You made some good points, I believe that satanism should not be a competition, It is what we are that defines us. A true satanist is not a follower that is true but sometimes it is good to have a teacher.
It makes no sense All of you judging one another and not focusing on making separate accomplishments in Satans Name and Glory. If you wish to not acknowledge Satan then continue bickering not mentioning Satan and do you think your Groups will continue do I think Satan will allow you to waste his name and time? If I were Satan I would pull the floor from beneath your feet.Here you have new pupils arriving seeking and 4 what to find bickering. Losing possibly what Satan might want .people?
@shaynasays666 Do your worst. I'm not impressed. And I don't judge, I just voice my opinion. Feel free to disagree, but don't come to my videos spouting this inane bullshit.
I just would take fellow Satanists more seriously not by what documents or diplomas you have but by proof of your works call it miracles, signs and wonders. I have my Factual testimonies of Many many gifts to prove I am in Tune with the Power of Satan and all the blessings one should accomplish if you are Real. Ive seen buildings burn, enemies sickened and filled with fear, suicide and termination everything exactly as I ask in the Name of Satan. By these things I prove I am a Satanist 100%.
@shaynasays666 You probably haven't understood a word of what I said, and it shows you lack the comprehension. And I should be impressed how? Because you say so? Not likely. Get the fuck off my channel. You add nothing. I would actually dare to say that you are an idiot. It's batshit crazy folks like you that give Satanism a bad wrap. So goodbye.
Documents mean shit moron. I cant believe this D&G like moron fights over manmade paper work! wow! let me give you a personal Diploma of Idiocy! ok! shit idiot.
@TrollTowelhead The founders of LoIS themselves did. And I said that using Lovecraft as magic(k)al inspiration isn't original, as there are plenty of people that resonate with it use it (not me, but whatever floats people's boats). Also, someone that uses Lovecraftian mythos doesn't necessarily have to use Venger's paradigm. That's up to the individual. I'm the last person that will tell someone what to do. People differ, and henceforth get tickled by different things. One size does not fit all.
@coolvibe1975 - If some church proclaimed him messiah would that change your mind? I doubt it. I'll guess you don't like messiahs, and wonder what the problem is with a self-proclaimed *anything*. One might argue that his willingness to be self-proclaimed is Satanic step. Perhaps if more people proclaimed themselves to be anointed as a god or as some kind of king of the world we'd have a better world. :) OTOH, by styling himself 'messiah', he links himself to Christianity and Judaism resolutely.
@TrollTowelhead Of course, that's up to Venger himself. But he is setting himself up to be challenged, and I did exactly that. I just voice my opinions on it (isn't that what YouTube is for?). I'm certainly not telling anyone what to do or not to do. I have some very strong philosophical disagreements with Venger, we just don't see eye to eye (see discussions in followup videos). So we agree to disagree, which is what I can live with.
@coolvibe1975 - Agreed that he set himself up to be challenged. You did that well. You also disclosed your dislike for "self-proclaimed messiahs". From a Satanist, this is not surprising, since Christians tout their chosen messiah/kristos they appropriated from Judaism, and most Satanists are anti-Christian. But my challenge to you in return is why it matters if it is a *self-proclaimed* promotional. I want to see if you agree that aspect of his claim is admirably outrageous, even supportable.
@TrollTowelhead Actually, it doesn't matter. Because I do respect Venger as a person (not as a "Messiah" or "Ipsissimus"), and because (most importantly) Venger actively seeks feedback, I oblige. And even though I think he's completely off his rocker, I still like the guy. I guess you could call that support. :)
they can call themselves whatever they like, if they don't fuck with me, I don't have to care! and about messiahs..we are all messiahs in our sort of way, only that VS built an organisation with his ideas and he has all the right to do it.
I found your video refreshingly non-confrontational or personally insulting to anyone and was glad to see that. Thanks for your contribution and for taking the time to share your point of view.
Of course way back on His first video about satanism and Xianity I said something on the lines of: "Only the light hearted are enlightened" which, is expressed here clearly, keep it up!
@TheIchor Well, I'm glad you take criticism so well, which has always been something I respected you for. As for your other points, they might end up in a new video, when I find the time and inclination for it.
Pretty cool video, man. I like your style. I've queried the whole Messiah thing with Venger myself and have found his answer to be fairly reasonable. I've never been asked to worship him and if it was gonna be that way, then I'd be out. The classification of a group of individuals with a one size fits all view is erroneous, IMO. Some will be of the type you mentioned and others will not. I don't know what to make of this rivalry to be honest. It's all a bit odd if it's just about titles.
@DarkPrismOfficial Ok, I might have been a bit harsh when I equated followers with sheep. But on the other hand, are you really a follower if you don't worship? Also, I'm curious what kind of explanation he gave you, because what I distill from Venger on youtube and his posts on SIN was "I am the Messiah, worship me". But I might have gotten the wrong idea.
The titles thing was a bit of an expansion on what I said before in other videos. It's not such a big deal.
@coolvibe1975 Basically he explained that he sees himself as a 'Way', or he represents a 'Way', on the path to Awakening via the Fourth Way, LHP, etc. Not the only way or the only 'messiah'. The term 'messiah' is clearly melodramatic and I think it's used in a partly serious and partly tongue in cheek, showbiz kind of way. It's provocative. I can see why it would be taken that way on SIN and elsewhere in an arena of Individualists.
@DarkPrismOfficial I'm uploading a new video where I somewhat rectify my "followers are sheep" comment. I see what you are getting at. Yeah, the term "Messiah" and outbursts like "I am the way!" don't sit right with me (and others).
@coolvibe1975 I can understand how it rubs people the wrong way. It put me off for a while, until I kind of saw the angle he was coming from. Naturally, it will still continue to rub some people the wrong way. ; )Look forward to checking out that video, man. : )
@coolvibe1975 In a sense, people in the CoC follow the paradigm put together by VS. Usually it seems to be a case of resonating with the core aspects. Personally, I was into Satanism and the occult since my early teens. What I found at the CoC was a previously unexplored esoteric subject, 'The Fourth Way'. That's become my main focus. It's just cool to have others to discuss it with. The Lovecraft stuff in my opinion is mainly a cool aesthetic. My focus as an individual is on self development.
@DarkPrismOfficial That's interesting. I personally do not resonate with the Fourth Way, as I'm more a chaos-type guy. I understand self development is important, because it helps with the whole self-deification aspect of things. But thanks for that insight.
@coolvibe1975 Your welcome. Chaos is fascinating, I also have an interest in that. The Fourth Way kind of found me in a way. I had no interest previously. It's been a System that has worked for me mainly for personal insight and self honesty. Each to their own, man. \m/
DP, there's a show on The Ooze, in which Zach directly addresses the catalyst for the conflict. The show was suppose to be about Satanic Movies, but in lieu of VS's recent video, the hosts wished to directly address some of the claims VS made in his own video, the first half of the show. Give it a listen, it may shed some light on the conflict between the individuals involved.
@coolvibe1975 It was an excellent posting and I wonder what COC followers will express. Out of curiosity will you do an entry to of what happened to LOIS?
@lamourlupus I might, although the circumstances around the end of LoIS were kinda vague. From what I understand it was a conflict between the founders which caused the organisation to be disbanded, but what exactly the conflict was is still a mystery to me, and I never inquired. Needless to say, I am still in contact with many that I knew from LoIS and still consider them my friends, even the founders.
Oh, and rest assured that Venger had nothing to do with the fracturing of LoIS.
Great video. The only point I would make is to question if it is the intention of Venger and the CoC to be a "Satanist" organization. If there goal is to be something else, then the standards they set for themselves are not relative to the standards sometimes set by Satanists... but that leads to why there is a competition in the first place.
@egodiabolus666 Great point. But Venger claims that the CoC *includes* Satanism, and therein lies the rub. It doesn't. Also, I would think that H.P. Lovecraft would do 5600 rpm in his coffin, considering what they are doing to the whole Lovecraftian thing. It's kinda like the L. Ron Hubbard thing, creating a religion from fiction, even though mr. Satanis has a better choice of fiction. If it were something else, I would think it's a cult of personality which Venger tries to create for himself.
Can you demonstrate that the CoC paradigm does not contain Satanism? Have you considered the success of the Church of Scientology, a religion also based on fiction? If it were just a 'Cult of Personality' how can you explain the number of people who find value in it, use it as a tool, and do not find themselves worshiping Venger Satanis?
@alisonleejones Can you demonstrate that it does? Ask better questions. Also, it might be worth seeing the video I made after this, where I correct some generalisations that I made. Furthermore, I cannot tell people what they should find value in, and nowhere did I state that. It's just my opinion, which is mine, and you are free to disagree with it.
You are presenting the argument, you've made the statement, so the burden of proof is on you. Present your argument that the paradigm does not include Satanism, and I will certainly address it with a counter argument.
I agree it is your opinion, I don't believe I posited that it wasn't.
@coolvibe1975 Where did Venger claim that the CoC includes (wholly?) Satanism, and what is it that substantiates your assertion here that it doesn't? Thanks.
You made some good points, I believe that satanism should not be a competition, It is what we are that defines us. A true satanist is not a follower that is true but sometimes it is good to have a teacher.
73happygirl 3 months ago
It makes no sense All of you judging one another and not focusing on making separate accomplishments in Satans Name and Glory. If you wish to not acknowledge Satan then continue bickering not mentioning Satan and do you think your Groups will continue do I think Satan will allow you to waste his name and time? If I were Satan I would pull the floor from beneath your feet.Here you have new pupils arriving seeking and 4 what to find bickering. Losing possibly what Satan might want .people?
shaynasays666 6 months ago
@shaynasays666 Do your worst. I'm not impressed. And I don't judge, I just voice my opinion. Feel free to disagree, but don't come to my videos spouting this inane bullshit.
coolvibe1975 6 months ago
I just would take fellow Satanists more seriously not by what documents or diplomas you have but by proof of your works call it miracles, signs and wonders. I have my Factual testimonies of Many many gifts to prove I am in Tune with the Power of Satan and all the blessings one should accomplish if you are Real. Ive seen buildings burn, enemies sickened and filled with fear, suicide and termination everything exactly as I ask in the Name of Satan. By these things I prove I am a Satanist 100%.
shaynasays666 6 months ago
@shaynasays666 You probably haven't understood a word of what I said, and it shows you lack the comprehension. And I should be impressed how? Because you say so? Not likely. Get the fuck off my channel. You add nothing. I would actually dare to say that you are an idiot. It's batshit crazy folks like you that give Satanism a bad wrap. So goodbye.
coolvibe1975 6 months ago
Documents mean shit moron. I cant believe this D&G like moron fights over manmade paper work! wow! let me give you a personal Diploma of Idiocy! ok! shit idiot.
shaynasays666 6 months ago
@shaynasays666 Oh, so you disagree. That's fine. The namecalling is a bit uncalled for though. But thanks for your input, albeit of marginal value.
coolvibe1975 6 months ago
hm...interesting......
TheEmoElmoGirl15 6 months ago
LOL ! Love it .
satanicinternational 8 months ago
@satanicinternational
As do I, brother.
TheIchor 6 months ago
Who at LoIS evaluated you and bestowed the title unto you based on merit?
Who else created a religous or mystical org based on Lovecraft?
TrollTowelhead 9 months ago
@TrollTowelhead The founders of LoIS themselves did. And I said that using Lovecraft as magic(k)al inspiration isn't original, as there are plenty of people that resonate with it use it (not me, but whatever floats people's boats). Also, someone that uses Lovecraftian mythos doesn't necessarily have to use Venger's paradigm. That's up to the individual. I'm the last person that will tell someone what to do. People differ, and henceforth get tickled by different things. One size does not fit all.
coolvibe1975 6 months ago
@coolvibe1975 - If some church proclaimed him messiah would that change your mind? I doubt it. I'll guess you don't like messiahs, and wonder what the problem is with a self-proclaimed *anything*. One might argue that his willingness to be self-proclaimed is Satanic step. Perhaps if more people proclaimed themselves to be anointed as a god or as some kind of king of the world we'd have a better world. :) OTOH, by styling himself 'messiah', he links himself to Christianity and Judaism resolutely.
TrollTowelhead 5 months ago
@TrollTowelhead Of course, that's up to Venger himself. But he is setting himself up to be challenged, and I did exactly that. I just voice my opinions on it (isn't that what YouTube is for?). I'm certainly not telling anyone what to do or not to do. I have some very strong philosophical disagreements with Venger, we just don't see eye to eye (see discussions in followup videos). So we agree to disagree, which is what I can live with.
coolvibe1975 5 months ago
@coolvibe1975 - Agreed that he set himself up to be challenged. You did that well. You also disclosed your dislike for "self-proclaimed messiahs". From a Satanist, this is not surprising, since Christians tout their chosen messiah/kristos they appropriated from Judaism, and most Satanists are anti-Christian. But my challenge to you in return is why it matters if it is a *self-proclaimed* promotional. I want to see if you agree that aspect of his claim is admirably outrageous, even supportable.
TrollTowelhead 5 months ago
@TrollTowelhead Actually, it doesn't matter. Because I do respect Venger as a person (not as a "Messiah" or "Ipsissimus"), and because (most importantly) Venger actively seeks feedback, I oblige. And even though I think he's completely off his rocker, I still like the guy. I guess you could call that support. :)
coolvibe1975 5 months ago
Comment removed
TrollTowelhead 5 months ago
they can call themselves whatever they like, if they don't fuck with me, I don't have to care! and about messiahs..we are all messiahs in our sort of way, only that VS built an organisation with his ideas and he has all the right to do it.
ONA5252 10 months ago 2
@ONA5252 Oh, I am not disputing that. People can do whatever they want.
coolvibe1975 10 months ago
@coolvibe1975 exactly! do what thou wilt...face the consequences!
ONA5252 10 months ago
@ONA5252 And that I do. I set out to create a discussion, and I did.
coolvibe1975 10 months ago
@coolvibe1975 and it was a great one..you put it very professionally!
ONA5252 10 months ago
I found your video refreshingly non-confrontational or personally insulting to anyone and was glad to see that. Thanks for your contribution and for taking the time to share your point of view.
Primogen1 10 months ago
@Primogen1 Let me clarify one point...your video was NOT personally insulting to anyone...I appreciate that.
Primogen1 10 months ago
Of course way back on His first video about satanism and Xianity I said something on the lines of: "Only the light hearted are enlightened" which, is expressed here clearly, keep it up!
niza310 10 months ago
What about "Messiah-capable"? Would that be more palatable?
You're correct, if I see something that's mildly successful, then I usually try it myself to see if I can make it better.
As for sense of humor... how many raspberry cheesecakes have you eaten today, brother?
I'm leading a prison break. If other prisoners follow me to escape, then are they not also outsiders? Is that not adversarial and Satanic?
No retaliation. Valid, constructive criticism shall always be well received.
VS
TheIchor 10 months ago
@TheIchor Well, I'm glad you take criticism so well, which has always been something I respected you for. As for your other points, they might end up in a new video, when I find the time and inclination for it.
coolvibe1975 10 months ago
Pretty cool video, man. I like your style. I've queried the whole Messiah thing with Venger myself and have found his answer to be fairly reasonable. I've never been asked to worship him and if it was gonna be that way, then I'd be out. The classification of a group of individuals with a one size fits all view is erroneous, IMO. Some will be of the type you mentioned and others will not. I don't know what to make of this rivalry to be honest. It's all a bit odd if it's just about titles.
DarkPrismOfficial 10 months ago
@DarkPrismOfficial Ok, I might have been a bit harsh when I equated followers with sheep. But on the other hand, are you really a follower if you don't worship? Also, I'm curious what kind of explanation he gave you, because what I distill from Venger on youtube and his posts on SIN was "I am the Messiah, worship me". But I might have gotten the wrong idea.
The titles thing was a bit of an expansion on what I said before in other videos. It's not such a big deal.
Glad you like my ramblings. :)
coolvibe1975 10 months ago
@coolvibe1975 Basically he explained that he sees himself as a 'Way', or he represents a 'Way', on the path to Awakening via the Fourth Way, LHP, etc. Not the only way or the only 'messiah'. The term 'messiah' is clearly melodramatic and I think it's used in a partly serious and partly tongue in cheek, showbiz kind of way. It's provocative. I can see why it would be taken that way on SIN and elsewhere in an arena of Individualists.
DarkPrismOfficial 10 months ago
@DarkPrismOfficial I'm uploading a new video where I somewhat rectify my "followers are sheep" comment. I see what you are getting at. Yeah, the term "Messiah" and outbursts like "I am the way!" don't sit right with me (and others).
coolvibe1975 10 months ago
@coolvibe1975 I can understand how it rubs people the wrong way. It put me off for a while, until I kind of saw the angle he was coming from. Naturally, it will still continue to rub some people the wrong way. ; )Look forward to checking out that video, man. : )
DarkPrismOfficial 10 months ago
@coolvibe1975 In a sense, people in the CoC follow the paradigm put together by VS. Usually it seems to be a case of resonating with the core aspects. Personally, I was into Satanism and the occult since my early teens. What I found at the CoC was a previously unexplored esoteric subject, 'The Fourth Way'. That's become my main focus. It's just cool to have others to discuss it with. The Lovecraft stuff in my opinion is mainly a cool aesthetic. My focus as an individual is on self development.
DarkPrismOfficial 10 months ago
@DarkPrismOfficial That's interesting. I personally do not resonate with the Fourth Way, as I'm more a chaos-type guy. I understand self development is important, because it helps with the whole self-deification aspect of things. But thanks for that insight.
coolvibe1975 10 months ago
@coolvibe1975 Your welcome. Chaos is fascinating, I also have an interest in that. The Fourth Way kind of found me in a way. I had no interest previously. It's been a System that has worked for me mainly for personal insight and self honesty. Each to their own, man. \m/
DarkPrismOfficial 10 months ago
@DarkPrismOfficial
DP, there's a show on The Ooze, in which Zach directly addresses the catalyst for the conflict. The show was suppose to be about Satanic Movies, but in lieu of VS's recent video, the hosts wished to directly address some of the claims VS made in his own video, the first half of the show. Give it a listen, it may shed some light on the conflict between the individuals involved.
alisonleejones 10 months ago
@alisonleejones Thanks Alison. I will have to have a listen.
DarkPrismOfficial 10 months ago
I am wondering if a possibility is that satanists are being an individual with a sense of humor and not follow any group.
lamourlupus 10 months ago
@lamourlupus Up to now, the comments have been positive. But just wait until the Contingent of Cthulhu arrives to give me some "grief".
coolvibe1975 10 months ago
@coolvibe1975 It was an excellent posting and I wonder what COC followers will express. Out of curiosity will you do an entry to of what happened to LOIS?
lamourlupus 10 months ago
@lamourlupus I might, although the circumstances around the end of LoIS were kinda vague. From what I understand it was a conflict between the founders which caused the organisation to be disbanded, but what exactly the conflict was is still a mystery to me, and I never inquired. Needless to say, I am still in contact with many that I knew from LoIS and still consider them my friends, even the founders.
Oh, and rest assured that Venger had nothing to do with the fracturing of LoIS.
coolvibe1975 10 months ago
@coolvibe1975 from what you said I agree Venger was not responsible since he left around 2005/2006. Thanks for the quick reply.
lamourlupus 10 months ago
Dude, I totally agree with you. Cheers! \m/
CircleOfCerberus 10 months ago 2
@CircleOfCerberus Much appreciated! \m/
coolvibe1975 10 months ago
Great video. The only point I would make is to question if it is the intention of Venger and the CoC to be a "Satanist" organization. If there goal is to be something else, then the standards they set for themselves are not relative to the standards sometimes set by Satanists... but that leads to why there is a competition in the first place.
egodiabolus666 10 months ago 6
@egodiabolus666 Great point. But Venger claims that the CoC *includes* Satanism, and therein lies the rub. It doesn't. Also, I would think that H.P. Lovecraft would do 5600 rpm in his coffin, considering what they are doing to the whole Lovecraftian thing. It's kinda like the L. Ron Hubbard thing, creating a religion from fiction, even though mr. Satanis has a better choice of fiction. If it were something else, I would think it's a cult of personality which Venger tries to create for himself.
coolvibe1975 10 months ago
@coolvibe1975
Can you demonstrate that the CoC paradigm does not contain Satanism? Have you considered the success of the Church of Scientology, a religion also based on fiction? If it were just a 'Cult of Personality' how can you explain the number of people who find value in it, use it as a tool, and do not find themselves worshiping Venger Satanis?
alisonleejones 10 months ago
@alisonleejones Can you demonstrate that it does? Ask better questions. Also, it might be worth seeing the video I made after this, where I correct some generalisations that I made. Furthermore, I cannot tell people what they should find value in, and nowhere did I state that. It's just my opinion, which is mine, and you are free to disagree with it.
coolvibe1975 10 months ago
@coolvibe1975
You are presenting the argument, you've made the statement, so the burden of proof is on you. Present your argument that the paradigm does not include Satanism, and I will certainly address it with a counter argument.
I agree it is your opinion, I don't believe I posited that it wasn't.
alisonleejones 10 months ago
@coolvibe1975 Where did Venger claim that the CoC includes (wholly?) Satanism, and what is it that substantiates your assertion here that it doesn't? Thanks.
TrollTowelhead 9 months ago
Well said....
satanicinternational 10 months ago
@satanicinternational Thanks.
coolvibe1975 10 months ago