I don't think the insulation would handle 30,000 volts. The casing on a neon transformer is basically just filled with stuff that's kind of like tar, and it has a lot of carbon in it. Neon transformers are pretty tough and they do put up with a lot of abuse, but 30kv is a lot and I'd be worried about corona starting to slowly etch through the insulation.
The other problem is how exactly would you connect center-tapped transformers in series?
I've had them for a LONG time. I got two of them from a neon sign shop. (They gave me one of them, and I bought another one for $40). I got the others from an electrical surplus place.
I've had them for over 10 years and they still work great.
so what would 110 with 8 amps on it do to you ? 15,000 can kick your butt but i think 110 with 8 amps would kill you in one shot. and what would 3 phase 460 volt do ? lol
I just wanted to make something so there would be a safe way to adjust the gap while the circuit is still live, so I could see how far I can draw the arc out. I use it to test my high voltage transformers.
I used to do that kind of goofy stuff "back in the day" when I first started experimenting with high voltage. These days, I try NOT to trip circuit breakers and I try to NOT make things catch fire!
Because I saw your other video where you had the candle near the Tesla coil, I wanted to ask would the same thing happen if you put the flame inbetween those two points if you didn't have the arc going
They're neon sign transformers. They're normally used to energize the tube in a neon sign. You might be able to buy a used transformer from a sign repair shop (that's where I got mine). Or look in electrical surplus shops...or on eBay. The only thing is if you're under 18, some places might not sell them to you because of the liability. I don't know how old you are, but you look really young in your videos.
...I was about 19 when I first started experimenting with high voltage, and even then some people tried to talk me out of it because they thought it was too "dangerous"....especially my friends and my parents. I knew what I was doing though.
At 15,000 volts, yes it can be lethal. Notice that contrary to popular myth, it's the VOLTAGE that kills, because voltage is the determining factor for how much current will flow through a fixed amount of resistance. The only reason why it's limited to 60ma is because the transformer is current limited to prevent overloads. If you were to touch the arc, it could give a lethal shock, or at the very least it would burn your fingers.
yes in a way you are right but it is also the amps that are what kills you i know im only 13 but i know more than you would expect and i have also been shocked by 700volt capacitors
It's actually BOTH the voltage and the current that makes it dangerous. Ohm's Law states that "Voltage divided by resistance = current." Voltage is the determining factor. You CAN'T have current without voltage, so saying that amps are what kills you doesn't make any sense. The amps depends on the resistance and the VOLTAGE. I can't point to a wire and say there "2 amps" there or whatever. It will depend on the voltage and the resistance in the circuit.
You can't point to a power supply and say there are "X Amps" present, because that will depend on the load. It depends on the voltage, and the resistance in the circuit. For example, you know that an outlet in your house supplies 120 volts, but the amps are a dependant variable. Obviously, if you plug in a toaster oven, it will draw more amps than a cell phone charger because the toaster oven has a heating element with relatively low resistance (causing more current to flow.)
...You can have something supply both high voltage AND high current, if the POWER is sufficient to begin with. A Van de Graff generator supplies very high voltage, but extremely low current, because it has very low power (Wattage) to begin with.
A neon transformer or microwave transformer, on the other hand, supplies high voltage AND high current, because they draw a lot of power to begin with. Transformers don't gain or lose power. They just convert the voltage.
...Also, think about this...a car battery can supply hundreds of amps, but if you touch the poles of a car battery, it won't do anything to you. That's because it's only 12 volts and it can't overcome the resistance of your body. But of course, if I tried to grab wires from a 120 volt outlet with both hands, that would kill me.
...You can get a corona wind with any source of high voltage, but the effect is more noticable with AC because the current is oscillating, so the electric field is continously reversing polarity.
That's very nice. Very nice. I love these things you make ;). Quick question's, Are there fumes coming of of that? and what would happen if you put paper in between it? anyway thanks for all the help you've been because of you I feel as if I am confident enough to make my own Tesla coil;)
It's just two high voltage transformers connected in parallel. I built the little wooden thing with insulated handles so that I can draw the arc out while the circuit is live. If you don't have any experience with high voltage, it can be dangerous though. This is 15,000 volts.
okay then, well technically it's 900VA apparent power. We don't know the power factor, so it may be more or less than that. However, I do know the arc represents nearly a dead short, because I can see with an ammeter that each transformer draws nearly 4 amps on the primary side with the arc. Each transformer is rated for 15kv 30ma, so that means 120v 3.75 amps on the primary side. So the arc does draw a full load. It looks about right on the ammeter.
So you answered yourself, if you short circuit the output the apparent power is 900VA but real output power is 0W because there is 0V on the output. The arc represents near-short so voltage on it is very low, so power factor is very low too.
We're kind of debating something abstract now. If there was really 0 volts, then the arc would not be able to sustain itself. There has to be a sufficient voltage to ionize and break down the air. Maybe you could argue that the voltage in the rest of circuit drops to very low, but within the arc itself it still has to remain in the kilovolt level. Of course, this only happens because the transformer is current limited and is purposely designed with bad voltage regulation.
um im trying to construct a high frequency transforer but im still confused with the scamatic ive seen previously but can you give me away to understand it,
it took me like 30-45 mins. to make a "siren" on a bread board but my elecrical teacher 'also my 8th grade math teacher' lol but i got confused because it scamatic was orginly for a circuit board.
god i can type any more lol hard to type on the wii lol
It's amazing the things one person and several power supplies can do..
Working with 110 scares the @#^$ out of me so I just can't imagine what 15,000 volts would feel like.
I work with car stereos so i deal with a large amount of amperage (20-150 amps @ 12-14.4 volts) quite a bit more than 20 milamp you are talking i missed that last time so basicly enough amps to make your heart skip a beat standard 120 (or mostly known as 110) is standardized at 20 ampers
Well, the biggest misconception some people have is that amps is the dangerous part of an electric current. That's NOT really true. Ohm's Law states that "Voltage divided by resistance = current." So for a given resistance, the voltage is actually what determines how much current will flow. Higher voltage means more current. That's why high voltage is dangerous. A 12 volt car battery won't shock you because the voltage is too low to overcome the resistance of your body.
...so yeah, even though the battery might be RATED for 150 amps, with only 12 volts, there would never be that much current flowing through your body. I could go grab jumper cables from a car right now and it wouldn't do anything to me. As long as your hands are dry, the body can have up to 10,000ohms of resistance or more. A 12 volt car battery would only cause microamps to flow in that case. But I wouldn't try it with 120volts!
With these transformers...possibly stop your heart and cause severe burns on your fingers. And they're current limited so they don't overload. You touch a 15,000 volt power line and you catch fire. High voltage is awesome, but it's no joke.
man all your stuff that you make is awsome. I made a 15kv power supply but it burned out, so now i have 2 make a new one lol. you should make more videos of your tesla coil.
a pure 60hz AC arc isn't too bad. It won't hurt your eyes. When you need to be careful is when you add capacitance, like with the spark gap on a Tesla Coil...then you shouldn't look at the arc because of the extremely hard ultraviolet light.
nice, I can do a lot of corona with my 100kV flyback at only 20 watts, the whole room smells with ozone in a minute...
To the real power, is there is no other component than the transformers itself, then maximum power you can get to the arc as 225 Watts (I know this is true, I was drawing 600W real power arcs around 2x that distance)
And if you want to argue, you can't make a 50cm very hot arc with NSTs :D
huh? I don't need a flame to start an arc here. 15,000 volts can jump easily by itself. The other video shows the corona wind, and you can actually see it making a candle flame bounce and flicker. It's also called an ion wind. You can do it with a Tesla Coil too. Actually, I'm thinking about making an ion motor.
oh, okay. Yeah, I was actually trying to make it so that there was NO arc, to show the corona wind, how it was making the candle flame flicker. That's an old video, I posted it months ago. It was just a demo, just to show corona wind. What's really weird is that if I connect the transformers to a variac and slowly turn up the voltage, at first it actually squashes the flame. It's probably from a static charge. But a corona wind shows an electric field.
Huh? Ions motors like, hall effect thruster, MPD and others need alot of power, i say, more power than any other you would consume in your life existence. Some small MPD thrusters build by NASA and other corporations all around the world need about 2 x 10^7 Amps and 7.5 x 10^4 Volts to ionize and propel inert gas ( engine fuel ) ions throught the exaust at extreamelly high speeds to create thrust.
Also it's impossible to get this power with any type of high voltage transformer, let it be neon transformer, flyback transformer, etc. Then on that case, even i would have a particle accelerator at my workshop. Holy shit.
60 miliamps is the absolute max amount of amperage a human can survive, not only is that arc awesome, it's deadly too.
drewnickel 10 months ago
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MasterPyroDiego 1 year ago
electricity is fire,its so cool!!!
paraglidermx 1 year ago
will 900 volts jump ? what voltage is it that it starts to jump ?
67tr876 1 year ago
I didn't know those signs use that high voltage!
Riskteven 1 year ago
why don't you hook them in series so you get 30kv?
ubuntupokemoninc 2 years ago
@ubuntupokemoninc
I don't think the insulation would handle 30,000 volts. The casing on a neon transformer is basically just filled with stuff that's kind of like tar, and it has a lot of carbon in it. Neon transformers are pretty tough and they do put up with a lot of abuse, but 30kv is a lot and I'd be worried about corona starting to slowly etch through the insulation.
The other problem is how exactly would you connect center-tapped transformers in series?
ct92404 2 years ago
if you touch the arc will you die?
Babis995 2 years ago
@Babis995 if you only touch it with one hand, no. but it will give a nasty shock and leave burns.
uN1Qu3DZ 2 years ago
hey, where do you find your NST's?
legomaniac150 2 years ago
I've had them for a LONG time. I got two of them from a neon sign shop. (They gave me one of them, and I bought another one for $40). I got the others from an electrical surplus place.
I've had them for over 10 years and they still work great.
ct92404 2 years ago
so what would 110 with 8 amps on it do to you ? 15,000 can kick your butt but i think 110 with 8 amps would kill you in one shot. and what would 3 phase 460 volt do ? lol
67tr876 2 years ago
110 with 8A won't kill you as easy as you think. Look up ohms law and you will see.
Ex: You soak your hands in saltwater and grab a Hot and a Neutral wire with each hand (lets just say the amps of the supply are infinite.
bossoholic 2 years ago
...Well lets say your internal body resistance is 1,000 ohms.
Current= Voltage/resistance. 110/1,000= 110mA through your body.
Thats almost 2x as deadly as a 15,000v 60mA tranny (60mA max regardless of the voltage)
bossoholic 2 years ago
The 460v system- you won't be able to let go and it will fry you until the power is cut off.
Only 230v can kill with ease- even with dry hands. My friends dad got killed with 230.
bossoholic 2 years ago
o am sorry to hear :(
67tr876 2 years ago
how would i pulse this circuit using a air gap thanks
copleygsxr 2 years ago
ingenious sliding mechanism!
dannybeckett01 2 years ago
hehehe...thanks :)
I just wanted to make something so there would be a safe way to adjust the gap while the circuit is still live, so I could see how far I can draw the arc out. I use it to test my high voltage transformers.
ct92404 2 years ago
plz make another video and burn some paper between those arcs!
zker666 2 years ago
heh...okay, maybe. The arc is as hot as a flame and it will burn pretty much anything.
ct92404 2 years ago
I used to do that kind of goofy stuff "back in the day" when I first started experimenting with high voltage. These days, I try NOT to trip circuit breakers and I try to NOT make things catch fire!
ct92404 2 years ago
is this enough to kill a grown man ?
omaaar2008 2 years ago
yup...very easily. You don't want to get shocked by this.
ct92404 2 years ago
It only takes 50mA to kill a man
bossoholic 2 years ago
wow you can see the thickness of the arc double due to double the current
juniortore 2 years ago
Because I saw your other video where you had the candle near the Tesla coil, I wanted to ask would the same thing happen if you put the flame inbetween those two points if you didn't have the arc going
Nevic5 2 years ago
where can i buy transformers like that?
killdoser666 2 years ago
They're neon sign transformers. They're normally used to energize the tube in a neon sign. You might be able to buy a used transformer from a sign repair shop (that's where I got mine). Or look in electrical surplus shops...or on eBay. The only thing is if you're under 18, some places might not sell them to you because of the liability. I don't know how old you are, but you look really young in your videos.
ct92404 2 years ago
...I was about 19 when I first started experimenting with high voltage, and even then some people tried to talk me out of it because they thought it was too "dangerous"....especially my friends and my parents. I knew what I was doing though.
ct92404 2 years ago
thanks :-)
killdoser666 2 years ago
eBay!
dbuschhorn 2 years ago
So what would happen if you touched the arc? Is 60mA enough to kill? Is that corona wind only generated with AC?
Jiraya12345 3 years ago
At 15,000 volts, yes it can be lethal. Notice that contrary to popular myth, it's the VOLTAGE that kills, because voltage is the determining factor for how much current will flow through a fixed amount of resistance. The only reason why it's limited to 60ma is because the transformer is current limited to prevent overloads. If you were to touch the arc, it could give a lethal shock, or at the very least it would burn your fingers.
ct92404 3 years ago
yes in a way you are right but it is also the amps that are what kills you i know im only 13 but i know more than you would expect and i have also been shocked by 700volt capacitors
rubikscubesolver17 2 years ago
It's actually BOTH the voltage and the current that makes it dangerous. Ohm's Law states that "Voltage divided by resistance = current." Voltage is the determining factor. You CAN'T have current without voltage, so saying that amps are what kills you doesn't make any sense. The amps depends on the resistance and the VOLTAGE. I can't point to a wire and say there "2 amps" there or whatever. It will depend on the voltage and the resistance in the circuit.
ct92404 2 years ago
At work, we use rectifiers to anodize aluminum. They make over 2500 amps at 16 volts.
The battery in your car makes over 100 amps but only at 12.xx volts. Amps kill. Volts cut.
Volts make arcs jump but without amps, you just end up with static.
dbuschhorn 2 years ago
You can't point to a power supply and say there are "X Amps" present, because that will depend on the load. It depends on the voltage, and the resistance in the circuit. For example, you know that an outlet in your house supplies 120 volts, but the amps are a dependant variable. Obviously, if you plug in a toaster oven, it will draw more amps than a cell phone charger because the toaster oven has a heating element with relatively low resistance (causing more current to flow.)
ct92404 2 years ago
...You can have something supply both high voltage AND high current, if the POWER is sufficient to begin with. A Van de Graff generator supplies very high voltage, but extremely low current, because it has very low power (Wattage) to begin with.
A neon transformer or microwave transformer, on the other hand, supplies high voltage AND high current, because they draw a lot of power to begin with. Transformers don't gain or lose power. They just convert the voltage.
ct92404 2 years ago
...Also, think about this...a car battery can supply hundreds of amps, but if you touch the poles of a car battery, it won't do anything to you. That's because it's only 12 volts and it can't overcome the resistance of your body. But of course, if I tried to grab wires from a 120 volt outlet with both hands, that would kill me.
ct92404 2 years ago
...You can get a corona wind with any source of high voltage, but the effect is more noticable with AC because the current is oscillating, so the electric field is continously reversing polarity.
ct92404 3 years ago
That's very nice. Very nice. I love these things you make ;). Quick question's, Are there fumes coming of of that? and what would happen if you put paper in between it? anyway thanks for all the help you've been because of you I feel as if I am confident enough to make my own Tesla coil;)
Nanovirus5995 3 years ago
i dare u to touch the arc
xatblasterx 3 years ago
can u show how to build this?
OQS1 3 years ago
It's just two high voltage transformers connected in parallel. I built the little wooden thing with insulated handles so that I can draw the arc out while the circuit is live. If you don't have any experience with high voltage, it can be dangerous though. This is 15,000 volts.
ct92404 3 years ago
"about 900 Watts" Not really, it is about 200 watts (ideally 225W but the arc usually goes out before the maximum power point)
jmartis2 3 years ago
okay then, well technically it's 900VA apparent power. We don't know the power factor, so it may be more or less than that. However, I do know the arc represents nearly a dead short, because I can see with an ammeter that each transformer draws nearly 4 amps on the primary side with the arc. Each transformer is rated for 15kv 30ma, so that means 120v 3.75 amps on the primary side. So the arc does draw a full load. It looks about right on the ammeter.
ct92404 3 years ago
So you answered yourself, if you short circuit the output the apparent power is 900VA but real output power is 0W because there is 0V on the output. The arc represents near-short so voltage on it is very low, so power factor is very low too.
jmartis2 3 years ago
We're kind of debating something abstract now. If there was really 0 volts, then the arc would not be able to sustain itself. There has to be a sufficient voltage to ionize and break down the air. Maybe you could argue that the voltage in the rest of circuit drops to very low, but within the arc itself it still has to remain in the kilovolt level. Of course, this only happens because the transformer is current limited and is purposely designed with bad voltage regulation.
ct92404 3 years ago
Sorry I dont want to argue. I just meant it is 0V with the output shorted together. Of course there is some voltage if arc is present.
jmartis2 3 years ago
lol...no, that's okay. We're just having a discussion.
ct92404 3 years ago
hi nice video btw,
um im trying to construct a high frequency transforer but im still confused with the scamatic ive seen previously but can you give me away to understand it,
it took me like 30-45 mins. to make a "siren" on a bread board but my elecrical teacher 'also my 8th grade math teacher' lol but i got confused because it scamatic was orginly for a circuit board.
god i can type any more lol hard to type on the wii lol
can you help me?
thx
battlefeildrecruit 3 years ago
It's amazing the things one person and several power supplies can do..
Working with 110 scares the @#^$ out of me so I just can't imagine what 15,000 volts would feel like.
I work with car stereos so i deal with a large amount of amperage (20-150 amps @ 12-14.4 volts) quite a bit more than 20 milamp you are talking i missed that last time so basicly enough amps to make your heart skip a beat standard 120 (or mostly known as 110) is standardized at 20 ampers
jgilk1 3 years ago
Well, the biggest misconception some people have is that amps is the dangerous part of an electric current. That's NOT really true. Ohm's Law states that "Voltage divided by resistance = current." So for a given resistance, the voltage is actually what determines how much current will flow. Higher voltage means more current. That's why high voltage is dangerous. A 12 volt car battery won't shock you because the voltage is too low to overcome the resistance of your body.
ct92404 3 years ago
...so yeah, even though the battery might be RATED for 150 amps, with only 12 volts, there would never be that much current flowing through your body. I could go grab jumper cables from a car right now and it wouldn't do anything to me. As long as your hands are dry, the body can have up to 10,000ohms of resistance or more. A 12 volt car battery would only cause microamps to flow in that case. But I wouldn't try it with 120volts!
ct92404 3 years ago
If 110 grabs you and 220 kicks your @#$ what does 15,000 volts do?
jgilk1 3 years ago
With these transformers...possibly stop your heart and cause severe burns on your fingers. And they're current limited so they don't overload. You touch a 15,000 volt power line and you catch fire. High voltage is awesome, but it's no joke.
ct92404 3 years ago
man all your stuff that you make is awsome. I made a 15kv power supply but it burned out, so now i have 2 make a new one lol. you should make more videos of your tesla coil.
TCDIL95 3 years ago
is it a good habit to not look at the arc?
BasementBen 3 years ago
a pure 60hz AC arc isn't too bad. It won't hurt your eyes. When you need to be careful is when you add capacitance, like with the spark gap on a Tesla Coil...then you shouldn't look at the arc because of the extremely hard ultraviolet light.
ct92404 3 years ago
Thank you.
BasementBen 3 years ago
nice, I can do a lot of corona with my 100kV flyback at only 20 watts, the whole room smells with ozone in a minute...
To the real power, is there is no other component than the transformers itself, then maximum power you can get to the arc as 225 Watts (I know this is true, I was drawing 600W real power arcs around 2x that distance)
And if you want to argue, you can't make a 50cm very hot arc with NSTs :D
jmartis2 4 years ago
my mots will create corona!
codemsan 4 years ago
maybe, but not much with only 2,000 volts! Did you see the video I have showing the corona wind from the neon transformers? It blows out a candle!
ct92404 4 years ago
not to burst your buble but oookkay...not that special but cool nonetheless cause the flame gives it ane extra surface to start the arc with
codemsan 4 years ago
huh? I don't need a flame to start an arc here. 15,000 volts can jump easily by itself. The other video shows the corona wind, and you can actually see it making a candle flame bounce and flicker. It's also called an ion wind. You can do it with a Tesla Coil too. Actually, I'm thinking about making an ion motor.
ct92404 4 years ago
no no no im saying in that video with the candle, the flame acts as more conductor to let the arc start
codemsan 4 years ago
oh, okay. Yeah, I was actually trying to make it so that there was NO arc, to show the corona wind, how it was making the candle flame flicker. That's an old video, I posted it months ago. It was just a demo, just to show corona wind. What's really weird is that if I connect the transformers to a variac and slowly turn up the voltage, at first it actually squashes the flame. It's probably from a static charge. But a corona wind shows an electric field.
ct92404 4 years ago
yeah i know why you did it and it was a very good demonstration!
codemsan 4 years ago
Huh? Ions motors like, hall effect thruster, MPD and others need alot of power, i say, more power than any other you would consume in your life existence. Some small MPD thrusters build by NASA and other corporations all around the world need about 2 x 10^7 Amps and 7.5 x 10^4 Volts to ionize and propel inert gas ( engine fuel ) ions throught the exaust at extreamelly high speeds to create thrust.
SKarmytech 3 years ago
Also it's impossible to get this power with any type of high voltage transformer, let it be neon transformer, flyback transformer, etc. Then on that case, even i would have a particle accelerator at my workshop. Holy shit.
SKarmytech 3 years ago