Alak means basically something that clinges or stick to something, it can be used for blood clot, mud, leech, tree that sticks its branches to animals etc
-The mufasirs took i to mean blood in nature because its inside human body, not that alak means blood it doesnt !
-Tafsir IbnAdil: حولنا النطفة عن صفاتها إلى صفات العلقة، وهي الدم الجامد" - "To make nutfa in its ATTRIBUTES in the ATTRIBUTES of alaka, and that is rigid or congealed blood" - the attribute that it has is sticking to something
@penkallli You are the clot around here- and that isn't the Arabic translation of clot rather a quaint English expression for an idiot. With or without a nice sterile botty bum
Imam Muslim narrated from Hudhayfa ibn Asad that the Prophet Muhammad said MHMD - upon him and his House blessings and peace:
"After the nutfa has been in the uterus forty-two days, Allah sends it an angel that gives it form and fashions its hearing, sight, skin, flesh, and skeleton."
"...Each one of you collected in the womb of his mother for forty days, and then turns into a clot for an equal period (of forty days) and turns into a piece of flesh for a similar period (of forty days) and then Allah sends an angel and orders him to write four things, i.e., his provision, his age, and whether he will be of the wretched or the blessed (in the Hereafter). Then the soul is breathed into him..."
Anas bin Malik ..Allah, the Exlated and Glorious, has appointed an angel as the caretaker of the womb, and he would say: My Lord, it is now a drop of semen; my Lord, It is now a clot of blood; my Lord, it has now become a lump of flesh, and when Allah decides to give it a final shape, the angel says: My Lord, would it be male or female..
-The last stage is after 40 days, the hadith that u mentioned mentions semen as general term
The prophet didnt get it wrong, the interpretation of it was wrong by some, the embryos does look like alak before 28 days, the pictures u showed started from 28 !
@penkallli I wonder who flagged my last comment. Here is what I said - "WTF I myself said in my video, that Alaq can have many meanings !! so no it is in no shape the foundation of my theory."
"Well we showed from Ibn Kathir" - NOPE. You just translated alaq as leech. Any moron could do that. But then I gave you the full quote and Ibn Kathir quoting from Ikramah says it is blood...BLOOD!
I know you want desperately block this from your mind. but seriously game over! :)
And by the way, Galen was talking about seeing organs, which is impssible, since Alak is 1-3 mm long, seems Galen was talking about something else all along !
qtafsir(.)com go to 23:13 it says: "Then it becomes a red clot, like an elongated clot."
The sentence like this doesnt make sense the translator was confused, alaqah is used for both words, it would be "Then it becomes a red clot, like an elongated leech"
Interesting video, thanks! I often get Jehovah's Witnesses knocking on my door and always talk to them about textual criticism and transmission and how this affects their book of stories, but it's like talking to a recording of a brick wall on a scratched record. An absolute refusal to even consider where the gumpf they are spouting at me has come from, and how it has got there. Of course, they laugh when I bring up the magic underpants of Mormonism, but they fail to see the irony. Cheers!
It seems penkallli having had his arse cleaned by it being wiped across the floor of reason has gone to the mosque to bend over and seek divine inspiration from the cold fruitless moon of Islam in order to regain the upper hand from his detractors and his noble delusion. Poor lad. I suppose, should one spend so much time bending over for Allah it must occur to you sooner or later in a moment's loss of concentration whether all those arses bending in front you are free from the 'business' of life
@penkallli He he! PhDs on mumbo jumbo.Tired old nonsensical vague Quranic rhetoric making a vague stab at embryology borrowed from the Greeks. You can bang on about the 'scientific' miracle of(so funny)'embryology' in the Quran and the only person you are fooling is you.Islam is excellent for self delusion. Confirmation bias.Try applying for university biology course giving your expertise in Quranic science as a qualification and they'll throw you out on your germ free arse,He He etc
JUST watched this vid again and enjoyed it again. Terrifically entertaining and as incisive as the first time! You explain the dilemma of the young questioner so well. I do hope SS that you will continue to contribute to the J nT show whenever you can.
2:29 - It is He Who hath created for you all things that are on earth; Moreover His design comprehended the heavens, for He gave order and perfection to the seven FIRMAMENTS; and of all things He hath perfect knowledge
-the word FIRMAMENTS is not in the arabic, its heavens-samawat, such a lousy translation, no wonder some1 would confuse, always consult the arabic
Appeal to Ridicule and Personal Attack; by stopspamming, this is not the first time atheists do this, as for arguments from authority of course we all do it when we arent experts on the field were talking about, u bring ur experts I bring mine, thats how it goes
@penkallli No. I don't need to check logical fallacies.Islam IS a logical fallacy. Its very sad for you to have so many enlightened people tell you that the comical rubbish you have believed in all this time isn't real Isn't true and really is an intellectual dead end. Welcome to reality and enjoy your new freedom from superstitious childish rubbish Muslims REALLY are the first victims of Islam. Filled with a fairy tale the moment they escape the womb it stays with them all their life
Well stopspamming the 'expert' brings a 15 year old kid, then I debunk every claim that he makes, that doesnt sound to me like really good case against Islam
@penkallli Yes but stop Spamming is rational your'e simple deluded. It isn't necessary to make a case against Islam its so irrational it's pointless. How do you bring a case against something so manifestly ridiculous as the Quran? It not your fault your are deluded. After all its not as though you had any choice in the rubbish of Islam. You simply inherited it from parents and a culture that didn't know anything better or how to ask one decent question like: 'is this stuff true?'
@penkallli A million experts of 'academics' on the Quran would not make the slightest difference to real knowledge. All you would have is a million experts on mumbo jumbo. Now goes waswas your bottom since it makes you feel superior. Off you go. As for rationality it is impossible to discuss anything with anyone who believes in irrational myths like Islam. Even a billion 'academics' of mumbo jumbo are only FULL of irrational mumbo jumbo. Go to the mosque and examine some arses
} ""Naggar is a clown." Appeal to Ridicule and Personal Attack; by stopspamming, this is not the first time atheists do this"
Well then get your facts straight. I have shown that Naggar spouts total nonsense and I maintain his title is a fake because I have written to him, his university and the university where he claimed he completed his Ph.D. No result, unknown.
If you can bring me his dissertation I will retract my comments and formally apologise, as atheists do.
I chuckled all along the way with you. Your humour is difficult to resist and I cannot help but laugh with you! And your observationsl; spot on. ' a search engine that blocks all reality and only lets the dogma in' Every Imam's dream! Misconceptions lies and Ignorance...just about sums it up for Islam
'Concerning the earth as a planet..The mountain chains with their deep roots in the lithosphere ..tend to subside these violent motions(rotational motion around its axis) lessen the powerful staggering of the earth's rotational axis and make the earth more stable and orderly in its rotation around the axis . The mountains also, attenuate the violent movement of the earth in such a way that a tire attenuates percussion during rotation.'
As I have shown in other videos, Naggar is a clown. His Ph.D. is disputed. His "knowledge" on geology is worse than that of a 14-year-old-girl in school.
'The violent motion of these plates is only calmed through the consecutive formation of mountain chains till they reach their final stage.One continent pushes the platform under the other continent till the two collide compressing the rock aggregate between them into great mountain chains extending with their wedges, which fasten the rocks of both continents together just like a wedge fastens down a tent .'
@StopSpamming1 - Excellent point....Has any non-believer ever been possessed by demons or witnessed a miracle? I know believers haven't either, but it appears by their logic supernatural events only appear to those who believe in them in the first place, and therefore susceptible to delusion.
@rogan71 Great point! I Wonder if there are cross delusions which traverse religious divides? Catholics are possessed by the Devil, Muslims by jinn. I wonder if a Buddhist could encounter stigmata? Or a Muslim the 'body of Christ in a biscuit?' Each deluded religious casualty to the manifestations of their own traditions.. God works in mysterious cross cultural ways?
@penkallli This stuff must be difficult for you. It must be hard to be reminded that you actually believe in a lot of old invented nonsense and all the mythology which has accrued around it for centuries. Islam is far too silly to be real. like SSpamming says, you really do have to switch your brain off to accept Islam as a truth. And you really do need to ask real questions about reality you live in -which the Quran has only ever guessed at. Personally, I find Islam really comical
@penkallli What medieval nonsense is this you spout? After I defecate or urinate? Can't you see you are simply a credulous dupe? An ill educated victim of the most stupid (religious nonsense ) ever invented by a thieving manipulating charismatic warlord who sought only to unite the disparate squabbling tribes behind him using the power of religion to fool and manipulate gullible people like yourself? Islam is complete and childlike nonsense. You're a simple casualty of a simple hoax
@penkallli You people really have problems with bodilly functions fluids and generally being human don't you? Do you think those Muslim policemen who beat and stripped the HIjab from the woman in Tahrir square last weekend were thinking:'Well at least my arse is clean even if my mind is full of filth. Now I can kick her in the breasts?' Islam, an obsessed ridiculous dead end. Have you though about the 'dirty' bacteria on your skin, up your nose. You people are So obsessed-like Islam
@penkallli Yes you are right, the 15 year old was wrong about the point on rain! The connection b/w rain and clouds are one of the most obvious things that humanity would have figured out. Especially, those living in areas with a scarcity of water. The sight of clouds is a always a good sign for them.
But other than that mistake, he was pretty much right on everything else. I hope he doesn't give up rationality for the fear of a desert myth
"As for Islam ur not at my level of knowledge on Islam"
Actually, its the other way around. You are not at my level of understanding of non-demonstrability (of validity) of Islam. Did you know if demonstrability is expected, yet not achieved, your hypothesis is barely worth a penny?
As always, this "kind" of objection is utterly irrelevant. Whether I know Arabic or to what extent I know Arabic has no bearing on certain "operative truths" at all. "2+2=4" is the "same" all over the world (as in the "mechanical", "relativistic" and "quantum" approximation).
Your contempt for demonstrability is apparently the direct result of your indoctrination and the subsequent delusion which took hold of your mind.
Wrong again, buddy! You are wrong because you cant demonstrate (allegedly) demonstrable claims.
"I find mistakes in ur masters arabic usage"
You havent demonstrated any such thing. And yes, two plus two does equal four, no matter how much you dislike it. So if Allah "says" he will protect "you", yet demonstrably fails to do so, you are done.
"find me 1 mistake in the quran if t hats the case"
Ok... Find me the setting place of the Sun.
"factual mistakes upon translations"
I can easily refer to expertly crafted Quranic interpretations, traditional Arabic dictionaries, lexicons, etc. Denying 2+2=4 is foolish, buddy. Concerning "this" youve been corrected so many times, yet you still dont get it.
Plenty of crackpotism, indeed. However, since you are unable to respond properly to one issue raised only, there is no need to rush to the next problem. Take your time!
Are you really that stupid? You really think I havent done that long time ago? Kathir (who was more educated than you, since he lived in the 14th century and you still live in the 7th century) claims that its impossible to reach that "point." Yet the Quran explicitly states that he reached it and found it setting "there and there." We know, this is practically impossible.
"setting in a spring is from the perspective of the eye"
Again, found setting =! perspective of the eye. Remember? He found it setting, that is, he found the very place of "Suns setting." There is no such place of course.
"I trust "so and so" more"
Since when is that so? Just read through your stupid commentary. You are becoming more and more inconsistent, buddy.
From the perspective of the eye means its not really happening, its simple english !
Baydawi: "{ وَجَدَهَا تَغْرُبُ } ولم يقل كانت تغرب" - he found it setting- didnt say it the sun did set there" from the arabic language -wajadaha tagrubu, doesnt mean it actually sets
"he found it setting- didnt say it the sun did set there"
He "actually" found it setting there. Thats more than just "it set there." Its more because It set there and in addition he found it and hence confirmed the "fact". The problem here is, one never can find the setting place of the Sun, because it always "sets" over the horizon.
"when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People"
- If the sun did set in a murky water, how could the people live near it, when the sun burns, the arabs know it, unless its the perspective of the eye !
Its clear from the context and the arabic used what this means, mufasirs agree on this, the only one disagreeing is u, a person who doesnt know arabic and islamic text,
Apply Hadith Qudsi 35 and Allah will surely reveal this secret to you. Concerning the "people", they could have easily lived on a peninsula and the Sun was simply setting next to them.
"clear from context"
Yea... He found the setting place. So it must exist, right?
"scholars"
Read your own garbage first and better try to stay more consistent. Lastly; stop equivocating.
hehe, the hadith qudsiy in question is not taken literally as u want to take the verse literally, false analogy
-If the found the sun setting there and he found also the people leaving near it, which is impossible since that happens only in the day of judgement by hadith
Ibn Jawzi: "كما يرى راكب البحر الذي لا يرى طَرَفه أن الشمس تغيب في الماء، وذلك لأن ذا القرنين انتهى إلى آخر البنيان فوجد عيناً حَمِئة ليس بعدها أح"- as if it sets like the one looking the sun on the seashore...
-- O my God another scholar, this is getting funny !
I can find many verses where the quran uses such speech, but we see the context and what it meant, of course scholars of the text, come the same conclusion
No1 says the actual place, its a figurative speech, it hides the place from the reader, ex. I went to the place where sun sets in a burning volcano !
Im describing the place hiding its location, this is literary device, if we mean literally we cant say he also found people near it, when hadith text denies that
Yea... "Scholars" from 500 year after the Quran, when they got a little bit more educated and new they had to equivocate to save the plain dogma.
"figurative"
Really... So when I find the place of the setting Sun its just figurative (place). So I actually didnt find it. Why would I claim that I did? To fool the gullible? Stop discrediting yourself.
Fact of the matter is, Arabs started learning Hellenic astronomy starting in early 8th century. So of course the scholars cited by Penkali would want to reinterpret what the quran obviously says!
Funny enough there are two hadiths where muhammad directly says the sun "sets in a warm spring"
"Arabs started leaning Hellenic astronomy starting in early 8th century"
Indeed. "Fortunately" for us detractors (of traditional Islam) this new knowledge got incorporated into the Islamic cannon much later. Your two additional examples beautifully support this theory, too.
@penkallli Odd how you people deny the rhetoric which indicates a flat earth but jump on the rhetoric which implies a big bang. The Answer is always in the the rhetoric and what you chumps claim it means. Humpty Dumpty springs to mind
@penkallli I said the rhetoric points to a flat earth. Or can be interpreted that way. I mean the name of the game you're playing here is interpretation of the Quran. I made no claims concerning Greek astronomy. I do wonder if the Greeks may have seen any flying horses whilst gazing upward on those starry nights though.
Are you? How come you are not locked up in a lab and being studied by NASA and co? And if you can say anything, and that anything is plain nonsense, does it mean if the Quran says anything it is nonsense, too?
"evidence"
Galen lived in the 2nd/3rd century, right? See Britannica to learn about this fact. Uncle Mo supposedly lived in the 6th/7th century, right? Again, see Britannica to learn about this supposed fact. So... 2+2 still equals 4, right?
Well thats the problem with ur interpretations of interpretations !
If prophet copied from the greeks its hard to believe he didnt come across round earth !
To say arabs started hellenic astronomy studies in 8th cent, while at the same time saying the prophet did that earlier for embryology and believed flat earth, is pure fantasy
No its not hard to believe. These are two completely different branches. One is medicine, the other is cosmology.
"did that earlier for embryology and believed flat earth is pure fantasy"
Is it? Or was the prophit rather interested in medicine, which was much more practical (and gave him a real advantage) than some cosmic mumbling? Who taught "him" all the stuff? A cosmologist or rather a doctor (i.e. al-Harith)?
@penkallli "I thought prophet Muhamed already copied from Galen and others when forming Quran, it seems it didnt start in 7th centuty but 8th"
Plagiarism does not mean one has to "read" the other's books or works.
For example, If I came out today and said "I have discovered the theory of evolution all by myself and that I have never read any of the works written by Darwin"...it would still constitute as plagiarism. Obviously, I could HEAR about evolution by just being alive.
These are scholars of the high caliber all say the same thing, u claim the opposite, Im with the scholars !
- hadith of the day of judgement says that the sun will be 1 mile above the heads of people, they will no die but sweat till their ankles, their necks etc, ur interpretation doesnt make sense
Well... What is the throne then? Where is it? Where does the Sun go, to turn up in the same place the next day? Why does it need permission from Allah to do so? These are clearly descriptions of geocentric cosmologies.
@penkallli "above the 7th heaven" Really? And where do we find that one? On the other side of planet Earth? "sun raises between the horns of satan, which is not literal in meaning" How can you compare something we dont know to something "we" supposedly have found/reached? Are you nuts? "affair vs sun" And? Whats your point? "upward not below" Where is upward and where is bellow from the perspective of Allah and his throne? "other text" Those texts dont make sense at all.
he identified heaven as above the earth, not the sun goes down, but the arsh is above the heaven not beneath the earth, the sun to travel to the arsh it needs to go upwards, not downwards ! In that case we would see the sun rise again
"sun prostrating is this literal, like we prostrate"
Well, obviously not literal, because the Sun has no legs and arms, etc. Yet it does prostrate under Allahs throne, right? So how does it do that? Just as every other sun does. Didnt you know? Take a telescope and have a look! lol
"i dont pick and choose"
No... You are denying reality. You are denying 2+2=4. lol
@penkallli penkallli - obviously...it's an expression...a poem, as is the Quran only without the ugliness... The difference is that believing we are literally all one is fundamentally less divisive than believing in the camps of Islam and non-Islam.
The hadith about the throne and the sun is also figurative, reasons:
1) we have other ahadith taking about that, the sun raises between the horns of Satan, find me 1 person that interpret it literally !
2) The throne is above the 7th heaven and Kursiy, the earth is in the 1st
3) if the sun goes for several hours up to the throne, how can be back so soon, when "(all affairs) go up to Him, on a Day, the space whereof will be (as) a thousand years of your reckoning. "
"...He said, "It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west..."
"...He said, "It goes and asks permission to prostrate, and it is allowed, and (one day) it, as if being ordered to return whence it came, then it will rise from the west..."
"...Verily it (the sun) glides till it reaches its resting place under the Throne. Then it falls prostrate and remains there until it is asked: Rise up and go to the place whence you came, and it goes back and continues emerging out from its rising place and then glides till it reaches its place of rest under the Throne..."
LOL How ironic that you take these scholars (all of whom who lived during or after Arabs academically started studying hellenic science and hence were aware that the earth wasn't flat and that there was no setting place"), you want to take the word of the commentators now BUT in my video called "Leech like thing" when I quoted the same scholars with TWENTY others who saying we were a clot of blood, you said they are all wrong! Wow lol
Alak is not just blood clot, it seems u dont understand english,
Go and translate alak to arabic I challenge u, see what u get
Blood clot is not translated as Alak,
The same mistake with klngschor, i challenged him to translate Galen in arabic and see if it is Alak, of course its not,
-The big irony is that, u claim the prophet plagiarized from the greeks in embryology, while not getting from them that the earth was round ! Thats funny actually
@penkallli "The big irony is that ... earth was round
I wouldn't have had a problem if there weren't statements like "setting in a spring" etc. Which is why the analogy of evolution. Evolution is established as a fact by the scientists today but I am sure if Muhammad lived today, he would have been one of those pesky evolution denying creationists, but this does not cut him off to access any of the scientific info of the day :)
(31:29) "Ibn `Abbas said, "The sun is like flowing water, running in its course in the sky during the day. When it sets, it travels in its course beneath the earth until it rises in the east.''
Ibn Kathir lived in the 14th century when everyone knew that the earth was spherical and that the sun and moon were far away from earth. Where is your evidence this is what Muhammad believed?
Prophet Muhamed didnt elaborate, so we have interpretations of the verses, which we cant take literally since we have other texts of the same nature and context ! U cant pick and choose
@penkallli THis is what I love about you."Prophet Muhamed didn't elaborate" You really think its all real don't you?That Mo really was a 'prophet' rather than a wily old warlord and pirate who attempted to unite the squabbling tribes and their many 'gods' under his new 'one god'. Which he conveniently became the prophet for. Understanding the power of religion to dupe frighten and manipulate the dull and the dim he proceeds to invent revelations and the hoax known as Islam is born
@penkallli You claim 'rational thought' and using your mind and 'logic' to make the text of ancient mumbo jumbo validate your childlike beliefs? Nothing logical or coherent about that. Just simple wishful thinking and confirmation bias. Islam frightens its children with mumbo jumbo the second they escape the womb. Like drops of sealing wax it sticks to their psyches and they remain children all their lives frightened of Allah and his Hell
Ur premises are wrong thus ur conclusion is wrong too !
Its not mumbo jumbo, its the highest literature in arabic ever conceived !
until u get over ur prejudices its difficult ull understand something
-As for Alak, this shows the importance of the arabic text, not translations, caprain and others were wondering where does leech like thing comes well its from the arabic of Ibn Kathir, the english translators lapsed !
@penkallli All this stuff about a hoax called Islam coming from a mentally damaged casualty of the daftest nastiest religion ever to insult the fabric of the universe. You will get far more real nourishment from the Quran if you eat it. Understanding Arabic does not prevent you from being a credulous dupe. It actually encourages it. Bollox is still bollox even in Arabic.
@penkallli I don't need to. Because I do not give the Quran or Islam any intellectual credibility whatsoever. To actually give you and your potty beliefs any credibility would be to stoop to your level of irrationality. Is it possible that within your mythological beliefs that Mo's night journey was a 'metaphorical spiritual journey'- not that I care I merely want to know if you actually think Al Buraq was a real creature... within your delusional religious paradigm?
@penkallli "since we have other texts of the same nature and context ! U cant pick and choose"
Where did I pick and choose? All the tafsirs state it is a blood clot. Why should i take their word over yours? Anyone with honesty would see that Mr Mo was as wrong as it gets
"Blood clot is not translated as Alak"
- lane lexicon - "or the seminal fluid, after its appearance, when it becomes thick, clotted, blood... (Msb [See Kuran xxiii. 14)"
@penkallli Why are you still dishonestly leaving out the part after your (reinterpreted and mistranslated) sentence. Ibn Kathir then goes to quote Ikrimah , Muhamamad's companion
c'mon this stuff is hilarious. muslim apologists are scientific comedians.
halflifeproductionz 2 months ago 2
i find the deen show to be more dishonest than Zakir Naik
schpoogie 2 months ago 3
Alak means basically something that clinges or stick to something, it can be used for blood clot, mud, leech, tree that sticks its branches to animals etc
-The mufasirs took i to mean blood in nature because its inside human body, not that alak means blood it doesnt !
-Tafsir IbnAdil: حولنا النطفة عن صفاتها إلى صفات العلقة، وهي الدم الجامد" - "To make nutfa in its ATTRIBUTES in the ATTRIBUTES of alaka, and that is rigid or congealed blood" - the attribute that it has is sticking to something
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli
Quack, quack, quack... Time to learn how to count to 40 on a number line, right?
Wrath0fKhan 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Wrath0fKhan
Go find Galens microscope
penkallli 2 months ago
Captains attacks on Hamza was that alak means blood clot in this context full stop, he also said that it also means leech, but not leech like
Well we showed from Ibn Kathir that he used 2 words for the same word alak:
Clot and like a elongated leech
This breaks that part of his argument
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli You are the clot around here- and that isn't the Arabic translation of clot rather a quaint English expression for an idiot. With or without a nice sterile botty bum
CorporalNym 2 months ago
@penkallli
And both is wrong! Embryo is neither clot-like, nor leech like! LOL
Wrath0fKhan 2 months ago
@Wrath0fKhan
It is leech like and clot like as in red from the blood vessels
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli
"leech like and clot like as in red"
LOL
embryo.soad.umich(.)edu/carnStages/allStagesButtons(.)gif
Wrath0fKhan 2 months ago
@Wrath0fKhan
Alak is before 28 days
hehem LOL indeed
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli
"LOL"
Imam Muslim narrated from Hudhayfa ibn Asad that the Prophet Muhammad said MHMD - upon him and his House blessings and peace:
"After the nutfa has been in the uterus forty-two days, Allah sends it an angel that gives it form and fashions its hearing, sight, skin, flesh, and skeleton."
LOL indeed! LOL
Wrath0fKhan 2 months ago 2
@Wrath0fKhan
Theres no such hadith, if it is give me the exact link where u got it from, to check the arabic
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli
The Pursuit of Learning in the Islamic World, 610-2003 (Hunt Janin), chapter 1 , page 207.
Wrath0fKhan 2 months ago 2
@penkallli
Heres more, buddy... LOL
Bukhari 8.77.593:
"...Each one of you collected in the womb of his mother for forty days, and then turns into a clot for an equal period (of forty days) and turns into a piece of flesh for a similar period (of forty days) and then Allah sends an angel and orders him to write four things, i.e., his provision, his age, and whether he will be of the wretched or the blessed (in the Hereafter). Then the soul is breathed into him..."
Busted again!
Wrath0fKhan 2 months ago 3
@Wrath0fKhan
Anas bin Malik ..Allah, the Exlated and Glorious, has appointed an angel as the caretaker of the womb, and he would say: My Lord, it is now a drop of semen; my Lord, It is now a clot of blood; my Lord, it has now become a lump of flesh, and when Allah decides to give it a final shape, the angel says: My Lord, would it be male or female..
-The last stage is after 40 days, the hadith that u mentioned mentions semen as general term
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli
Exactly! Islamic embryology is irrelevant! And you prove it by your own exegesis! Self-exposed! LOL
Wrath0fKhan 2 months ago 4
@Wrath0fKhan
The prophet didnt get it wrong, the interpretation of it was wrong by some, the embryos does look like alak before 28 days, the pictures u showed started from 28 !
Find a picture from 10-20 days
penkallli 2 months ago
@Wrath0fKhan
The translaltion is bad
Equal period (40 days) seimilar period is not in the arabic, its mithlu dhalik-similar to it !
The scholars were divided majority said its 120 days who go it wrong, the minority said its 40 days-who got it right !
- The hadith in buhari mentons general 40 days for all stages, then specifies, the hadith in muslim specifies only 40-45 days !
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli
"40 days-who got it right"
Yet the pictures prove you wrong. So it doesnt matter whether its 40 or 120 days at all. Self-exposed, buddy. Self-exposed! LOL
Wrath0fKhan 2 months ago 3
This has been flagged as spam show
@penkallli I wonder who flagged my last comment. Here is what I said - "WTF I myself said in my video, that Alaq can have many meanings !! so no it is in no shape the foundation of my theory."
"Well we showed from Ibn Kathir" - NOPE. You just translated alaq as leech. Any moron could do that. But then I gave you the full quote and Ibn Kathir quoting from Ikramah says it is blood...BLOOD!
I know you want desperately block this from your mind. but seriously game over! :)
captaindisguise 2 months ago 6
@penkallli
If you have a problem with something someone said, why don't you talk to them about it?
Commenting here does nothing to address the point.
Oh and: you failed to understand the point, so get some advice on what he means before you embarrass yourself even more - if that is still possible.
StopSpamming1 2 months ago 6
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@StopSpamming1
Captain runs not me
The point is that he uses mistranslation, to force only 1 meaning of a word, that wont wash !
penkallli 2 months ago
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@StopSpamming1
And by the way, Galen was talking about seeing organs, which is impssible, since Alak is 1-3 mm long, seems Galen was talking about something else all along !
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli
Where does Ibn Kathir say alaqah can mean an elongated leech? Can you provide me with a reference please?
charlie13121 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos 2
This has been flagged as spam show
@charlie13121
qtafsir(.)com go to 23:13 it says: "Then it becomes a red clot, like an elongated clot."
The sentence like this doesnt make sense the translator was confused, alaqah is used for both words, it would be "Then it becomes a red clot, like an elongated leech"
Thats where leech like comes from
penkallli 2 months ago
Laughter is the best medicine!
EarwiggoAgain 2 months ago
Hope the guy can come to terms with himself. He truly did seem bothered by his 'fall' from faith.
Hell, yes I want to see more rational thinkers out there, but I also want people to at least be happy with their lives.
Shangori 2 months ago
@Shangori
I am not sure this was genuine. It sounded too good to me.
StopSpamming1 2 months ago
Interesting video, thanks! I often get Jehovah's Witnesses knocking on my door and always talk to them about textual criticism and transmission and how this affects their book of stories, but it's like talking to a recording of a brick wall on a scratched record. An absolute refusal to even consider where the gumpf they are spouting at me has come from, and how it has got there. Of course, they laugh when I bring up the magic underpants of Mormonism, but they fail to see the irony. Cheers!
ZePissmidget 2 months ago
4:16 doesn't the guy there look like one of the characters off of Friends?
NoNamesLeft0102 2 months ago
It seems penkallli having had his arse cleaned by it being wiped across the floor of reason has gone to the mosque to bend over and seek divine inspiration from the cold fruitless moon of Islam in order to regain the upper hand from his detractors and his noble delusion. Poor lad. I suppose, should one spend so much time bending over for Allah it must occur to you sooner or later in a moment's loss of concentration whether all those arses bending in front you are free from the 'business' of life
CorporalNym 2 months ago 8
@CorporalNym
I didnt bring a 15 year old kids false premises as an argument against Islam !
Reason and text is my evidence, and Im wiping the floor with ur so called experts right now
Next time bring ur PhDs on Islam, and understanding arabic would help, hehe
penkallli 2 months ago
Comment removed
CorporalNym 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@penkallli He he! PhDs on mumbo jumbo.Tired old nonsensical vague Quranic rhetoric making a vague stab at embryology borrowed from the Greeks. You can bang on about the 'scientific' miracle of(so funny)'embryology' in the Quran and the only person you are fooling is you.Islam is excellent for self delusion. Confirmation bias.Try applying for university biology course giving your expertise in Quranic science as a qualification and they'll throw you out on your germ free arse,He He etc
CorporalNym 2 months ago
JUST watched this vid again and enjoyed it again. Terrifically entertaining and as incisive as the first time! You explain the dilemma of the young questioner so well. I do hope SS that you will continue to contribute to the J nT show whenever you can.
CorporalNym 2 months ago
Catholic Tzortzis? ;P
Gargatuan1989 2 months ago
Example of a a bad translation:
2:29 - It is He Who hath created for you all things that are on earth; Moreover His design comprehended the heavens, for He gave order and perfection to the seven FIRMAMENTS; and of all things He hath perfect knowledge
-the word FIRMAMENTS is not in the arabic, its heavens-samawat, such a lousy translation, no wonder some1 would confuse, always consult the arabic
-the word
penkallli 2 months ago
The amount of patience you show both on here and the forums is amazing, one could almost say Saintly :P
XodusFTW 2 months ago
I had really a good time watching/listening to this vid of yours. Thanks a lot! :-)
Wrath0fKhan 2 months ago
Well played, good sir. Well played. Enjoying the comment dialogue as well, appeal to authority and all.
MagneticPerturbation 2 months ago
@MagneticPerturbation
"Naggar is a clown."
Appeal to Ridicule and Personal Attack; by stopspamming, this is not the first time atheists do this, as for arguments from authority of course we all do it when we arent experts on the field were talking about, u bring ur experts I bring mine, thats how it goes
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli But in reality ... he IS a clown. A phony
CorporalNym 2 months ago
@CorporalNym
Check logical fallacies that I mentioned
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli No. I don't need to check logical fallacies.Islam IS a logical fallacy. Its very sad for you to have so many enlightened people tell you that the comical rubbish you have believed in all this time isn't real Isn't true and really is an intellectual dead end. Welcome to reality and enjoy your new freedom from superstitious childish rubbish Muslims REALLY are the first victims of Islam. Filled with a fairy tale the moment they escape the womb it stays with them all their life
CorporalNym 2 months ago
@CorporalNym
Well stopspamming the 'expert' brings a 15 year old kid, then I debunk every claim that he makes, that doesnt sound to me like really good case against Islam
Logical fallacy is made here not by me
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli Yes but stop Spamming is rational your'e simple deluded. It isn't necessary to make a case against Islam its so irrational it's pointless. How do you bring a case against something so manifestly ridiculous as the Quran? It not your fault your are deluded. After all its not as though you had any choice in the rubbish of Islam. You simply inherited it from parents and a culture that didn't know anything better or how to ask one decent question like: 'is this stuff true?'
CorporalNym 2 months ago 2
@CorporalNym
Did u say there are no experts on Islam ?!
Are u on drugs ?!
Dont claim rationality here, when u just wiped an entire population of academics of the planet, hhehe
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli A million experts of 'academics' on the Quran would not make the slightest difference to real knowledge. All you would have is a million experts on mumbo jumbo. Now goes waswas your bottom since it makes you feel superior. Off you go. As for rationality it is impossible to discuss anything with anyone who believes in irrational myths like Islam. Even a billion 'academics' of mumbo jumbo are only FULL of irrational mumbo jumbo. Go to the mosque and examine some arses
CorporalNym 2 months ago
@CorporalNym
Hehe go and wash instead of wiping !
I wash my feet more than ur sister washes her face, nuff said
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli
} ""Naggar is a clown." Appeal to Ridicule and Personal Attack; by stopspamming, this is not the first time atheists do this"
Well then get your facts straight. I have shown that Naggar spouts total nonsense and I maintain his title is a fake because I have written to him, his university and the university where he claimed he completed his Ph.D. No result, unknown.
If you can bring me his dissertation I will retract my comments and formally apologise, as atheists do.
StopSpamming1 2 months ago 5
@StopSpamming1
Contact him, its easy, ask him about his dissertation, ur just making claims without consulting the man ur researching about
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli
} "Contact him, its easy"
What part of "I have written to him" don't you understand?
StopSpamming1 2 months ago 2
I chuckled all along the way with you. Your humour is difficult to resist and I cannot help but laugh with you! And your observationsl; spot on. ' a search engine that blocks all reality and only lets the dogma in' Every Imam's dream! Misconceptions lies and Ignorance...just about sums it up for Islam
CorporalNym 2 months ago
Dr. Zaglul Nagar, PhD geology about mountains:
'Concerning the earth as a planet..The mountain chains with their deep roots in the lithosphere ..tend to subside these violent motions(rotational motion around its axis) lessen the powerful staggering of the earth's rotational axis and make the earth more stable and orderly in its rotation around the axis . The mountains also, attenuate the violent movement of the earth in such a way that a tire attenuates percussion during rotation.'
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli
As I have shown in other videos, Naggar is a clown. His Ph.D. is disputed. His "knowledge" on geology is worse than that of a 14-year-old-girl in school.
StopSpamming1 2 months ago 4
@StopSpamming1
Well I dont see u having a PhD so, sorry for not taking u over him !
penkallli 2 months ago
Dr. Zaglul Nagar, PhD geology about mountains:
'The violent motion of these plates is only calmed through the consecutive formation of mountain chains till they reach their final stage.One continent pushes the platform under the other continent till the two collide compressing the rock aggregate between them into great mountain chains extending with their wedges, which fasten the rocks of both continents together just like a wedge fastens down a tent .'
penkallli 2 months ago
What the 15 year old is bringing is false premises and not enough researched topics, its understandable
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli
And?
StopSpamming1 2 months ago
@StopSpamming1 - Excellent point....Has any non-believer ever been possessed by demons or witnessed a miracle? I know believers haven't either, but it appears by their logic supernatural events only appear to those who believe in them in the first place, and therefore susceptible to delusion.
rogan71 2 months ago
@rogan71 Great point! I Wonder if there are cross delusions which traverse religious divides? Catholics are possessed by the Devil, Muslims by jinn. I wonder if a Buddhist could encounter stigmata? Or a Muslim the 'body of Christ in a biscuit?' Each deluded religious casualty to the manifestations of their own traditions.. God works in mysterious cross cultural ways?
CorporalNym 2 months ago
@penkallli This stuff must be difficult for you. It must be hard to be reminded that you actually believe in a lot of old invented nonsense and all the mythology which has accrued around it for centuries. Islam is far too silly to be real. like SSpamming says, you really do have to switch your brain off to accept Islam as a truth. And you really do need to ask real questions about reality you live in -which the Quran has only ever guessed at. Personally, I find Islam really comical
CorporalNym 2 months ago
@CorporalNym
Islam made obligatory to me to wash myself after i defecate or urinate, u wipe, I wash my feet in a day more than ur sister washes her face,
Islam make much more sense then wiping, believe me
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli What medieval nonsense is this you spout? After I defecate or urinate? Can't you see you are simply a credulous dupe? An ill educated victim of the most stupid (religious nonsense ) ever invented by a thieving manipulating charismatic warlord who sought only to unite the disparate squabbling tribes behind him using the power of religion to fool and manipulate gullible people like yourself? Islam is complete and childlike nonsense. You're a simple casualty of a simple hoax
CorporalNym 2 months ago 2
@CorporalNym
Islam makes u wash ur but, while u in the 21st century wipe, thats what Im talking about, stinky
penkallli 2 months ago
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CorporalNym 2 months ago
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@penkallli You people really have problems with bodilly functions fluids and generally being human don't you? Do you think those Muslim policemen who beat and stripped the HIjab from the woman in Tahrir square last weekend were thinking:'Well at least my arse is clean even if my mind is full of filth. Now I can kick her in the breasts?' Islam, an obsessed ridiculous dead end. Have you though about the 'dirty' bacteria on your skin, up your nose. You people are So obsessed-like Islam
CorporalNym 2 months ago
About the sky and rain:
2:164 ..rain which Allah Sends down from the sky..and the clouds which they Trail like their slaves between the sky and the earth..
2:19 ...rain-laden cloud from the sky..
4:47..heavy-laden clouds, We drive them to a land that is dead, make rain to descend thereon..
13:12..raise up the clouds, heavy with (fertilising) rain!
-rain from the sky is general expression, clouds between the earth and sky brings rain is clearly mentioned
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli
And?
StopSpamming1 2 months ago
@StopSpamming1
And...he brought clear misconceptions, this is easy stuff
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli Yes you are right, the 15 year old was wrong about the point on rain! The connection b/w rain and clouds are one of the most obvious things that humanity would have figured out. Especially, those living in areas with a scarcity of water. The sight of clouds is a always a good sign for them.
But other than that mistake, he was pretty much right on everything else. I hope he doesn't give up rationality for the fear of a desert myth
captaindisguise 2 months ago
@captaindisguise
I was referring to the atmospheric layers, not the clouds, which are - of course - correct as such.
StopSpamming1 2 months ago
@StopSpamming1
Atmospheric layers as 7 heavens as muhaddithorg is not correct, its his view !
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli
So... Muhaddithorg is not correct anymore? Thats great! lol
Wrath0fKhan 2 months ago
@Wrath0fKha
If he means the heavens are atmospheric layers then hes wrong, I didnt say hes not correct about other things, ud make a logical fallacy that way
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli
"I didnt say hes not correct about other things"
And?
"ud make a logical fallacy that way"
As you said. Would. Not did.
When looking for logical fallacies, you should especially look into the Quran and Sahih Hadith. Hadith Qudsi will do too.
Wrath0fKhan 2 months ago
@Wrath0fKhan
Well ur buddies the "experts" on Islam make them, not me !
As for Islam ur not at my level of knowledge on Islam so leave it to ur masters here
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli
"ur buddies the "experts" on Islam make them"
No idea what you are mumbling about, buddy.
"As for Islam ur not at my level of knowledge on Islam"
Actually, its the other way around. You are not at my level of understanding of non-demonstrability (of validity) of Islam. Did you know if demonstrability is expected, yet not achieved, your hypothesis is barely worth a penny?
Wrath0fKhan 2 months ago
@Wrath0fKhan
When u learn arabic give me a call !
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli
"When u learn arabic give me a call"
As always, this "kind" of objection is utterly irrelevant. Whether I know Arabic or to what extent I know Arabic has no bearing on certain "operative truths" at all. "2+2=4" is the "same" all over the world (as in the "mechanical", "relativistic" and "quantum" approximation).
Your contempt for demonstrability is apparently the direct result of your indoctrination and the subsequent delusion which took hold of your mind.
Wrath0fKhan 2 months ago
@Wrath0fKhan
its relevant, since I find mistakes in ur masters arabic usage
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli
"its relevant"
Wrong again, buddy! You are wrong because you cant demonstrate (allegedly) demonstrable claims.
"I find mistakes in ur masters arabic usage"
You havent demonstrated any such thing. And yes, two plus two does equal four, no matter how much you dislike it. So if Allah "says" he will protect "you", yet demonstrably fails to do so, you are done.
Wrath0fKhan 2 months ago
@Wrath0fKhan
Find me 1 mistake in the quran if thats the case. I challenge u, Im going to know if u copy paste it from ur masters !
lets see, arabic is important since u make factual mistakes upon translations, then I have to correct u, and thats not my job
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli
"find me 1 mistake in the quran if t hats the case"
Ok... Find me the setting place of the Sun.
"factual mistakes upon translations"
I can easily refer to expertly crafted Quranic interpretations, traditional Arabic dictionaries, lexicons, etc. Denying 2+2=4 is foolish, buddy. Concerning "this" youve been corrected so many times, yet you still dont get it.
Wrath0fKhan 2 months ago
@Wrath0fKhan
Read the commentary of the verse and ull see what its talking about, its that easy, something else ?
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli
"read the commentary"
Is that it? You are a joke, buddy.
"something else"
Plenty of crackpotism, indeed. However, since you are unable to respond properly to one issue raised only, there is no need to rush to the next problem. Take your time!
Wrath0fKhan 2 months ago
@Wrath0fKhan
Theres a book called ibn kathir go and check this verse, do ur homework, ur saying its error not me !
Take ur time and read it
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli
"Take ur time and read it"
Are you really that stupid? You really think I havent done that long time ago? Kathir (who was more educated than you, since he lived in the 14th century and you still live in the 7th century) claims that its impossible to reach that "point." Yet the Quran explicitly states that he reached it and found it setting "there and there." We know, this is practically impossible.
Next...
Wrath0fKhan 2 months ago
@Wrath0fKhan
"(he found it setting in a spring of Hami'ah) meaning, he saw the sun as if it were setting in the ocean."
-I trust Ibn Kathir more than u, thats why learn what kind of idioms the quran uses before talking ! It seems arabic is needed after all
Tafsir Jalalayn-" its setting in a spring is [described as seen] from the perspective of the eye"
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli
"found setting meaning, he saw"
Found setting =! he saw.
"setting in a spring is from the perspective of the eye"
Again, found setting =! perspective of the eye. Remember? He found it setting, that is, he found the very place of "Suns setting." There is no such place of course.
"I trust "so and so" more"
Since when is that so? Just read through your stupid commentary. You are becoming more and more inconsistent, buddy.
Next...
Wrath0fKhan 2 months ago
@Wrath0fKhan
From the perspective of the eye means its not really happening, its simple english !
Baydawi: "{ وَجَدَهَا تَغْرُبُ } ولم يقل كانت تغرب" - he found it setting- didnt say it the sun did set there" from the arabic language -wajadaha tagrubu, doesnt mean it actually sets
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli
"from the perspective of the eye"
The Quran doesnt say so.
"he found it setting- didnt say it the sun did set there"
He "actually" found it setting there. Thats more than just "it set there." Its more because It set there and in addition he found it and hence confirmed the "fact". The problem here is, one never can find the setting place of the Sun, because it always "sets" over the horizon.
Next...
Wrath0fKhan 2 months ago
@Wrath0fKhan
"when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People"
- If the sun did set in a murky water, how could the people live near it, when the sun burns, the arabs know it, unless its the perspective of the eye !
Its clear from the context and the arabic used what this means, mufasirs agree on this, the only one disagreeing is u, a person who doesnt know arabic and islamic text,
-We follow the scholars not laymen
Next
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli
"how could the people live near it"
Apply Hadith Qudsi 35 and Allah will surely reveal this secret to you. Concerning the "people", they could have easily lived on a peninsula and the Sun was simply setting next to them.
"clear from context"
Yea... He found the setting place. So it must exist, right?
"scholars"
Read your own garbage first and better try to stay more consistent. Lastly; stop equivocating.
Next...
Wrath0fKhan 2 months ago
@Wrath0fKhan
hehe, the hadith qudsiy in question is not taken literally as u want to take the verse literally, false analogy
-If the found the sun setting there and he found also the people leaving near it, which is impossible since that happens only in the day of judgement by hadith
-Scholars that I quote confirm my position
next..
penkallli 2 months ago
@Wrath0fKhan
heres another scholar Mawardi: الثاني: أنه وجدها تغرب وراء العين حتى كأنها تغيب في نفس العين.
The same as Razi, ibn Kathir, Baydawi, Suyuti, Kurtubi etc
-it seems ur list of false analogies gets thin
penkallli 2 months ago
@Wrath0fKhan
"they could have easily lived on a peninsula"
-Where is it mentioned in the quran ? Oohh u just invented this explanation without evidence, hehe
penkallli 2 months ago
@Wrath0fKhan
Ibn Atiyah: يرى الرائي لـ { عين حمئة - from the perspective of the eye
O my god another scholar, saying the same thing, should I continue, hehe...
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli
But he found the "actual place", didnt he.
Next...
Wrath0fKhan 2 months ago
@Wrath0fKhan
Ibn Jawzi: "كما يرى راكب البحر الذي لا يرى طَرَفه أن الشمس تغيب في الماء، وذلك لأن ذا القرنين انتهى إلى آخر البنيان فوجد عيناً حَمِئة ليس بعدها أح"- as if it sets like the one looking the sun on the seashore...
-- O my God another scholar, this is getting funny !
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli
"as if it sets"
The Quran doesnt say that, right? It doesnt say "as if." It says? Come one now, buddy, fill in the blanks.
Next...
Wrath0fKhan 2 months ago
@Wrath0fKhan
I can find many verses where the quran uses such speech, but we see the context and what it meant, of course scholars of the text, come the same conclusion
No1 says the actual place, its a figurative speech, it hides the place from the reader, ex. I went to the place where sun sets in a burning volcano !
Im describing the place hiding its location, this is literary device, if we mean literally we cant say he also found people near it, when hadith text denies that
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli
"context"
So... What is the context of finding that place?
"of course scholars"
Yea... "Scholars" from 500 year after the Quran, when they got a little bit more educated and new they had to equivocate to save the plain dogma.
"figurative"
Really... So when I find the place of the setting Sun its just figurative (place). So I actually didnt find it. Why would I claim that I did? To fool the gullible? Stop discrediting yourself.
Wrath0fKhan 2 months ago
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@Wrath0fKhan "from 500 year after the Quran"
Fact of the matter is, Arabs started learning Hellenic astronomy starting in early 8th century. So of course the scholars cited by Penkali would want to reinterpret what the quran obviously says!
Funny enough there are two hadiths where muhammad directly says the sun "sets in a warm spring"
1) Sunan Abu Dawud (30:4002)
2) Musnad Ahmad 20948
" فَإِنَّهَا تَغْرُبُ فِي عَيْنٍ حَامِئَةٍ "
captaindisguise 2 months ago 2
@captaindisguise
"Arabs started leaning Hellenic astronomy starting in early 8th century"
Indeed. "Fortunately" for us detractors (of traditional Islam) this new knowledge got incorporated into the Islamic cannon much later. Your two additional examples beautifully support this theory, too.
Wrath0fKhan 2 months ago
@Wrath0fKhan
""Arabs started leaning Hellenic astronomy starting in early 8th century"
- I thought prophet Muhamed already copied from Galen and others when forming Quran, it seems it didnt start in 7th centuty but 8th
IbnAbas doesnt say earth is flat, find this magical saying !
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli Odd how you people deny the rhetoric which indicates a flat earth but jump on the rhetoric which implies a big bang. The Answer is always in the the rhetoric and what you chumps claim it means. Humpty Dumpty springs to mind
CorporalNym 2 months ago
@CorporalNym
Well
1. no1 mentions earth is flat
2. U claim arabs started greek astronomy in 8th cent
2. Then u claim prophet Muhamed copies from Galen and other greeks, in the 7th cent
which is it ?!
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli I said the rhetoric points to a flat earth. Or can be interpreted that way. I mean the name of the game you're playing here is interpretation of the Quran. I made no claims concerning Greek astronomy. I do wonder if the Greeks may have seen any flying horses whilst gazing upward on those starry nights though.
CorporalNym 2 months ago
@CorporalNym
It cant since we have other text from the same context !
maybe greeks believed in gods and founf it rational to do so, hmmm...
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli May be you believe in gods and find it rational? The irrational do imagine they are rational that's the nature of irrationality.
CorporalNym 2 months ago
@penkallli
"I thought prophet Muhamed already copied from Galen"
Surely not directly. Indirectly he (or whoever came up with those texts) apparently did.
Wrath0fKhan 2 months ago
@Wrath0fKhan
What not directly, give evidence for this !
i can say Im from mars too
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli
"Im from mars too"
Are you? How come you are not locked up in a lab and being studied by NASA and co? And if you can say anything, and that anything is plain nonsense, does it mean if the Quran says anything it is nonsense, too?
"evidence"
Galen lived in the 2nd/3rd century, right? See Britannica to learn about this fact. Uncle Mo supposedly lived in the 6th/7th century, right? Again, see Britannica to learn about this supposed fact. So... 2+2 still equals 4, right?
Wrath0fKhan 2 months ago
@Wrath0fKhan
Well thats the problem with ur interpretations of interpretations !
If prophet copied from the greeks its hard to believe he didnt come across round earth !
To say arabs started hellenic astronomy studies in 8th cent, while at the same time saying the prophet did that earlier for embryology and believed flat earth, is pure fantasy
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli
"hard to believe"
No its not hard to believe. These are two completely different branches. One is medicine, the other is cosmology.
"did that earlier for embryology and believed flat earth is pure fantasy"
Is it? Or was the prophit rather interested in medicine, which was much more practical (and gave him a real advantage) than some cosmic mumbling? Who taught "him" all the stuff? A cosmologist or rather a doctor (i.e. al-Harith)?
Wrath0fKhan 2 months ago
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@penkallli "I thought prophet Muhamed already copied from Galen and others when forming Quran, it seems it didnt start in 7th centuty but 8th"
Plagiarism does not mean one has to "read" the other's books or works.
For example, If I came out today and said "I have discovered the theory of evolution all by myself and that I have never read any of the works written by Darwin"...it would still constitute as plagiarism. Obviously, I could HEAR about evolution by just being alive.
captaindisguise 2 months ago
@Wrath0fKhan
These are scholars of the high caliber all say the same thing, u claim the opposite, Im with the scholars !
- hadith of the day of judgement says that the sun will be 1 mile above the heads of people, they will no die but sweat till their ankles, their necks etc, ur interpretation doesnt make sense
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli
"scholars of high caliber"
This saying of yours doesnt change anything what I and others here have said (and even "documented").
"1 mile"
From your reference to "judgment day" the jump to "your interpretation doesnt make sense" simply does not logically follow.
Wrath0fKhan 2 months ago
@Wrath0fKhan
Uve addressed why the hadith about the sun going to the throne is not literal in meaning !
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli
"not literal"
Well... What is the throne then? Where is it? Where does the Sun go, to turn up in the same place the next day? Why does it need permission from Allah to do so? These are clearly descriptions of geocentric cosmologies.
Wrath0fKhan 2 months ago
@Wrath0fKhan
1) The throne is above the 7th heaven
2) Theres hadith that the sun raises between the horns of satan, which is not literal in meaning
3) An affait goes to allah from the heavens in time span of 1000 years according to quran sura sajdah, the sun supposedly went for just a few hours
4) if the earth is flat we would see the sun going up again, since the throne is upwards not below a flat earth !
-- ur interpretation doesnt make sense in light of other text
penkallli 2 months ago
Wrath0fKhan 2 months ago
@Wrath0fKhan
Well u say prophet believed in flat earth right ?
he identified heaven as above the earth, not the sun goes down, but the arsh is above the heaven not beneath the earth, the sun to travel to the arsh it needs to go upwards, not downwards ! In that case we would see the sun rise again
Doesnt fit with other text of the same nature
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli
"go upwards"
Self-exposed! LOL
Wrath0fKhan 2 months ago
@Wrath0fKhan
Sun prostrating, is this literal, like we prostrate ?!
The arsh is above the heavens according to hadith, its not below, to travel u need thousands of years according to hadith
I interpret the hadith with other hadith, I dont pick and choose !
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli
"sun prostrating is this literal, like we prostrate"
Well, obviously not literal, because the Sun has no legs and arms, etc. Yet it does prostrate under Allahs throne, right? So how does it do that? Just as every other sun does. Didnt you know? Take a telescope and have a look! lol
"i dont pick and choose"
No... You are denying reality. You are denying 2+2=4. lol
Wrath0fKhan 2 months ago
@Wrath0fKhan
I gave ahadith and verses for my inerpretation u gave, just an opinion !
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli you mean inept -pretation?
CorporalNym 2 months ago
@CorporalNym
no I mean, Innamal Mushrikin Najas
U would interpret it as literally najas, hehe
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli ....Derp?
CorporalNym 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@penkallli penkallli - obviously...it's an expression...a poem, as is the Quran only without the ugliness... The difference is that believing we are literally all one is fundamentally less divisive than believing in the camps of Islam and non-Islam.
rogan71 2 months ago 3
@penkallli
"hadith text"
Excellent! The hadith text "paints" a more precise picture of early Muhammadan cosmology.
Lets have a look!
Wrath0fKhan 2 months ago
@Wrath0fKhan
The hadith about the throne and the sun is also figurative, reasons:
1) we have other ahadith taking about that, the sun raises between the horns of Satan, find me 1 person that interpret it literally !
2) The throne is above the 7th heaven and Kursiy, the earth is in the 1st
3) if the sun goes for several hours up to the throne, how can be back so soon, when "(all affairs) go up to Him, on a Day, the space whereof will be (as) a thousand years of your reckoning. "
penkallli 2 months ago
@Wrath0fKhan
So we have 1000 years travel up to God from the heavens, and by ur interpretation it returns just after few hours
4) Prostration is figurative, even atheists recognize this, sun and all other things prostrate to God we dont know how
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli
Bukhari 4.54.420:
"...He said, "It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west..."
Wrath0fKhan 2 months ago
@penkallli
Bukhari 9.93.520:
"...He said, "It goes and asks permission to prostrate, and it is allowed, and (one day) it, as if being ordered to return whence it came, then it will rise from the west..."
Wrath0fKhan 2 months ago
@penkallli
Muslim 001.0297:
"...Verily it (the sun) glides till it reaches its resting place under the Throne. Then it falls prostrate and remains there until it is asked: Rise up and go to the place whence you came, and it goes back and continues emerging out from its rising place and then glides till it reaches its place of rest under the Throne..."
Wrath0fKhan 2 months ago
@penkallli "Ibn Jawzi" "Ibn Atiyya" "Razi" etc
LOL How ironic that you take these scholars (all of whom who lived during or after Arabs academically started studying hellenic science and hence were aware that the earth wasn't flat and that there was no setting place"), you want to take the word of the commentators now BUT in my video called "Leech like thing" when I quoted the same scholars with TWENTY others who saying we were a clot of blood, you said they are all wrong! Wow lol
captaindisguise 2 months ago 3
@captaindisguise
Alak is not just blood clot, it seems u dont understand english,
Go and translate alak to arabic I challenge u, see what u get
Blood clot is not translated as Alak,
The same mistake with klngschor, i challenged him to translate Galen in arabic and see if it is Alak, of course its not,
-The big irony is that, u claim the prophet plagiarized from the greeks in embryology, while not getting from them that the earth was round ! Thats funny actually
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli "The big irony is that ... earth was round
I wouldn't have had a problem if there weren't statements like "setting in a spring" etc. Which is why the analogy of evolution. Evolution is established as a fact by the scientists today but I am sure if Muhammad lived today, he would have been one of those pesky evolution denying creationists, but this does not cut him off to access any of the scientific info of the day :)
captaindisguise 2 months ago
@penkallli "ibn kathir ...homework,"
Is this the same Ibn Kathir that said
(31:29) "Ibn `Abbas said, "The sun is like flowing water, running in its course in the sky during the day. When it sets, it travels in its course beneath the earth until it rises in the east.''
Ibn Kathir lived in the 14th century when everyone knew that the earth was spherical and that the sun and moon were far away from earth. Where is your evidence this is what Muhammad believed?
captaindisguise 2 months ago
@captaindisguise
Prophet Muhamed didnt elaborate, so we have interpretations of the verses, which we cant take literally since we have other texts of the same nature and context ! U cant pick and choose
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli THis is what I love about you."Prophet Muhamed didn't elaborate" You really think its all real don't you?That Mo really was a 'prophet' rather than a wily old warlord and pirate who attempted to unite the squabbling tribes and their many 'gods' under his new 'one god'. Which he conveniently became the prophet for. Understanding the power of religion to dupe frighten and manipulate the dull and the dim he proceeds to invent revelations and the hoax known as Islam is born
CorporalNym 2 months ago
@CorporalNym
haha
Its basic premise in philosophy of science, that the material world exists, if u have other belief its ur opinion !
My rational thought using mind and text is coherent and logical
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli You claim 'rational thought' and using your mind and 'logic' to make the text of ancient mumbo jumbo validate your childlike beliefs? Nothing logical or coherent about that. Just simple wishful thinking and confirmation bias. Islam frightens its children with mumbo jumbo the second they escape the womb. Like drops of sealing wax it sticks to their psyches and they remain children all their lives frightened of Allah and his Hell
CorporalNym 2 months ago 2
@CorporalNym
Ur premises are wrong thus ur conclusion is wrong too !
Its not mumbo jumbo, its the highest literature in arabic ever conceived !
until u get over ur prejudices its difficult ull understand something
-As for Alak, this shows the importance of the arabic text, not translations, caprain and others were wondering where does leech like thing comes well its from the arabic of Ibn Kathir, the english translators lapsed !
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallIi "Its not mumbo jumbo, its the highest literature in Arabic ever conceived !" Says who?
Keep taking the medication and stay away from sharp things, keep your bottom clean and by bye.
CorporalNym 2 months ago
@CorporalNym
say the scholars of arabic, the PhDs of the text, hehe
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli Sholars of mumbo jumbo.
CorporalNym 2 months ago
@CorporalNym
U calling it mumbo jumbo doesnt make it so, Im not sure u understand this right
This coming from a person who doesnt not understand arabic, ignoramus ad infinitum
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli All this stuff about a hoax called Islam coming from a mentally damaged casualty of the daftest nastiest religion ever to insult the fabric of the universe. You will get far more real nourishment from the Quran if you eat it. Understanding Arabic does not prevent you from being a credulous dupe. It actually encourages it. Bollox is still bollox even in Arabic.
CorporalNym 2 months ago
@CorporalNym
Just hot steam, u arent bringing anything that confirms what u said !
hehe
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli I don't need to. Because I do not give the Quran or Islam any intellectual credibility whatsoever. To actually give you and your potty beliefs any credibility would be to stoop to your level of irrationality. Is it possible that within your mythological beliefs that Mo's night journey was a 'metaphorical spiritual journey'- not that I care I merely want to know if you actually think Al Buraq was a real creature... within your delusional religious paradigm?
CorporalNym 2 months ago
@penkallli "since we have other texts of the same nature and context ! U cant pick and choose"
Where did I pick and choose? All the tafsirs state it is a blood clot. Why should i take their word over yours? Anyone with honesty would see that Mr Mo was as wrong as it gets
"Blood clot is not translated as Alak"
- lane lexicon - "or the seminal fluid, after its appearance, when it becomes thick, clotted, blood... (Msb [See Kuran xxiii. 14)"
- pwned ?
captaindisguise 2 months ago
@captaindisguise
All tafsirs dont say blood clot ONLY ! Do u understand or not, this is why ur attacking Hamza on which is ridiculous
Ibn Kathir says: it becomes a clot, like an elongated leech
The words for clot and leech here is alak
When u translate alak into arabic u wont get blood clot
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli Why are you still dishonestly leaving out the part after your (reinterpreted and mistranslated) sentence. Ibn Kathir then goes to quote Ikrimah , Muhamamad's companion
"`Ikrimah said, "This is blood.''"
Game over my friend :)
captaindisguise 2 months ago
@captaindisguise
Im not interested in Ikrimahs opinion, Im interested in the mistranslation, hehe
penkallli 2 months ago
@captaindisguise
Ibn Abbas is talking from the our perspective, in order to prove that IbnAbbas believed the earth is flat, u have to bring
1) Ibn Abas' statement that the earth is flat
its that simple, of course well check the isnad, since Tafsir IbnAbas does not exist, its like IbnIshak, its attributed to him by other scholars !
penkallli 2 months ago
@penkallli