When I saw Dancing Brave race in 1986. I felt like he was the best European turf horse I had seen since Shergar back in 1981. He just looked so dominate in his 12f win's in the King George and the Arc that year, that I felt like there was no way this horse would lose at Santa Anita in the BC Turf. It's still to this day, IMO, one of the most surprising Breeders Cup results ever that Dancing Brave was not only beaten in the 86' BC Turf. But finished out of the money, also. Still can't believe it.
I heard recently that Harwood and co didnt know how good DB was between the age of 2 and 3 and even put him over a few hurdles at home!!! he was said to of jumped them like a natural.
What a race,I was there and got 6/4 Dancing Brave.He should Have Won The Derby but was "ridden wrong".Then when P.Eddery was on it I lumped on, The 2000 Guineas,(8/1 inside info) Then The Arc,I took "Pari Mutual ! The Best Flat Horse Of my Generation.(Im probarbly am talking through my pocket).
in my opinion dancing brave was the greatest middle distance horse of all time,the most blistering turn of foot,i loved this race,but his finest performance was to come in paris where he destroyed the best arc field ever assembled.
Dancing brave was a machine. Interviewed after the Derby Starkey said, that Dancing brave had fallen asleep and he couldn't get him wakened in time. Dancing brave was later interviewed and said that he couldn't get Starkey wakened in time!
listen, the derby was fixed, starkey didnt screew up he did what he was told. if you look the owners of sharantarni and dancing brave they are both brothers. the derby was fixed. dancing brave was a machine. sea the stars had pure class, he never got into top gear, he just done enough. cant seperate them.
@jforden21 What a numpty ! This is the nonsense we true racing fans have to put up with. For a start, Prince Khalid Abdullah ( who owned Dancing Brave ) is not the brother of the Aga Khan ( who owned Sharastani ). They are not related. Dancing Brave lost because of two things. 1) Starkey was instructed to hold him up for as long as possible and 2) Epsom did not suit him. Simple.
STS would not get near this lad, although their profiles are similar the quality of the field DB beat in the arc (second only to 1965) is what separates them.. STS beat youmzain not exactly the class of the 86 arc
if starkey hadnt screwed up at epsom no one would be doubting DB as the best ever look at his turn of foot at longchamp beating 5 or 6 world class horses this too after a long season
It's far too difficult to compare Sea the Stars and Dancing Brave. STS, according to trainers, never really went above 75%, but we can't really know how true this is. He had a knack of doing just enough to win, and he could beat what was put in front of him - who knows what the response would have been with Dancing Brave to compete with.
Because one or two people of moderate intelligence say that Dancing Brave is in a different league to Sea The Stars, we all have to somehow accept it. Nonsense ! Many others consider Sea The Stars the superior of the two. Timeform figures have them on an equal par. I'd back STS every time against Dancing Brave.
why do people compare horses from different eras? you cannot compare them and anyone who does is not appreciative of the sport ,just enjoy and admire them for what they are great racehorses.
if you look closely at the finish of this race, you will see that DB is level with Sharahstani with a furlong and a half to go with Triptych just behind, at the end Sharahstani is 10 lengths back with triptych 5 lengths back, Shardari ran very well and had the rail to help.
As, for being anti- Dancing Brave ... lol What utter tosh ! I know many people who are into horse-racing and not once have I heard them refer to anyone as being anti any race horse, let alone a top class one like Dancing Brave. If you cannot accept that there were other great horses whom others think were better than Dancing Brave ( who himself was better than the vast majority ), then you are the small minded one. He's certainly right up there, but the best ? for me and many others, NO way !
Whoosh!!!! What a horse. Triptych well back and she was top class. Love watching these races. Truth is we will always have our opinions and we will not all agree. Sea The Stars was a brilliant horse as was Dancing Brave. Different styles of running. STS always seemed to be holding something back while DB was electric. As to would win in a race between the two? Dancing Brave over a mile in my opinion but over further who knows. But it would be something to see.
@08DENMAN There is nothing in th eform book to suggest that Dancing Brave would have beaten Sea The Stars over a mile or anything exceeding a mile. In fact, both ran only once at a mile - in the 2,000 Guineas - and on a similar surface. Sea The Stars ran 4 seconds faster in 2009 than Dancing Brave did in 1986. That is one helluva difference in anyone's book. We are talking about a wide margin here. Dancing Brave's Arc win was by far his best performance visually - and on all known form.
Between 2:30 am and 2:34 am, while I was writing a reply, the highest rated post on here fluctuated between 58 (down from 61) and 64 thumbs up. Enough said. Shenanigans are afoot.
@zarakhast Well, deluded one, I, like most normal human beings, was fast asleep long before then. So, where does that leave your conspiracy theory now. Up shit creek without even the most basic of paddles ! YOU are quite mad - as well as sad. I urge you, seek professional help. I'm beginning to feel sorry you. You're obviously not right in the head.
That's what you call a "turn of foot". Sea The Stars never produced anything like this and was always so dull to watch. The fact that STS and Dubai Millenium have been rated as equal to Dancing Brave makes me feel sick. Dancing Brave would have murdered both of them.
@zarakhast FFs. " Makes me feel sick" - weighing up the context in which it was made - and by whom, I therefore ask you, men and women of the YouTube jury : does this comment smack you as being from one who is sick in the head or not ?
I will leave it for you to decide whether yay or nay. lol
@zarakhast That clinches what ? Disguise ? On YouTube ? Ffs get an appointment with some shrink, you sad, pathetic, little nutjob. Again, and for the final time - not that I need to - I AM NOT who you think I might be - or who you want me to be. I wish this bloke would return and save me from all this "misery " and pestering from some idiot who has fallen in love with a race horse. lol
@147ard Some of them may well be; who knows - but I do know the twice defeated Dancing Brave definitely was ! God, that horse was fast but he was one ugly minger ! ; )
@ThefightingCelt, you could of called DB an 8 time winner, but instead you go for the anti DB critique of twice defeated. Also why aren't your apparent racing forum friends on here giving critique. Brush up on your banta. lol
@147ard They discuss racing ; as true racing fans do, on THE RACING FORUM. We'd love to see you and your "friends" over there. You can indulge in all the banter you want. As for Dancing Brave; you will find many fans on the forum who think he was the best - and you will find many more who think differently. But the ones who love him above all others don't cry like babies when other members offer a different opinion to theirs. They are, as you would soon find, much more grown up about things.
@ThefightingCelt, i see, i do think someone is behaving like a baby on here, lets have a recap of the mighty Celt, you have called NWM66 a 'deluded fool' and myself a moron for our views, and lets not forget that you said STS ran a furlong in under 9 seconds. I can see why you are on the Racing Forum due to your masterful knowledge of Pigeon Racing.
@147ard What, are you afraid you might get shown up for what you are if joining The Racing Forum ? Instead of shouting insults like some little schoolboy, sign up (it's free ) and mix it with some men and women of substance.Sea The Stars ran a faster Arc than Dancing Brave. Sea The Stars ran a faster 2,000 Guineas than Dancing Brave. Sea The Stars ran a faster Eclipse than Dancing Brave. In short, Sea The Stars was a faster racehorse than Dancing Brave - over any distance. It's indisputable.
@ThefightingCelt So the best way to compare horses is overall race times? This is a deeply flawed premise and is essentially a simpleton's argument. Is this really the best you have to offer. Next you'll be claiming STS ran a furlong in under 9 seconds.
@Newworldman66 It's not as false as you. Make up your mind who you wish to be. It's more foolproof than using one isolated sectional time. Is it not ? Yes, horse races throw up many imponderables but, better to work from a premise that treats the race as a whole, rather than in part. I use the times simply to illustrate that in all of the group 1 races mentioned, Dancing Brave only put up one truly outstanding performance - i.e The Arc ; whereas Sea The Stars exceeded that - eg Arc and Eclipse
@ThefightingCelt So isolated sectional times aren't important? Remind who suggested the alleged sub 9 second STS furlong was significant? As regards overall race times you can't just cherry pick ones that suit your premise. So if you believe STS was superior to DB on comparative race times then you also have to accept that STS's Derby and 2000G wouldn't have been good enough for him to even place in the same year's Oaks and 1000G. So what's it to be?
@Newworldman66 But both his 2,000 gns and Derby wins would have been good enough to beat Dancing Brave. Even Rip Van Winkle's run in the Eclipse was a better performance than Dancing Brave's win. If you think Dancing Brave was greatest race horse ever, then you have a lot to learn. By the way, I think Sea The Stars was superior to Dancing Brave full stop - times or no times.
@ThefightingCelt As regards STS's iyo 2 o/s performances, the Arc was probably his best effort but actually rates a long way behind true all time greats. As for the Eclipse STS was all out to hold off RVW and only did so after Kinane waived his whip in RVW's face as he closed to half a length causing RVW to flinch then jink to his left. RVW has gone on to overall look very ordinary.
@Newworldman66 Sea The Stars broke the Eclipse record when he won. Of course he had to put up a "stellar" performance. He actually quickened again ( not just staying on ) when Rip Van Winkle challenged him. RVW is essentially a speed horse and was ridden that day to do, if you like, a Dancing Brave on STS. But even AOB conceded that they had simply come up against the best horse in the last 30 years. Kinane didn't his whip in RVW's face. Johnny Murtagh said he had been beaten by a "monster."
@ThefightingCelt ,JESUS CHRIST, papa dickhead said the exact same thing before he went away, what a load of nonsense, Papa also was praised STS in place of SB just before he left, just give it up.
@147ard Well then, great minds must think alike ! You really are quite thick. Now, jog on or join the Racing Forum, and share your deluded thoughts about your anal fixation with Dancing Brave to people who actually know what they are talking about when it comes to horse racing. I find this papa stuff hilarious. You think him to be me ! Paranoid or what ? You really do need treatment. You should also refrain from all this name calling as it shows you up for the uneducated chav you are.
@147ard Quite ingenious though isn't it - voting for yourself multiple times and then bombarding the board with posts to prevent people from scrolling down to see what was becoming a potentially tricky situation ?. It's funny that MrPapaBill was also from Scotland and was also anal about STS and Brigadier Gerard. What's he going to use for his next disguise - a plastic moustache ?
@ThefightingCelt Please realise that to give a thumbs up you need to have an account on here and sign in, you say its your friends giving you 62 thumbs up to your comment, if that is the case why do they never leave comments. Very odd indeed.
@147ard They only logged in order to wind one person up - that is Zarakahast , Newworldman and YOU aka THE ANAL RETENTIVE NEUROTIC / PSYCHOTIC with the Dancing Brave fixation. ps See a shrink ! lol
@ThefightingCelt Let me get this straight, you have friends that give you a thumbs up and they never leave comments on any race. You seem to be digging yourself into a black hole. Everyone on here here knows it's you with different accounts. I didn't realise that friends came in the shape of laptops. I eagerly wait for your next pile of banta. 9 seconds lol
@147ard Listen arsehole, you are the only one digging the hole. So keep on digging. Who is everyone ? You and your other identity - zarakhast ? As I said, you are totally wrong. I have been reading some of those old posts. Reading between the lines, I think papabill was Tarogan. But so what. The common theme which runs through all your/zarakhast's posts is that any person who holds a different opinion to you is targeted for abuse. Now, why would that be ? Is it because you're a little tosser ?
@147ard Phone the Samaritans mate. It's never too late. I am far from angry. The anger is all yours. I am simply bemused by your false accusations and needless pestering. You have completely lost the plot. One thing idiots like you hate is being proved wrong. You are an attention seeker, and for whatever nefarious reason, you persist in making a fool of yourself in your futile efforts to denigrate me. Isn't it odd that no one else seems to share your misguided and paranoid views.
@ThefightingCelt not 1 but 3 people on here think your papabill. Please explain how biggtims comment went from 123 thumbs up down to zero just after you joined. Did it take 9 seconds. lolololol. I bet your gonna start swearing again? LETS BANTA or are you still in da nile (long river)lololol. My sides are sore with laughter Papacelt.
@Newworldman66 The bloke is a nutcase with a vendetta. He likes to think of himself as the "authority" on horse racing and wants to bully everyone into accepting his point of view.
@147ard His writing style, his dirty tactics, his abusiveness, his hatred of Dancing Brave - it's all far too much of a coincidence. I mean is it really likely that two different people would independently accuse you, me and Neworldman of being the same person ? And 60 thumbs up for ANY post on a horse racing video from 24 yrs ago - is that really likely ?
@147ard Apparently we (you, me and Newworldman) are the same person according to ThefightingCelt. MrPapaBill also repetitively made the same claim. He was also obsessed with Sea The Stars and Brigadier Gerard. This bloke is an open book. If he has an opinion why can't he express it a bit more humbly ? Instead of that he feels the need to cheat to get his own way. He can't bear losing an argument either. He always has to have the last word.
@zarakhast i agree, he was and is a very hostile person who loves to pick holes in DB ability, he also makes lots of nonsense up, his attempt to say that DB split times were beaten was rediculous, he stated STS ran a furlong in under 9 seconds. He also had quotes from the racing post that i could never find, so they were obviously made up.
@147ard Hostile. Nah ! Papa Bill ? Definitely nah ! Spell ridiculous correctly and I might take you seriously. Dancing Brave was a great horse. Not the best though.
@zarakhast No, I said you are also Newworldman - and I stick by that. No one, not even you, can be as stupid as 147ard. However, you are nevertheless blighted by association.
@ThefightingCelt Newworldman and I and 147ard are three separate people, I can assure you of that. And the other two know more about horse racing than I do. But someone was cheating here - thumbing up your blatantly anti-DB posts to a frankly unbelievable level. And your remarks are so reminiscent of our old friend MrPapaBill's it's uncanny. He was also good at turning on the charm when circumstances called for it. So pull the other one. Either you're MrPapaBill or you're his parrot.
@zarakhast Well, well, well, the anal retentive returns - one third of the multi-personality, whose adoration of one horse and adherence to the " none better than Dancing Brave, and if you say so I'll/we'll stamp my/our feet " dogma, has blinded him from ny sense of reasoning or rationale. If my comments are similar to some bloke whom I do not know, then it is mere coincidence. I never thumbed up any posts, so you are totally and utterly misguided, as you are about who you believe me to be.
@ThefightingCelt Well explain then where you got this idea from that 147ard, Newworldman and myself (zarakhast) are the same person ? That was MrPapaBill's rather puerile attempt at humour. Are you just copying him ? Are you a relative or friend, continuing to fight his corner for him after he felt he had to "retire" ? Or are you simply MrPapaBill ? And how did you manage to get 60+ thumbs up for one of your lamest ever posts ? Your attempts at diplomacy don't convince me.
@zarakhast I don't need to explain anything to you. But for the sake of humouring you, I'll offer you this by way of reply. I find it odd, that's all, that you, Newworldman and the intellectually challenged piece of the anal retentive jigsaw ( 147ard of thinking ! ) think alike, post similar attacks, accusations etc and reply in the same maner regarding my opinions on Dancing Brave - i.e. child like ranting because it counters your views on the horse . Coincidence ? I think not. Now, jog on.
@zarakhast there was also a comment by Bigttim that had 120 thumbs up that was slandering Papabill, just after celt joined it went down to zero, very odd indeed. Who on earth would do something like that.?lol
@147ard Very, very odd ! I'm waiting for his next tactic. He could try just being honest and admitting that he tried it on but I've got a feeling that that's not one of his options.
I recently joined a skiing forum. We conducted a poll to establish which skiers were best known among the non-skiing public. Eddie The Eagle came out top, with Franz Klammer sliding in a distant second. Klammer was an excellent skier but lacked the rugged good looks of Italy's Alberto Tomba.
That's what you call a turn of foot. Sea The Stars never produced anything to compare with that. The only horses which might genuinely lay a claim to being better than DB are : Sea Bird, Ribot and Secretariat. Sea The Stars was a big, lumbering animal which lacked the lightness of foot which would be required to mark him out as a true great. If a horse can't sustain it's top speed for more than six or seven seconds then it's certainly not a great horse.
@ThefightingCelt 59 thumbs up for an utterly pointless post ? How many computers have you got, MrPapaBill ? It was only a few months ago that you were getting 59 thumbs down !
Nijinsky is better known by the "non-racing public" of today as a dancer, not as a horse. To mention Shergar is pointless : everyone knows about Shergar. You're showing your age.
@ThefightingCelt, so STS would of beaten shergar in his Derby, Montjeu in his KG and DB in his Arc, i think not. Also why have the experts rated STS 6lbs below DB? Are you on the old banta again?
people are blinded by nostalgia, they never want to see their heroes of yesteryear surpassed but sometimes they are and thats just the way it is!!people are talking about his record, sts has a better record, db never even won a derby, bad ride or not, great horses always find a way to win!!he wasnt impressive in this race either, the 2nd was coming back at him at the line!!great horse but not the greatest!sea the stars new king of the track!!wouldve beat db at any distance!!!
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Most non racing fans, if asked to name a famous flat racehorse, would probably name Shergar, followed by Nijinsky. Dancing Brave was a brilliant horse on his day, but on looks he was very average looking - parrot mouthed and lean, he hardly had the majestic looks of a Sir Ivor, Nijinsky or Sea The Stars.
@ThefightingCelt, i disagree, the Brave could cover ground faster than Shergar and Nijinsky at the end of any distance, DB furlong records stand to this day. So are you the new Papabill?
@ThefightingCelt That's rubbish. Most people would name Shergar, because he was kidnapped and made into dogmeat ; Red Rum because he won the National three times ; Desert Orchid because he was brilliant and grey. But it doesn't really matter what people think, it only matters which the best horse was. And that was Dancing Brave. Sea The Stars, Nijinsky, Sir Ivor - Nashwan would have beaten all of them. And DB would have beaten Nashwan : the best turn of foot makes all the difference.
@zarakhast said, " doesn't really matter what people think - It only matters what the best horse is ? " Oh is that right ? It only matter what you think, is that it ? Explain your logic please - in view of the explanation given as to why some horses are more popular with the public than others, regardless of ability - i'm slightly bemused to say the least. You have no way of discerning whether any great horse from one era could have beaten one from another era, so why bother ?
So why bother trying to claim that Shergar and Nijinsky are better known than, e.g. Dancing Brave ? Shergar is better known, but not because of his racing achievements (great though they were, and I, too, am a fan), but Nijinsky isn't : that was 40 years ago ! How is the "non-racing public" going to know about Nijinsky (the horse) 40 years on when they're not even bothered about racing ? No more anti-Dancing Brave stuff please. Your post was pointless : how did it get so much support ?
@zarakhast Get a life man. Where have I posted anything anti-dancing brave ? Why would I ? Fantastic racehorse, if a bit on the ugly side. If I do post an opinion that differs from you - just deal with it and don't dictate what I can and cannot post. The subject of famous racehorses cropped up on the Racing Forum. Most of our members ( all ages ) agreed that if you asked the non racing fan to name a famous flat race horse most would say Shergar followed by Nijinsky. NH Red Rum and Arkle
@ThefightingCelt "Fantastic racehorse, if a bit on the ugly side" - ha ha ! But how can a racing forum decide what the non-racing public might think ? And I forgot about Arkle , though I reckon that because Desert Orchid is more recent he would be better known by the non-racing public. Anyway, silly conversation over. I'm sure you know an awful lot about horse racing and good luck to you. And I'm relieved you're not Mr.PapaBill.
@zarakhast The Racing Forum did not decide - it was based on what they asked friends who don't have any interest in horse-racing. A bit like asking someone to name a very famous footballer. Again, most would answer Pele or Maradona. The Racing Post asked its readers to vote for their favourite racehorse - not what they thought was the best. They received votes from all over the UK and Ireland. Thousands voted. Arkle came top - even though he last ran in 1966. Top flat horse was Brigadier Gerard
@zarakhast That was an idiotic and stupid response. Try reading the post in front of you. It was about favourite horses, NOT which ones they thought were best. For example, Lord Oaksey said his FAVOURITE ever horse was the chaser, Pas Seul, although he said Arkle was by far the best he'd seen. Dancing Brave, your favourite I believe, came 8th on the list of FAVOURITE horses.
@ThefightingCelt Your 62 thumbs up post (I'm sure I'm making it even more popular) wasn't about racing fans' favourite horses, it was about horses that people without an interest in horse racing had heard of. It was designed to disparage Dancing Brave in a suspiciously MrPapaBill-esque manner. I just thought I'd point out to you and all your devoted supporters that it is a) a pointless post, and b) almost certainly not true in any case.
@zarakhast Get a life mate. Though it is encouraging to know so many people agree with me. What is all this about Dancing Brave - a horse who last ran 24 years ago. Did you once shag Dancing Brave, is that what is. I'll bet you're a geek.
@Newworldman66 Sad cases post to themselves ! This papa guy has nothing to to with me. Now get a grip. That bloke must have got right under your skin.
Lets have a look at the evidence. Papa Bill throws in the towel. A few months later Thefightingcelt appears. A number of posts unfavourable to Papa Bill immediately become 'be displayed' only and an anti DB post by you has 60+ thumbs up in no time - clearly fake votes made by you.
You make the same points as Papy in the same style and respond with the same irritability and flippancy when challenged along with the same accusations.
@Newworldman66 You deluded fool. Wrong ! Wrong and wrong again. You seem such an ANAL character, Zarakhast - oh yes, for Zarakhast is who you are. Bet you won't own up to that, Mr. psychology student. pmsl. No idea who this papabill guy was but, sounds as if he has annoyed you sufficiently to elicit such anger. I wish he would return ( or maybe he's dead - or Taroqan ? : / ) and get me off the hook - for I don't know how much more of these false insinuations I can take. : (
@ThefightingCelt Anger? There's no anger in any of my posts. If you read them as angry then you must be applying your own angry inflection. Surely only someone with a disposition prone to anger would do that?
@Newworldman66 No, on the contrary, Zarakhast ; you don't mind if refer to you by your other moniker - be a good chap and refrain from of your pseudo psychological tendencies, if you please. We are discussing horse racing here. Besides, it doesn't wash with me - and trying to employ reverse psychology is the last refuge of the desperately inadequate. ; )
@ThefightingCelt Merely pointing out your error and suggesting why you would have made such an error is not by any stretch reverse psychology. For someone to think that it is would surely be a much better example of inadequacy.
@Newworldman66, spot on mate, i've clocked onto him as well, there was a comment that had 125 thumbs up which was swearing at Papa, then it went down rapidly after Papacelt joined again, its now 60 plus for a comment saying DB is lean mouthed on his KG. Also every comment he replies to me gets a thumbs up. My conclusion is that Papacelt has 5 accounts or computers and loves BANTA.
@147ard What a moron ! Your conclusion is like your spelling ! Banta ????
I am NOT this papabill fella, For the love of god, get a fkn grip, would you. I checked him out. Fromw hat I see, he was a big Sea Bird fan. Before my time matey. I like Sea The Stars. So give it a rest.
@Newworldman66 Good man Zarakahast ! Takes a big man to admit that he has more than one account. Try to get Dancing Brave out your system and stick to Dostoevsky. Might suggest " The Idiot " ; )
Dancing Brave was a freak who most experts agree had the speed to win a July Cup yet genuinely stayed 1M4F, all this cross generational thing makes good debate and if you think back to those great holidays you've had they are just that...you forget about the sunstroke, the arguments as we have a knack of making history perfect and making it better than it was..Sea The Stars was awesome but Dancing Brave was a sexy horse (you know what i mean!) and that's why this speedball freak is so treasured.
@Kingmole2008 I think it depends on which generation you belong to, although If you asked non racing fans across the generations to name a famous flat racehorse, most would probably say Shergar, followed by Nijinsky. Those two seem to be the most well known.
Best turn of foot of all the greats. All other things being equal, therefore the greatest. And if he wasn't the greatest he was the most stylish and dramatic. Sea The Stars was boring in every race he won.
@HighChapparral Dancing Brave was a fair bit better than his opponents here - better than the 3/4 length he won by. Eddery admitted that he brought him too early here, though he also said that he hadn't been told that DB tended to idle in front. DB was at least 3L better than anything here. STS had a turn of foot which petered out in a matter of seconds. It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if STS had been asked to go for the line over a furlong out.
Look, if I were obsessed with Dancing Brave I'd be posting on these videos every day - and I don't.
As it happens I don't accept your opinions. You know that already.
One minute you claim to rate DB, though not as the best ; the next, you draw comparisons between him and other horses which make him sound like a selling plater !
You are obsessed. Not only with Dancing Brave but by what I have to say. In your world, everything must fit snugly into THE box you have made - metaphorically speaking.I have said on many occasion that Dancing Brave was a class act. I BACKED him many times, a comment I have made numerous times but needless to say, this YOU CHOOSE to IGNORE. I reiterate, I backed him in all his 3 year old races - even in THAT bloody Derby and in THAT American race. However, I rate a select few above him - ok !
This is my favourite horse and maybe also my favourite race, because this was Shahrastani vs. Dancing Brave part 2. .The way DB accelerates away from the others here is exhilarating. Pardon me, but I never saw Sea The Stars produce anything as spectacular.
I haven't failed to notice any of the things you've said - some of them being fair. You exaggerate though when it suits your purposes. I'd like to hear your top 10 middle distance horses in order, and why. Would Theatrical be in there ?
Now you're just trying to ingratiate yourself with people who haven't read earlier posts. You make it sound as if you'd been a Dancing Brave fan all along : backed him in every race and so on. You''re trying to butter people up so that in a short while you can present your arguments, which some of us are already acquainted with, against Dancing Brave and for Brigadier Gerard, Sea Bird II, Sea The Stars etc.
Go away you sad little arsehole.I have no need to butter anyone up. I had already said in earlier posts that I had backed DB in these races ; however, because I did so, it did not blind me to the fact that he was not the greatest racehorse ever. In fact, you only backed him in one race the Arc, as you admitted. Seems a bit starnge you should be preaching to your elders and ones who were there from the beginning of the horse's career.Btw, The horses you mention were superior to Dancing Brave.
If I have seen any horse to beat Sea The Stars it's The Brave. In anything other than a very fast run race I think it would be very close. But not on a left handed track!!
It looked fast but that doesn't mean anything, does it. Don't know the time and can't remember the state of the ground on the day. I just think that if The Brave hadn't played his hand and was within a length of STS in the final half furlong his blitzing finish would win the day. That is, of course, unless the pace was so furious he had nothing left in which case STS would out stay him.
If I told you Petoski ran it 2 seconds faster then you'd be speechless right? Petoski is widely regarded as one of the worst winners of the KG ever but he probably beat the best field ever!! I love watching top class animals race and personally I dont think theres much between DB and STS.Two fantastic colts who carried all before them!! Fantastic
As I hinted the state of the ground over 12 furlongs could account for the 2 seconds, and more. Besides, Oh So Sharp was unlucky to get beat by Petoski. She didn't get the run of the race on the day and I think it's just that un-predictable factor which would decide the the DB v STS issue. I fear it will be another 20 years before we see their like again, if we are lucky!
Shardari was a 4 year old in this race wasnt he? Dancing Braves turn of foot was very much instant in this race probably his best turn of foot in his career.Notice how he hangs to the right after he's quickened up and Eddery goes for the whip almost instantly.The first 3 home in this race were in the first 5 home in the Arc.I dont think Petoski raced again after this race.
And that, my friends, was over 12f - which Dancing Brave "didn't stay". Not a bad performance considering ... He'd have won the Leger in my opinion. He was so good. I've yet to hear a decent argument against Dancing Brave's claims to be the best of all time. You don't see speed like that, produced over almost any distance, every year. Nijinsky won over further but he never showed a turn og foot like that. Look at the way DB goes away from them and then consider the records of the other horses.
Nijinsky was never really asked to do more than win his race and then Lester pulled him up.He's one of the few Montjeu being another who werent asked to extend in their King George and won hard held.Sure enough DB pulls away but Shardari is reeling him in at the end.Makes you wonder why Swinburn stuck with Shahrastani after his awful showing in this race,in the Arc??
Shardari is definitely underrated. He was right there at the end in the '86 Arc as well. If you took Dancing Brave out of this race how good would Shardari have looked ? A very good horse.
It would be an interesting poll, which might be targeted at students - since students study f*ck all these days in the name of the advancement of knowledge - : Which is the most exciting horse you've ever seen ? Which is the one that really floated your young, artistic, idealistic boat ? And was it the best horse, or only the most exciting ? MrPapaBill would not be allowed to vote, because a) he's too old, and b) he exaggerates too much.
PS - Sea The Stars doesn't come into the same category. For all his wins and for all his versatiltiy he had the charisma of Wayne Rooney throughout. His turn of foot was just DULL : DULL, DULL, DULL.
When I saw Dancing Brave race in 1986. I felt like he was the best European turf horse I had seen since Shergar back in 1981. He just looked so dominate in his 12f win's in the King George and the Arc that year, that I felt like there was no way this horse would lose at Santa Anita in the BC Turf. It's still to this day, IMO, one of the most surprising Breeders Cup results ever that Dancing Brave was not only beaten in the 86' BC Turf. But finished out of the money, also. Still can't believe it.
GBeret83 5 months ago
He is an eternal superstar.
Even if a however strong horse comes out, I will think more than it.
CTHE ? stars foolish .
he is Frankel if it is right.
round999444 5 months ago
I heard recently that Harwood and co didnt know how good DB was between the age of 2 and 3 and even put him over a few hurdles at home!!! he was said to of jumped them like a natural.
mallafets 5 months ago
What a race,I was there and got 6/4 Dancing Brave.He should Have Won The Derby but was "ridden wrong".Then when P.Eddery was on it I lumped on, The 2000 Guineas,(8/1 inside info) Then The Arc,I took "Pari Mutual ! The Best Flat Horse Of my Generation.(Im probarbly am talking through my pocket).
Mr1964fletch 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Closely listen to an Inception dvd made prior to the January the 8th Tucson shooting, especially around the dialogue, "Do It."
jamestargetedindiv 7 months ago
in my opinion dancing brave was the greatest middle distance horse of all time,the most blistering turn of foot,i loved this race,but his finest performance was to come in paris where he destroyed the best arc field ever assembled.
mrgrady12 8 months ago 2
Dancing brave was a machine. Interviewed after the Derby Starkey said, that Dancing brave had fallen asleep and he couldn't get him wakened in time. Dancing brave was later interviewed and said that he couldn't get Starkey wakened in time!
targetmc1 8 months ago 5
@targetmc1 LOL that is the best summary of that race EVER!
sleeplessinsale 1 month ago
@sleeplessinsale lol Sleepless, glad you liked it. What a horse!
targetmc1 1 month ago
listen, the derby was fixed, starkey didnt screew up he did what he was told. if you look the owners of sharantarni and dancing brave they are both brothers. the derby was fixed. dancing brave was a machine. sea the stars had pure class, he never got into top gear, he just done enough. cant seperate them.
jforden21 11 months ago
@jforden21 Derby fixed? lol!
foriamonlyahorse11 10 months ago
@jforden21 What a numpty ! This is the nonsense we true racing fans have to put up with. For a start, Prince Khalid Abdullah ( who owned Dancing Brave ) is not the brother of the Aga Khan ( who owned Sharastani ). They are not related. Dancing Brave lost because of two things. 1) Starkey was instructed to hold him up for as long as possible and 2) Epsom did not suit him. Simple.
ThefightingCelt 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
dancing brave by far the best racehorse ever--sea the stars moderate in comparison
persyroncallio 11 months ago
STS would not get near this lad, although their profiles are similar the quality of the field DB beat in the arc (second only to 1965) is what separates them.. STS beat youmzain not exactly the class of the 86 arc
johngilly28 1 year ago
Eddery taking the piss.
martinh103 1 year ago
if starkey hadnt screwed up at epsom no one would be doubting DB as the best ever look at his turn of foot at longchamp beating 5 or 6 world class horses this too after a long season
skababooshka 1 year ago 4
It's far too difficult to compare Sea the Stars and Dancing Brave. STS, according to trainers, never really went above 75%, but we can't really know how true this is. He had a knack of doing just enough to win, and he could beat what was put in front of him - who knows what the response would have been with Dancing Brave to compete with.
communistkalashnikov 1 year ago
Because one or two people of moderate intelligence say that Dancing Brave is in a different league to Sea The Stars, we all have to somehow accept it. Nonsense ! Many others consider Sea The Stars the superior of the two. Timeform figures have them on an equal par. I'd back STS every time against Dancing Brave.
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
@ThefightingCelt And you would lose a lot of money. lol
147ard 1 year ago
@elgransenor1 Sea the stars was a true superstar but he wasn't in the same league as the brave
bigttim1 1 year ago
What a horse. Truly magic...
ASupremeOwl 1 year ago 3
why do people compare horses from different eras? you cannot compare them and anyone who does is not appreciative of the sport ,just enjoy and admire them for what they are great racehorses.
sarsfield7 1 year ago
who the fuck bet on Sharistani. It was obvious from the derby DB was in a class of his own!!!
Stube437 1 year ago
if you look closely at the finish of this race, you will see that DB is level with Sharahstani with a furlong and a half to go with Triptych just behind, at the end Sharahstani is 10 lengths back with triptych 5 lengths back, Shardari ran very well and had the rail to help.
147ard 1 year ago
As, for being anti- Dancing Brave ... lol What utter tosh ! I know many people who are into horse-racing and not once have I heard them refer to anyone as being anti any race horse, let alone a top class one like Dancing Brave. If you cannot accept that there were other great horses whom others think were better than Dancing Brave ( who himself was better than the vast majority ), then you are the small minded one. He's certainly right up there, but the best ? for me and many others, NO way !
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
Comment removed
HereWeGoAgain595 1 year ago
Whoosh!!!! What a horse. Triptych well back and she was top class. Love watching these races. Truth is we will always have our opinions and we will not all agree. Sea The Stars was a brilliant horse as was Dancing Brave. Different styles of running. STS always seemed to be holding something back while DB was electric. As to would win in a race between the two? Dancing Brave over a mile in my opinion but over further who knows. But it would be something to see.
08DENMAN 1 year ago
@08DENMAN There is nothing in th eform book to suggest that Dancing Brave would have beaten Sea The Stars over a mile or anything exceeding a mile. In fact, both ran only once at a mile - in the 2,000 Guineas - and on a similar surface. Sea The Stars ran 4 seconds faster in 2009 than Dancing Brave did in 1986. That is one helluva difference in anyone's book. We are talking about a wide margin here. Dancing Brave's Arc win was by far his best performance visually - and on all known form.
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
Between 2:30 am and 2:34 am, while I was writing a reply, the highest rated post on here fluctuated between 58 (down from 61) and 64 thumbs up. Enough said. Shenanigans are afoot.
zarakhast 1 year ago
@zarakhast Well, deluded one, I, like most normal human beings, was fast asleep long before then. So, where does that leave your conspiracy theory now. Up shit creek without even the most basic of paddles ! YOU are quite mad - as well as sad. I urge you, seek professional help. I'm beginning to feel sorry you. You're obviously not right in the head.
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
That's what you call a "turn of foot". Sea The Stars never produced anything like this and was always so dull to watch. The fact that STS and Dubai Millenium have been rated as equal to Dancing Brave makes me feel sick. Dancing Brave would have murdered both of them.
zarakhast 1 year ago
@zarakhast FFs. " Makes me feel sick" - weighing up the context in which it was made - and by whom, I therefore ask you, men and women of the YouTube jury : does this comment smack you as being from one who is sick in the head or not ?
I will leave it for you to decide whether yay or nay. lol
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
@ThefightingCelt That clinches it. You ARE MrPapaBill. Try a slightly less obvious disguise next time, eh ?
zarakhast 1 year ago 37
@zarakhast That clinches what ? Disguise ? On YouTube ? Ffs get an appointment with some shrink, you sad, pathetic, little nutjob. Again, and for the final time - not that I need to - I AM NOT who you think I might be - or who you want me to be. I wish this bloke would return and save me from all this "misery " and pestering from some idiot who has fallen in love with a race horse. lol
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
@zarakhast CONFUSION will be your EPITAPH !
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
As for all the thumbs up - blame my mates on the racing forum. : ) They find all this hilarious.
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
@ThefightingCelt, are your mates parrot mouthed and lean, lets see if this gets 60 thumbs up in a week. lol
147ard 1 year ago
@147ard Some of them may well be; who knows - but I do know the twice defeated Dancing Brave definitely was ! God, that horse was fast but he was one ugly minger ! ; )
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
@ThefightingCelt, you could of called DB an 8 time winner, but instead you go for the anti DB critique of twice defeated. Also why aren't your apparent racing forum friends on here giving critique. Brush up on your banta. lol
147ard 1 year ago
@147ard They discuss racing ; as true racing fans do, on THE RACING FORUM. We'd love to see you and your "friends" over there. You can indulge in all the banter you want. As for Dancing Brave; you will find many fans on the forum who think he was the best - and you will find many more who think differently. But the ones who love him above all others don't cry like babies when other members offer a different opinion to theirs. They are, as you would soon find, much more grown up about things.
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago 2
@ThefightingCelt, i see, i do think someone is behaving like a baby on here, lets have a recap of the mighty Celt, you have called NWM66 a 'deluded fool' and myself a moron for our views, and lets not forget that you said STS ran a furlong in under 9 seconds. I can see why you are on the Racing Forum due to your masterful knowledge of Pigeon Racing.
147ard 1 year ago
@147ard What, are you afraid you might get shown up for what you are if joining The Racing Forum ? Instead of shouting insults like some little schoolboy, sign up (it's free ) and mix it with some men and women of substance.Sea The Stars ran a faster Arc than Dancing Brave. Sea The Stars ran a faster 2,000 Guineas than Dancing Brave. Sea The Stars ran a faster Eclipse than Dancing Brave. In short, Sea The Stars was a faster racehorse than Dancing Brave - over any distance. It's indisputable.
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
@ThefightingCelt So the best way to compare horses is overall race times? This is a deeply flawed premise and is essentially a simpleton's argument. Is this really the best you have to offer. Next you'll be claiming STS ran a furlong in under 9 seconds.
Newworldman66 1 year ago
@Newworldman66 It's not as false as you. Make up your mind who you wish to be. It's more foolproof than using one isolated sectional time. Is it not ? Yes, horse races throw up many imponderables but, better to work from a premise that treats the race as a whole, rather than in part. I use the times simply to illustrate that in all of the group 1 races mentioned, Dancing Brave only put up one truly outstanding performance - i.e The Arc ; whereas Sea The Stars exceeded that - eg Arc and Eclipse
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
@ThefightingCelt So isolated sectional times aren't important? Remind who suggested the alleged sub 9 second STS furlong was significant? As regards overall race times you can't just cherry pick ones that suit your premise. So if you believe STS was superior to DB on comparative race times then you also have to accept that STS's Derby and 2000G wouldn't have been good enough for him to even place in the same year's Oaks and 1000G. So what's it to be?
Newworldman66 1 year ago
@Newworldman66 But both his 2,000 gns and Derby wins would have been good enough to beat Dancing Brave. Even Rip Van Winkle's run in the Eclipse was a better performance than Dancing Brave's win. If you think Dancing Brave was greatest race horse ever, then you have a lot to learn. By the way, I think Sea The Stars was superior to Dancing Brave full stop - times or no times.
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
@ThefightingCelt As regards STS's iyo 2 o/s performances, the Arc was probably his best effort but actually rates a long way behind true all time greats. As for the Eclipse STS was all out to hold off RVW and only did so after Kinane waived his whip in RVW's face as he closed to half a length causing RVW to flinch then jink to his left. RVW has gone on to overall look very ordinary.
Newworldman66 1 year ago
@Newworldman66 Sea The Stars broke the Eclipse record when he won. Of course he had to put up a "stellar" performance. He actually quickened again ( not just staying on ) when Rip Van Winkle challenged him. RVW is essentially a speed horse and was ridden that day to do, if you like, a Dancing Brave on STS. But even AOB conceded that they had simply come up against the best horse in the last 30 years. Kinane didn't his whip in RVW's face. Johnny Murtagh said he had been beaten by a "monster."
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
@Newworldman66, he is claiming that on another thread.
147ard 1 year ago
@ThefightingCelt ,JESUS CHRIST, papa dickhead said the exact same thing before he went away, what a load of nonsense, Papa also was praised STS in place of SB just before he left, just give it up.
147ard 1 year ago
@147ard Well then, great minds must think alike ! You really are quite thick. Now, jog on or join the Racing Forum, and share your deluded thoughts about your anal fixation with Dancing Brave to people who actually know what they are talking about when it comes to horse racing. I find this papa stuff hilarious. You think him to be me ! Paranoid or what ? You really do need treatment. You should also refrain from all this name calling as it shows you up for the uneducated chav you are.
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
@147ard Quite ingenious though isn't it - voting for yourself multiple times and then bombarding the board with posts to prevent people from scrolling down to see what was becoming a potentially tricky situation ?. It's funny that MrPapaBill was also from Scotland and was also anal about STS and Brigadier Gerard. What's he going to use for his next disguise - a plastic moustache ?
zarakhast 1 year ago
@zarakhast Spot on there mate. He has always prefered horses that don't have Dancing Brave in the name and horses that finished much slower.
147ard 1 year ago
@147ard LOL Get a life, you little sad act.
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
@ThefightingCelt Please realise that to give a thumbs up you need to have an account on here and sign in, you say its your friends giving you 62 thumbs up to your comment, if that is the case why do they never leave comments. Very odd indeed.
147ard 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@147ard We all think you are very odd ... indeed !
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
@147ard They only logged in order to wind one person up - that is Zarakahast , Newworldman and YOU aka THE ANAL RETENTIVE NEUROTIC / PSYCHOTIC with the Dancing Brave fixation. ps See a shrink ! lol
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
@ThefightingCelt Let me get this straight, you have friends that give you a thumbs up and they never leave comments on any race. You seem to be digging yourself into a black hole. Everyone on here here knows it's you with different accounts. I didn't realise that friends came in the shape of laptops. I eagerly wait for your next pile of banta. 9 seconds lol
147ard 1 year ago 6
@147ard Listen arsehole, you are the only one digging the hole. So keep on digging. Who is everyone ? You and your other identity - zarakhast ? As I said, you are totally wrong. I have been reading some of those old posts. Reading between the lines, I think papabill was Tarogan. But so what. The common theme which runs through all your/zarakhast's posts is that any person who holds a different opinion to you is targeted for abuse. Now, why would that be ? Is it because you're a little tosser ?
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
@ThefightingCelt someone is gettin very angry on here, it's too obvious who you are to me. I would stop the swearing on here if i were you.
147ard 1 year ago
@147ard Phone the Samaritans mate. It's never too late. I am far from angry. The anger is all yours. I am simply bemused by your false accusations and needless pestering. You have completely lost the plot. One thing idiots like you hate is being proved wrong. You are an attention seeker, and for whatever nefarious reason, you persist in making a fool of yourself in your futile efforts to denigrate me. Isn't it odd that no one else seems to share your misguided and paranoid views.
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
@ThefightingCelt not 1 but 3 people on here think your papabill. Please explain how biggtims comment went from 123 thumbs up down to zero just after you joined. Did it take 9 seconds. lolololol. I bet your gonna start swearing again? LETS BANTA or are you still in da nile (long river)lololol. My sides are sore with laughter Papacelt.
147ard 1 year ago
@147ard These imaginary people are ALL YOU. You have a serious problem. Seek help !
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
@147ard PapaCelt once worked for the Samaritans but was sacked after his first 5 calls committed suicide. 2 of them were wrong numbers.
Newworldman66 1 year ago
@Newworldman66 The bloke is a nutcase with a vendetta. He likes to think of himself as the "authority" on horse racing and wants to bully everyone into accepting his point of view.
zarakhast 1 year ago
@Newworldman66 spot on.
147ard 1 year ago
@147ard His writing style, his dirty tactics, his abusiveness, his hatred of Dancing Brave - it's all far too much of a coincidence. I mean is it really likely that two different people would independently accuse you, me and Neworldman of being the same person ? And 60 thumbs up for ANY post on a horse racing video from 24 yrs ago - is that really likely ?
?
zarakhast 1 year ago
@zarakhast i know its obvious who he is but i doubt he'll ever admit it.
147ard 1 year ago
@147ard Apparently we (you, me and Newworldman) are the same person according to ThefightingCelt. MrPapaBill also repetitively made the same claim. He was also obsessed with Sea The Stars and Brigadier Gerard. This bloke is an open book. If he has an opinion why can't he express it a bit more humbly ? Instead of that he feels the need to cheat to get his own way. He can't bear losing an argument either. He always has to have the last word.
zarakhast 1 year ago
@zarakhast i agree, he was and is a very hostile person who loves to pick holes in DB ability, he also makes lots of nonsense up, his attempt to say that DB split times were beaten was rediculous, he stated STS ran a furlong in under 9 seconds. He also had quotes from the racing post that i could never find, so they were obviously made up.
147ard 1 year ago
@147ard Hostile. Nah ! Papa Bill ? Definitely nah ! Spell ridiculous correctly and I might take you seriously. Dancing Brave was a great horse. Not the best though.
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
@zarakhast No, I said you are also Newworldman - and I stick by that. No one, not even you, can be as stupid as 147ard. However, you are nevertheless blighted by association.
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
@ThefightingCelt If i am stupid then your 9 second comment makes you look very intelligent. lol
147ard 1 year ago
@ThefightingCelt Newworldman and I and 147ard are three separate people, I can assure you of that. And the other two know more about horse racing than I do. But someone was cheating here - thumbing up your blatantly anti-DB posts to a frankly unbelievable level. And your remarks are so reminiscent of our old friend MrPapaBill's it's uncanny. He was also good at turning on the charm when circumstances called for it. So pull the other one. Either you're MrPapaBill or you're his parrot.
zarakhast 1 year ago
@zarakhast Well, well, well, the anal retentive returns - one third of the multi-personality, whose adoration of one horse and adherence to the " none better than Dancing Brave, and if you say so I'll/we'll stamp my/our feet " dogma, has blinded him from ny sense of reasoning or rationale. If my comments are similar to some bloke whom I do not know, then it is mere coincidence. I never thumbed up any posts, so you are totally and utterly misguided, as you are about who you believe me to be.
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
@ThefightingCelt Well explain then where you got this idea from that 147ard, Newworldman and myself (zarakhast) are the same person ? That was MrPapaBill's rather puerile attempt at humour. Are you just copying him ? Are you a relative or friend, continuing to fight his corner for him after he felt he had to "retire" ? Or are you simply MrPapaBill ? And how did you manage to get 60+ thumbs up for one of your lamest ever posts ? Your attempts at diplomacy don't convince me.
zarakhast 1 year ago
@zarakhast I don't need to explain anything to you. But for the sake of humouring you, I'll offer you this by way of reply. I find it odd, that's all, that you, Newworldman and the intellectually challenged piece of the anal retentive jigsaw ( 147ard of thinking ! ) think alike, post similar attacks, accusations etc and reply in the same maner regarding my opinions on Dancing Brave - i.e. child like ranting because it counters your views on the horse . Coincidence ? I think not. Now, jog on.
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
@zarakhast there was also a comment by Bigttim that had 120 thumbs up that was slandering Papabill, just after celt joined it went down to zero, very odd indeed. Who on earth would do something like that.?lol
147ard 1 year ago
@147ard Very, very odd ! I'm waiting for his next tactic. He could try just being honest and admitting that he tried it on but I've got a feeling that that's not one of his options.
zarakhast 1 year ago
Comment removed
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
@147ard You ?
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
Comment removed
HereWeGoAgain595 1 year ago
I recently joined a skiing forum. We conducted a poll to establish which skiers were best known among the non-skiing public. Eddie The Eagle came out top, with Franz Klammer sliding in a distant second. Klammer was an excellent skier but lacked the rugged good looks of Italy's Alberto Tomba.
zarakhast 1 year ago
@zarakhast Join The Racing Forum. You seem to think you know a bit about horse racing. Personally, I think you know fuck all.
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
That's what you call a turn of foot. Sea The Stars never produced anything to compare with that. The only horses which might genuinely lay a claim to being better than DB are : Sea Bird, Ribot and Secretariat. Sea The Stars was a big, lumbering animal which lacked the lightness of foot which would be required to mark him out as a true great. If a horse can't sustain it's top speed for more than six or seven seconds then it's certainly not a great horse.
zarakhast 1 year ago
@zarakhast Nonsense - Utter Nonsense !
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
@ThefightingCelt 59 thumbs up for an utterly pointless post ? How many computers have you got, MrPapaBill ? It was only a few months ago that you were getting 59 thumbs down !
Nijinsky is better known by the "non-racing public" of today as a dancer, not as a horse. To mention Shergar is pointless : everyone knows about Shergar. You're showing your age.
zarakhast 1 year ago
@zarakhast Grow up mate. I'm not MrPapabill. End of ! If anything, you are 147ard.
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
@zarakhast Sea The Stars would piss all over Dancing Brave and any other horse of the last 30 years.
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
@ThefightingCelt, so STS would of beaten shergar in his Derby, Montjeu in his KG and DB in his Arc, i think not. Also why have the experts rated STS 6lbs below DB? Are you on the old banta again?
147ard 1 year ago
@147ard Yes, yes and yes ! : )
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
people are blinded by nostalgia, they never want to see their heroes of yesteryear surpassed but sometimes they are and thats just the way it is!!people are talking about his record, sts has a better record, db never even won a derby, bad ride or not, great horses always find a way to win!!he wasnt impressive in this race either, the 2nd was coming back at him at the line!!great horse but not the greatest!sea the stars new king of the track!!wouldve beat db at any distance!!!
ilikewavingatbuses 1 year ago
how come no ones mentioned the very underrated lamtarra
cuzzy1965 1 year ago
Papabill is back under a new name.
147ard 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Most non racing fans, if asked to name a famous flat racehorse, would probably name Shergar, followed by Nijinsky. Dancing Brave was a brilliant horse on his day, but on looks he was very average looking - parrot mouthed and lean, he hardly had the majestic looks of a Sir Ivor, Nijinsky or Sea The Stars.
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
@ThefightingCelt, i disagree, the Brave could cover ground faster than Shergar and Nijinsky at the end of any distance, DB furlong records stand to this day. So are you the new Papabill?
147ard 1 year ago
Comment removed
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
@ThefightingCelt That's rubbish. Most people would name Shergar, because he was kidnapped and made into dogmeat ; Red Rum because he won the National three times ; Desert Orchid because he was brilliant and grey. But it doesn't really matter what people think, it only matters which the best horse was. And that was Dancing Brave. Sea The Stars, Nijinsky, Sir Ivor - Nashwan would have beaten all of them. And DB would have beaten Nashwan : the best turn of foot makes all the difference.
zarakhast 1 year ago
@zarakhast said, " doesn't really matter what people think - It only matters what the best horse is ? " Oh is that right ? It only matter what you think, is that it ? Explain your logic please - in view of the explanation given as to why some horses are more popular with the public than others, regardless of ability - i'm slightly bemused to say the least. You have no way of discerning whether any great horse from one era could have beaten one from another era, so why bother ?
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
So why bother trying to claim that Shergar and Nijinsky are better known than, e.g. Dancing Brave ? Shergar is better known, but not because of his racing achievements (great though they were, and I, too, am a fan), but Nijinsky isn't : that was 40 years ago ! How is the "non-racing public" going to know about Nijinsky (the horse) 40 years on when they're not even bothered about racing ? No more anti-Dancing Brave stuff please. Your post was pointless : how did it get so much support ?
zarakhast 1 year ago
@zarakhast Get a life man. Where have I posted anything anti-dancing brave ? Why would I ? Fantastic racehorse, if a bit on the ugly side. If I do post an opinion that differs from you - just deal with it and don't dictate what I can and cannot post. The subject of famous racehorses cropped up on the Racing Forum. Most of our members ( all ages ) agreed that if you asked the non racing fan to name a famous flat race horse most would say Shergar followed by Nijinsky. NH Red Rum and Arkle
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
@ThefightingCelt "Fantastic racehorse, if a bit on the ugly side" - ha ha ! But how can a racing forum decide what the non-racing public might think ? And I forgot about Arkle , though I reckon that because Desert Orchid is more recent he would be better known by the non-racing public. Anyway, silly conversation over. I'm sure you know an awful lot about horse racing and good luck to you. And I'm relieved you're not Mr.PapaBill.
zarakhast 1 year ago
@zarakhast The Racing Forum did not decide - it was based on what they asked friends who don't have any interest in horse-racing. A bit like asking someone to name a very famous footballer. Again, most would answer Pele or Maradona. The Racing Post asked its readers to vote for their favourite racehorse - not what they thought was the best. They received votes from all over the UK and Ireland. Thousands voted. Arkle came top - even though he last ran in 1966. Top flat horse was Brigadier Gerard
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
@ThefightingCelt The answer's obvious then : sack the handicappers and appoint the non-racing public in their place.
zarakhast 1 year ago
@zarakhast That was an idiotic and stupid response. Try reading the post in front of you. It was about favourite horses, NOT which ones they thought were best. For example, Lord Oaksey said his FAVOURITE ever horse was the chaser, Pas Seul, although he said Arkle was by far the best he'd seen. Dancing Brave, your favourite I believe, came 8th on the list of FAVOURITE horses.
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
@ThefightingCelt Your 62 thumbs up post (I'm sure I'm making it even more popular) wasn't about racing fans' favourite horses, it was about horses that people without an interest in horse racing had heard of. It was designed to disparage Dancing Brave in a suspiciously MrPapaBill-esque manner. I just thought I'd point out to you and all your devoted supporters that it is a) a pointless post, and b) almost certainly not true in any case.
zarakhast 1 year ago
@zarakhast Get a life mate. Though it is encouraging to know so many people agree with me. What is all this about Dancing Brave - a horse who last ran 24 years ago. Did you once shag Dancing Brave, is that what is. I'll bet you're a geek.
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
@zarakhast The 60+ thumbs up for Papa Celt is fake. It's easy to do but only sad cases indulge themselves this way.
Newworldman66 1 year ago
@Newworldman66 Sad cases post to themselves ! This papa guy has nothing to to with me. Now get a grip. That bloke must have got right under your skin.
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
@ThefightingCelt Papa Celt you protest your innocence too much!
Lets have a look at the evidence. Papa Bill throws in the towel. A few months later Thefightingcelt appears. A number of posts unfavourable to Papa Bill immediately become 'be displayed' only and an anti DB post by you has 60+ thumbs up in no time - clearly fake votes made by you.
You make the same points as Papy in the same style and respond with the same irritability and flippancy when challenged along with the same accusations.
Newworldman66 1 year ago
@Newworldman66 You deluded fool. Wrong ! Wrong and wrong again. You seem such an ANAL character, Zarakhast - oh yes, for Zarakhast is who you are. Bet you won't own up to that, Mr. psychology student. pmsl. No idea who this papabill guy was but, sounds as if he has annoyed you sufficiently to elicit such anger. I wish he would return ( or maybe he's dead - or Taroqan ? : / ) and get me off the hook - for I don't know how much more of these false insinuations I can take. : (
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
@ThefightingCelt Anger? There's no anger in any of my posts. If you read them as angry then you must be applying your own angry inflection. Surely only someone with a disposition prone to anger would do that?
Newworldman66 1 year ago
@Newworldman66 No, on the contrary, Zarakhast ; you don't mind if refer to you by your other moniker - be a good chap and refrain from of your pseudo psychological tendencies, if you please. We are discussing horse racing here. Besides, it doesn't wash with me - and trying to employ reverse psychology is the last refuge of the desperately inadequate. ; )
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
@ThefightingCelt Merely pointing out your error and suggesting why you would have made such an error is not by any stretch reverse psychology. For someone to think that it is would surely be a much better example of inadequacy.
Newworldman66 1 year ago
@Newworldman66, spot on mate, i've clocked onto him as well, there was a comment that had 125 thumbs up which was swearing at Papa, then it went down rapidly after Papacelt joined again, its now 60 plus for a comment saying DB is lean mouthed on his KG. Also every comment he replies to me gets a thumbs up. My conclusion is that Papacelt has 5 accounts or computers and loves BANTA.
147ard 1 year ago
@147ard What a moron ! Your conclusion is like your spelling ! Banta ????
I am NOT this papabill fella, For the love of god, get a fkn grip, would you. I checked him out. Fromw hat I see, he was a big Sea Bird fan. Before my time matey. I like Sea The Stars. So give it a rest.
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
...Coincidence? I think not.
Guilty as charged!
Johnnie Cochran with the Chewbacca defence couldn't get you off!
Newworldman66 1 year ago
@Newworldman66 Good man Zarakahast ! Takes a big man to admit that he has more than one account. Try to get Dancing Brave out your system and stick to Dostoevsky. Might suggest " The Idiot " ; )
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
@ThefightingCelt What the hell has a horse's "looks" got to do with anything ???
zarakhast 1 year ago
Dancing Brave was a freak who most experts agree had the speed to win a July Cup yet genuinely stayed 1M4F, all this cross generational thing makes good debate and if you think back to those great holidays you've had they are just that...you forget about the sunstroke, the arguments as we have a knack of making history perfect and making it better than it was..Sea The Stars was awesome but Dancing Brave was a sexy horse (you know what i mean!) and that's why this speedball freak is so treasured.
Kingmole2008 1 year ago
@Kingmole2008 I think it depends on which generation you belong to, although If you asked non racing fans across the generations to name a famous flat racehorse, most would probably say Shergar, followed by Nijinsky. Those two seem to be the most well known.
ThefightingCelt 1 year ago
1. Dancing Brave
2. Sea Bird
3. Nijinsky
4. Brigadier Gerard
5. Shergar
6. Zarkava
7. Miesque
8. Sea the stars
9. Oh so sharp
10. Mill reef
bigttim1 1 year ago
martinh103 1 year ago
RIBOT should be above all of them.
sewageable 1 year ago
testing
zarakhast 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
It would seem that PapaBill has taken his bat and ball home.
Newworldman66 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Maybe the cunt has died lol. Who gives a fuck about him hahaha.
bigttim1 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
MrPapa Fucking Bell end why don't you just fuck off and die you fucking knob
bigttim1 2 years ago
2:24 = razzmatazz.
zarakhast 2 years ago
Best turn of foot of all the greats. All other things being equal, therefore the greatest. And if he wasn't the greatest he was the most stylish and dramatic. Sea The Stars was boring in every race he won.
zarakhast 2 years ago
STS was boring??......He looked a bit bored alright,.....he was takin the piss outta the other horses........STS= monster
HighChapparral 2 years ago
@HighChapparral Dancing Brave was a fair bit better than his opponents here - better than the 3/4 length he won by. Eddery admitted that he brought him too early here, though he also said that he hadn't been told that DB tended to idle in front. DB was at least 3L better than anything here. STS had a turn of foot which petered out in a matter of seconds. It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if STS had been asked to go for the line over a furlong out.
zarakhast 1 year ago
Sea The Stars would have laughed at Dancing Brave.
MrPapaBill 2 years ago
Are you on fucking drugs you fanny. You can;t be right in the head you twat
bigttim1 2 years ago
Sea The Stars was shit : the worst horse ever. And Sea Bird II was the second worst. Stick that in your big fat pipe and smoke it.
zarakhast 2 years ago
What a deluded and childish prick you are.
Grow up for ffs.
MrPapaBill 2 years ago
Read over your own posts again and then look in the mirror. "I am the authority round here", etc. etc.
zarakhast 2 years ago
Compared to your pithy and purile remarks - and unresearched and ill informed diatribes, I most certainly am an authority.
You keep saying I do not rate DB.
Pin your earholes back for once - I DO !
I just don't rate him as high as you do. THAT is the difference and as it happens, your only real bone of contention.
Either accept my opinion or don't - but do not attempt to put words in my mouth or foist your obsessions onto me.
MrPapaBill 2 years ago
Look, if I were obsessed with Dancing Brave I'd be posting on these videos every day - and I don't.
As it happens I don't accept your opinions. You know that already.
One minute you claim to rate DB, though not as the best ; the next, you draw comparisons between him and other horses which make him sound like a selling plater !
You can't pin earholes back, btw. Only ears.
zarakhast 2 years ago
You are obsessed. Not only with Dancing Brave but by what I have to say. In your world, everything must fit snugly into THE box you have made - metaphorically speaking.I have said on many occasion that Dancing Brave was a class act. I BACKED him many times, a comment I have made numerous times but needless to say, this YOU CHOOSE to IGNORE. I reiterate, I backed him in all his 3 year old races - even in THAT bloody Derby and in THAT American race. However, I rate a select few above him - ok !
MrPapaBill 2 years ago
This is my favourite horse and maybe also my favourite race, because this was Shahrastani vs. Dancing Brave part 2. .The way DB accelerates away from the others here is exhilarating. Pardon me, but I never saw Sea The Stars produce anything as spectacular.
I haven't failed to notice any of the things you've said - some of them being fair. You exaggerate though when it suits your purposes. I'd like to hear your top 10 middle distance horses in order, and why. Would Theatrical be in there ?
zarakhast 2 years ago
Now you're just trying to ingratiate yourself with people who haven't read earlier posts. You make it sound as if you'd been a Dancing Brave fan all along : backed him in every race and so on. You''re trying to butter people up so that in a short while you can present your arguments, which some of us are already acquainted with, against Dancing Brave and for Brigadier Gerard, Sea Bird II, Sea The Stars etc.
zarakhast 2 years ago
Go away you sad little arsehole.I have no need to butter anyone up. I had already said in earlier posts that I had backed DB in these races ; however, because I did so, it did not blind me to the fact that he was not the greatest racehorse ever. In fact, you only backed him in one race the Arc, as you admitted. Seems a bit starnge you should be preaching to your elders and ones who were there from the beginning of the horse's career.Btw, The horses you mention were superior to Dancing Brave.
MrPapaBill 2 years ago
Eddery said that Dancing Brave's run had to be timed correctly - or else he idled in front.
Sea The Stars, also idled when hitting the front, but would quicken again when challenged.
MrPapaBill 2 years ago
If I have seen any horse to beat Sea The Stars it's The Brave. In anything other than a very fast run race I think it would be very close. But not on a left handed track!!
Pactrolus 2 years ago
Do you think this was a fast run race?
frankschlanker 2 years ago
It looked fast but that doesn't mean anything, does it. Don't know the time and can't remember the state of the ground on the day. I just think that if The Brave hadn't played his hand and was within a length of STS in the final half furlong his blitzing finish would win the day. That is, of course, unless the pace was so furious he had nothing left in which case STS would out stay him.
Pactrolus 2 years ago
If I told you Petoski ran it 2 seconds faster then you'd be speechless right? Petoski is widely regarded as one of the worst winners of the KG ever but he probably beat the best field ever!! I love watching top class animals race and personally I dont think theres much between DB and STS.Two fantastic colts who carried all before them!! Fantastic
frankschlanker 2 years ago
As I hinted the state of the ground over 12 furlongs could account for the 2 seconds, and more. Besides, Oh So Sharp was unlucky to get beat by Petoski. She didn't get the run of the race on the day and I think it's just that un-predictable factor which would decide the the DB v STS issue. I fear it will be another 20 years before we see their like again, if we are lucky!
Pactrolus 2 years ago
Well lets hope we are eh?
frankschlanker 2 years ago
Sea the stars is one of the greats but he would never have lived with the braves turn of foot as good as Sea the stars is.
bigttim1 2 years ago
I think you are right. I have never seen a horse with a finish like The Brave and, you know what, I don't think anyone else has either!
Pactrolus 2 years ago
Most students would be sleeping when Dancing Brave was racing, as they were when Sea The Stars was racing !
MrPapaBill 2 years ago
Just watched his Eclipse win again and watched this and in both races after he quickens up he always seems to hang to the right.
frankschlanker 2 years ago
Shardari was a 4 year old in this race wasnt he? Dancing Braves turn of foot was very much instant in this race probably his best turn of foot in his career.Notice how he hangs to the right after he's quickened up and Eddery goes for the whip almost instantly.The first 3 home in this race were in the first 5 home in the Arc.I dont think Petoski raced again after this race.
frankschlanker 2 years ago
And that, my friends, was over 12f - which Dancing Brave "didn't stay". Not a bad performance considering ... He'd have won the Leger in my opinion. He was so good. I've yet to hear a decent argument against Dancing Brave's claims to be the best of all time. You don't see speed like that, produced over almost any distance, every year. Nijinsky won over further but he never showed a turn og foot like that. Look at the way DB goes away from them and then consider the records of the other horses.
zarakhast 2 years ago
Nijinsky was never really asked to do more than win his race and then Lester pulled him up.He's one of the few Montjeu being another who werent asked to extend in their King George and won hard held.Sure enough DB pulls away but Shardari is reeling him in at the end.Makes you wonder why Swinburn stuck with Shahrastani after his awful showing in this race,in the Arc??
frankschlanker 2 years ago
Shardari is definitely underrated. He was right there at the end in the '86 Arc as well. If you took Dancing Brave out of this race how good would Shardari have looked ? A very good horse.
zarakhast 2 years ago
Shadari was reeling him in at the end because Pat got there too soon. A better timed run in the Arc and he was still going away from the same horses.
Pactrolus 2 years ago
It would be an interesting poll, which might be targeted at students - since students study f*ck all these days in the name of the advancement of knowledge - : Which is the most exciting horse you've ever seen ? Which is the one that really floated your young, artistic, idealistic boat ? And was it the best horse, or only the most exciting ? MrPapaBill would not be allowed to vote, because a) he's too old, and b) he exaggerates too much.
zarakhast 2 years ago
Mate most current students weren't born when the Brave was racing ;o(
frankschlanker 2 years ago
Click" ignore !
MrPapaBill 2 years ago
Seek help !
MrPapaBill 2 years ago
Are you talking to yourself ?
zarakhast 2 years ago
PS - Sea The Stars doesn't come into the same category. For all his wins and for all his versatiltiy he had the charisma of Wayne Rooney throughout. His turn of foot was just DULL : DULL, DULL, DULL.
zarakhast 2 years ago