I watched your video because I saw your comment on PhilHellenes video, which I too found to be very powerful, and I just wanted to compliment you on a very nice first video. Calm and thoughtful commentary is always nice to see, and I agree with your outlook.
It's downright scary to see fundamentalists gather and talk about how they just can't wait for the conflict to end all conflicts to unfold and for Jesus to ascend to Israel or whatever insane apocalyptic views they've latched on to.
Yes, it is scary. And my fears aren't ameliorated by the many non-religious people (like Fakesagan) who can't seem to see the mushroom clouds on the horizon.
I think your generalization dangerous nature of Christian's beliefs re: armageddon, the temporality of this world, etc. do describe a majority of Christians, but there are others who reject this particular interprettation of the end time events. I doubt you're interested, but NT Wright's book 'Surprised by Hope' deals with this issue and how most Christians misunderstanding of the end times result in the unhealthy attitude you're describing.
What I don't understand is why armageddon should be so terrifying to you as an atheist? After all, life is only temporary, and even without nuclear war, the planet will only be capable of sustaining life for a finite amount of time. I can see wanting to stave off your own demise as long as possible, but what difference is it to you if human existence ends 1 year after you die, or 100,000 years?
It wouldn't matter in the least, if I were completely self-absorbed, as your question seems to assume. But why would you make that assumption? Why wouldn't I care about the people I leave behind?
Not 'why do you care', but what difference does it make, ultimately. Why is death via natural causes > nuclear armageddon? Furthermore, why is so-called 'life' preferable to death at all (and be sure to provide a proof for your answer)? Might seem to be a silly question, but when your ideology is rooted in the idea that you only believe in the material world, and that which can be empirically proven, then do you not need to apply that standard to your beliefs?
That is to say: what empirical data is there that suggests life is greater than death? If as a materialist, or naturalist, you believe only in the natural world, then how can you say that death (via nuclear armageddon, murder, or natural causes) is even a negative thing objectively? For, on the most basic physical level, death affects nothing The atomic structure of a live body is the same as that of a dead body. Nothing is physically lost... and the physical is all. So...
I'm most assuredly not a materialist, or even a naturalist. Many atheists are, no doubt, but as I said in my "The Hell You Say" vid, "I see enough strange things in the universe to give me *some* sympathy for people who say there must be some-kind-of-somthing that we *might* call God." What I object to is infinitely multi-tasking best selling authors, not deism.
Fair enough, however in defending secular humanism, you associate yourself with these doctrines, as secular humanism proclaims to follow most of the principles of naturalism (with some others added). Which is essentially my argument; that secular humanism is internally contradictory.
When you ask why life is preferable to death, whose life are you talking about, and preferable to whom? Are you asking, for example, why my brother should prefer me to be alive rather than dead? If you are asking about my life vs my death and my preference, then again I ask, are we assuming here that I don't care about the people who care about me, who would be rather upset if my life ended?
I've not seen many "first vids" as impressive as this.
I hope Fakey takes it as it has been delivered, calmly and thoughtfully. He seems to have taken any and all criticism of his secular humanist series on the chin. I see no reason why he should be any different with you.
If you see this comment Fakey, if you think I'm encouraging Leaf, on THIS occasion you are entirely correct. I'm encouraging him to make more videos, that's all.
It's like Sam Harris said: "a billion Muslims and a million bombs ..."
I don't understand why more atheists aren't concerned about the apocolyptic worldview of Christians and Muslims. Prophecies have a tendency to become self-fulfilling, after all.
Of course, there are all sorts of other problems with religion, and I wish I'd alluded to these in my vid, but nuclear armageddon definitely tops the list. We need atheists to acknowledge this, and then we can work on the religious moderates.
Great points.
stratocaster539 1 year ago
I will.
Also, it is encouraging to see the protests in Iran. I think change is coming to the Middle East. I'm not making any prophecies--but I can hope.
kingthamus 2 years ago
I watched your video because I saw your comment on PhilHellenes video, which I too found to be very powerful, and I just wanted to compliment you on a very nice first video. Calm and thoughtful commentary is always nice to see, and I agree with your outlook.
It's downright scary to see fundamentalists gather and talk about how they just can't wait for the conflict to end all conflicts to unfold and for Jesus to ascend to Israel or whatever insane apocalyptic views they've latched on to.
Doctrinius 2 years ago
Thanks for the kind words, Doctrinius.
Yes, it is scary. And my fears aren't ameliorated by the many non-religious people (like Fakesagan) who can't seem to see the mushroom clouds on the horizon.
LeafInTheStream 2 years ago
BORING! and WTF is that shit on your nose???? your zit is bigger than URANIS!
carlswitzerfan 2 years ago
Having just watched your "Obama Mask" video, all I can say is this: "glass houses!"
LeafInTheStream 2 years ago
I think your generalization dangerous nature of Christian's beliefs re: armageddon, the temporality of this world, etc. do describe a majority of Christians, but there are others who reject this particular interprettation of the end time events. I doubt you're interested, but NT Wright's book 'Surprised by Hope' deals with this issue and how most Christians misunderstanding of the end times result in the unhealthy attitude you're describing.
TheIllegit 2 years ago
What I don't understand is why armageddon should be so terrifying to you as an atheist? After all, life is only temporary, and even without nuclear war, the planet will only be capable of sustaining life for a finite amount of time. I can see wanting to stave off your own demise as long as possible, but what difference is it to you if human existence ends 1 year after you die, or 100,000 years?
TheIllegit 2 years ago
It wouldn't matter in the least, if I were completely self-absorbed, as your question seems to assume. But why would you make that assumption? Why wouldn't I care about the people I leave behind?
LeafInTheStream 2 years ago
Not 'why do you care', but what difference does it make, ultimately. Why is death via natural causes > nuclear armageddon? Furthermore, why is so-called 'life' preferable to death at all (and be sure to provide a proof for your answer)? Might seem to be a silly question, but when your ideology is rooted in the idea that you only believe in the material world, and that which can be empirically proven, then do you not need to apply that standard to your beliefs?
TheIllegit 2 years ago
That is to say: what empirical data is there that suggests life is greater than death? If as a materialist, or naturalist, you believe only in the natural world, then how can you say that death (via nuclear armageddon, murder, or natural causes) is even a negative thing objectively? For, on the most basic physical level, death affects nothing The atomic structure of a live body is the same as that of a dead body. Nothing is physically lost... and the physical is all. So...
TheIllegit 2 years ago
I'm most assuredly not a materialist, or even a naturalist. Many atheists are, no doubt, but as I said in my "The Hell You Say" vid, "I see enough strange things in the universe to give me *some* sympathy for people who say there must be some-kind-of-somthing that we *might* call God." What I object to is infinitely multi-tasking best selling authors, not deism.
LeafInTheStream 2 years ago
Fair enough, however in defending secular humanism, you associate yourself with these doctrines, as secular humanism proclaims to follow most of the principles of naturalism (with some others added). Which is essentially my argument; that secular humanism is internally contradictory.
TheIllegit 2 years ago
The claim of Fakesagan's that I was questioning here was that secular humanism is dangerous and a cult.
My philosophical objections to (aspects of) secular humanism seem to me to be too academic to warrant any alarm or hostility on my part.
Plus, it *is* difficult to address *everything* in 10 minutes. I could have made a 25 minute reply to Fakesagan, easily.
LeafInTheStream 2 years ago
When you ask why life is preferable to death, whose life are you talking about, and preferable to whom? Are you asking, for example, why my brother should prefer me to be alive rather than dead? If you are asking about my life vs my death and my preference, then again I ask, are we assuming here that I don't care about the people who care about me, who would be rather upset if my life ended?
LeafInTheStream 2 years ago
lol @ 2:26 - 2:52
Religion99 2 years ago
Yes, well, I find it's impossible to talk about such things without humour entering into it. :)
LeafInTheStream 2 years ago
Comment removed
MUYBIEN1 2 years ago
Wow great video! Especially for a first video. 5 Stars!
spiggity 3 years ago
I've not seen many "first vids" as impressive as this.
I hope Fakey takes it as it has been delivered, calmly and thoughtfully. He seems to have taken any and all criticism of his secular humanist series on the chin. I see no reason why he should be any different with you.
If you see this comment Fakey, if you think I'm encouraging Leaf, on THIS occasion you are entirely correct. I'm encouraging him to make more videos, that's all.
philhellenes 3 years ago 4
Encouragement (and inspiration, for I'm not ashamed to say that you are my favourite YouTube atheist) taken!
LeafInTheStream 3 years ago
It's like Sam Harris said: "a billion Muslims and a million bombs ..."
I don't understand why more atheists aren't concerned about the apocolyptic worldview of Christians and Muslims. Prophecies have a tendency to become self-fulfilling, after all.
Of course, there are all sorts of other problems with religion, and I wish I'd alluded to these in my vid, but nuclear armageddon definitely tops the list. We need atheists to acknowledge this, and then we can work on the religious moderates.
LeafInTheStream 3 years ago
bravo mr leaf. bravo. in the nuclear era, we can't tolerate apocalyptic belief systems.
windham666 3 years ago 3