A measure would mean a magnitude of some dimensional unit. But, measures of time are really just another way of expressing space. That is, the rotation of the earth around the sun, or the rotation of the earth resulting in night and day, etc. So, time really has no measurable reality, but its existence is experienced through novel moments which form a continuum. Without creativity there would be no time, just a clockwork universe where every thing rotates eternally in mechanical rotation.
@POWLIHERE22 No, I would say time is immeasurable. It is not a quantity of anything. Change is a spatialized symptom of a more fundamental potency. The potency of Time. Time is creativity. "Time is invention or it is nothing at all" -Bergson
The teleological process is an inversion of the mechanical view, but with the exception of variation, that is, time brings the novel element into the accumulation process. In my view, Bergson is saying that God did not bring creation into existence as in the Christian sense, because the existence of God is something of an ongoing birthing process that flows from the existence of time, and that God is a force behind the evolutionary process of creation, as is the universe itself. God grows.
View time as the novel element in the teleological process of evolution. Without time, there is no evolution, because there is no creation. This view of the process of creation would be an inversion of a mechanical view that creation has taken place, and that evolution follows on a causal basis. In the mechanical view, time would be abstract and linear, in the sense of a mathematical model. The axis points cannot connect, therefore, the entire universe is recreated at each point in abstract time
With respect to personal memory, we are all like vain actors who see our lives like a motion picture where we remember only those scenes that we or our self-interests are of prominent importance. Later on in life, we write over these scenes and, as a result, we lose tract of our true past, our personal memory vanishes.
Time exists because of novel moments. In Bergson, creation is an ongoing act, a process of creation, hence there is time. You can see this in your own life, that is, if you continue to do the same things day after day, then you lose tract of time. To children, every thing is new, hence time is a vast horizon for them.
@chasna2 I've read very little Bergson, and mostly Bergson through Deleuze, but wasn't Bergson a Kantian initially? Did he begin with time being an intuitive faculty?
I look at it as if there is a One Consciousness made up of every fragment in existence, which requires eternal being, or acquisition, if you will. For It, Time is any one of those fragments. For the fragment, Time seems an all-encompassing force or ether. For another fragment, Time is an idea of itself. But for the One, it remains forever turning into the zero. 1 = Schopenhauerian eternity > 0 according to the law of diminishing returns; the syzygy 0/1 is being; all else, reflection or state.
Bergson's concept of a "vital force" is a very interesting and valid concept in which to describe the "life force" that is to be found in nature and in organisms generally and their ability to procreate and so on.
Bergson's concept of vital force is very similar to Schopenhauer's will, but the main differences are that the will applies to conscious decisions and subconscious impulses and drives, whereas vital force is simply about the energy in organisms and its need to exert itself in biological life.
My reading of Schopenhauer is that the Will is evident in all things, including rocks and plants and, probably, stars.
I need to read more Bergson (I'm just a beginner there and I'll have more time after my exams are finished on Friday). So I guess you;re saying that élan vital related to his ideas of evolutionary forces.
I find reading Schopenhauer makes me feel better and I wonder if Bergson will do it for me too.
The same vital force or energy force that is found in the will of human beings is also to be found in trees and plants and other animals and creatures as well as insects. Biological organisms have found a way to perpetuate this activity or vibration in energy into a force that is supplemented by sustenance, whether it be water, minerals, food as well as sunlight. In things like rocks and inanimate matter the vibratory energy force is still there, but in a latent and unsupplemented way.
I should find my dissertation and read to you all the things I wrote about Bergson in that sad attempt to become conversant with the intricacies of time.
But what if the leaf is moving away from you et al. pyrro hehehe. At what distance does the brain starts making assumptions about the leaf. Life is an illusion, i think. So, about time. For me, i'd rub 1 to 12 off the clock. Now thats time. Neither is a beginning nor ending. Only events in which the duration is observed (a past).
A proper development of ideas and their notions can only be build on the old ideas that stand the test of time. Hegel in his logic wrote that the thinkers of the future will know all the useful concepts, methods, notions and lessons from the past and be able to build on this foundation. Tradition gives us stability and also the ability to develop ideas in a progressive manner.
Perhaps we cannot predict what will happen exactlly, because we cannot understand what the intention is, which is not reducible to the incidental conditions
I really liked it, though I'm a little more agnostic about its virtues these days. It's, as you say, about coming at others work with a mind to finding your own way, eventually. What he had to say about intuition endures, I think, though it needs a certain amount of rational constraint ... perhaps. Happy reading.
maybe, maybe - I have on my Amazon wish list - of Two Source of Morality and Religion as where I look into his thought from that angle - I have it in PDF format only right now - thinking of posting a video showing all my books like ya did
have you read Deleuze's book on Bergson?
Debordsbullet 1 month ago
A measure would mean a magnitude of some dimensional unit. But, measures of time are really just another way of expressing space. That is, the rotation of the earth around the sun, or the rotation of the earth resulting in night and day, etc. So, time really has no measurable reality, but its existence is experienced through novel moments which form a continuum. Without creativity there would be no time, just a clockwork universe where every thing rotates eternally in mechanical rotation.
AnonymousEconomist 2 months ago
The Universe is acting to accomplish just one thing and everything else follows its pattern.
blackcrow6667 2 months ago
@POWLIHERE22 No, I would say time is immeasurable. It is not a quantity of anything. Change is a spatialized symptom of a more fundamental potency. The potency of Time. Time is creativity. "Time is invention or it is nothing at all" -Bergson
0ThouArtThat0 2 months ago
@0ThouArtThat0 oh no its not going to work. Should have went for medical.
rightwingHateSpeech 2 months ago
Would you say that time is a measure of change?
POWLIHERE22 2 months ago
The teleological process is an inversion of the mechanical view, but with the exception of variation, that is, time brings the novel element into the accumulation process. In my view, Bergson is saying that God did not bring creation into existence as in the Christian sense, because the existence of God is something of an ongoing birthing process that flows from the existence of time, and that God is a force behind the evolutionary process of creation, as is the universe itself. God grows.
AnonymousEconomist 6 months ago
View time as the novel element in the teleological process of evolution. Without time, there is no evolution, because there is no creation. This view of the process of creation would be an inversion of a mechanical view that creation has taken place, and that evolution follows on a causal basis. In the mechanical view, time would be abstract and linear, in the sense of a mathematical model. The axis points cannot connect, therefore, the entire universe is recreated at each point in abstract time
AnonymousEconomist 6 months ago
With respect to personal memory, we are all like vain actors who see our lives like a motion picture where we remember only those scenes that we or our self-interests are of prominent importance. Later on in life, we write over these scenes and, as a result, we lose tract of our true past, our personal memory vanishes.
chasna2 3 years ago
Time exists because of novel moments. In Bergson, creation is an ongoing act, a process of creation, hence there is time. You can see this in your own life, that is, if you continue to do the same things day after day, then you lose tract of time. To children, every thing is new, hence time is a vast horizon for them.
chasna2 3 years ago
@chasna2 I've read very little Bergson, and mostly Bergson through Deleuze, but wasn't Bergson a Kantian initially? Did he begin with time being an intuitive faculty?
Debordsbullet 6 months ago
@chasna2 That's based in psychology of perception, that's not a true measure of what time is.
blackcrow6667 2 months ago
I look at it as if there is a One Consciousness made up of every fragment in existence, which requires eternal being, or acquisition, if you will. For It, Time is any one of those fragments. For the fragment, Time seems an all-encompassing force or ether. For another fragment, Time is an idea of itself. But for the One, it remains forever turning into the zero. 1 = Schopenhauerian eternity > 0 according to the law of diminishing returns; the syzygy 0/1 is being; all else, reflection or state.
crownofthorns101 3 years ago
Bergson. A great sophist indeed.
3rdWorldCrusader 3 years ago
Bergson's concept of a "vital force" is a very interesting and valid concept in which to describe the "life force" that is to be found in nature and in organisms generally and their ability to procreate and so on.
pythagoras9 3 years ago
Berson's 'Élan Vital' seems a bit like Schopenhauer's 'Will' to me.
lutzie200 3 years ago
Bergson's concept of vital force is very similar to Schopenhauer's will, but the main differences are that the will applies to conscious decisions and subconscious impulses and drives, whereas vital force is simply about the energy in organisms and its need to exert itself in biological life.
pythagoras9 3 years ago
My reading of Schopenhauer is that the Will is evident in all things, including rocks and plants and, probably, stars.
I need to read more Bergson (I'm just a beginner there and I'll have more time after my exams are finished on Friday). So I guess you;re saying that élan vital related to his ideas of evolutionary forces.
I find reading Schopenhauer makes me feel better and I wonder if Bergson will do it for me too.
lutzie200 3 years ago
The same vital force or energy force that is found in the will of human beings is also to be found in trees and plants and other animals and creatures as well as insects. Biological organisms have found a way to perpetuate this activity or vibration in energy into a force that is supplemented by sustenance, whether it be water, minerals, food as well as sunlight. In things like rocks and inanimate matter the vibratory energy force is still there, but in a latent and unsupplemented way.
pythagoras9 3 years ago
Bergson...Ah, yes.
2bsirius 3 years ago
I should find my dissertation and read to you all the things I wrote about Bergson in that sad attempt to become conversant with the intricacies of time.
2bsirius 3 years ago
But what if the leaf is moving away from you et al. pyrro hehehe. At what distance does the brain starts making assumptions about the leaf. Life is an illusion, i think. So, about time. For me, i'd rub 1 to 12 off the clock. Now thats time. Neither is a beginning nor ending. Only events in which the duration is observed (a past).
Bley121 3 years ago
A proper development of ideas and their notions can only be build on the old ideas that stand the test of time. Hegel in his logic wrote that the thinkers of the future will know all the useful concepts, methods, notions and lessons from the past and be able to build on this foundation. Tradition gives us stability and also the ability to develop ideas in a progressive manner.
pythagoras9 3 years ago
Sounds like another book I'm going to have to add to my list of books to read this summer. :)
I've still been meaning to read the ever present origin book by Gebser, but I'm still waiting on it from amazon.
HaleyMary 3 years ago
Perhaps we cannot predict what will happen exactlly, because we cannot understand what the intention is, which is not reducible to the incidental conditions
GodMechanism 3 years ago
You're going to love that book; only guard against adoration!
sssswwwsssss 3 years ago
thanks for the advice. what did you think of it?
0ThouArtThat0 3 years ago
I really liked it, though I'm a little more agnostic about its virtues these days. It's, as you say, about coming at others work with a mind to finding your own way, eventually. What he had to say about intuition endures, I think, though it needs a certain amount of rational constraint ... perhaps. Happy reading.
sssswwwsssss 3 years ago
I ended up buying Emerson athnology instead today
GrowthSpiral 3 years ago
I almost bought Thoreau's Walden. Glad to see we are on nearly the same page, so to speak : )
0ThouArtThat0 3 years ago
lol true
GrowthSpiral 3 years ago
maybe, maybe - I have on my Amazon wish list - of Two Source of Morality and Religion as where I look into his thought from that angle - I have it in PDF format only right now - thinking of posting a video showing all my books like ya did
GrowthSpiral 3 years ago
same book I was looking at my Barnes and Noble today!! lol
GrowthSpiral 3 years ago
101 years later, Bergson seems to be coming back into vogue, eh?
0ThouArtThat0 3 years ago