Grant Palmer didn't write a "factual" book. The fact that you even say that shows your own level of ignorance. He makes up fantasy stuff such as the "Golden Pot" etc. But just as any anti-mormon book, he ignores facts that would debunk his conclusions, and he promotes heresay and opinion has evidence. Further, he's been an anti-mormon for some 25 years, while pretending to be a faithful mormon working for the Church. If that's YOUR version of truth, enjoy your devil worship.
Does it matter whether Mormons are "true Christians" or not. The whole concept of Christianity is a myth. Mormonism is just a myth built upon another myth.
for thought: Joseph Smith was a Prophet that later fell from grace( like many men in power do) we know he lost some scripture and , and sought after high government offices. Opened a bank and lost the money. To me it seems he fell. Just like king Saul. Maybe wasn't a martyr at all but his own people killed him after losing their money and Joseph taking their wives.
But what is a mainstream christian church. I don't trust most christians because of their fanatical view of the bible and ignorance of world history and science. EVENTUALLY CHRISTIANITY WILL DIE when some one will say jesus is not coming back.
I agree that on the General Authority level, the emphasis on Jesus Christ doesn't seem to be suffering as much as it is on the local levels. Perhaps this is also recognized as a problem by the General Authorities. In the past few years, more Christ-centered reference material has been published, such as 'Teaching, No Greater Call" and "Preach My Gospel." And, for 2010, the Priesthood and Relief Society study manual is "Gospel Principles" as opposed to the "Teachings of the Prophets" series.
Thanks should be given to Grant Palmer for his firm stand. After a lifetime of faithfull service, they blast him for telling the truth. pathetic! They can't handle the truth.
It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.
Psalms 118:8
..behold, now [is] the day of salvation-2 Cr.6:2.
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore CHOOSE LIFE, that both thou and thy seed may live.--Deu 30:19.
Jesus saith unto him, I AM the way, the truth, and THE LIFE: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.--John 14:6.
Oh, and before my last post gets taken out of context, I'd like to say that I'm NOT putting Jesus on any equal plane with Joseph Smith just as I don't believe Christians put Paul on the same level as Jesus, it's just that certain revealed truths have been given to each apostle/prophet by God so that everything will fit together in one nice package called the gospel. But my Lord and Savior CLEARLY takes #1 priority in that through Him and His wonderful sacrifice, I can truly have eternal life.
Either you are lying or don't know Mormon history.
"no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith. ...every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are.--Brigham Young JoD vol 7 ch 14 pg 289."
Bible facts: Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.--John 14:6
I know the history just fine: I hold that statement no different than I do 1 Corinthians 14:33-36 (women not permitted to speak in church). Both statements were made with the knowledge of the times. As you and I both know, knowledge grows and expands. Incorrect statements made in the Bible by ancient prophets, or incorrect statements made in the latter days do not impact the reality of Jesus Christ or his continuing revelations and love for you and I.
So which one is it? Joseph or Jesus? I don't want other Bible verses or other cut and dried explainations. Believe me, I've almost heard them all. I want a choice. Jesus or Joseph. It's pretty simple.
I choose Jesus the Truth and the only Way to heaven.
You pose a ridiculous statement while completely deflecting my entirely reasonble response to you already....to clarify Jesus Christ is the only way to Heaven. No other faithful LDS member believes otherwise.
I too have heard of all the typical Evangelical arguments against modern day prophets and a Christ that is loving and powerful enough to visit whom he should so choose: not a single one holds any water I'm afraid.
No, you have not answered the question. You have carefully tip-toed around the answer with quoting other verses and switching the subject. Do you know how to type Jesus? Do you know how to type Joseph? Only truly faithful members of the LDS faith would choose Joseph because without him the Mormon church would be nothing. Are you a faithful member of the Mormon church?...you don't have to answer that one. lol. Just pick one already.....JESUS or JOSEPH.
Yes, I have answered twice: Jesus Christ is the only way to return to Heaven. I accept the teachings Christ gave to apostles and prophets in the Bible, the Book of Mormon and in Modern times. I accept Christ and his prophets and apostles.
Once again you tell me what the Bible says, but you don't make a decision. I know what the Bible says. I want YOU to make a decision, Jesus or Joseph. Not which book to use. Not the prophets or apostles. Not if you 'accept the teachings' of Christ,apostles or whatever writings you can come up with. It's 5 letters=Jesus or 6 letters=Joseph. That's it. Why is this so difficult for you?
Your question is very strange.....I have previously answered that Jesus Christ is the only way for me to return to Heaven. I accept that 100% and know without acceptance of him and his sacrifice, said return is impossible.
Now, the guides I use to keep me close to the Savior and the Holy Spirit, who is my ultimate guide on earth, are the ancient and modern prophets and apostles.
Jesus or Joseph? pick one. it would take two seconds or less. It's quite simple. I don't want a cut and dried explaination of anything else. Jesus or Joseph.
I'm not concerned about "what you want". Christ expects me to accept him and his teachings as delivered directly through his own lips and his prophets and I have done so.
"Whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same"
Can't choose because you are a faithful member of the LDS church and without Joseph the church is nothing? Yes, I thought so. It's ok. I understand your plight. But be warned that choosing a man over Jesus is dangerous. You can "accept teachings" all you want but if you don't have Christ as the head of the church,then it's all for nothing. I tell you because I care about your eternal soul.
There's no other name in heaven where by men must be saved except the name of Jesus Christ our Lord.
Hmmm, and how would we know any this without the apostles and prophets of old? They were the ones who wrote their own inspired writings and the actual words of the Savior: without them, you have no record & therefore no knowledge of Christ.
As I have repeatedly said, Christ, and Christ alone, is the way back to Heaven. The only way we know this is through his prophets and apostles. I belong to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. He is the head of the Church and my master.
If you belong to the Church of JC of LDS, the head of that church is Joseph Smith because you need him to get to heaven. You have put a man over Christ.
"no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith...-BY vol 7 ch 14 pg 289.
Without Joseph Smith there is no LDS. Joseph Smith is therefore is the Authority of the LDS church and your master.
I choose Christ. I am not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus.
Thank-you for quoting the full name of our church: it is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Christ is at the head of the church.
Perhaps you should read the remainder of the quote which states:
...Joseph Smith will never cease his operations, UNDER THE DIRECTIONS OF THE SON OF GOD, until the last ones of the children of men are saved that can be, from Adam till now.......
No one has ever chosen Joseph Smith over Jesus Christ. to suggest otherwise is just silly rhetoric.
Just because the name Jesus Christ is in the title doesn't mean you are Christian. I know a lady down the street who puts up Christmas lights every year but she channels demons and teaches others how to do it-her name JZ Knight. Putting up lights,having Jesus in the title of the sign,putting up a tree,going to church every sunday,family night every monday...whatever...doesn't make you a Christian.
You have chosen Joseph over Jesus. Christ followers choose Christ. It was easy for me.
@djwright44 The true name is "The Church of Christ". It went thru 3 changes until it became the thing we see today. David Whitmer, 1887, An Address to All Believer in Christ, clearly shows Moroni so stated in the BofM.... And Sid and Joe had to change even that!
Perhaps a review of the Bible would be beneficial to you as well: Ye [the apostles] are they which have continued with me in my temptations. And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; that ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
First off, we accept Joseph Smith no differently than Evangelicals eccept the writings of Paul. So which is it, Jesus or Paul? Before you quickly respond and say Jesus, think about it. The Evangelical beliefs actually stem more from the writings of Paul (saved by grace, baptism by fire, etc.) than anywhere else, so if you choose Jesus, than you'd be rejecting 'salvation by grace'. Just like with us, it's not an either/or decision. They each carry their own weight in the big picture of salvation.
Every single faithful member of the Church of Jesus Christ of latter Day Saints accepts Jesus Christ as the way to heaven. We hold Joseph Smith in the same category as Isaiah, Jacob, Peter or John of the Bible. He is God's prophet.
He gives the Holy Ghost as a witness to truth. All man has to do is ask.. having faith that he will receive an answer.. having real intent... and it will be given. Will it be given in the time period man wants? Maybe.. maybe not. The Lord knows you and what you need. But the Holy Ghost will testify to truth. That you can bank on. It is fear that kept the Jews waiting for a messiah. There is nothing to fear.. but fear itself. Sincere prayer is the key to understanding.
Reminds me of a co-worker I knew who was a stalwart mormon. We chatted one day and he told me how he prayed to God sincerely if the girl he was seriously dating was the one he should marry. He related to me how he felt a peace inside and felt wonderful and knew without a shadow of a doubt after that they were meant to be together. Long story short...she broke up with him 4 weeks later and after some time married to another man. Point of story.. Feelings can't be trusted as a standard for truth.
You must always remember that God gives each man and woman free agency.
Have you ever thought that maybe they were meant to be together.. but she didn't see it? Revelation from God is dependent on two things.. was is received in the mind and in the heart. Both have to be in play. People are people and can and do make mistakes. Even the apostles at the time of Jesus didn't understand everything.. but they learned.
That's not really the point MrNirom. The point is that people will want somethings so badly to be true, that they will receive the confirmation you speak of. But it is not from God, but feelings they manufacture themselves. Praying is important don't get me wrong, but to say that is the only way we can truly know something is 100% correct is through prayer alone is erroneous. Besides many other God loving folks from other religions also feel this confirmation you speak of, are they faking it?
Galatians 5:22 is my guide for interpretation of the Holy Ghost: accordingly, I do follow (try!!) the promptings of the Spirit in my life. God does in fact work through his Holy Spirit and it is the responsibility of us to be in tune and obedient: when we are, we will be not be deceived, but will make correct choices.
Jesus claimed he was the Son of God. The Apostle Paul claimed he had a vision. Moses claimed he saw God face to face. Moses claimed he parted the Red Sea. What makes these "claims" any more real? Because it was over 2000 years ago? Anything newer must be a hoax for God has quit speaking with man.. Visions were done away with! Revelation.. was the ROCK that the Church was built on.. is no more. Yes.. the Lord is looking for Discerning individuals that can see and hear when he speaks.
another Shawn McCraney, trying to shift the focus of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints, the tail wagging the dog, the steadier of the ark. In old testament days, those that steadied the ark were smitten on the spot because they were out of line. Trying to politicize the process.
This man is an apostate, not a sincere believer. Not at all. Just LISTEN to this interview, it tells all. He has left already and judged the oracles of God. Go ahead, judge the prophets of God.
All we need to do is read the bible to know that the Lord God supports His prophets. Whether by the voice of the Lord or the voice of His prophets, it is the same.
"Are mormons really christian?" is his question. What a question! The man has apostacized already.
I tire of these people who say we speak too much of prophets and not enough of Jesus Christ at the local level. So false. He knows nothing. He has got bent out of shape over something. Tell the truth.
and all the members [human lives] of that ONE BODY [GOD], being MANY, are ONE body, SO ALSO IS Christ [GOD]. For by ONE SPIRIT we are all baptized into ONE body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into ONE SPIRIT. For the body [GOD] is not one member [Life], but MANY [All lives together]...Now Ye are the body of Christ [GOD], and members in particular." (I Cor 12:12-14,27)
Paul spoke very clearly concerning the nature of Christ who is God:
"Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are diversities of administrations, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of operations, but it is THE SAME GOD THAT WORKETH ALL IN ALL. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to EVERY MAN to profit withal...[Then Paul enumerates on the gifts of the Spirit.] For as THE BODY IS ONE [the Wave], AND HATH MANY MEMBERS [the many drops]........
We have not lost the molecules that have made us the drop. We still have our identity, but we also have much more. We are one with something much greater than ourselves (as drops) to the extent we actually become the wave. We are a wave, yet millions of drops combined. We are God, yet millions of human drops combined. No life is separated from the life which is God.
Mormon knew that the abridgment he was making was going to the prophet Joseph in the last days. He abridged all the plates and teachings into a book that was 1/100 of all that he had. So he kept the teachings simple because the Lord told him to and the Lord knew what he would be teaching Joseph later. He would teach him those things that he needed to know and pass on. Greater truths than what man had. Especially the Christian world.
You are tring to use Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:29 but as you know it is taken out of context. As Paul wrote to the Corinthians, he was very concerned about their understanding of the resurrection. Corinth was a Greek city and was greatly influenced by philosophy. The Greek mind didn't have any problem in accepting the concept of a resurrection. However, when the Greek spoke of "resurrection" he was referring to a spiritual resurrection...
...in which the spirit was freed from physical matter and the evil of this material world. This "resurrection", Plato taught, would happen to each person at the time of their death. Paul notes that the Christian concept of resurrection is not merely spiritual, but also physical. He argues that Christ was resurrected in bodily form. Paul states,
1 Corinthians 15:14 "And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
If you believe that Moses was a prophet.. and if he taught the same thing Joseph did.. would you then belong?
What if you didn't believe in what Moses taught.. would you believe Isaiah? If someone does not believe in Jesus Christ.. would they look at any Church who taught about him? What is the difference between one Christian Church and another? There must be something or all would belong to ONE church. And we would then have.. ONE faith.. ONE Lord.. ONE baptism.
MRnirom There is a problem with this theory. Joseph Smith changed God into a man, Jesus into a spirit brother and laws and ordinances that need to be done to get into heaven. This goes directly against teachings of the Bible.
No no no... Joseph Smith did not change God into man. God told Joseph what his nature was. God corrected the false teachings about him. God is the Father of all Spirits.. Christ and Lucifer and yours and mine. If their teachings were not corrupt.. the Lord would have been happy with the way things were. Then Joseph could have had another reformation.. rather than a restoration. It has been prophesied that a restoration would happen before the 2nd coming. It did!
MrNirom, So can you show us in the Bible where it says "God is the Father of all Spirits.. Christ and Lucifer and yours and mine." so did Joseph Smith change God? God of the Bible is not the same God of Mormonism.
7 If ye endure• chastening•, God dealeth with you as with sons•; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 9 Furthermore we have had fathers• of our flesh which corrected• us, and we gave them reverence•: shall we not much rather be in subjection• unto the Father• of spirits•, and live?
When you become one with God you are adopted so to speak into him, you are like a step son. But God loves you like a true Son. There is only one begotten son, that was Jesus!
John 1:12-13 states that "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."
Yes yes yes.. that is true.. but that is only for this earth period of time. Jesus was the only begotten of the Father to come here.. but remember.. we all die.. and we all go on to the next life. You have to learn to seperate the two worlds.
There is only one Christian church and this church believes that Jesus Christ has paid for all sin and it is a free gift from the Lord. There is absolutely nothing you can do to buy your way into another degree of heaven because there isn't another one. This is a fabricated story, not Biblical. This was Joseph Smiths new and improved gospel. As it turned out, Christians became angry because Joseph claimed their teachings were corrupt.
If you don't believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet.. then there is no reason to believe anything else.. because nothing will make sense. But once the Lord testifies to your spirit about Joseph.. then your mind is open to the understanding of the things he taught. They then become plain and understandable. So the temple has no value to someone who doesn't believe in Baptism for the dead.. which Joseph expounded upon and made clear from the Bible. Line upon line.
Just make sure its the Lord that testifies to your spirit and not the one who himself lies and tricks us into thinking we can be Gods ourself. He is trying so hard to trick us that most cannot even see it since he is the Angle of Light!
in the Recognitions, has a certain order, and there are some things which must be delivered first, others in the second place, and others in the third, and so all in their order; and if these things be delivered in their order, they become plain; but if they be brought forward out of order, they will seem to be spoken against reason. That is why he rebuked the youthful Clement for wanting to know everything ahead of time.
Anyone who has ever been to Mormon meetings knows that it is individuals that give the talks each week. It is their choice as to what they say in their talk. There is no conspiricy in the Church to NOT talk about Christ. Christ was perfect in everything he did. So I don't understand how people can say we need more Christ.. he is talked about all the time. He is the center of what we do and why we do it. The Apostle Paul said.. Joseph Smith said, Christ said, Moses said.. Isaiah said...
Can I join the mormon church if I dont believe in what Joseph Smith said? Only what the Bible teaches? Only rely on Jesus... can I join? I have to accept Joseph Smith and the the leaders of the LDS church in order to be a member of the LDS church. I have to do all they require (tithe, obey word of wisdom, go to church weekly) in order to get into the LDS temple. Because the LDS temple is the required of the LDS church in order to live with God when I die...
Why would anyone want to join a Church if they don't believe something that the Church teaches? I don't believe the Mary the mother of Jesus Christ was sinless like Christ.. therefore I could not become Catholic. I believe one must be baptized so I would not join a church that did not baptize or give the Gift of the Holy Ghost. I am sure that when Jews converted Jews to Judaism the first they did not tell them was about the 625 rules they had to follow.. but more about God. Rules came later.
MrNirom you are to stuck on what a church's works are and not what is most important. It is not a group or what is done, it is the relationship with God. Jesus gave us a direct line to God, God loved us so much he became man (Jesus) and saved us. All you have to do is put your faith in Jesus the direct line to God. The church is important as for fellowship but not for your salvation. Just make sure the Church teaches the Bible alone!
God the Father didn't become man. Jesus, the son of God became man. Thru Jesus and the Christ.. man was saved by doing what Jesus asked us to do.. and that is to follow him. Jesus gave no credit to himself.. but he who sent him. God the Father. Jesus said: "He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and GREATER WORKS than these shall he do; because I go to my Father...At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I (Christ) IN
You really have a hard time putting the Father and Jesus into one. John 10:24-30 in 30 "I and the Father are one."
John 17:20-22 "...just as you are in me and I am in you"
But Jesus was a man? God created all things, is it to hard to think God could become a man and still be God? Jesus uses Father to separate the man from God. So he is 100% man Jesus and 100% God the Father, and in all of us is the Spirit. All three are one God!
As for John 14:12&20 when you have God in you trully you will do good works. Not saying if you don't you won't do good but if you do and you know it inside, it will shine outwardly through your good works. You will do so to honor our heavenly father. The flip side is when you make a mistake and fall short, it hurts much much worse.
A drop of water is insignificant when it is removed from a giant wave, but when it is joined back into the wave and cooperates with it, it then becomes the wave. We are like drops of water that have separated from the Life wave we call God. When we join back in with the God wave we become one with it and we can say with all the other billions of lives: "I am the wave" or "I AM God".
You are a little off, God created us in his image not in spirit. We were born on earth not in heaven. there is no preexistance in heaven. If you think you can show us in the Bible a preexistance in heaven? Try to keep it in context though please.
Try to show me were it does'nt say theres no pre mortal life. This is typiacl people who think they can make stuff up. Prove the Mormon Vhurch a fraud in the Bible, you cant..
The guy in video is a little off. My mom was evangelical and molested by her preacher "UNCLE" my dad was Catholic and I'll just stop there, otherwise I'll be accused of exagerating. I've been around the block, I've hung out with many wrong crowds. Lots and lots of drugs and I went to many other Churches. This guy needs to get around. I have found this Church to be far more centered on Jesus than others and more sincere. Even the studying the prophets points to Christ.
I like the church how it is. If it starts robotically mentioning Jesus every two seconds then I would not like this church. Its the spirit of this Church I love. Satan to can preach and mention Jesus evey second. To me it is more the unusually CHRISTLIKE spirit
Why would anyone want to join a church where NOTHING can be verified by actual evidence? Archeology should've come up with some validations by now! Supposedly Mormon was the original author of the BoM. Shouldn't there be evidence that the Nephites commonly engaged in writing? Shouldn't there be evidences of a people-group even called NEPHITES? Surely all evidence couldn't have been lost in a mere 2000 years!
Too much of the LDS religion relies on taking Joseph Smith at his word. Read Deut. 13
Yes.. that is the kind of followers God is looking for. The ones he has to "prove" everything to. Joseph Smith is just another prophet. Moses was a prophet. You have to take him at his word if you buy into the 5 books of Moses.. you have to take Isaiah at his word.. for he too was a Prophet. You have to take the Apostle Paul at his word too. And he never met Christ face to face either in real life. At least Peter, James and John did. Jesus didn't write a thing. So is he really real?
The kind of followers God is looking for are the DISCERNING kind. The kind that wont fall for something just because somebody claims God says so (David Koresh and Jim Jones made similar claims).
IMO we should be able to count on God to be unchanging. The god of JS doesn't measure up! He said that polygamy would be an everlasting covenant (D&C132), and just decades later changed his mind!
We need to know the TRUE God in order to be where He is, after our time here is completed!
The God of the New Testament did away with the law of Moses which was given by the God of the Old Testament. The God of the Old Testament was kill man, woman, and child... and the God of the new testament was love thy neighbor. So.. is God the same yesterday, today and forever? Or does he give laws based on the way people can handle them? God's ways are not man's ways. David Koresh or Jim Jones do not even compare to Joseph Smith! Those are peanuts in the bowl of Cashews.
If you got that the God of the OT was kill man, woman, and child wouldn't the Nephites have needed the same message, even tho allegedly visited by Jesus after He rose? Youd think that event wouldve been impressive enough for their progeny to STILL be telling the story! Instead they succumbed to baser ways and were destroyed, even to the last baby! (hate when that happens)
Was the BoM shared with the Nephites and Lamanites in their native reformed egyptian language? If not, why not?
No.. the Nephites were not the same as the Jewish Nation as a whole. Look up "Great White Spirit" or Great white God. There language of reformed Egyptian was not native. That was what they "called" it. It doesn't mean the same to them as it does to us.
@MrNirom they give you the paper with what to say you just look for the scriptures, everything have manual,people hardly say anything to contradict the manual.
@iloveabbie12 Not everything in this statement is true. Yes.. we have manuals and books that we refer to just as anyone does who is learning. The manual is a guide post of doctrine that has been approved for general membership. I have learned about doctrines that do not conform to the "approved" teaching of the church.. so I don't teach those doctrines. It is not my place. When the Lord wants those doctrines to be taught.. he will do it from the top down.. not the bottom up.
Christianity?...really.....what form of christianity?..your modern based exegesis christianity?.....hmm man may become?...thats not biblical...have you ever heard of Deification of Man...read revelation a little bit more carefully and a little bit more deeper....Have you read anything on the early church fatehers and what they believed?...parallels bro....parallels...know what your talking about before you say people "got owned" on a topic that shows primarily your ignorance.
wow....what a weak argument...yeah what in the world are you talking about?...u cant even answer my questions, you just assume through logical fallacy
Hi Nirom, this truth would be found in Handels Messiah. The Tab. Choir sings it all the time.
Isaiah 9: 6
For unto Us a Child is born, unto Us a Son is given: and the government shall be upon His shoulder: and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
GiftoAll: Jesus is not your spirit brother, he is God!
And who is his Father? Who is this Deity that Jesus continued to do the will of? Who is this God that Christ called out to on the cross saying "My God, My God"? Who's voice came out of heaven saying "This is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased" at the baptism of Jesus? and at the same time.. the Holy Ghost appears in the form of a dove?
Now that is all Biblical. That same Father that Christ has.. is our Father too.
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let US make man in our image, after our likeness...
Genesis 1:27 So God created man in HIS own image...
Who is God? us? there is only one God so who then is us? Try not to think to much about it though, we cannot understand nor are we surposed to. As long as you have faith that God is 3 in one, Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one.
In the beginning of of what? All time? or this time? God has said he has created worlds without end.. like sands upon the sea. So how many of those worlds are earth like? The Father.. the Son.. and the Holy Spirit are one in Purpose. They have the same goal. To bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. They are 3 separate individuals but one in purpose. God is in us.. and we in him.. yet we are ourselves and he is himself. He is our Father.. we are his sons and daughters.
Do you think God is bound by time? he created time and space, he is not bound by it. I think this is where you get confused. You put God is a time limitation. Look farther into it, it is way bigger than me or you.
Exo: Yes.. it is greater. But what we are referring to is what we know.. and what God wants us to know and what he feels is important for us to know and understand. Do not think that you have all knowledge concerning God because you have the Bible. The Bible is only what God has currently given us.. not everything. If you assume that what he speaks of is everything.. you could be wrong and therefore as the word assume says.. it makes an ass out of u & me.
Ok the Bible does have everything we need to spend eternity in heaven with him. What does the Book of Mormon have that the Bible does not? Temple Marriage? Baptizm of the Dead? Chance to repent after you die? Three levels of heaven? So does it? Nope!
23 Verily I say unto you, that whoso repenteth of his sins through your words, and desireth to be baptized in my name, on this wise shall ye baptize them—Behold, ye shall go down and stand in the water, and in my name shall ye baptize them... saying... 25 Having authority given me of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen. 26 And then shall ye immerse them in the water, and come forth again out of the water.
This is from the Book of Mormon 3 nephi 11 but all it talks about is Baptizm. not in the templ or for the dead? I think the question was a little to hard, im sorry. Also it is impossible to answer since it is not there.
Please put your faith in Jesus (the Jesus of the Bible) and come to him. God Loves you and wants you to see the truth!
oh Baptizm of the Dead is in D&C 124 but not the Bible or Book of Mormon.
I gave you ONE thing that Book of Mormon has that shows why one needs it. The Bible talks about baptism.. but not how to be baptized.
You know that there were many things that were revealed to the Apostles that they were not allowed to write about. Why do you think this is? Because the people could not accept the smallest things let alone the deeper mysteries of God. As the faith of people increase.. so does the teachings about God. In the BoM there is only 1/100 of what was written.
He is still a member of the LDS church... But as some LDS (that does not stand up for truth), they want a shift in the church - more focus on Jesus - and move away from Joseph Smith... You cant become a member if you dont believe Joseph Smith.. - But in 10 years - I believe we have a different LDS faith.... it moves toward christianity... but thats the danger too.. close to truth, but holds to damnable falsities
Joseph Smith was a prophet.. just like Moses. If there were books written about Moses.. you would be reading them. If you had a history of the Apostle Paul.. you would read it and discuss it too. We speak a lot about Christ and his teachings. We speak about Joseph and his teachings about Christ. Jesus Christ never wrote a thing. Anything you read is about him by someone else. It is Jesus Christ who spoke to Joseph Smith. Why would we discard what he had to say?
You are correct MrNirom, Jesus did speak through others, and today he still does. Just not the same as the old Prophets, just like I am right now. God has a plan for you and me and we are to bring everyone to him (God of the Bible) He loves us all and does not want anyone to perish. But sadly, alot will, but not from lack of trying to save everyone. If you fail, its not because of God not trying to save you, its from your own free will.
Even while claiming special status as an "insider" and as a faithful member of the Church, and while having employment with the Church Education System, Palmer worked on this critical book for twenty years.
Getting paid by the Church.. and writing a book against it. Hmmm that sounds real honest.
Palmer consistently presents only one side of a question and only uses evidence that supports his views. He consistently avoids evidence that would be contrary to his point of view.
If LDS dropped its doctrines about the sexual nature of the God of the Bible and the nature of salvation (Morman men become gods), and just continued with its genius for building strong families it would thrive.
There is more written about the potential of man and what he is to become than not when it comes to the Bible. God promises to give us all that he has.. and praytell.. what is it that all he has?
Grant Palmer didn't write a "factual" book. The fact that you even say that shows your own level of ignorance. He makes up fantasy stuff such as the "Golden Pot" etc. But just as any anti-mormon book, he ignores facts that would debunk his conclusions, and he promotes heresay and opinion has evidence. Further, he's been an anti-mormon for some 25 years, while pretending to be a faithful mormon working for the Church. If that's YOUR version of truth, enjoy your devil worship.
leeuniverse 2 months ago
Ah athiest they always use the excuse that religion is the reason for war
bobbyraejohnson 4 months ago
Does it matter whether Mormons are "true Christians" or not. The whole concept of Christianity is a myth. Mormonism is just a myth built upon another myth.
Stormspeace 1 year ago
Where is the emphasis? Look at the cover of your latest Ensign magazine. Chances are it 's Joesph Smith or Brigham Young and not Jesus Christ.
bodyandsmarts 1 year ago
for thought: Joseph Smith was a Prophet that later fell from grace( like many men in power do) we know he lost some scripture and , and sought after high government offices. Opened a bank and lost the money. To me it seems he fell. Just like king Saul. Maybe wasn't a martyr at all but his own people killed him after losing their money and Joseph taking their wives.
jillian2u2 1 year ago
But what is a mainstream christian church. I don't trust most christians because of their fanatical view of the bible and ignorance of world history and science. EVENTUALLY CHRISTIANITY WILL DIE when some one will say jesus is not coming back.
and yet the time was suppose to be soon
ChildePC 1 year ago
I agree that on the General Authority level, the emphasis on Jesus Christ doesn't seem to be suffering as much as it is on the local levels. Perhaps this is also recognized as a problem by the General Authorities. In the past few years, more Christ-centered reference material has been published, such as 'Teaching, No Greater Call" and "Preach My Gospel." And, for 2010, the Priesthood and Relief Society study manual is "Gospel Principles" as opposed to the "Teachings of the Prophets" series.
brianwhitney 2 years ago
Thanks should be given to Grant Palmer for his firm stand. After a lifetime of faithfull service, they blast him for telling the truth. pathetic! They can't handle the truth.
awolLDSasap 2 years ago 4
Thank you - this is what I have said for years.Jesus Christ is never taight in the lessons. The church has become ashamed about christ
Hyrumfyrum 2 years ago 2
Mormons worship the church, Joseph Smith and the pioneers. Nothing else matters.
awolLDSasap 2 years ago 4
@awolLDSasap
So true. Jesus is an afterthought.
Badelier 2 years ago
The lds gospel is different than the gospel of Christ. lds members should realize how backward they are when they call the cross foolish.
awolLDSasap 2 years ago
It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.
Psalms 118:8
..behold, now [is] the day of salvation-2 Cr.6:2.
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore CHOOSE LIFE, that both thou and thy seed may live.--Deu 30:19.
Jesus saith unto him, I AM the way, the truth, and THE LIFE: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.--John 14:6.
Jesus saves,not Joseph.
sldeyo 2 years ago
Oh, and before my last post gets taken out of context, I'd like to say that I'm NOT putting Jesus on any equal plane with Joseph Smith just as I don't believe Christians put Paul on the same level as Jesus, it's just that certain revealed truths have been given to each apostle/prophet by God so that everything will fit together in one nice package called the gospel. But my Lord and Savior CLEARLY takes #1 priority in that through Him and His wonderful sacrifice, I can truly have eternal life.
retsinor 2 years ago
So djwright44,which one is it? Into heaven with a signed certificate by Joseph Smith or Jesus Christ who is the Son of God?
If I were you I would choose the Way,the Truth and the Life, who is Jesus Christ.
May the Lord bless you and open your eyes to understanding His Word.
sldeyo 2 years ago
Either you are lying or don't know Mormon history.
"no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith. ...every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are.--Brigham Young JoD vol 7 ch 14 pg 289."
Bible facts: Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.--John 14:6
sldeyo 2 years ago
I know the history just fine: I hold that statement no different than I do 1 Corinthians 14:33-36 (women not permitted to speak in church). Both statements were made with the knowledge of the times. As you and I both know, knowledge grows and expands. Incorrect statements made in the Bible by ancient prophets, or incorrect statements made in the latter days do not impact the reality of Jesus Christ or his continuing revelations and love for you and I.
djwright44 2 years ago
So which one is it? Joseph or Jesus? I don't want other Bible verses or other cut and dried explainations. Believe me, I've almost heard them all. I want a choice. Jesus or Joseph. It's pretty simple.
I choose Jesus the Truth and the only Way to heaven.
sldeyo 2 years ago
You pose a ridiculous statement while completely deflecting my entirely reasonble response to you already....to clarify Jesus Christ is the only way to Heaven. No other faithful LDS member believes otherwise.
I too have heard of all the typical Evangelical arguments against modern day prophets and a Christ that is loving and powerful enough to visit whom he should so choose: not a single one holds any water I'm afraid.
djwright44 2 years ago
Since I already know the arguments, and so do you,what's your answer? Jesus or Joseph?
Are you able to give an answer?
sldeyo 2 years ago
You have now asked this question of me twice and I have answered twice: please see my comments below.
djwright44 2 years ago
No, you have not answered the question. You have carefully tip-toed around the answer with quoting other verses and switching the subject. Do you know how to type Jesus? Do you know how to type Joseph? Only truly faithful members of the LDS faith would choose Joseph because without him the Mormon church would be nothing. Are you a faithful member of the Mormon church?...you don't have to answer that one. lol. Just pick one already.....JESUS or JOSEPH.
sldeyo 2 years ago
Yes, I have answered twice: Jesus Christ is the only way to return to Heaven. I accept the teachings Christ gave to apostles and prophets in the Bible, the Book of Mormon and in Modern times. I accept Christ and his prophets and apostles.
djwright44 2 years ago
Once again you tell me what the Bible says, but you don't make a decision. I know what the Bible says. I want YOU to make a decision, Jesus or Joseph. Not which book to use. Not the prophets or apostles. Not if you 'accept the teachings' of Christ,apostles or whatever writings you can come up with. It's 5 letters=Jesus or 6 letters=Joseph. That's it. Why is this so difficult for you?
sldeyo 2 years ago
Your question is very strange.....I have previously answered that Jesus Christ is the only way for me to return to Heaven. I accept that 100% and know without acceptance of him and his sacrifice, said return is impossible.
Now, the guides I use to keep me close to the Savior and the Holy Spirit, who is my ultimate guide on earth, are the ancient and modern prophets and apostles.
djwright44 2 years ago
Jesus or Joseph? pick one. it would take two seconds or less. It's quite simple. I don't want a cut and dried explaination of anything else. Jesus or Joseph.
sldeyo 2 years ago
I'm not concerned about "what you want". Christ expects me to accept him and his teachings as delivered directly through his own lips and his prophets and I have done so.
"Whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same"
djwright44 2 years ago
Can't choose because you are a faithful member of the LDS church and without Joseph the church is nothing? Yes, I thought so. It's ok. I understand your plight. But be warned that choosing a man over Jesus is dangerous. You can "accept teachings" all you want but if you don't have Christ as the head of the church,then it's all for nothing. I tell you because I care about your eternal soul.
There's no other name in heaven where by men must be saved except the name of Jesus Christ our Lord.
sldeyo 2 years ago
Hmmm, and how would we know any this without the apostles and prophets of old? They were the ones who wrote their own inspired writings and the actual words of the Savior: without them, you have no record & therefore no knowledge of Christ.
As I have repeatedly said, Christ, and Christ alone, is the way back to Heaven. The only way we know this is through his prophets and apostles. I belong to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. He is the head of the Church and my master.
djwright44 2 years ago
If you belong to the Church of JC of LDS, the head of that church is Joseph Smith because you need him to get to heaven. You have put a man over Christ.
"no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith...-BY vol 7 ch 14 pg 289.
Without Joseph Smith there is no LDS. Joseph Smith is therefore is the Authority of the LDS church and your master.
I choose Christ. I am not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus.
sldeyo 2 years ago
Thank-you for quoting the full name of our church: it is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Christ is at the head of the church.
Perhaps you should read the remainder of the quote which states:
...Joseph Smith will never cease his operations, UNDER THE DIRECTIONS OF THE SON OF GOD, until the last ones of the children of men are saved that can be, from Adam till now.......
No one has ever chosen Joseph Smith over Jesus Christ. to suggest otherwise is just silly rhetoric.
djwright44 2 years ago
Just because the name Jesus Christ is in the title doesn't mean you are Christian. I know a lady down the street who puts up Christmas lights every year but she channels demons and teaches others how to do it-her name JZ Knight. Putting up lights,having Jesus in the title of the sign,putting up a tree,going to church every sunday,family night every monday...whatever...doesn't make you a Christian.
You have chosen Joseph over Jesus. Christ followers choose Christ. It was easy for me.
sldeyo 2 years ago
@djwright44 The true name is "The Church of Christ". It went thru 3 changes until it became the thing we see today. David Whitmer, 1887, An Address to All Believer in Christ, clearly shows Moroni so stated in the BofM.... And Sid and Joe had to change even that!
IExposeMormonism 2 years ago
Perhaps a review of the Bible would be beneficial to you as well: Ye [the apostles] are they which have continued with me in my temptations. And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; that ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
(Luke 22:28-30; see also Matthew 19:28.)
God's anointed have always been called upon to assist the Savior in his work!
djwright44 2 years ago
First off, we accept Joseph Smith no differently than Evangelicals eccept the writings of Paul. So which is it, Jesus or Paul? Before you quickly respond and say Jesus, think about it. The Evangelical beliefs actually stem more from the writings of Paul (saved by grace, baptism by fire, etc.) than anywhere else, so if you choose Jesus, than you'd be rejecting 'salvation by grace'. Just like with us, it's not an either/or decision. They each carry their own weight in the big picture of salvation.
retsinor 2 years ago
Joseph Smith saith unto him,I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.--John 14:6.
That's not right! But that's what the Mormon church believes.
"no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith...-BY vol 7 ch 14 pg 289.
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.--John 14:6
Jesus IS the Only Way. not Joseph
sldeyo 2 years ago
Mormons are not Christian. It's Jesus who saves and not the commands of Joseph Smith.
sldeyo 2 years ago
Every single faithful member of the Church of Jesus Christ of latter Day Saints accepts Jesus Christ as the way to heaven. We hold Joseph Smith in the same category as Isaiah, Jacob, Peter or John of the Bible. He is God's prophet.
djwright44 2 years ago
He gives the Holy Ghost as a witness to truth. All man has to do is ask.. having faith that he will receive an answer.. having real intent... and it will be given. Will it be given in the time period man wants? Maybe.. maybe not. The Lord knows you and what you need. But the Holy Ghost will testify to truth. That you can bank on. It is fear that kept the Jews waiting for a messiah. There is nothing to fear.. but fear itself. Sincere prayer is the key to understanding.
MrNirom 2 years ago
Reminds me of a co-worker I knew who was a stalwart mormon. We chatted one day and he told me how he prayed to God sincerely if the girl he was seriously dating was the one he should marry. He related to me how he felt a peace inside and felt wonderful and knew without a shadow of a doubt after that they were meant to be together. Long story short...she broke up with him 4 weeks later and after some time married to another man. Point of story.. Feelings can't be trusted as a standard for truth.
inarisushifiend 2 years ago
You must always remember that God gives each man and woman free agency.
Have you ever thought that maybe they were meant to be together.. but she didn't see it? Revelation from God is dependent on two things.. was is received in the mind and in the heart. Both have to be in play. People are people and can and do make mistakes. Even the apostles at the time of Jesus didn't understand everything.. but they learned.
MrNirom 2 years ago
That's not really the point MrNirom. The point is that people will want somethings so badly to be true, that they will receive the confirmation you speak of. But it is not from God, but feelings they manufacture themselves. Praying is important don't get me wrong, but to say that is the only way we can truly know something is 100% correct is through prayer alone is erroneous. Besides many other God loving folks from other religions also feel this confirmation you speak of, are they faking it?
inarisushifiend 2 years ago
Galatians 5:22 is my guide for interpretation of the Holy Ghost: accordingly, I do follow (try!!) the promptings of the Spirit in my life. God does in fact work through his Holy Spirit and it is the responsibility of us to be in tune and obedient: when we are, we will be not be deceived, but will make correct choices.
djwright44 2 years ago
Jesus claimed he was the Son of God. The Apostle Paul claimed he had a vision. Moses claimed he saw God face to face. Moses claimed he parted the Red Sea. What makes these "claims" any more real? Because it was over 2000 years ago? Anything newer must be a hoax for God has quit speaking with man.. Visions were done away with! Revelation.. was the ROCK that the Church was built on.. is no more. Yes.. the Lord is looking for Discerning individuals that can see and hear when he speaks.
MrNirom 2 years ago
Grant's problem is that he can not dump the MORmON POS religion altogether.
It started with a lie as its foundation, that will always be there. It never gets better. It will always be a POS.
gawbcity 2 years ago
another Shawn McCraney, trying to shift the focus of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints, the tail wagging the dog, the steadier of the ark. In old testament days, those that steadied the ark were smitten on the spot because they were out of line. Trying to politicize the process.
This man is an apostate, not a sincere believer. Not at all. Just LISTEN to this interview, it tells all. He has left already and judged the oracles of God. Go ahead, judge the prophets of God.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
All we need to do is read the bible to know that the Lord God supports His prophets. Whether by the voice of the Lord or the voice of His prophets, it is the same.
"Are mormons really christian?" is his question. What a question! The man has apostacized already.
I tire of these people who say we speak too much of prophets and not enough of Jesus Christ at the local level. So false. He knows nothing. He has got bent out of shape over something. Tell the truth.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
and all the members [human lives] of that ONE BODY [GOD], being MANY, are ONE body, SO ALSO IS Christ [GOD]. For by ONE SPIRIT we are all baptized into ONE body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into ONE SPIRIT. For the body [GOD] is not one member [Life], but MANY [All lives together]...Now Ye are the body of Christ [GOD], and members in particular." (I Cor 12:12-14,27)
MrNirom 3 years ago
Paul spoke very clearly concerning the nature of Christ who is God:
"Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are diversities of administrations, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of operations, but it is THE SAME GOD THAT WORKETH ALL IN ALL. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to EVERY MAN to profit withal...[Then Paul enumerates on the gifts of the Spirit.] For as THE BODY IS ONE [the Wave], AND HATH MANY MEMBERS [the many drops]........
MrNirom 3 years ago
We have not lost the molecules that have made us the drop. We still have our identity, but we also have much more. We are one with something much greater than ourselves (as drops) to the extent we actually become the wave. We are a wave, yet millions of drops combined. We are God, yet millions of human drops combined. No life is separated from the life which is God.
MrNirom 3 years ago
Mormon knew that the abridgment he was making was going to the prophet Joseph in the last days. He abridged all the plates and teachings into a book that was 1/100 of all that he had. So he kept the teachings simple because the Lord told him to and the Lord knew what he would be teaching Joseph later. He would teach him those things that he needed to know and pass on. Greater truths than what man had. Especially the Christian world.
MrNirom 3 years ago
Baptism for the Dead is mentioned in the bible. Go look for it. If you can not find it.. I will point it out to you.
MrNirom 3 years ago
You are tring to use Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:29 but as you know it is taken out of context. As Paul wrote to the Corinthians, he was very concerned about their understanding of the resurrection. Corinth was a Greek city and was greatly influenced by philosophy. The Greek mind didn't have any problem in accepting the concept of a resurrection. However, when the Greek spoke of "resurrection" he was referring to a spiritual resurrection...
cont.
Exodus314IAM 3 years ago
...in which the spirit was freed from physical matter and the evil of this material world. This "resurrection", Plato taught, would happen to each person at the time of their death. Paul notes that the Christian concept of resurrection is not merely spiritual, but also physical. He argues that Christ was resurrected in bodily form. Paul states,
1 Corinthians 15:14 "And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
Exodus314IAM 3 years ago
If you believe that Moses was a prophet.. and if he taught the same thing Joseph did.. would you then belong?
What if you didn't believe in what Moses taught.. would you believe Isaiah? If someone does not believe in Jesus Christ.. would they look at any Church who taught about him? What is the difference between one Christian Church and another? There must be something or all would belong to ONE church. And we would then have.. ONE faith.. ONE Lord.. ONE baptism.
MrNirom 3 years ago
MRnirom There is a problem with this theory. Joseph Smith changed God into a man, Jesus into a spirit brother and laws and ordinances that need to be done to get into heaven. This goes directly against teachings of the Bible.
GiftoAll 3 years ago
No no no... Joseph Smith did not change God into man. God told Joseph what his nature was. God corrected the false teachings about him. God is the Father of all Spirits.. Christ and Lucifer and yours and mine. If their teachings were not corrupt.. the Lord would have been happy with the way things were. Then Joseph could have had another reformation.. rather than a restoration. It has been prophesied that a restoration would happen before the 2nd coming. It did!
MrNirom 3 years ago
MrNirom, So can you show us in the Bible where it says "God is the Father of all Spirits.. Christ and Lucifer and yours and mine." so did Joseph Smith change God? God of the Bible is not the same God of Mormonism.
Exodus314IAM 3 years ago
Heb 12
7 If ye endure• chastening•, God dealeth with you as with sons•; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 9 Furthermore we have had fathers• of our flesh which corrected• us, and we gave them reverence•: shall we not much rather be in subjection• unto the Father• of spirits•, and live?
MrNirom 3 years ago
When you become one with God you are adopted so to speak into him, you are like a step son. But God loves you like a true Son. There is only one begotten son, that was Jesus!
John 1:12-13 states that "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."
Exodus314IAM 3 years ago
Yes yes yes.. that is true.. but that is only for this earth period of time. Jesus was the only begotten of the Father to come here.. but remember.. we all die.. and we all go on to the next life. You have to learn to seperate the two worlds.
MrNirom 3 years ago
There is only one Christian church and this church believes that Jesus Christ has paid for all sin and it is a free gift from the Lord. There is absolutely nothing you can do to buy your way into another degree of heaven because there isn't another one. This is a fabricated story, not Biblical. This was Joseph Smiths new and improved gospel. As it turned out, Christians became angry because Joseph claimed their teachings were corrupt.
GiftoAll 3 years ago
If you don't believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet.. then there is no reason to believe anything else.. because nothing will make sense. But once the Lord testifies to your spirit about Joseph.. then your mind is open to the understanding of the things he taught. They then become plain and understandable. So the temple has no value to someone who doesn't believe in Baptism for the dead.. which Joseph expounded upon and made clear from the Bible. Line upon line.
MrNirom 3 years ago
The Bible never says to baptise the dead. It says why be in jeopardy every hour. Why baptise the dead if they do not rise?
GiftoAll 3 years ago
Just make sure its the Lord that testifies to your spirit and not the one who himself lies and tricks us into thinking we can be Gods ourself. He is trying so hard to trick us that most cannot even see it since he is the Angle of Light!
Exodus314IAM 3 years ago
The teaching of all doctrine, says Peter
in the Recognitions, has a certain order, and there are some things which must be delivered first, others in the second place, and others in the third, and so all in their order; and if these things be delivered in their order, they become plain; but if they be brought forward out of order, they will seem to be spoken against reason. That is why he rebuked the youthful Clement for wanting to know everything ahead of time.
MrNirom 3 years ago
Anyone who has ever been to Mormon meetings knows that it is individuals that give the talks each week. It is their choice as to what they say in their talk. There is no conspiricy in the Church to NOT talk about Christ. Christ was perfect in everything he did. So I don't understand how people can say we need more Christ.. he is talked about all the time. He is the center of what we do and why we do it. The Apostle Paul said.. Joseph Smith said, Christ said, Moses said.. Isaiah said...
MrNirom 3 years ago
Can I join the mormon church if I dont believe in what Joseph Smith said? Only what the Bible teaches? Only rely on Jesus... can I join? I have to accept Joseph Smith and the the leaders of the LDS church in order to be a member of the LDS church. I have to do all they require (tithe, obey word of wisdom, go to church weekly) in order to get into the LDS temple. Because the LDS temple is the required of the LDS church in order to live with God when I die...
Correct?
testskriftene 3 years ago
Why would anyone want to join a Church if they don't believe something that the Church teaches? I don't believe the Mary the mother of Jesus Christ was sinless like Christ.. therefore I could not become Catholic. I believe one must be baptized so I would not join a church that did not baptize or give the Gift of the Holy Ghost. I am sure that when Jews converted Jews to Judaism the first they did not tell them was about the 625 rules they had to follow.. but more about God. Rules came later.
MrNirom 3 years ago
MrNirom you are to stuck on what a church's works are and not what is most important. It is not a group or what is done, it is the relationship with God. Jesus gave us a direct line to God, God loved us so much he became man (Jesus) and saved us. All you have to do is put your faith in Jesus the direct line to God. The church is important as for fellowship but not for your salvation. Just make sure the Church teaches the Bible alone!
Exodus314IAM 3 years ago
God the Father didn't become man. Jesus, the son of God became man. Thru Jesus and the Christ.. man was saved by doing what Jesus asked us to do.. and that is to follow him. Jesus gave no credit to himself.. but he who sent him. God the Father. Jesus said: "He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and GREATER WORKS than these shall he do; because I go to my Father...At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I (Christ) IN
YOU.: (John 14:12&20)
MrNirom 3 years ago
You really have a hard time putting the Father and Jesus into one. John 10:24-30 in 30 "I and the Father are one."
John 17:20-22 "...just as you are in me and I am in you"
But Jesus was a man? God created all things, is it to hard to think God could become a man and still be God? Jesus uses Father to separate the man from God. So he is 100% man Jesus and 100% God the Father, and in all of us is the Spirit. All three are one God!
Exodus314IAM 3 years ago
As for John 14:12&20 when you have God in you trully you will do good works. Not saying if you don't you won't do good but if you do and you know it inside, it will shine outwardly through your good works. You will do so to honor our heavenly father. The flip side is when you make a mistake and fall short, it hurts much much worse.
Exodus314IAM 3 years ago
A drop of water is insignificant when it is removed from a giant wave, but when it is joined back into the wave and cooperates with it, it then becomes the wave. We are like drops of water that have separated from the Life wave we call God. When we join back in with the God wave we become one with it and we can say with all the other billions of lives: "I am the wave" or "I AM God".
MrNirom 3 years ago
You are a little off, God created us in his image not in spirit. We were born on earth not in heaven. there is no preexistance in heaven. If you think you can show us in the Bible a preexistance in heaven? Try to keep it in context though please.
Exodus314IAM 3 years ago
Jeremiah was ordained to be a prophet in the premortal life (Jer. 1: 4-5)
MrNirom 3 years ago 2
The Bible does not teach that man existed before being created in the womb. Indeed, our spirits are formed in the womb (Zechariah 12:1).
Exodus314IAM 3 years ago
Try to show me were it does'nt say theres no pre mortal life. This is typiacl people who think they can make stuff up. Prove the Mormon Vhurch a fraud in the Bible, you cant..
adogforever 3 years ago
The guy in video is a little off. My mom was evangelical and molested by her preacher "UNCLE" my dad was Catholic and I'll just stop there, otherwise I'll be accused of exagerating. I've been around the block, I've hung out with many wrong crowds. Lots and lots of drugs and I went to many other Churches. This guy needs to get around. I have found this Church to be far more centered on Jesus than others and more sincere. Even the studying the prophets points to Christ.
adogforever 3 years ago
I like the church how it is. If it starts robotically mentioning Jesus every two seconds then I would not like this church. Its the spirit of this Church I love. Satan to can preach and mention Jesus evey second. To me it is more the unusually CHRISTLIKE spirit
adogforever 3 years ago
Only Christ existed before mortality, not man. (John 8:58; Colossians 1:17) Our existence started on earth. (Zechariah 12:1; 1 Corinthians 15:46)
Exodus314IAM 3 years ago
Why would anyone want to join a church where NOTHING can be verified by actual evidence? Archeology should've come up with some validations by now! Supposedly Mormon was the original author of the BoM. Shouldn't there be evidence that the Nephites commonly engaged in writing? Shouldn't there be evidences of a people-group even called NEPHITES? Surely all evidence couldn't have been lost in a mere 2000 years!
Too much of the LDS religion relies on taking Joseph Smith at his word. Read Deut. 13
going4truth 2 years ago
Yes.. that is the kind of followers God is looking for. The ones he has to "prove" everything to. Joseph Smith is just another prophet. Moses was a prophet. You have to take him at his word if you buy into the 5 books of Moses.. you have to take Isaiah at his word.. for he too was a Prophet. You have to take the Apostle Paul at his word too. And he never met Christ face to face either in real life. At least Peter, James and John did. Jesus didn't write a thing. So is he really real?
MrNirom 2 years ago
You'd be supprised how many things can be proved by archaelogy...look up brant gardner.
tro55 2 years ago
The kind of followers God is looking for are the DISCERNING kind. The kind that wont fall for something just because somebody claims God says so (David Koresh and Jim Jones made similar claims).
IMO we should be able to count on God to be unchanging. The god of JS doesn't measure up! He said that polygamy would be an everlasting covenant (D&C132), and just decades later changed his mind!
We need to know the TRUE God in order to be where He is, after our time here is completed!
going4truth 2 years ago
The God of the New Testament did away with the law of Moses which was given by the God of the Old Testament. The God of the Old Testament was kill man, woman, and child... and the God of the new testament was love thy neighbor. So.. is God the same yesterday, today and forever? Or does he give laws based on the way people can handle them? God's ways are not man's ways. David Koresh or Jim Jones do not even compare to Joseph Smith! Those are peanuts in the bowl of Cashews.
MrNirom 2 years ago
If you got that the God of the OT was kill man, woman, and child wouldn't the Nephites have needed the same message, even tho allegedly visited by Jesus after He rose? Youd think that event wouldve been impressive enough for their progeny to STILL be telling the story! Instead they succumbed to baser ways and were destroyed, even to the last baby! (hate when that happens)
Was the BoM shared with the Nephites and Lamanites in their native reformed egyptian language? If not, why not?
going4truth 2 years ago
No.. the Nephites were not the same as the Jewish Nation as a whole. Look up "Great White Spirit" or Great white God. There language of reformed Egyptian was not native. That was what they "called" it. It doesn't mean the same to them as it does to us.
MrNirom 2 years ago
@MrNirom they give you the paper with what to say you just look for the scriptures, everything have manual,people hardly say anything to contradict the manual.
iloveabbie12 1 year ago
@iloveabbie12 Not everything in this statement is true. Yes.. we have manuals and books that we refer to just as anyone does who is learning. The manual is a guide post of doctrine that has been approved for general membership. I have learned about doctrines that do not conform to the "approved" teaching of the church.. so I don't teach those doctrines. It is not my place. When the Lord wants those doctrines to be taught.. he will do it from the top down.. not the bottom up.
MrNirom 1 year ago
Has this man found the truth?
Is this man a born again christian?
Praise the lord he is out of the cult
PoliticallyOutspoken 3 years ago 3
And what truth would that be?
MrNirom 3 years ago
Christianity.
Seriously. are you mormons blind?
READ THE HISTORY!
lorenzo snow ;; as man is, god once was; as god is, man may become.
thats not biblical.
Sorry you just got owned
PoliticallyOutspoken 3 years ago
Christianity?...really.....what form of christianity?..your modern based exegesis christianity?.....hmm man may become?...thats not biblical...have you ever heard of Deification of Man...read revelation a little bit more carefully and a little bit more deeper....Have you read anything on the early church fatehers and what they believed?...parallels bro....parallels...know what your talking about before you say people "got owned" on a topic that shows primarily your ignorance.
GorillaSaint 3 years ago
"A little bit more deeper"?? Yeah,that's right,if you read deep enough,you will "discover" whatever it is that you WANT to believe.
tezkingkong 3 years ago
wow....what a weak argument...yeah what in the world are you talking about?...u cant even answer my questions, you just assume through logical fallacy
GorillaSaint 3 years ago
Hi Nirom, this truth would be found in Handels Messiah. The Tab. Choir sings it all the time.
Isaiah 9: 6
For unto Us a Child is born, unto Us a Son is given: and the government shall be upon His shoulder: and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Jesus is not your spirit brother, he is God!
GiftoAll 3 years ago
GiftoAll: Jesus is not your spirit brother, he is God!
And who is his Father? Who is this Deity that Jesus continued to do the will of? Who is this God that Christ called out to on the cross saying "My God, My God"? Who's voice came out of heaven saying "This is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased" at the baptism of Jesus? and at the same time.. the Holy Ghost appears in the form of a dove?
Now that is all Biblical. That same Father that Christ has.. is our Father too.
MrNirom 3 years ago
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let US make man in our image, after our likeness...
Genesis 1:27 So God created man in HIS own image...
Who is God? us? there is only one God so who then is us? Try not to think to much about it though, we cannot understand nor are we surposed to. As long as you have faith that God is 3 in one, Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one.
Exodus314IAM 3 years ago
In the beginning of of what? All time? or this time? God has said he has created worlds without end.. like sands upon the sea. So how many of those worlds are earth like? The Father.. the Son.. and the Holy Spirit are one in Purpose. They have the same goal. To bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. They are 3 separate individuals but one in purpose. God is in us.. and we in him.. yet we are ourselves and he is himself. He is our Father.. we are his sons and daughters.
MrNirom 3 years ago
Do you think God is bound by time? he created time and space, he is not bound by it. I think this is where you get confused. You put God is a time limitation. Look farther into it, it is way bigger than me or you.
Exodus314IAM 3 years ago
Exo: Yes.. it is greater. But what we are referring to is what we know.. and what God wants us to know and what he feels is important for us to know and understand. Do not think that you have all knowledge concerning God because you have the Bible. The Bible is only what God has currently given us.. not everything. If you assume that what he speaks of is everything.. you could be wrong and therefore as the word assume says.. it makes an ass out of u & me.
MrNirom 3 years ago
Ok the Bible does have everything we need to spend eternity in heaven with him. What does the Book of Mormon have that the Bible does not? Temple Marriage? Baptizm of the Dead? Chance to repent after you die? Three levels of heaven? So does it? Nope!
Exodus314IAM 3 years ago
23 Verily I say unto you, that whoso repenteth of his sins through your words, and desireth to be baptized in my name, on this wise shall ye baptize them—Behold, ye shall go down and stand in the water, and in my name shall ye baptize them... saying... 25 Having authority given me of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen. 26 And then shall ye immerse them in the water, and come forth again out of the water.
MrNirom 3 years ago
This is from the Book of Mormon 3 nephi 11 but all it talks about is Baptizm. not in the templ or for the dead? I think the question was a little to hard, im sorry. Also it is impossible to answer since it is not there.
Please put your faith in Jesus (the Jesus of the Bible) and come to him. God Loves you and wants you to see the truth!
oh Baptizm of the Dead is in D&C 124 but not the Bible or Book of Mormon.
Exodus314IAM 3 years ago
I gave you ONE thing that Book of Mormon has that shows why one needs it. The Bible talks about baptism.. but not how to be baptized.
You know that there were many things that were revealed to the Apostles that they were not allowed to write about. Why do you think this is? Because the people could not accept the smallest things let alone the deeper mysteries of God. As the faith of people increase.. so does the teachings about God. In the BoM there is only 1/100 of what was written.
MrNirom 3 years ago
He is still a member of the LDS church... But as some LDS (that does not stand up for truth), they want a shift in the church - more focus on Jesus - and move away from Joseph Smith... You cant become a member if you dont believe Joseph Smith.. - But in 10 years - I believe we have a different LDS faith.... it moves toward christianity... but thats the danger too.. close to truth, but holds to damnable falsities
testskriftene 3 years ago
Joseph Smith was a prophet.. just like Moses. If there were books written about Moses.. you would be reading them. If you had a history of the Apostle Paul.. you would read it and discuss it too. We speak a lot about Christ and his teachings. We speak about Joseph and his teachings about Christ. Jesus Christ never wrote a thing. Anything you read is about him by someone else. It is Jesus Christ who spoke to Joseph Smith. Why would we discard what he had to say?
MrNirom 3 years ago
You are correct MrNirom, Jesus did speak through others, and today he still does. Just not the same as the old Prophets, just like I am right now. God has a plan for you and me and we are to bring everyone to him (God of the Bible) He loves us all and does not want anyone to perish. But sadly, alot will, but not from lack of trying to save everyone. If you fail, its not because of God not trying to save you, its from your own free will.
Put the words of the Bible first in your life!
Exodus314IAM 3 years ago
Even while claiming special status as an "insider" and as a faithful member of the Church, and while having employment with the Church Education System, Palmer worked on this critical book for twenty years.
Getting paid by the Church.. and writing a book against it. Hmmm that sounds real honest.
Palmer consistently presents only one side of a question and only uses evidence that supports his views. He consistently avoids evidence that would be contrary to his point of view.
MrNirom 3 years ago
stop defending your faith,
he wrote a FACTUAL book
PoliticallyOutspoken 3 years ago 4
If LDS dropped its doctrines about the sexual nature of the God of the Bible and the nature of salvation (Morman men become gods), and just continued with its genius for building strong families it would thrive.
notonmypage 3 years ago
There is more written about the potential of man and what he is to become than not when it comes to the Bible. God promises to give us all that he has.. and praytell.. what is it that all he has?
MrNirom 3 years ago
I couldn't find any information about a 60 minutes interview when I googled it.
Weasel7711 3 years ago
i´l send you the video
testskriftene 3 years ago
Can I have a copy too?
nathanielmacrae 3 years ago
go to amazon
testskriftene 3 years ago