.
FraAngelico729 4 weeks ago
@namybot "But If you look at a 458 it has 560hp and 400ft-lbs from a V8 with out the aid of Forced Induction. That is a massive achievement."
It's wonderful, but not 'massive'. Virtually EVERY engine manufactured is capable of FAR more power beyond factory specs. They're simply not produced that way. Why? A.) Most customers buy these cars for what the builders produce. B.) That would alienate the tuners, and the aftermarket helps makers with HUGE sales boosts based on what they offer.
FraAngelico729 4 weeks ago
@namybot "And that's what I mean about other cars being better in areas."
You make the same mistake so many others do by assuming that this is all GM can achieve with their engines. You forget about the tuners and suppliers I mentioned before. The GM aftermarket is HUGE, and a LOT of customers buy Corvettes (for example) because they're easily tunable for ever increasing levels of performance. Maxing out performance not only drives up factory price, it leaves nothing for the tuners.
FraAngelico729 4 weeks ago
@namybot If you want an even broader picture of how good the GM engineering has become, check out how many 1,000hp+ NA LS6's and LS7's are out there. Check out the 1,000hp+ 2.2L GM I4 that John Lingenfelter (RIP) built. Sure it's turbocharged and not a small block V8, but it is yet another example of the potential of GM's engineering. I revere Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche, et al. That's beyond question. It's just time people took notice that GM is an automotive force beyond dismissal.
FraAngelico729 4 weeks ago
@FraAngelico729 Yes there is 1000hp engines from Chevy but they are not the only engines that can get up there.
Where I'm from, I could by 916hp Supra for 40k. I know the rest of the car is shit.
Also Lamborghini have UGR kit taking them right up to 1500hp.
Nissan GTR have AMS taking them to 1500hp too
namybot 4 weeks ago
@namybot "Where I'm from, I could by 916hp Supra for 40k. I know the rest of the car is shit."
So can I, but I have to disagree on the rest of the car. It's as ugly as a baboon's ass, but it's an amazing piece of performance engineering and was WAY ahead of its time.
FraAngelico729 4 weeks ago
@FraAngelico729 You see I'm the other way round. I think It looks nice, but for 1994 when it came out, they was skylines just as fast. And Honda had the NSX around that time.
I just want to mention something and I'm not being hostile about it.
"It's wonderful, but not 'massive'"
I think it is massive, to say it is the first engine of all time to have that HP and Torque with 8 cylinders, no forced induction and 4.5L of displacement.
namybot 4 weeks ago
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@namybot "I think It looks nice, but for 1994 when it came out, they was skylines just as fast. And Honda had the NSX around that time."
I absolutely LOVE the R34, especially its looks. The NSX was sexy for its time, but Honda did the car no favors when they failed ot update it during later years.
FraAngelico729 4 weeks ago
@namybot "it is the first engine of all time to have that HP and Torque with 8 cylinders, no forced induction and 4.5L of displacement."
It might be the first factory produced engine sold with those specs, but it's certainly not the first ever to hit the streets. That's my point. It's a mistake to think that factory specs represent the upper limit of ANY engine. But I have to agree that it IS an engineering masterpiece.
FraAngelico729 4 weeks ago
@namybot That's all great. So basically, when speaking of Ferrari, Porsche, GT-R, Lamborghini, etc., the Corvette is among peers in many respects. Not all, as we've pointed out (and beaten the subject to death in the process). Style is subjective, but it's not hard to find people both in and outside the US who would include this. Othwerise, in terms of performance and reliability (which can be objectively quantified), the Z06 and ZR1 are AMONG the world's best high-performance cars.
FraAngelico729 4 weeks ago
@FraAngelico729 Yes, I do agree. The Vettes are among the world best Performance cars. But there is a difference.
The Vette has a 6.0L V8 Supercharged producing 630hp and 600 torques and on top of that the ZR1 weight is very favorable. Of course Its' going to be fast, no surprise there. But if you take a look at how fast Porsche cars are with such small HP (most of the time) It really makes you appreciate a good set up car. RWDRE Is a killer set-up and Porsche have it down to a T
namybot 4 weeks ago
@namybot "Not exactly a glowing recommendation, and discounts LOTS of reviews that say nothing close"
I have also seen reviews about 10 mins ago, they said the new 2012 Z06 and the old ZR1 were very comfortable but the cheep and flimsy interior is disapointing.
I was wrong about the drive comfort ( I hold my hands up to that) BUT I'm still right about the awful interior and that needs to be sorted of for me.
namybot 4 weeks ago
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@namybot "the new 2012 Z06 and the old ZR1 were very comfortable... I was wrong about the drive comfort ( I hold my hands up to that)"
I HAVE heard nitpicks about the ride comfort, but nothing really critical. High performance cars have stiffer suspensions as it is, so nobody should expect the feel of a Bentley from say a Porsche, Ferrari, Vette, or GT-R. I probably should have specified that this is coming from a perspective in the car's class.
FraAngelico729 4 weeks ago
@namybot "the cheep and flimsy interior is disapointing...I'm still right about the awful interior and that needs to be sorted of for me."
Jay Leno said that with everything else you get, the interior shouldn't be a big deal. Hey, GM- you're making a car that starts at $50,000. I don't think a little savings on interior materials really matter at this point, guys! (LOL) I definitely agree on the interior. I don't mind shelling out a little extra for a decent interior.
FraAngelico729 4 weeks ago
@namybot I'm also not crazy about the seats. They're comfortable, but not NEARLY as supportive as those in the 4th gen. GM uses these seats in response to consumer complaints about difficulty in clearing the side bolsters. I'll admit to clipping my nuts on the sides every now and then (an experience I can't recommend), but I prefer to feel secure in the corners. The current models feel like the seats in my dad's Volvo! (LOL) XD
FraAngelico729 4 weeks ago
@namybot "take a look at how fast Porsche cars are with such small HP (most of the time) It really makes you appreciate a good set up car"
Oh, no doubt! I've fallen in love with Porsche all over again, especially since they got rid of that god-awful front end (Cayenne and Panamera shoud be next!). How they make a car so well-balanced with the engine way the hell out in the back is beyond me. Then again, it's not large and heavy, and I swear Porsche gets their engineers from Hogwarts!
FraAngelico729 4 weeks ago