What I think is crazy is that if there were more black or hispanic folk who passed the test in comparison to caucasians... would this still have been an issue? ESPECIALLY should the chief be, say, hispanic.?
My guess is: no one would have challenged it out of fear of political correctness.
the young turks is the organization which orchestred the armenian genocide, even though there were genocide on both side. the turks implemented the deliberate cultural destruction of the armenians. i wonder why they took this name i guess it is because it is a name which signify rebellion. the young turks were named that way because many member in government were very young.
Discrimination is just wrong on all counts. Slavery was wrong, but so is Affirmative Action....its just that simple. Two wrongs do not make a right, even a SIMPLE mind like Obama should realize that.
The young turks are really racist! Do you know that the Turks did towards christian Greeks, Assyrians and Armenians between 1914-1920? Do you know what the Turks do to the Kurds?
This reminds me of the sexism argument. Some feminists I've heard complain how there's sexism in politics because there's not many females in the career. I'm a male nurse, and there's not many of us (about 12%). I've never met sexism, but by stats, I must have.
If you look at the numbers of people that passed the test from each ethnic group, there is no way to show disparate impact. The ratio of people who passed from each ethnic group would have to be overwhelmingly lopsided for it to show disparate impact. Intent to discriminate would be despicable, but we need to move beyond just focusing on the results or we will find ourselves rigging tests in order to get the results we want. You can't start with results and work backward.
you people are idiots. if you think that firefighters dont want the best guy they can next to them you might as well learn how to baaaahhh. You liberal sheep are ridiculous, every time blacks or mexicans don't get a promotion they probably weren't the best person for the job. I'm not saying there's not discrimination, I'm black.... But to have the supreme court of the united states making judgements on a county firestation exam? Thats whats troubling here, we now have a tyrannical government
Tirmen8er, I agree with everything you said except the Liberal bashing. Firstly, Cenk agreed with the supreme court (the "republican" belief), and he's a liberal. Secondly, Sotomayor applied the letter of the law, which is what this whole video was about.
Withhold opinion here - do we suspect that the test has a cultural basis. In the meantime How could anyone every prove the intent to discriminate??? Racist are a bit more sophisticated now.
It 's ignorance, not racism when you have a pathetic minority culture, with a peasant minded mentality, who feed off of failure and apathy like a drug, following their elders. Why are so many Americans fat? Because it's easy to be. And it's easy to be a loser when your black or brown. But why do they expect the easy way out or lowered standards hand out?. Because the minority culture in America is weak. And weak people always let you down.
This would be like a school teacher giving out a test that included information that was previously covered and required studying up on. Then, after the test results rendered a performance slope with a higher amount of white kids with passing grades than kids of other races, the teacher negated the test scores and gave out a new one that would be easier for the kids of other races to pass.
I agree, people should not be denied promotions because people of other races did not study and do good on the test. This is a clear cut case of discrimination, people should be promoted due to their skill and work habits and not be denied promotions because of other races not doing good on the same test.
This reasoning that Rachel Maddow and her little puppets on her show are using, is absolutely bullshit. They are talking about minimums. That might work to "hire" someone, but it is a completely different story when you are trying to set people apart for a promotion. That line of thinking is how we are going to put this country in the shitter. Study harder...period.
First Ricci sues to get his foot in the door.Then these white conservative firefighters sue because the city wants a more diverse fire department that reflects its population.Any city in anywhere USA has the right to equal employment for all.If the Supreme Court does not recognise all the facts this opens the door for companies that do not hire minorities to keep on discriminating. Is this Court blind to the fact that whites unemployment rate is 9% and for hispanics about 13% and blacks 15%?
So white firefighters should be denied promotion simply because of their race?
And those percentages arent caused by discrimination, theyre caused by a difference in cultures. The Asian unemployment is lower than the white one I'm sure.
So you are saying to hiring people based on race and not the most qualified? I'm a hispanic, and I do have to say the racist one is you. If I got picked for something because I was hispanic I would find it RACIST.
I also like to comment on this "Is this Court blind to the fact that whites unemployment rate is 9% and for hispanics about 13% and blacks 15%?" So you want the court to give people benefits over others because of their race?! I think justice should be "blind" to race, and I hope the courts get past RACIAL BIAS. Because you apparently have not gotten over it.
Who are the real idiots here: The people who gave the test, or the people who took them? Simple.
More finger pointing, and no good solution in the end. While the question still abounds, Who is the greatest candidate?
You could call it a mis-management alltogether of sorts eh?
But hey, maybe youve got a real great person in mind! And whatever lead you to that, a test, or a miracle, I would hope its the right choice for all of us, and not just for you.
The best candidate should be the one selected. My only problem with these tests is that the results are kept secret. If nobody gets to see the actual test results of each candidate, how is it clear who scored best?
It looks a little like the Iran Elections. You have to take the word of the Ayatollah, who assures you nothing was rigged. I'm from Missouri, you gotta show me!
If your house is on fire I'm sure you don't give a crap what the person's skin color is. You just want the best fire fighters. It doesn't matter if they're all black, all white or some mixture of races. In America all positions should go to the best. Period.
I myself am completely surprised that sotomayor is even being judged, she herself is quite racist, and she makes her decsions based upon "experiance" and her "heritage". That is a load of $hit. I myself am not racist, i have several multi-racial friends. If the Black firefighters scored higher on the test, power to them, tossed the white out, they would deserve it. Why the court doesn't observe the fact that sotomayor ignors rules, and "goes with HER GUT FEELING" i will never know.
After listening to the video, I am glad that you agree that it is wrong to judge a test by the final tests results based on the color of the individuals who took the test.
I have taken similar tests and these test are designed to test the skills of police officers and firefighters. When it comes to our public saftey color does not matter. We want the best officer or fire fighter whether they are white, black, yellow or red.. does not matter...PICK THE BEST
I like where this fellow is going with his argument.
It certainly seems time to move beyond results-based determinations. To lay a heavy hand on people's success merely to fill some quota is gerrymandering at its worst.
Why are these firefighters at the Sotomayor hearings? Who is paying there wages? Is New Haven footing the bill or should they bill Jeff Sessions and the Repulicans.This is for Frank who has Dyslexia.TEG YB OT KROW DNA POTS GNISU XAT SREYAP OT TEG A NOITOMORP,YZAL SSA!!!
Far from the test merely 'not being rigged', great effort by numerous testing professionals to avoid discrimination in the design of the test was described in the original case. This was by any available measure a valid test for the job position in question, and that was an established fact in the original case. This is why the original ruling--and Sotomayor's casual affirmation of it--was so egregious.
This guy has misstated the structure of the case.
Disparate impact was not removed as a consideration (it's still in the law)! New Haven's error was to take a job action that ITSELF had a disparate impact (denying qualified whites a promotion because they were white) while failing to point to a viable alternative means of establishing job qualification. Disparate impact FOR NO GOOD REASON is the key test that applies to all Title VII cases.
I would like someone to give an example of a "racist" question from the test! I think Sotomayor did rule correctly at the time since she was following establised case law until the Supreme Court changed.
Sotomayor looks unhealthy, maybe she is a good choice won't last long. She is no better possibly worse then the dirt bag we call a supreme judge she will be replacing.
At this state in the game affirmative action has no place. Tests regarding fire fighting are not culturally biased, this is not a test of cultural knowledge. You either know what the procedures to fight fires are or you don't, regardless of skin color.
This topic always seems to bring out the worse in people and cause a racial divide.
However I think this issue must be looked at from a historical standpoint. the inequalities of the past built along color lines have never been corrected so why would you not expect the results of such a test to be skewed. The supreme court rulings of the last 3 decades have slowly removed affirmative action. This case marks an issue that this country has never been fully able to redress and correct: race.
The Supreme Court has removed affirmative action because it's wrong. We should not be concerned with equality of outcome but equality of opportunity. Changing opportunity, once rights are equal, in no way involves the law. The thing that confuses me about the qhole situation is this: When you study for a fireman's exam you get a study book and read it. Now, what kind of question would a caucasian or a hispanic be able to answer that an african-american couldn't? None. Case closed.
Why are promotions to the positions of captain and lieutenant primarily on a written exam?
Ricci took extraordinary steps to ace the test—six months off work to prepare and $1,000 on tutoring. If I were a firefighter I would not want my captain to be someone that just did well on a test I would want him to have earned it by the things he did on the job and by doing the best job. This case is deeper then they are advertising on the news..
While he is taking 6 months off to study (paying for a tutor) and live it up at home these other firefighters are actually doing the job they are paid to do.. It is not an easy case and Sotomayor (and others on the panel) ruled in favor of the state.
The point is that a worker that sues you for racial discrimination no longer wants anything to do with you and will only be happy with your castration; mostly financial, but castrastion nonetheless.
Like some plaintiff might, "THEY WANT YOOR'ASS, MEN!"
Most people who become cops or firefighters graduate from public schools. Since this happened in the Northeast, you can throw in Catholic schools becuase those schools DO NOT encourage flexing your intellectual muscle either. Both types of schools, public and Catholic, lead to serious fear of testing.
NO matter how you cut it, Affirmative Action is just wrong. Giving preferences to anyone is WRONG. making up for the wrongs of the past is just WRONG. racail quotas are just WRONG. Sottomayor was just WRONG. THe Obama Regume is JUST wrong for nominating this raciat woman. sottomayor's nomination is just WRONG. The City of New Haven was just WRONG in denying advancement to these overachieving firefighters. AFFIRMATIVE ACTION AND RACIAL QUOTAS ARE just wrong.
Affirmative ACTION is the law for governments only. Would you like to be taxed by a government that would never hire you?
Companies and other entities that whine about Affirmative Action are no more than a pack of hipocrites. They get caught discriminating, the court hands them the bill, so they choose to ape an affirmative action. It would have been cheaper to do the right thing from day one.
If you are a private entity and you are using the right criteria--qualifications and skill-- you have nothing to worry about. If you lose a discrimination lawsuit, your lawyer just ripped you off.
wHAT IF YOU'RE AN INDIVIDUAL WHO IS WHITE AND WAS DISCRIMINATED AGAINST BECAUSE OF AFFIRMATIVE ACTION AND RACIAL QUOTAS...THE EEOC DOES NOTHING IF YOU'RE A WHITE MALE. I KNOW, BECAUSE IVE MADE COMPLAINTS ABOUT REVERSE DISCRIMINATION, AND THEY'VE DONE NOTHING. THEY ONLY LISTEN IF YOU'RE A MINORITY. THATS NOT EQUAL OPPROTUNITY.
That means that YOUR EMPLOYER was discriminating against minority and is already in the sock.
The Affirmative Action route is cheaper than just paying the fine and just fucking himself. So he FUCKS YOU.
Oh, and by the way, he's not going to tell you that the EEOC has rod up his ass. It's a civil arbitration agency, not a court. They can land him his throat in the hand of the Department of Justice, the place WHERE IT REALLY MATTERS because, well, someone is going to jail for civil.....
Yes, businesses should HIRE the Best QUALIFIED, NOT ON THE BASIS OF RACE OR GENDER. THE GOVERNMENT FORCES THEM TO HIRE THE LEAST QUALIFIED BASED ON RACE AND GENDER. DOING THE RIGHT THING IS HIRING THE BEST QUALIFIED WITHOUT ANY PREFERENCES, OR RACIAL QUOTAS.
You miss my point. The government CANNOT force you to hire in any way---it can only find a PATTERN OF DISCRIMINATION in the way you hire after someone SUES YOU for racial discrimination.
WHOSE IDEA IS IT to hire that way? THEIR FUCKING LAWYERS, THAT'S WHO? Haven't you seen a video here in YouTube where this law firm actually had the balls to film itself giving advice on HOW NOT TO HIRE AMERICAN CITIZENS. The idea was to BS the federal government into believeing THAT THEY NEEDED H1B workers
It's not difficult to find A BAD GUY in most companies. You walk into a corporation. It has two divisions. In one, the workforce is either diversified or 100% people of color. In the other division, everyone is white. You are discrimination lawyer. Next step--START CARVING THAT RACIST TURKEY FOR YOUR CLIENT in a lawsuit over either promotions (can't get in the "white" division); pay (the "white" division workers have higher pay); and so on. The fact is that most employers are fuckups.
You guys forget that the only the only thing you need to become a firefighter is a high school diploma. The damage inflicted upon you by a public school education goes on forever, and the outcome of this test is proof of that.
I'm not sure I buy the notion that whites test better on multiple choice questions. If that was the case, wouldn't others be well served by just reading the question, write down what they think is the correct answer on a sheet of scratch paper or something, and then look for their answer among the 4 choices? And, are there any statistics comparing how different races compare on other types of questions, such as essay questions or fill in the blank questions?
4:52 - Cenk, this is bigger than any test, bigger thatn Sotomayor! The Supreme Court used this minor issue as an excuse for:
The wholesale replacement of the civil, in-company process of racial discrimination resolution, with a court-mandated process, where an employer's FAIR burden of providing a discrimination-free workplace, is transfered to the employee, as a new, UNFAIR hardship of "proof through payment" of unaffordable legal fees for each challenge to his/her own discrimination!
If a black man fails a test it's the fault of the test, the community, the system, the country, the weather, history, geography; but never, never the man.
In direct answer to your question, I don't know who is slower or more naturally inept. It's pretty obvious that the black community doesn't emphasize education nearly as much as other groups of people. There's a consequence to always blaming somebody else, it precludes any self evaluation, which precludes improvement.
But in a smaller sample, particularly one in which minority candidates come from largely the same neighborhood, one might see racial disparities based on upbringing and educational history. It's not fair to scrap test results based SOLEY on "non-PC" results, unless those results are so one-sided as to be transparently biased.
The tough question is where does "questionable" turn into "obviously biased".
From my limited reading, the Ricci ruling (5-4 remember) sets the bar too high.
In this case it appears that there was *probably* some kind of nepotism going on. Not via the test content itself, but in the way applicants for promotion were prepared. In that respect Sotomayor is vindicated.
However, the larger question about whether lopsided results are inherently discriminatory is trickier. Clearly, given hundreds of minority applicants and very few minorities passing strongly indicates funny business.
Really erazdadazz? So, the incredibly high drop out rate from high school of minority groups is also the result of "funny business" ( read, somebody else's fault )
It is apparent that Sotomayor is a RACIST! Is the Obama Administration saying that RACISM is OK? It certainly seems the Obama Administration is advocating RACISM.
For fun let's reverse the numbers. Would if 17 Latinos and 2 white people passed. What do you think the reaction would be? Definitely the test would be scrapped as invalid.
I understand Young Turk the validity of questioning the content of tests being discriminatory. but the problem with the whole discrimination argument is that it does not give enough examination to the effects of oppression on a people and the generations that follow. Broad sweeping stmts that we're all = is infuriatin
okaasan Bullshit proposition;we all know who has the interest groups with the lawyers; working classwhites became invisible in these arguments a longtime ago; if you want to test your proposition,just offer all groups the great idea of taking the race question off the box;lI guarantee ,the White applicants wouldn't fight that.
It's time for the great Racial Spoils system to end;you fix the inner city schols to allow minorities to compete;you dont rig tests and fuck over working class white males.f
The Eldritchmask :I don't see the Left balance;When Ruth Ginsburg said "These firefighters had no vested right to a promotion",I didn't see "balance";I saw raw ,elitist,Liberal arrogance.
You have to take into account the delayed effects of demographics on institutions.
Those white firefighters very likely had the expertise, and the others didn't simply because they had been there longer. That's a natural effect, both entirely legitimate and in no way representing intentional or even unintentional discrimination.
This is the gaping injustice in affirmative action/discrimination law.
It would be stupid to make Sodomayor a Supreme Court Justice when the Supreme Court just over-turned her racist decision on a major discrimination case. This combined with her racist remarks, clearly show that shes racist.
Kinda funny. If enough minorities don't pass a test, then something is wrong with the test.
I need to correct the speaker in the video. Disparate impact WAS the initial judicial acticism to create the notion of disparate impact. The Supreme Court corrected the error.
Great commentary Cenk, I think you really captured the essence of what should happen and acknowledge the difficulty it places on the victim of genuine racism the burden of proving their case. The decision was just but far from perfect.
First let me say I'm a firefighter, and I'm white.
There's a lot of competition to become a firefighter. Unqualified people aren't going to make it, even if they're minorities, just because they're minorities.
The white boy club makes sure those they want in, get in, and those they want out, stay out. It has nothing to do with being qualified. Frequently less qualified white guys get good old boyed in.
Don't get me wrong, there are better and worse departments. If you're determined enough you'll make it through, if not at one department, then another.
But this idea people have where if you're a woman or minority you can get hired anyway even if you're not qualified? I haven't seen that happen in police, fire or EMS, at all. Step 1, you have to be qualified. Unless of course you get white boyed in.
Tanfeliz :You are telling me that entry level minorities that score well enough on the exam ,have the same veteran points,same criminal record background results,are being kept off the firefighter department because of their race?;I'm sorry;I just don't believe you.
Again, I can tell by the way you ask the question you have no fire service experience, because the context is wrong.
What happens is this: if they want you on the department, they make sure you pass the test.
In my fire academy when we took haz mat, which is a really hard class, the teacher took the test and read it word for word to us, gave us the multiple choice answers and had us pick as a class, then explained why the right answer was right.
After reading us the test word for word, he said, "OK, well you're not supposed to use your books during this test, but I'm going to be out in the bay while you take it. I would never tell anybody to cheat, but I won't know if you did."
So if there are some people they want to pass and some people they don't want to pass, the above information is given in private to the selected ones. Presto magico, higher test scores!
I've heard of people - WHOOPSIE! - forgetting to run a background check on someone they wanted on the department.
As I said above, if you're a woman or minority and happen to be indomitable and pass on your own merits, there are other methods. Remember the fire service is a tribe. Think ostracism.
On volunteer fire departments the membership votes whether to let new applicants in or not. That's legal. It's a volunteer department.
Non public safety people don't get this; if you want to apply at one of the big departments, having prior volunteer experience, already certified, and a reference from a fire chief goes a long way.
It's tribal politics. The rules of engagement are different in this world.
I totally agree with Cenk. And Tanfeliz, if what you say is true, and it's suspect for so many reasons, did you report that such widespread corruption was occurring. Considering that actual lives are at stake, what was your plan of action in the face of the criminal corruption which you had first hand knowledge of. Ya. That's what I thought. Thank God what you say is complete bullshit
Suspect this, asshole: I'm speaking from firsthand experience, and you're talking out your ass. We work as a crew. We get each other through on the job, too, not just in testing. Check your attitude until your dues are paid, douche.
In your tantrum you forgot to answer the burning question. Given that you claim to be a "fire fighter" and knowing that an unqualified member could cause a catastrophe, the death of the "crew" you wax about, or the death of innocent people; did you report that such widespread corruption was occurring. What was your plan of action in the face of the criminal corruption which you had first hand knowledge of. Beyond reporting it to YouTube. Ya. That's what I thought.
Wow, your head must hurt from knowing everything. And like the other guy, I can tell right off the top you have no experience in the fire service, because there's basic cultural shit you don't understand.
As to your "burning" question -- your theory is that if I didn't turn on my tribesmen when they did everything in their power to make sure I achieved my goals, I must be a liar. My crew doesn't exclude based on race or gender, for the record. Others do.
They didn't learn these tricks in a vacuum. My crewmembers belong to other fire departments, police, EMS, and the military. To varying degrees, they all do similar shit, i.e., teacher pounds on the desk right before reading something that's going to be a test question. Or not, if they don't want you to pass. The only difference is whether your chief is a racist, sexist, only wants people who serve their ends politically (within the fire service), or is wide open to new members.
knowing that an unqualified member could cause a catastrophe,
Yeah, that's something YOU know, not me. The class in question was haz mat. I'm confident that everybody in my class knew the basics of how not to get us killed, and whose lead to follow in a chemical incident. Here's what you still don't get: we're not a group of individuals, we're a tribe. It's a top down system. We follow our leadership, and they do know what to do.
Here's another news flash for you, Perry Mason, Jr.
"the death of the "crew" you wax about,"
There are people on my crew that I can't fucking stand and vice versa. We're not friends. We don't hang out. Sometimes crewmembers physically beat the shit out of each other. But we all know without qualification that we've got each other's backs in a fire. We're family.
"What was your plan of action in the face of the criminal corruption which you had first hand knowledge of. Beyond reporting it to YouTube."
As to your last tidbit of pompous douchebaggery, fake counselor. I'm not "reporting" it here, because it doesn't need reporting. I'm contributing my firsthand knowledge on a given subject, because clearly NOBODY ELSE HERE HAS FIRSTHAND KNOWLEDGE.
Tanfeliz, if your response is any indication, clearly they put all the rejects in the same class. So, of course they had to feed you all the answers. As for the rest of your nonsense, that being a "tribe" is cause for wholesale cheating and corruption, and your excuse for doing nothing about it; well, that speaks volumes to your credibility, integrity and authenticity. This brings us full circle, back to you being complete bullshit. You and your imaginary Haz Mat Tribe. Oh man, this is too fun.
Oh, and Tanfeliz, what's the totem of your cheating and unqualified ( by your own admission ), imaginary Haz Mat Tribe? A tipped over and spilling 50 gallon drum on a pole with a bunch of unqualified doofuses standing around with a mop and confused expressions. What do you call your tribe, Cheatum on Testum to Passum ? Thanks for filling us all in on your privileged knowledge of all the comprehensive cheating offered those that are supposed to be highly trained, not supposed to be needing such.
We shall call you TurkeyHawk ThunderPuff of the Hazum Matum Tribe. Many um macho warriors bear sheild for the Hazum Matum people. Occupying the lower plains, never known for their lightening minds, or their orderly conduct, or honesty, but they make a great bean soup.
I'm sure you're the most badass software programmer around, and have risked your life many times sitting behind your computer taking potshots at females who have more balls than you do. Meanwhile, back at the ranch, go fuck yourself.
Relax, I was just messing with you. If what you say is true, that you are female and an emergency responder, then I actually do have much respect for you. I know a firefighter from LA and he's had one horrific injury and even when everything is going fine, they all get exposed to toxic smoke and chemicals all day long. Besides, woman are totally hot in their uniforms.
See, I told you this would all work out. The Great Spirit works that way. First we Pow-Wow, then the peace pipe, etc.
More importantly, do you know the answer to the following. When combining water and acid, do you add water to the acid? Or do you add the acid to the water?
I could likely tell you in a minute of reading if the test had a bias or not. A normal bias is racial or cultural. The competitive factors have to do with politics and little more. Probably the people or group that wrote the test should come under scrutiny. Most likely it was someone who favored something for financial or job security and benefits reasons. A stupid/selfish/politically motivated "NO!" does not a good admin or test make. It's called biased hierarchal methodology.
I'm not buying La Raza, that's all there is to it. If you're buying this stuff then their scam worked. There is no La Raza, ffs. That's that. Please stop being clowned by believing everything you hear because you want to believe it. Things are not as simple as any minority group being right because they are. You know an actually respectable hispanic "group" in the US? It's called "you don't speak for me". That's the only nationally relevant one I can think of. Please stop getting conned.
You don't know what the heck you're talking about. La Raza isn't a group, period. A ton of "groups" have used the name, and if you know anything about anything, you'd know the origin of the name itself is vulgar. Must be nice to live in lollipop lane and ignore the real problems out there while calling it "being aware of race as an issue". You're darn right it's an issue, and sugar coating problems is far away from caring about a real solution.
After a great deal of thought, I agree with the Supreme Court's decision.
While it is a problem that minorities come from poorer backgrounds and therefore have fewer opportunities, I do not believe racial quotas are the best solution. There are a lot of poor whites getting left behind by this system, and I think it fuels racism in a roundabout way.
If education was more available, I believe the gaps between races and the gap between rich and poor would lessen.
The reason that less black Americans passed is that society still is not a society of equals. Whites come from a place of privilege, of better school and better academic opportunities. Blacks come from less stable families as a result of socially entrenched white privilege, they are ghettoized and have life stresses which prevent them for academically achieving the same levels as their white counter parts. So no, the test itself is not racially biased, but the results are an indicator of racism.
the promotion shouldnt depend completely on a test and more on in the field actions/decisions. However, being black i don't think that racism has anything to do with this, the test was taken by everyone obviously the white people may have scored better.
What Cenk fails to bring into his video is the history of the New Haven Fire Dept. It has a record of discriminatory practices dating back to 1973 and it is that reason that the city elected to cancel the test for fear of being discriminatory. It was based on those earlier instances and those thereafter whereby the promotions were arbitrary and there were patent instances when people were promoted as to prevent minorities from being promoted. Cenk you need to review the history of New Haven.
I'm black and I agree with the ruling. I don't know what was on the test but apparently it wasn't anything that nonwhite people shouldn't be able to answer (at least in the opinion of the Supreme Court). Though the fact that the ruling was so close still makes me kind of suspicious of what exactly was added to the test.
Well, I trust the the ruling was legitimate. What I'm more upset about is why two white men who dragged a black man to death were let free recently.
Cenk forgot to tell you guys that Sotomayor NEVER HEARD THIS CASE! She, along with the two other judges on the 2nd Court simply went with the law as currently written. They did NOT make any type of ruling, and that is what makes the Conservative argument an inane one. Cenk, fix yourself on this one.
What's the test consist of? That matters. Until recently, researchers have used Western intelligence tests to judge the intellect of people from Eastern, Mediterranean, African and Sub-Saharan nations.
People learn things in different ways, and people's approach to knowledge differs on culture.
If that is what the issue is here, then Sotomayor is right.
My sister mentioned the same thing. The results show that ethnic minorities across the board score lower on multiple choice tests than caucasians and the tests for the firefighters had a significant number of multiple choice questions. If there had been fewer mult. choice or if they had counted less or equal to the overall score that makes a considerable difference.
Racist bullshit. May the best men be promoted, regardless of their color. You can't say no because the color mix wasn't 'right'. It's fucking disgusting.
What I think is crazy is that if there were more black or hispanic folk who passed the test in comparison to caucasians... would this still have been an issue? ESPECIALLY should the chief be, say, hispanic.?
My guess is: no one would have challenged it out of fear of political correctness.
SmashtheCmachine 5 months ago
When Christie wins,he'll open Obama's records,and she'll be back at Yankee Stadium.
ImDavidGurney 11 months ago
Affirmative Action is glorified Apartheid!
ashken79 1 year ago 3
I think that race shouldn't be determining factor anymore in promotions or job placement.
FromBoomTown 1 year ago
the young turks is the organization which orchestred the armenian genocide, even though there were genocide on both side. the turks implemented the deliberate cultural destruction of the armenians. i wonder why they took this name i guess it is because it is a name which signify rebellion. the young turks were named that way because many member in government were very young.
crusader651 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I bet the Democrats' heads exploded when those firefighters finally got promoted.
StoogeWatcher 1 year ago
Discrimination is just wrong on all counts. Slavery was wrong, but so is Affirmative Action....its just that simple. Two wrongs do not make a right, even a SIMPLE mind like Obama should realize that.
3dartistguy 2 years ago
The young turks are really racist! Do you know that the Turks did towards christian Greeks, Assyrians and Armenians between 1914-1920? Do you know what the Turks do to the Kurds?
FreeDogdylan 2 years ago
did you even watch the video
M3IZI 1 year ago
This reminds me of the sexism argument. Some feminists I've heard complain how there's sexism in politics because there's not many females in the career. I'm a male nurse, and there's not many of us (about 12%). I've never met sexism, but by stats, I must have.
bersaba 2 years ago
lol. wow you guys arent biased at all.
BOOLsheet 2 years ago
Sotomayor is a self proclaimed La Raza Racist.
Burster1 2 years ago
the stupid thing is that all the conservative supreme justices voted one way and all the liberal ones voted the other way (according to Cenk).
why can't people just use their own fuc**ng brains instead of doing whatever they're told by their party?
247politics 2 years ago
they are in that party because of what there brain tells them
M3IZI 1 year ago
If you look at the numbers of people that passed the test from each ethnic group, there is no way to show disparate impact. The ratio of people who passed from each ethnic group would have to be overwhelmingly lopsided for it to show disparate impact. Intent to discriminate would be despicable, but we need to move beyond just focusing on the results or we will find ourselves rigging tests in order to get the results we want. You can't start with results and work backward.
rbush2271 2 years ago
you people are idiots. if you think that firefighters dont want the best guy they can next to them you might as well learn how to baaaahhh. You liberal sheep are ridiculous, every time blacks or mexicans don't get a promotion they probably weren't the best person for the job. I'm not saying there's not discrimination, I'm black.... But to have the supreme court of the united states making judgements on a county firestation exam? Thats whats troubling here, we now have a tyrannical government
tirmen8er 2 years ago
Tirmen8er, I agree with everything you said except the Liberal bashing. Firstly, Cenk agreed with the supreme court (the "republican" belief), and he's a liberal. Secondly, Sotomayor applied the letter of the law, which is what this whole video was about.
bersaba 2 years ago
100%
chupalia 2 years ago
Why is there so many problems with posting comments on YouTube.Since Google bought it it's gotten worse.
pep103 2 years ago
well i guess there's no getting around it.... whites are superior and minorities are weak bitches......
dcarterfrom07 2 years ago
dude....... no
Piko6262 2 years ago
No its just not minorities get whatever they want and can do whatever they want cause white Europeans are terrified of being called racist
fuggsakes 2 years ago 2
We European white people aren't scared to be racist.
for instance: i'll discriminate you because of your low IQ.
However..
I dont see how Sotomayo is racist or baised, but i do see how everyone else is for thinking that she might be..
The whole concept is based on paradoxial blame.
I accuse someone of being racist before someone can accuse me of being one.
DownLowProductions 2 years ago
Oh and too bad you're a majority..
:)
DownLowProductions 2 years ago
So you have telepathy or something? how did you know my IQ score? lame attempt at being funny
Honestly, what more does it take to be a racist than to publicly state that one race is superior to another
fuggsakes 2 years ago
it takes ignorance and a twisted view on things that make people like you interpret them out of context.
but as i was saying, according to you, in my lame attempt to be funny, you wouldn't understand..
the irony is.. i was serious..
DownLowProductions 2 years ago
Withhold opinion here - do we suspect that the test has a cultural basis. In the meantime How could anyone every prove the intent to discriminate??? Racist are a bit more sophisticated now.
77prflood 2 years ago
At the end of the day the old saying is true, "Two wrongs don't make a right."
chairde 2 years ago 2
It 's ignorance, not racism when you have a pathetic minority culture, with a peasant minded mentality, who feed off of failure and apathy like a drug, following their elders. Why are so many Americans fat? Because it's easy to be. And it's easy to be a loser when your black or brown. But why do they expect the easy way out or lowered standards hand out?. Because the minority culture in America is weak. And weak people always let you down.
JEZUZ915 2 years ago
This would be like a school teacher giving out a test that included information that was previously covered and required studying up on. Then, after the test results rendered a performance slope with a higher amount of white kids with passing grades than kids of other races, the teacher negated the test scores and gave out a new one that would be easier for the kids of other races to pass.
The point is, that shouldn't happen.
awise107 2 years ago
I would expect nothing less from one of the most perverse channels on You Tube.
BluTri10 2 years ago
I agree, people should not be denied promotions because people of other races did not study and do good on the test. This is a clear cut case of discrimination, people should be promoted due to their skill and work habits and not be denied promotions because of other races not doing good on the same test.
Socomnick 2 years ago
I am white and took a test to be an assistant rapper and failed. Darn
mmhmaster 2 years ago
Fight it all the way to the Supreme Court
InterWebsTuberNetter 2 years ago
Yes Turd I Agree Lets Just Throw Away The Constitution. You Dumb Ass.
mmhmaster 2 years ago
If this young turd had a judge replace him because he was too white he would cry like a baby.
mmhmaster 2 years ago
Here is the bottom line. Our government has heavy quota systems.
I used to travel alot and you could go into an airport in the whitest area in the country and yes the baggage handlers are all black.
mmhmaster 2 years ago
So is the speed of light racist?
is 2=2=4 racist?
is H2O racist?
Gee I dont know.
mmhmaster 2 years ago
I cant understand this guy, what is he saying? I know why I cant understand him...
he is a racist.
mmhmaster 2 years ago
How can a test be racist??? This is total crap.
Can anyone bive me an example of a racist question in terms of a subjet i.e. math, science, english, chemistry.
Or maybe technical as in electronics? No of course not.
So the test is secret right so that we cant see that the test is not racist.
Do they mean the test is too hard for blacks? Yes that is what it means.
mmhmaster 2 years ago
This reasoning that Rachel Maddow and her little puppets on her show are using, is absolutely bullshit. They are talking about minimums. That might work to "hire" someone, but it is a completely different story when you are trying to set people apart for a promotion. That line of thinking is how we are going to put this country in the shitter. Study harder...period.
VAkraut 2 years ago
First Ricci sues to get his foot in the door.Then these white conservative firefighters sue because the city wants a more diverse fire department that reflects its population.Any city in anywhere USA has the right to equal employment for all.If the Supreme Court does not recognise all the facts this opens the door for companies that do not hire minorities to keep on discriminating. Is this Court blind to the fact that whites unemployment rate is 9% and for hispanics about 13% and blacks 15%?
pep103 2 years ago
So white firefighters should be denied promotion simply because of their race?
And those percentages arent caused by discrimination, theyre caused by a difference in cultures. The Asian unemployment is lower than the white one I'm sure.
falconclaw5000 2 years ago 2
So you are saying to hiring people based on race and not the most qualified? I'm a hispanic, and I do have to say the racist one is you. If I got picked for something because I was hispanic I would find it RACIST.
satanicpoohbear 2 years ago 2
I also like to comment on this "Is this Court blind to the fact that whites unemployment rate is 9% and for hispanics about 13% and blacks 15%?" So you want the court to give people benefits over others because of their race?! I think justice should be "blind" to race, and I hope the courts get past RACIAL BIAS. Because you apparently have not gotten over it.
satanicpoohbear 2 years ago
end all reverse racism and start with afffirmative action and do it now.
nuttybar9 2 years ago
Who are the real idiots here: The people who gave the test, or the people who took them? Simple.
More finger pointing, and no good solution in the end. While the question still abounds, Who is the greatest candidate?
You could call it a mis-management alltogether of sorts eh?
But hey, maybe youve got a real great person in mind! And whatever lead you to that, a test, or a miracle, I would hope its the right choice for all of us, and not just for you.
m3taLB1Rd 2 years ago
The best candidate should be the one selected. My only problem with these tests is that the results are kept secret. If nobody gets to see the actual test results of each candidate, how is it clear who scored best?
It looks a little like the Iran Elections. You have to take the word of the Ayatollah, who assures you nothing was rigged. I'm from Missouri, you gotta show me!
thursdaysrecords 2 years ago
If your house is on fire I'm sure you don't give a crap what the person's skin color is. You just want the best fire fighters. It doesn't matter if they're all black, all white or some mixture of races. In America all positions should go to the best. Period.
mikebgood 2 years ago 2
This from THE YOUNG TURDS
57haight 2 years ago
I myself am completely surprised that sotomayor is even being judged, she herself is quite racist, and she makes her decsions based upon "experiance" and her "heritage". That is a load of $hit. I myself am not racist, i have several multi-racial friends. If the Black firefighters scored higher on the test, power to them, tossed the white out, they would deserve it. Why the court doesn't observe the fact that sotomayor ignors rules, and "goes with HER GUT FEELING" i will never know.
MoointheMeadow 2 years ago 2
After listening to the video, I am glad that you agree that it is wrong to judge a test by the final tests results based on the color of the individuals who took the test.
I have taken similar tests and these test are designed to test the skills of police officers and firefighters. When it comes to our public saftey color does not matter. We want the best officer or fire fighter whether they are white, black, yellow or red.. does not matter...PICK THE BEST
bobsacard1 2 years ago
I like where this fellow is going with his argument.
It certainly seems time to move beyond results-based determinations. To lay a heavy hand on people's success merely to fill some quota is gerrymandering at its worst.
Brandtalones 2 years ago
Does this concept also apply to the NBA and NFL. We need to reorganize the teams???
fee1776 2 years ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
Why are these firefighters at the Sotomayor hearings? Who is paying there wages? Is New Haven footing the bill or should they bill Jeff Sessions and the Repulicans.This is for Frank who has Dyslexia.TEG YB OT KROW DNA POTS GNISU XAT SREYAP OT TEG A NOITOMORP,YZAL SSA!!!
pep103 2 years ago
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pep103 2 years ago
Far from the test merely 'not being rigged', great effort by numerous testing professionals to avoid discrimination in the design of the test was described in the original case. This was by any available measure a valid test for the job position in question, and that was an established fact in the original case. This is why the original ruling--and Sotomayor's casual affirmation of it--was so egregious.
saintlysecretions 2 years ago
Well said.
Cotoredondo 2 years ago
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saintlysecretions 2 years ago
This guy has misstated the structure of the case.
Disparate impact was not removed as a consideration (it's still in the law)! New Haven's error was to take a job action that ITSELF had a disparate impact (denying qualified whites a promotion because they were white) while failing to point to a viable alternative means of establishing job qualification. Disparate impact FOR NO GOOD REASON is the key test that applies to all Title VII cases.
saintlysecretions 2 years ago
I would like someone to give an example of a "racist" question from the test! I think Sotomayor did rule correctly at the time since she was following establised case law until the Supreme Court changed.
CorporationsSuck 2 years ago
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CorporationsSuck 2 years ago
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CorporationsSuck 2 years ago
Its ok with the Demorats if your a racist as long as your a non white racist.
ruppertknickerbocker 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Racist, affirmative action supporting puerto rican piece of shit.
fooschnikens 2 years ago
Sotomayor looks unhealthy, maybe she is a good choice won't last long. She is no better possibly worse then the dirt bag we call a supreme judge she will be replacing.
joe035 2 years ago
At this state in the game affirmative action has no place. Tests regarding fire fighting are not culturally biased, this is not a test of cultural knowledge. You either know what the procedures to fight fires are or you don't, regardless of skin color.
Darrylizer1 2 years ago
This topic always seems to bring out the worse in people and cause a racial divide.
However I think this issue must be looked at from a historical standpoint. the inequalities of the past built along color lines have never been corrected so why would you not expect the results of such a test to be skewed. The supreme court rulings of the last 3 decades have slowly removed affirmative action. This case marks an issue that this country has never been fully able to redress and correct: race.
heydude1288 2 years ago
The Supreme Court has removed affirmative action because it's wrong. We should not be concerned with equality of outcome but equality of opportunity. Changing opportunity, once rights are equal, in no way involves the law. The thing that confuses me about the qhole situation is this: When you study for a fireman's exam you get a study book and read it. Now, what kind of question would a caucasian or a hispanic be able to answer that an african-american couldn't? None. Case closed.
ninjanerd8 2 years ago
Why are promotions to the positions of captain and lieutenant primarily on a written exam?
Ricci took extraordinary steps to ace the test—six months off work to prepare and $1,000 on tutoring. If I were a firefighter I would not want my captain to be someone that just did well on a test I would want him to have earned it by the things he did on the job and by doing the best job. This case is deeper then they are advertising on the news..
smdiddy 2 years ago
While he is taking 6 months off to study (paying for a tutor) and live it up at home these other firefighters are actually doing the job they are paid to do.. It is not an easy case and Sotomayor (and others on the panel) ruled in favor of the state.
smdiddy 2 years ago 2
Let's just call this case what it is: discrimination against these firefighters for being white.
NoleMan007 2 years ago
I still say this guy is an ASSHOLE!
TheS10shorty 2 years ago
And everyone still thinks you are a dumbass.
BCRice111 2 years ago
The point is that a worker that sues you for racial discrimination no longer wants anything to do with you and will only be happy with your castration; mostly financial, but castrastion nonetheless.
Like some plaintiff might, "THEY WANT YOOR'ASS, MEN!"
LMAO
motelcalifornia 2 years ago
Most people who become cops or firefighters graduate from public schools. Since this happened in the Northeast, you can throw in Catholic schools becuase those schools DO NOT encourage flexing your intellectual muscle either. Both types of schools, public and Catholic, lead to serious fear of testing.
motelcalifornia 2 years ago
NO matter how you cut it, Affirmative Action is just wrong. Giving preferences to anyone is WRONG. making up for the wrongs of the past is just WRONG. racail quotas are just WRONG. Sottomayor was just WRONG. THe Obama Regume is JUST wrong for nominating this raciat woman. sottomayor's nomination is just WRONG. The City of New Haven was just WRONG in denying advancement to these overachieving firefighters. AFFIRMATIVE ACTION AND RACIAL QUOTAS ARE just wrong.
3dartistguy 2 years ago
Affirmative ACTION is the law for governments only. Would you like to be taxed by a government that would never hire you?
Companies and other entities that whine about Affirmative Action are no more than a pack of hipocrites. They get caught discriminating, the court hands them the bill, so they choose to ape an affirmative action. It would have been cheaper to do the right thing from day one.
motelcalifornia 2 years ago
If you are a private entity and you are using the right criteria--qualifications and skill-- you have nothing to worry about. If you lose a discrimination lawsuit, your lawyer just ripped you off.
motelcalifornia 2 years ago
wHAT IF YOU'RE AN INDIVIDUAL WHO IS WHITE AND WAS DISCRIMINATED AGAINST BECAUSE OF AFFIRMATIVE ACTION AND RACIAL QUOTAS...THE EEOC DOES NOTHING IF YOU'RE A WHITE MALE. I KNOW, BECAUSE IVE MADE COMPLAINTS ABOUT REVERSE DISCRIMINATION, AND THEY'VE DONE NOTHING. THEY ONLY LISTEN IF YOU'RE A MINORITY. THATS NOT EQUAL OPPROTUNITY.
3dartistguy 2 years ago
That means that YOUR EMPLOYER was discriminating against minority and is already in the sock.
The Affirmative Action route is cheaper than just paying the fine and just fucking himself. So he FUCKS YOU.
Oh, and by the way, he's not going to tell you that the EEOC has rod up his ass. It's a civil arbitration agency, not a court. They can land him his throat in the hand of the Department of Justice, the place WHERE IT REALLY MATTERS because, well, someone is going to jail for civil.....
motelcalifornia 2 years ago
Yes, businesses should HIRE the Best QUALIFIED, NOT ON THE BASIS OF RACE OR GENDER. THE GOVERNMENT FORCES THEM TO HIRE THE LEAST QUALIFIED BASED ON RACE AND GENDER. DOING THE RIGHT THING IS HIRING THE BEST QUALIFIED WITHOUT ANY PREFERENCES, OR RACIAL QUOTAS.
3dartistguy 2 years ago
You miss my point. The government CANNOT force you to hire in any way---it can only find a PATTERN OF DISCRIMINATION in the way you hire after someone SUES YOU for racial discrimination.
WHOSE IDEA IS IT to hire that way? THEIR FUCKING LAWYERS, THAT'S WHO? Haven't you seen a video here in YouTube where this law firm actually had the balls to film itself giving advice on HOW NOT TO HIRE AMERICAN CITIZENS. The idea was to BS the federal government into believeing THAT THEY NEEDED H1B workers
motelcalifornia 2 years ago
It's not difficult to find A BAD GUY in most companies. You walk into a corporation. It has two divisions. In one, the workforce is either diversified or 100% people of color. In the other division, everyone is white. You are discrimination lawyer. Next step--START CARVING THAT RACIST TURKEY FOR YOUR CLIENT in a lawsuit over either promotions (can't get in the "white" division); pay (the "white" division workers have higher pay); and so on. The fact is that most employers are fuckups.
motelcalifornia 2 years ago
You guys forget that the only the only thing you need to become a firefighter is a high school diploma. The damage inflicted upon you by a public school education goes on forever, and the outcome of this test is proof of that.
motelcalifornia 2 years ago
I'm not sure I buy the notion that whites test better on multiple choice questions. If that was the case, wouldn't others be well served by just reading the question, write down what they think is the correct answer on a sheet of scratch paper or something, and then look for their answer among the 4 choices? And, are there any statistics comparing how different races compare on other types of questions, such as essay questions or fill in the blank questions?
nightmoves44 2 years ago
4:52 - Cenk, this is bigger than any test, bigger thatn Sotomayor! The Supreme Court used this minor issue as an excuse for:
The wholesale replacement of the civil, in-company process of racial discrimination resolution, with a court-mandated process, where an employer's FAIR burden of providing a discrimination-free workplace, is transfered to the employee, as a new, UNFAIR hardship of "proof through payment" of unaffordable legal fees for each challenge to his/her own discrimination!
dukenthaylor 2 years ago
So.. minorities are slower or naturally inept then?
Is this what's censored?
Efferts 2 years ago
No Efferts,
If a black man fails a test it's the fault of the test, the community, the system, the country, the weather, history, geography; but never, never the man.
In direct answer to your question, I don't know who is slower or more naturally inept. It's pretty obvious that the black community doesn't emphasize education nearly as much as other groups of people. There's a consequence to always blaming somebody else, it precludes any self evaluation, which precludes improvement.
ThisCouldGetWeird 2 years ago
But in a smaller sample, particularly one in which minority candidates come from largely the same neighborhood, one might see racial disparities based on upbringing and educational history. It's not fair to scrap test results based SOLEY on "non-PC" results, unless those results are so one-sided as to be transparently biased.
The tough question is where does "questionable" turn into "obviously biased".
From my limited reading, the Ricci ruling (5-4 remember) sets the bar too high.
erazdadazz 2 years ago
The early comments by "Tanfeliz" are important.
In this case it appears that there was *probably* some kind of nepotism going on. Not via the test content itself, but in the way applicants for promotion were prepared. In that respect Sotomayor is vindicated.
However, the larger question about whether lopsided results are inherently discriminatory is trickier. Clearly, given hundreds of minority applicants and very few minorities passing strongly indicates funny business.
cont'd...
erazdadazz 2 years ago
Really erazdadazz? So, the incredibly high drop out rate from high school of minority groups is also the result of "funny business" ( read, somebody else's fault )
ThisCouldGetWeird 2 years ago
Thats Bullshit Cenk!
crazyriri1985 2 years ago
Affirmative action needs to go to bed.
It's racist and we need to get rid of it.
gonyea12 2 years ago
Amen!
WhiteMenNeedNotApply 2 years ago
"you put a question about bing crosby..." lol
bitchiwantdinner 2 years ago
It is apparent that Sotomayor is a RACIST! Is the Obama Administration saying that RACISM is OK? It certainly seems the Obama Administration is advocating RACISM.
Nice Message. RACISM BEGETS RACISM.
roughcoat09 2 years ago
For fun let's reverse the numbers. Would if 17 Latinos and 2 white people passed. What do you think the reaction would be? Definitely the test would be scrapped as invalid.
I understand Young Turk the validity of questioning the content of tests being discriminatory. but the problem with the whole discrimination argument is that it does not give enough examination to the effects of oppression on a people and the generations that follow. Broad sweeping stmts that we're all = is infuriatin
okaasan3 2 years ago
okaasan Bullshit proposition;we all know who has the interest groups with the lawyers; working classwhites became invisible in these arguments a longtime ago; if you want to test your proposition,just offer all groups the great idea of taking the race question off the box;lI guarantee ,the White applicants wouldn't fight that.
mrbriscoe2001 2 years ago
"Help,my house is burning down;and I don't like the racial composition of those fighting it."
mrbriscoe2001 2 years ago 3
It's time for the great Racial Spoils system to end;you fix the inner city schols to allow minorities to compete;you dont rig tests and fuck over working class white males.f
mrbriscoe2001 2 years ago 2
The Eldritchmask :I don't see the Left balance;When Ruth Ginsburg said "These firefighters had no vested right to a promotion",I didn't see "balance";I saw raw ,elitist,Liberal arrogance.
mrbriscoe2001 2 years ago
You have to take into account the delayed effects of demographics on institutions.
Those white firefighters very likely had the expertise, and the others didn't simply because they had been there longer. That's a natural effect, both entirely legitimate and in no way representing intentional or even unintentional discrimination.
This is the gaping injustice in affirmative action/discrimination law.
chrisbord 2 years ago
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llortgib567 2 years ago
It would be stupid to make Sodomayor a Supreme Court Justice when the Supreme Court just over-turned her racist decision on a major discrimination case. This combined with her racist remarks, clearly show that shes racist.
llortgib567 2 years ago
Kinda funny. If enough minorities don't pass a test, then something is wrong with the test.
I need to correct the speaker in the video. Disparate impact WAS the initial judicial acticism to create the notion of disparate impact. The Supreme Court corrected the error.
LothairOfLorraine 2 years ago
Actually they are trying to become Captains. Either you are smart enough or not, stop bitching.
yak6ex 2 years ago
Great commentary Cenk, I think you really captured the essence of what should happen and acknowledge the difficulty it places on the victim of genuine racism the burden of proving their case. The decision was just but far from perfect.
flakejakee 2 years ago 2
First let me say I'm a firefighter, and I'm white.
There's a lot of competition to become a firefighter. Unqualified people aren't going to make it, even if they're minorities, just because they're minorities.
The white boy club makes sure those they want in, get in, and those they want out, stay out. It has nothing to do with being qualified. Frequently less qualified white guys get good old boyed in.
Tanfeliz 2 years ago 3
thanks for your honestly
theentrepreneur2006 2 years ago
Don't get me wrong, there are better and worse departments. If you're determined enough you'll make it through, if not at one department, then another.
But this idea people have where if you're a woman or minority you can get hired anyway even if you're not qualified? I haven't seen that happen in police, fire or EMS, at all. Step 1, you have to be qualified. Unless of course you get white boyed in.
Tanfeliz 2 years ago
On average that is not true.
yak6ex 2 years ago
How much fire service experience do you have? I've been through fire academy and seen firsthand how the testing scam works.
I've also seen what happens when women and minorities who are really skilled want to get ahead. It gets ugly with a quickness.
Tanfeliz 2 years ago
Tanfeliz :You are telling me that entry level minorities that score well enough on the exam ,have the same veteran points,same criminal record background results,are being kept off the firefighter department because of their race?;I'm sorry;I just don't believe you.
mrbriscoe2001 2 years ago 2
Again, I can tell by the way you ask the question you have no fire service experience, because the context is wrong.
What happens is this: if they want you on the department, they make sure you pass the test.
In my fire academy when we took haz mat, which is a really hard class, the teacher took the test and read it word for word to us, gave us the multiple choice answers and had us pick as a class, then explained why the right answer was right.
Tanfeliz 2 years ago
After reading us the test word for word, he said, "OK, well you're not supposed to use your books during this test, but I'm going to be out in the bay while you take it. I would never tell anybody to cheat, but I won't know if you did."
Figure it out.
Tanfeliz 2 years ago
So if there are some people they want to pass and some people they don't want to pass, the above information is given in private to the selected ones. Presto magico, higher test scores!
I've heard of people - WHOOPSIE! - forgetting to run a background check on someone they wanted on the department.
As I said above, if you're a woman or minority and happen to be indomitable and pass on your own merits, there are other methods. Remember the fire service is a tribe. Think ostracism.
Tanfeliz 2 years ago
There's a complexity to it.
On volunteer fire departments the membership votes whether to let new applicants in or not. That's legal. It's a volunteer department.
Non public safety people don't get this; if you want to apply at one of the big departments, having prior volunteer experience, already certified, and a reference from a fire chief goes a long way.
It's tribal politics. The rules of engagement are different in this world.
Tanfeliz 2 years ago
...ahem...BULLSHIT!
ThisCouldGetWeird 2 years ago
I totally agree with Cenk. And Tanfeliz, if what you say is true, and it's suspect for so many reasons, did you report that such widespread corruption was occurring. Considering that actual lives are at stake, what was your plan of action in the face of the criminal corruption which you had first hand knowledge of. Ya. That's what I thought. Thank God what you say is complete bullshit
ThisCouldGetWeird 2 years ago
Suspect this, asshole: I'm speaking from firsthand experience, and you're talking out your ass. We work as a crew. We get each other through on the job, too, not just in testing. Check your attitude until your dues are paid, douche.
Tanfeliz 2 years ago
Well Tanfeliz,
In your tantrum you forgot to answer the burning question. Given that you claim to be a "fire fighter" and knowing that an unqualified member could cause a catastrophe, the death of the "crew" you wax about, or the death of innocent people; did you report that such widespread corruption was occurring. What was your plan of action in the face of the criminal corruption which you had first hand knowledge of. Beyond reporting it to YouTube. Ya. That's what I thought.
ThisCouldGetWeird 2 years ago
Wow, your head must hurt from knowing everything. And like the other guy, I can tell right off the top you have no experience in the fire service, because there's basic cultural shit you don't understand.
As to your "burning" question -- your theory is that if I didn't turn on my tribesmen when they did everything in their power to make sure I achieved my goals, I must be a liar. My crew doesn't exclude based on race or gender, for the record. Others do.
Tanfeliz 2 years ago
They didn't learn these tricks in a vacuum. My crewmembers belong to other fire departments, police, EMS, and the military. To varying degrees, they all do similar shit, i.e., teacher pounds on the desk right before reading something that's going to be a test question. Or not, if they don't want you to pass. The only difference is whether your chief is a racist, sexist, only wants people who serve their ends politically (within the fire service), or is wide open to new members.
Tanfeliz 2 years ago
On to your cross examination, fake counselor.
knowing that an unqualified member could cause a catastrophe,
Yeah, that's something YOU know, not me. The class in question was haz mat. I'm confident that everybody in my class knew the basics of how not to get us killed, and whose lead to follow in a chemical incident. Here's what you still don't get: we're not a group of individuals, we're a tribe. It's a top down system. We follow our leadership, and they do know what to do.
Tanfeliz 2 years ago
Here's another news flash for you, Perry Mason, Jr.
"the death of the "crew" you wax about,"
There are people on my crew that I can't fucking stand and vice versa. We're not friends. We don't hang out. Sometimes crewmembers physically beat the shit out of each other. But we all know without qualification that we've got each other's backs in a fire. We're family.
Tanfeliz 2 years ago
"What was your plan of action in the face of the criminal corruption which you had first hand knowledge of. Beyond reporting it to YouTube."
As to your last tidbit of pompous douchebaggery, fake counselor. I'm not "reporting" it here, because it doesn't need reporting. I'm contributing my firsthand knowledge on a given subject, because clearly NOBODY ELSE HERE HAS FIRSTHAND KNOWLEDGE.
Enjoy your big glass of STFU.
Tanfeliz 2 years ago
Tanfeliz, if your response is any indication, clearly they put all the rejects in the same class. So, of course they had to feed you all the answers. As for the rest of your nonsense, that being a "tribe" is cause for wholesale cheating and corruption, and your excuse for doing nothing about it; well, that speaks volumes to your credibility, integrity and authenticity. This brings us full circle, back to you being complete bullshit. You and your imaginary Haz Mat Tribe. Oh man, this is too fun.
ThisCouldGetWeird 2 years ago
Oh, and Tanfeliz, what's the totem of your cheating and unqualified ( by your own admission ), imaginary Haz Mat Tribe? A tipped over and spilling 50 gallon drum on a pole with a bunch of unqualified doofuses standing around with a mop and confused expressions. What do you call your tribe, Cheatum on Testum to Passum ? Thanks for filling us all in on your privileged knowledge of all the comprehensive cheating offered those that are supposed to be highly trained, not supposed to be needing such.
ThisCouldGetWeird 2 years ago
Civilians who don't know shit but still like to talk. ::yawn::
Tanfeliz 2 years ago
Imaginary bad asses that talk big head about their hard core chicken hawk status in bullshit units that are never named. ::yawn:: ::chuckle, chuckle::
Hey, I forgot to ask. Do you guys were headbands. Like with feathers. War paint, like big question marks on your faces. You're priceless.
ThisCouldGetWeird 2 years ago
Seriously Tanfeliz,
We shall call you TurkeyHawk ThunderPuff of the Hazum Matum Tribe. Many um macho warriors bear sheild for the Hazum Matum people. Occupying the lower plains, never known for their lightening minds, or their orderly conduct, or honesty, but they make a great bean soup.
ThisCouldGetWeird 2 years ago
I'm sure you're the most badass software programmer around, and have risked your life many times sitting behind your computer taking potshots at females who have more balls than you do. Meanwhile, back at the ranch, go fuck yourself.
Tanfeliz 2 years ago
Relax, I was just messing with you. If what you say is true, that you are female and an emergency responder, then I actually do have much respect for you. I know a firefighter from LA and he's had one horrific injury and even when everything is going fine, they all get exposed to toxic smoke and chemicals all day long. Besides, woman are totally hot in their uniforms.
ThisCouldGetWeird 2 years ago
Yeah, I feel totally respected.
Tanfeliz 2 years ago
See, I told you this would all work out. The Great Spirit works that way. First we Pow-Wow, then the peace pipe, etc.
More importantly, do you know the answer to the following. When combining water and acid, do you add water to the acid? Or do you add the acid to the water?
Maheya-Heya
ThisCouldGetWeird 2 years ago
I could likely tell you in a minute of reading if the test had a bias or not. A normal bias is racial or cultural. The competitive factors have to do with politics and little more. Probably the people or group that wrote the test should come under scrutiny. Most likely it was someone who favored something for financial or job security and benefits reasons. A stupid/selfish/politically motivated "NO!" does not a good admin or test make. It's called biased hierarchal methodology.
hypnofan35 2 years ago
the test was written by an independent firm that was hired to create a none biased test. there was no bias just sore losers.
acerusso 2 years ago
Sotomayor is so extremely well-qualified she'll be overwhelmingly confirmed.
Even my 2 Texas Republican Senators will vote for her.
Next subject...
DillonX 2 years ago
What the fuck was on this test? Country music questions?
Honestly. Please.
YawnGod 2 years ago 3
That's what I'm thinking. I fail to see how a promotion I test for firefighting can have a racial impact or bias. I simply don't get it.
Savior20061 2 years ago
I'm not buying La Raza, that's all there is to it. If you're buying this stuff then their scam worked. There is no La Raza, ffs. That's that. Please stop being clowned by believing everything you hear because you want to believe it. Things are not as simple as any minority group being right because they are. You know an actually respectable hispanic "group" in the US? It's called "you don't speak for me". That's the only nationally relevant one I can think of. Please stop getting conned.
shadowcnidarian 2 years ago
You don't know what the heck you're talking about. La Raza isn't a group, period. A ton of "groups" have used the name, and if you know anything about anything, you'd know the origin of the name itself is vulgar. Must be nice to live in lollipop lane and ignore the real problems out there while calling it "being aware of race as an issue". You're darn right it's an issue, and sugar coating problems is far away from caring about a real solution.
shadowcnidarian 2 years ago
I'd like to see this test. I wonder what kinds of things that could ask that would make it easier for one person to another.
burntonion05 2 years ago
all americans are dumb.
fenderbass 2 years ago
yeah thats exactly the point i was making
noldorian86 2 years ago
After a great deal of thought, I agree with the Supreme Court's decision.
While it is a problem that minorities come from poorer backgrounds and therefore have fewer opportunities, I do not believe racial quotas are the best solution. There are a lot of poor whites getting left behind by this system, and I think it fuels racism in a roundabout way.
If education was more available, I believe the gaps between races and the gap between rich and poor would lessen.
Dyne77 2 years ago 4
Finally a reasonable comment .Thank you.
twinfan91 2 years ago
I wonder how many whites and minorities took the test to begin with? Did I miss something here?
Jensagirl 2 years ago
The reason that less black Americans passed is that society still is not a society of equals. Whites come from a place of privilege, of better school and better academic opportunities. Blacks come from less stable families as a result of socially entrenched white privilege, they are ghettoized and have life stresses which prevent them for academically achieving the same levels as their white counter parts. So no, the test itself is not racially biased, but the results are an indicator of racism.
fiercefunky 2 years ago
They're damn good at sports though.
bioman123 2 years ago
Sotomayor will easily get 60 Senate votes for confirmation.
Even our 2 Republican Senators from Texas will vote for her.
DillonX 2 years ago
the promotion shouldnt depend completely on a test and more on in the field actions/decisions. However, being black i don't think that racism has anything to do with this, the test was taken by everyone obviously the white people may have scored better.
poozeppelin 2 years ago
Cenk calm down and just wait.Calm Down.
dontfuckwithmeman 2 years ago
How is this even e racial dispute?
This is about qualification.
If you score better, you get better chances on practicing the job. Make the test anonymous, problem solved!
Rakly3 2 years ago 5
This comment has received too many negative votes show
its ok to have a racist sexist on the scotus,
as long as shes mexican
Rainsdad 2 years ago
Umm she's not Mexican. She's Puerto Rican.
Juniversal 2 years ago
you say tomatoe i say tomatoe
Rainsdad 2 years ago
Sotomayor is a racist piece of ratshit.
donottake 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
i didnt know cenk was a racist but he is a liberal so i guess ignorance and intolerance are part of his beliefs
jogeryjogo 2 years ago
What Cenk fails to bring into his video is the history of the New Haven Fire Dept. It has a record of discriminatory practices dating back to 1973 and it is that reason that the city elected to cancel the test for fear of being discriminatory. It was based on those earlier instances and those thereafter whereby the promotions were arbitrary and there were patent instances when people were promoted as to prevent minorities from being promoted. Cenk you need to review the history of New Haven.
pongman 2 years ago 2
vvvv
duelo99 2 years ago
I'm black and I agree with the ruling. I don't know what was on the test but apparently it wasn't anything that nonwhite people shouldn't be able to answer (at least in the opinion of the Supreme Court). Though the fact that the ruling was so close still makes me kind of suspicious of what exactly was added to the test.
Well, I trust the the ruling was legitimate. What I'm more upset about is why two white men who dragged a black man to death were let free recently.
A86 2 years ago 2
they let those monsters out?!
REVxERIK 2 years ago
Yeah, they didn't care enough to keep them in because the media didn't make a really big deal about it like in the case of James Byrd, Jr. Sad.
A86 2 years ago
just so you know shark, just because you say fact after something it doesn't actually make it a fact...
ender744 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
minorities are dumber than white people. Fact.
shark5643 2 years ago
that's the most ignorant thing i've ever heard. Fact.
oldskoolchomp 2 years ago 10
your a twat!
AlexBlondie92 2 years ago
/facepalm
Amsah 2 years ago
Cenk forgot to tell you guys that Sotomayor NEVER HEARD THIS CASE! She, along with the two other judges on the 2nd Court simply went with the law as currently written. They did NOT make any type of ruling, and that is what makes the Conservative argument an inane one. Cenk, fix yourself on this one.
mozkrew211 2 years ago
What's the test consist of? That matters. Until recently, researchers have used Western intelligence tests to judge the intellect of people from Eastern, Mediterranean, African and Sub-Saharan nations.
People learn things in different ways, and people's approach to knowledge differs on culture.
If that is what the issue is here, then Sotomayor is right.
F33bs 2 years ago 4
My sister mentioned the same thing. The results show that ethnic minorities across the board score lower on multiple choice tests than caucasians and the tests for the firefighters had a significant number of multiple choice questions. If there had been fewer mult. choice or if they had counted less or equal to the overall score that makes a considerable difference.
onomuknub 2 years ago
Racist bullshit. May the best men be promoted, regardless of their color. You can't say no because the color mix wasn't 'right'. It's fucking disgusting.