One of the main things that comes out for me in this scene is the news reaching the other agents, each one raising a finger to their ear as they receive the news then it holds at CJ as Butterworth comes to tell her. She doesn't have an earpiece so it completely oblivious. TWW is the best drama to come out of the states, period.
I love the symbolism of the red and white roses. Especially when you consider that the play that Cj and the rest of the cast is watching is "The War of the Roses," where the symbols of the warring houses are red and white roses.
Thanks to the Korean grocer for giving Donovan the heads-up. And how about his superior law enforcement instincts, worrying more about his Milky Way fix than checking for the second robber.
@Taurikxaris Hmmm, that is what I assumed, think was just the way it was done. Why he didn't ring for help instead? Was he scared he was going to get shot etc. Think am just over thinking it. :-). Still an amazing scene though.
As much as I love Aaron S, this was one of the dumbest things he wrote. a robber would not randomly shoot and kill someone and then run away when there is nothing to gain.
Some of the best acting we've ever seen in the show, Ron's fantastic. We've watched him stone-faced through so much, even getting his hand half shot off. The only time you see emotion from him is when he tells Leo that Zoey's been kidnapped, and his face here as he's telling C.J. tells you how he feels about his people. CJ is fantastic, and the story lines crashing into one another like 6 things gone instantly wrong at 80 mph on the highway, just amazing writing, acting. Best show on TV.
Of the many, many things that I owe to The West Wing is discovering some great music: Dire Straits' Brothers in Arms, Jeff Buckley's (and Leonard Cohen's) Hallelujah, Lisa Gerrard's Sanvean, Ryan Adams' Desire..... Thank you!
Of the many, many things that I owe to The West Wing is discovering some great music: Dire Straits' Brothers in Arms, Jeff Buckely's (and Leonard Cohen's) Hallelujah, Lisa Gerrard's Sanvean, Ryan Adams' Desire..... Thank you!
@DirectingJack They're watching a scene from Henry VI Part 3 (Act 1 Scene 4). It's a play about the Wars of the Roses, and so I think it's really beautiful the way they've combined it with the footage of red and white roses falling around Donovan's body.
@nyraider91 Considering the position the second robber had from where he shot, he still had a line of fire on the store owner. The store owner was already terrified and couldn't even alert Donovan to the existence of the robbers. Donovan figured that out from seeing the empty cash register himself. So the store owner probably thought he would still be shot if he said anything, regardless of Donovan being present and having revealed his status.
not only does the song fit the scene so well but theres the symbolism from the flowers to his hand. this is one of the few songs that get me to cry, and i still have to have the right images in my head. but this song and the way they put it all together still cuts to the heart and gets a few tears even when im as happy as u can be
best episode of the best series ever. no matter how many time i see this, i'm in floods. i've got to the stage where i dread finishing season 3 on my box set, because i KNOW i'm gonna need kleenex! worse than 2 cathedrals!
@hook85 As you went and did research on it, I take it you haven't heard the different versions before, Bono's is a spoken word version, very upbeat and not that good in my eyes. This version, the Jeff Buckley is slow and soft because he treats the song as a tribute to women, a sexual song about beauty and attraction. Search on youtube for both versions and see if there's anyway to confuse them then :)
this might be the most moving 5 minutes of television Ive ever seen. Yes, a lot if it has to do with the music, but CJ's anguish on that bench is palpable
@tdogballer I am so glad to hear that someone else is watching it over and over again. I do to It seems as if it is the only show on TV that merits a repeat. Best show I ever saw and those who never watched or didn't like it are missing something terrific
i don't think that its unrealistic that he didn't check the perimeter, before and after he arrested the other man and got shot, he was acting kind of cocky (not in a bad way, but he was excited - Sorkin wanted his mood to be high to counterpoint the abrupt sadness - a swift change in the audience's emotions will have a bigger impact) and so let his guard down. i knew from the moment he started getting carried away with himself that this was exactly what was going to happen.
which is why this is TV not in real life, this is for dramatic effect, so even if it's not real, it's just how they did it. Everyone knows no SS agent would do that, even the actors themselves knew it, the actor's SS trainer even called him about this, but unfortunately this is how they wrote it, and not everything on TV has to follow real life.
i love all of it - sorkin was great but the show still had fantastic writing after he left; The Supremes, A Good Day, The Debate and Election Day parts 1 and 2 spring to mind as the best of the post sorkin seasons. having said that, my all time favourite episode was written by aaron sorkin - 20 Hours In America (part 2). "the streets of heaven are too crowded with angels tonight" - gets me every time
damn! i hate this episode - i have just paused it as he arrests the guy cause i know whats coming. i am glad cj ended up with danny, they were perfect for each other, but i loved the relationship between cj and donovan and the end of this was so sad.
arrogant idiot (love Mark Harmon though - Jethro Gibbs), did not check to see if there was anyone else in there - could not rely on the clerk as he was scared sh+*less - should have done it himself. Great use of Hallelujah with CJ in shock
I've always been a fan, but recently completed watching the entire series, start to finish, all 7 seasons. Took maybe 6 months. Of all the books, movies, or TV shows I've ever seen, I think The West Wing taken as a whole is simply the greatest story I've ever known.
@MikeRDar Taken as a whole? Ick. The West Wing's last three seasons betrayed, line by line, every single thing the show was made of in the first four seasons. It's a terrible, terrible, absolutely sickening and disgusting story that offends my dignity, intelligence, and worldview. But if you look at just the first four seasons, it's definitely a breathtaking, exquisite unfinished tale. The power of moments like these transcended what was shown on screen and made their fictional world palpable.
This was so sad... I knew it was gonna happen. Nobody had died yet and it was the season finale. But either way, set to that perfect song, it was really moving.
Great series, and Harmon was amazing. Does anybody know that Harmon's father, Tom, won the Heisman Trophy at Michigan in the late 1930s early 1940s? And, Mark himself was a star QB at UCLA in the arly 1970s.
Concerning drama, I expect things to be very realistic for a great show like the West Wing.
True about the storekeeper. This is partially what led me to question the whole scene. These slightly unrealistic circumstances made me loose for a moment my suspension of disbelief. I felt like the writers wanted to kill him, but they couldn't find a more realistic way to do it.
On a sidenote: Wow! I'm being voted down for this! This is just my opinion. This is nothing offensive or outrageous.
I don't think it was a mistake. The other guy had a gun trained on the storekeeper, he didn't want to say anything otherwise it woulda been him who got shot.
You saw how he ran away...he obviously didn't care about anyone but himself.
oh, nah, I wasn't referring to that, I was referring to the show having a federally trained agent go down without clearing the entire store first. They could of written it better than that
You aren't the only people who notice that this was unrealistic for a trained agent to not secure his surroundings. In fact, the secret service agent who trained Mark Harmon for the role called him up and asked Mark Harmon why didn't Donovan check the perimeter! Of course MH could only play it the way the writers wrote it.
Honestly, I think they just wrote that scene for dramatic purposes, not really because of realism. Still, it was a powerful scene nonetheless.
It is said the most dangerous time for a cop is when they are off duty because their guard is down..... Donovan had relaxed and gone off duty in his head...It gave Allison a chance for some great work, without saying a word.....
As fantastic as this scene is, all I can think is "Wow, Josh has a nice place."
GuppyOdyssey 3 weeks ago
West Wing makes me cry so easily >.< It's beautiful though
BodhisattvaBlooming 1 month ago
The Sopranos has Tony saving AJ from the pool. The West Wing has this. TV doesn't get better.
darkknight07100 1 month ago
Brings a tear to my eye every time, the owner of the store should have said there were two
Sineath2290 2 months ago
One of the main things that comes out for me in this scene is the news reaching the other agents, each one raising a finger to their ear as they receive the news then it holds at CJ as Butterworth comes to tell her. She doesn't have an earpiece so it completely oblivious. TWW is the best drama to come out of the states, period.
sarnieken 2 months ago
I always cry when I see this scene.
chocopotX 4 months ago
@chocopotX
Same here. Hell, same for the song.
sakar181 3 months ago
@sakar181 Yes, I always cry when I hear this song, too.
chocopotX 3 months ago
this scene is why Allison Janney is one of my favorite actresses.
LKR3946 4 months ago
Always gives me the chills.
I love the symbolism of the red and white roses. Especially when you consider that the play that Cj and the rest of the cast is watching is "The War of the Roses," where the symbols of the warring houses are red and white roses.
wrestlingdog 4 months ago
Thanks to the Korean grocer for giving Donovan the heads-up. And how about his superior law enforcement instincts, worrying more about his Milky Way fix than checking for the second robber.
markkremser 5 months ago
I always wondered if the oriental guy was in on it.with him running out the shop etc?
sarnieken 5 months ago
@sarnieken no because he didnt know donovan was goingto come into the shop but he knew he was gettin robbed
milesthemelonator 4 months ago
@sarnieken Man ran for help
Taurikxaris 2 months ago
@Taurikxaris Hmmm, that is what I assumed, think was just the way it was done. Why he didn't ring for help instead? Was he scared he was going to get shot etc. Think am just over thinking it. :-). Still an amazing scene though.
sarnieken 2 months ago
I lied. The first 3 seasons of this show were some of the greatest TV ever. I originally said it was only the first 2 seasons.
yankee2479 5 months ago
sorry, guy. you broke a BIG rule--you didn't clear the room before you turned your baCK
spacewrangler68 9 months ago
Why wouldn't the shop owner tell him that there was a second armed robber??!!
JustinMM1985 10 months ago 3
@JustinMM1985 because the guy was standing off to his side with a gun already drawn., he was scared shitless?
cerrenes 9 months ago
As much as I love Aaron S, this was one of the dumbest things he wrote. a robber would not randomly shoot and kill someone and then run away when there is nothing to gain.
GrandMasterFreshMpls 10 months ago
@GrandMasterFreshMpls Actually... the majority of murders play out that way. People panic, do something stupid and then try and get out of dodge.
Significantpower 4 months ago
don't know why the proprietor couldn't have said there were two gunmen.
hollywoodwerewolf 1 year ago
Some of the best acting we've ever seen in the show, Ron's fantastic. We've watched him stone-faced through so much, even getting his hand half shot off. The only time you see emotion from him is when he tells Leo that Zoey's been kidnapped, and his face here as he's telling C.J. tells you how he feels about his people. CJ is fantastic, and the story lines crashing into one another like 6 things gone instantly wrong at 80 mph on the highway, just amazing writing, acting. Best show on TV.
PrisonerNumber9653 1 year ago 2
Gibbs would have kicked his ass
angel102ify 1 year ago 6
I like Mary Louise Parker, but HATED her on this show...like her on Weeds, though
jillhbaudhaan 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Of the many, many things that I owe to The West Wing is discovering some great music: Dire Straits' Brothers in Arms, Jeff Buckley's (and Leonard Cohen's) Hallelujah, Lisa Gerrard's Sanvean, Ryan Adams' Desire..... Thank you!
auriciangelescu 1 year ago
Of the many, many things that I owe to The West Wing is discovering some great music: Dire Straits' Brothers in Arms, Jeff Buckely's (and Leonard Cohen's) Hallelujah, Lisa Gerrard's Sanvean, Ryan Adams' Desire..... Thank you!
auriciangelescu 1 year ago
Were the staffers watching Shakespeare's MacBeth at the theater?
DirectingJack 1 year ago
@DirectingJack They're watching a scene from Henry VI Part 3 (Act 1 Scene 4). It's a play about the Wars of the Roses, and so I think it's really beautiful the way they've combined it with the footage of red and white roses falling around Donovan's body.
ThyVoiceIsMusic 1 year ago 2
In the future, if you're wondering, "Crime - Boy, I don't know" is when I decided to kick your ass.
Zackattack52287 1 year ago 3
Comment removed
Zackattack52287 1 year ago
This makes me cry so much every time! Allison Janney seriously deserved every single one of those four Emmys she won.
MissHazelFlagg 1 year ago 2
25fps PAL makes the audio all sped up :(
JoseJimeniz 1 year ago
Why didn't the grocer tell warn him about the second guy!!!
nyraider91 1 year ago
@nyraider91 Considering the position the second robber had from where he shot, he still had a line of fire on the store owner. The store owner was already terrified and couldn't even alert Donovan to the existence of the robbers. Donovan figured that out from seeing the empty cash register himself. So the store owner probably thought he would still be shot if he said anything, regardless of Donovan being present and having revealed his status.
Ovrkyl 1 year ago
not only does the song fit the scene so well but theres the symbolism from the flowers to his hand. this is one of the few songs that get me to cry, and i still have to have the right images in my head. but this song and the way they put it all together still cuts to the heart and gets a few tears even when im as happy as u can be
voiceofbooks 1 year ago
poor mark he should of stayed on the show o well to bad
nciscrew 1 year ago
Jeff Buckly's is my favorite version of Cohen's Hallelujah.
Kaalec 1 year ago
best episode of the best series ever. no matter how many time i see this, i'm in floods. i've got to the stage where i dread finishing season 3 on my box set, because i KNOW i'm gonna need kleenex! worse than 2 cathedrals!
drmaccadavid 1 year ago
In my opinion this was the greatest episode of TV drama I ever saw, and this is it's emotional climax.
flexdream 1 year ago
@flexdream thank you I've been saying that for the longest time, and remember the line "Take him" oh it is so good
osusnowman 1 year ago
There's been some harsh stuff on the West Wing but Donovan's death was brutal....I hated them for writing it but I'm watching in now...crazy!
spaceyrules 1 year ago
Sorry lilacgurl8, it isn't Bono. You've got your facts wrong, a quick google proves you wrong.
What was the music that was played in the third season finale during and after the convenience store fiasco in "Posse Comitatus"?
Jeff Buckley's version of Leonard Cohen's "Hallelujah"
The IMDB for S3E22 "Posse Comitatus" says:
"Hallelujah" Written by Leonard Cohen Performed by Jeff Buckley
hook85 1 year ago 11
@hook85 As you went and did research on it, I take it you haven't heard the different versions before, Bono's is a spoken word version, very upbeat and not that good in my eyes. This version, the Jeff Buckley is slow and soft because he treats the song as a tribute to women, a sexual song about beauty and attraction. Search on youtube for both versions and see if there's anyway to confuse them then :)
andyt2k 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
umm It's not Jeff Buckley's Hallelujah;
Bono sings it; the original is Leonard Cohen
lilacgurl8 1 year ago
I like this halleiujah very much.
Wose song is this ?
from Japan
sonydeson 1 year ago
@sonydeson Jeff Buckley's cover of the song "Hallelujah," originally recorded by Leonard Cohen.
benuneko 1 year ago
@benuneko thank you very much. the west wing is released until season5 in Japan. I was removed by this Hallelujah and next Brothers in arms.
sonydeson 1 year ago
this might be the most moving 5 minutes of television Ive ever seen. Yes, a lot if it has to do with the music, but CJ's anguish on that bench is palpable
heorap 1 year ago 41
@heorap I agree. The most memorable also.
flexdream 6 months ago
Why no west? Why did not the guy tell him there was two?? Like... "Hey dude! There was two of them!"
Inganotodden 2 years ago
Mark Harmon's bit part character needed to be killed in order for him to be the lead character on NCIS, tragic!
Kotori32 2 years ago
anyone ask why he didnt have a vest on?
JasonG5489 2 years ago
because it wouldnt have made such good tv if he had a vest on
ensayers 2 years ago 2
@tdogballer I am so glad to hear that someone else is watching it over and over again. I do to It seems as if it is the only show on TV that merits a repeat. Best show I ever saw and those who never watched or didn't like it are missing something terrific
joni1495k 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
LOL CJ has the worst luck with guys!
CorisDavis913 2 years ago
Why wouldn't the shop owner alert him there was another guy there?
crimdell 2 years ago
i don't think that its unrealistic that he didn't check the perimeter, before and after he arrested the other man and got shot, he was acting kind of cocky (not in a bad way, but he was excited - Sorkin wanted his mood to be high to counterpoint the abrupt sadness - a swift change in the audience's emotions will have a bigger impact) and so let his guard down. i knew from the moment he started getting carried away with himself that this was exactly what was going to happen.
TheCobbledAlley 2 years ago
Only no Secret Service agent let's their guard down ever especially in a hostile situation.
CorisDavis913 2 years ago
which is why this is TV not in real life, this is for dramatic effect, so even if it's not real, it's just how they did it. Everyone knows no SS agent would do that, even the actors themselves knew it, the actor's SS trainer even called him about this, but unfortunately this is how they wrote it, and not everything on TV has to follow real life.
BetaArtemis 2 years ago 2
It's such a petty death, which is why it's so tragic, yet well done.
HyperMangoKid 2 years ago
I was crying too much to notice the faults of this episode...it's just too damn heartbreaking.
kevincostnermyhero 2 years ago
Also, he would have been carrying and have used handcuffs...not his tie.
FrozenEMT 2 years ago
i love all of it - sorkin was great but the show still had fantastic writing after he left; The Supremes, A Good Day, The Debate and Election Day parts 1 and 2 spring to mind as the best of the post sorkin seasons. having said that, my all time favourite episode was written by aaron sorkin - 20 Hours In America (part 2). "the streets of heaven are too crowded with angels tonight" - gets me every time
lane0065 2 years ago
The agent who informs CJ about Simon-is that the actor who played the character of Detective Gaddis in the Mark Harmon series Reasonable Doubts?
kkkkkk320 2 years ago
damn! i hate this episode - i have just paused it as he arrests the guy cause i know whats coming. i am glad cj ended up with danny, they were perfect for each other, but i loved the relationship between cj and donovan and the end of this was so sad.
lane0065 2 years ago
arrogant idiot (love Mark Harmon though - Jethro Gibbs), did not check to see if there was anyone else in there - could not rely on the clerk as he was scared sh+*less - should have done it himself. Great use of Hallelujah with CJ in shock
nwalsham 2 years ago
it never wouldve happened if it were gibbs
skylerv94 2 years ago 2
lol, that store keeper couldn't of warned him?
No, but seriously, I was bawling when he died.
Doogner 2 years ago 2
It would have killed them to somehow off Amy?
heorap 2 years ago 2
here here!
joseph85delaney 2 years ago
This is apparently THE song for season finales.
kitkat9288 2 years ago
they say good tv/cinema should move you, reach out from the screen and make you feel something,
be it love, sorrow, hate or joy. Only a small few films and tv series ever manage to invoke some of these feelings to the viewer.
The West Wing could do them all, repeatedly.
Beg, borrow or steal, but whatever you do find the money to buy the complete box set.
Tv very rarely gets this good.
xworksmotorsport 3 years ago 47
I've always been a fan, but recently completed watching the entire series, start to finish, all 7 seasons. Took maybe 6 months. Of all the books, movies, or TV shows I've ever seen, I think The West Wing taken as a whole is simply the greatest story I've ever known.
MikeRDar 2 years ago
@MikeRDar Taken as a whole? Ick. The West Wing's last three seasons betrayed, line by line, every single thing the show was made of in the first four seasons. It's a terrible, terrible, absolutely sickening and disgusting story that offends my dignity, intelligence, and worldview. But if you look at just the first four seasons, it's definitely a breathtaking, exquisite unfinished tale. The power of moments like these transcended what was shown on screen and made their fictional world palpable.
Whillikersify 1 year ago
i must commend you on what i would say to be the best ever comment on you tube i have ever read.
davidtanner213 2 years ago
Couldn't agree with you more - this must be one of the best TV shows ever. Why can't there be more intelligent TV shows???
TheDriwa 2 years ago
@xworksmotorsport it also make you reflect
whynotbig 2 years ago
Just an incredible episode.
papelpapi 3 years ago 2
Ugh. Amy ruins everything
theslumsofsoftfocus 3 years ago
This was so sad... I knew it was gonna happen. Nobody had died yet and it was the season finale. But either way, set to that perfect song, it was really moving.
wynnewoodgunner 3 years ago 2
Great series, and Harmon was amazing. Does anybody know that Harmon's father, Tom, won the Heisman Trophy at Michigan in the late 1930s early 1940s? And, Mark himself was a star QB at UCLA in the arly 1970s.
hsalter1 3 years ago
The beautiful song is Hallelujah sung by Jeff Buckely and it's on youtube. You can also see a beautiful version by Il Divo.
farmboyhh1 3 years ago
This is the best programme that has ever been and will be.
jamesthemod 3 years ago 2
I can't agree more!
stevendirk 3 years ago
Allison Janney is amazing. CJ was and is my favourite female tv character.
DollyLoverForever 3 years ago 5
I never believed this. He should have verified and secured the whole place before lowering his guard.
A real professional wouldn't have neglected this.
UnspokenRequest 3 years ago
It won't be drama then, would it?
Besides, the storekeeper should have pointed that out...
oneillsdm 3 years ago
Concerning drama, I expect things to be very realistic for a great show like the West Wing.
True about the storekeeper. This is partially what led me to question the whole scene. These slightly unrealistic circumstances made me loose for a moment my suspension of disbelief. I felt like the writers wanted to kill him, but they couldn't find a more realistic way to do it.
On a sidenote: Wow! I'm being voted down for this! This is just my opinion. This is nothing offensive or outrageous.
UnspokenRequest 3 years ago 5
I gave you a thumbs up! But, every show makes its mistakes
Soilboy 3 years ago
I don't think it was a mistake. The other guy had a gun trained on the storekeeper, he didn't want to say anything otherwise it woulda been him who got shot.
You saw how he ran away...he obviously didn't care about anyone but himself.
sd6operative47 3 years ago
oh, nah, I wasn't referring to that, I was referring to the show having a federally trained agent go down without clearing the entire store first. They could of written it better than that
Soilboy 3 years ago
You aren't the only people who notice that this was unrealistic for a trained agent to not secure his surroundings. In fact, the secret service agent who trained Mark Harmon for the role called him up and asked Mark Harmon why didn't Donovan check the perimeter! Of course MH could only play it the way the writers wrote it.
Honestly, I think they just wrote that scene for dramatic purposes, not really because of realism. Still, it was a powerful scene nonetheless.
BetaArtemis 2 years ago
It is said the most dangerous time for a cop is when they are off duty because their guard is down..... Donovan had relaxed and gone off duty in his head...It gave Allison a chance for some great work, without saying a word.....
emmyjo720 2 years ago 2
May the souls of those who protect us rest in peace!
faisj 3 years ago 3
brilliant piece of tv.
amazing song aswell.
ryangray07 3 years ago 2