I find it amazing when some elements of ancient languages seem to be part of modern slang in some languages. In Costa Rica, young people in slang are called "Puer" in a derogatory way. The sound of the letter "b" in Costa Rica is almost mute so words like "libro" could be written "livro" or "liuro" and still be pronounced similarly. Between vowels, the "b" sound tends to disappear, so "Puber" and "Puer" would sound identical. The origin of "puer" is not known locally though.
Greek had a massive influence on the Latin language, especially in Vulgar Latin. If you listen to the slave in the film, he has some Greek elements in his speech.
There are other sources that give us information about the pronunciation of Latin (graffiti, spelling mistakes in literature, evidence from Latin grammaticians etc.) However, they may only tell us about the Latin spoken in a particular area of the Roman Empire. In Spain for example, there was confusion between the 'b' and the 'v'. (Beati hispani quibus bibere vivere est! - "Happy are the Spaniards for whom to drink is to live"!)
You´re right that the Romance languages can give us some important clues as to how Latin was pronounced, but they can only indicate tendencies. Even in Roman times Latin was spoken differently throughout the whole Empire. At no time in any language has there ever been a homogenous pronunciation and Latin was a second or third language for many people. The actors in this film have different accents too but all show similar tendencies (loss of the final 'm' of a word before a vowel etc.)
They sound like foreign people speaking a foreign language. Too slow, too careful. I think that to research what spoken Latin may have sounded like you have to pay attention what modern romance languages have in common. For example, in all modern languages the word Veritas is accented at the end. Veritá, Verdad, Verdade. At least Veritas should have had an equal length in "Ve" and "Tas" to sound like what would evolve to be the modern words.
There are also very interesting similarities between for example, Spanish, Romanian, Italian and even french accents that hint of the way spoken Latin could have sounded. Certain patterns of speech are common to all four languages. I have also heard those patterns in spoken Greek, but I assume the connection between Greek and Latin explains those patterns, since Romans may have been willing at a certain point in history to emulate Greeks in more than one aspect.
@imshadi The Romance forms "verita'", "verdad", etc., derive from the accusative Latin form "veritatem" rather than the nominative "veritas". This is why they are accented on the "a". However, you're exactly right about the "e" and "a" in "veritas" being long.
Illas duas mulieres formosas sunt...
filhodovento20 1 month ago
It's nice :)
Pollux6721 2 months ago
I find it amazing when some elements of ancient languages seem to be part of modern slang in some languages. In Costa Rica, young people in slang are called "Puer" in a derogatory way. The sound of the letter "b" in Costa Rica is almost mute so words like "libro" could be written "livro" or "liuro" and still be pronounced similarly. Between vowels, the "b" sound tends to disappear, so "Puber" and "Puer" would sound identical. The origin of "puer" is not known locally though.
imshadi 4 months ago
Greek had a massive influence on the Latin language, especially in Vulgar Latin. If you listen to the slave in the film, he has some Greek elements in his speech.
matrona22 8 months ago
@matrona22 I think it's because maybe they both descend from Indo-European.
gnosis/noscere
schizein/scindere
filhodovento20 1 month ago
There are other sources that give us information about the pronunciation of Latin (graffiti, spelling mistakes in literature, evidence from Latin grammaticians etc.) However, they may only tell us about the Latin spoken in a particular area of the Roman Empire. In Spain for example, there was confusion between the 'b' and the 'v'. (Beati hispani quibus bibere vivere est! - "Happy are the Spaniards for whom to drink is to live"!)
matrona22 8 months ago
You´re right that the Romance languages can give us some important clues as to how Latin was pronounced, but they can only indicate tendencies. Even in Roman times Latin was spoken differently throughout the whole Empire. At no time in any language has there ever been a homogenous pronunciation and Latin was a second or third language for many people. The actors in this film have different accents too but all show similar tendencies (loss of the final 'm' of a word before a vowel etc.)
matrona22 8 months ago
They sound like foreign people speaking a foreign language. Too slow, too careful. I think that to research what spoken Latin may have sounded like you have to pay attention what modern romance languages have in common. For example, in all modern languages the word Veritas is accented at the end. Veritá, Verdad, Verdade. At least Veritas should have had an equal length in "Ve" and "Tas" to sound like what would evolve to be the modern words.
imshadi 8 months ago
There are also very interesting similarities between for example, Spanish, Romanian, Italian and even french accents that hint of the way spoken Latin could have sounded. Certain patterns of speech are common to all four languages. I have also heard those patterns in spoken Greek, but I assume the connection between Greek and Latin explains those patterns, since Romans may have been willing at a certain point in history to emulate Greeks in more than one aspect.
imshadi 8 months ago
@imshadi Greek and Latin are also sister languages in the Indo-European language family
lezlie2k2 8 months ago
@imshadi The Romance forms "verita'", "verdad", etc., derive from the accusative Latin form "veritatem" rather than the nominative "veritas". This is why they are accented on the "a". However, you're exactly right about the "e" and "a" in "veritas" being long.
StMartinTours 4 months ago
@StMartinTours Thanks for your clarification. Love it when I can learn something new!
imshadi 4 months ago