I carefully listen all 4 parts of the presentation and have to tell that 8 or 9 points (at least at this moment) are very questionable, to put it softly. I do not want to belittle Mr. Pappe as a historian, but as a persong who has read historical literature and documents, I expected the more convinsing presentation. Constant reference to "palestinians" with respect to the time is one of those points... At times sounds like political speech rather then historical evaluation.
mention jews. israel even if it was demoniacally established [like u proclaim] is a ray of light for the world, for democracy and yes its hard to believe but for the middle east. your[and others like u] poisonous words r only making things worse and dragging us down, and will eventually bring not peace or justice but massive destruction and death. if you proclaim israel was established in demonic way, demonizing israel wont solve the problem. "the problems we have can not b solved at the same...
[one can argue about what really happened] might b true, but its not the truth.
now lets assume all u say is right whats the next move, allowing all the pale' refugees back to their homes and eliminating israel. turning it into an all citizen country in which the jews will b a minority and will eventually b subjected to the same fate as other minoritys in arab countrys. there isnt one,one arab democratic state . homosexuals\women/christians and minorities have no place in those countrys not to
r commemorating the conflict. people look up to u as a hero, i c the exact opposite, a small stubborn and closed minded person. yes the fact u c the pale' "justice" and advocate it so "bravely" does not make you a part of the solution but a part of the problem despite what u and your followers believe. u r showing a "truth" which is so narrow egotistical& un enlightened its depressing. thats right the fact pale' were driven from their land /zionists stole the land/ got cleansed from the land..
present first the "dry facts" and than "dress" them up with his point of view. beside i dont really understand what u wish to achieve Mr pappe. justice for the palestinians? lets say u r correct the zionistz stole the land, they r cleansing and have been cleansing the land for decades and this was all a devilish plan from the begining. what now, how r u contributing to the situation? u think you will bring justice to the pale? well u r only going to make it worse. u r not giving solutions you..
ive just finished watching the whole lecture and i dont even know where to start. it shouldnt b difficult refuting alot of the things Mr pappe said. u cannot address this lecture in search for an objective an informative one because it isnt so. pappe is constantly describing the issues from his point of view and through his political glasses. of course its his lecture and he is entitled to do so but when one wishes to describe historical and political events one can at least try and...
"Norman Finkelstein's opinion is of no value to me. I haven't read any of his books and I don't intend to. The titles of his books already suggest that he's no objective, neutral historian." - But Dershowitz book "The Case for Israel" sounds objective to you?? Lol
And i dont see how you can praise both Pape and Dershowitz at the same time. Isnt Dershowitz saying somtehing along the line that there where no or few palestinians to begin with in palestine, wheres Pape says the where (and of course they were) and that the got etchnically cleansed? And very mature of u to call Finkelstein a Nazi. Hes parent are holocust survivors and his hole extendet family got exterminiated in the holocaust. But i guess thats the best argument u could come up with?
Well Norman Finkelstein may be biased but the proofs he put forward speeks for themsselves. So does hes readin of Alan Dershowitz book and then hes readin of Joan Peters book, where he clearly shows Joan Peters book isa fraud and a hoax, and even worse that Dershowitz have basically plagiarised that book. Its obvious both from their debate (ive never seen anybody get as humiliated as Dershowitz gets there) and his book beyond Chutzpa.
warmperson2007 - That book is a fraud as Norman G. Finkelstein expose in his book beyond Chutspa and as you can see from a debate with them here on youtube.
Norman Finkelstein's opinion is of no value to me. I haven't read any of his books and I don't intend to. The titles of his books already suggest that he's no objective, neutral historian.
Besides, from what I see on the internet, he is the darling of neo-nazis as well as radical islamists. To me it says a lot.
I am not going to contaminate my mind with cheap political pamphlets.
Dr Pappe is a brilliant and very inspiring scholar. And so is Mr Dershowitz. Both are the voice of reason
@warmperson2007 "cheap political pamphlets" ? That sounds like Dershowitz's shoddy work.
By contrast, Finkelstein's 'Image and Reality of the Israel-Palestine Conflict' is 200 pages of citation-dense scholarship, much of which is reworked material from the doctoral dissertation he wrote at Princeton. You'll find it listed in Benny Morris's bibliography for his standard history, 'Righteous Victims'.
Does he want to say that the Mr Dershowitz is not the author of the book called "The Case For Israel"? That's fine with! It's the contents that matters. And the contents is brilliantly penetrating, the approach is lucid and convincing. Whoever wrote the book, it's definitely a book to read. And so is Ilan Pappe's "A History of Modern Palestine".
Yes! I have read his book "A History of Modern Palestine". It's good!
But another great man who has a clear understanding of the situation in Palestine is Alan Dershowitz. I am reading right now "The Case For Israel". A book everyone should read. It's excellent!
I carefully listen all 4 parts of the presentation and have to tell that 8 or 9 points (at least at this moment) are very questionable, to put it softly. I do not want to belittle Mr. Pappe as a historian, but as a persong who has read historical literature and documents, I expected the more convinsing presentation. Constant reference to "palestinians" with respect to the time is one of those points... At times sounds like political speech rather then historical evaluation.
vladior1 10 months ago
level of thinking with which we created them"
[Albert Einstien]
alonee810 11 months ago
mention jews. israel even if it was demoniacally established [like u proclaim] is a ray of light for the world, for democracy and yes its hard to believe but for the middle east. your[and others like u] poisonous words r only making things worse and dragging us down, and will eventually bring not peace or justice but massive destruction and death. if you proclaim israel was established in demonic way, demonizing israel wont solve the problem. "the problems we have can not b solved at the same...
alonee810 11 months ago
[one can argue about what really happened] might b true, but its not the truth.
now lets assume all u say is right whats the next move, allowing all the pale' refugees back to their homes and eliminating israel. turning it into an all citizen country in which the jews will b a minority and will eventually b subjected to the same fate as other minoritys in arab countrys. there isnt one,one arab democratic state . homosexuals\women/christians and minorities have no place in those countrys not to
alonee810 11 months ago
r commemorating the conflict. people look up to u as a hero, i c the exact opposite, a small stubborn and closed minded person. yes the fact u c the pale' "justice" and advocate it so "bravely" does not make you a part of the solution but a part of the problem despite what u and your followers believe. u r showing a "truth" which is so narrow egotistical& un enlightened its depressing. thats right the fact pale' were driven from their land /zionists stole the land/ got cleansed from the land..
alonee810 11 months ago
present first the "dry facts" and than "dress" them up with his point of view. beside i dont really understand what u wish to achieve Mr pappe. justice for the palestinians? lets say u r correct the zionistz stole the land, they r cleansing and have been cleansing the land for decades and this was all a devilish plan from the begining. what now, how r u contributing to the situation? u think you will bring justice to the pale? well u r only going to make it worse. u r not giving solutions you..
alonee810 11 months ago
ive just finished watching the whole lecture and i dont even know where to start. it shouldnt b difficult refuting alot of the things Mr pappe said. u cannot address this lecture in search for an objective an informative one because it isnt so. pappe is constantly describing the issues from his point of view and through his political glasses. of course its his lecture and he is entitled to do so but when one wishes to describe historical and political events one can at least try and...
alonee810 11 months ago
Google or go to B & N or Amazon and read excerpts or purchase "At What Price Israel?" authored by Alfred M. Lilienthal, published 1953.
jereuter01 1 year ago
Benny Morris: You cannot rely on one sentence in Ilan Pappe's book
wanderquestion 2 years ago
Great lecture!
CaptainRedHat 3 years ago
"Norman Finkelstein's opinion is of no value to me. I haven't read any of his books and I don't intend to. The titles of his books already suggest that he's no objective, neutral historian." - But Dershowitz book "The Case for Israel" sounds objective to you?? Lol
Evokee1 3 years ago 3
And i dont see how you can praise both Pape and Dershowitz at the same time. Isnt Dershowitz saying somtehing along the line that there where no or few palestinians to begin with in palestine, wheres Pape says the where (and of course they were) and that the got etchnically cleansed? And very mature of u to call Finkelstein a Nazi. Hes parent are holocust survivors and his hole extendet family got exterminiated in the holocaust. But i guess thats the best argument u could come up with?
Evokee1 3 years ago 5
Did I call Finkelstein a nazi? You're piece of shit!!!
warmperson2007 3 years ago
Well Norman Finkelstein may be biased but the proofs he put forward speeks for themsselves. So does hes readin of Alan Dershowitz book and then hes readin of Joan Peters book, where he clearly shows Joan Peters book isa fraud and a hoax, and even worse that Dershowitz have basically plagiarised that book. Its obvious both from their debate (ive never seen anybody get as humiliated as Dershowitz gets there) and his book beyond Chutzpa.
Evokee1 3 years ago 2
warmperson2007 - That book is a fraud as Norman G. Finkelstein expose in his book beyond Chutspa and as you can see from a debate with them here on youtube.
Evokee1 3 years ago
Norman Finkelstein's opinion is of no value to me. I haven't read any of his books and I don't intend to. The titles of his books already suggest that he's no objective, neutral historian.
Besides, from what I see on the internet, he is the darling of neo-nazis as well as radical islamists. To me it says a lot.
I am not going to contaminate my mind with cheap political pamphlets.
Dr Pappe is a brilliant and very inspiring scholar. And so is Mr Dershowitz. Both are the voice of reason
warmperson2007 3 years ago
@warmperson2007 "cheap political pamphlets" ? That sounds like Dershowitz's shoddy work.
By contrast, Finkelstein's 'Image and Reality of the Israel-Palestine Conflict' is 200 pages of citation-dense scholarship, much of which is reworked material from the doctoral dissertation he wrote at Princeton. You'll find it listed in Benny Morris's bibliography for his standard history, 'Righteous Victims'.
meshzzizk 1 year ago
Does he want to say that the Mr Dershowitz is not the author of the book called "The Case For Israel"? That's fine with! It's the contents that matters. And the contents is brilliantly penetrating, the approach is lucid and convincing. Whoever wrote the book, it's definitely a book to read. And so is Ilan Pappe's "A History of Modern Palestine".
warmperson2007 3 years ago
GreatMan Who has a clear understanding of the situation in palestine
hanysal 4 years ago 4
Yes! I have read his book "A History of Modern Palestine". It's good!
But another great man who has a clear understanding of the situation in Palestine is Alan Dershowitz. I am reading right now "The Case For Israel". A book everyone should read. It's excellent!
warmperson2007 4 years ago
sick asshole
IDFgermany 4 years ago
I LOVE YOU ILAN PAPPY... I have met you in 2005 in the US and loved your lecture.
I am sorry that you have to leave Paletine/Israel to live in England but where ever you are I am sure you'll continue working for JUSTICE..
you are a true HERO.
Tayma 4 years ago
Israel is a free society. Unlike the arab countries it allows freedom of speech. Ilan did not have to leave Israel, he choose to leave Israel.
avivlavee 4 years ago