September Dawn: The Truth about the Mountain Meadows Massacr

[IExposeMormonism]

Only in Mormonism does "Shed blood" and "Be exalted with the gods" go hand in hand. There are no gods. Much less any exaltation for blind murder. For gain or revenge or advantage

[majinish]

(continued) Hitler had anyone that was a Jew killed or imprisoned just for being a Jew. Missouri made it legal to kill anyone for being a Mormon. Those that supported that law were no better than the soldiers that were involved in World War II on Hitler's side.

[majinish]

MMM happened, what this movie shows didn't. This movie is completely inaccurate. Brigham Young sent word for the saints to not attack. The message didn't arrive until 2 days after the attack. This movie also ignores the reason. People that were killed in the massacre were involved in the murders and tortures in Missouri of those saints, women and children included. Missouri also made it legal to kill someone for being Mormon.

[tmesteem]

The reasons for the massacre are complex, but center around a wartime hysteria that had built up in Utah with the announcement in July 1857 that a federal army was en route to Utah to put down an alleged Mormon rebellion. Rumors also circulated that members of the Fancher party had stolen from the Mormons, poisoned their reservoirs, and boasted of their role in the assassination of Joseph Smith.

[tmesteem]

@wannawatchu66 John D Lee NEVER said Brigham Young gave the orders for the massacre. Matter of fact the John D Lee maintained that LDS President Brigham Young had no knowledge of the event until after it happened.

[rjs01007]

@tmesteem You are right. John D. Lee never SAID Brigham Young gave the order. He WROTE it. See page 225 of "The Life and Confessions of John D. Lee".

"I have always believed, since that day, that General George A. Smith was then visiting southern Utah to prepare the people for the work of exterminating Captain Fancher's train of emigrants, and I now believe that he was sent for that purpose by the direct command of Brigham Young."

[JediMormon]

@rjs01007 ... "I believe" does not equate to "I know". John D Lee just thinks that was what happened. He never says "I know that...". You anti-Mormonism folks are grasping at straws. There is absolutely NO PROOF that Brigham Young ordered the killings. But, go right ahead and waste your time trying to. :oP The movie BOMBED horribly at the box office for a reason. It might have done better if the blame hadn't been falsely placed on BY instead of on the local members, where it belonged.

[kadkins3663]

@JediMormon Forget about proof, MORmON cultist, think about how irrational your religion is, or any religion for that matter. The thing that is most scary about your religion is that it occurred approximately 150 years ago.

[bobbyraejohnson]

Brigham young nmost likely gave the order

[wannawatchu66]

@bobbyraejohnson Actually, there was no "most likely" about it. On his deathbed, John D. Lee confessed that he got direct orders from Brigham Young to carry out the massacre.

[bobbyraejohnson]

These people didn't act because of the prophet then why would they do it they are radicals they would ask the prophet to do it

[llewellleo]

The thruth? Lol. The thruth according to some who do not believe in ballance and ignore pertenant facts and history.

[toefur69]

This was NOT an iscolated incident! This was standard procedure for dealing American citizens who dared set foot on, or even toward, Mormon Territory!

Thats the most evil part of the Mormons version! The fact they TERRORized settlers with the Indian decoy strategy on a regular basis.

[llewellleo]

Leonard J. Arrington, an author, academic and the founder of the Mormon History Association and a devoted member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, reports that Brigham Young received the rider, James Haslam, at his office on the same day. When he learned what was contemplated by the members of the Mormon Church in Parowan and Cedar City, he sent back a letter that the Fancher-Baker party be allowed to pass through the territory unmolested.[19][23] Young's letter supposedly a

[slcmarine]

there was nothing impartial about this film

[Wwwendy4JC]

How can follow a church whose founders were a pack of murderers?

[leshomorego]

There is good and bad in all churches, the latter is mostly due to the falicies of men. Mormons can't claim to be a better people than others. However, if you look at the overall history of the LDS church(past and current) you can see the goodness and Christlike service the church has rendered. ie; When ever there is a natural disaster The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is predominantly the first responder to the relief efforts on a global scale. By there fruits ye shall know them.

[buellerferris]

@leshomorego yet many widows like my mom got turned down for help after 55+ years of paying tithing/fast offerings.

[leshomorego]

Why has there been no retributions to the injustices that were done to the early Mormons? Weren't they slaughtered/exterminated as well? Just food for thought.

[AcademicTheologian]

There were. The State of Illinois apologized for the injustices of the Mormons and not investigating the murders of Joseph and Hyrum Smith. In return, they turned over a large amount of the land of Nauvoo to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Joseph's and Hryum's bodies were moved to there current graves, the town was restored, and a new temple was built to resemble the original one.;

[IExposeMormonism]

If you study the matter you'll see it wasn't a oneway street. When Mormons moved into an area they did stole, with approval and recommendation from J. Smith. Their own words promised violence. It is not the fault of all but the mormons. The exact same happened with King Strang:: He came into Beaver Island and immediately there was violence where peace had reigned. And when Strang was killed peace returned with the Mormons leaving. Regardless, There is no excuse for The Mountain Meadows Massacre

[IExposeMormonism]

The MOrmons started it. Sidny Rigdon made an "extermination speech" Prior to the state order. Mormons repeatedly encroached and stole from non mormons JD Lee tells us this and so do others. When King Strang took over Beaver Island in Michigan the same thing happened. But one of his own killed him and the people who had been pushed out returned and led normal lives again. It is a pattern of Mormonism.

[SynnLewz]

Bullshit

[toefur69]

@leshomorego Do you sympathize with AL quada too?

[bremenlegation]

even the muslims are of higher moral character than the debauched followers of joseph smith and brigham young........

[PendletonWhiskey]

Wow, amazing how well brainwashing works. 150 years after the fact and after the LDS Church itself admitted guilt you still have Morons blaming their murdered victims.

What's will they come up with next? The Francer/Baker people shot THEMSELVES?

Grab your magic underwear, the internet is killing your cult. Infection hates sunshine.

[IExposeMormonism]

@PendletonWhiskey in his report,George A Smith said it appeared the men had abandoned the women and children and run off and they were killed apart.... From the guy who proceeded the train spewing hate and lies to set up their murder. Mormons have lied about this mass ritual murder from day one and they are incapable of speaking the truth now, having only been taught lies.

[JediMormon]

@PendletonWhiskey Actually, because of the internet, the gospel is spreading faster than ever. :o)

[DadsBlueAngel]

The form this incident took doomed the Civilian

Company in a tragic way. The Story of the Missouri Wildcats is true, and if the skeleton

crew left behind to tend the animals and prepare food for a seven years cache (there was a plan to salt the fields and move deep

into the mountains). If they had not taken

matters into their inept hands, a much safer

plan to extract and kill the self-confessed

assasins would have been devised and I beeive the Massacre would not have happened.

the

[patpepi]

This was an isolated incident. Not to be compared with the inquisition or Hitler's systematic extermination. You have to know your history...The mormon's were being persecuted, they were afraid...Now, In this day and age it is silly to think there are credible witnesses or skeletons capable to stand trial.. It is up to the Almighty to judge this dead people who took their secrets to their grave and not judge the LDS Church. God Bless.

[newtzilla]

Um, fairwiki is done by mormons. Not scholars. It is commendable to be stongwilled for a cause. But what if that cause were wrong. The catholic church thought they were doing God's work during the inquisition. Hitler thought he was speeding up evolution by killing what darwin taught him were sub species. Jim jones thought he was sparing God's people from suffering when he forced the children to drink the poisoned punch first before the adults. I dare you to study Romans and compare it to the BOM

[DadsBlueAngel]

Well, the Jim Jones Analogy is Hitlerprobably the closest. Any comparison of Brigham to

Hitler. Brigham was a honest and kindly man

who's fate it was to lead thousands and tens of thousands of the poorest and most persecuted in Europe to a land "Where none

could come to hurt or make afraid".

Men traveling with the Fanchers thought they could bully and terrorize men left behind far from the larger two years war with the Government. The trains error was to let these

men out of their sight.

[utahpirateradio]

youtube. com/watch?v=GTa4G6N0yWE

[lyra2008]

what happened at MMM was an American Tragedy. And because it was on American soil, it makes it more personal to us. However, the Spanish Inquisition at which the Catholic Church tortured to death, (literally tortured them for days before dying) simply because the Catholic Church, under it's leadership, declared certain individuals as heretics, because they chose not to believe in the Catholic way,,,,died a horrilbe death. But, where is the movies about that? It is wrong, no matter what!

[dlysexci]

I just read that the document that talks about the Mountain Meadows Massacre or "Mormon" Massacre was found by forensics to be a fake.

[orindia]

What is "fake" about the massacre???

[KolobBabe]

You are full of crap! Get you facts together before you make stupid statements based on Mormon spin!!!

[analoguetom]

Brigham Young must have picked up a British accent on his mission to England.

[mamaskux13]

OMG that is so scary they were bot acting in Gods name then were they? Why would Havenly Father let them do that, why?

[nipomocarlos84]

Mormanism is not Christian. first of all if you read the Book of Mormon and if you have an education you realise that wow what a fictional story.THEY belieave the indians are the decendents of jew haha we know that with genetic testing they are from asia and they beliave that other BUll shit like jesus came over to America to teach the natives and Levanites haha what a stupid story. haha geneticly indians have not jewish blood whats up with that mormons=pagainsm

[factsanddata]

Anyone who's not Catholic is not Christian according to that church... are you catholic?

[tikitortured]

I don't care how you bring 'em...just Bring 'em Young!!

[LUMANWALTERS]

Drivel

[hypnotstcollector]

old Briggie is recieving his exaltation daily in another place far far away where none of us,despite the mormon promise, want to be. to use a legal term: 'AN UPWARD DEPARTURE' FOR BRIGHAM YOUNG,JOSEPH SMITH AND ALL THEIR ILK.

[factsanddata]

The incident of the mountain meadows is no different than the baptist clan members killing negros and jews, the catholics and the inquisition, and the anti mormons at haun's mill. Every religion has its skeletons... so he who is without guilt should cast the first stone

[nipomocarlos84]

haha factsanddata its not negros dumb ass its african american. catholism=paganism. well your right but dam mormonism dosent make anysence do

[factsanddata]

It's Negros hippomocarlos. And... like I said, Catholic doctrine says all others are not Christian... that's why I asked. But from the sounds of it you are the only one going to heaven... maybe your church (one of only 34000 Christian churches) is more favored by God than the rest. Lucky you.

[KolobBabe]

Tehehehe!

[KolobBabe]

My two statements... Tehehehe! was for dumbass factsanddata!!!!

The other was for dlysexci who is so full of crap anyone could smell it!!!!

[GodLovedJosephSmith]

Dr. Hugh Nibley commenting on our research (Nov 7, 2003), "...After this, those who challenge the Book of Mormon will have some heavy explaining to do." jefflindsay . com fairlds . org All the new evidence pointing to geography and physical evidence found since 2003 makes the Smithsonian Institutes Statement of 1996 about obsolete. GLJS There are many great videos. Some under my favorites made by Channels: SethAdamSmith LDS999 Mormon101 fairldsorg check it out & God Bless

[cowdragon]

hugh nibley is an idiot. He will lie about anything if he thinks it'll defend his religion. He has no facts to back it up. What he does have are statements from other liars (brigham young and jo smith) and he calls that gospel truth.

[GodLovedJosephSmith]

"Dr. Hugh Nibley is an idiot"

Here is where the hate begins. Dr. Nibley has proven the point of the LDS and your denying it without even listening to it.

[cowdragon]

ok godlovedjosmith, here's where your lies expose themselves even more. Did you honestly think I would just ignore your websites without reading them? LOL. I read them. You know what they are? Two entire websights devoted to the TESTIMONY that your good doctor "knows the church is true" without so much as backing it up with even one fact! Now, if pointing out that he is an idiot makes me a hater then so be it I guess. But he is.

[GodLovedJosephSmith]

Well I appreciate that you took the time to read. Most people don't care to even try. I know there will always be strong willed people in this world that will only see the world the way they see it. As for me I know that 13 million and I felt the spirit of the Lord and a change was wrought in our hearts, not what you consider brainwashing. Study of the Gospel doesn't indicate b.w. but created the foundation which is the rock which is the Revelation from God, Christ our Lord forever Amen.

[cowdragon]

Ok, I've been full of vinegar. I'll try and tone it down.

The fact is there are not 13 million members. Not active anyway. You, as one of the "faithful" have been lied to about everything from the number of members in your faith to the first vision. The DNA evidence argument on your mormonwiki was pitiful. It simply states that scientists might have it wrong without explaining how it came to that conclusion. jo smith molested children and got his prophecies wrong. How could he be a prophet?

[GodLovedJosephSmith]

Q: How could he be a prophet? Was FAIRwiki unfair as to why? I'm sure you read it. Have you heard about the alter/burial site of Ishmail from 1 Nephi 16 by Non LDS archaeologists? Have you heard about the Nephiproject?

since 2003 the findings have been amazing.

[cowdragon]

so your god chose a child molester, thief, and con-man as his prophet? I would never worship him anyway.

Now down to brass tacks. No serious scientist considers any of your "evidence" to have any basis in reality. You know why? It is contrived. It is false. It is planted. It is lied about. There have been no amazing discoveries. I've been paying attention. There is no conspiracy against LDS... it's just plain false that anything of ant significance to your bom is true.

[GodLovedJosephSmith]

Sing with me; This video is false without refrences, without refrences,

Created by the anti's, without refrences, without refrences.

Oh where do they get their proof? Heresay! Heresay! Three for a dollar!

[cowdragon]

yeah, I guess the actual facts mean nothing to you anyway. Not the eyewitness accounts. Not the forensic evidence. Not the documents. Yup... no proof for a mormon. But you got that burning in your bosom. Now go cry your way through a testimony meeting.

[GodLovedJosephSmith]

Dr. Hugh Nibley commenting on our research (Nov 7, 2003), "...After this, those who challenge the Book of Mormon will have some heavy explaining to do." jefflindsay . com fairlds . org All the new evidence pointing to geography and physical evidence found since 2003 makes the Smithsonian Institutes Statement of 1996 about obsolete. GLJS There are many great videos. Some under my favorites made by Channels: SethAdamSmith LDS999 Mormon101 fairldsorg check it out & God Bless

[cowdragon]

you already posted this word for word godlovedjosmith. I already refuted it as well. Why are you now spamming it? To take up room and promote more lies for your faith? There is no evidence when you go to these websites. All you get are a bunch of links and a mountain of testimony of how they "know the church is true" and how "someday the church will be vindicated when we find the evidence"

that is not proof.

[BrighamYoungForever]

NO WE ARE NOT SO SHUT UP ! !

[andrerosh89]

nope you are not evil but that lying brainwashing bastard called brigham young was!!

[Outlaw1257]

I thank The Heavens for YouTube. This is the most effective tool yet in exposing the fallacies & lies of LDS, the fiction of The BoM, as well as the lies & crimes of Joseph Smith.

So wonderful to see TBM's having their self righteous asses owned & handed back to them!!

[slu2com]

Here we go again with SMPF38 parading around the internet looking for critics of the LDS church to label anti-Mormon.

This was quiet amusing on my blog.

[19Steve47]

A little unknown fact: This was not the first wagon train the Mormons massacred. They did one in Idaho and two more in Utah that I know of. The 1857 massacre was a big wagon train with a lot of money that they (Mormons) needed very badly. The Mormons used or sold wagons and belongings of there victims to other wagon trains passing by.

[BrighamYoungForever]

PROVE IT THEN

[MistyAnn0414]

Awesome Movie!! Very well acted and historically accurate. Of course the LDS will cry about this movie, they refuse see the truth about their church.

[smpf38]

MistyAnn: Of course the LDS will cry about this movie, they refuse see the truth about their church.

Not just the LDS, I can give you 30 movie reviews of critics and researchers (all non-mormons) who not only say that this is a bad movie, but also poor history. There is no evidence that Brigham ordered or even knew about the massacre before it happened.

[Jacksonholenativ]

Read peer reviewed historical writings on this history. This film is NOT historically accurate. Also John D. Lee did not say "Mormons do your duty..." He said "Brethren do your duty"  That film is a slick Hollywood portrayal.

[rsmith120]

Oh, Bill. Always bolstering the opposition. Never strengthening the community you have served. Shame on you!

[longbeachlt]

i know about mormons there not christian, the perv the bible and say the book of mormon is better, there evil

[Zeadman2]

so you are saying that i am evil.....

HOW DARE YOU YOU BASTERD!!!!

i am not an evil person

[medtech14]

Go to LDS . Org and click on LDS newsroom to read the LDS church's public statement of the MMM to get the documented history for yourself. Also seach the tite( mountain meadows massacre in the news again) on you tube to see an unbiast look at the event that took place.

[kadkins3663]

Why is this view based - because it doesn't attempt to white-wash the incident in typical LDS fashion?

[kadkins3663]

There's one thing that no matter how hard the Mormons attempt to deny or cover up, they cannot answer. Undisputedly, Brigham Young was the "law of the land" at the time of the massacre. Undisputedly, he did at some point become aware that the massacre took place, whether he ordered it or not. So then, why weren't the offenders (those participating in the massacre) punished?

[kadkins3663]

(continued) Even if Young had no involvement (as the Mormons claim), and did not condone it, why was no one punished for the crime prior to federal involvement?

[medtech14]

Although Brigham Young and other Church leaders in Salt Lake City learned of the massacre soon after it happened, their understanding of the extent of the settlers' involvement and the terrible details of the crime came incrementally over time. In 1859 they released from their callings stake president Isaac Haight and other prominent Church leaders in Cedar City who had a role in the massacre. In 1870 they excommunicated Isaac Haight and John D. Lee from the Church.

[kadkins3663]

Exccomunicated???!!!??? I come from a long line of military men. We have served in every major campaign/ war from the American Revolution. I served in the Marine Corp in Beirut when other terrorists (other than Mormons) blew apart the Marine Corp headquarters. My son is currently in Afghanistan. Never once did any of these men commit such a cowardly, heinous act.

[medtech14]

Good for you guys. Don't see what being in the military has to do with this subject or the word terrorist but ok. I am a Police officer for the record but that is another tangent too. Every church's members have commited crimes but does that make the church bad? Brigham young didn't order the murders. I asked you to prove that Briham ordered the murders. Still waiting.

[kadkins3663]

By the way, I apologize for my grammar; I meant 'biased', not 'based'.

[medtech14]

I understood what you said but please understand that this incident is and never was concealed from church members. Brigham Young worked with the information that he was given. Read the article on LDS . Org and see for yourself. Please don't be quick to judge.

[kadkins3663]

Yes, for an unbiased account, look to the head of the fanatical religion that perpetrated the crime.

[medtech14]

Prove it then.

[kadkins3663]

And that's the MORmON answer to one of the most horrible, cowardly acts committed in the name of fanatical religion in my country.

[medtech14]

Answer? I gave you an answer. It's a couple of rows above this answer. The murders were commited by memebrs. The church has never hid this. Brigham Yourng had nothing to do with it. He never ordered ot or condoned it. Prove he ordered it and the case is closed.

[kadkins3663]

Foolish MORmON, he created the fanatical atmosphere for this to occur. He ignored and disputed the laws of the United States regarding polygamy, and then decided he would rebel when my country decided to that he should comply as every other American was required to do so.

[medtech14]

Created a fanatical atmosphere? You can warp it anyway you want buddy. Well if discontinuing polygamy is rebeling then I'm confused because the practice was discontinued even before Utah became a state.Your country? I protect this country everytime I put on my badge and gun. I risk my life for it every day. Members of other religions murdered my ancestors until they left the Us territory but you won't see a movie about that will you.

[medtech14]

What religion are you from?

[kadkins3663]

I was raised and confirmed in the Catholic Church. I was given the opportunity after confirmation by my parents to leave the church if I desired. I did. I follow no religion nor 'man' who professes a prophet.

[medtech14]

That is your choice. I don't condem you you for your choice and I don't condem the church organizations that had members that murdered, raped and mutalated the bodies of my ancestors. These were American citizens that killed my people. If you get your facts from only ANTI- sources then you will come up with radical answers. LDS . org is an aprosch you should try.

[kadkins3663]

Without glasses (don't have them with me) on this laptop, my grammar/spelling is only going to get worse. But before I go, I will say this: why do you keep trying to guide me to that website? Believe it or not, I have been there. I understand that there are differnt points of view on this issue. Believe me when I say I have considered them all.

[kadkins3663]

(continued) I am probably in the least 'biased' position of the two of us. I believe it is you who can't see due to the blinders LDS has required you to wear. Talk to me when you can think for yourself.

[medtech14]

I can. I'm a convert. Talk to me when you have the facts.

[Outlaw1257]

MedTech;

The fact is that you have convertes to a bogus church which was founded by a conman who was also an arsonist & a sexual predator.

Sucks to be Mormon!!

[smpf38]

"D minus.... Clearly "September Dawn" is constructed as an anti-Mormon diatribe disguised as a historical narrative.... Like most 'historical' pictures, [it] has serious problems in historical terms. But in this case they're exacerbated by the simple ineptitude of the filmmaking." - Dr. Frank Swietek who is not only a film critic, but also Associate Professor of History at the University of Dallas

[Jacksonholenativ]

Will Bagley is a historian who is obsessed with this story and who has done a lot to gain notoriety and accolades for his research. LDS Historian Juanita Brookes did far more than Will Bagley ever did.

[longbeachlt]

im happy this movie is comming out, mormons use the name jesus but they really belive in that jo smith! There not christian like they say they are.

[spudmustang]

You've posted the same thing on every video that involves Mormons. Obviously you don't know much about Mormons if that's all you can say.

[MrSnyde]

I am very curious to see this movie. Religious fundamentalism in any form is the cause of much of the human suffering throughout history.

[BareknuckleRealist]

What a snide remark, Mr. Snyde. You see conviction without compromise, not politically correct bending over every way the wind blows.