wow ,really ,is that because its just now affecting you middle class people ,what you think that you are being mistreated ,then fella you dont know how wrong you are ,cause poor peole have been mistreated by the gop and bush for years while you middle class people enjoyed yourself waisting money on fany crap ,well boo who ,suck it ,we did and still doing it
People who were against the bill and protest with "Kill the BILL" signs...were people who had extra cash in there pockets...and racists YES i said Racist...because majority of the Americans who don't have health care are black,Latinos and other minorities and we all know that...Obama made sure he fought for the poor He didn't care that some people were gonna protest and call him a nigger...Hell Bush spended our money on wars and government bail outs!!!..obama ur the best
@Semir313 and obama didn't spend tons on bailouts? check the figures. 24 trillion to the banks, all under obama. do some investigating. obama is not the savior, call me a racist because thats usually the last refuge of a man with no argument. and he hasn't cut military spending either. He pulls 50,000 troops out of iraq, but then deploys 50,000 mercenary contarctors. classic bait and switch. And he expands the patriot act after claiming to be against it. Yea hes the best ever!
@theFEMAcampESCAPEE SO why are u complaining he is your man...lol....but yes I do disagree with Obama on the war I told people millions of times about how stupid the wars were and bailouts he did not spend as much as bush. Still bailouts are wrong the GM bailout made more sense but still that sucks too....but he did do more good then Bush did in 4 years
Netherland & Switzerland, 99% coverage and no public plan, but insurance companies are regulated like utility companies. Taiwan & Singapore have best medical care system in the world, 99% coverage, high quality, NO WAITING, and they are government run with less 5% GDP. Unreasonable premium, preexisting condition exclusion, changing drug formulary, deny treatment, medicare drug GAP for Senior are just plain wrong. Come on my fellow American, let us fix the healthcare for our children sakes!
The people that do not have health ins. Always managed to get treatment in the hospitals that we who have ins paid for. We pay for them.They do not need ins.The reform is better for us that it is for them.
that is not the only problem though, there are other things that need to be addressed adequately, such as if the health-care is good, and if it is financially efficient. Saying NO doesn't mean you dont want affordable health care, it means that you either dont agree with governmental health care OR you dont find it efficient/good.
This is not why the bill is a problem, what you have just stated is the status quo.
The problem is that the good parts do not out way the bad. yes, given that the public option is not involved Americans will pay 50% of their income on healthcare on 2019, if congress does not change anything (some already pay 50%+ to insurance companies).
Cenk, you know very well that there is only so much a politician can do. David axelrod is as liberal as any person in america, so if he could not get the public option in it, it means that it was not possible. America is still a center right country; obviously,liberals don't have the numbers. Anyway, at the end of the day, people will come to acknowledge that this bill is still very good. We are all mad, but anger can only get you so far.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
TheYoungTURDS are complaining now that they voted in thia asshole OBONGO who is in the pocket of big Pharma and Health Insurance industry. How the change working for you???
obama is not writing the bill, the congress does. thanks to the gop, the parts of the bill that made it effective reform are gone. who is in the pocket of big pharma?
hahah obama fuckheads.you thought obama was your buddy,everyone is looking out for their interests.now the companies have more power.they can tell you what colour to shit,when to shit and how how to jump
so without a public option the same few insurance companies get more business and still control what gets paid for. hmmm... sounds like some palms may have been greased for a double whammy! there is big money to be made here for the big guys.
The gist of the ancient Greek argument in regard to election of officials by majority vote was that it was undemocratic and oligarchic and plutocratic because the wealthier and better educated would usually win such elections, partly because of their wealth and also because of their rhetorical training,etc.
The ancient model for the US constitution was the Roman Res Publica--but they fucked that up too by not understanding the Roman balance of powers, nor even actually the different kinds of "power" the Romans used.
Then within fifty years they made it much worse.
Polybius accorded the Roman res publica some "democratic" aspects.
But the writers of US constitution overlooked key elements in both Polybius and the Roman "constitution".
Hey TYT, I've got news for you. Obama hasn't even read this bill. If you bought a house or car, you'd read the fine print. Not Obama and the dems. I've yet to hear one dem. say they read it. Yet THEY VOTED FOR IT??????? You think the bill is weak? Go on MSNBC and challenge your president to atleast read the damn thing!!!
Are you freaking kidding me!!!! What part of this bill do you think conservative like? You're not kidding anybody. If conservitives like this bill then why wouldn't they vote for it? The truth is conservative will not vote for it because it sucks as a bill.
@IPlayWithFire135 Yeah they both are, people are realizing they DEMS & REPS are the same. More war, more spending, same BS. I'm Liberatarian and im loving the collapse of this BS 2 party system. Progressives need to run out of govt.
Ah, but that is where you are wrong, IPlayWithFire135--the US rich are terminally incompetent at moment, very much like the Southern planters and others who led the Confederacy were terminally incompetent--and for very similar reasons.
Hazed - but not out. The difference between then and now is that then the federal government was threatening their interests. Now, the oil companies, big pharm, insurance companies, etc. all have the governments holy blessing. Anything is possible as long as the politicians are in their pocket. Look how much they spend on lobbying. That's why there will be no public option.
Really? Personally I didn't have time to read through 2500 pages but good for you for having done that and providing us with an informed decision. Can you now cram it up your ass?
Ummm....did I say I read it? Sexysadie suggested that congressional members have sent her 2500 pages to skim through. She summed up what she learned from reading through it....I'm just saying I'm shocked that she was able to appreciate the complexity in the bill and all the ramifications it comes with. Kudo's for her!!
No, I'm a snob-nosed armchair revolutionary who has never worked a day in his life. *rolls eyes* The Republicans in government spend a lot more time rolling in dough than "working." If you haven't been in a coma since Reagan you'd know that.
We are all slaves to the criminal organization called the government. The only 2 parties that I see are us vs them. People (the public) are so stupid to call themself republic or democrat. Its all a big scam. Wake up Fools.
We've all seen it. They have now been reduced to 1% of the 2% rich, rednecks,racists,hillbillies, and hicks. There is no COLOR in their party. Minoritiy populations have now exceeded 56% combined with blacks,browns,reds,gays, and lesbians.
Do the math. Republicans are screwed by just the numbers. They have failed to recruit.
dummycraps will be voted out in 2010 and this bill will be reversed. If it's not, it's the end of America for sure. Idiot libs will pay the ultimate price for their stupidity.
We need to remove all RepubliSCUMS, the party of NO and conservative Democrats as they are the problem. They are OWNED by Big Insurance, Big Oil, and Big Business.
There will be limited CHANGE as long as we have these SCUMS as you can see by the health care debate.
Republicans now have zero chance of anything as normal people can see they want to do nothing at all! They are obstructionists. Conservative Democrats are the other problem. We will vote them out and replace them with liberals.
@1911arthur.... you have it all backwards like a typical liberal moron. What'll happen is that patients will die sooner as doctors become more scarce due to lack of incentive to spend 8 years in school. College enrollment will decline in the med field bigtime. Oblama is in the pocket of corporations, owing them Billions. Dums are killing this nation and YOU don't even know it you're such a fool!
It's you who have it backwards. 1st where are you getting your stats? Far as I know, there has NOT been ANY drop in doctors in countries with socialized medicine. Also U.S. doctors are just as fed up with insurance companies as the public is, which is why many are FOR public insurance! Many docs HAVE to overcharge because they don't know how much or WHEN the insurance co. will get around to paying them. If anything, solving the insurance problem will PROVIDE an incentive for becoming a doc.
I solved my family's health care crisis by letting my 8 year old daughter spend a night with the doctor. He said they only played Candy Land, but he apparently enjoyed the game so much that he gives us free visits every time she visits.
At 6:20 he says, "if you pass a bill that corporate American is very happy with and that conservatives are happy with..."
I'd like to correct that statement, this bill, or any healthcare bill is not one that conservatives like; hence the 0 votes it will receive from Republicans. On behalf of the GOP, Id like to thank Democrats for this wonderful Christmas present, and for once again putting political interests ahead of the American people. We look forward to removing you from power in 2010
We wanted Medicare buy-ins for those 55-65. Under the Senate Bill, they will now pay 3 times the premiums to Blue Cross, who is a major rip-off Company.
Thanks, Joe Lieberman you Aetna cronie.
The government will now be paying Blue Cross.
Vote out all Republicans and Conservative Democrats as they have become the problem and are costing workers at the expense of Blue Cross, who they work for, not us.
You seem to have no idea why things in the US work the way they do, nor why democracy is a terrible form of government. Might I suggest a reading of Aristotle;t "Politics".
he went to law school and he's done political talkshows for several years and he doesn't know the difference between a democracy and a republic.. lol..
you paying corporations for health insurance sends your money to a private company. if it were sent to the govt, it would be sent back to you in he form of govt services...the govt isnt a FOR PROFIT entity, like a corporation...its money is diverted back into itself..
corporations can send their money outside the country, the govt cannot. therfor, they cannot outsource work. over 80% of insurance "work" is paper/data, which can be outsourced....the social security office employs americans btw..
@gofudgeyourselfx We can go to any Doctor and schedule a surgery in a few days. We have the best outcomes on all major disease and highest cancer survival rates. We develope the most life saving drugs and advanced medical equipment. The Government (medicare) waste our money and denies you Doctor and Hospital choices, they don't pay for certain life saving drugs and they don't pay all expences. Their reimbursment rates are low causing private care to be high.
What isn't being mentioned in this video is that there is an option in the bill to buy into the same kind of plan that public servants buy into, which is not equivalent to a public option, but is infinitely better and more affordable than dealing with private insurers. Yes, the bill is far from being everything I wanted it to be, but it is certainly better than nothing, and it puts a huge brake on the private insurers' drive to gouge the American public. I think this is a good thing.
I disagree. What would have been worse is to allow the situation to remain as it was, only because of the need some felt to throw a temper tantrum. Politics is the art of compromise. Temper tantrums solve nothing. We get what we can today and build up on what we have tomorrow. Be reasonable.
This bill will collapse the economy. It costs 2+ trillion and we're already 12 trillion in dept so where will we get the money? We have no industry anymore because they were chased out of the country by crazy tax hikes. We'll have to borrow or inflate the dollar. Do you want to see a loaf of bread at $10? Me either, I can barely afford bread as it is. Also, I cant afford healthcare. This bill will force me to pay for something I cant afford or get fined. WTF?!
Bush and Cheney are no longer in office, Silvercity, but the economic and financial catastrophe they engineered, and the foreign policies disasters they presided over, are still going strong--and would be even if Obama--or anyone else in his office--were a genius and made every right move.
At this point Generalissimo El Senor Presidente Obama Da Lie Llama might as well be a piece of furniture insofar as it is politically and economically pertinent.
A credenza, say, or a Harvard chair made in mainland China.
@MyGrassroots people who cant afford it will be subsidized...people who CAN pay it will be paying for your portion untill you can pay for it yourself...
our deficit is 2 trilion, our GDP is over 14 trillion. our deficit is a drop in the bucket compared to the country makes..
you being poor HURTS the government, why would they screw you over?! they need you to sustain them...they need you working...you need you working..
you pay government money, government pay off debt, government share money (stimulus and unemployment checks), people get money, people buy stupid american crap, people work to make more stupid american crap for americans to buy, economy fixed. and in the end, you get health insurance, but instead of paying for a healthy life like its a luxury service, its a tax, like social security.
USD collapsed in August 2008--which all the politicians and many of the official economists are trying to cover up and which all the king's horses and all the king's men can't put together again.
@ everyone. the government option is crucial in this bill. our money needs to go to people who actually care about the people supporting them, not corporations who can pack up and leave...that's why our government is great, they HAVE to stay here with their people...if you buy health insurance from the government, guess where the money goes? roads, schools, jobs in america, our national defense...if you buy from corporations it can go to india, china, wherever they want to spend their fortune.
I don't see any pros to this bill without a public option. I always oppossed the bill because of the vast amount of spending written into the bill. In a recession period this seems dangerous. However without a public option there's no pro to balance this huge con.
You also have to think about the number of people who voted in the poll. Just say 300,000 people voted in this poll, that isn't enough voters to vote to make the poll valid! IT DOESN'T SPEAK FOR ALL AMERICANS!
fuck no i dont have health insurance and i dont wanna be forced to buy insurance. That is the most ridiculous thing i have ever seen. Progressives were in this for improvement not just to get a bill passed.
obama got the national debt up by 2,239,272,and still going up and obama has not even been preds.. for not even a year and Healthcare Reform Bill if forcing people to get Healthcare when people can not even pay for it and if some people can not pay for it then some one else will get even more tax which is bull so yea no for Healthcare Reform Bill .
@Cid0009 hey baby einstein, our GDP is over 14,000,000,000....obama isn't the reason we have a high deficit...hes eye candy and cheerleader in chief, at best.
no on health care? ok so you LIKE this deficit? you want it to stay? OR they could pass health care, the government uses the massive tax hike to pay off the deficit, catapulting the economy into the black, and everyone gets health care coverage to boot..
This is sad Democracy is strongest when it's left and right wings are healthy and strong, in the US the right wing is crazy for jebus, and the left is weak, i fear for the US democracy.
Even if the right is dumb, the left can't just ignore them entirely. I guess when people say the left is weak, they mean believing in democracy is weak.
Well Democracy thrives on compromise but what you do is draw a line and then talk about what you can give up in return, left draws a line then moves it back when right throws a tantrum left in the US has shown no spine. And the right is supposed to encourage freedom and liberty for individual people. In the end both sides end simply servicing Corporate America.
The ancient Greeks, who invented the very idea of "democratic", did not consider election by majority vote "democratic".
They considered it plutocratic or oligarchic.
Why do you think the US, which is a predatory capitalist warfare state, tries to force its version of "democracy" down the throats of unwilling nations around the world?
The Chinese Communists, you will notice, are not buying.
You're confused, the Greeks did consider majority vote democratic, the difference is that "democratic" wasn't necessarily a good thing to them. What we have now is a oligarchy, but historically the US was conceived as an oligarchy - it was founded by a group of wealthy elites who were primarily interested in protecting the interests of themselves and people like them.
Real democracy would be a pretty grand change of pace.
I thought we had a republic? And democracy is the majority of the people vote. The reason why democracy didn't work on it's own is because people tend to make wrong decisions, and have no moral monitors to figure out if their decision would be good in the long term.
A republic is a form of gov't that has a written doctrine on which sets it up (constitution) and has a representative democracy. In theory we are still a republic, but yes, we have become an oligarchy against our will.
Okay, Mr. Scientist. Explain to me what a republic is then. Perhaps an internet search would refresh your memory? And don't tell me it's the absence of a monarch, because that's not good enough.
What the hell are you talking about? Democracy literally means rule of the many in greek. Dem means "people", oli means "few". I can't believe you are this comically arrogant, and yet are trying to tell me that the ancient greeks thought majority rule was oligarchic. That is nonsensical.
What does Strauss have to do with this, and why would you think I'm a fan of Strauss if the only political view I've expressed is a vague populist democratism?
Apparently you do not know what it means because, if you did, you would never translate it the way you did, bjmenz.
The Spartans and Athenians in their respective imperialist phases used two different words in offering "freedom" to various poleis--what were those two words, bjmensx, you slobbering smartass.
Is your beef over the distinction in representation through election here? Because that distinction still doesn't make "the greeks considered democracy oligarchical" any less bewildering unless you start mashing together ancient and modern meanings of those words, and of questionable relevance outside the context of athenian democracy.
But ancient Greek demokratia was direct where it existed.
In fact, some Greek "democratic" states did have election of officials by majority vote as a supplementalmeasure, and it was specially considered undemocratic, and used for a specific reason.
Voting no is a mistake, especially if it's based on polling. Polling doesn't tell you whether voters will act on the preferences and respondents largely don't know what's in the bill. If the Dems fail to pass this bill, it will hurt them even more than when Clinton failed so worrying about 2010 elections is moot.
It is a weakened bill, but it's still better than the status quo. I work in the health industry and see the waste. Voting no gives the GOP what they want - industry in their pocket.
I think you mistaken there is no bill left.... public option is out.... medicare expansion is out? All thats left is this stupid mandate that forces private insurance to pick up everyone. Not only will we pay taxes to cover this insurance premiums will go up. They need to scrap this bill and start over people want healthcare reform but this bill is now garbage
The bill has an exchange that will allow insurance companies to cover across state lines. That creates more competition to hold premiums down. Poorer households will get federal subsidies so it's not regressive. All insurance companies will be required to spend at least 80% of their premiums on delivering care to customers so even if premiums do go up, so does care. Far fewer people will face health care bankruptcies. If the bill does not pass, health care is off the table for a decade.
I'm not reporting what for-profit health insurers do but rather what they would have to do under the new bill. The bill makes them spend at least 80% of premiums on health care instead of advertising and salaries. The bill makes it much harder for them to deny claims and forces them to take all patients regardless of previous condition. Voting no on the bill simply means they get to keep doing what they are now.
The for profit Health insurers bought both sides in this little piece of political theater.
They are getting exactly what they want from the Democrats while trying to give the impression that it is some kind of reform.
The bill is regressive through and through.
What you mention is all bullshit--the for profits still control the risk pool classes and premium rates and also can deny what they want to deny and cancel who they want to cancel.
Thank you Cenk! I've been thinking a lot about this bill too, read the texts that are out there and done some research as well. This is just a disaster. We need a public option, if not even a Medicare buy-in. Yes some things are good, but it's not good enough to pass as it is! We don't want it as you say! I lived in Europe for a year and it's just sad how far they are ahead of us in this arena of social policy. Maybe I should emigrate and marry a Scandinavian... :)
The Dems and the Reps in Congress are on the same side. Neither wants health care reform. I would like to personally thank Barack Obama for spitting in the voters' eyes. This bill is not reform. It's a big wet kiss to the health insurance and pharmaceutical companies. I hope somebody, anybody with a spine left kills this bill. If not, we're fucked and Obama is NOT getting re-elected.
a long issue
isabelvalent 3 months ago
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chestnutlegg 8 months ago
wow ,really ,is that because its just now affecting you middle class people ,what you think that you are being mistreated ,then fella you dont know how wrong you are ,cause poor peole have been mistreated by the gop and bush for years while you middle class people enjoyed yourself waisting money on fany crap ,well boo who ,suck it ,we did and still doing it
whatchaknow100 1 year ago
People who were against the bill and protest with "Kill the BILL" signs...were people who had extra cash in there pockets...and racists YES i said Racist...because majority of the Americans who don't have health care are black,Latinos and other minorities and we all know that...Obama made sure he fought for the poor He didn't care that some people were gonna protest and call him a nigger...Hell Bush spended our money on wars and government bail outs!!!..obama ur the best
Semir313 1 year ago
@Semir313 and obama didn't spend tons on bailouts? check the figures. 24 trillion to the banks, all under obama. do some investigating. obama is not the savior, call me a racist because thats usually the last refuge of a man with no argument. and he hasn't cut military spending either. He pulls 50,000 troops out of iraq, but then deploys 50,000 mercenary contarctors. classic bait and switch. And he expands the patriot act after claiming to be against it. Yea hes the best ever!
theFEMAcampESCAPEE 1 year ago
@theFEMAcampESCAPEE SO why are u complaining he is your man...lol....but yes I do disagree with Obama on the war I told people millions of times about how stupid the wars were and bailouts he did not spend as much as bush. Still bailouts are wrong the GM bailout made more sense but still that sucks too....but he did do more good then Bush did in 4 years
Semir313 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Netherland & Switzerland, 99% coverage and no public plan, but insurance companies are regulated like utility companies. Taiwan & Singapore have best medical care system in the world, 99% coverage, high quality, NO WAITING, and they are government run with less 5% GDP. Unreasonable premium, preexisting condition exclusion, changing drug formulary, deny treatment, medicare drug GAP for Senior are just plain wrong. Come on my fellow American, let us fix the healthcare for our children sakes!
noformstyle 2 years ago
The people that do not have health ins. Always managed to get treatment in the hospitals that we who have ins paid for. We pay for them.They do not need ins.The reform is better for us that it is for them.
AEinsteinSr 2 years ago
I want free market healthcare. Fuck this shit!
TehBigToasterReborn 2 years ago
what people will do for a free band aid. hey liberals, I'll give you a free band aid if you let me make the wound for it first. :D
pearlthirteen 2 years ago
NO to affordable health care!
YES to high insurance CEO pay!
vincevince801 2 years ago 2
that is not the only problem though, there are other things that need to be addressed adequately, such as if the health-care is good, and if it is financially efficient. Saying NO doesn't mean you dont want affordable health care, it means that you either dont agree with governmental health care OR you dont find it efficient/good.
tommy9411 2 years ago
have a referendum already
jerome224224 2 years ago 2
nancey pelosi said you will go to jail
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GovernmentSham912 2 years ago
Cenk is the best
Lekeeon 2 years ago
Medicare for everyone!
SkreetGil 2 years ago
The Dems' are arranging deck chairs on the Titanic...Wake up people...Call your congressman or woman
sjcpal 2 years ago
@sjcpal
On Marketplace this morning: under this bill the average american will spend 50% of there income on healthcare by 2019.
bye bye democrats...
styrofoamheart 2 years ago
@styrofoamheart
This is not why the bill is a problem, what you have just stated is the status quo.
The problem is that the good parts do not out way the bad. yes, given that the public option is not involved Americans will pay 50% of their income on healthcare on 2019, if congress does not change anything (some already pay 50%+ to insurance companies).
Quelthias 2 years ago 2
i get thumbed down every time i say "bye bye democrats." i'm not in favor of the goddamn republican idiots. this bill is just political suicide.
styrofoamheart 2 years ago
What did bush do about it?We said bye bye republicans.
MrTabby5000 2 years ago
I already did, I told them to vote NO on the bill.
LaserDarkDX 2 years ago 2
Cenk, you know very well that there is only so much a politician can do. David axelrod is as liberal as any person in america, so if he could not get the public option in it, it means that it was not possible. America is still a center right country; obviously,liberals don't have the numbers. Anyway, at the end of the day, people will come to acknowledge that this bill is still very good. We are all mad, but anger can only get you so far.
emeka1978 2 years ago
heibin mega aufgewirbelt und ungezogen heute wer mag mit mir schreibn und so
Bonnierectify 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
TheYoungTURDS are complaining now that they voted in thia asshole OBONGO who is in the pocket of big Pharma and Health Insurance industry. How the change working for you???
4sureJT 2 years ago
obama is not writing the bill, the congress does. thanks to the gop, the parts of the bill that made it effective reform are gone. who is in the pocket of big pharma?
avalsonline 2 years ago
coz they are the stupidest motherfuckers on earth in my opinion.u cant choose the lesser of evils,either choose evil or not.
sshapewa 2 years ago
@4sureJT
you probably voted for bush, twice. can we have our budget surplus back? will someone wake president bush up? 2500 people just died in new york.
styrofoamheart 2 years ago
hahah obama fuckheads.you thought obama was your buddy,everyone is looking out for their interests.now the companies have more power.they can tell you what colour to shit,when to shit and how how to jump
sshapewa 2 years ago
So like what country do these for profit Heatlh Insurance executives and Board members hang out in?
Iceland?
mopsius 2 years ago
so without a public option the same few insurance companies get more business and still control what gets paid for. hmmm... sounds like some palms may have been greased for a double whammy! there is big money to be made here for the big guys.
iampoobear 2 years ago
Let me guess--enlistments are up too, HAHAHAHA.
Onward Judaio-Christian soldiers--get Health Insurance for yourself and family in Afghanistan!
mopsius 2 years ago
I mean, Geezus, check out the benefit package the National Guard is offering, hahaha.
mopsius 2 years ago
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mopsius 2 years ago
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mopsius 2 years ago
Nothing at all wrong with requiring that to get a benefit, you have to earn it.
franksnow79 2 years ago
Whatever you say, franlksnow79.
Such a big Anglo-Saxon word--EARN.
mopsius 2 years ago
This bill is weak sauce.
It gets more billions to the Insurance Companies - Lieberman & the other whores got their way.
DillonX 2 years ago
nancy pelosi said you will go to jail if you don't buy insurance!!!!!
youtube it
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SHAMSHAM1090 2 years ago
The gist of the ancient Greek argument in regard to election of officials by majority vote was that it was undemocratic and oligarchic and plutocratic because the wealthier and better educated would usually win such elections, partly because of their wealth and also because of their rhetorical training,etc.
mopsius 2 years ago
Not only the Athenians, but many of the ancient Greeks make Americans doing political science look like naive, clumsy, unreasoning dumbasses.
Which they are.
Particularly American political "scientists" and "philosophers", not even to mention the actual sleazballs who are politicians.
mopsius 2 years ago
The ancient model for the US constitution was the Roman Res Publica--but they fucked that up too by not understanding the Roman balance of powers, nor even actually the different kinds of "power" the Romans used.
Then within fifty years they made it much worse.
Polybius accorded the Roman res publica some "democratic" aspects.
But the writers of US constitution overlooked key elements in both Polybius and the Roman "constitution".
mopsius 2 years ago
Hey TYT, I've got news for you. Obama hasn't even read this bill. If you bought a house or car, you'd read the fine print. Not Obama and the dems. I've yet to hear one dem. say they read it. Yet THEY VOTED FOR IT??????? You think the bill is weak? Go on MSNBC and challenge your president to atleast read the damn thing!!!
veriteez 2 years ago
Are you freaking kidding me!!!! What part of this bill do you think conservative like? You're not kidding anybody. If conservitives like this bill then why wouldn't they vote for it? The truth is conservative will not vote for it because it sucks as a bill.
richarddbeck 2 years ago
I cant tell you the joy i feel when i see the Progressive/Democratic party splitting in half. It is a great xmas gift.
malibuhur12 2 years ago
So is the weakening of the Republican/Conservative party by the tea party "authentic conservative" movement.
IPlayWithFire135 2 years ago
@IPlayWithFire135 Yeah they both are, people are realizing they DEMS & REPS are the same. More war, more spending, same BS. I'm Liberatarian and im loving the collapse of this BS 2 party system. Progressives need to run out of govt.
malibuhur12 2 years ago
Of course they're the same, they make up our modern oligarchy. It'll never completely collapse, they'll solve it, the rich aren't stupid.
IPlayWithFire135 2 years ago
Ah, but that is where you are wrong, IPlayWithFire135--the US rich are terminally incompetent at moment, very much like the Southern planters and others who led the Confederacy were terminally incompetent--and for very similar reasons.
mopsius 2 years ago
Hazed - but not out. The difference between then and now is that then the federal government was threatening their interests. Now, the oil companies, big pharm, insurance companies, etc. all have the governments holy blessing. Anything is possible as long as the politicians are in their pocket. Look how much they spend on lobbying. That's why there will be no public option.
IPlayWithFire135 2 years ago
"Capitalists always buy any state that is buyable."
EAC
mopsius 2 years ago
Uri Avery just wrote an important essay on the parallels between the Prussian state and the "state of Israel", IPlayWithFire135.
Not complete by a longshot and missing some key ingredients and aspects but still incisive.
mopsius 2 years ago
The bill is tragic. It's a farce of genuine healthcare reform.
sexysadie1977 2 years ago
Really? Personally I didn't have time to read through 2500 pages but good for you for having done that and providing us with an informed decision. Can you now cram it up your ass?
Rata4You 2 years ago
the fact that you can't read the bill yourself shows you have no right even posting about it. Go slap your mother for giving birth to an idiot.
yerallmorons 2 years ago
Ummm....did I say I read it? Sexysadie suggested that congressional members have sent her 2500 pages to skim through. She summed up what she learned from reading through it....I'm just saying I'm shocked that she was able to appreciate the complexity in the bill and all the ramifications it comes with. Kudo's for her!!
Rata4You 2 years ago
Since you are a neo con and don't know from funny....I was being sarcastic, dip shit. LOL
Rata4You 2 years ago
easy after a hards day work...you know what work is?
PatricksTime 2 years ago
No, I'm a snob-nosed armchair revolutionary who has never worked a day in his life. *rolls eyes* The Republicans in government spend a lot more time rolling in dough than "working." If you haven't been in a coma since Reagan you'd know that.
IPlayWithFire135 2 years ago
obama is weak!
i was anti obama before it was cool
PatricksTime 2 years ago
We are all slaves to the criminal organization called the government. The only 2 parties that I see are us vs them. People (the public) are so stupid to call themself republic or democrat. Its all a big scam. Wake up Fools.
Snitzky666 2 years ago 2
Republicans will pay for being the party of NO.
We've all seen it. They have now been reduced to 1% of the 2% rich, rednecks,racists,hillbillies, and hicks. There is no COLOR in their party. Minoritiy populations have now exceeded 56% combined with blacks,browns,reds,gays, and lesbians.
Do the math. Republicans are screwed by just the numbers. They have failed to recruit.
1911arthur 2 years ago
The Right Wing has to be liquidated, as a bad asset is liquidated.
mopsius 2 years ago
Fuck Obama.
Obama in 2012.
mopsius 2 years ago
Doctors are the problem. They charge $25,000 to fix a broken leg. They are also obscene.
We need price controls on these rip-off artists as well.
1911arthur 2 years ago
No price controls will not work.
There are other solutions there that are preferable.
The gist of the matter is that medicine is not a business by definition.
mopsius 2 years ago
dummycraps will be voted out in 2010 and this bill will be reversed. If it's not, it's the end of America for sure. Idiot libs will pay the ultimate price for their stupidity.
Zile77 2 years ago
We need to remove all RepubliSCUMS, the party of NO and conservative Democrats as they are the problem. They are OWNED by Big Insurance, Big Oil, and Big Business.
There will be limited CHANGE as long as we have these SCUMS as you can see by the health care debate.
Republicans now have zero chance of anything as normal people can see they want to do nothing at all! They are obstructionists. Conservative Democrats are the other problem. We will vote them out and replace them with liberals.
1911arthur 2 years ago
@1911arthur.... you have it all backwards like a typical liberal moron. What'll happen is that patients will die sooner as doctors become more scarce due to lack of incentive to spend 8 years in school. College enrollment will decline in the med field bigtime. Oblama is in the pocket of corporations, owing them Billions. Dums are killing this nation and YOU don't even know it you're such a fool!
Zile77 2 years ago
Actually, Zile77, several statistical studies esablish quite clearly that when US physicians go on strike, death rates drop.
That is partly because one fifth of all deaths under care in the US are iatrogenically caused--that is, the result of medico and hospital l fuck-ups.
In fact US capitalist medicine is among the worst in the world.
mopsius 2 years ago
It's you who have it backwards. 1st where are you getting your stats? Far as I know, there has NOT been ANY drop in doctors in countries with socialized medicine. Also U.S. doctors are just as fed up with insurance companies as the public is, which is why many are FOR public insurance! Many docs HAVE to overcharge because they don't know how much or WHEN the insurance co. will get around to paying them. If anything, solving the insurance problem will PROVIDE an incentive for becoming a doc.
ChildofBrando 2 years ago
@ChildofBrando
I solved my family's health care crisis by letting my 8 year old daughter spend a night with the doctor. He said they only played Candy Land, but he apparently enjoyed the game so much that he gives us free visits every time she visits.
SCORE!!!
ZmickTrick 2 years ago
At 6:20 he says, "if you pass a bill that corporate American is very happy with and that conservatives are happy with..."
I'd like to correct that statement, this bill, or any healthcare bill is not one that conservatives like; hence the 0 votes it will receive from Republicans. On behalf of the GOP, Id like to thank Democrats for this wonderful Christmas present, and for once again putting political interests ahead of the American people. We look forward to removing you from power in 2010
Rupert5432 2 years ago
bla bla bla just cram it thru and own it. just like the cap and trade garbage.
3goals4bonzai 2 years ago
We wanted Medicare buy-ins for those 55-65. Under the Senate Bill, they will now pay 3 times the premiums to Blue Cross, who is a major rip-off Company.
Thanks, Joe Lieberman you Aetna cronie.
The government will now be paying Blue Cross.
Vote out all Republicans and Conservative Democrats as they have become the problem and are costing workers at the expense of Blue Cross, who they work for, not us.
They are SCUM.
1911arthur 2 years ago
Those people who go on the internet & argue we are republic & not a democracy are idiots who need to consult any dictionary.
Every President has said we live in a democracy & yes -- you can call it a democratic republic if you insist on getting the republic part in there.
DillonX 2 years ago
When is the last time everyone in the United States who could vote, voted on anything. Most people don't care enough to vote.
Silveracity 2 years ago
You seem to have no idea why things in the US work the way they do, nor why democracy is a terrible form of government. Might I suggest a reading of Aristotle;t "Politics".
franksnow79 2 years ago
Its a democratic republic
GraveDancer14 2 years ago
he went to law school and he's done political talkshows for several years and he doesn't know the difference between a democracy and a republic.. lol..
spyletu 2 years ago
you paying corporations for health insurance sends your money to a private company. if it were sent to the govt, it would be sent back to you in he form of govt services...the govt isnt a FOR PROFIT entity, like a corporation...its money is diverted back into itself..
corporations can send their money outside the country, the govt cannot. therfor, they cannot outsource work. over 80% of insurance "work" is paper/data, which can be outsourced....the social security office employs americans btw..
gofudgeyourselfx 2 years ago
@gofudgeyourselfx We can go to any Doctor and schedule a surgery in a few days. We have the best outcomes on all major disease and highest cancer survival rates. We develope the most life saving drugs and advanced medical equipment. The Government (medicare) waste our money and denies you Doctor and Hospital choices, they don't pay for certain life saving drugs and they don't pay all expences. Their reimbursment rates are low causing private care to be high.
quizerry 2 years ago
What isn't being mentioned in this video is that there is an option in the bill to buy into the same kind of plan that public servants buy into, which is not equivalent to a public option, but is infinitely better and more affordable than dealing with private insurers. Yes, the bill is far from being everything I wanted it to be, but it is certainly better than nothing, and it puts a huge brake on the private insurers' drive to gouge the American public. I think this is a good thing.
armyveteran101st 2 years ago
No, it is much worse than nothing.
mopsius 2 years ago
I disagree. What would have been worse is to allow the situation to remain as it was, only because of the need some felt to throw a temper tantrum. Politics is the art of compromise. Temper tantrums solve nothing. We get what we can today and build up on what we have tomorrow. Be reasonable.
armyveteran101st 2 years ago
This bill will collapse the economy. It costs 2+ trillion and we're already 12 trillion in dept so where will we get the money? We have no industry anymore because they were chased out of the country by crazy tax hikes. We'll have to borrow or inflate the dollar. Do you want to see a loaf of bread at $10? Me either, I can barely afford bread as it is. Also, I cant afford healthcare. This bill will force me to pay for something I cant afford or get fined. WTF?!
MyGrassroots 2 years ago
It's called Finance Capitalism--the last monopolistic and imperialist stage of Capitalism.
Bush and Cheney took the US right off a cliff.
Have a nice day.
mopsius 2 years ago
Did you know that Bush and Cheney are gone and Obama is president?
Silveracity 2 years ago
Bush and Cheney are no longer in office, Silvercity, but the economic and financial catastrophe they engineered, and the foreign policies disasters they presided over, are still going strong--and would be even if Obama--or anyone else in his office--were a genius and made every right move.
mopsius 2 years ago
As far as Obama making the "right move"
Couldn't Obama order all U.S. forces out of Iraq and Afghanistan?
Couldnt Obama say NO, to more bailouts of big business?
Doesn't it bother you that Obama is continuing the policies of Bush and Cheney?
What Change as Obama made?
Silveracity 2 years ago 2
Sure--agree absolutely, Silvercity.
Fuck Obama.
Obama in 2012.
mopsius 2 years ago
What is it you like about Obama?
Just trying to understand.
Silveracity 2 years ago
What does "like" have to do with it, Silveracity?
At this point Generalissimo El Senor Presidente Obama Da Lie Llama might as well be a piece of furniture insofar as it is politically and economically pertinent.
A credenza, say, or a Harvard chair made in mainland China.
mopsius 2 years ago
@MyGrassroots people who cant afford it will be subsidized...people who CAN pay it will be paying for your portion untill you can pay for it yourself...
our deficit is 2 trilion, our GDP is over 14 trillion. our deficit is a drop in the bucket compared to the country makes..
you being poor HURTS the government, why would they screw you over?! they need you to sustain them...they need you working...you need you working..
gofudgeyourselfx 2 years ago
you pay government money, government pay off debt, government share money (stimulus and unemployment checks), people get money, people buy stupid american crap, people work to make more stupid american crap for americans to buy, economy fixed. and in the end, you get health insurance, but instead of paying for a healthy life like its a luxury service, its a tax, like social security.
THIS IS WHAT REDISTRIBUTING WEALTH MEANS!
THE FED SPENDS MONEY NOT OBAMA!
read a f**king book, holy sh**.
gofudgeyourselfx 2 years ago
By the way this is much more than a recession.
USD collapsed in August 2008--which all the politicians and many of the official economists are trying to cover up and which all the king's horses and all the king's men can't put together again.
mopsius 2 years ago
@ everyone. the government option is crucial in this bill. our money needs to go to people who actually care about the people supporting them, not corporations who can pack up and leave...that's why our government is great, they HAVE to stay here with their people...if you buy health insurance from the government, guess where the money goes? roads, schools, jobs in america, our national defense...if you buy from corporations it can go to india, china, wherever they want to spend their fortune.
gofudgeyourselfx 2 years ago
I don't see any pros to this bill without a public option. I always oppossed the bill because of the vast amount of spending written into the bill. In a recession period this seems dangerous. However without a public option there's no pro to balance this huge con.
imalive91 2 years ago
You also have to think about the number of people who voted in the poll. Just say 300,000 people voted in this poll, that isn't enough voters to vote to make the poll valid! IT DOESN'T SPEAK FOR ALL AMERICANS!
dadreamzworld 2 years ago
The number of people in a poll means almost nothing. How the poll is statistically designed and executed is what counts.
I know nothing specific about this poll.
Obama is fucked without the Progressives.
mopsius 2 years ago 2
Kucinich threw his support to Obama.
When he heard Obama's health insurance speech, he publicly called it empty air.
He was right on the nose.
mopsius 2 years ago 2
Oh ok...
dadreamzworld 2 years ago
we need to ditch reid and kill the filibuster asap!!!!!
Matisaro 2 years ago
How fucking popular is no bill at all, we liberals need to realize that we are making the situation worse by attacking our leaders on this.
Matisaro 2 years ago
Fuck you "liberals"--you liberals are Corporate Fascist Imperialists or bought off.
Better starting moving left quick or you are fucked.
Obama looks more and more like LBJ every day.
mopsius 2 years ago
The US is a predatory Capitalist warfare state.
The US is Communism for the rich, Captialism for the poor.
The US is from each according to need, to each according to excess.
mopsius 2 years ago
fuck no i dont have health insurance and i dont wanna be forced to buy insurance. That is the most ridiculous thing i have ever seen. Progressives were in this for improvement not just to get a bill passed.
qualityrkc 2 years ago 3
Hear, hear, qualityrkc.
The whole little drama is a bad joke.
mopsius 2 years ago
Obama needs the Progressives much more than the Progressives need Bush Lite.
mopsius 2 years ago
obama got the national debt up by 2,239,272,and still going up and obama has not even been preds.. for not even a year and Healthcare Reform Bill if forcing people to get Healthcare when people can not even pay for it and if some people can not pay for it then some one else will get even more tax which is bull so yea no for Healthcare Reform Bill .
Cid0009 2 years ago
@Cid0009 hey baby einstein, our GDP is over 14,000,000,000....obama isn't the reason we have a high deficit...hes eye candy and cheerleader in chief, at best.
no on health care? ok so you LIKE this deficit? you want it to stay? OR they could pass health care, the government uses the massive tax hike to pay off the deficit, catapulting the economy into the black, and everyone gets health care coverage to boot..
not like you're able to vote on it anyway XD
gofudgeyourselfx 2 years ago
@Cid0009 also, i think you meant 2,000,000,000...left off a few zeros there...
gofudgeyourselfx 2 years ago
The amount Obama has spent is irrelevant. He has spent it on the wrong things.
Bush and Cheney had already bankrupted the US, far beyond anything Obama has done.
Obama has not been very bright but he inherited a huge mess.
Continuing in Afghanistan is insanity.
mopsius 2 years ago
We need THE PUBLIC OPTION to cut costs!!
DillonX 2 years ago 2
Kucinich's plan is well thought out--it will actually help the economy.
mopsius 2 years ago
The US is one step away from Weimar at the moment.
mopsius 2 years ago
This is sad Democracy is strongest when it's left and right wings are healthy and strong, in the US the right wing is crazy for jebus, and the left is weak, i fear for the US democracy.
whydid666 2 years ago
Even if the right is dumb, the left can't just ignore them entirely. I guess when people say the left is weak, they mean believing in democracy is weak.
ruckenfigur 2 years ago
Well Democracy thrives on compromise but what you do is draw a line and then talk about what you can give up in return, left draws a line then moves it back when right throws a tantrum left in the US has shown no spine. And the right is supposed to encourage freedom and liberty for individual people. In the end both sides end simply servicing Corporate America.
whydid666 2 years ago
so at the end of the day, everyone's okay that capitalism trumps morality
ruckenfigur 2 years ago
Indeed, the trouble starts when capitalism trumps eating.
Which point is on the way.
mopsius 2 years ago
US-style "Democracy" is strictly a tool of Capitalism and plutocracy.
Haven't you figured that out yet, whydidd666?
mopsius 2 years ago
With a few exceptions the Democrats are either Corporate Fascist Imperialists, bought off, or both.
For all that they have a useful role to play, namely, liquidating the Right Wing, as a bad asset is liquidated.
Fuck Obama.
Obama in 2012.
mopsius 2 years ago
The ancient Greeks, who invented the very idea of "democratic", did not consider election by majority vote "democratic".
They considered it plutocratic or oligarchic.
Why do you think the US, which is a predatory capitalist warfare state, tries to force its version of "democracy" down the throats of unwilling nations around the world?
The Chinese Communists, you will notice, are not buying.
mopsius 2 years ago
You're confused, the Greeks did consider majority vote democratic, the difference is that "democratic" wasn't necessarily a good thing to them. What we have now is a oligarchy, but historically the US was conceived as an oligarchy - it was founded by a group of wealthy elites who were primarily interested in protecting the interests of themselves and people like them.
Real democracy would be a pretty grand change of pace.
bjmensz 2 years ago
I thought we had a republic? And democracy is the majority of the people vote. The reason why democracy didn't work on it's own is because people tend to make wrong decisions, and have no moral monitors to figure out if their decision would be good in the long term.
A republic is a form of gov't that has a written doctrine on which sets it up (constitution) and has a representative democracy. In theory we are still a republic, but yes, we have become an oligarchy against our will.
MLadyAzzera 2 years ago
That is not what a "republic" is, MLadyAzzera.
mopsius 2 years ago
Okay, Mr. Scientist. Explain to me what a republic is then. Perhaps an internet search would refresh your memory? And don't tell me it's the absence of a monarch, because that's not good enough.
MLadyAzzera 2 years ago
You are shit out of luck, milady. You are also a smartass and ignoramus at the same time. Very American indeed.
mopsius 2 years ago
You have your head up your ass, bjemenz. One would give you a reading list but you are clearly illiterate.
Election by "majority vote" was considered oligarchic and plutocratic by the ancient Greeks.
You know nothing about ancient Greeks obviously.
A Straussian, are we?
mopsius 2 years ago
What the hell are you talking about? Democracy literally means rule of the many in greek. Dem means "people", oli means "few". I can't believe you are this comically arrogant, and yet are trying to tell me that the ancient greeks thought majority rule was oligarchic. That is nonsensical.
What does Strauss have to do with this, and why would you think I'm a fan of Strauss if the only political view I've expressed is a vague populist democratism?
You're a weird dude.
bjmensz 2 years ago
"Demokratia" does not mean "rule of the many" in ancient Greek, bjmenz.
Not was election by majority vote considered "democratic" for many clearly stated and still sound reasons.
You are an ignoramus and you compound your ignorance.
Must be a Straussian or a Neo-Con all right.
mopsius 2 years ago
Nor was election....
mopsius 2 years ago
Please mopsius, translate demokratia for me.
bjmensz 2 years ago
Do a little work, bjmenz.
You might be surprised by the results.
mopsius 2 years ago
Oh I know what it means, I'm just curious how a fascist like yourself would define it.
bjmensz 2 years ago
Apparently you do not know what it means because, if you did, you would never translate it the way you did, bjmenz.
The Spartans and Athenians in their respective imperialist phases used two different words in offering "freedom" to various poleis--what were those two words, bjmensx, you slobbering smartass.
mopsius 2 years ago
Leo Strauss' "Political Philosophy"--what a heap of absolute sophistry and trash, by a Zionist and NAZI sympathizer both to boot.
mopsius 2 years ago
Is your beef over the distinction in representation through election here? Because that distinction still doesn't make "the greeks considered democracy oligarchical" any less bewildering unless you start mashing together ancient and modern meanings of those words, and of questionable relevance outside the context of athenian democracy.
bjmensz 2 years ago
No. You err in what mopsius said you err in.
But ancient Greek demokratia was direct where it existed.
In fact, some Greek "democratic" states did have election of officials by majority vote as a supplementalmeasure, and it was specially considered undemocratic, and used for a specific reason.
mopsius 2 years ago
You are unfamiliar with Greek history and politics--bjmenz, but at least you have begun to think.
mopsius 2 years ago
WTF, CENK.....the bill has a FUCKing public option!! -___-....what the fuck happened to you!?!?!?!?
fesseba321 2 years ago
go kiss your Corporatist Fascist Imperialist Democrat ass, fesseba321,
With a few exceptions they are almost as bad as the Republicans.
mopsius 2 years ago
For profit Health Insurance has to be disconneted from life support.
It is much too expensive.
mopsius 2 years ago
The US is still behind Bismarck's Germany.
mopsius 2 years ago 2
Every day is an illumination, particularly for Europeans, aboutu how dumb and docile the population of the US is.
It almost boggles the mind.
Isolated, hysterical, lazy, without culture or intelelct and thoroughly uneducated, docile and dumb to boot.
The 60's must have been an anomaly.
Well, it is land of P.T. Barnum, isn't it?
mopsius 2 years ago
What the US needs is a good five cent Bolshevik Party.
No nonsense, no compromise, no debate--strictly business.
BANG BANG.
mopsius 2 years ago
The US is bankrupt.
USD is no longer the world reserve currency.
The US real economy has been subverted and hollowed out by the Finance Capitalists for more than forty years.
There's nothing left to argue over or debate.
BANG BANG.
mopsius 2 years ago
america has a communist party
they received about 7,000 votes in the last election
"BANG BANG"
Ironzealot7531 2 years ago
Ironzealot--that is not a "Communist Party" but it is nice that you think it is.
You don't even know where to look.
Your "BANG BANG" was expected and is already programmed in,.
mopsius 2 years ago
In fact, Ironzealot7531, the sooner you and yours go BANG BANG the better.
Please start your Right Wing "revolution" now.
Pretty please.
mopsius 2 years ago
The US is over with in the present form.
The only real question is how much blood.
The Right Wing seems to want a lot of it.
So be it.
mopsius 2 years ago
wow....
seek help my friend
Ironzealot7531 2 years ago
More likely the reverse.
Have a nice day.
mopsius 2 years ago
Onward Judaeo-Christian soldiers! For Israel!
HAHAHAHA.
mopsius 2 years ago
exactly!!!!
ROBiNATORRR 2 years ago
Voting no is a mistake, especially if it's based on polling. Polling doesn't tell you whether voters will act on the preferences and respondents largely don't know what's in the bill. If the Dems fail to pass this bill, it will hurt them even more than when Clinton failed so worrying about 2010 elections is moot.
It is a weakened bill, but it's still better than the status quo. I work in the health industry and see the waste. Voting no gives the GOP what they want - industry in their pocket.
zvelf 2 years ago
I think you mistaken there is no bill left.... public option is out.... medicare expansion is out? All thats left is this stupid mandate that forces private insurance to pick up everyone. Not only will we pay taxes to cover this insurance premiums will go up. They need to scrap this bill and start over people want healthcare reform but this bill is now garbage
gjbarron41 2 years ago
The present bill is completely regressive.
It is a botch from beginning to end.
The Democrats are committing suicide.
So be it.
The US will eventually have public non-profit health insurance as all other industrialized countries.
If there is a US.
Anyway, the Left should introduce a special amendment that death by firing squad is a pre-existing condition.
mopsius 2 years ago
The bill has an exchange that will allow insurance companies to cover across state lines. That creates more competition to hold premiums down. Poorer households will get federal subsidies so it's not regressive. All insurance companies will be required to spend at least 80% of their premiums on delivering care to customers so even if premiums do go up, so does care. Far fewer people will face health care bankruptcies. If the bill does not pass, health care is off the table for a decade.
zvelf 2 years ago
You are strictly spewing bullshit, zvelf.
The for profit Health Insurers spend one third of premiums on advertising and executive salaries.
That alone is more than $700 billion a year.
They also control both the risk pool classes and premium structure to minimize risk and coverage.
They then deny one fifth of all claims and by various means deny coverage to their insured, legally and illegally.
They sell vaporware in essence.
mopsius 2 years ago
I'm not reporting what for-profit health insurers do but rather what they would have to do under the new bill. The bill makes them spend at least 80% of premiums on health care instead of advertising and salaries. The bill makes it much harder for them to deny claims and forces them to take all patients regardless of previous condition. Voting no on the bill simply means they get to keep doing what they are now.
zvelf 2 years ago
The for profit Health insurers bought both sides in this little piece of political theater.
They are getting exactly what they want from the Democrats while trying to give the impression that it is some kind of reform.
The bill is regressive through and through.
What you mention is all bullshit--the for profits still control the risk pool classes and premium rates and also can deny what they want to deny and cancel who they want to cancel.
mopsius 2 years ago
Hey, hey President Obama
how many people are dying in this drama?
mopsius 2 years ago
Any particiaption by for profit health insurers, and especially mandating that anyone buy it, is, is by definition regressive.
In fact is is much worse than that--it is Hyper-Capitalist and monopolistic in the extreme.
Shove your Corporate Fascist Health coverage and your Fascist Corporate Democrat "reform" up your slobbering moronic ass.
mopsius 2 years ago
Thank you Cenk! I've been thinking a lot about this bill too, read the texts that are out there and done some research as well. This is just a disaster. We need a public option, if not even a Medicare buy-in. Yes some things are good, but it's not good enough to pass as it is! We don't want it as you say! I lived in Europe for a year and it's just sad how far they are ahead of us in this arena of social policy. Maybe I should emigrate and marry a Scandinavian... :)
ralf5387 2 years ago
The Dems and the Reps in Congress are on the same side. Neither wants health care reform. I would like to personally thank Barack Obama for spitting in the voters' eyes. This bill is not reform. It's a big wet kiss to the health insurance and pharmaceutical companies. I hope somebody, anybody with a spine left kills this bill. If not, we're fucked and Obama is NOT getting re-elected.
Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.
johnny718bravo 2 years ago
The Republicans already committed suicide with Bush and Cheney.
The Democrats are now committing suicide with this health insurance botch and continued war.
mopsius 2 years ago
One third of all premiums to for profit Health Insurers goes to advertising and executive salaries.
That alone is over $700 billion a year.
mopsius 2 years ago