Joseph, Constructor, Athena, Mystery Cults, Forms vs Deities

[MrNightlyProductions]

Xororoaster thanks for all the work you are doing thus far. I have seen you have studied a lot on this subject and a recent Evangelical gave me this site discussing the dating of the 4 NT gospels.

carm.org/when-were-gospels-wri­tten-and-by-whom

Would be interested in seeing some refutation of this because they do give good reasons supporting their theories. Specifically the Matthew quote in Ignatius pointing to an early date for that text.

[MisterBoswell]

Sorry to nit pick, this was another good video, but this is the 2nd time I've heard you say Serapion, when the context makes it sound you mean Serapis, no?

[Xoroaster]

@MisterBoswell Yep, Serapis. Thanks for the correction. I don't know where I picked up Serapion. ;-D

[MisterBoswell]

@Xoroaster Ah, okay, i thought so. Yeah, I just wanted to make sure since Serapion is also the name of a few writers of antiquity, and also the temples to Serapis, if I recall correctly, were called Serapion as well. So no biggie, the confusion is understandable.

[InvincibleIronyMan]

I just found another interesting looking resource at archive.org, called the Ante-Nicene Christian Library: Translations of the Writings of the Fathers Down to A.D. 325 (1869). I'd put in a link if I could, but a search will bring it up.

[InvincibleIronyMan]

I'd just like to point out for anyone who's interested that the works of Philo Judaeus are available at archive.org for free, translated by Charles Duke Yonge.

[InvincibleIronyMan]

I haven't been this enthralled by such far out theology since I read VALIS by Philip K. Dick. I was never sure he was a trustworthy source, however as he seemed more than a little bit unhinged. He claimed to be a Valentinian gnostic, I'd love to have a reference to find out more about that.

[Xoroaster]

@InvincibleIronyMan I haven't heard of that book. I'll see if I can get ahold of it. I ran into a "self-proclaimed" Valentinian recently, and I found the same problem that I find with all versions of Christianity. They ignore certain aspects, in exchange for whatever they want to believe. It's a very complicated theology, and dumbing it down makes little sense. 

[InvincibleIronyMan]

You have a great, characterful face. I'm just looking at your expressions in the thumbnails and trying to guess what you were talking about when they were taken.

[Xoroaster]

@InvincibleIronyMan lol, thank you! ;-D

[Requiemxtoxinnocence]

So before the schism caused by martin luther, how much of a schism was there in the early church? And who decided what went into the bible, I know they had the nicean creed but there must have been something previous to that right, like an order of power.

[Xoroaster]

@Requiemxtoxinnocence I should do a video on this subject. The earliest "schism" would be around 120CE with Marcion. And it was followed up almost immediately with Valentinianism. When Irenaeus speaks in 185CE, he lists dozens of "heretic" religions. It's more a matter of did "orthodoxy" exist, than "schisms." Because it doesn't appear that there existed a "majority" Christian religion before 185CE.

[Requiemxtoxinnocence]

@Xoroaster It's amazing, its like christianity started out as many different cults, formed for a few centuries then schismed when luther came along. I guess christianity is really more or less a combination of faiths in certain doctrines combined and then splits off again.

[deepashtray]

Thank you. I was wondering about Athena because I had heard that the popularity of the Virgin Mary in the Roman Catholic Church was due in large part because she personified or even replaced the fertility/female deities.

[Jaybird196]

Thank you, Xoro, for answering this question for me :) . I'd been wondering about Joseph, but he doesn't get much play in Christendom. Mary and Jesus kinda get all the fame.

[Xoroaster]

@Jaybird196 They do get all the fame. YHWH is always in the background of this thing. I think that goes back to the original birth story, where Jesus was birthed from Sophia. A lot of the later tradition maintains that Jesus was born in relative position to Sophia, with little or no direct connection to YHWH.

[KnownNoMore]

wholly apart from their roots I mean. Im refering only to "modern" christianity

[KnownNoMore]

I dont really see how Forms fit in with the trinity, and then I mean the main orthodox version of it in which father, son and spirit are the 3 personalities of the same deity? I would actually say that platonism and orthodox christianity dont seem to mix

[Xoroaster]

@KnownNoMore So, you're saying that the modern "god" has a personality disorder? ;-D

Yeah, they try to keep it as nebulous as possible. But Pneuma, Logos, Phos, Sophia, Pistis, and all the other Forms are spoken of at length in the early theologies. I suppose three personalities would explain why he's so erratic in the OT, having a Jesus with the Spirit descending upon him, with YHWH saying how "pleased" he was with his son, doesn't sound like one deity. ;-D

[Rockland19621947]

I have an 1800's book of Josephus and I know most will say it was tampered with but have found out some interesting reading in this book...Actually he talks like he knows more than he is writing...Like people should come back down to earth and look at reality :)

[gettingolder2]

OK, now that you explained all of that, how can anyone even consider, any truth that there is a god? My brother is a Preacher, so I know he has studied the bible. Can I have him declared Insane? What do you think? I think I should at least try to get him some help.