Widor's Toccata at Notre Dame

[H30ea]

sound quality is terrible and it's played too slow

[Mrphilharmonic]

There is a magnificent recording (DVD) of Diane Bish (of "Joy of Music" fame) and SIMON PRESTON (of Westminster Abbey fame) playing this piece as a DUET (TWO organs) and it's totally brilliant. Somewhere in Florida I think.

[Mrphilharmonic]

How many of you know that Charles Marie Widor (the composer of this piece) was actually the organist of Notre Dame? AND he was BLIND!!!

[milesginn]

C'est Olivier Latry organiste titulaire a Notre-Dame de Paris je crois.

[crustylion321]

Did you record this with a toaster? Video quality sucks but sound quality is actually good

[marianne0411]

Excusez-moi de redemander qui est l'organiste qui joue dans cet extrait ? Je ne parle pas anglais suffisamment pour vous poser la question dans cette langue...

[jutescrim]

but no double thump at thw end!

[marianne0411]

Who is this organist  ?

[jutescrim]

@marianne0411 GOD

[railfanatic844]

OH NO! so greatly performed and a mistake at the end, that's a shame

[SergioBonf]

Tempo, instrument, crystal clear execution.

Splendid.

Thank you for sharing this with us.

Sergio

Italy

[Warringtonian58]

The most important stop on any organ is the building !!

[allezach]

I believe the church itself dictates the pace you can play this piece. The reason it is played (properly) so slowly at N.D. is that the resonance time of the space would make a flashy fast pace all muddy.

[Theliturgist]

@allezach Yes, the church does play an important part in deciding the tempo. However, in smaller churches, it is still aesthetically pleasing to play at a tempo where most of the notes can be heard blending together. I agree that ND is a place where a quick tempo would render this piece muddy because of the size, but I have played this piece in a smaller church in a slower tempo with excellent results.

[jutescrim]

Please someone download this rendition.....it has to be the greatest. I know, I've been there

[squiresuzuki]

Wait, so how do you come to play such an organ? I doubt this is one of the organists at Notre dame.... can you just go and play it?

[yokurt]

@squiresuzuki i doubt so. i heard that the church aint very open about people giving recitals on the organ. its more reserved for church events.

[jazzkeyboardman]

D'OH!!!! To get through this warhorse of a piece and make a mistake at the FRICKIN' END.....!!!!!!

[jutescrim]

This is shear power, but nothing else

[Geersification]

We have a 1911 Wicks opus 56 in our Church St. Rose of Lima Quincy, Illinois

we restored this fine electro-pneumatic, with the original blower 1898 and its hand pump too.

[SergioBonf]

@Geersification I would love to see it...

My next trip to USA...

[stargroove4]

I'm stunned. Awesome work.

[juaniluco888]

whats so special about notre dame organ is the power of the reeds and the solo of the pedals. But I did I did not hear the 32' register til the last chord of the clip.

[yttreblemaker]

With all that sound and the reverb of that old building mistakes can go unnoticed... Nice to hear that piece on the machine I believe it was intended for.

[MrsAlexisClyde]

I heard the mistake, but it didn't really sound horrible at all in my opinion.

[MrsAlexisClyde]

I might say that it was Olivier Latry. But this is a little slower than the tempo in which he plays the Toccata. So that leaves two options. And I don't know the Names of the other two Titulairs.

[2010thevoice]

I heard the mistake. It was a 7th chord instead of a major

[fiziks2447]

Absolutely wonderful

[septemfuku]

at the right end,

x: deeeeeeeeeeeeeh

o: dech, deeeeeeeeh

[lionelmercier]

I cant hear anything of the mistake.

[lewi39]

i heard this play by mr shin on the organ off the melbourne townhall in australia 9200 pipes an louder than this fantastic organ

[emilewyn]

Love the tempo! Not so rushed as many organists tend to play it!

[danenhod]

terrible sound quality

[flash2368]

What do you expect, he said he recorded it on his mobile phone... amazing quality if you take that into consideration

[magnaliberatio]

I do agree. Modern ( rock & techno ) music has caused most of our contemporaries to think that music should always be played at least vivace. This is Lento Maestoso, which is perfect

a) for this piece of music

b) this particular organ

c) this incredible, hallowed place that is Notre Dame

In short: grandissima performanza !!

[friedrichsacher]

To all low-tempo-haters: I think this is a really good tempo. I am also playing it like that! In that way you can hear EVERY single note. Not just a mess of notes somewhere! Good performance!!!!!! I hate people that are playing it that horrible fast. It doesnt mean that you are a professional if you can play it faster!!!!

[starbreez3]

@friedrichsacher Indeed, couldn't say more, there are so many versions of this on youtube and they're all filled with a ridiculous rushed tempo, makes us feel like 'ok what he's doing? randomnly touching the keys?' because there is no melody, it's just exactly what you said, just a mess of notes.

[chris21hope]

I've sat in the organ loft with Olivier Latry playing during a Vespers service, and trust me, this tempo is not too slow considering the acoustical environment!

[LINKthePIRATE913]

that organ is wicked, love it :)

[3NUNS]

@LINKthePIRATE913 ... the wicked shall go down to Hell ...

[Nikorgan]

Yes, indeed he plays slowly in comparison to every other versions we can hear on youtube. But, actually when Widor composed this magnificient piece, the tempo was slower and designed to give a majestic effect. It's only years after that he made some corrections, bringing the tempo at his actual level.

[iskenderuna]

The tempo was at first faster (118) and he later changed it to 100. I think both are valid depending on the player and the organ. Checkout Ben van Oosten on YT for a superb 100 version. This one here is way under 100 - I would say 80sumthing - and that IS slow. Nevertheless the piece is so great that every tempo reveals things I had never heard before. I find it fascinating.

[howden123456]

yes you are right! everybody plays it to slow it goes at quiet a lick!

[biografmand]

I am almost in shock. The tempo of this magnificent piece of music is too slow.

Never heard it that slow.

[coloradosparkyred2]

I will say that it is rather slow...however the Notre dame is such a large building that if the organist wants the audience to hear every note he needs to slow it down otherwise there would be soooo much echo in that building its crazy

[tamiasthechipmunk]

Actually the organist played this work at the right tempo esp. for a reverberant space like Notre Dame. As complex as Widor's toccata is and considering the reverberation of the space, if the music were played too fast it would lose detail and result in a muddy sound. In spaces with dryer acoustics this piece would sound right played played at a faster tempo.

[Menrathorgan]

when you stay in that church , hearing that BOOOOMBASTIC sound in real , perhaps youll think different about the tempo ;) , just my experience

[Contratrombone64]

"funeral march" - I suggest you look at the music and see Widor's tempo indication before you show you're a complete moron by making stupid remarks.

[zerocurve]

Any particular reason this is being played at the speed of a funeral march!?

[stmickeycl]

Pity he didn't think to use the 32' reed for the recapitulation with the pedal. Or at least, I sure can't hear it.

[OPHYCLIDE]

Disagree. I've never really been a fan of 32' stops. Anything beyond a 16' seems unneccesary to me.

[Ophicleide4]

??? AGHHHHHHHHHHH!!

[cornophile91]

Think what you like, but being on stage with the organ 32's right behind you is an amazing experience.

[akarpowicz]

Thanks for posting - very impressive for a phone recording too.

[Bartokfriend]

What kind of cell do you have? very impressive

[FromHolbergsTime]

A grand sound and an inspired piece of musical splendor! The instrument sings in this unforgettable acoustic ambiance.

[cornophile91]

I love how the pedal comes out so well with the keyboard floating on top. It really gets the stately majesty of the piece across. The last chords just slide together with those pauses, it's really well done.

[Ropieroo]

Far beyond beautiful!

[AndreaPianoPlayer]

Forse è così che Widor intendeva la sua Toccata (diciamo la più conosciuta, poiché ne ha composte 2..). Francamente non capisco quelli che si ostinano a suonarla veloce, per esempio Diane Bish. Per cogliere le armonie di questa toccata è meglio che la si suoni così. Anche perché evidentemente l'acustica di Notre Dame ha un riverbero che dura più di cinque secondi, mi pare. Pure l'interpretazione di Ben Van Oosten è ottima a mio parere, al di sopra di tutte le altre, insuperabile.

[choirboy526]

Organ is the king/beast/master/lord

of all instruments

[32ContreBombarde]

I like the speed of it here doesn't get all mushed up like most do. I think of the pedal line as the melody anyhow. It's harder to play it slower than rush through it.

[iqi616]

Correct on all points. This is the sort of tempo Widor intended - lets the power build up. St Sulpice has unique acoustics.

Wow - just heard the final chords - listen to it bark! Excellent!

[AndrewOrgelspieler]

Yes, and the original manuscirpt clearly shows all manual notes to be played staccato.

So a fast tempo is not required to create excitement.

[Owdfolkie]

Thanks - this proves that the breakneck speed at which some people play the Toccata does not do it justice. CMW could not have played it fast at St Sulpice on the old tubular pneumatics!

[Organs1234]

I think the reeds used are slightly too heavy and slightly drown out the top part. but otherwise its amazing!

[boltonbrowne]

Oh, how I love the sound of Notre Dame's 32' Contra Ophecleide. xDD

[ds1868]

You mean 32' Bombarde boltonbrowne, the French do not like using German labels for their reeds!

[willowthebored]

What is this Ophicleide you speak of? I hear no Ophicleide. Bad man. Also, wasn't the Ophicleide Hill & Son's reed, not a German manufacturer?

[boltonbrowne]

Sorry, I meant Bombarde.

Bombarde and Ophicleide are both powerful 16' reeds - easy to get them confused.

I suppose the 32' reed is a Contra Bombarde then...

[JohnnyNW]

Moj Boze, how beautiful! Dzieki!

[pureLproductions]

So beautiful, I love the organ and even more the high vaulted ceilings of a cathedral.

[willowthebored]

You know, this doesn't sound like Latry to me. It has a lot more feeling than his performances usually do, and even though all the French titular organists seem to understand the temp concept this seems even slower, which is very nice with the resonance of the cathdral (and maybe I'm wrong, but it almost sounds like the registry choices are different, because Latry's recording sounds much less dark and full.)

[powerkites16]

wow!?!? thats recorded on your phone? thats pretty good quality for a phone. gre8t video bty...

[redtails]

I've seen phones recording 720p clips and take 6+megapixel photos :), it's a completely different age now

[marsvltor2]

You know - looking at the original Leduc edition, the 'double thump' is marked by such tiny appogiaturas that the whole thing could, by some, be taken as optional. And Widor himself, in his famous recording, smudged the affair by going half-and-half. Take a listen!

Regards

Paul :-)

[AllenOrganCrazy]

Hi Paul, What is the name of his recording? Jon

[marsvltor2]

AllenOrgan - sorry to take so long getting back to you. Widor's recording of the Toccata (and bits from the 'Gothique' symphonie, are regularly re-released by EMI. My own copy is from a French HMV LP set (Orgues & Organistes Francais en 1930), which also includes Tournemire, Vierne, Gigout, Dupre, and Bonnet actually playing. Stunning stuff. (C153-16411/5, released 1981). I have seen a CD containing not just the Widor, but Vierne, Dupre, and Messiaen also...take a look on the web...

[ReillyDieffenbach]

What an experience that must have been! Lucky lucky! The wildest and wooliest Cavaille Coll in existence, playing everyone's favorite.

[pierresmom3]

Sounds a little heavy. Dr. Carl Angelo in the US plays this to perfection.

[eat911t]

If that was a mobile phone, the audio is amazing. The organist is labouring a little; no doubt enjoying the resonance and registration, but makes the classic mistake of not applying the double chord at the end, and to my way of thinking, not holding the single high top 'F' note for long enough. Just my 2p from the UK.

[irkibby]

Sometimes the french do things well!

[animesis]

you want to be careful there! French cathedrals are well renowned ;) we dont want to upset anyone!

[irkibby]

yeah... but it's just... they are French

[qw3rtydud3]

That's very good quality for a camera phone!

Thanks for posting this, phenomenal instrument.

[lwnf360]

that IS some serious quality for a camera phone!

[AndreaPianoPlayer]

Fantastico. Sublime. E' emozionante ascoltare questa Toccata di Widor eseguita su un Cavaillé-Coll. Un suono inconfondibile...

[filouusa]

i totally agree with you people ! Only it is actually slower than the "original version". I went to a concert at Notre Dame and being french i just love it ! They made it slower tio increase the "resonnance" in the cathedral !!

[tomandsueh]

To jutescrim. I know the score has a "double pump" at the end but truthfully I, for one, prefer it played the way we hear it in this presentation. I have a CD from Norte Dame with Olivier Latry playing Widor Toccata and there is no double pump at the end of that recording either. Technically, I suppose, it should be played as written, but giving the performer some latitude, provides a much bolder finish without the double pump.

[advisorC101]

There is a ''double pump'' at the end only its done very fast about a 0.50 second delay just listen very carefully, Its most likely Olivier Latry playing this as it is the same on his recording but I think that the double pump is the best ending.

[riggser2007]

I love it!!

[jutescrim]

I assume this is the version played by Daniel Roth, the most powerful of all renditions, but perhaps a trifle stately. I would be grateful if someone would record the whole of this version on You Tube.

One criticism - no double thump on the last chord, clearly shown on the music score

[matt23071993]

since when is or has Daniel Roth ever been one of the three titulair at Notre Dame...the three people allowed to play the grand organ there...

i sang Widor's Mass there with both organs...

THAT WAS AN EXPERIENCE!

[lianni9181]

try midnight pipes with frederick hohman playing - excellent

[slinkybill3]

I just wish you had had two phones with you to record the whole thing!!! Fab :o)

[gamecrazy132]

that had such a big powerful sound dont u agree?

[JShobjj]

Very nice. I have heard this played on the Grand Organ at the Royal Albert Hall in London and it was superb.

[foodman27]

notre dame cathedral has a 1868 cavaille coll organ.the organ has a trompette en chamade horizontaly sticking out of the case.

[oakberry61woohalol]

A bit to loud! at the end but it is a lovely toccata Widor would be proud.

[ryanwfrederick]

Must be almost mesmerizing/moving to actually be in the room when they really let this beast loose...wow

[jutescrim]

For me the ultimte rendition of this piece of music was recorded and played by the celebrated French organist Daniel Roth on tne Organ of St. Sulpice, Paris - the sheer power and pace is trully magnificent and unsurpassed

I believe it was recorded on the CD - Widor: Complete Symphonies, Vol.5 on the Motette label. If anyone is intereested in hearing this please download to You Tube or advise me how I can

[2468HOTROD]

Thank you for this information. I love Daniel Roth and St. Sulpice. peace

[marsvltor2]

Agreed - but try and get the recording on tape or LP - the transfer to CD, in my view, missed the magic...

[markdtp]

There aren't enough postings of the Liverpool Cathedral organs here - PLEASE POST

[Tazeruk]

It's the organ of Notre-Dame de Paris...

[2468HOTROD]

Hey Mark, I feel the same way. A beautiful instrument, please let us hear more from Liverpool.

[EccentricRichard]

You know, I wish the Widor Toccata was played rather less: it's a fine piece that's become rather hackneyed. Also, notwithstanding recent alterations, the Notre Dame organ is still fabulous. Any chance of bringing us any recordings from Bath Abbey? Again, they could be linked to on Wikipedia...

[BritanniaRules]

I'm sure when there's next an organ recital from Bath Abbey, I'll record something from it - but there hasn't been one for some months, and I don't know when the next one is.

[jutescrim]

@EccentricRichard  We heard this opus recently at St Sulpice whilst visiting the church, I will never forget the experience and I have been around a v long time.

The full version was played on BBC Radio 3 @a year ago. My poor Hacker radio was having a job coping with the volume of this magnificent instrument. Please would someone give details as to where we can obtain the cd or put the complete play on Youtube

[ziggyshedevil]

This is fantastic, the best I have ever heard it played! What a pity it could not have been recorded in its entirety. Does anyone know where I could get a recording of this piece played on the organ of Notre Dame?

[contratromba858]

Ziggy, You can find a recording of the piece on the instrument for and on which it was composed, St-Sulpice in Paris, on Daniel Roth's CD with the complete Widor 5th and Widor 10th "Romane" Symphonies. It's on the Motette label but could be out of print.

[ufni3p]

Latry recorded the 5 & 6 symphonie at the lable bnl but it's rather hard to find (I think they have it in the ohscatalog. And Latry is defenitly a better Widor-interpret then Roth (well,simply a better organist all together...)

[2468HOTROD]

Utter blasphamy! lol But I really like Olivier Latry too.

[mlodyorganista]

It is beatifull... This Bombardons, Tromppetts and Principals...

[cromorne]

In respose to the Midmer-Losh in Atlantic city, it wasn't quite the exact tocatta. It was good, and the pedal well defined. And also, with the older tocatta with flutes, that organ is so intensely loud that you can kill ears with it. I like this tempo though. Virgil Fox was much too fast. Good, but fast.

[acchos]

it was the widor toccata, but it is a poor quality recording with 8 seconds reverb, it doesnt make it clear. It does sound wonderfull though, it will be amazing to hear it all working again. Its restoration has started.

[cromorne]

Are they planning to re-restore the Great Chamber? I have the "Senator's Masterpiece" video and would love to get a more in depth view of the stops. I heard in the bonus videos Jon Ledwon using the Grand Ophicleide. Like a boat horn.

[NeoMalikov]

I love the tempo, since the acoustics are so rich, faster would just sound like a mess.

[youtubeuserwilly]

give the organist a break--this in no way replicates hearing the organ concerts at ND--you're listening on your PC. Hearing the organ concerts at ND almost made me give up my sinful ways.

[smcracraft]

Widor was quite concerned about organists playing

the piece too fast. This is in fact the proper tempo.

--Stuart

[BritanniaRules]

The organist here is Mr Benjamin Righetti, of the Church of La Tour-de-Peilz in Switzerland. It was recorded at the weekly 4.30pm Sunday recital on 4th February 2007.

[juliusmax85]

Dear BritanniaRules, which model is it your cell phone?

The sound's quality is incredible!

[BritanniaRules]

Hello. My phone is a Samsung SGH 900, which I bought over a year ago! I agree the sound quality is very good, though I'm sure phones with even better sound quality are available now.

[ufni3p]

I didn't say it wasn't good. There is just a very small irregularity in the right hand(and I mean very Small) wich is normal(it's the same when I play it) but that is one of the greatest strenghts of Latry that his ritme is solid as a rock. As for the error,that's something so small not worth mentioning.

[Christopher81]

I think you are just an avid Latry fan, which there is nothing wrong with that. But for you to say this playing is not good is actually quite ignorant. As an Organist/Choirmaster and College Professor of Organ I can tell you this is very good playing. Also, what mistake is it you all are speaking of? The only possible "mistake" I hear is a near side-swipe. Other than that, I hear no mistakes at all.

[cinzano1985]

i like to play this piece of music quite easy but near to the perfect sound!

[ufni3p]

When your arms ache after 15 seconds playing this you have a problem with your technic. Defenitly not Latry playing here, it's not good enough for his standards

[BeFrSc]

You're right about the error, but you can't really expect them to get it right every time, i'm an organist myself and playing this piece makes your arms ache after 15 seconds worth.

[Shogunmiyuchan]

Who played this? Olivier Latry, Jean-Pierre Leguay or Phillippe Lefebvre? I have met Mr. Lefebvre on 2 occasions at the console of the Organ of Notre-Dame. It was deafening and unforgettable.

[chwidder]

I can't imagine either Latry or Lefèbvre playing in such a "stately" manner; it just doesn't fit their personalities. So my guess would be Leguay (unless, of course, it was another organist altogether, invited for the weekly recital).

[Christopher81]

Exactly Desi! Having played at Notre Dame quite a few times myself, I can safely say this is a perfect tempo of this work. Desi has heard my playing of this work where I take it break neck speed a la V.F., but it also depends on the room. In France/Europe you take advantage of the rollin' acoustic!

[DesireeDeFete]

This tempo is PERFECT. Some European organists always mention how American Organists like to take things so fast and unrelaxed. You can hear every note in the piece. And also...the room has about 6 seconds reverberation when packed.

[acchos]

you should hear it from the midmer losh in atlantic city, astoundingly undiscribable. i thought it was a bit slow here.

[Bachlives2]

I have heard a littke bit of it on the acch organ. Idon'e think it is that great because it is not supposed to be played with the diapason chorus consisting of what 13 or 14 diapason and a light mixture you have to have french solo reeds and mixtures with plenum and NO FLUTES. WHICH, WHO EVER PLAYED IT HAD FLUTES ON.

[acchos]

The thing is, the recording of it on the acchos website isnt great quality. When John Ledwon plays it in the DVD it sounds amazing, its such a shame it didnt all work in the DVD, even worse now.

[Renatodonadio]

Probably they played like this because part of the instrument was inoperative at the time. Now the entire instrument is under restoration.

[Renatodonadio]

That was an answer to Bachlive

[octave4]

Every organist can, and should, play music and they personally interpret it. Otherwise they would all sound exactly same, Right? There really is not "Supposed To" and different organs have different groups of stops, not all of which are satisfactory. There are no fixed rules, and there should not be.

[jona76]

You want to hear this piece at Liverpool Cathedral! Utterly amazing!!

[EccentricRichard]

Which one? Also, neither of Liverpool's cathedral organs are anything like as good as the Notre Dame organ...

[westcath]

The organ at Liverpool Anglican Cathedral is definitely better than that of Notre Dame. The organ at Notre Dame is great, but has a tendency to shriek when certain stop combinations are used, whereas at liverpool, each combination produces a musical sound.

[BritanniaRules]

It's not bad, is it?

As for the error, I may be mistaken, but it's just before the last few chords at 2:00; a note or two seems a bit mangled there. Rather pernickety, I know...

[maxouf1]

exact, actually between 2:01 ans 2:02 when it becomes the "solo" arpeges when doing do-si-do (C-B-C) the first do slides a bit on ré (D). Rotunda57 is also right, the last chord is not doubled as written on part, but only pressed once (after all, organist does as he likes, personnaly I prefer to stick to what's written as musch as possible). Or it can be due to acoustic effect and/or microphone of your phone ;) (but rest is well recorded)

[rotunda57]

Amazing the sound quality that can be got with your cell phone. What was the "error?" The missing grace note on the last chord?