Dismantling the Criticisms of Unschooling 5

[kozychik]

I always believed that a child's grade reflects the teacher more than the student. I started to read and write at age 2, wrote my first poem at age 4, had lots of children's books and loved reading.

After 3 years of school (age 7) my teachers were telling my parents that I had a 'reading comprehension problem'. Their "tests" had said so. And instead of telling the teachers they were idiots, my parents were embarrassed and disappointed in me.

For 10 years I felt stupid and hated reading.

[kozychik]

Watch RSA Animate - Drive: The surprising truth about what motivates us

for the scientific findings that support what everything he is saying in this video.

[BozzyxThexScizor]

Agreed, I'm most of the time left to my own devices, what people don't realize is that even during my time in school, I learnt far more from my surroundings than actual school. I might pick up on some info and just store it away. That's how people naturally learn, from their surroundings and their natural curiosity.

Forcing science on me makes me bored and my attention strays.

These 'education experts' no nothing of human instinct and human nature.

Education system makes me facepalm.

[leavesof3]

Actually, I watched them all in order.

[smcdougs]

I appreciate that you (UnschoolingEagle) respond with thoughtfulness to the video comments. great series!

[kailabreece]

Humans are curious... certainly, but most are not profound thinkers. If they were, I would expect more scientists and doctors than aspiring actors, singers, and athletes.

[kailabreece]

This may sound arrogant, but too many children today couldn't identify where they lived on a map, tell you about their nations history, or even understand the concept of evolution. This is a problem because if we don't know where we are, how we got here and where we came from, we will continue to struggle with the same troubles every generation, regardless of technology. Allowing for open ended learning WITH universal ed is a great combination, but as a stand alone, I would be nervous.

[UnschoolingEagle]

And those children are attending our schools. Likely, the schools did try to teach these things, but since it was forced most of the children crammed it for a test, then forgot about it, that is usually what happens. Open ended learning with a universal system is what Alfie Kohn basically advocates. I'd agree but I also feel the child should have the freedom to not attend, yet that moves into Youth Rights...

[kailabreece]

Once again, I think the system is not the issue, it could be improved, but the real issue are poor teachers. No offense to my teacher friends, but I would be a better teacher then them. I taught several basic courses when in grad school... mostly gov't and policy, but the secret for me was ENGAGEMENT. 21st century education is hands on, and most teachers, at all levels, lecture, kids zone out. Real forced ed to me would be like getting tied down and proped up like in "Clockwork Orange"... lol.

[UnschoolingEagle]

It isn't that far off for 1st 2nd or 3rd graders. The issue is the teachers (and parents). Elementary schools should NEVER be silent... ever and standardized tests should NEVER have a place in elementary schools... homework should be an exception not a rule. I agree dude, engagement is important... if you cannot engage the child, then no one has the right to force that child to pay attention.

[UnschoolingEagle]

Most teachers don't have the patience or skill to work with pre-schoolers and kindergartners. This is because they have yet to be fully opressed. These young children are ALWAYS asking, "why, why, why, why, why, why, why." Many adults get annoyed with this and tell them to stop asking and to just sit and listen... that is why more children are not trying to be scientists.... scientists who always ask "why".

[kailabreece]

Sounds like we just need more teachers... more individual engagement. My high school classes ranged from 10 to 15 people... the smaller the better. More personal attention. The why's can be answered.

[UnschoolingEagle]

I totally agree.... we also need teachers who enjoy the company of children. Who respect children... our society needs to change fundamentally. Currently throwing in more teachers would have a positive effect, but many problems will not go away. Obedience and compliance should not be a concern in school, it should be the rare exception, not the all too common rule.

[kailabreece]

Totally. But there are many children who are already, excuse the phrase, damaged goods. If you've worked in the inner city system before, you'll know what I mean. No matter what the community or the teacher does, the child's influences stem from home and home is a mess... the child is a reflection of that turmoil and it is near impossible to bring them to a level ground, let alone help them soar.

[UnschoolingEagle]

I agree, as the high school I work in is a town that has good areas and really bad areas... these people need to want to be helped, they need to want it from within... I just don't think and tough strict authority helps a person like that.

[kailabreece]

I don't know... people like Mike Tyson were ONLY guided and helped through the STRICTEST discipline. That is why really "bad" kids are sent to "boot camps." Many military kids found order, structure, and purpose by being in controlled / challenging environments.

[UnschoolingEagle]

There is nothing wrong with a challenge... or challenging environment... as for strictly controlled... for me that is up in the air... I mean, Mike Tyson isn't exactly the greatest role model... the military... where they need to be trained like that to not disobey orders... to kill. Boot camps? I have problems with many of those juvenile systems. Most of the kids in those situations are not from loving and respectful environments and no matter the control... usually have problems from it.

[kailabreece]

My point being... structure is not always a bad thing. Many people who lack structure achieve great things when thrown into it.

[UnschoolingEagle]

I understand, but structure is not the same as control... which many people seem to think. Not saying you do.

[leavesof3]

@kailabreece People who crave structure are capable of creating it for themselves.

[DrBakshandeh]

@kailabreece my videos kinda get at the core of the evil that is schooling :)

[leavesof3]

@kailabreece . Excuse me, but I know kids sent to "boot camps" and military schools. None were helped by it in the long run. One man told me it taught him to be more sly and violent. He also started drinking heavily there. Some kids died by being tortured to death in "boot camps" too. That is why you hear so little about them these days. As a therapeutic foster parent, I can tell you that the more institutionalized the kid, the less likely they are to make it in the real world.

[leavesof3]

@kailabreece No human being should be referred to as damaged goods and if a teacher has become so impatient and bitter as to see them so, they should change jobs immediately. Not every household is perfect or safe. That does not mean that the sickest family should be considered the norm.

[kailabreece]

Maybe being "forced" is a mindset of a child who feels uncomfortable with direction/orders, challenge & new ideas. I never felt forced to learn anything in school. When a topic was presented that I wasn't too keen on, I'd still try to grasp it... and yes some of my advanced placement courses have no bearing on my practical day-to-day life, but many of my personal hobbies were 1st introduced by teachers of this very system.

[UnschoolingEagle]

It is normal to be uncomfortable with directions/orders. Children are autonomous, just like any other person. Children love challenges and new ideas, but when we grade them, reward them, and punish them for bad work.... this makes them shy away from challenging and new ideas. Behaviorism is the enemy in this area.

[kailabreece]

I would disagree. Some children are driven by grades... I was one. I did not get bad grades... maybe it was an ego thing, but I always compared myself to my peers and even my parents. Do I think some children do shy away, yes, and we must find away to bring them back to the circle and engage them appropriately. The goal is to bring ALL minds on full alert. Nothing is more exciting the a new idea. Nothing.

[UnschoolingEagle]

Being driven by grades... for the majority, is not a good thing. The focus shifts from learning to grades. To pleasing the adults, the material needed for the good grade becomes an obstacle and a nuisance. I highly suggest you read Alfie Kohn's "Punished by Rewards"...

[kailabreece]

I'll look into that. However, I wasn't chasing grades for grade sake, I liked knowing more than others, and my grades were medals of honor. Hard work, discipline, fortitude, and creative insight.

[UnschoolingEagle]

Okay that makes sense. You weren't being baited by grades, and grades were not the main goal... they were symbols of achievement. Am I right? That's fine... in general though, grades are not just used to measure ones ability and skills. They are used as rewards and punishments... to try and manipulate the behavior of the student.

[leavesof3]

@kailabreece I know several children who only read to get points. That is not because they naturally hate reading but because they've been taught that the only value of books is to get points. How absurd and backward! No child is naturally driven by grades. Grades are make believe. The fear of failure is tangable in many students. Adult acceptence drives them, or the fear of losing it.

[leavesof3]

That is not healthy. It does not create in them a passion for learning, only a fear of being less, being unwanted or rejected. They are driven by fear, not by joy. It does not have to be like that.

[RowanFortuneWood]

I agree, 5*. I would also add that 'educational activities' and 'non-educational activities' is a false dichotomy. Humans interact with the world, find problems and learn solutions. This is as inevitable as breathing. Schools want to caricature learning as an activity that occurs only within their buildings and under certain conditions, i.e. when an adult is standing before a large group of bored people telling them what they should know and then testing them according to artificial criteria.

[UnschoolingEagle]

Exactly, schools squash real learning and replace it with this strange way of passive learning.

By the way, thanks for watching all the vids lol

[RowanFortuneWood]

My pleasure, thanks for uploading them.

[DrBakshandeh]

It seems Michael Jackson is getting more hits than us.

[adace1]

Billie Jean is not my lover...

[UnschoolingEagle]

Michael Jackson could have molested a whole daycare center, including the workers, and he'd still have a huge fan base LoL and he'd still get more hits haha. Oh the media is great isn't it? /sarcasm