The Graham Norton Show - 2009 - S6x13 Dominic West, Joan Rivers, Jedward Part 3

[eleanoraliceshields]

its always nice to see dominic. his sis tought me Maths and PE

[jamelia1111111]

I stoped reading all the crap you probably wrote after you said Beatles and Rolling stones did their music by copying americans, that sais it all, youre a typical ignorant american patheticly proud of hes country making up anything posible to not admit others are better at something, i already talked to ones like you and im bored, its like talking to the same person. Thats just sad. And stop smoking, you will die from it and you wont have who to roll with anymore.

[Quinibus]

@jamelia1111111 Smoking? You mean the guy in the picture? That's Serge Gainsbourg - the famous French songwriter. Yes, that's right, I'm a crazy American who lies about his country's music, and whose favorite musician of all time just so happens to be a Frenchman. Hmmm.

People keep telling you the same thing for a simple reason: *you're wrong!* Do me a favor. Just read the credits to the first Rolling Stones album. Read the names next to the songs. Do that for me please.

[Quinibus]

@Quinibus Do it for me, and if I'm lying about them copying American music, then there's your proof.

[jamelia1111111]

@Quinibus I dont need to, i already read a lot about pop and rock music in the ime we were talking, im not a moron to lie , the truth is the truth, thats why i read about this, and the only thing you where right about in all your comments is that pop music derives from rock and roll. I would be perfectly fine if you were right about all you said, bu you are not, Everywere i looked and read sais the same thing Pop and Rock originates in U.K, thats all i can tell you. And my favorite

[Quinibus]

@jamelia1111111 Come on, it can't hurt anything to look, now can it? If you really believe that you're right, then you have nothing to lose here. Go to Wikipedia, type in "The Rolling Stones (album)" and press enter. Then read the track list and the names next to the songs.

The Beatles debuted in '64. Elvis debuted in '54. This is simple math. Elvis Presley, Chuck Berry, Ritchie Valens, Eddie Cochran, Carl Perkins, Little Richard, Bill Haley - all before the Beatles.

[Quinibus]

@Quinibus There's also an interview between John Lennon and Tom Snyder here on YouTube: type in "John Lennon interview 1975 with Tom Snyder" - go to about minute 3 in the first part and listen very closely to what he says there.

[jamelia1111111]

@Quinibus ...univeerse, thats not whats important, there may be countries that can "copy" that style and make it better. And im not giving you another subject but arent werent brits better at rock than americans? When you say rock music you think mosly of beatles, rolling stones, queen etc etc. But anyway.

[jamelia1111111]

@Quinibus But anyway... who cares about all this when the world has Jedward.

[jamelia1111111]

@Quinibus I didnt find anyhing, but even you were right, that doesnt change the fact that every where they say the same thing: it originates in u.k. And even if lets say rock is american, wouldnt matter because its only one genre, and dont forget that jazz and blues derive from other types of music as well. And america is a new counry, so the inspiraion can only come from others, mainly Europe. Why is his so important to you anyway? And even if america invented everything in the

[Quinibus]

@jamelia1111111 People have been living in the United States for over 400 years (Jamestown - the first English settlement - was founded in 1607 - San Antonio and St. Augustine are even older). Your insistence that we are "new" is just wrong. We've been here a long, long time, we have a unique and original culture, one that has completely reshaped world culture in general, to a degree that, apparently, young people such as yourself can no longer see the lines between American ...

[Quinibus]

@Quinibus ... and non-American culture. I know you keep taking that as American chauvinism, but it's not - it's just a simple fact.

The reason why I care is simply because you specifically told me that America has no culture. That's both insulting and silly. Jazz is certainly one of the great achievements of world culture, and easily stands up next to anything else you might mention. So is sequential art, which in its modern incarnation is an essentially American development ...

[Quinibus]

@Quinibus ... But I think the thing that really annoys me the most is that you shoot your mouth off about America and Americans, despite, it would seem to me, probably not knowing any Americans, or never having been to the US. You have to understand how someone else would feel if some stranger started telling them that their country has no culture and that you hate everyone who comes from there. You can't do things like that and not expect them to be annoyed.

[jamelia1111111]

@Quinibus I never been to america no, but i dont have to go to a country to see how it is or make a general or deeper impression of its people. We do have media. And i'm sure america has its culture but europe is where most culture took place. And i dont hate americans but so many americans are way to entitled and become obnoxious because of that. And trust me, you dont know what it means to be upset of what people talk of your country and its people without knowing them, until you

[jamelia1111111]

@Quinibus are a citizen of a country like mine, i was expecting you would stop talking to me after i said im romanian thinking who gives a shit, she is a gipsy. which im not by the way. Anyway, america has done great things and so has europe or japan or others, what bothers me is when one person or one country thinks is better and superior than everyone else, and many americans think like that. I herd many dont even consider the rest of the world to exist, thats just wrong. Nobody is

[Quinibus]

@jamelia1111111 But that's my point - you can't really say you know anything about the United States if all you know about are things you've seen on television or popular culture. I hear foreigners talk about the United States all the time and they invariably have it wrong. As for all Americans thinking that they're better than everyone else - that's not really the case. There are a lot of people here (probably the majority) who think the opposite (at least in some regards) ...

[Quinibus]

@Quinibus ... The problem, I think, comes from the fact that because America is such a big country, with only two parties, in order to get elected certain politicians have to say things that they think will appeal to broad cross-sections of voters, and sometimes that takes the form of "America is the Best" talk. But that's a minority of people who think that way.

Take Sarah Palin. Sarah Palin was never a popular figure in this country (not really). Broad segments of the American ...

[Quinibus]

@Quinibus ... population despised her. But, because she's on TV, or in the news, people in Europe can easily assume "well, all Americans must be like that." Problem is, they aren't.

As for bias against Romanians, I'm a Southerner. If you're a Southerner in this country everyone assumes you're a dirty, poor, illiterate racist who is married to his sister and lives in a trailer park. I have a feeling it's not too dissimilar to the way some people must treat Romanians in Europe.

[Quinibus]

@Quinibus ... if you're a Southerner and you live in the US you generally either have to hide the fact that you're Southern to get anywhere or be taken seriously by anyone, or you have to just grow thick skin whenever anyone insults your family by calling you "inbred" or whatever. So anyhow, yeah, I know what it feels like to have people unfairly make assumptions about you based on the place you come from.

[jamelia1111111]

@Quinibus I'm not saying this to argue, but trust me, as bad as being a southerner, its not compared to being romanian, every western european country i've been i had to hide that im romanian because all people know about romanians is that we are poor stealing gypsies. And i'm sure not all americans are like i said, but i did see a lot of americans that talk and act ilke that, i mean isnt that why "the whole wrold hates america"? i put it in between paragraphs because its just a saying

[jamelia1111111]

@Quinibus It doesnt mean its true, but the ones that hate america i believe that why they hate it, or at least a big part of the reason. But its pretty normal to feel to hate someone that is or at least pretends to be better than the rest, probably thats why i herd a few people talking bad about china since they are the new hot-shots.

[jamelia1111111]

@Quinibus superior to others. I imagined if i lived in british empire times, how much i would hate them, a little counrty take over the world. Anyway

[jamelia1111111]

@Quinibus musician (band) ever are One Republic, who are american so.....

[serenevil]

Sarah Jessica Parker is insufferable.

[DominicDiasVevo]

Who knew Jedward would be still around.....

[adelllerom]

Aw Sarah is just so nice :)

[mjhart123]

Joan Rivers is a legend! love her to bits

[SoapStar4Life]

He ALWAYS plays really good music. Like the artists are amazing, but the songs are CLASSICS. I've been watching Graham episodes on youtube for the past like 4 hours, and so far each song I've heard I've LOVED and known the words to! XD

LOVE British television, honestly. SO funny XD

[flenif2247]

Joan is just telling the truth about the whole over rated MJ drama.

[CasparWilson]

I used to live in Kilburn!!!! Everyone cool comes from there....

[SnusmumrikenFan]

wow, she looks like Brian Molko's mother:)

[45kial]

sahras worse then jedward bhaha shes so stupid and awkward..

[ThatsWhatsCrazy]

Joan's right,though. You can't assume everyone was THAT upset 'bout MJ dying. It's not realistic to think so.Like she said, he was a great artist and all, but don't act like he was some sort of perfect deity. I actually respect her for saying those words. Not a lot of people ever had the guts to say that.

[kashspice]

THEY MAKE YOU LAUGH AND AT THE SAME TIME YOU FEEL REALLY BAD ABOUT LAUGHING. HATE THAT FEELING

[Victor62lagos]

Joan is a joke herself!

[crzy4euro1979]

I have never heard of Jedward before today but I think they are adorable!

[Exagerative]

It's funny Joan rivers making fun of cop show women for being too fake.. How ironic lol. She is funny though.

[XxBtsyxX]

Dominic's got a proper big hollywood smile :D x

[FabGirlJulia]

Fuck you, Joan, Michael Jackson was not what you joked about, not funny at all...very pathetic....

[AsSheLikesIt]

@FabGirlJulia how do you know?

[hayzerclon]

@FabGirlJulia I'm sure Joan is deeply offended by your criticism. NOT

[FabGirlJulia]

@hayzerclon Then FUCK YOU, Joan Rivers, one more time!

[ThePupGirl]

@FabGirlJulia I know! she has no respect :( RIP Michael Jackson </3

[MsAngelface45]

i think joan went a bit too far with the micheal jackson jokes

[florencelovme]

that half pint of lager has been seating on that table for 15 minutes lol! I bet it tasted like piss when he drunk it!

[florencelovme]

Sharlene has such a pretty face!

[elenavlada]

jedwards are realy goodlooking! how old are they??

[Larsmaa]

I love Graham's face after he told the tit joke :D

[EXECCOSMOFLIPS0]

I really liked Joan and thought she was reallii funny until she started going on bowt Michael Jackson. That was really not acceptable

[tottle91]

@EXECCOSMOFLIPS0

Yeah harsh, but thats what shes funny at. You cant pick and choose what she laughs at and what she doesn't laugh at, just accept it!

[GeorgeGeek]

I love the hold handing between Graham & Joan after an edgy joke. :)

[lovedwallflower]

who's the person singing.. charlene what?

[grechjames]

@lovedwallflower sounds like charlene spiteri

[onnabugeisha007]

@lovedwallflower Sharleen Spiteri. She was/is the lead singer of Texas.

[mattypsaidso]

@lovedwallflower spiteri! she's great!

[11jansza]

pretty sure joan has been made over and over and over and over...

[ilindah]

@11jansza and over and over and over and over and over...

[tberwick1]

A few to many guests. Dominic, Parker and Rivers is enough + music performer at the end

[faliraki20]

@jhr459 say what u want about her but at least she lived to a ripe old age!

[TheKrismak]

Who the fuck is Dominic?

[believeinengland]

@TheKrismak The Wire! Quite possibly the best drama ever to grace our TV's. And he (although not the best character) was the star.

[MVGmatt]

@believeinengland even though his attempt at a american accent was god awful i still loved his character, mainly because he always drinks jameson completely neat (just like me)

[Quinibus]

@MVGmatt Honestly, as an American, I didn't even realize that he was British. The accent fooled me at least.

[mastermaestro]

@Quinibus Are you talking about Graham? Because he's not British. He's Irish!

[Quinibus]

@mastermaestro No, Domenic West. Only knew him from the Wire. Someone said he had a bad American accent, but as an American, I was fooled.

[mastermaestro]

@Quinibus Ah okay, sorry.

[mrbusan]

@Quinibus There are a lot of british celebs that nobody knows their british especially in music because they sing in american\canadian accent. I just saw Tinnie Tempah on this show, didnt know hes british, also Tayo cruz, and Adelle

[Quinibus]

@mrbusan Yeah, what's up with that? I think they don't think they'll be as convincing as artists if they use their natural accents singing ...? I've never really understood it.

I've noticed occasionally watching Korean tv that they get a lot of that as well - pop stars incorporating English into the music, making references to America etc. Which is all fine and good, but you don't need to be American to make high quality product...

[mrbusan]

@Quinibus Asians allways copied west in many things, not only america, west in general. I think they see occident "cooler' than orient, probably because of the movies, music etc.

[jamelia1111111]

@Quinibus Lol, what high quality product did America make? funny

[Quinibus]

@jamelia1111111 Ironic that I get some anti-America comments from someone whose screen name references a British musician famous for singing in an American style of music. funny.

Rock, Jazz, Blues, R&B, hip-hop, Hollywood - need I go on?

[jamelia1111111]

@Quinibus Jamelia is my actual name if youre so curious, and the singer Jamelia sang pop music which first started in Britain. And lol, is that whats important? Then its even funnier that you make anti - british comments when the computer youre in front of every day was invented by them (Charles Babbage), and also was the world wide web, and most culture america has is from Europe, because we started pretty much everything, you people are newbies with no culture. Need i go on?

[Quinibus]

@jamelia1111111 First off: I have made no "anti-British" comments. None. I wouldn't be watching Graham Norton if I wasn't an Anglophile. Second, pop is not a genre. It' a vague catch-all for anything that isn't Classical. Jamelia is an R&B artist - R&B is an American genre of music. Thirdly, you're plainly ignorant if you think Jazz, Blues, or Rock were in anyway borrowed from Europe. They weren't. These are America's gifts to world culture. And fourthly, if you go back and ...

[Quinibus]

@Quinibus ... re-read what I originally posted I think you'll find that what I originally said was that many of the artists who trade on American "cred" don't need to - as in many of them are good enough on their own, etc. Again, not an insult. For instance, I like the Kinks because they wrote songs specifically about their experiences as British people. I enjoy that. I don't so much enjoy a British artist who sings about Miami (for instance). Sing from your own experience, etc.

[jamelia1111111]

@Quinibus Pop is not a genre? The most popular genre in the world is not even a genre? lol, and r&b is....., please stop making me laugh, And i said "culture" not music genres where borrowed, and Rock first started in Britain, and there are a lot of music styles that where born in Europe, like house, trance and many more. And please stop with Blues and Jazz, nobody cares about it, lol.

[Quinibus]

@jamelia1111111 It's clear to me now that I'm either talking to a very young person, or a person who knows absolutely nothing about music. Here's an experiment you can do on your own. As *any* musician *anywhere* where modern pop music begins. They will tell you. Pop Music begins with Blues. Period. Blues is a genre of music from the Mississippi Delta. R&B stands for Rhythm and Blues. Rock begins with Elvis. Period. He took blues music, sped it up, made it rock....

[Quinibus]

@Quinibus ... what *you* call "pop" is *my* people's church music. It's *our* culture. You don't have to take my word of it though. Go to wikipedia, type in pop music - first thing it says is that it's derived from rock. Look up rock - it's an American genre derived from blues. Again, ask a musician and they'll tell you - all of the chord progressions found in modern pop begin with the Mississippi Delta.

As for Jazz - there's more cultural and artistic legitimacy in a single ...

[Quinibus]

@Quinibus ... record by Coltrane than all of house music combined. The fact that you'd wave house music around as somehow culturally significant and then tell me no one cares about jazz proves to me your very narrow experience with music.

[jamelia1111111]

@Quinibus 1st of all you shouldn't believe anything wikipedia tells you, i can give to you a few subjects that they got really wrong, and mant people said the same thing. And even so, on wikipedia says pop music's origins is U.K. And 2nd so what if derived from rock and roll (not rock)? It's a totally new and different type of music. And youre dear wikipedia says about jazz: " It was born out of a mix of African and European music traditions".

[Quinibus]

@jamelia1111111 My knowledge isn't based on Wikipedia. My knowledge is based on a lifelong love of music. I listen to a *lot* of music, and I know a lot about it. Let me assure you, the pop music you take for granted originated in the musical traditions of the United States.

Wikipedia does *not* state that pop music originated in the UK. It says that the *term* "pop" originated in the UK. Big difference. "Pop" as a term was originally a put-down used by British people to ...

[Quinibus]

@Quinibus ... dismiss the new forms of music coming out of the United States. Classical music was good and proper, everything else was vulgar and "pop." As the end of the paragraph states, the British used the term "pop" primarily to refer to any cultural product coming out of the United States. But that's no surprise. The British have a great history of denigrating everything American while simultaneously appropriating whatever they can get their hands on.

As for Jazz, ...

[Quinibus]

@Quinibus ... it's only a "mix" of African and European in the sense that certain classical modes and theories found in Classical European music were being vigorously rearranged by the great Jazz musicians of the 20th century. But it's not European in terms of origin (at all). The old cliche about Jazz is that it's the Classical Music of the United States. That's the best way of thinking about it.

If you want a better musical database than wikipedia (and there are plenty that ...

[Quinibus]

@Quinibus ... are much better) check out AllMusic. It won't say anything I haven't said here already, I assure you. Or, follow through on what I said last time: find a really skilled musician or someone who knows a lot about music. They'll say the same things I have.

[jamelia1111111]

@Quinibus And other than that, everything else was born in Europe, even the music before blues and r&b. which im sure was an inspiration. But whatever, believe whatever you want. Its just sad that they raise you as an american child with the ideea that you are better than others. Which needless to say its not true. I would rather choose to be born in any country on earth rather than america. Well.......maybe not india lol, but i hate india with all my heart.

[Quinibus]

@jamelia1111111 This discussion began when I said that a musician doesn't need to be American to be good. You responded to me by saying that there have never been any good American musicians and that the British invented everything. I think it's pretty clear which one of us was raised to believe that they're better than everyone else, and it ain't me.

[jamelia1111111]

@Quinibus I'm not british honey, im romanian, i was raised to think we are a crappy, piece of shit people. And its no reason to continue this conversation because i could say anything i want with prove and all, and you would find a way to spin it just to make your point even if its not true, just how you span it about pop music, pathetic. Do you at least believe yourself? sad........ Dont comment back, im tired of you.

[Quinibus]

@jamelia1111111 And I've been tired of you for a long time now. All you've done is insult me and my country based on your own ignorance and vague stereotypes that you've picked up from God knows where. And when I demonstrate to you your complete ignorance of everything American you've decided to insult me by calling me a liar and insisting that you have some vague magical proof that you just don't want to show me. Don't worry, I'm not eager to continue the conversation either.

[jamelia1111111]

@Quinibus Wow! youre really something! i thought only immature teens act like that, guess i was wrong. Everything i told you was truth, you can check it on your friend wikipedia, or anywhere else, even wikipedia says pop and rock music originate in U.K.

And what was i ignorant about? I only said facts, i didnt spin it like you did with pop music. I'm "ignorant" - this coming from a man living in the nation of most ignorant people on earth.

[Quinibus]

@jamelia1111111 I thought you were done here. I'm tired of this conversation. Here's another experiment. Since British Rock for all intents and purposes begins with the Beatles and the Rolling Stones (a decade after Elvis) - why don't you look up the debut albums of both bands. Then look at the credits for the songs on their first albums. See who the songs were written by. Hey, guess what: Americans! The Beatles and the Stones started their careers by *copying* American songs...

[Quinibus]

@Quinibus "Introducing the Beatles" is about half original material, half cover versions of American tunes, and up until about the time of Rubber Soul that was the trend - half original material, half covers. If you look at the Rolling Stones' debut album, there is a total of one (ONE!) original song. The rest are covers of American blues and rock tunes. You can go through the rest of the Stones' early discography, for the first few years they did nothing but copy American tunes...

[Quinibus]

@Quinibus ... The Animals likewise - "House of the Rising Sun" is an old 19th Century American folk ballad (hence the reference to New Orleans), "Please Don't let me be Misunderstood" is an old Carol King tune originally recorded by Nina Simone.

I'm sorry but you're not going to win this one. *I know my music.* You're just plain wrong. British Rock was always a pastiche of American music (albeit a highly creative and original one). Take the Beatles for instance - their whole...

[Quinibus]

@Quinibus ...sound is essentially the introspective pop of Buddy Holly mixed with the playful rock instincts of Chuck Berry, all of which is grounded in the tight harmonies of the Everly Brothers, which itself is derived from Appalachian folk music. Which is not to denigrate the Beatles in any way - but all of the elements are essentially rearranged from the American popular music of the era.

When music historians discuss the history of Rock and Roll, they sometimes split ...

[Quinibus]

@Quinibus ... the era into a Rock era and a Rock and Roll era, and they treat the two separately. Rock, they say, is a distinct form of music, which took the earlier Rock and Roll of the 1950s and pushed it into new directions. The dividing line tends to be the British Invasion - the moment when the Beatles first reached America. Rock (as distinct from Rock and Roll) begins at that moment - so some people argue. That's not the same as saying that the Beatles invented Rock. The..

[Quinibus]

@Quinibus ... Beatles themselves wouldn't have agreed to such a ridiculous statement, given their proclivity to publicly acknowledge the influence of American musicians at every opportunity (John Lennon even released a solo album in 1975 called "Rock 'n' Roll" that consisted *only* of classic American Rock tunes).

What they say is not that the British invented rock, but that the British Invasion marks a stylistic shift in the genre. And that is what you continue to misunderstand...

[Quinibus]

@Quinibus ... Wikipedia does *not* say that British people invented Rock (and if it does, then it's plainly wrong). It says (or at the very least it *means*) that the Rock "era" (as a distinct stylistic genre, separate from Rock and Roll) begins with the British Invasion, which is itself just a copy of then existing American music (just read the credits on the original albums - it'll say exactly what I have).

There's really not more to be said here. British Rock is a copy of an ...

[Quinibus]

@Quinibus ... American form of music (as is R&B and anything else you want to call "pop"). The origins of British rock are quite literally copied from the American originals.

I don't know what else to tell you other than actually *look up the facts.* There's no debate here - this is basic stuff that *everyone knows.* And if you haven't done it yet, check out Allmusic dot com. You'll learn everything you need to know.

[jamelia1111111]

@Quinibus "troll' with anymore.

[mrhammer1777]

@TheKrismak a really respected actor whos done some fantastic work

[james1200]

Jedward are adorable! I can't wait for their incest-based gay porn debut!!

[EXECCOSMOFLIPS0]

@james1200 AHAH THATS LEGEND MATE!

[hahaha430]

i love how the criticism goes rite over their heads

[petay88]

fucking die jedwood

[MarcusBritish]

I'm amazed Janet Jackson came on this show in May 2010, just 5 months later, after the comments both Joan and Graham made. Evidently she doesn't watch the show, but I bet it made Graham feel a bit uncomfortable or a bit 2-faced. I don't like MJ, but I am surprised the BBC allowed those remarks to go out given their odd ways.

[hotnsassy84]

@MarcusBritish even though i agree with you, comediants always get away with everything. they say it's their job.

[GunjanMJFan]

@MarcusBritish But Graham makes these kinds of jokes all the time. It's just comedy, it's not supposed to be taken seriously. He was just having a bit of a laugh. I'm a huge MJ fan myself but I don't mind these jokes because I know that's all they are.. jokes.

I absolutely <33 Graham by the way. Thank you so much for uploading this!

[MarcusBritish]

@GunjanMJFan Sure, we know they're jokes - but look at the way people like

Russell Brand, Jonathan Ross (I hate both)

Frankie Boyle, and Jimmy Carr (I like both, for the sake of balance)

have all been bollocked and made to apologise by these politically correct bastards - LGBT rights, disability groups, Jewish, Muslim, anti-hate crime organisations, etc.

If I were a comedian under fire, I'd issue a public "If you don't like it, fuck off!". I'm still surprised Janet came on the show. Promotion..