Lot S93 1963 Plymouth Max Wedge

[ToyKingWonder]

Guys, this is not in the same league as the GTO. These are essentially race cars, and IIRC, there wasn't even a factory warranty on these cars. You were supposed to buy them and race them...and I don't mean 1/4 jaunts with your buddies. They weren't a "muscle car", they weren't intended for the street.

The GTO was manufactured as a street car. It was the first mass-produced car to use a mid-sized body and shove in an engine intended to go into the largest cars, strictly for performance.

[Quizcoot]

Pontiac GT-Who??? Not even in the same league!

You don't want to drag race one of these in the stock class! You'll lose!

No magic there, though. It's simply the successful pairing of a powerful engine with a lighter body.

[60viking]

my 1958 dodge had a 4 bbl, duel exhaust,aluminum 3 spd torque flight and 350 cu in "b"big block wedge Eng. same block they made the 361,383 and 400 out of. and it also had solid lifters and all factory guess mo-par was thinking about mussel for awhile. dont forget the Chrysler 300 '55' and newer letter cars.

[1959flynn]

REAL steel....and aluminum :-)

[dcmayer2]

Mopar was and is The First Real Muscle Car!

[RickinFLA07]

and they claim GTO was the first Muscle Car!.......

Mopar was! not GM.

[74duster86]

@RickinFLA07 Thats just typical gm claims before proof

[machone7I]

@RickinFLA07 And that ignoring Furys and 300Cs. which were V8 middle sized cars in the 50's. Then you got some fords, the 427 powered galaxies and fairlanes... But they keep saying GTO was the first. I don't get it...

[ToyKingWonder]

@machone7I The Fury, the 300C, and the Galaxies were all full-sized cars. Not a small mid-sized, as was the LeMans. GM had an edict not to put large engines in mid sized cars prior to the GTO.

[machone7I]

@ToyKingWonder Yeah, but that started the power wars. Yeah, the GTO was at first an option in the tempest option list, they finally managed to get a big block there. But there were a lot of V8 small cars, the ford thunderbolt in 1963, was a "small" car with a 427 racing engine in it, there were, like in the video, several wedge head 426 cars.

[ToyKingWonder]

@machone7I Yes, you are right, but again, the Thunderbolt was intended as a race car. It was not really a street car/production car. No one considers the Thunderbolt a muscle car--then or now.

So if the argument is that Pontiac was not the first to put a big engine in a smaller car, that is absolutely true...engine swapping had gone on for decades. But a production, non-race muscle car for the street, that was the GTO.

[machone7I]

@ToyKingWonder It really depends. Then, many japanese cars made in the 90's we consider tuners would be muscle, having good performance for little money, and looks intended to attract the young public using the base of a mid sized car... For me, any american car equipped with a V8, non 4 door, and an engine intended to be powerful made from 1957 to 1973 is a muscle car. And considering that, there are several cars before the GTO that fit in that.

[FletchMacPimmel]

classic early muscle