what if youre idea of satanism is the source of all god reality,the understanding of our relationship with the universe being god and the system of manipulating our connection is the devil or a corruption of this connection and dogma has alienated us until we are returning to this god conciousness but in a way that can be marketed as cool and still under the marketable control of those who isolated this truth in the thirst place????
@zzerko1 "Thirst place"? LOL I put my panentheism into occult Wicca, which comes with a predisposition against monopoly capitalism as well as patriarchal monotheistic institutions, which gets back to opposition to bad environmental stuff that has come of all of that, so my conscience is clean with it. The thinking comes with an implied political & social agenda counter to the prevailing system. Meanwhile the Internet itself acts as a kind of wild card in marketing. Anybody can jump in.
Please make sure you know where you will spend eternity. The bible says "But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur (Rev. 21:8). We have broken God's commandments and we are destined for wrath. Jesus died so we wouldn't have to be condemned to hell. We MUST repent of our sins against a Holy God, and trust Jesus to be our Lord and Savior.
Religious Satanism is bound to fall into self-contradiction and even become amorphous, even tothe point of absurdity; Theistic satanism is such a spectrum, often times a Satanist can be swept along on a tide of definitions, which fall fail and rise again. You demand too much of a Theist [Satanist[; an excellent roduction, and reasoned words, professionally deleivered.
@TheUFOchemtrails I'm not so sure I follow what you're saying. Personally my honest impression is Satan is Venus' deity, but that doesn't convince me the deity is not self-created. People have subjective faith-based experiences that accept a theistic framework, but it leaves the rest of us unconvinced that the experiences necessarily substantiate theism itself one way or another.
I've never known Venus to justify her beliefs any other way than inner experience.
@JamesNealFox True, perhaps the term 'Theistic Satanism' is her way of expressing that she came out of a somewhat Christian belief system (ultimately created by none other than Satan, a man-made god) and this means that Satan is simply a man-made expression of the self fully embodied in knowledge and wisdom? Didn't pagan Christianity create Lucifer and Satan anyway? lol
@TheUFOchemtrails Yeah, I'd say so. Venus acknowledges that the church went about demonizing pagan gods & co-opting various names for gods to label as one demon's name or another. She acknowledges the word itself, "Satan", is biblical and that the church's rampant use of the name at one point was plainly progagandistic. She even acknowledges that Satan changes as the concept changes, so how this is anything but an unconscious psychic process best made conscious?
@JamesNealFox Hmm, interesting fun discussion we got going here:)....my viewpoint on how we make an Un-conscious psychic process could perhaps be nearly everything we do as humans anyway-- programming, media brainwashing, religion, music-- all Sub' and some very Unconscious creations going on simultaneously.
And perhaps the word "Theist" is being used to express the Theory of God within Satanism as well as the many pagan gods created from those theories. Something to ponder--
@TheUFOchemtrails Well, I have pondered it, but it never comes to acxtual deities indpendent of the personal or mass psyche, so it couldn't be called theism. Thought forms are probably an hourly occurence in people unconsciously painting themselves in one corner or another, but even the most advanced and quasi self-aware thought form is still a form of psychic artificial intelligence.
Hardly the supreme ruler that Venus describes Satan as being.
Wow! You people really are confused! I guess I should thank you because if it wasn't for people like you,I wouldn't realize how much worse life could be.
@lute760 Well, gosh, Lute, why don't you come on up front & center & let us all in on just specifically confused we are, why don't ya? I'm sure we'll all be stunned by your keen insight and all your concise answers. I sense real genius here, and real genius doesn't hesitate to express, explain & enlighten.
tony71978 seems to think my video is an "attack". I don't get it with how defensive a minority of trolls get with this neighborly video. I have no idea what or who they think they are protecting with their remarks.
I doubt they understood what was said, why it was said or even understand someone talking civilly about some subject or other.
@JamesNealFox Honestly, although I agree with you and admittedly never saw any of your other videos, I suspect some people consider this an attack because your tone and way of speaking can seem a bit condescending. Of course you might just talk like that, I have no idea. I like Venus Satanas videos a lot but I too have wondered why She chooses the word Theist. I will be looking at your videos as I consider my own view as more Panentheist than most other descriptions I've come to know.
@TheEidolon7 "Condescending" has only come up once before on this page from someone who really seemed pretty far gone, & Venus herself (when I mentioned the guy's animosity) said she would as soon I removed his comment (even though I'm not sure she ever actually read it). I think the bottom line is Venus took the video without offense & later even left some positive remarks on a couple of my vids.
@JamesNealFox I have now seen more of your videos, which I greatly enjoy and appreciate. Your way of expressing yourself remains consistent and I do not believe you are being condescending. Hopefully people will explore your channel before judging. You present very good information and ideas.
@JamesNealFox the real content and you can ALWAYS argue about usage of words or presentation of an idea, because there is no way to put it in perfect words. And for everyone of us, that all looks a bit different. You certainly know what I'm talking about. You can present your understanding of the world for months and it still will be imperfect representation of the real content that is in you - the understanding that goes beyond any words.
Ups, I started rambling :P. I'll better finish here.
@zalbarath666 Well, you should have replied to your own replies to get your remarks in proper sequence. You did for most of them, but, well . . .
I know you probably don't mean to put it all on me, not entirely anyway, and I do know what you're getting at, but it was for Venus to say where she's at, and I can't think to say anything more in reply to your points except that I allowed for your perspective and expected a response of your sort, but it never happened.
@JamesNealFox I thought I did replay to my posts to keep the discussion line. But the way comments on youtube are presented, is puzzling at least.
Nevermind.
You are right to say that it's up to her to answer. I just wanted to add (and probably did too extensively then it is proper ;P) my thoughts on that. Youtube is hardly proper space to discuss that.
Visit venu's IRC chatroom if you want to talk it through more freely.
@JamesNealFox. You simply must give us credit, that there is much more depth to it then visible on the site.
Basically by trying to discuss this topic in this vid, you clung on the surface from wrong attachment point.
What I'm trying to say is, that Venus is aware of the complexity of the topic but putting your questions like that, it's kinda hard to answer directly, cos your points are missing the real content, because...
@JamesNealFox. ... If I would discuss all topics in details.
Other example: doing theurgy magick, we invoke gods as if they were the source of the power and desired change. But pantheists usually understands that it is just an approach of a mind that eases the resistance, because ultimately, we are the only source of creation in our life and so called gods, are mind constructs (but still real entities nonetheless - another complex topic) that help us in that. Continuing...
I also call myself theistic satanist, while being pantheistic. I just take "theism" in a much broader sense, meaning believing in a spiritual, wider reality (and also having some ideas on concept of god, although sometimes completely different from abrahamic standards), as opposite to atheists who are focused solely on material aspect of life. In other words, pantheism is also theism and it doesn't always imply believing in superior, distinct god like in Christianity.
@zalbarath666 While pantheism and panentheism could be said to be branches of theism, the usual convention with such terms in the English-speaking world implies a supreme interventionist deity, almost always Yaweh-Allah-Whatever. My sense of Venus' use of the term was that Satan is an independent supernatural intelligence, a matter of simply displacing the father god with the rebel god and counting certain subjective inner experiences as the basis for her belief.
Many Internet users are non native English speakers (like me) so usual conventions are not the best guideline, especially when we talk about Satanism which is extremely differentiated.
I know Venus from many chats on IRC and I found that we share many similar views and we both IMO could be called pantheists or panetheists (slightly different definitions but in practice it doesn't matter), which are in itself very broad terms and people's beliefs within this terminology varies.
Besides, most of people I talked online (and I talked to many) take "theism" as general term having nothing to do with abrahamic views, so your assumption is for me somewhat surprising and even unusual, although you see it as typical.
Theistic Satanism is nowadays very broadly and often used term and in my experience, in most cases it has very little to do with abrahamic approach.
@zalbarath666 Well, you might want to check out Venus' comments on this page in answer to the video. I can only go by her own response.
In her talks Venus has talked about Satan as an interventionist deity on more than one occasion--interventionist in the sense that he can be negotiated with to satisfy some personal end. I made my video because she can indeed sound like she's on both sides of the question, & so I was curious.
@JamesNealFox Yes, I also can't speak for her but from my experience it's a complicated topic. Because majority understands deities in 'interventionistic' way, the same language is commonly used by many. I also sometimes express myself in these terms if talking to wider, non oriented public. Pantheistic understanding of the world is usually extremely complex and allows for seeing things from many perspectives.
Continuing...
(Again, this box is too small for the whole comment :(. )
@JamesNealFox. Anyway, that what one presents outside and that what you meet when talking months long with deeper understanding of the topic, it's completely different thing.
For example, I may say "Satan wants...", thinking rather: "this is what I want and Satan as the divine part of me, divine inspiration, supports all my desires, because divine is not choosing for us, it chooses WITH us - it's still too complex topic to put it here".
I or anybody, would go nowhere I would discuss... contin.
One Cannot Be the Beginning and The End. If The First Is Indeed The Last. That Would Make The Last, First. The Right, The Left. The Yang, Yin. Morally Correct, Morally Incorrect. and so on...
@metallicorpse Well, the more speculative end of physics ponders the possibility of a beginning to time, which is paradoxical, I think. The source of time would have to be in itself timeless without any beginning, any middle, any end, no before, no during, no after; soooooo in a multidimensional universe how could the beginning, at bottom, be anything but one & the same with the end?
What is time? If that's imponderable then what's imponderable remains an open question.
To manfred6475 I would be tempted to say, "That's OK, I don't have any idea what you're saying,either." But, having gone to his page & checked out his other comments to other people that he assumes are Satanists it's clear English is his second language, & I don't make fun of people when it's a language barrier thing.
To the comment by mr79silson below it was not my intent to rip holes in someone's logic. I was perplexed by Venus' position and thought I'd share my own to put my perplexity in context.
I didn't get very well the stuff about the mirrors (my bad english) but this what I got:
The principle can perceived (only) through the gestalt so thats why you used the analogy with a house of mirrors; that stands that the principle is only a reflection of ourselves, as well as (what I understood) that infinite intelligence you mention. Am I right?
@wolfheart1982 Well, gods for me are just aspects of the collective psyche, okay? So the gods are reflections of our larger collective self or selves. Hence it really does compare to a house of mirrors.
@JamesNealFox So, thats why you answered somewhere else that labels or definition were important, because any god is a construction or perception that the social collective has and it could be imposible to try to understand it without comunication between the members of the comunity, for a start. As an outcome, the collective element is a fundament to your believes, but why do you think the principle is no percived, nor interpretated the same way by everyone?
@wolfheart1982 Everyone has a different point of reference to their subconscious, for one thing. For another, for most folks belief in the unknown has nothing at all to do with inner experience. It is just hand-me-down doctrines. The doctrines are loaded because the history is loaded.
So it's a miracle anybody agrees on anything, really.
@JamesNealFox Then, you appeal to those inner experiences to search for that infinite intelligence, as I understood, but discovering the subconscious i s a part (I suppose) of the inner experience and everyone has a different reference, as you said. This seems to contradict that collective psyche idea, don't you think?
@wolfheart1982 Nope. How your conscious awareness stands in relation to the collective unconscious is how you will see something. A mountain is a mountain, but it looks different depending where one stands in relation to it. A woman is a woman, but she's not the same woman to her first husband as to the second. A universe is a universe, but some of us are from Venus, others from Mars.
@JamesNealFox OK, now i understand better that idea of infinite intelligence, but how are you aware of or how can you perceive it, if everyone is standing at one point looking at the mountain? You can communicate to others to get a more complete picture of the landscape, but even then you will be standing at your own point; even if you change position you'll be at your own point.
@wolfheart1982 Well, fortunately others have been where you have been and stood where you are standing and have gone up ahead a little higher, and that's what most people go by if this is about actual inner experience. There's a lot's of maps, and the best ones all have a lot in common, so you begin to trust that, too.
@JamesNealFox That sounds good but I don't think it's possible since everybody has a different point of reference in their subconscious; even if they are were I am, they don't see exactly what I see. Im sure you can get a lot from those best maps, but also can be a little dangerous to trust the facts they have in common and claim as that.
@JamesNealFox (sorry, there wasnt enough space) Probably you'll see what I mean if we consider Inquisition, that was just possible because a lot of people trusted the map without actually knowing. Lets state that even when theres a lot of priests preaching as mechanical robots, theres a lot of clerics that are really wise men and have had them as a fundation justified, back then, all the torturing and killing.
@wolfheart1982 It's common on YouTube to be talking at cross purposes with someone. The Inquisition and higher consciousness brain wave states are apples & oranges. Self-mastery of brain waves is an empirical fact of meditation that can be graphed on an EEG. The maps I speak of have to do with this, not what a bunch of idiots & cynics make of the Bible.
@JamesNealFox Well, the bible is full of crap by itself, it doesnt need any help. But I think both things are not that far from each other. Church people is suppose to get closer to god (infinite intelligence) through paying, wich is similar to meditation (not sure about this); so, priests should have a higher state of consciousness (I just kind of understand this), therefore a certain level of mastery of their brain waves. Said that, seems an aberration how the events of inquisition took place.
@wolfheart1982 Couldn't disagree with you more, Wolf. Altered brain waves have nothing to do with prayer. Meditation does, when it's real. None of this is subject to debate. It's a matter of demonstrable fact on an EEG. The idea that the Bible Belt has deep alpha and theta states owing to their doctrines is ludicrous. Hook them up to an EEG and you'll see it's what their heads are about.
@JamesNealFox Of course it sounds ludicrous, but in the other side I don't think tibetan monks started meditation because they wanted to master their brain waves. I think discussion about it is possible because researchers have made clear that this explanation you give is hypothetical, the more plausible, but yet in the field of posibilities. The fact is that you alter your brain waves, what is not a fact is that you reach a higher state of consciousness.
@JamesNealFox Since in that upper state is suppose you reach a knowledge that is beyond the senses, it wolud also impossible to describe it or give any information about it. Taking back the praying issue, in meditation you're supposed to get rid of all bounds to the material world concentrating your mind on a divinity idea, repeating it, is not praying the same? you repeat the hail mary 100000 times, you focus on that idea of divinity as the tibetans monks do with their oms.
@danielrrjd man, your writing style is really hard to understand. I suppose that "he knew already this was coming" you refer to "the bible is full of crap by itself" and you mean he knew there was gonna be people who don't believe what bible says. Well, there was, there is, and there will be, that's no new news. My thoughts on jesus are that he was an illiterate with good intentions, initiative and insanity.
By the way, Mr. Fox, excuse my comment about Venus, I was simply responding to a previous comment. Also excuse the number of comments, Insomnia's kicked in and when something interests me I go with it.
Lucifer is not "the Devil" or "Satan" Lucifer is the lightbringer , but Ronald McDonald is the second coming of Jesus so it's all a bit confusing but you will get it eventually .
I will send Retsina a message equal to her intent. For everyone else I'll just say this: Where there is peace, love is possible, and with love a little faith helps.
As for the rest: being blessed by a cruel god that requires blood atonement?
I enjoy these videos (& I'm not even a Satanist); this was very well done. 2 questions: 1: do you feel that Venus answered your question about what Theisim is in re: to her Satanisim (I had to scroll through dozens of replies to find it) and 2: is that her face at the end of the vid w/the funky eyes?
No picture of Venus appears in the video and no image was intended to represent her.
As for whether Venus answered the question about theism, her reply was for me is faith-based, which until then I was not sure was her orientation. She believes Satan is a supernatural being, but the being did not exist prior to the universe. Still, the being is all-powerful and godlike, so a god is a god is a god.
If we are talking off the record then I agree. My significant other has borderline personality disorder (bpd), so naked girls kinda set her off. It's all very deep. Personally I'm quite proud of my unit but to be honest I'm not sure how comfortable I would be with everyone sizeing each other up. I suppose I will agree though, That would be nice.
Well, everybody walking around naked probably wouldn't communicate to very many people, so let's say cool people who have some of the principles down and come to it with the right spirit would be the ideal.
As for everyday reality, I do usually walk around in sunglasses, so I appreciate your drift.
i have a serious question right there DOES SATAN EAT DOMINOZ PIZZA?? cause i heard that he likes it so much specially with cow BALLS so i think its a good sacrifice to get the cow balls and how lovely if u include the cow penis
Well, I've never known Lucifer to order pizza, but my guess is that on questions like yours he either goes with the the flow of whatever crowd he's in with or, depending on circumstances, he might choose to shock sensibilities.
Of course, seeing as how he requires no ritual sacrifices and is insulted by the whole concept of sacrificial offerings, I'm pretty sure it's going to be your own balls on the altar by the end of the evening.
look man i will talk with you seriously satan is a creature, so how can i give my focus to a creature not to the creator??? if you're your own god for example as they say then you have the ability to control your soul and u will forbid your soul to die or to be taken and its absolutly wrong u live then u DIE. Think for a while after death to where your soul go and to whom??? to the CREATOR or to a creature???
Mr james with all due my respect i wish for all people a good life including you.
# 1: You have no idea of my philosophy one way or another.
# 2: Your conclusions about what you think I am saying takes as true conclusions that have no evidence to support them one way or another.
# 3: You believe as you believe because you believe it.
# 4: You assume I believe as I believe because I believe it.
# 5 People who believe as they believe because the believe it who argue with others who believe what they believe because they believe it is just a lot of noise.
I have to agree with Fox here, I watch alot of VS videos ,and she has alot of information,my only crit is that sometimes she seems to put forth ideas she may be studying b4 she has developed a full understanding of the ideas,thats not bad if it was put forth as study and not as teaching, theistic satanism had to come after laveyan,it came about because many CoS members disagreed with lavey saying atheistic ,i/e temple of set,I am not a satanist,I am pagan,I can still recognise the contradiction
Well, I put the term "Luciferan" in quotes because I decided that my own sense of things is probably at a distance from the usual categories.
I am essentially a process Wiccan.
Still, I have to question your cut & dry categories. Many people involved in all this would take exception, and "theism" is not defined as you state it here in any encyclopedia except in the very broadest sense--and there's a point when the broadest sense of a word gets pretty stretched.
I think the basic problem is that "theistic" satanist still in effect thru practise and ritual "worship" a satan as a real "theistic" spirtual being, they say they dont beilieve but I think that is a kind of rational in the point that they have yet to break free of material ideas of good and evil,they still hold to the idea of being adversary to christianity and some other religions so the relgion is not as much for personal growth as much as a kind of psychological feeling of well being,agree?
It's hard to pin down Satanism because there can seem to be almost as many different kinds of Satanists as there are Satanists.
Defining against Jude-Christianity is a big rallying point for this camp. In my experience this was only a stage in my growth, not where I would build an entire philosophy.
As far as well-being vs. growth, that's so many different kinds of spirituality that I would not single out Satanism.
well said, I think in my own limitated POV I would kind of single out satanism because they kind of go the extreme of singling themselves out, Ive gotten as much onesided argument out of satanists as any mormon or scientologist or jehovahs witness,even tho I recognise that as my own limited idea of satanism I wonder if you have an opinion on how they could make the transition above just rallying aganst other religions,is it possible for satanism as a philosophy/religion to embrace spirituality?
Your best point is dynamic growth vs. static well being, and on that front I see individual Satanists maturing, sure; but I do not see Satanist culture producing covens that are a real force for this.
Narcissism has too much theoretical sway in the Satanic ethos.
Changing this would be to no longer really be Satanist; so by definition Satanism as a subculture is about static well being.
@JamesNealFox Well Sir, I'll tell you this much. You're completely correct. I swear no two Satanists see Satanism the same way. MY personal view on it, is that Satanism isn't so much a religion, as a set of tenets, a guide if you will. Do I inherently believe in Satan, or God for that matter? Not as conscious beings. But Satanism makes the most sense to me, so I follow the word. Every Satanist views it in it's own way, which is the point. Individuality, which most other religions reject,
@Someonedamn Well, as I say in Lucifer on Satanism the problem is that when a label can mean anything it means nothing. My morality is Wiccan, so I'll stand on that side of the room and take from what might be called Satanism as I will.
@JamesNealFox I can understand that general idea, however, any label can mean anything ultimately. It's what said label means to you that matters. Any religion comes down to what you take away from it, which no two people will take the exact same. Just as Satanism has those who run around yelling "Hail Satan", Wicca has people who run around the woods naked, and everything in between for both..
Either way, It's nice to see someone who actually trades ideas, and I thank you for that much.
@fraterlucifer888 While being contradictory to religions such as Christianity (part of why it's named Satanism), true Satanists hold no grudge simply based on religion alone. Are there plenty of Christians that I hate? Most definitely, but because of the person, not the religion.
I'm also not very fond of the hypocrisy in religions, (including my own), but once again, that's more a trait of a person, or the nature of man itself, than a trait of the religion.
@Someonedamn being pagan myself I kinda stumbled thru wicca some thelema and very rudimentary satanism,trying to define my inner mindset,I apriciate laveys pov and humor,hes a real contemporary philosopher,my basic outlook as pagan hasnt wavered and I can identify with satanism,I do try to avoid anything called religion and I wouldnt say being pagan is religion for me, spiritual and disciplined,but very personal,,I was up painting and now Im 1/2 asleep if Im rambling,blessings 888
@fraterlucifer888 So if I understand you right, you follow what makes sense and ignore what doesn't? That's the best way to follow it, personalize it and make it your own. I'm a Satanist, but you dont ever see me running around saying "Hail Satan," carrying the Satanic Bible on my hip, or really any of the theatrics. However I do follow the tenets set forth, because they make sense to me and basically fit with my personality and beliefs anyway.
@Someonedamn when I do see someone running around saying "Hail Satan" and shoving all the other trappings in everyone's face, I think that all they are doing is showing how desperate they are for attention. TRUE satanism is about following our basic human nature. All these ridiculous videos on here about conjuring demons and pole dancing to death metal -- C'mon already.
@Someonedamn Since morality is relative, it calls for communication as to what & who I am and what & who you are, so names and definitions become important or everything falls into miscommunication. So a name and definition that can mean anything and is strictly individual tends to have no social context at all. Communication breaks down routinely.
I have listened to quite a few of Venus Satanas's speils, and though she tries and seems to put quite a bit of effort into it, I don't think she has any real conviction, she is just spouting off things she has read - like many so called satanists, the main attraction to the life is the theatrics, no different than someone who thinks going to church on sunday makes them a christian.
@Dix994 Exactly. Her game is very similar to other religious entities, build a blind following and make money. We got into a heated (and slightly ridiculous,mostly on her part) argument over this. Her videos are essentially glorified textbook readings, and then she hocks her wares on youtube. You're correct about Satanists in it for theatrics, While that's fine I guess, they miss the entire message behind Satanism, which in my opinion is to enjoy life while you have it, whatever that may entail.
Not hard to build a blind following these days. I just can't relate to the need to stay in one little corner, to identify myself as one thing or the other....you'll find a statues of the Virgin Mary in my liv. room, buddha in the bedroom, a bible along with witchcraft and occult books on the shelves, signs of nature everywhere - I have experience w/ many religions, and from each one have found something to hold dear in my life. None of them represent me completely, nor would I want one to.
To ArchDeacon's hot topic below: The reason the serpent is universally considered wise must have its roots in prehistoric times and relates to the fact that the serpent, a phallic symbol, was associated with shamans or priests reputed to have been all-wise.
There are other possible explanations. Jung would say it's archetypal. Possibly anything that slithers and creeps seems subtle from the start.
Still, for me my hunch banks on cultural desemination from a forgotten source.
Lucifer represented reason, logic, the cognitive mind, and the light of understanding. He tried unsuccessfully to overthrow the old primitive God of instinct, brutality, and the dark forces of the unconscious. Myths of a great battle between new and old gods abound all over the world. In Greek mythology, Zeus overcame the old god Kronos after a titanic struggle. Ancient Greeks rejoiced! Doesnt that tell you something about the Greeks, haha.
I'm not sure what you mean when you say the parallel between the Lucifer myth in the OT and the Titanomachy is 'relative'.
Yes, Kundalini , the coiled serpent at the base of the spine, which represents primal energy, is revered in Hindu yogic philosophy, whereas the 'serpent' or 'snake' in the Bible comes to represent something evil. In other myths it represents wisdom. How do you explain all these different 'symbolic' meanings?
I agree about the transition from a matriarchal soc.
By my remark about the Greeks I only meant that coming down on them gets pretty relative. Yes, the Greeks were repressive about certain mysteries, but other cultures were much worse about it.
So for me it's relative in that regard.
The divergence about serpent symbolism reflects the fact that the West, so to speak, murdered the Mother while the East kept her on as a ceremonial queen of sorts.
Her mysteries survived a few amputations, so her consorts were afforded more dignity.
Yes of course, different cultures had widely varying attitudes to Woman and these were naturally reflected in their myths. Yet why did the serpent, of all creatures, come to represent wisdom? One can perhaps understand why the energy rising from the base of the spine should put one in mind of a snake. And evil is just a value judgement, so no problem there. But what is there wise about a snake?
The concept of wisdom & knowledge & gnosis associated with the serpent is universal. Even the garble in Genesis does little to obscure the assumption.
It is phallic. Circumcision, for example, was in all likelihood the snake shedding its skin, which I'm reasonably sure would have meant to make the organ more resemble the female clitoris & thus distinguish an uninitiated man from someone schooled in the Mother's ways.
Even the rising of kundalini is a discreet allusion to an erection.
Well, the symbolism of the serpent / snake representing wisdom or something like it is even found in cultures presumably isolated from one another which makes the problem more not less perplexing. The snake shedding its skin is usually offered an explanation for the snake as a symbol of renewal and theres another one: the snake as representative of renewal, eternal life etc. So again, why the snake / serpent as a symbol of wisdom?
Somehow I get the feeling that you have an answer in mind.
Maybe not.
Jung would say it's the collective unconscious, but my leaning is that secret societies wandered around with this. Traces of their influence remain the local mythologies of one people or another.
They saw themselves as missionaries with no home base to be loyal to anymore since the base had sunk beneath the waves.
Why do think that? No, honestly, Im just curious. Hmm...wonder why you thought that. I just find it puzzling. I mean, do snakes look wise? Do they have any anthropomorphic features that convey wisdom? Not to my mind maybe Im missing something. There must be some reason, of course. I dont recall Jung saying the snake is a symbol of the unconscious? In any case, why should the snake represent the unconsciousness? Itd be as puzzling as why the snake should represent wisdom.
Sorry, I also meant to add: even if the snake does represent the unconscious (which would be yet another symbolic meaning of the snake / serpent) it also represents wisdom, and this still requires an explanation. (I'm not saying you're not right about Jung linkiing it with the unconscious - just that I can't recall it).
Well, we're talking at cross purposes. I did not mean that the serpent represents the unconscious, only that the universality of its being a symbol of wisdom suggests an a priori archetype.
I'm not that sold on that premise.
I only mentioned it to point out that this would be Jung's take on any question of this sort about most any symbol.
The snake is phallic. Sex magic is universal. The phallus is power, etc.
Why did you think I had 'an answer in mind'? You didn't say.
Well of course, virtually all mythological symbolism has its roots in archetypes. That is where its power derives.
Yeah, I know about the snake as representative of the phallus - that's hardly a source of perplexity. What IS a source of perplexity, to me - and it would seem to you too - is why the snake should ever have come to represent WISDOM.
Well, I'm not really very perplexed by it at all. A priesthood with a serpent as its primary symbol gains a reputation for wisdom, so their main symbol comes to be associated with wisdom, that's all.
As for areas where the priesthood is unknown there remains the glaring fact that the erect phallus defines the shaman in most any cave painting.
The shaman is considered wise, and so what defines him, his phallus, is understood to be one brainy all-knowing penis.
OK.,so you dont want to tell me why you thought I had an answer in mind.
At last, though, you are addressing the snake / wisdom question. You suggest that cults which had serpents as their primary symbol (whatever it may have represented), had shamans / priests who were considered wise and therefore the symbol of the serpent came to be associated with wisdom. Hmm. Well, in that case, why don't ALL the primary symbols of ALL cults represent wisdom?
Why did I suspect you might have an answer in mind? Well, you can't seem to let the subject go, and people this intent on a topic usually have a lot to say about it--at least in my experience they do.
This suggests an agenda.
An argument for its own sake seems unusual on YouTube.
Usually the person has something they're trying to advance or defend.
Name one male cult with prehistoric roots where the greatest god was not either all-wise or all-powerful or both.
Well, I dont mind polemic, tho' in this case I thought an exchange between two people both into mythology might lead somewhere, if we stick with the issue and respond to (not ignore) each others points.
Name one? The Phoenician deity Adonis? Ares? Pan? OK, most are all wise / powerful. Carry on. Why shouldnt the bull, the ankh, the golden fleece...and so on and on...have come to represent wisdom, as the serpent did, given the priests were invariably wise.
Okay, Arch, let's hone this down. The universality of a symbol suggest prehistoric roots that go way waaay back for it to be universal in the first place.
How many of your deities pass that litmus?
Possibly Adonis in one form or other, fertility guy, consort, etc.
Neolithic age.
But was Adonis ever anywhere in any culture or any form the greatest male deity?
Sorry, no.
Name a really old greatest god that was not either wise or all-powerful or both.
Recap: You have suggested that the serpent came to represent wisdom because whatever it originally represented (renewal, sexuality, primal energy etc.) the priests of the cult were considered wise and so the snake symbol came to be associated with wisdom. I don't see why. The cross didn't come to represent wisdom despite the Church having a monolopoly on education. The bull cults had wise priests but the bull never represented wisdom. So what's special about the snake / serpent?
Oh come on, that's not how to engage in a debate. You think I haven't paraphrased you correctly. Fair enough, but tell me HOW you think I have misrepresented you.
Arch, keep in mind that the judge of this talk is not you or me. It's those who give it a glance.
At this point I'm only allowing this exchange to go on a little further to demonstrate to others that I'm willing to have a discussion insofar as it's actually a discussion and not just someone playing contrarian and either unable or unwilling to to answer a question posed.
You won't answer the question. You only attack the question.
Most people who watch this video realize it's neighborly. Venus & I get along fine. She replied to this video somewhere down below.
Anybody can see she doesn't feel attacked.
I've only gotten 4 negative comments. One of them from somebody obviously unstable; another one from somebody who thought I was gay and has judgments about gays.
I'm straight.
Someone else thought I was trying to make time with Venus.
For anyone who IS trying to make time with Venus, she's married.
No worries; I usaully skim through the religious/spiritual type channels now and then. I wasn't trying to label your ideas or beliefs. I noticed that there was some general confusion(to include myself). I have noticed that there is a lot of variation in what people on the internet consider "luciferian" and "satanic" than I had always accepted as being the associated schools of thought. It is very interesting to hear your view-points and what how they are viewed by others.
I've toyed with calling myself "Luciferan" and used the word in the video, but, as you say, everybody has their own ideas on it. Basically I practice Wiccan morality and believe any god or goddess is just a projection our minds put on the Infinite, which is ultimately incomprehensible.
Well, I don't quite understand you, either; but I did go to your page for a clue, and you're welcomed to the same with my page.
With this one particular video it could be that you're coming in the middle of a kind of conversation between two people that you don't know very well.
I was going over where my point of view diverged from Venus', that's all. I don't recall the issue of being bad coming up or wanting to be bad or even calling myself a Satanist.
If you call yourself a satanist you are assuming the role of the advisary. There are forces at work in the universe; if you don't think so jump off a tall building. That doesn't mean you have to diefy them like some kind of ignorant villager(southern baptist).You would would call yourself a free-loving hippie, agnostic, or --insert religion here-- who wants to "act bad", or some such non-sense. Lucifer would also be kinda regarded as "uncle sam" as a symbol of illumination(from dogma).....
"Panentheism"...is just another word for "Chaos" ? and are you trying to suggest that reglion is just a idea that is open to everything,but attached to nothing, A belief or a tenet contary to a recieved opinon.
"Panentheism" as in process theology, which has long been a way for spiritual people in the west to reconcile their traditions with eastern philosophy.
I don't see how someone would get chaos out of it.
You have an interestng way of putting things. Panentheism for me is about experience, so beliefs come & go according to what's meaningful to a person's process.
So, then to say Panentheism is selective; because it is a belief system that is held by one's own point of view ....I am reminded of the tale about the " Tower of Babel"...and the end result of that .... uniformity into chaos.
Oh, I see what you're saying now. Zen is about a widening of perception and raising consciousness levels beyond alpha. None of this need have anything to do with morality one way or another.
Meanwhile people, enlightened or unenlightened, do make laws and get along, and their understanding of good law & bad evovles with awareness & changing times.
In a free society this becomes a matter of representional consensus.
I should add that Panentheism is a very broad category. Eastern philosophy is agog in all kinds of absolute moral precepts. Western process theology attempts to reconcile the Sermon on the Mount with a progressive humanist agenda.
Panentheism cannot get enough of morality, but for where I'm coming from I'm not exactly convinced.
Better to be honest and leave it at everybody finding their own way.
Truth is surmised by results. A fly cannot understand human experience. A human is as a fly to some mysteries out there, but a fly can know its own sphere, and humans enjoy the opportunity of pushing the frontier on their own sphere, which keeps it interesting.
Dude, you mispelled "Luciferan". That's probably why you're thinking about Lucy--or maybe it's because you're thinking of Lucy that you spelled it "Luceferian".
I'm sure you've got a lot of good reasons for Lucy being on your mind.
I''ve been there, but these days, hey, Lucy is ancient history to me.
Venus Satanas possesses an unmistakable energy, but I believe that for such energy to flourish everywhere, for it to become a part of the basic fabric of a culture, it requires a more rigorous framework than most give it.
Someone has suggested that my video has no point.
Well, the point is that it is a good thing for people to ask questions, clarify points, and generate discussion.
i think this is pointless. I am a ortodox christian. I come from atheistic family and i had many expiriances that lead me into christianity. People follow their basic instinct in this thing we call belief,not some funamental study of some self-important allknowing figure. I watched VenusSatanas's videos and i think she is very inteligent young woman. I think she has the point in her theory that satan is the force on earth or some kind of spiritual essence...not an actual entity.
Venus and I get along fine. We have subscribers in common. The video was meant to open a line of communication with her. It succeeded.
So much for its being pointless.
There's just things I can't always reconcile in her talks, that's all; the same as I cannot reconcile some of your remarks when you call yourself Orthodox.
As for essence vs. entity, you're in my sphere there, not necessarily hers.
It's for her to say as much, but she never really has.
No,no,you know what i meant when i said pointless. I dont know how much you know about ortodox christianity and the dogmas that separated the church,back in Roman empire. We have so much diffrent approach in our belief and there are no christian fundamentalists...whom i hate and would rather make friends with a satanist. I won't bother your communication any more,sorry for the bug! You have some great videos on your channel though.
@ VenusSatanas. I'm not quite sure i understand but i have a better idea. O.o it's not quite what i believe but it is good to have such gaps. discussing differing beliefs civilly and without anger is a great way to grow spiritually. anyway, i was wondering, if Satan came after earth was mad, and perhaps after man..and man created the idea of satan, (or maybe the prototypical idea) then worshiped him or her (can a spirit have a true gender?) then who really holds the power over the universe?
Stories are just stories, a matter of what someone makes of them. As for who controls the universe, nobody does. Its just there. Aligning yourself with its mysteries is a good way of getting along with the universe, so go for it.
Part of Venus thing with No Creator is she doesnt care for the idea of the Big Owner up in the sky. Neither do I. Personally I am glad the universe has no Owner.
If your a theist then you belive in at least one deity?Then you deny this later in the comment .Your justification is poor surely honesty is the best policy?.Anyway no harm done but your miles off using levyan satanism to justify theistic satanism.Cant you just be a devil worshipper? hoho
I believe she stated her views quite well. True they are different from what one might expect, and in fact are not quite in line with many people's view of the term "theist". But these do not make her mistaken. Terms mean different things to different people, even within the same culture. Her idea of the term does not coincide perfectly with yours, causing a gap.
you follow? O.o sorry i talk really really strange sometimes.
what if youre idea of satanism is the source of all god reality,the understanding of our relationship with the universe being god and the system of manipulating our connection is the devil or a corruption of this connection and dogma has alienated us until we are returning to this god conciousness but in a way that can be marketed as cool and still under the marketable control of those who isolated this truth in the thirst place????
zzerko1 6 months ago
@zzerko1 "Thirst place"? LOL I put my panentheism into occult Wicca, which comes with a predisposition against monopoly capitalism as well as patriarchal monotheistic institutions, which gets back to opposition to bad environmental stuff that has come of all of that, so my conscience is clean with it. The thinking comes with an implied political & social agenda counter to the prevailing system. Meanwhile the Internet itself acts as a kind of wild card in marketing. Anybody can jump in.
JamesNealFox 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Please make sure you know where you will spend eternity. The bible says "But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur (Rev. 21:8). We have broken God's commandments and we are destined for wrath. Jesus died so we wouldn't have to be condemned to hell. We MUST repent of our sins against a Holy God, and trust Jesus to be our Lord and Savior.
oNallieGirl 7 months ago
Religious Satanism is bound to fall into self-contradiction and even become amorphous, even tothe point of absurdity; Theistic satanism is such a spectrum, often times a Satanist can be swept along on a tide of definitions, which fall fail and rise again. You demand too much of a Theist [Satanist[; an excellent roduction, and reasoned words, professionally deleivered.
nargargole 9 months ago
Your videos rock James. Perhaps Venus is expressing that Satan IS her god, which would make Theistic Satanism very plausible.
TheUFOchemtrails 9 months ago
@TheUFOchemtrails I'm not so sure I follow what you're saying. Personally my honest impression is Satan is Venus' deity, but that doesn't convince me the deity is not self-created. People have subjective faith-based experiences that accept a theistic framework, but it leaves the rest of us unconvinced that the experiences necessarily substantiate theism itself one way or another.
I've never known Venus to justify her beliefs any other way than inner experience.
JamesNealFox 9 months ago
@JamesNealFox True, perhaps the term 'Theistic Satanism' is her way of expressing that she came out of a somewhat Christian belief system (ultimately created by none other than Satan, a man-made god) and this means that Satan is simply a man-made expression of the self fully embodied in knowledge and wisdom? Didn't pagan Christianity create Lucifer and Satan anyway? lol
TheUFOchemtrails 9 months ago
@TheUFOchemtrails Yeah, I'd say so. Venus acknowledges that the church went about demonizing pagan gods & co-opting various names for gods to label as one demon's name or another. She acknowledges the word itself, "Satan", is biblical and that the church's rampant use of the name at one point was plainly progagandistic. She even acknowledges that Satan changes as the concept changes, so how this is anything but an unconscious psychic process best made conscious?
JamesNealFox 9 months ago
@JamesNealFox Hmm, interesting fun discussion we got going here:)....my viewpoint on how we make an Un-conscious psychic process could perhaps be nearly everything we do as humans anyway-- programming, media brainwashing, religion, music-- all Sub' and some very Unconscious creations going on simultaneously.
TheUFOchemtrails 9 months ago
And perhaps the word "Theist" is being used to express the Theory of God within Satanism as well as the many pagan gods created from those theories. Something to ponder--
TheUFOchemtrails 9 months ago
@TheUFOchemtrails Well, I have pondered it, but it never comes to acxtual deities indpendent of the personal or mass psyche, so it couldn't be called theism. Thought forms are probably an hourly occurence in people unconsciously painting themselves in one corner or another, but even the most advanced and quasi self-aware thought form is still a form of psychic artificial intelligence.
Hardly the supreme ruler that Venus describes Satan as being.
I find the supreme ruler thing limiting.
JamesNealFox 9 months ago
Hmmm, very interesting I liked this
Demogorgon1990 10 months ago
Wow! You people really are confused! I guess I should thank you because if it wasn't for people like you,I wouldn't realize how much worse life could be.
lute760 11 months ago
@lute760 Well, gosh, Lute, why don't you come on up front & center & let us all in on just specifically confused we are, why don't ya? I'm sure we'll all be stunned by your keen insight and all your concise answers. I sense real genius here, and real genius doesn't hesitate to express, explain & enlighten.
JamesNealFox 11 months ago 2
Demons hate satan. They are all warring against him right now. Three thirds together. Three thirds forever. 3/3.
gusanotaylor 1 year ago
tony71978 seems to think my video is an "attack". I don't get it with how defensive a minority of trolls get with this neighborly video. I have no idea what or who they think they are protecting with their remarks.
I doubt they understood what was said, why it was said or even understand someone talking civilly about some subject or other.
To disagree is to "attack"? In high school maybe.
JamesNealFox 1 year ago
@JamesNealFox Honestly, although I agree with you and admittedly never saw any of your other videos, I suspect some people consider this an attack because your tone and way of speaking can seem a bit condescending. Of course you might just talk like that, I have no idea. I like Venus Satanas videos a lot but I too have wondered why She chooses the word Theist. I will be looking at your videos as I consider my own view as more Panentheist than most other descriptions I've come to know.
TheEidolon7 1 year ago
@TheEidolon7 "Condescending" has only come up once before on this page from someone who really seemed pretty far gone, & Venus herself (when I mentioned the guy's animosity) said she would as soon I removed his comment (even though I'm not sure she ever actually read it). I think the bottom line is Venus took the video without offense & later even left some positive remarks on a couple of my vids.
People attack an "attack" that isn't there.
JamesNealFox 1 year ago
@JamesNealFox I have now seen more of your videos, which I greatly enjoy and appreciate. Your way of expressing yourself remains consistent and I do not believe you are being condescending. Hopefully people will explore your channel before judging. You present very good information and ideas.
TheEidolon7 1 year ago
reminds me of those political attack ads Lucifer for govenor..
tony711978 1 year ago
reminds me of those political ads
tony711978 1 year ago
VOUS POUVEZ S V P TRADUIRE EN FRANCAIS MERCI SATANIQUEMENT VOTRE
lapin6989 1 year ago
@lapin6989 No, I cannot. Thanks for asking.
JamesNealFox 1 year ago
@JamesNealFox the real content and you can ALWAYS argue about usage of words or presentation of an idea, because there is no way to put it in perfect words. And for everyone of us, that all looks a bit different. You certainly know what I'm talking about. You can present your understanding of the world for months and it still will be imperfect representation of the real content that is in you - the understanding that goes beyond any words.
Ups, I started rambling :P. I'll better finish here.
zalbarath666 1 year ago
@zalbarath666 Well, you should have replied to your own replies to get your remarks in proper sequence. You did for most of them, but, well . . .
I know you probably don't mean to put it all on me, not entirely anyway, and I do know what you're getting at, but it was for Venus to say where she's at, and I can't think to say anything more in reply to your points except that I allowed for your perspective and expected a response of your sort, but it never happened.
JamesNealFox 1 year ago
@JamesNealFox I thought I did replay to my posts to keep the discussion line. But the way comments on youtube are presented, is puzzling at least.
Nevermind.
You are right to say that it's up to her to answer. I just wanted to add (and probably did too extensively then it is proper ;P) my thoughts on that. Youtube is hardly proper space to discuss that.
Visit venu's IRC chatroom if you want to talk it through more freely.
zalbarath666 1 year ago
@zalbarath666 The thing is I expected a video response, but it was her choice to say a few things on the page and leave it at that.
JamesNealFox 1 year ago
@JamesNealFox. You simply must give us credit, that there is much more depth to it then visible on the site.
Basically by trying to discuss this topic in this vid, you clung on the surface from wrong attachment point.
What I'm trying to say is, that Venus is aware of the complexity of the topic but putting your questions like that, it's kinda hard to answer directly, cos your points are missing the real content, because...
continuing...
zalbarath666 1 year ago
@JamesNealFox. ... If I would discuss all topics in details.
Other example: doing theurgy magick, we invoke gods as if they were the source of the power and desired change. But pantheists usually understands that it is just an approach of a mind that eases the resistance, because ultimately, we are the only source of creation in our life and so called gods, are mind constructs (but still real entities nonetheless - another complex topic) that help us in that. Continuing...
zalbarath666 1 year ago
you choke on a nat, but swallow a camel.
bryan7422 1 year ago
@bryan7422 LOL Why don't you just say, "The Bible Tells Me So, so I don't have to think."?
It would be more honest, you know.
I went to your page.
JamesNealFox 1 year ago
I also call myself theistic satanist, while being pantheistic. I just take "theism" in a much broader sense, meaning believing in a spiritual, wider reality (and also having some ideas on concept of god, although sometimes completely different from abrahamic standards), as opposite to atheists who are focused solely on material aspect of life. In other words, pantheism is also theism and it doesn't always imply believing in superior, distinct god like in Christianity.
zalbarath666 1 year ago
@zalbarath666 While pantheism and panentheism could be said to be branches of theism, the usual convention with such terms in the English-speaking world implies a supreme interventionist deity, almost always Yaweh-Allah-Whatever. My sense of Venus' use of the term was that Satan is an independent supernatural intelligence, a matter of simply displacing the father god with the rebel god and counting certain subjective inner experiences as the basis for her belief.
JamesNealFox 1 year ago
Many Internet users are non native English speakers (like me) so usual conventions are not the best guideline, especially when we talk about Satanism which is extremely differentiated.
I know Venus from many chats on IRC and I found that we share many similar views and we both IMO could be called pantheists or panetheists (slightly different definitions but in practice it doesn't matter), which are in itself very broad terms and people's beliefs within this terminology varies.
zalbarath666 1 year ago
Besides, most of people I talked online (and I talked to many) take "theism" as general term having nothing to do with abrahamic views, so your assumption is for me somewhat surprising and even unusual, although you see it as typical.
Theistic Satanism is nowadays very broadly and often used term and in my experience, in most cases it has very little to do with abrahamic approach.
zalbarath666 1 year ago
@zalbarath666 Well, you might want to check out Venus' comments on this page in answer to the video. I can only go by her own response.
In her talks Venus has talked about Satan as an interventionist deity on more than one occasion--interventionist in the sense that he can be negotiated with to satisfy some personal end. I made my video because she can indeed sound like she's on both sides of the question, & so I was curious.
JamesNealFox 1 year ago
@JamesNealFox Yes, I also can't speak for her but from my experience it's a complicated topic. Because majority understands deities in 'interventionistic' way, the same language is commonly used by many. I also sometimes express myself in these terms if talking to wider, non oriented public. Pantheistic understanding of the world is usually extremely complex and allows for seeing things from many perspectives.
Continuing...
(Again, this box is too small for the whole comment :(. )
zalbarath666 1 year ago
@JamesNealFox. Anyway, that what one presents outside and that what you meet when talking months long with deeper understanding of the topic, it's completely different thing.
For example, I may say "Satan wants...", thinking rather: "this is what I want and Satan as the divine part of me, divine inspiration, supports all my desires, because divine is not choosing for us, it chooses WITH us - it's still too complex topic to put it here".
I or anybody, would go nowhere I would discuss... contin.
zalbarath666 1 year ago
One Cannot Be the Beginning and The End. If The First Is Indeed The Last. That Would Make The Last, First. The Right, The Left. The Yang, Yin. Morally Correct, Morally Incorrect. and so on...
metallicorpse 1 year ago
@metallicorpse Well, the more speculative end of physics ponders the possibility of a beginning to time, which is paradoxical, I think. The source of time would have to be in itself timeless without any beginning, any middle, any end, no before, no during, no after; soooooo in a multidimensional universe how could the beginning, at bottom, be anything but one & the same with the end?
What is time? If that's imponderable then what's imponderable remains an open question.
JamesNealFox 1 year ago
Your question is one I've been wanting to ask her as well...
FollyxXxFallen 1 year ago
To manfred6475 I would be tempted to say, "That's OK, I don't have any idea what you're saying,either." But, having gone to his page & checked out his other comments to other people that he assumes are Satanists it's clear English is his second language, & I don't make fun of people when it's a language barrier thing.
JamesNealFox 1 year ago
i cant podt a thing!
manfred6475 1 year ago
To the comment by mr79silson below it was not my intent to rip holes in someone's logic. I was perplexed by Venus' position and thought I'd share my own to put my perplexity in context.
JamesNealFox 1 year ago
you did a pretty god job of ripping numerous holes in her argument/logic. james
mr79wilson 1 year ago
I didn't get very well the stuff about the mirrors (my bad english) but this what I got:
The principle can perceived (only) through the gestalt so thats why you used the analogy with a house of mirrors; that stands that the principle is only a reflection of ourselves, as well as (what I understood) that infinite intelligence you mention. Am I right?
wolfheart1982 1 year ago
@wolfheart1982 Well, gods for me are just aspects of the collective psyche, okay? So the gods are reflections of our larger collective self or selves. Hence it really does compare to a house of mirrors.
JamesNealFox 1 year ago
@JamesNealFox So, thats why you answered somewhere else that labels or definition were important, because any god is a construction or perception that the social collective has and it could be imposible to try to understand it without comunication between the members of the comunity, for a start. As an outcome, the collective element is a fundament to your believes, but why do you think the principle is no percived, nor interpretated the same way by everyone?
wolfheart1982 1 year ago
@wolfheart1982 Everyone has a different point of reference to their subconscious, for one thing. For another, for most folks belief in the unknown has nothing at all to do with inner experience. It is just hand-me-down doctrines. The doctrines are loaded because the history is loaded.
So it's a miracle anybody agrees on anything, really.
JamesNealFox 1 year ago
@JamesNealFox Then, you appeal to those inner experiences to search for that infinite intelligence, as I understood, but discovering the subconscious i s a part (I suppose) of the inner experience and everyone has a different reference, as you said. This seems to contradict that collective psyche idea, don't you think?
wolfheart1982 1 year ago
@wolfheart1982 Nope. How your conscious awareness stands in relation to the collective unconscious is how you will see something. A mountain is a mountain, but it looks different depending where one stands in relation to it. A woman is a woman, but she's not the same woman to her first husband as to the second. A universe is a universe, but some of us are from Venus, others from Mars.
JamesNealFox 1 year ago
@JamesNealFox OK, now i understand better that idea of infinite intelligence, but how are you aware of or how can you perceive it, if everyone is standing at one point looking at the mountain? You can communicate to others to get a more complete picture of the landscape, but even then you will be standing at your own point; even if you change position you'll be at your own point.
wolfheart1982 1 year ago
@wolfheart1982 Well, fortunately others have been where you have been and stood where you are standing and have gone up ahead a little higher, and that's what most people go by if this is about actual inner experience. There's a lot's of maps, and the best ones all have a lot in common, so you begin to trust that, too.
JamesNealFox 1 year ago
@JamesNealFox That sounds good but I don't think it's possible since everybody has a different point of reference in their subconscious; even if they are were I am, they don't see exactly what I see. Im sure you can get a lot from those best maps, but also can be a little dangerous to trust the facts they have in common and claim as that.
wolfheart1982 1 year ago
@JamesNealFox (sorry, there wasnt enough space) Probably you'll see what I mean if we consider Inquisition, that was just possible because a lot of people trusted the map without actually knowing. Lets state that even when theres a lot of priests preaching as mechanical robots, theres a lot of clerics that are really wise men and have had them as a fundation justified, back then, all the torturing and killing.
wolfheart1982 1 year ago
@wolfheart1982 It's common on YouTube to be talking at cross purposes with someone. The Inquisition and higher consciousness brain wave states are apples & oranges. Self-mastery of brain waves is an empirical fact of meditation that can be graphed on an EEG. The maps I speak of have to do with this, not what a bunch of idiots & cynics make of the Bible.
JamesNealFox 1 year ago
@JamesNealFox Well, the bible is full of crap by itself, it doesnt need any help. But I think both things are not that far from each other. Church people is suppose to get closer to god (infinite intelligence) through paying, wich is similar to meditation (not sure about this); so, priests should have a higher state of consciousness (I just kind of understand this), therefore a certain level of mastery of their brain waves. Said that, seems an aberration how the events of inquisition took place.
wolfheart1982 1 year ago
@wolfheart1982 Couldn't disagree with you more, Wolf. Altered brain waves have nothing to do with prayer. Meditation does, when it's real. None of this is subject to debate. It's a matter of demonstrable fact on an EEG. The idea that the Bible Belt has deep alpha and theta states owing to their doctrines is ludicrous. Hook them up to an EEG and you'll see it's what their heads are about.
The maps I speak of speak to real states.
JamesNealFox 1 year ago
@JamesNealFox Of course it sounds ludicrous, but in the other side I don't think tibetan monks started meditation because they wanted to master their brain waves. I think discussion about it is possible because researchers have made clear that this explanation you give is hypothetical, the more plausible, but yet in the field of posibilities. The fact is that you alter your brain waves, what is not a fact is that you reach a higher state of consciousness.
wolfheart1982 1 year ago
@JamesNealFox Since in that upper state is suppose you reach a knowledge that is beyond the senses, it wolud also impossible to describe it or give any information about it. Taking back the praying issue, in meditation you're supposed to get rid of all bounds to the material world concentrating your mind on a divinity idea, repeating it, is not praying the same? you repeat the hail mary 100000 times, you focus on that idea of divinity as the tibetans monks do with their oms.
wolfheart1982 1 year ago
@wolfheart1982 I'm talking about an alteration of brain wave pattern that can be graphed on an EEG. End of discussion.
JamesNealFox 1 year ago
@wolfheart1982 they can't reach nothing becouse they are limited and they are meant to serve.
ONA5252 1 year ago
@ONA5252 to serve whom or what if they reach nothing?
wolfheart1982 1 year ago
@wolfheart1982 to serve their god. I've seen so many religious people and they act so lowly in front of their god , just like slaves do.
ONA5252 1 year ago
@wolfheart1982 "the bible is full of crap by itself"
Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not:
Jeremiah 5:21
The guy wrote that centuries ago, he knew already this was coming. What are your thoughts on Jesus?
danielrrjd 1 year ago
@danielrrjd sorry man but i lost track of this discussion, so if you could please tell me what are we talking about, would be nice.
wolfheart1982 1 year ago
@wolfheart1982 you wrote "the bible is full of crap by itself"
From the bible:
Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not:
Jeremiah 5:21
The guy wrote that centuries ago, he knew already this was coming. What are your thoughts on Jesus?
man, DO watch this:
watch?v=j1uwxltIQmE&feature=related
danielrrjd 1 year ago
@danielrrjd man, your writing style is really hard to understand. I suppose that "he knew already this was coming" you refer to "the bible is full of crap by itself" and you mean he knew there was gonna be people who don't believe what bible says. Well, there was, there is, and there will be, that's no new news. My thoughts on jesus are that he was an illiterate with good intentions, initiative and insanity.
wolfheart1982 1 year ago
By the way, Mr. Fox, excuse my comment about Venus, I was simply responding to a previous comment. Also excuse the number of comments, Insomnia's kicked in and when something interests me I go with it.
Someonedamn 1 year ago
Lucifer is not "the Devil" or "Satan" Lucifer is the lightbringer , but Ronald McDonald is the second coming of Jesus so it's all a bit confusing but you will get it eventually .
robotsrcrying 1 year ago
@robotsrcrying Thank you, Robotscrying, for straightening all that out for me. I'll act on your information right away & spread the word.
I've been such a fool!
JamesNealFox 1 year ago
@JamesNealFox: I love your sense of humor.
CelticWarrior1971 1 year ago
@CelticWarrior1971 Thanks.
JamesNealFox 1 year ago
excellent
5 stars
BlumoonNow 1 year ago
The Greek below means something like:
"Where there is faith there is love;
where love, peace;
where peace, benediction;
where benediction there is God:
Where, O God, no one is in need!"
I will send Retsina a message equal to her intent. For everyone else I'll just say this: Where there is peace, love is possible, and with love a little faith helps.
As for the rest: being blessed by a cruel god that requires blood atonement?
I don't think so . . .
JamesNealFox 1 year ago
Όπου πίστις αγάπη
Όπου αγάπη ειρήνη
Όπου ειρήνη ευλογία
Όπου ευλογία εκεί Θεός
Όπου ο Θεός ουδεμία εστίν ανάγκη
retsina12 1 year ago
I enjoy these videos (& I'm not even a Satanist); this was very well done. 2 questions: 1: do you feel that Venus answered your question about what Theisim is in re: to her Satanisim (I had to scroll through dozens of replies to find it) and 2: is that her face at the end of the vid w/the funky eyes?
anglomik 1 year ago
I'm not a Satanist, either.
No picture of Venus appears in the video and no image was intended to represent her.
As for whether Venus answered the question about theism, her reply was for me is faith-based, which until then I was not sure was her orientation. She believes Satan is a supernatural being, but the being did not exist prior to the universe. Still, the being is all-powerful and godlike, so a god is a god is a god.
Theistic.
"Spiritual' would be a better term.
JamesNealFox 1 year ago
Thank you, sir. I don't know why I couldn't seem to sort that out. This Spiritual-Seeking is a lot of work!
anglomik 1 year ago
I always thought it would be a good day when everyone i passed on the street were wearing dark trenchcoats and black sunglasses.
cityhall4all 2 years ago
A much better day when everybody's walking around naked.
JamesNealFox 2 years ago
If we are talking off the record then I agree. My significant other has borderline personality disorder (bpd), so naked girls kinda set her off. It's all very deep. Personally I'm quite proud of my unit but to be honest I'm not sure how comfortable I would be with everyone sizeing each other up. I suppose I will agree though, That would be nice.
cityhall4all 2 years ago
Well, everybody walking around naked probably wouldn't communicate to very many people, so let's say cool people who have some of the principles down and come to it with the right spirit would be the ideal.
As for everyday reality, I do usually walk around in sunglasses, so I appreciate your drift.
JamesNealFox 2 years ago
i have a serious question right there DOES SATAN EAT DOMINOZ PIZZA?? cause i heard that he likes it so much specially with cow BALLS so i think its a good sacrifice to get the cow balls and how lovely if u include the cow penis
KaremAboufarha 2 years ago
Well, I've never known Lucifer to order pizza, but my guess is that on questions like yours he either goes with the the flow of whatever crowd he's in with or, depending on circumstances, he might choose to shock sensibilities.
Of course, seeing as how he requires no ritual sacrifices and is insulted by the whole concept of sacrificial offerings, I'm pretty sure it's going to be your own balls on the altar by the end of the evening.
JamesNealFox 2 years ago
look man i will talk with you seriously satan is a creature, so how can i give my focus to a creature not to the creator??? if you're your own god for example as they say then you have the ability to control your soul and u will forbid your soul to die or to be taken and its absolutly wrong u live then u DIE. Think for a while after death to where your soul go and to whom??? to the CREATOR or to a creature???
Mr james with all due my respect i wish for all people a good life including you.
KaremAboufarha 2 years ago
# 1: You have no idea of my philosophy one way or another.
# 2: Your conclusions about what you think I am saying takes as true conclusions that have no evidence to support them one way or another.
# 3: You believe as you believe because you believe it.
# 4: You assume I believe as I believe because I believe it.
# 5 People who believe as they believe because the believe it who argue with others who believe what they believe because they believe it is just a lot of noise.
JamesNealFox 2 years ago
I have to agree with Fox here, I watch alot of VS videos ,and she has alot of information,my only crit is that sometimes she seems to put forth ideas she may be studying b4 she has developed a full understanding of the ideas,thats not bad if it was put forth as study and not as teaching, theistic satanism had to come after laveyan,it came about because many CoS members disagreed with lavey saying atheistic ,i/e temple of set,I am not a satanist,I am pagan,I can still recognise the contradiction
fraterlucifer888 2 years ago
The comment below disparages Venus, which is not the intent of this video. My impression is that she is a sincere person who does her thing.
I do not always agree with her, but I enjoy the energy she brings to what she does here at YouTube, and now and then I look into her blog.
JamesNealFox 2 years ago
Satanism is theism as they believe that they themselves are God.
Luciferianism is the worship of Lucifer as an Angel and not as Satan
Devil Worshippers - Believe in the Christian SATAN as God
boaz1144 2 years ago
Well, I put the term "Luciferan" in quotes because I decided that my own sense of things is probably at a distance from the usual categories.
I am essentially a process Wiccan.
Still, I have to question your cut & dry categories. Many people involved in all this would take exception, and "theism" is not defined as you state it here in any encyclopedia except in the very broadest sense--and there's a point when the broadest sense of a word gets pretty stretched.
JamesNealFox 2 years ago
@boaz1144 No you got Satanism wrong.
Satanism is theism and LaVey. You Can belive satan in real (theism) or that satan or god doesnt exsist (lavey satanism)
shivapatelmusic 2 years ago
I think the basic problem is that "theistic" satanist still in effect thru practise and ritual "worship" a satan as a real "theistic" spirtual being, they say they dont beilieve but I think that is a kind of rational in the point that they have yet to break free of material ideas of good and evil,they still hold to the idea of being adversary to christianity and some other religions so the relgion is not as much for personal growth as much as a kind of psychological feeling of well being,agree?
fraterlucifer888 2 years ago
It's hard to pin down Satanism because there can seem to be almost as many different kinds of Satanists as there are Satanists.
Defining against Jude-Christianity is a big rallying point for this camp. In my experience this was only a stage in my growth, not where I would build an entire philosophy.
As far as well-being vs. growth, that's so many different kinds of spirituality that I would not single out Satanism.
But I sure wouldn't exclude Satanism.
Consumer mindset.
JamesNealFox 2 years ago
well said, I think in my own limitated POV I would kind of single out satanism because they kind of go the extreme of singling themselves out, Ive gotten as much onesided argument out of satanists as any mormon or scientologist or jehovahs witness,even tho I recognise that as my own limited idea of satanism I wonder if you have an opinion on how they could make the transition above just rallying aganst other religions,is it possible for satanism as a philosophy/religion to embrace spirituality?
fraterlucifer888 2 years ago
Your best point is dynamic growth vs. static well being, and on that front I see individual Satanists maturing, sure; but I do not see Satanist culture producing covens that are a real force for this.
Narcissism has too much theoretical sway in the Satanic ethos.
Changing this would be to no longer really be Satanist; so by definition Satanism as a subculture is about static well being.
Downright borgeois, really.
JamesNealFox 2 years ago
@JamesNealFox Well Sir, I'll tell you this much. You're completely correct. I swear no two Satanists see Satanism the same way. MY personal view on it, is that Satanism isn't so much a religion, as a set of tenets, a guide if you will. Do I inherently believe in Satan, or God for that matter? Not as conscious beings. But Satanism makes the most sense to me, so I follow the word. Every Satanist views it in it's own way, which is the point. Individuality, which most other religions reject,
Someonedamn 1 year ago
@Someonedamn Well, as I say in Lucifer on Satanism the problem is that when a label can mean anything it means nothing. My morality is Wiccan, so I'll stand on that side of the room and take from what might be called Satanism as I will.
JamesNealFox 1 year ago
@JamesNealFox I can understand that general idea, however, any label can mean anything ultimately. It's what said label means to you that matters. Any religion comes down to what you take away from it, which no two people will take the exact same. Just as Satanism has those who run around yelling "Hail Satan", Wicca has people who run around the woods naked, and everything in between for both..
Either way, It's nice to see someone who actually trades ideas, and I thank you for that much.
Someonedamn 1 year ago
@fraterlucifer888 While being contradictory to religions such as Christianity (part of why it's named Satanism), true Satanists hold no grudge simply based on religion alone. Are there plenty of Christians that I hate? Most definitely, but because of the person, not the religion.
I'm also not very fond of the hypocrisy in religions, (including my own), but once again, that's more a trait of a person, or the nature of man itself, than a trait of the religion.
Someonedamn 1 year ago
@Someonedamn being pagan myself I kinda stumbled thru wicca some thelema and very rudimentary satanism,trying to define my inner mindset,I apriciate laveys pov and humor,hes a real contemporary philosopher,my basic outlook as pagan hasnt wavered and I can identify with satanism,I do try to avoid anything called religion and I wouldnt say being pagan is religion for me, spiritual and disciplined,but very personal,,I was up painting and now Im 1/2 asleep if Im rambling,blessings 888
fraterlucifer888 1 year ago
@fraterlucifer888 So if I understand you right, you follow what makes sense and ignore what doesn't? That's the best way to follow it, personalize it and make it your own. I'm a Satanist, but you dont ever see me running around saying "Hail Satan," carrying the Satanic Bible on my hip, or really any of the theatrics. However I do follow the tenets set forth, because they make sense to me and basically fit with my personality and beliefs anyway.
Someonedamn 1 year ago
@Someonedamn when I do see someone running around saying "Hail Satan" and shoving all the other trappings in everyone's face, I think that all they are doing is showing how desperate they are for attention. TRUE satanism is about following our basic human nature. All these ridiculous videos on here about conjuring demons and pole dancing to death metal -- C'mon already.
Dix994 1 year ago
@Dix994 *looks around and trashes his stripper pole real quick* of.....of course...... lol seriously though I agree whole heartedly..
Someonedamn 1 year ago
@Someonedamn ha ha - not that I have anything against strippers, mind you, used to be in the bus. myself...but I did it for money, not my ego.
Dix994 1 year ago
@Someonedamn Since morality is relative, it calls for communication as to what & who I am and what & who you are, so names and definitions become important or everything falls into miscommunication. So a name and definition that can mean anything and is strictly individual tends to have no social context at all. Communication breaks down routinely.
JamesNealFox 1 year ago
I have listened to quite a few of Venus Satanas's speils, and though she tries and seems to put quite a bit of effort into it, I don't think she has any real conviction, she is just spouting off things she has read - like many so called satanists, the main attraction to the life is the theatrics, no different than someone who thinks going to church on sunday makes them a christian.
Dix994 2 years ago
@Dix994 Exactly. Her game is very similar to other religious entities, build a blind following and make money. We got into a heated (and slightly ridiculous,mostly on her part) argument over this. Her videos are essentially glorified textbook readings, and then she hocks her wares on youtube. You're correct about Satanists in it for theatrics, While that's fine I guess, they miss the entire message behind Satanism, which in my opinion is to enjoy life while you have it, whatever that may entail.
Someonedamn 1 year ago
Not hard to build a blind following these days. I just can't relate to the need to stay in one little corner, to identify myself as one thing or the other....you'll find a statues of the Virgin Mary in my liv. room, buddha in the bedroom, a bible along with witchcraft and occult books on the shelves, signs of nature everywhere - I have experience w/ many religions, and from each one have found something to hold dear in my life. None of them represent me completely, nor would I want one to.
Dix994 1 year ago
To ArchDeacon's hot topic below: The reason the serpent is universally considered wise must have its roots in prehistoric times and relates to the fact that the serpent, a phallic symbol, was associated with shamans or priests reputed to have been all-wise.
There are other possible explanations. Jung would say it's archetypal. Possibly anything that slithers and creeps seems subtle from the start.
Still, for me my hunch banks on cultural desemination from a forgotten source.
JamesNealFox 2 years ago
Lucifer represented reason, logic, the cognitive mind, and the light of understanding. He tried unsuccessfully to overthrow the old primitive God of instinct, brutality, and the dark forces of the unconscious. Myths of a great battle between new and old gods abound all over the world. In Greek mythology, Zeus overcame the old god Kronos after a titanic struggle. Ancient Greeks rejoiced! Doesnt that tell you something about the Greeks, haha.
archdeaconj 2 years ago
It's all relative as far as all that about the Greeks, but, yeah, the transition to patriarchy has a lot to do with my point of view.
In India the coiled serpent is a metaphor for energy rising up the spinal cord. In the west the serpent is the fall guy.
The Greeks made him out to be the consort to the Goddess that got cast down from Olympus by Eurynome.
The Egytians saw him as the old sun god whom Set cast down.
And everybody knows the Bible stories.
JamesNealFox 2 years ago
I'm not sure what you mean when you say the parallel between the Lucifer myth in the OT and the Titanomachy is 'relative'.
Yes, Kundalini , the coiled serpent at the base of the spine, which represents primal energy, is revered in Hindu yogic philosophy, whereas the 'serpent' or 'snake' in the Bible comes to represent something evil. In other myths it represents wisdom. How do you explain all these different 'symbolic' meanings?
I agree about the transition from a matriarchal soc.
archdeaconj 2 years ago
By my remark about the Greeks I only meant that coming down on them gets pretty relative. Yes, the Greeks were repressive about certain mysteries, but other cultures were much worse about it.
So for me it's relative in that regard.
The divergence about serpent symbolism reflects the fact that the West, so to speak, murdered the Mother while the East kept her on as a ceremonial queen of sorts.
Her mysteries survived a few amputations, so her consorts were afforded more dignity.
JamesNealFox 2 years ago
Yes of course, different cultures had widely varying attitudes to Woman and these were naturally reflected in their myths. Yet why did the serpent, of all creatures, come to represent wisdom? One can perhaps understand why the energy rising from the base of the spine should put one in mind of a snake. And evil is just a value judgement, so no problem there. But what is there wise about a snake?
archdeaconj 2 years ago
The concept of wisdom & knowledge & gnosis associated with the serpent is universal. Even the garble in Genesis does little to obscure the assumption.
It is phallic. Circumcision, for example, was in all likelihood the snake shedding its skin, which I'm reasonably sure would have meant to make the organ more resemble the female clitoris & thus distinguish an uninitiated man from someone schooled in the Mother's ways.
Even the rising of kundalini is a discreet allusion to an erection.
JamesNealFox 2 years ago
Well, the symbolism of the serpent / snake representing wisdom or something like it is even found in cultures presumably isolated from one another which makes the problem more not less perplexing. The snake shedding its skin is usually offered an explanation for the snake as a symbol of renewal and theres another one: the snake as representative of renewal, eternal life etc. So again, why the snake / serpent as a symbol of wisdom?
archdeaconj 2 years ago
Somehow I get the feeling that you have an answer in mind.
Maybe not.
Jung would say it's the collective unconscious, but my leaning is that secret societies wandered around with this. Traces of their influence remain the local mythologies of one people or another.
They saw themselves as missionaries with no home base to be loyal to anymore since the base had sunk beneath the waves.
Contact with fellow groups broke down.
Everybody went native after awhile.
JamesNealFox 2 years ago
Why do think that? No, honestly, Im just curious. Hmm...wonder why you thought that. I just find it puzzling. I mean, do snakes look wise? Do they have any anthropomorphic features that convey wisdom? Not to my mind maybe Im missing something. There must be some reason, of course. I dont recall Jung saying the snake is a symbol of the unconscious? In any case, why should the snake represent the unconsciousness? Itd be as puzzling as why the snake should represent wisdom.
archdeaconj 2 years ago
Sorry, I also meant to add: even if the snake does represent the unconscious (which would be yet another symbolic meaning of the snake / serpent) it also represents wisdom, and this still requires an explanation. (I'm not saying you're not right about Jung linkiing it with the unconscious - just that I can't recall it).
archdeaconj 2 years ago
Well, we're talking at cross purposes. I did not mean that the serpent represents the unconscious, only that the universality of its being a symbol of wisdom suggests an a priori archetype.
I'm not that sold on that premise.
I only mentioned it to point out that this would be Jung's take on any question of this sort about most any symbol.
The snake is phallic. Sex magic is universal. The phallus is power, etc.
The shaman is the wise man.
The rest is cultural desemination.
JamesNealFox 2 years ago
Why did you think I had 'an answer in mind'? You didn't say.
Well of course, virtually all mythological symbolism has its roots in archetypes. That is where its power derives.
Yeah, I know about the snake as representative of the phallus - that's hardly a source of perplexity. What IS a source of perplexity, to me - and it would seem to you too - is why the snake should ever have come to represent WISDOM.
archdeaconj 2 years ago
Well, I'm not really very perplexed by it at all. A priesthood with a serpent as its primary symbol gains a reputation for wisdom, so their main symbol comes to be associated with wisdom, that's all.
As for areas where the priesthood is unknown there remains the glaring fact that the erect phallus defines the shaman in most any cave painting.
The shaman is considered wise, and so what defines him, his phallus, is understood to be one brainy all-knowing penis.
JamesNealFox 2 years ago
OK.,so you dont want to tell me why you thought I had an answer in mind.
At last, though, you are addressing the snake / wisdom question. You suggest that cults which had serpents as their primary symbol (whatever it may have represented), had shamans / priests who were considered wise and therefore the symbol of the serpent came to be associated with wisdom. Hmm. Well, in that case, why don't ALL the primary symbols of ALL cults represent wisdom?
archdeaconj 2 years ago
Why did I suspect you might have an answer in mind? Well, you can't seem to let the subject go, and people this intent on a topic usually have a lot to say about it--at least in my experience they do.
This suggests an agenda.
An argument for its own sake seems unusual on YouTube.
Usually the person has something they're trying to advance or defend.
Name one male cult with prehistoric roots where the greatest god was not either all-wise or all-powerful or both.
JamesNealFox 2 years ago
Oh, I see.
Well, I dont mind polemic, tho' in this case I thought an exchange between two people both into mythology might lead somewhere, if we stick with the issue and respond to (not ignore) each others points.
Name one? The Phoenician deity Adonis? Ares? Pan? OK, most are all wise / powerful. Carry on. Why shouldnt the bull, the ankh, the golden fleece...and so on and on...have come to represent wisdom, as the serpent did, given the priests were invariably wise.
archdeaconj 2 years ago
Okay, Arch, let's hone this down. The universality of a symbol suggest prehistoric roots that go way waaay back for it to be universal in the first place.
How many of your deities pass that litmus?
Possibly Adonis in one form or other, fertility guy, consort, etc.
Neolithic age.
But was Adonis ever anywhere in any culture or any form the greatest male deity?
Sorry, no.
Name a really old greatest god that was not either wise or all-powerful or both.
JamesNealFox 2 years ago
Recap: You have suggested that the serpent came to represent wisdom because whatever it originally represented (renewal, sexuality, primal energy etc.) the priests of the cult were considered wise and so the snake symbol came to be associated with wisdom. I don't see why. The cross didn't come to represent wisdom despite the Church having a monolopoly on education. The bull cults had wise priests but the bull never represented wisdom. So what's special about the snake / serpent?
archdeaconj 2 years ago
Very poor recap. Go back over what I have actually said, set it in context, and answer my actual question.
Read it as many times as it takes, then answer my question.
JamesNealFox 2 years ago
Oh come on, that's not how to engage in a debate. You think I haven't paraphrased you correctly. Fair enough, but tell me HOW you think I have misrepresented you.
archdeaconj 2 years ago
Arch, keep in mind that the judge of this talk is not you or me. It's those who give it a glance.
At this point I'm only allowing this exchange to go on a little further to demonstrate to others that I'm willing to have a discussion insofar as it's actually a discussion and not just someone playing contrarian and either unable or unwilling to to answer a question posed.
You won't answer the question. You only attack the question.
Prehistoric roots. Male god.
Give me a name.
JamesNealFox 2 years ago
Most people who watch this video realize it's neighborly. Venus & I get along fine. She replied to this video somewhere down below.
Anybody can see she doesn't feel attacked.
I've only gotten 4 negative comments. One of them from somebody obviously unstable; another one from somebody who thought I was gay and has judgments about gays.
I'm straight.
Someone else thought I was trying to make time with Venus.
For anyone who IS trying to make time with Venus, she's married.
JamesNealFox 2 years ago
LIL
LUCIFER IS LIGHT
kiedog250 2 years ago
No worries; I usaully skim through the religious/spiritual type channels now and then. I wasn't trying to label your ideas or beliefs. I noticed that there was some general confusion(to include myself). I have noticed that there is a lot of variation in what people on the internet consider "luciferian" and "satanic" than I had always accepted as being the associated schools of thought. It is very interesting to hear your view-points and what how they are viewed by others.
Danrathernot 2 years ago
I've toyed with calling myself "Luciferan" and used the word in the video, but, as you say, everybody has their own ideas on it. Basically I practice Wiccan morality and believe any god or goddess is just a projection our minds put on the Infinite, which is ultimately incomprehensible.
Lucifer for me is largely symbolic.
Peace . . .
JamesNealFox 2 years ago
cont': not trying to be insulting, i really just don't quite understand what your trying to articulate.
Danrathernot 2 years ago
Well, I don't quite understand you, either; but I did go to your page for a clue, and you're welcomed to the same with my page.
With this one particular video it could be that you're coming in the middle of a kind of conversation between two people that you don't know very well.
I was going over where my point of view diverged from Venus', that's all. I don't recall the issue of being bad coming up or wanting to be bad or even calling myself a Satanist.
JamesNealFox 2 years ago
If you call yourself a satanist you are assuming the role of the advisary. There are forces at work in the universe; if you don't think so jump off a tall building. That doesn't mean you have to diefy them like some kind of ignorant villager(southern baptist).You would would call yourself a free-loving hippie, agnostic, or --insert religion here-- who wants to "act bad", or some such non-sense. Lucifer would also be kinda regarded as "uncle sam" as a symbol of illumination(from dogma).....
Danrathernot 2 years ago
"Panentheism"...is just another word for "Chaos" ? and are you trying to suggest that reglion is just a idea that is open to everything,but attached to nothing, A belief or a tenet contary to a recieved opinon.
catbird007 2 years ago
"Panentheism" as in process theology, which has long been a way for spiritual people in the west to reconcile their traditions with eastern philosophy.
I don't see how someone would get chaos out of it.
You have an interestng way of putting things. Panentheism for me is about experience, so beliefs come & go according to what's meaningful to a person's process.
In my experience the Zen of neo-paganism.
No bottom line.
JamesNealFox 2 years ago
So, then to say Panentheism is selective; because it is a belief system that is held by one's own point of view ....I am reminded of the tale about the " Tower of Babel"...and the end result of that .... uniformity into chaos.
catbird007 2 years ago
Oh, I see what you're saying now. Zen is about a widening of perception and raising consciousness levels beyond alpha. None of this need have anything to do with morality one way or another.
Meanwhile people, enlightened or unenlightened, do make laws and get along, and their understanding of good law & bad evovles with awareness & changing times.
In a free society this becomes a matter of representional consensus.
JamesNealFox 2 years ago
I should add that Panentheism is a very broad category. Eastern philosophy is agog in all kinds of absolute moral precepts. Western process theology attempts to reconcile the Sermon on the Mount with a progressive humanist agenda.
Panentheism cannot get enough of morality, but for where I'm coming from I'm not exactly convinced.
Better to be honest and leave it at everybody finding their own way.
JamesNealFox 2 years ago
Then what is truth?..
catbird007 2 years ago
Truth is surmised by results. A fly cannot understand human experience. A human is as a fly to some mysteries out there, but a fly can know its own sphere, and humans enjoy the opportunity of pushing the frontier on their own sphere, which keeps it interesting.
JamesNealFox 2 years ago
luceferian?
is that like a rastafarian...but from someone named lucy?
rok30 2 years ago
Dude, you mispelled "Luciferan". That's probably why you're thinking about Lucy--or maybe it's because you're thinking of Lucy that you spelled it "Luceferian".
I'm sure you've got a lot of good reasons for Lucy being on your mind.
I''ve been there, but these days, hey, Lucy is ancient history to me.
So if you two have found one another, cool.
I hope it works out.
JamesNealFox 2 years ago
luciferians believe in fallen angels
lucifer disagreed with god and he banished him and bla bla
htyhh 2 years ago
I am very impressed with Ford. I do have his main book. I subscribe to his videos.
I have a difference with him on morality, I think, and Venus has caught him at least one in an intellectual lapse.
But the energy's there.
JamesNealFox 2 years ago
The point?
Venus Satanas possesses an unmistakable energy, but I believe that for such energy to flourish everywhere, for it to become a part of the basic fabric of a culture, it requires a more rigorous framework than most give it.
Someone has suggested that my video has no point.
Well, the point is that it is a good thing for people to ask questions, clarify points, and generate discussion.
That is the point.
JamesNealFox 2 years ago
i think this is pointless. I am a ortodox christian. I come from atheistic family and i had many expiriances that lead me into christianity. People follow their basic instinct in this thing we call belief,not some funamental study of some self-important allknowing figure. I watched VenusSatanas's videos and i think she is very inteligent young woman. I think she has the point in her theory that satan is the force on earth or some kind of spiritual essence...not an actual entity.
AngelsWingsINFanatis 2 years ago
Venus and I get along fine. We have subscribers in common. The video was meant to open a line of communication with her. It succeeded.
So much for its being pointless.
There's just things I can't always reconcile in her talks, that's all; the same as I cannot reconcile some of your remarks when you call yourself Orthodox.
As for essence vs. entity, you're in my sphere there, not necessarily hers.
It's for her to say as much, but she never really has.
JamesNealFox 2 years ago
No,no,you know what i meant when i said pointless. I dont know how much you know about ortodox christianity and the dogmas that separated the church,back in Roman empire. We have so much diffrent approach in our belief and there are no christian fundamentalists...whom i hate and would rather make friends with a satanist. I won't bother your communication any more,sorry for the bug! You have some great videos on your channel though.
AngelsWingsINFanatis 2 years ago
You are not bugging me. Now, really, I guess I am not sure what you mean by "pointless".
Incidentally my old man leaned Orthodox toward the end, so, see, I do know Orthodoxy a bit, okay?
I may know it more than you might think.
So, if you care to, let me in on what you meant by pointless.
If you care to.
If not, then have a nice day, anyway.
Thanks for dropping by.
JamesNealFox 2 years ago
you sound like william shatner
TheMagiciseverywhere 2 years ago
I am William Shatner. I just call myself Fox to keep my spiritual and show biz lives separate.
Yes, just kidding . . .
JamesNealFox 2 years ago
@ VenusSatanas. I'm not quite sure i understand but i have a better idea. O.o it's not quite what i believe but it is good to have such gaps. discussing differing beliefs civilly and without anger is a great way to grow spiritually. anyway, i was wondering, if Satan came after earth was mad, and perhaps after man..and man created the idea of satan, (or maybe the prototypical idea) then worshiped him or her (can a spirit have a true gender?) then who really holds the power over the universe?
tanukioh 2 years ago
Stories are just stories, a matter of what someone makes of them. As for who controls the universe, nobody does. Its just there. Aligning yourself with its mysteries is a good way of getting along with the universe, so go for it.
Part of Venus thing with No Creator is she doesnt care for the idea of the Big Owner up in the sky. Neither do I. Personally I am glad the universe has no Owner.
No Owner, no lease, no hassle over the rent.
JamesNealFox 2 years ago
I see. Thank you for clearing that up. :D
tanukioh 2 years ago
If your a theist then you belive in at least one deity?Then you deny this later in the comment .Your justification is poor surely honesty is the best policy?.Anyway no harm done but your miles off using levyan satanism to justify theistic satanism.Cant you just be a devil worshipper? hoho
melwyn777 2 years ago
I believe she stated her views quite well. True they are different from what one might expect, and in fact are not quite in line with many people's view of the term "theist". But these do not make her mistaken. Terms mean different things to different people, even within the same culture. Her idea of the term does not coincide perfectly with yours, causing a gap.
you follow? O.o sorry i talk really really strange sometimes.
tanukioh 2 years ago