Celtic Reconstructionism

[jajohnson7809]

I'd be curious to know how Celtic Reconstructionism differs from modern Druidry. Do CR's practice magic, and observe rituals of the wheel of the year? Thanks.

[CahanTiarnan]

grate video fiacharrey! I, myself, am not a Druid, for I do not have the vast university education needed to become a true, modern day, Iron-age re-constructionist Druid.

The Druids of the Iron-ages were more than just a religious group. They were the educated class of Celtic society. A Druid could be a Doctor of medicine, psychology or some other kind of doctor. (Doctor = most educated in a particular field of study). Most Druids had a firm knowledge of the following:

[CahanTiarnan]

@CahanTiarnan • Law • Education • Religion and Theology • Astronomy • Astrology • Political Science • General Medicine • First Aid • Herbology • Bardic Arts o • Reciting Stories o • Genealogy • • Be able to play at least one musical instrument (The Harp was the preferred musical instrument by the Iron-aged Bards). • Natural Magic

[CahanTiarnan]

@CahanTiarnan

(Just to name a few of their disciplines). So, if one is truly wishing to reconstruct the Druids of the Iron-ages, one must go to university and receive a few doctorates. Most people today, are unwilling to go through this much advanced education however, thus today’s Druids are a watered down version of the Iron-aged Druids, with some very rare exceptions.

[Catubrannos]

@3rosesred

It was the wealthy and powerful who after converting demanded that their subjects do likewise. It was commonsense on the part of the missionaries to convert the leaders for that reason. It's no different to companies using celebrities to promote their products today, the mass of the people still do what their stars and leaders tell them is best.

[channelhoplite]

What is known about the Gods of the Picts? I mean prior to christianity, most of whats now Scotland was still Pictish or Old Welsh/British Celtic. is much known about their Gods? (perhaps going by known tribal names).

[lazzara399]

Around 800 CE invading Christians began publication of the Book of Kells, or the Vulgate Bible, in which 'appropriated' celtic symbology was mixed with a comman language translation of the big book of lies known as the Bible, and a large portion of the population was taking in the by hoodwink. Fortunately, the true lineages of the gods of the Celts survived the various pograms initiated against them. It warms my celtic heart seeing the damage repaired.

[Amaethon100]

woo! CR for the win! im a welsh polytheist, it would be great to see more people follow this as, a lot of the place names and local legends in wales directly result from the religion, nice vid :)

[ladybitchface]

@TheWiccanRaven Thank you for pointing this out, I completely agree.

[debrandom]

I want to say that I really have enjoyed this video. My ancestors were from Ireland and I am very interested in learning how they practiced their faith.

[Catubrannos]

If you truly believe in a pantheon of gods, can you explain why these gods allowed their worship to be usurped by christianity? Is the christian god better than yours or did the ancient Irish etc fail in providing enough sacrifices and the gods deserted them?

[fiacharrey]

That's a question anyone of any faith has to deal with. It seems that deities, Judeao-Christian or Pagan, tend to stay out of political conflicts, content to allow the winner to be the one with the most guys with the biggest guns.

[Catubrannos]

Then there's not much point in worshiping them as they'll never help you out. On the other hand, people who are part of a religion apparently live longer and are less likely to get depressed according to a recent study.

[debrandom]

The same thing could be asked of Christians. If the Christian god is supreme why have their been Christian matyrs or why has anyone every died for being a Christian? For that matter why are there poor Christians. Isn't God powerful enough to keep his worshippers from knowing hunger or suffering?

[pscucailin]

Those who have faith in Christ do not suffer from hunger or anything else. When we hunger, he feeds us, just not neccessarily with food. It is a mental thing.

[debrandom]

I mean no disrespect toward any religion but how is feeding someone's soul going to help them as they watch their children starve to death? The answer sounds cavalier toward others' suffering.

Actually, the type of attitude that you express was spoken against in the book of James. If you are going to speak for Christians, at least do so correctly.

[pscucailin]

When did I say faith alone? I believe that that is a Lutheran phrase.

[debrandom]

I did not say that you said faith alone. I was simply pointing that out as an interesting fact.

[debrandom]

Here is the quote from James.James 2:15 If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day,

16

and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well," but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it?

By the way, if any of you want to drive a fundamentalist Christian nuts, point out that the only time that the Bible uses the phrase 'faith alone,' is in James. It basically says that 'faith alone' is incorrect.

[neballar]

@Catubrannos I would strongly suggest that you look deep into Christianity and see what the did in the conversion of previously beliefs into Christianity. They were killing people off who would not reform into their belief system. To be honest I suggest you ask true satanist ab out the back ground of it. There is very fucked up as to what happen.

[Catubrannos]

@neballar

The point was not about the people adhering to religion but about the actions of the gods themselves.

[TsugaC]

@Catubrannos The Torah (Old Testament) is replete with examples of Yahweh allowing misfortune and brutality to befall the Jews because of their failure to keep His commandments and strictures. Archaeological digs have recently revealed that before the Babylonian Diaspora, the Jews frequently offered prayers and small sacrifices to other deities besides Yahweh. Look up the Public Television NOVA program "The Bible's Buried Secrets".

*

Might the Celtic deities be doing the same thing?

[Catubrannos]

@TsugaC

Dumb plan as we don't even know who they are anymore. We have fragmentary evidence from Irish and Welsh myths, lots of inscriptions with names of local gods, but no real idea of how they interconnect. Compare that to the Norse gods who are still relatively well known thanks to the extra 1000 years they had before the Norse converted to christianity.

[TsugaC]

@Catubrannos I didn't say I thought it was a *wise* plan. ;-)

*

Bottom line, having read both Norse and Irish mythologies, one cannot help but notice the lack of a cohesive morality offered by either earlier faith. Both the Old Testament and the New offer a system of morality, the New offering a path to salvation, as well. These older faiths were killed not by the sword (look how long the Jews have been hated & oppressed), but because they were ultimately found wanting.

[princessannikki]

Great video. I have to say Germanic Recon has the same standpoint.

[heidelbergerin]

Great video. I love the paganacht website, thank you.

[fiacharrey]

My pleasure, as always. :)

[orbis2009]

Visit Traditional Catholic Reflections and Reports and see labels neo-paganism, Eastern Religions, Nihilism, Islam Europe, etc

[Stoirmeacha]

Why?

Celtic Reconstructionists aren't any of those.

[HergerSeamus]

what does catholicism have to do with anything. You don't think they might be a little biased toward their own agenda..dogma do ya?

[mike107210]

i know his god hates pagans, but it just annoys me, when i see or hear christians preaching about "goodwill to everyone", and then they go and say stuff like "God hates you!". nothing on them? damn, thanks anyway

[mike107210]

sorry, i just hate it when i see comments like "god hates pagans". who pscucailin is, they didn't have to watch the video. btw, you wouldn't happen to know of anyone who has information on the Iceni tribe would you? I've looking at my library and on the web, but it just tells me the stuff i already know (Boudicca and the revolt)

[fiacharrey]

It's cool. And, he's right - his god DOES hate pagans. :) Sorry, I don't have any resources on the Iceni.

[mike107210]

i only just learnt about it a few hours ago.

I didn't think much of it at first, but then i realised that my father's side of the family is gaelic, and my mothers side has scottish pict ancestry, now i'm interested. i really want to know more!

[pscucailin]

God hates pagans. No Pagans died for their faith in their supernatural existence.

[mike107210]

yes they did. Christians tortured them into converting, and burnt the ones who refused. You might want to check your history. You christians are all about "goodwill", and then you say something like that?

[pscucailin]

nah, they converted after the christians showed up their inferior pagan spirituality. Closest thing to druids today are ....

[mike107210]

there still are druids, just very few. just goes to show that the christians never did eradicate paganism.btw, you didn't HAVE to watch this video.

[pscucailin]

no, there are no druids, just idiots that having nothing better to do than reconstructions.

Hitler and Ludendorf were also fans of neo-paganism. What fine company you keep.

[mike107210]

did we SAY we were neo-pagans? no. Celtic Reconstructionalists. I don't know about Ludendorf, but the only reason Hitler created his own religion, was so that he could fill the vaccuum that was left when he imprisoned the protestants ( he couldn't touch the catholics due to the Concordat). Besides, you can't judge a whole group based on the actions of a few. Hitler didn't actually believe in the pagan gods, it was just another way of maintaining control.

[pscucailin]

Hitler was in to neo-paganism long before he ever came into power in Germany. Who knows??? Maybe the next Hitler will come out of your celtic reconstructionists....

I am all for learning and understanding the ancient customs of our people but druidism, like human sacrifice, is something better left in the past.

[mike107210]

your knowledge of german history is woefully lacking. Hitler was brought up as a Roman Catholic, and he is even quoted as believeing in an "Aryan Christ".

I am all for learning and understanding about Christianity, but the crusades, like countless innocent muslims being slaughtered, and the witch hunts, where countless women were burned alive, is something better left in the past.

[pscucailin]

I am sorry that you are so retarded mike that you feel the need to insult my knowledge of modern German history. I never said that Hitler was not raised Catholic, I said that he embraced neo-paganism long before he ever became fuehrer. And stop trying to be smart by copying my style.

[mike107210]

no need to insult me, im not insulting you, im just providing valid arguments. besides, if you want to remind me of human sacrifce, then i'll remind you of the crusades and the witch hunts. fair is fair.

[pscucailin]

The crusades were about getting the northern folk to fight muslims instead of continuing the dark ages in Europe. Sure, it was not moral, but in terms of geo-politics it was relatively tame, and a lot tamer than what the pagan northen men had done to europe for the past 6 centuries. As for the witch hunts, many of the women were probably up to something.

Let us not forget that the crimes of the church were much embellished and exaggerated by northern protestants as a part of the reformations.

[mike107210]

i can see your point on the crusades and the exaggerations, but i cant agree with what you said about the witch hunts. your basically saying that as there was a possibilty that the women were practising witchcraft, they deserved to die? Sounds a bit heartless.

Im actually enjoying this debate. :p

[HergerSeamus]

"many of the women were PROBABLY up to something" What?? What the fuck is that? They what...were gonna start some kind of counter-offensive against the catholic church? They were wise women..healers. Because the people went to them for herbal medicines and medical advice they were threats to the paranoid monks and priests. So..hey..I've got an idea..let's burn them at the stake in front of everybody!...lol. Nice way to excuse the barbarity of the witch hunts..LOL.

[pscucailin]

more likely they were shrews or abortionists or something. It is not like that many died compared to the what the pagans used to do.

[Catubrannos]

You have no idea what percentage of the pagan population was killed due to their religion or any other aspect of their life, no one does. It is therefore pointless making comparisons about something in which there are no facts.

[pscucailin]

Whilst paganism was suppressed, it would seem that it was suppressed by fairly mild practices similar to how racism is suppressed today. Read Gibbon on it.

[RadCelt]

pscucailin - Yes - paganism was suppressed - by GENOCIDE (sensless slaughter of MILLIONS OF HUMAN BEINGS) - More brought to you by the Roman Catholic Church.

[pscucailin]

??? paganism was suppressed with no murder in the Roman Empire. What are you on?

[RadCelt]

pscucailin - the context of my remarks was the RC Church's brutal suppression (especially through the 5th and 11th centuries) of pagan people's rites and worship. The Empire's (Ceaser's) conquest of Gual in 53 BCE had nothing to do with suppressing pagan worship - the point was to expand the Empire, gain political power and eventually seize rule in Rome - you might try paying closer attention so you can offer more intelligent reply -- Slán abhaile mo-fo.

[pscucailin]

You have no idea what you are talking about. I never mentioned Julius Caesar's Gallic wars. I talked about the spread of christianity in the pagan empire. It was peaceful with very little suppresion and practically no murder.

Between the 5th and 11th ceturies it was pagan vikings and Mohammedan barbarians doing all of the religious murder. I hate living in a time when people are just so ignorant.

[debrandom]

You need to broaden your reading a bit. Gibbons wrote in the late 1700's. Newer research has yielded different conclusions. Although I am not one of those who see all Christian or Catholic history as evil, there was persecution of pagans by Christians just as there was persecution of Christians by pagans. Once they gained power, Christians also persecuted one another.

[pscucailin]

What new evidence has yielded christian instigation of genocide against pagans?

Another place to look at the spread of christianity in a pagan society is to look at Ireland in the old myths.

Or even England.

[RadCelt]

What an ass - '... many of the women were probably up to something.'... HUH>? By up to something you mean midwifing, healing and otherwise 'usurping' male authority right? Misogynist f**k.

[Stoirmeacha]

I don't know if you have ever heard or read any of Hitler's speeches, but he was definately using Christianity, not "neo-Paganism", in most of his rhetoric. Not to mention Germanic Heathens were persecuted (forbidden to meet, and even thrown into concentration camps. Nazi Germany was very much a German Christian society.

[pscucailin]

Hitler was amoral and used whatever he could to justify what he wanted to do. He lied continuously and did not believe in God. He was in constant conflict with both the catholic and protestant churches and would have destroyed them both if he had of come back victorious over Russia. Nazi Germany was certainly not Christian, you need to educate yourself.

The SS were German heathens, look up their oath.

[Stoirmeacha]

You need some education yourself. SS Oath: Ich schwoere Dir Adolf Hitler, als Fuehrer und Kanzler des Reiches Treue und Tapferkeit. Ich gelobe Dir und den von Dir bestimmten Vorgesetzien gehorsam bis in den Tod, so wahr mir Gott helfe.

[pscucailin]

No, the real oaths

Ahnenerbe

[Stoirmeacha]

The Ahnenerbe were mainly concerned with building a pseudo-history depicting the "Aryan" race as once ruling the world.

The above IS the oath used within the SS.

[Stoirmeacha]

In case you don't speak any German, that last line would be the equivelant of saying "So help me God".

[FlashVirus]

@pscucailin

Come on, man. I can't stand historical revisionism on either side. If you read what Hitler said regarding religion you could see he had no true religion. He viewed religion as a tool to meet his ends, nothing more than that. This is evident when you read quotes of his on Catholicism and Islam in Mein Kampf and during World War 2.

[FlashVirus]

@pscucailin

To say they were "heathens" is being intellectually dishonest. If they were heathen then why did Astrau and Odinist/Wotanist groups end up being dismantled, with their esoteric leaders thrown into jail or death camps? It's utter nonsense. It isn't so black and white where you either have to accept pre-Christian Europe or reject it. That is nonsense. Europeans did great things under the Greek & Roman empire and also under the Renaissance. And Deists/Secualrists did even better..

[HergerSeamus]

Oh goody...so I get to list all of the christian murderous bastards?! Wonderful! christianity is such an innocent cuddly little religion without a violent history. Love..that's all it's ever taught..that's all it's ever proven itself to be. *sigh*

[pscucailin]

do not bother regaling me with protestant propaganda. Christianity is the best thing that ever happened to man. Without it, someone as dumb as you would of been born and died a slave. Be thankful to God.

[Stoirmeacha]

LMAO Yeah, because there was never slavery under Christianity.....

[HergerSeamus]

LOL! I see, so when one cannot make a valid arguement one resorts to the ol' stand by...personal attacks. So much for loving thy neighbor or loving thy enemy, which ever you prefer mr. christian. Go take your dogma and hatred someplace who gives a damn.

[pscucailin]

There was no personal attack, just a relevant observation.

You need to stop laughing so much because you just look like the token village idiot.

You obviously give far more of a damn than I, but than you are almost certainly some dumb kid who reacts like a brat when he loses the argument.

[fiacharrey]

"Someone as dumb as you" wasn't a personal attack? Really.

[pscucailin]

I actually won all the arguments Herger.

YOu are the one replying in a hateful manner to my comments.

You do not understand Christian dogma at all.

[CahanTiarnan]

@pscucailin Explain this then: (during the first crusade) Radulph of Caen a Catholic eyewitness to events at Ma'arra, in 1098, wrote, "In Ma'arra our troops boiled pagan adults in cooking-pots; they impaled children on spits and devoured them grilled."

The Chronicler Albert of Aix seemed to rank Muslims lower than dogs when he wrote: "Not only did our troops not shrink from eating dead Turks and Saracens; they also ate dogs!"

Murder + Cannibalism = Christian Justification and Justice!

[FlashVirus]

@pscucailin

Like I said, he was into esoteric germanic cults like the Thule. It wasn't a Germanic reconstructionist order. The goal was to study the Indo-Europeans migration, language, etc.. to prove an Aryan master race.

[fiacharrey]

Technically, I do think we are neo-pagans. We are pagans, we have a new tradition that is not an unbroken line to the past, so we are "neo." That being said, we are kind of the black sheep of the "neo-pagan" family. I don't find I have much in common with the average neo-pagan.

[CahanTiarnan]

@pscucailin Adolph Hitler was a devote Catholic, Not a Pagan, but a very powerful Christian! Look at all the Nazi paraphernalia, it has a lot of Catholic symbols throughout.

[fiacharrey]

Closest today are doctors, lawyers, scholars and priests, maybe also musicians, writers, poets, and stand-up comedians.

[pscucailin]

I was going to say judges. But yes you are right, all those things probably constitute the social class of druidism. However none of them practice human sacrifice.

[fiacharrey]

Ah yes, judges too. :) Well, modern judges do sentence people to death sometimes. The reason we don't call that a human sacrifice is that our spirituality is not as enmeshed with our daily lives as it was for the ancient Celts. It is believed that most human sacrifices were prisoners of war or criminals being executed. No reason to let a good killin' go to waste, though, so might as well offer it up to the gods. :)

[pscucailin]

Human sacrifices were not carried out on criminals but on German slaves, drugged up and than sliced open amid ritualistic chanting and prgy making. It must of been quite a grotesque spectacle to behold.

I said judges also because of the doctrine of judicial supremacy and the fact that they are immune from political winds and hold some degree of sway over politicians.

[fiacharrey]

I don't think we know for sure that much about the hows and whys of human sacrifice among the Celts, or the various localized differences. What you are saying sounds suspiciously like one of the accounts by Greek and/or Roman historians who had political axes to grind. My (atmittedly limited) understanding is that the archeological record doesn't back it up. OTOH, knowing what I do about the Celts, it's probably not far off base. :)

[HergerSeamus]

nah...your history is lacking my christian friend.

[HergerSeamus]

LOL! Now there's an arguement! My God is bigger than your God! Your jealous god who has to create fear in the hearts of his followers in order to make them worship him? I could care less whether your god hates pagans. Is that a fear based statement..."oh, no it's just a fact."...lol..AND? "oh wait ... you just converted me! I repent of my human nature and will kill human self everyday so as to not make jesus mad at me."

[pscucailin]

So you are pagans?

[HergerSeamus]

Yes I am! Unashamedly so. ( I know you christians like to be unashamedly christian as well. *wink*.)

[fiacharrey]

Yeah, that's basically the way it is. There are far too few of us to form much in the way of real communities. But, if I can be of any help, let me know.

[PoliticalExile2]

Nah man, you lost me when you started talking about celtic ancestry not being a requirement to practice the religion. I can't stand it when people take ethnic religions and try to present them as politically correct and universalist. You can keep your politically correct "anti-racist" paganism.

[MaelBrigde]

You know, PE2, I had a similar reaction at first glance, but think about it. Are only ancient Hebrews allowed to follow Christianity? Are only ancient Hindus allowed to practice Buddhism? The intent is to grow as close as we can to Celtic principles and sensibilities. Not to be racially pure. For that matter, the ancient Celts were not a race. So we could never BE racially pure, even if we wanted to.

[HergerSeamus]

well said! They were tribes linked by language.

[Nethercore]

"theSOASstudent" -- that was quite an inappropriate response to this video. I would suggest not doing that again.

[fiacharrey]

Meh. It's no big deal. It's pretty clear who the "loser" is. :)

[HoundofOdin]

Can you point me in the direction of information on specifically Scottish mythology or religion? I have been looking, but all I can find is Irish stuff.

[ancadhlach]

Does anyone know are there any CR groups in Ireland ?

[JAMIE6SUPERSTAR]

no ofense just wondering

[fiacharrey]

That's pretty funny. But, no, that was just some random background noise.

[JAMIE6SUPERSTAR]

at 0:26 did the guy fart

[Dreoilin]

Déithe dhuit mo cara, good lil vid!

[Bolger451]

its pronounced 'paw-gaw-nokt' not 'pay-gan-akt'

[fiacharrey]

Thanks, Bolger! Now that you say it, it seems obvious.

[blue1spiral]

interesting because I started studying irish before I ever even knew about this religion, because I care so much about the culture of mine which I most identify with.

[Kitsaplorax]

Interesting.

[Kitsaplorax]

Interesting.

[Stoirmeacha]

Ugh...I am a little disappointed in his speaking skills. He should redo it and make it easier to listen to, do his ancestors proud. Still nice to see CR growing though.

[fiacharrey]

Yeah, I probably should. I'm starting to "stick to a script" now. Funny thing is that I do public speaking all the time, and I am actually good at it. I'm a trial lawyer and it comes with the territory. Talking to a microphone is different, and I get pretty stiff.  Maybe I should just record my talking to a group about this stuff. That would probably sound a lot better. Well, I'm learning.

[Stoirmeacha]

I have the same problem, heh. I made a video and my voice was dead...my teacher made me redo it. So I had a friend sit there and I redid my speech like I was talking to her casually, because I get all worked up when I am talking to my friends about something I like. It sounded much better.

[AdrenochromeDance]

I'd say my understanding of CR is basically the same. There were only a couple minor points I may have phrased differently, and they're not coming to mind right off hand. I'll look at the video again at some point and see what they were.

[fiacharrey]

Yeah, actually, sometimes when I listen to my videos, I think, "man, that's not quite right... eh, what the hell, that's close enough." I don't generally read from a prepared script and my wording gets awkward and imprecise at times.

[fiacharrey]

Thank you. Yeah, not everyone in CR agrees with everything, I'm sure. I'd love to hear how your understanding of CR differs. It would be great to give a fuller understanding of the path here.

[AdrenochromeDance]

Not bad at all. A few things I'd disagree with, but so far it looks to better than any of the others on YouTube that only pretend to be about CR. This one uses good sources and the poster seems to know the subject matter. The site he refers to is definitely worth checking out.