Interesting response, and you bring up some great points. But I think you overlook a few things:
1) Peter Joseph presents the Resource Based Economy as the only alternative because no one has presented another one. He doesn't present it as the only POSSIBLE alternative.
2) Although his use of sarcasm is hypocritical, I think it was a result of PJ segueing back from the RBE into the idea that being against the "free" market is somehow Marxist; I don't think he was obfuscating like Stepan was.
@MegaJay79 We are in a dictatorship. Your votes don't count for shit, want the puppet on the right? Or the puppet on the left?
A Resource Based Economy has nothing to do with the democratic process that either does or does not take place in the government. A real democracy would allow the entire population to vote on the agenda rather then a fraction of a fraction of the population to force their agenda. The Anonymous movement ideology embraces a lot of what this real democracy would look like.
Revolution is a way of changing the government. All of this Zeitgeist movement was created by the same people it is talking about. It is a way of initiating a revolution and creating this one world socialistic gov. Hitler made the statement: I have no use for knights; I need revolutionaries.
Revolution is a way of changing the government. All of this Zeitgeist movement was created by the same people it is talking about. It is a way of initiating a revolution and creating this one world socialistic gov. Hitler made the statement: I have no use for knights; I need revolutionaries.
@2bornot2b1984 if i said to you, the most economic way to travel from point A to B is in a straight line, is that my bias opinion? or is that actually cold, scientific reasoning? i dont understand why you take such a determined stance. are you happy with the way the world is?
This is total fail. Here is why: The designer is irrelevant, the design itself is relevant. The design is meant to DIVIDE, through distributive justice, the earths natural resources to the population of it. I don't see how ANY ONE or GROUP is going to decide how the resources are going to be given out. You're worrying about something quite silly.
Thank you TheCozmikTruth for bringing out this concern. I agree with most of what PJ said in his movies, but this is where I part from him as well. However, with those concerns being met I think middle path that is decentralized, with some othe modifiers is viable.
@MegaJay79 people would have more power over there lives because they wouldn't have to make money to live. its not like there would be a computer system that branded you at birth for a specific profession. its not orwellian...and the vast majority of laws and crimes ARE about money.
I used to think Zeitgeist was the best film anybody could see. But looking back on it recently, I've realised that all it does is attack the government, attack Christianity, and promote Multiculturalism. Oh wow, it tells us about 911. but who hasn't heard all the theories?
yes it is true that a computer will control and managed resources but not one person will program it, no an entire planet will program the computer, and if your fear of elitist humans trying to take over this computer system is irrelevant cuz those people were raised to think that gaining and taking for yourself is the key to happiness and longevity. We are trying to change to environment to teach children that giving is the key to happiness not taking cuz it will come back to them in the end
@miesrah12 Ever heard of open source? It means anyone can change the code of a program. It also means that someone with bad intent can corrupt the program , but any change that isn't in the best interest of everybody will quickly be spotted and corrected. Open Source is the future.
@TheCozmikTruth You neglect to offer up another alternative. If you have one please feel free to share it because I haven't heard of anything better than the RBE.
I wanted to gather as much information of your opinions as I could, but the videos of your earlier challenges are Private. Can you please make them available? Thanks.
TZm won't say,"Nope, we have to fololow what was said previously." That's the beauty of it, we can, as a society, put ideas in and object to it, but support our objections with facts. We need a model city to test the idea out. Did you miss this info?
Your point is fair, but once you take into effect that people aren't "naturally selfish" and it's only the environment causing people to become selfish in order to adapt and survive to the society, then you'll see that it's is possible. But still needs to be tested. There are problems and hurdles, but the more the public learns of it, the more minds there are. If you decide usuing old cities instead of building new one's is better, bing it up with evidence.
Also as others have said before in their comments, the computers are controlled by us. Why would there be hackers? Everyone (most) has no use for the power, in fact, it would just affect their lifestyle becasue they would be tampering with what keeps not only the city but themselves alive. That's mentality of today, but hopefully, later on most will see that once all their needs are met, they should better themselves in w/e they want.
When did he say there aren't more than two choices? Actually, I remember hearing Peter mention that you can choose whichever you want. However, he also mentions he finds it hard to believe that you can continure this system if say, we have RBE implemented in. Peter mentions that there could be subgroups of people doing i.e capitalism in separate areas like there are today (i.e Amish). Peter and TZM actually advocate for the fact that you can choose. You were misinformed and just assuming.
@Axxess7777 its not a computer designed for giving out resources, its only gonna track them and point out problems, it is us as a species to simple take these resources and make stuff with them. Just gonna be a big ass calculator and nothing more
Our current system is such a mess, so sick and destructive to people and our planet, and it's collapsing right now on many levels: financial, environmental, social. Do we want scientists, inventors, technicians, etc. leading the way into the future... or should we stick with the politicians, lawyers, military men, banking and corporate interests who've brought us to this brink of collapse??
You're missing the point of this computer-system, and the fact that no one's opinion will affect how resources are oriented – the system will be programmed to utilize resources in an optimized fashion, meaning that your opinion has no influence, nature dictates how fast a resource is replenished, not you or someone else, and this is what the system will be based on.
I'm a programmer, and programmers often let the system decide whether or not resources are available or not (ie. idle-cleanup).
ITS A MOVEMENT... Not a destination. It will alter and evolve as necessary as time goes on... You fucked up by attacking Peter Joseph, and not the movement itself... Good Day
You have many points that i have also, even though i support the movement. you are being realistic and i'm glad you bring out these points because i hope there is a solution. I really hope you get a reply from Peter Joseph
@3:23 "a state of abundance will eliminate...." then you go to show rockefeller.
false premises, PJ talks about a state of abundance for all people. clearly rockefeller is wealthy, but there the poor still exist. you really took this point another route bruh.
i think TVP is a great idea, not a perfect system but still great and much better than we have atm and i would love to see it in action... However it is nice to see someone with fairly constructive critisim and clear questioning of the system rather than just some ignorant arrogant idiot screaming "this wont work, its shit" I hope PJ does answer you. I'll be intrigued as to what he has to say. For that i will be hitting the like button on this vid.
and we take and even further step back we can see that you failed to read all the information about the project and you ask question that most have been answered in the movement or the radio bits, and like some people already said here... its still a WORK IN PROGRESS
the ideas peter promotes are a solution to get out of the selfdestructive cycle we are currently in.
from what i understand, hes rather negative towards the question; is mankind ready and mature enough for such a considerably huge adjustment.
in other words, he dont think it can be done. he dont think people are listening. atleast not before a major failure/collapse occure in our present structure of society.
i dont want to put words in his mouth, but this is my impression of his thouhts.
Unfortunately there is not enough space here to effectively comment on this video but I suggest you watch "Peter Joseph's Response to Stefan Molyneux [Zeitgeist: Moving Forward]" a few more times before bringing up questions already answered and familiarize yourself more with the Zeitgeist Movement and Venus Project before condemning it.
This is hilarious. The author simply repeats all of Sefan's errors. All of them. They are too numerous to describe. The worst one was the example of the rich people. He states that because the rich have access to abundance, that they should benefit everyone. The author is equivocating on the definition of rich. If you actually understood the concepts of TZM you know that wealth is not abundance, but merely extreme waste. That is why those people are so despicable. Awful rebuttal.
I just can't fathom that ownership is somehow a really important part of our culture that cannot be removed or we lose our humanity... It's massively inefficient even when you take business and cost efficiency out as you may have considering your stance on our current system
would you rather own a plastic, low quality, short life span camera several times or would you rather have access to a camera that is the highest quality, the most durable and user friendly camera we could possibly build
this is a very strange counter argument... however there are some reasonable points. however - it does still seem like you are just criticizing for the sake of it. Firstly the answer to your question about people that don't want to be part of the system - then let them but they simply won't get the help of the greatest scientific minds on our planet, because those are the people that will be programming computers etc. also you fail to realize that there is little distribution of power
@HoobtheNoob In other words it is likely that there are to be many people who have the skills to operate and access information - information would be free as would anything else - so it would be very easy for people to find out about corrupt behavior and get the word out. not only that the people that get to high positions of clout or 'power' will be there only as a result of public opinion - are not guaranteed to stay there and as such have to moderate their behavior
@HoobtheNoob A lot of your points seem to have grown out of a fundamental misunderstanding, or simple observations and assumptions that neglect the overall point, I mean the people who come from rich families do what they do BECAUSE we have a stratified society and they need to keep doing it to keep it that way - I mean no government behavior is really motivated by anything other than profit may it be personal or national. the idea is not to hope people will change but to remove negative stimuli
You'll never get an answer from "Peter Joseph" about what will be done to people who don't want to give up rationality. Communism is all about deception, not reason. They dangle the carrot in front of you. What they decide to do with you if they ever get the power will not come from any consideration of your rights as an individual. Such people do not even consider ethics. Only the ends matter. If you obstruct their utopian "just" ends, you become the enemy of "progress."
@MillionthUsername again, you misunderstand the concept - I suggest you watch more media from the movement and the venus project there is lots available - If you still call it communism after that you have failed to really listen to the information - there is no money - there are no dictators. It is not an existing system so don't make arguments against communism as if it's relevant
@HoobtheNoob Don't be naive. As the poster says in this video, it's not what they say but what they don't say. They are presenting you with a totalitarian system. I have watched some of their videos. I think they are completely ignorant, not only of economics but of how society works. You will not hear them talk about an ethical system or individual rights because they are not promoting liberty. People are a means to an end for them. It's collectivism flat out, in your face.
@MillionthUsername incredible how you claim they know nothing about economics and society. this is entirely irrelevant.
1. economics in the venus project is simply the management of resources rather than money
2. this is not totalitarian, there is no power to inherit.
also the way you automatically dismiss such a broad phrase as 'collectivism' automatically like a closed minded patriot... the term is irrelevant. it's technocratic - the people that know the most relevant info make the choices
@MillionthUsername in what ways is it lies and deception, I don't think you get it, this isn't a political party it's a concept of sustainable equality...
jacque f talks about his concept in the context of humanistic morality - the basic morality that exists in all of us - you do unto others what you would have done to yourself
he could make some really decent money and spend his life enjoying the benefits but he travels the world and lectures on how to create sustainable peace and development.
@MillionthUsername I mean the whole idea of all the science explained in moving forward - about human development is to get to the truth about human nature and determine that we can create an altruistic culture via abundance. almost all crime is motivated by money..
they didn't come to this conclusion in order to impose their idea - the idea is based on the basic understanding that environment shapes behavior. if this were not the case - the project would be based on other understandings
@HoobtheNoob The abundance we do have has been created by the free market, not by collectivist daydreaming. Labor and money exist precisely because of the nature of the world. No one is against technology; it's just that these people are simply using technology as a way to entice you into collectivism.
Technology comes from people being free to create, to trade, to make their own decisions, not from techno-bureaucrats "managing resources." That is called communism, nice videos notwithstanding.
@MillionthUsername WRONG. the free market does not create abundance - technology does the free market system has allowed for distribution of inferior goods and the most wasteful inefficient society to date - coupled with the most systematic intrinsic death there has ever been.
the free market is a distribution system - it creates nothing. labour and money exist not because of the nature of the world but because of the nature of the world a century ago. times change.
@HoobtheNoob "the free market does not create abundance - technology does"
Where do you think technology comes from - the command of bureaucrats? You see, you are completely ignorant of even basic economics. What you are saying here is just absurd. If you don't advocate a free market, then what the HELL are you advocating? And how are you going to deal with people who do not want to give up their liberty and property to you? Does that question even cross your mind?
@MillionthUsername you have a typical case of so engrossed in our current system that you can't imagine what a system without money would be like... economics is IRRELEVANT
it's voluntary basis - but I'm pretty sure some 'third world' countries we oppress would jump at the idea...
the thing is those people can live as they choose but due to the way the system would work - the venus projects society would advance much quicker than any other - they would be left behind with their money
UNBELIEVABLE! So you don't need to economize resources? Then why the hell are they calling it "sustainable" if economics is irrelevant? You can't be serious.
"it's voluntary basis"
So they're going to convince people to voluntarily give them their money and property so that they can "manage resources," even though "economics is irrelevant"?
Why don't they talk about rights and ethics then? Is it because LIBERTY is antithetical to this "vision"?
@MillionthUsername I meant monetary economics - other than this I don't see what your issue is
the reason they don't talk about morality is because they don't want to get dragged into a moral argument with religious criticisms etc.etc. the point is that liberty and ethical behavior is a given - they don't talk about it a lot and the reason is because WHY ELSE WOULD THEY BE DOING IT. it's a system designed to free people from work, I mean come on... the current system enslaves people into it
@HoobtheNoob How the hell is "monetary economics" IRRELEVANT? Money is an invention which solves the problem in barter of not having exactly what another wants when they trade with you. It's a commodity which is the most widely accepted in trade so that it acts as a medium of exchange for everyone. It allows us to trade, and also to have liquid savings.
The reason they don't talk about ethics, liberty, property, rights, etc;, is because that would give them away. They are social planners.
@MillionthUsername Look. you obviously don't understand the idea and haven't watched enough media about it if you don't even understand the basic concept of getting rid of money. In this system money is not used because it is the root cause of almost all social ills.
if you can't imagine a world without money that's fucking sad for you, but that's the only way to significantly improve our social system
and they also do talk about these things, you were obviously too ignorant to listen, watchmore
@HoobtheNoob Money is NOT the "root cause of almost all social ills." The cause of social ills is injustice which is mostly perpetrated by the state. Money is a commodity that people trade for other commodities. In a free society, people own their own resources and produce goods and services to trade with one another. This leads to a productive, prosperous, and peaceful society.
We all have a right to the fruit of our labor (money) and the right to choose how we trade with others.
@MillionthUsername I mean if you actually want to understand the best and most forward thinking social design - then do watch zeitgeist moving forward - if you have and you still talk about the system like you do then I'm sorry but you have simply not listened to a lot of the info because all of your concerns are addressed
@HoobtheNoob Oh, it's a "social design"? You mean it's centrally planned? By who?
I watched a lot of videos and the more I watch the worse it gets. This stuff is utter crap. It's lies and deception about the free market, economics, society, everything. A world without money is a world where you are at the mercy of the technocrats that these people want to be in charge of all of your needs and wants. It is a slave society because money, i.e., property, is "eliminated." It's insane.
I've seen the films. They are filled with absurdities. For example, they say that technological development is in direct competition with human labor, and therefore machines are going to throw us out of work. Then in the next breath, they talk about their utopia being totally automated! They're trying to pretend like economies don't expand. It's simply FALSE. They are saying progress is bad - unless it's their silly utopia of course. Garbage.
@MillionthUsername the current 'democratic process' is simply a dictatorship in disguise. and a shit disguise too. If you'd have actually watched material from fresco then you would know the idea is that the system of government is regulated by everyone - because everyone is the government people would be educated in such a generalist manner that they could make informed decisions - right now most people that vote are completely ignorant of the system of society they live in.
@HoobtheNoob "the current 'democratic process' is simply a dictatorship"
No kidding. But neither that nor the fact that the central banking fiat money system is a fraud has anything to do with what these people are proposing. I am against "democracy" and coerced fiat money and central banking. Plus I am in favor of technology and progress. I know few who aren't. But ZM seems to set up a false dichotomy between how things are now and its imagined collectivist utopia. That is disingenuous.
@MillionthUsername I've gotta be honest dude you sound like a complete retard right now... technological development is in competition with JOBS - if there are no jobs because of automation then we don't need to work - if there is no money we don't need jobs. It's a simple concept to be honest.
they do not pretend economies don't expand - they say that the way our economy is based on oil it's very bad for it to expand because it uses resources unsustainabley
@MillionthUsername freedom to YOU is people owning their own stuff etc. because you have a narrow minded concept of freedom.
is it free to be enslaved into a job because you need money to survive? or is it more free to have all the necessities of life freely available to you so that you can work on your own life intelligence and creativity
if there was no money then why would people commit crime? because they don't need it to buy things - it's worthless, and those things are free anyway so why?
@HoobtheNoob You're right, no one will commit crime. Money is slavery. Work is slavery. Robots will provide for all your needs. You will never have to work.
Ahhhh, the resort to Godwin's Law, gotta love pointing out fallacies in people's arguments B-) (And that by the way, was an appeal to ridicule, thought you might wanna know).
First off... Naming particular groups that are competing for advantage over other groups is not cooperation. It's like saying that all the teams in the nfl cooperate. They are simply trying to beat eachother out. The purpose of all the groups you have mentioned "ad agencies, banking services, investors, and creditors" are all in exsistence to make money. Not to help one another, And as for the point of Hitler. He was allowed to take power because ppl let him. It's people that matter.
The question is "Why would somebody program a computer to harm others?" It's a good question. In our current system it's very easy to see why people would want to gain material advantage over others. It's a system where competition instead of cooperation is valued. People of the future will understand that if we cooperate we thrive. If we compete we fail. The examples of this in nature are numerous and convincing.
@cdogknight666 "It's a system where competition instead of cooperation is valued. "
Really? Anywhere I've worked, we've co-operated with suppliers, rental agents, and delivery services. Then there's ad agencies, banking services, investors, and creditors. Not to mention each other. That's a whole lot of cooperation. Surprising for something that's "not valued".
@jeffiek that is called a "group" while a group may work together it is still competing against other groups, unless of course anywhere you've worked has never had another company competing against it?
can you explain how our current monetary system is not a monoculture? Also provide an argument of how a resourced based a economy could collapse? It is also stated clearly in the film you sourced that everyone doesn't have to live in a resourced based economy, it comes down to choice. It is a bit of a reach to state that people will never be exposed to the VP values. You really have not stated any faults with the technical design stated in moving forward.
"technical design stated" - irrelevant, people are not machines. The atomic bomb is not technically flawed. I sure as hell wouldn't go around using them.
there is more than 2 choices, do you offer a better total system? Bringing up that Peter Jopeh uses sarcasim in his film is the only logical flaw you can find to support your argument? The3 central computer will be a calculator, a tool nothing more, what motive can you provide in a society where peoples needs are met they will seek power, in its own right? with the open sourced nature of the software, how can this be done? the rich of this current system are groomed by culture to pursue power,
Plus I like the way this Documentary has come across, its not forcing you to do anything its just there to make you think, Alot of haters for the Zeitgeist movement think we should be out there doing things NOW to make them believe hahaha, it even makes me laugh when you call it a religious group, I dont believe in religion but I know what you are saying when you call TZM that,it really has to start with just one person in doing what they can do for the survival of our peopel and planet!
You will be able to look at the computer online and see what its doing so you can be well informed of the decisions its making,remember everyone has a say not just a few selected people, makes me think you havent really understood the documentary?
I would rather be in the RBE living well each day being able to have a home, being able to study when I want and do what I want when I dont feel like studying, I do get a feeling it will be hard to change as alot of todays fun and pleasures could be taken away, but like I have said in my previous comments, why were these put here, human kind could of achieved soo many great things if we focused on the well being of a person and our planet
@patuhenry - The problem is you assume that the RBE is going to be idyllic. You don't stop to think that the price system creates a more equitable distribution of resources than this supercomputer that has no logic. In addition, whomever designs and programs this said supercomputer will have ultimate control of your existence. Putting this level of power in the hands of 1 person or 1 group is sheer idiocy. In addition, is distribution of resources interrupted when this computer crashes?
@patuhenry - So, should the computer crash, there will be widespread panic and likely starvation. I'm sorry, I cannot bring myself to the side of Zeitgeist that cedes 100% control of 100% of resources to 1 entity, which is whoever designs this computer. What if they're corrupt and aim only to fulfill their needs? What then?
Also, egalitarianism is a revolt against nature. If you want to make nature laugh, tell her your plans. What happens in case of natural disasters like plague and famine?
@Slipknotyk06 well Im not saying the computer wont crash but I believe we can minimise this from happening, this is something that will have to be discussed, I hope you know that TZM thinking is always a step ahead of what todays thinking using entails, you see money doesnt have anything to do with technology so more resources can be put onto the computer/computers, we live in a world that deters us away from our actual survival as a species, rather watch Jersey shore then watch about libya,
@patuhenry - I reject your assertion that TZM is somehow ahead of the Free Market. In the cases of computer crashes, natural disasters, etc, flow of resources isn't interrupted for very long.
So, you're trying to state that we are somehow worse off now because we seek time for leisure?
Money is a medium of exchange that allows profits/losses to be calculated so the most efficient use of resources can be calculated through the price system. TZM has nothing nearly as efficient.
@Slipknotyk06 - In the Free Market, this flow of resources isn't interrupted for long. However, because of the global infrastructure of Zeitgeist, these interruptions can last months or even years. The power isn't de-centralized, but is HIGHLY centralized.
Anyone that's ever been in the military knows how easy it is to destroy a central target, and induce mass confusion, hysteria, fear, and then take advantage of the resulting panic.
@Slipknotyk06 I dont know what you mean, price system? you mean to tell me my country which has been hit with a bad earthquake leaving 150 dead and 10billion dollars in debt and growing! is a great profit /loss system? you should not be able to put a price tag on humanity! this is ridiculous and cruel, like Ive told alot of people please come up with a better system and I will have a look at it, other then that your money system cripples it doesnt cure!
@patuhenry - I'm going to take your straw man because even though it is a fallacy, it's the only point worth while here.
No, I'm not assigning a price tag to life. If it wasn't for the Capitalist infrastructure and exchange of ideas and technologies, the death toll would be FAR worse. What most Zeitgeist supporters don't understand is inherent in their ideology, the development of technology stalls as there is no one assigned to continue this development. What if it was 1920s technology in NZ?
@Slipknotyk06 you seem to think with limited thought, the system hasnt even been brought in and youre making assumptions? the goal is for the well being of humans, equality!!! to live in harmony with our natural resources, and to use technology and science to help us achieve this. stop looking at this as your own negative way you view the world! if you dont believe in this then thats fine but really NO ONE has come up with anyway to help our current situation but be negative bout TZM!
@patuhenry - Your assertion that no one has come up with a way to help our current situation is patently untrue. It doesn't meet with fact. Marxism is meant to cure the ills of Capitalism, and is meant as a solution, though I believe it to be the wrong solution.
My personal solution is Libertarian principle and government among individual governments, and global free trade.
Why so many people are negative about TZM is because the very core arguments are flawed, and the system unworkable.
My understanding was all people will have access to the main computer, and if you understand the goals of the zeitgeist, why would it be to put harm on another person, its for the well being of every human, and our resources,what do you really fear? is it the unknown? thinking this whole system will take! and leave you with nothing? or is it the material things you hold so tight today could be taken away from you?
great argument. i have never thought of zeitgeist from this angle, but i always did think it kind of resembled a NWO since the first film... which could be a reason why he might still be able to make these films. everyone under 1 power, most likely 1 language (english), 1 culture, 1 god (science?), etc...
a very rational and concise argument.. So would you suggest that a system similar to the one proposed by Zeitgeist but implemented on a regional scale with "nodes" connected in a parallel system like neurons.... i think what he is trying to say is that with a world without ego based decision making it would be easier to make rational decisions based on a common good, but sadly i agree with you, history has shown us, there is always a(some) megalomaniac(s), and it could all get Orwellian
a very rational and concise argument.. So would you suggest that a system similar to the one proposed by Zeitgeist but implemented on a regional scale with "nodes" connected in a parallel system like neurons.... i think what he is trying to say is that with a world without ego based decision making it would be easier to make rational decisions based on a common good, but sadly i agree with you, history has shown us, there is always a(some) megalomaniac(s), and it could all get Orwellian
The scientist program the computer with the best science which is truth out that we have at that time. Yet a computer can store and do what it told but can't solve a unknown problem. So a new problem would be left too the scientist in that field of study. The computer might help though scientists but it can't do the work which be tested till it a law of physics in one way or the other. Then it called scientific method mean lets say Hitler did the study. then when his finding are checked.
@starknight97 when Hitlers finding are checked and then proven false he lose his being best in that field. SO though who program this computer just do what the science says and hold nothing because their study be checked by anyone in that field that what too check them. So the idea they run everything is just wrong. Then with no power to grab what do they grab? Huh what mono crop? This to is wrong again sorry their will be still all type of different people in this system.I agree with hold outs.
@starknight97 Everyone agrees their be problems their is no utopia. So let say north Korea holds out against this new idea. After all they are well shielded from ideas of their rest of the world. They may even have a resource we need. The truth is we can move on without them even though it slows us down. A fact i believe on a personnel scale is that one large multi-resource nation can do this on their own.
the computer doesn't dictate land usage. the science does. what ever the study's show the land is best at is what it's used for. The reason he seem so solid is because our best science will show us how too live not peter. Perter don't even know many aspects of this living yet because the studies have not been done yet. Once again wrong the computer just does what it told. the science is what tells the computer what is best. False science leads to false solutions which a computer can't think.
Not to say their no to little power to get a Hitler might be the best at something but that all he could lead as leader in the Zeitgeist idea are field leaders.Like Einstein would lead physics and a few other related fields. he never lead math field, or medical field.
I don't recall him saying that his way is the only way. What Peter did was express his opinions and ideas. Is it perfect? No. I think even Peter would agree to that as well as admitting that there are people that would rather die then even give his ideas an honest try. Bottom line is Peter created something that is revolutionary and is opening up peoples eyes to the state of the world and the bleakness of our future if we continue on this way. Your video offers nothing.
If your gonna attack the Venus project come up with real problems like what do we do when a man catches his wife cheating and decides to chop there heads off or someone gets into a drunk fight and such things of that nature small indeed but the only real issues with the Venus project that can't be refuted. So good luck finding anything else I know I did
As intelligent as you try to come off you failed fairly quickly computers would simply collect the data which is evaluated by people who then use scientific method to see which is the best way if there's been tampering it'd become evident fairly quickly on your notion of if abundance does what Peter says how come rich family's are still greedy simple classism there born believing and shown they are superior by how much money they have lastly confined...
That was rude I thought outside the box since I was young, before zeitgeist was even put out, I studied American History and planned to go to school to become a teacher. I read books from Ward Churchill, Howard Zinn a couple of authors I enjoyed. I studied the wars, and the invasions on south america, I learned about how we waist resources for profit, I tried to think about ways things could get better, I always wanted human unity, a RBE makes sense to me, doesn't mean I would agree with it all.
How about going back to a gold standard and following the Constitution? Huh? It wasnt until the Fed and Central Banking came around that we started getting screwed the hardest.
RBE no Government what is up with you people, are all of you so conditioned to believe in our system that you can't think outside the box. Its crazy. Who cares if Hitler was a liberal what does that have to do with this movement? No leaders, no Government, just people working together. We understand if we transition to this now it probably would be hard to sustain it, cause people wouldn't know how to react or live in such a system. Build 1 city go from there.
Just because we do not agree with your particular thinking does not mean we do not think outside the box. You are following someone elses idea. You are not thinking outside the box. You are just thinking inside a different box. The difference in your box and mine is that my box is also packed with the lessons of history and noticing that an RBE is not much different from Communism and Feudalism. Its early adherents were rosy cheeked idealists as yourself who didnt see the big picture.
9 thums down on the video and 8 thumbs up on those comments. i suspect tzm drones have been visiting this video if not its just one guy with 8 sock puppets.
You said it all. I hope PJ Merola responds to your challenge.
Nothing happens to them. If you don't want to live in a RBE you don't have to, nobody is going to twist your arm, you can keep you're farm and property its all good, and you can believe in whichever one of the gods out there you want to believe in, make sure you choose the right one though or else you just wasted your life believing in the wrong one : ). Ok ok my best friend is a bible freak, and we go at it a lot but guess what we still respect each other a we're still best friends.
What your saying about an RBE being completely voluntary is untenable. First off you cannot control all the resources in the world if its "voluntary". All of those resources already belong to someone. Secondly if only 1 family has a farm they can exchange with people in your community for other goods. Bartering was the original money system. It will lead to the same thing all over again.
That of course threatens the entire system so violence and stealing property are necessary to an RBE.
It's important to bear in mind that regardless of the flaws in Peter Joseph's thinking, he still intellectually ass raped Sefan Molyneux. Criticize the zeitgeist movement all you want.. but please be honest enough to admit that Stefan Molyneux got his intellectual ass kicked in public.
Rest assured, the Financial oligarchs, or NWO, are going to use some kind of monetary unit to dispense power, wealth, and resources. Do you really think the monetary system is better? Maybe you like debt. Maybe you liike to work 40 plus hours a week just to keep your head above water. Maybe you didn't watch and or understand the whole movie.. A computer could do a better job of running society than Rockerfeller, Zeitgeist=resources, technology, equality. NWO=Financial dictatorship. Difference!
All true science is peer reviewed. How could a crazy Hitler type character get into 'power' and control peoples lives in a transparent, science driven society? What would this person have to gain by doing this? In a world of free and educated people, why would they allow this? Your arguments are very strange indeed and I have a feeling you simply do not understand how an RBE works. I recommend further reading and study before you produce any more videos for the world.
the bottom line people is Peter Joseph is talking about a utopian state on earth.this will never happen because utopian is just another word for heaven.this will never happen on this earth because that is not the nature of man.if you beleive people will just be good is irrational and as fairy talish as you claim the bible is.u people must be stupid to put that power in a humans hands.im not worried because there will be a NWO gods says there will but he will triumph over it andbring heaven2elect
@12jahwarrior I have friends who believe in god and the bible and all I have to say is what has the bible or god done for man through out history, you can believe what you want to believe but the only changes that ever happened was done by man/woman not a superior being. I will quote me on this give up all my materials to live in a RBE, I believe in it, I don't have to worry about Big Brother cause there isn't one. Why would anybody want to hurt somebody else in a RBE there's no gain.
@marko2028 beleive what you want but what happens to the people that dont want that?what happen to all those property owners who have factories farms etc and they dont want to give it up?say what you want my freind but you can beleive all u want doesnt mean its the best for man and man will never do that cause its bs.just tell me what happens to those who dont want 1worldreligion,or RBE?let me know what happens to them they tell me how nonviolent ur bs movment is.peace
I stopped watching after 1 minute...Peter Joseph is trying to gain support for an idea he believes in, imagine how long the movie would be if he tried to appease all you "hey that's not the only way we can live our lives!!!" nuts by directing a section for a couple other alternatives on top of his resource based economy. People barely want to watch the 2 hour movie as it is. I do agree though, the resource based economy still needs a lot of exploration, but it's def a good idea and I support it.
What I fail to see? : ) Its more like what I've been able to see. Believe me when I was first introduced to the VP I was just as skeptical as anybody else I took all the information in with a grain of salt I did my studies I listened to the radio show, all the questions I had were answered, and answered to my liking, I don't feel like I'm taking a chance in this movement giving up everything that really ain't mine in the first place, but I truly believe this system would be hugely beneficial.
@marko2028 youre willing to give up everything u ever worked for and that is truly YOURS.youll give it up in exchange for the promise that some one else is going to take care of you and nobodys going to work more than others or make less than others everyone will be the same and big brother will provide for us.what happens when big brother decides you dont get to eat this month.what happens then?answer me that.i work for mines,u get what u work for nothing is equal and never will be until YESHUA
"3:25 why is it that some the world's worst criminally insane men come from the world's richest families"
Because the monetary system itself is a lot more fragile than a system where basic premises for human physical contentment (note: not emotional happiness because that's a lot harder and subjective) are programmed into computers and left to run unimpeded by opinion. Invasion and colonization isn't necessary when immigration will do the trick just as well.
Yes the Zeitgeist identifies some possible solutions to the worlds problems but only to throw more lies with disinformation and deception. The Zeitgeist never mentioned the Illuminati, Occults, Lucis Trust and the One World Religiona nnd NWO. It just goes on about a bunch of rich bankers wanting to bring about their selfish plains. A resource based economy will never happen, its the Illuminati who have the power, we need to expose the truth before we could do any of those things.
/watch?v=4ARgrANrN08 this shows a clip after the monty python gag, shortly after which shows why he did this, it's a clip from George Carlin, talking about how Jacques Fresco's arguments are marginalized & how people like to beat each other down when a new idea that scares them comes along, enjoy your fear, i'm choosing love
this is a valid point regarding who controls the Computer.......Not so valid , in my opinion, is the comparison regarding the communist prop. part of the zeitgeist film trying to annex peter criticism on stephen molyneux with his own words in the zeitgeist film.
If you would investigate better maybe you would find a vide wheere peter joseph is giving a presentation and someone does jump out of the audience screaming communism,,,,,,,,Doesn't fly on my IQ range
WOW some of the comments people have put on here are off the wall, even the person who made the video has some respect for Peter Joseph but some of you are acting very in-mature. Imagine if Peter never made these videos half the people here probably wouldn't have ever had the thought a new society is possible, the video opens up great discussions, I just don't understand a guy who does this for FREE cause he chooses to, gets thrown to the wolves, disagree or agree its opened up my mind.
I think the resource based economy is a good idea but not for this time period. We should start simplifying the mechanics of economy then when we have technologies that can convert matter into other forms, slowly switch to the resource based economy over a number of years. Fiat money really is a belief system. Resources like precious metals or whatever is most needed in a geographical area could replace the fiat as currency followed by the resource based economy once technology catches up.
I disagree even if a hitler or crazed nut is born in a resource based economy there's no way he would ever get the power to do anything insane, if education is the key to a resource based economy who in there right mind would ever let a person like that get in power, you're arguments don't seem that well thought out.
@marko2028 You fail to see what most of TZM fail to see. You keep thinking in the "After", the real debate is the IMPLEMENTATION. And it is all flawed. Nobody within TZM has any valid, logical, tangible ways to implement the resource based system. It's also important to point out that most people. (YES MOST PEOPLE) who support TZM are not property owners, business owners. Who in a position I've listed is leading by example by giving up their hard earned fruits?
@weazz I wouldn't know if the 500,000 people who joined the movement are property owners or business owners at all. I do know I have my own business and I make good money, and I'm willing to give that up. The Implementation starts with building a test city in a country that's willing to give the system a try, it won't be forced upon its people and it won't take anybodies land, a lot of the people who advocate a RBE believe as do I once people get a taste of the first city it will grow naturally
@marko2028 The problem you have still failed to see, is that not all people who "Get a Taste" will like what they taste. Just because you are willing to give up everything you've ever worked for, doesn't mean others will, OR SHOULD. To believe in such a lie, is simply foolishness.
@marko2028 Yes, education IS the key. If we (the US) spent half of what we do on war, there would be a higher quality of life. Trillions and trillions we spend on war. Yet there has been no benefit. Yet, our education is going down the tubes. If you want to go to college, you are going into massive debt. People are not educated about politics, that's for sure. There should be no homeless, none without an education, none without food, water, and shelter. What about planned obsolescence?
@marko2028 Illuminati created Naziism, and communism, the plans of Naziism and Communism were carefully planned by Albert Pike, read "pawns in the game", it is documented there, they placed in Hitler because he was into the occult, and they were the ones that funded his war machine, germany was in total disaster and they provided the fuel, money and technology to him through Prescott Bush and other American bankers.
@marko2028 Illuminati created Naziism, and communism, the plans of Naziism and Communism were carefully planned by Albert Pike, read "pawns in the game", it is documented there, they placed in Hitler because he was into the occult, and they were the ones that funded his war machine, germany was in total disaster and they provided the fuel, money and technology to him through Prescott Bush and other American bankers.
Everyone says that. It wasnt a bunch of lunatics who elected Hitler to power. It wasnt a bunch of psychopaths that re-elected George Bush. It was people who were fed one sided information. Hitler was a very liberal young man who wanted to be an artist. If a central government with absolute control ever emerges on this planet absolute tyranny is inevitable.
Go to china where the government controls everything and see how well the multinatinals co do in those countries. No real Human rights.
@marko2028 "who in there right mind would ever let a person like that get in power"
So all of Germany wasn't in their right mind????? You might be in your right mind, but it's a big world out there with a lot of other people in it. On the other hand, you might not be in your right mind, you support RBE which in itself is insane.
I have not yet been presented an argument that can't be torn apart in a matter of minutes. Go ahead, try me, present one.
no matter what peter joseph thinks, there will always be a limited resource worth fighting over, HOT YOUNG BABES. what about that Z's, what about that?
@TheWhocares13 The Google Zeitgeist Europe conference has nothing to do with it's namesake. You're connecting dots which aren't connected, I'm afraid.
Excellent video. Peter points out alleged logical fallacies in Stefan's response yet uses a false dichotomy throughout his counter-response. Stefan does not defend the current state-capitalist system.
I support TZM .I know its flawed but Im willing to try something new.
elegyrulz 1 week ago
Interesting response, and you bring up some great points. But I think you overlook a few things:
1) Peter Joseph presents the Resource Based Economy as the only alternative because no one has presented another one. He doesn't present it as the only POSSIBLE alternative.
2) Although his use of sarcasm is hypocritical, I think it was a result of PJ segueing back from the RBE into the idea that being against the "free" market is somehow Marxist; I don't think he was obfuscating like Stepan was.
rkniffy 3 weeks ago
@MegaJay79 We are in a dictatorship. Your votes don't count for shit, want the puppet on the right? Or the puppet on the left?
A Resource Based Economy has nothing to do with the democratic process that either does or does not take place in the government. A real democracy would allow the entire population to vote on the agenda rather then a fraction of a fraction of the population to force their agenda. The Anonymous movement ideology embraces a lot of what this real democracy would look like.
jswilliams37 1 month ago
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Revolution is a way of changing the government. All of this Zeitgeist movement was created by the same people it is talking about. It is a way of initiating a revolution and creating this one world socialistic gov. Hitler made the statement: I have no use for knights; I need revolutionaries.
TheMajorMigraine 3 months ago
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Revolution is a way of changing the government. All of this Zeitgeist movement was created by the same people it is talking about. It is a way of initiating a revolution and creating this one world socialistic gov. Hitler made the statement: I have no use for knights; I need revolutionaries.
TheMajorMigraine 3 months ago in playlist Calling out Peter Joseph - The Zeitgeist movement Exposed
ANYONE WHO THINKS THEY HAVE AN OPINION WITHOUT ACTUALLY SEEING PJ'S FILMS IS A BIG FAT FAIL
TheEffinBongShow 3 months ago 2
nobody's gonna program the control systems in a bias way because the most economic way has no bias, dummy.
TheEffinBongShow 3 months ago
@TheEffinBongShow
"the most economic way has no bias, dummy."
xD
Irony much? Someone HAS to program the control system. Is it going to program ITSELF?
xD
Your logic is just as flawed as Peter Joseph's. Take another hit dude.
2bornot2b1984 1 month ago
@2bornot2b1984 if i said to you, the most economic way to travel from point A to B is in a straight line, is that my bias opinion? or is that actually cold, scientific reasoning? i dont understand why you take such a determined stance. are you happy with the way the world is?
TheEffinBongShow 1 month ago
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@TheEffinBongShow
"i dont understand why you take such a determined stance. are you happy with the way the world is? "
This is a false dichotomy, it suggests that either I agree with your position, OR I am happy with the way the world is.
Ironic, because the narrator of this video is pointing out that Peter Joseph does exactly the same thing.
Your straight line analogy doesn't apply to complex systems like life.
People will argue what is the best way to travel in a line.
2bornot2b1984 1 month ago
That zietgeist or w/e film is complete and utter ridiculousness.
HerbalJah 3 months ago
This is total fail. Here is why: The designer is irrelevant, the design itself is relevant. The design is meant to DIVIDE, through distributive justice, the earths natural resources to the population of it. I don't see how ANY ONE or GROUP is going to decide how the resources are going to be given out. You're worrying about something quite silly.
CntthnkO15 4 months ago
Thank you TheCozmikTruth for bringing out this concern. I agree with most of what PJ said in his movies, but this is where I part from him as well. However, with those concerns being met I think middle path that is decentralized, with some othe modifiers is viable.
pantheon777 4 months ago
I am not a follower of TZM / VP...but I observe and learn. This video also helped in my learning. Thank you. :)
DeepakKrishnanSparkz 4 months ago
A resource based economy sounds great and obvious to start with. Why didn't anyone think of this before?
The reason is it's flawed in a major way.
1) People would have no voice or power over their own lives. It would be the kind of society George Orwell warned about in his writings.
2) You would still need law, police. Not all laws & crimes are about money
MegaJay79 6 months ago
@MegaJay79 people would have more power over there lives because they wouldn't have to make money to live. its not like there would be a computer system that branded you at birth for a specific profession. its not orwellian...and the vast majority of laws and crimes ARE about money.
TheEffinBongShow 3 months ago
@TheEffinBongShow Our vote allows us to have an opinion on how society is run this is not the case with RBE, it's a dictatorship...
Why can't RBE be a democracy? Why can't the people have a say in how their lives are run?
A lot of crimes are stem from class and money but many are not
MegaJay79 3 months ago
@MegaJay79 take the time out of your busy day and actually watch the new zeitgeist.
TheEffinBongShow 3 months ago
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@MegaJay79 take the time out of your busy day and actually watch the new zeitgeist.
TheEffinBongShow 3 months ago
I used to think Zeitgeist was the best film anybody could see. But looking back on it recently, I've realised that all it does is attack the government, attack Christianity, and promote Multiculturalism. Oh wow, it tells us about 911. but who hasn't heard all the theories?
Not so much worth watching anymore, I say.
Bleakunending 6 months ago in playlist More videos from TheCozmikTruth
@TheCozmikTruth All shit controlled by supercomputer , who said that ?????
Why i dont see quote for this.
shogu666 6 months ago
yes it is true that a computer will control and managed resources but not one person will program it, no an entire planet will program the computer, and if your fear of elitist humans trying to take over this computer system is irrelevant cuz those people were raised to think that gaining and taking for yourself is the key to happiness and longevity. We are trying to change to environment to teach children that giving is the key to happiness not taking cuz it will come back to them in the end
miesrah12 6 months ago
@miesrah12 Ever heard of open source? It means anyone can change the code of a program. It also means that someone with bad intent can corrupt the program , but any change that isn't in the best interest of everybody will quickly be spotted and corrected. Open Source is the future.
z3r0Projects 3 months ago
@z3r0Projects thats that i mean
miesrah12 3 months ago
@z3r0Projects to support yourself is to support everyone else
miesrah12 3 months ago
@TheCozmikTruth You neglect to offer up another alternative. If you have one please feel free to share it because I haven't heard of anything better than the RBE.
MasAppealTheGreat 6 months ago
He has already said that he does not have the best and only system, but only another proposition .
ConvictedTerrorism 7 months ago
WRONG!
Chrisss178 7 months ago
I wanted to gather as much information of your opinions as I could, but the videos of your earlier challenges are Private. Can you please make them available? Thanks.
mtoro16 7 months ago
Isn't this entire video just an appeal to fear? And isn't that a logical fallacy?
anotherdrummer23 7 months ago
TZm won't say,"Nope, we have to fololow what was said previously." That's the beauty of it, we can, as a society, put ideas in and object to it, but support our objections with facts. We need a model city to test the idea out. Did you miss this info?
AnimusSolis 7 months ago
Your point is fair, but once you take into effect that people aren't "naturally selfish" and it's only the environment causing people to become selfish in order to adapt and survive to the society, then you'll see that it's is possible. But still needs to be tested. There are problems and hurdles, but the more the public learns of it, the more minds there are. If you decide usuing old cities instead of building new one's is better, bing it up with evidence.
AnimusSolis 7 months ago
Also as others have said before in their comments, the computers are controlled by us. Why would there be hackers? Everyone (most) has no use for the power, in fact, it would just affect their lifestyle becasue they would be tampering with what keeps not only the city but themselves alive. That's mentality of today, but hopefully, later on most will see that once all their needs are met, they should better themselves in w/e they want.
AnimusSolis 7 months ago
When did he say there aren't more than two choices? Actually, I remember hearing Peter mention that you can choose whichever you want. However, he also mentions he finds it hard to believe that you can continure this system if say, we have RBE implemented in. Peter mentions that there could be subgroups of people doing i.e capitalism in separate areas like there are today (i.e Amish). Peter and TZM actually advocate for the fact that you can choose. You were misinformed and just assuming.
AnimusSolis 7 months ago
Let the computers run the world and let us, hackers, decide who's worthy of the world resources. I am all for it!
Axxess7777 8 months ago
@Axxess7777 its not a computer designed for giving out resources, its only gonna track them and point out problems, it is us as a species to simple take these resources and make stuff with them. Just gonna be a big ass calculator and nothing more
miesrah12 6 months ago
I love that this is how you spend your time lol
Buybuffalo2 8 months ago
Our current system is such a mess, so sick and destructive to people and our planet, and it's collapsing right now on many levels: financial, environmental, social. Do we want scientists, inventors, technicians, etc. leading the way into the future... or should we stick with the politicians, lawyers, military men, banking and corporate interests who've brought us to this brink of collapse??
dvmovie 8 months ago
You're missing the point of this computer-system, and the fact that no one's opinion will affect how resources are oriented – the system will be programmed to utilize resources in an optimized fashion, meaning that your opinion has no influence, nature dictates how fast a resource is replenished, not you or someone else, and this is what the system will be based on.
I'm a programmer, and programmers often let the system decide whether or not resources are available or not (ie. idle-cleanup).
CasperBHansen 8 months ago
ITS A MOVEMENT... Not a destination. It will alter and evolve as necessary as time goes on... You fucked up by attacking Peter Joseph, and not the movement itself... Good Day
Soulfree2008 8 months ago
You have many points that i have also, even though i support the movement. you are being realistic and i'm glad you bring out these points because i hope there is a solution. I really hope you get a reply from Peter Joseph
beomideiran00 9 months ago
@3:23 "a state of abundance will eliminate...." then you go to show rockefeller.
false premises, PJ talks about a state of abundance for all people. clearly rockefeller is wealthy, but there the poor still exist. you really took this point another route bruh.
brdatwork 9 months ago
i think TVP is a great idea, not a perfect system but still great and much better than we have atm and i would love to see it in action... However it is nice to see someone with fairly constructive critisim and clear questioning of the system rather than just some ignorant arrogant idiot screaming "this wont work, its shit" I hope PJ does answer you. I'll be intrigued as to what he has to say. For that i will be hitting the like button on this vid.
messyflexa 9 months ago
and we take and even further step back we can see that you failed to read all the information about the project and you ask question that most have been answered in the movement or the radio bits, and like some people already said here... its still a WORK IN PROGRESS
SpankyTJ 9 months ago
the ideas peter promotes are a solution to get out of the selfdestructive cycle we are currently in.
from what i understand, hes rather negative towards the question; is mankind ready and mature enough for such a considerably huge adjustment.
in other words, he dont think it can be done. he dont think people are listening. atleast not before a major failure/collapse occure in our present structure of society.
i dont want to put words in his mouth, but this is my impression of his thouhts.
plaff990 10 months ago
Unfortunately there is not enough space here to effectively comment on this video but I suggest you watch "Peter Joseph's Response to Stefan Molyneux [Zeitgeist: Moving Forward]" a few more times before bringing up questions already answered and familiarize yourself more with the Zeitgeist Movement and Venus Project before condemning it.
scrivs1988 10 months ago
This is hilarious. The author simply repeats all of Sefan's errors. All of them. They are too numerous to describe. The worst one was the example of the rich people. He states that because the rich have access to abundance, that they should benefit everyone. The author is equivocating on the definition of rich. If you actually understood the concepts of TZM you know that wealth is not abundance, but merely extreme waste. That is why those people are so despicable. Awful rebuttal.
justinmjulian 10 months ago
I was gonna make a video like this...
But you have done a better job than I ever could...
SlashDotDash121 10 months ago
this person has no idea what they are talking about have u even seen the films??
speshear 11 months ago
I just can't fathom that ownership is somehow a really important part of our culture that cannot be removed or we lose our humanity... It's massively inefficient even when you take business and cost efficiency out as you may have considering your stance on our current system
would you rather own a plastic, low quality, short life span camera several times or would you rather have access to a camera that is the highest quality, the most durable and user friendly camera we could possibly build
HoobtheNoob 11 months ago
this is a very strange counter argument... however there are some reasonable points. however - it does still seem like you are just criticizing for the sake of it. Firstly the answer to your question about people that don't want to be part of the system - then let them but they simply won't get the help of the greatest scientific minds on our planet, because those are the people that will be programming computers etc. also you fail to realize that there is little distribution of power
HoobtheNoob 11 months ago
@HoobtheNoob In other words it is likely that there are to be many people who have the skills to operate and access information - information would be free as would anything else - so it would be very easy for people to find out about corrupt behavior and get the word out. not only that the people that get to high positions of clout or 'power' will be there only as a result of public opinion - are not guaranteed to stay there and as such have to moderate their behavior
HoobtheNoob 11 months ago
@HoobtheNoob A lot of your points seem to have grown out of a fundamental misunderstanding, or simple observations and assumptions that neglect the overall point, I mean the people who come from rich families do what they do BECAUSE we have a stratified society and they need to keep doing it to keep it that way - I mean no government behavior is really motivated by anything other than profit may it be personal or national. the idea is not to hope people will change but to remove negative stimuli
HoobtheNoob 11 months ago
You'll never get an answer from "Peter Joseph" about what will be done to people who don't want to give up rationality. Communism is all about deception, not reason. They dangle the carrot in front of you. What they decide to do with you if they ever get the power will not come from any consideration of your rights as an individual. Such people do not even consider ethics. Only the ends matter. If you obstruct their utopian "just" ends, you become the enemy of "progress."
MillionthUsername 11 months ago
@MillionthUsername again, you misunderstand the concept - I suggest you watch more media from the movement and the venus project there is lots available - If you still call it communism after that you have failed to really listen to the information - there is no money - there are no dictators. It is not an existing system so don't make arguments against communism as if it's relevant
HoobtheNoob 11 months ago
@HoobtheNoob Don't be naive. As the poster says in this video, it's not what they say but what they don't say. They are presenting you with a totalitarian system. I have watched some of their videos. I think they are completely ignorant, not only of economics but of how society works. You will not hear them talk about an ethical system or individual rights because they are not promoting liberty. People are a means to an end for them. It's collectivism flat out, in your face.
MillionthUsername 11 months ago
@MillionthUsername incredible how you claim they know nothing about economics and society. this is entirely irrelevant.
1. economics in the venus project is simply the management of resources rather than money
2. this is not totalitarian, there is no power to inherit.
also the way you automatically dismiss such a broad phrase as 'collectivism' automatically like a closed minded patriot... the term is irrelevant. it's technocratic - the people that know the most relevant info make the choices
HoobtheNoob 11 months ago
@HoobtheNoob Show me something of theirs where they talk about ethics and rights.
Can't you see that it's all fluff and deception?
MillionthUsername 11 months ago
@MillionthUsername in what ways is it lies and deception, I don't think you get it, this isn't a political party it's a concept of sustainable equality...
jacque f talks about his concept in the context of humanistic morality - the basic morality that exists in all of us - you do unto others what you would have done to yourself
he could make some really decent money and spend his life enjoying the benefits but he travels the world and lectures on how to create sustainable peace and development.
HoobtheNoob 11 months ago
@MillionthUsername I mean the whole idea of all the science explained in moving forward - about human development is to get to the truth about human nature and determine that we can create an altruistic culture via abundance. almost all crime is motivated by money..
they didn't come to this conclusion in order to impose their idea - the idea is based on the basic understanding that environment shapes behavior. if this were not the case - the project would be based on other understandings
HoobtheNoob 11 months ago
@HoobtheNoob The abundance we do have has been created by the free market, not by collectivist daydreaming. Labor and money exist precisely because of the nature of the world. No one is against technology; it's just that these people are simply using technology as a way to entice you into collectivism.
Technology comes from people being free to create, to trade, to make their own decisions, not from techno-bureaucrats "managing resources." That is called communism, nice videos notwithstanding.
MillionthUsername 11 months ago
@MillionthUsername WRONG. the free market does not create abundance - technology does the free market system has allowed for distribution of inferior goods and the most wasteful inefficient society to date - coupled with the most systematic intrinsic death there has ever been.
the free market is a distribution system - it creates nothing. labour and money exist not because of the nature of the world but because of the nature of the world a century ago. times change.
HoobtheNoob 11 months ago
@HoobtheNoob "the free market does not create abundance - technology does"
Where do you think technology comes from - the command of bureaucrats? You see, you are completely ignorant of even basic economics. What you are saying here is just absurd. If you don't advocate a free market, then what the HELL are you advocating? And how are you going to deal with people who do not want to give up their liberty and property to you? Does that question even cross your mind?
MillionthUsername 11 months ago
@MillionthUsername you have a typical case of so engrossed in our current system that you can't imagine what a system without money would be like... economics is IRRELEVANT
it's voluntary basis - but I'm pretty sure some 'third world' countries we oppress would jump at the idea...
the thing is those people can live as they choose but due to the way the system would work - the venus projects society would advance much quicker than any other - they would be left behind with their money
HoobtheNoob 11 months ago
@HoobtheNoob "economics is IRRELEVANT"
UNBELIEVABLE! So you don't need to economize resources? Then why the hell are they calling it "sustainable" if economics is irrelevant? You can't be serious.
"it's voluntary basis"
So they're going to convince people to voluntarily give them their money and property so that they can "manage resources," even though "economics is irrelevant"?
Why don't they talk about rights and ethics then? Is it because LIBERTY is antithetical to this "vision"?
MillionthUsername 11 months ago
@MillionthUsername I meant monetary economics - other than this I don't see what your issue is
the reason they don't talk about morality is because they don't want to get dragged into a moral argument with religious criticisms etc.etc. the point is that liberty and ethical behavior is a given - they don't talk about it a lot and the reason is because WHY ELSE WOULD THEY BE DOING IT. it's a system designed to free people from work, I mean come on... the current system enslaves people into it
HoobtheNoob 11 months ago
@HoobtheNoob How the hell is "monetary economics" IRRELEVANT? Money is an invention which solves the problem in barter of not having exactly what another wants when they trade with you. It's a commodity which is the most widely accepted in trade so that it acts as a medium of exchange for everyone. It allows us to trade, and also to have liquid savings.
The reason they don't talk about ethics, liberty, property, rights, etc;, is because that would give them away. They are social planners.
MillionthUsername 11 months ago
@MillionthUsername Look. you obviously don't understand the idea and haven't watched enough media about it if you don't even understand the basic concept of getting rid of money. In this system money is not used because it is the root cause of almost all social ills.
if you can't imagine a world without money that's fucking sad for you, but that's the only way to significantly improve our social system
and they also do talk about these things, you were obviously too ignorant to listen, watchmore
HoobtheNoob 11 months ago
@HoobtheNoob Money is NOT the "root cause of almost all social ills." The cause of social ills is injustice which is mostly perpetrated by the state. Money is a commodity that people trade for other commodities. In a free society, people own their own resources and produce goods and services to trade with one another. This leads to a productive, prosperous, and peaceful society.
We all have a right to the fruit of our labor (money) and the right to choose how we trade with others.
MillionthUsername 11 months ago
@MillionthUsername I mean if you actually want to understand the best and most forward thinking social design - then do watch zeitgeist moving forward - if you have and you still talk about the system like you do then I'm sorry but you have simply not listened to a lot of the info because all of your concerns are addressed
HoobtheNoob 11 months ago
@HoobtheNoob Oh, it's a "social design"? You mean it's centrally planned? By who?
I watched a lot of videos and the more I watch the worse it gets. This stuff is utter crap. It's lies and deception about the free market, economics, society, everything. A world without money is a world where you are at the mercy of the technocrats that these people want to be in charge of all of your needs and wants. It is a slave society because money, i.e., property, is "eliminated." It's insane.
MillionthUsername 11 months ago
@MillionthUsername
youtube.com/watch?v=vIvkrXmLXrc
here you go - a little bit from the film - if this isn't about morality then what is
HoobtheNoob 11 months ago
@HoobtheNoob That link doesn't work for me.
I've seen the films. They are filled with absurdities. For example, they say that technological development is in direct competition with human labor, and therefore machines are going to throw us out of work. Then in the next breath, they talk about their utopia being totally automated! They're trying to pretend like economies don't expand. It's simply FALSE. They are saying progress is bad - unless it's their silly utopia of course. Garbage.
MillionthUsername 11 months ago
@MillionthUsername the current 'democratic process' is simply a dictatorship in disguise. and a shit disguise too. If you'd have actually watched material from fresco then you would know the idea is that the system of government is regulated by everyone - because everyone is the government people would be educated in such a generalist manner that they could make informed decisions - right now most people that vote are completely ignorant of the system of society they live in.
HoobtheNoob 11 months ago
@HoobtheNoob "the current 'democratic process' is simply a dictatorship"
No kidding. But neither that nor the fact that the central banking fiat money system is a fraud has anything to do with what these people are proposing. I am against "democracy" and coerced fiat money and central banking. Plus I am in favor of technology and progress. I know few who aren't. But ZM seems to set up a false dichotomy between how things are now and its imagined collectivist utopia. That is disingenuous.
MillionthUsername 11 months ago
@MillionthUsername I've gotta be honest dude you sound like a complete retard right now... technological development is in competition with JOBS - if there are no jobs because of automation then we don't need to work - if there is no money we don't need jobs. It's a simple concept to be honest.
they do not pretend economies don't expand - they say that the way our economy is based on oil it's very bad for it to expand because it uses resources unsustainabley
HoobtheNoob 11 months ago
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@HoobtheNoob "you sound like a complete retard"
Because you can't understand economics. It's like trying to explain language to a monkey.
MillionthUsername 11 months ago
@MillionthUsername freedom to YOU is people owning their own stuff etc. because you have a narrow minded concept of freedom.
is it free to be enslaved into a job because you need money to survive? or is it more free to have all the necessities of life freely available to you so that you can work on your own life intelligence and creativity
if there was no money then why would people commit crime? because they don't need it to buy things - it's worthless, and those things are free anyway so why?
HoobtheNoob 11 months ago
@HoobtheNoob You're right, no one will commit crime. Money is slavery. Work is slavery. Robots will provide for all your needs. You will never have to work.
Now get lost.
MillionthUsername 11 months ago
@MillionthUsername and there it is, when your argument falls down you resort to mockery due to your lack of vision. classic.
HoobtheNoob 11 months ago
Ahhhh, the resort to Godwin's Law, gotta love pointing out fallacies in people's arguments B-) (And that by the way, was an appeal to ridicule, thought you might wanna know).
KimmehCharmeleon 11 months ago
First off... Naming particular groups that are competing for advantage over other groups is not cooperation. It's like saying that all the teams in the nfl cooperate. They are simply trying to beat eachother out. The purpose of all the groups you have mentioned "ad agencies, banking services, investors, and creditors" are all in exsistence to make money. Not to help one another, And as for the point of Hitler. He was allowed to take power because ppl let him. It's people that matter.
cdogknight666 1 year ago
The question is "Why would somebody program a computer to harm others?" It's a good question. In our current system it's very easy to see why people would want to gain material advantage over others. It's a system where competition instead of cooperation is valued. People of the future will understand that if we cooperate we thrive. If we compete we fail. The examples of this in nature are numerous and convincing.
cdogknight666 1 year ago
@cdogknight666 "It's a system where competition instead of cooperation is valued. "
Really? Anywhere I've worked, we've co-operated with suppliers, rental agents, and delivery services. Then there's ad agencies, banking services, investors, and creditors. Not to mention each other. That's a whole lot of cooperation. Surprising for something that's "not valued".
jeffiek 1 year ago
@jeffiek that is called a "group" while a group may work together it is still competing against other groups, unless of course anywhere you've worked has never had another company competing against it?
Widetotem 11 months ago
can you explain how our current monetary system is not a monoculture? Also provide an argument of how a resourced based a economy could collapse? It is also stated clearly in the film you sourced that everyone doesn't have to live in a resourced based economy, it comes down to choice. It is a bit of a reach to state that people will never be exposed to the VP values. You really have not stated any faults with the technical design stated in moving forward.
whiterabit09 1 year ago
@whiterabit09 "can you explain how our current monetary system is not a monoculture?
merriam-webster(dot)com/dictionary/culture
businessdictionary(dot)com/definition/monetary-system(dot)html
Duh.
RBE => maximum efficiency => no humans
"technical design stated" - irrelevant, people are not machines. The atomic bomb is not technically flawed. I sure as hell wouldn't go around using them.
jeffiek 11 months ago
there is more than 2 choices, do you offer a better total system? Bringing up that Peter Jopeh uses sarcasim in his film is the only logical flaw you can find to support your argument? The3 central computer will be a calculator, a tool nothing more, what motive can you provide in a society where peoples needs are met they will seek power, in its own right? with the open sourced nature of the software, how can this be done? the rich of this current system are groomed by culture to pursue power,
whiterabit09 1 year ago
Much Love!
TakeTheGreenPill 1 year ago
Plus I like the way this Documentary has come across, its not forcing you to do anything its just there to make you think, Alot of haters for the Zeitgeist movement think we should be out there doing things NOW to make them believe hahaha, it even makes me laugh when you call it a religious group, I dont believe in religion but I know what you are saying when you call TZM that,it really has to start with just one person in doing what they can do for the survival of our peopel and planet!
patuhenry 1 year ago
You will be able to look at the computer online and see what its doing so you can be well informed of the decisions its making,remember everyone has a say not just a few selected people, makes me think you havent really understood the documentary?
patuhenry 1 year ago
I would rather be in the RBE living well each day being able to have a home, being able to study when I want and do what I want when I dont feel like studying, I do get a feeling it will be hard to change as alot of todays fun and pleasures could be taken away, but like I have said in my previous comments, why were these put here, human kind could of achieved soo many great things if we focused on the well being of a person and our planet
patuhenry 1 year ago
@patuhenry - The problem is you assume that the RBE is going to be idyllic. You don't stop to think that the price system creates a more equitable distribution of resources than this supercomputer that has no logic. In addition, whomever designs and programs this said supercomputer will have ultimate control of your existence. Putting this level of power in the hands of 1 person or 1 group is sheer idiocy. In addition, is distribution of resources interrupted when this computer crashes?
Slipknotyk06 1 year ago
@patuhenry - So, should the computer crash, there will be widespread panic and likely starvation. I'm sorry, I cannot bring myself to the side of Zeitgeist that cedes 100% control of 100% of resources to 1 entity, which is whoever designs this computer. What if they're corrupt and aim only to fulfill their needs? What then?
Also, egalitarianism is a revolt against nature. If you want to make nature laugh, tell her your plans. What happens in case of natural disasters like plague and famine?
Slipknotyk06 1 year ago
@Slipknotyk06 well Im not saying the computer wont crash but I believe we can minimise this from happening, this is something that will have to be discussed, I hope you know that TZM thinking is always a step ahead of what todays thinking using entails, you see money doesnt have anything to do with technology so more resources can be put onto the computer/computers, we live in a world that deters us away from our actual survival as a species, rather watch Jersey shore then watch about libya,
patuhenry 1 year ago
@patuhenry - I reject your assertion that TZM is somehow ahead of the Free Market. In the cases of computer crashes, natural disasters, etc, flow of resources isn't interrupted for very long.
So, you're trying to state that we are somehow worse off now because we seek time for leisure?
Money is a medium of exchange that allows profits/losses to be calculated so the most efficient use of resources can be calculated through the price system. TZM has nothing nearly as efficient.
Slipknotyk06 1 year ago
@Slipknotyk06 - In the Free Market, this flow of resources isn't interrupted for long. However, because of the global infrastructure of Zeitgeist, these interruptions can last months or even years. The power isn't de-centralized, but is HIGHLY centralized.
Anyone that's ever been in the military knows how easy it is to destroy a central target, and induce mass confusion, hysteria, fear, and then take advantage of the resulting panic.
Slipknotyk06 1 year ago
@Slipknotyk06 I dont know what you mean, price system? you mean to tell me my country which has been hit with a bad earthquake leaving 150 dead and 10billion dollars in debt and growing! is a great profit /loss system? you should not be able to put a price tag on humanity! this is ridiculous and cruel, like Ive told alot of people please come up with a better system and I will have a look at it, other then that your money system cripples it doesnt cure!
patuhenry 1 year ago
@patuhenry - I'm going to take your straw man because even though it is a fallacy, it's the only point worth while here.
No, I'm not assigning a price tag to life. If it wasn't for the Capitalist infrastructure and exchange of ideas and technologies, the death toll would be FAR worse. What most Zeitgeist supporters don't understand is inherent in their ideology, the development of technology stalls as there is no one assigned to continue this development. What if it was 1920s technology in NZ?
Slipknotyk06 1 year ago
@Slipknotyk06 you seem to think with limited thought, the system hasnt even been brought in and youre making assumptions? the goal is for the well being of humans, equality!!! to live in harmony with our natural resources, and to use technology and science to help us achieve this. stop looking at this as your own negative way you view the world! if you dont believe in this then thats fine but really NO ONE has come up with anyway to help our current situation but be negative bout TZM!
patuhenry 1 year ago
@patuhenry - Your assertion that no one has come up with a way to help our current situation is patently untrue. It doesn't meet with fact. Marxism is meant to cure the ills of Capitalism, and is meant as a solution, though I believe it to be the wrong solution.
My personal solution is Libertarian principle and government among individual governments, and global free trade.
Why so many people are negative about TZM is because the very core arguments are flawed, and the system unworkable.
Slipknotyk06 1 year ago
My understanding was all people will have access to the main computer, and if you understand the goals of the zeitgeist, why would it be to put harm on another person, its for the well being of every human, and our resources,what do you really fear? is it the unknown? thinking this whole system will take! and leave you with nothing? or is it the material things you hold so tight today could be taken away from you?
patuhenry 1 year ago
great argument. i have never thought of zeitgeist from this angle, but i always did think it kind of resembled a NWO since the first film... which could be a reason why he might still be able to make these films. everyone under 1 power, most likely 1 language (english), 1 culture, 1 god (science?), etc...
IssoPro 1 year ago
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a very rational and concise argument.. So would you suggest that a system similar to the one proposed by Zeitgeist but implemented on a regional scale with "nodes" connected in a parallel system like neurons.... i think what he is trying to say is that with a world without ego based decision making it would be easier to make rational decisions based on a common good, but sadly i agree with you, history has shown us, there is always a(some) megalomaniac(s), and it could all get Orwellian
dopetom 1 year ago
a very rational and concise argument.. So would you suggest that a system similar to the one proposed by Zeitgeist but implemented on a regional scale with "nodes" connected in a parallel system like neurons.... i think what he is trying to say is that with a world without ego based decision making it would be easier to make rational decisions based on a common good, but sadly i agree with you, history has shown us, there is always a(some) megalomaniac(s), and it could all get Orwellian
dopetom 1 year ago
The scientist program the computer with the best science which is truth out that we have at that time. Yet a computer can store and do what it told but can't solve a unknown problem. So a new problem would be left too the scientist in that field of study. The computer might help though scientists but it can't do the work which be tested till it a law of physics in one way or the other. Then it called scientific method mean lets say Hitler did the study. then when his finding are checked.
starknight97 1 year ago
@starknight97 when Hitlers finding are checked and then proven false he lose his being best in that field. SO though who program this computer just do what the science says and hold nothing because their study be checked by anyone in that field that what too check them. So the idea they run everything is just wrong. Then with no power to grab what do they grab? Huh what mono crop? This to is wrong again sorry their will be still all type of different people in this system.I agree with hold outs.
starknight97 1 year ago
@starknight97 Everyone agrees their be problems their is no utopia. So let say north Korea holds out against this new idea. After all they are well shielded from ideas of their rest of the world. They may even have a resource we need. The truth is we can move on without them even though it slows us down. A fact i believe on a personnel scale is that one large multi-resource nation can do this on their own.
starknight97 1 year ago
the computer doesn't dictate land usage. the science does. what ever the study's show the land is best at is what it's used for. The reason he seem so solid is because our best science will show us how too live not peter. Perter don't even know many aspects of this living yet because the studies have not been done yet. Once again wrong the computer just does what it told. the science is what tells the computer what is best. False science leads to false solutions which a computer can't think.
starknight97 1 year ago
Not to say their no to little power to get a Hitler might be the best at something but that all he could lead as leader in the Zeitgeist idea are field leaders.Like Einstein would lead physics and a few other related fields. he never lead math field, or medical field.
starknight97 1 year ago
This is one of my favorite channels.
SimianAxiom 1 year ago
"utterly naive" pretty much sums up the Venus Project.
mouser98k 1 year ago
I don't recall him saying that his way is the only way. What Peter did was express his opinions and ideas. Is it perfect? No. I think even Peter would agree to that as well as admitting that there are people that would rather die then even give his ideas an honest try. Bottom line is Peter created something that is revolutionary and is opening up peoples eyes to the state of the world and the bleakness of our future if we continue on this way. Your video offers nothing.
TheHappyChildhood 1 year ago
If your gonna attack the Venus project come up with real problems like what do we do when a man catches his wife cheating and decides to chop there heads off or someone gets into a drunk fight and such things of that nature small indeed but the only real issues with the Venus project that can't be refuted. So good luck finding anything else I know I did
711Daniels 1 year ago
As intelligent as you try to come off you failed fairly quickly computers would simply collect the data which is evaluated by people who then use scientific method to see which is the best way if there's been tampering it'd become evident fairly quickly on your notion of if abundance does what Peter says how come rich family's are still greedy simple classism there born believing and shown they are superior by how much money they have lastly confined...
711Daniels 1 year ago
That was rude I thought outside the box since I was young, before zeitgeist was even put out, I studied American History and planned to go to school to become a teacher. I read books from Ward Churchill, Howard Zinn a couple of authors I enjoyed. I studied the wars, and the invasions on south america, I learned about how we waist resources for profit, I tried to think about ways things could get better, I always wanted human unity, a RBE makes sense to me, doesn't mean I would agree with it all.
marko2028 1 year ago
ZM= pretty face on extreme oppression.
How about going back to a gold standard and following the Constitution? Huh? It wasnt until the Fed and Central Banking came around that we started getting screwed the hardest.
Shockofsanta 1 year ago
RBE no Government what is up with you people, are all of you so conditioned to believe in our system that you can't think outside the box. Its crazy. Who cares if Hitler was a liberal what does that have to do with this movement? No leaders, no Government, just people working together. We understand if we transition to this now it probably would be hard to sustain it, cause people wouldn't know how to react or live in such a system. Build 1 city go from there.
marko2028 1 year ago
@markO
Just because we do not agree with your particular thinking does not mean we do not think outside the box. You are following someone elses idea. You are not thinking outside the box. You are just thinking inside a different box. The difference in your box and mine is that my box is also packed with the lessons of history and noticing that an RBE is not much different from Communism and Feudalism. Its early adherents were rosy cheeked idealists as yourself who didnt see the big picture.
Symbolc0729 1 year ago
@Symbolc0729 Absolutely dead on excellent post
mikeoli 1 year ago
9 thums down on the video and 8 thumbs up on those comments. i suspect tzm drones have been visiting this video if not its just one guy with 8 sock puppets.
You said it all. I hope PJ Merola responds to your challenge.
8Thirst 1 year ago
Nothing happens to them. If you don't want to live in a RBE you don't have to, nobody is going to twist your arm, you can keep you're farm and property its all good, and you can believe in whichever one of the gods out there you want to believe in, make sure you choose the right one though or else you just wasted your life believing in the wrong one : ). Ok ok my best friend is a bible freak, and we go at it a lot but guess what we still respect each other a we're still best friends.
marko2028 1 year ago
@marko
What your saying about an RBE being completely voluntary is untenable. First off you cannot control all the resources in the world if its "voluntary". All of those resources already belong to someone. Secondly if only 1 family has a farm they can exchange with people in your community for other goods. Bartering was the original money system. It will lead to the same thing all over again.
That of course threatens the entire system so violence and stealing property are necessary to an RBE.
Symbolc0729 1 year ago
It's important to bear in mind that regardless of the flaws in Peter Joseph's thinking, he still intellectually ass raped Sefan Molyneux. Criticize the zeitgeist movement all you want.. but please be honest enough to admit that Stefan Molyneux got his intellectual ass kicked in public.
paleopeneyes 1 year ago
Rest assured, the Financial oligarchs, or NWO, are going to use some kind of monetary unit to dispense power, wealth, and resources. Do you really think the monetary system is better? Maybe you like debt. Maybe you liike to work 40 plus hours a week just to keep your head above water. Maybe you didn't watch and or understand the whole movie.. A computer could do a better job of running society than Rockerfeller, Zeitgeist=resources, technology, equality. NWO=Financial dictatorship. Difference!
SUBtRONiX213 1 year ago
All true science is peer reviewed. How could a crazy Hitler type character get into 'power' and control peoples lives in a transparent, science driven society? What would this person have to gain by doing this? In a world of free and educated people, why would they allow this? Your arguments are very strange indeed and I have a feeling you simply do not understand how an RBE works. I recommend further reading and study before you produce any more videos for the world.
poshlighter 1 year ago 2
It's difficult to listen to the full video when the first 40 sec contains a false statement.
str8shootr7 1 year ago
its stll the best alternative
antonio794 1 year ago
the bottom line people is Peter Joseph is talking about a utopian state on earth.this will never happen because utopian is just another word for heaven.this will never happen on this earth because that is not the nature of man.if you beleive people will just be good is irrational and as fairy talish as you claim the bible is.u people must be stupid to put that power in a humans hands.im not worried because there will be a NWO gods says there will but he will triumph over it andbring heaven2elect
12jahwarrior 1 year ago
@12jahwarrior I have friends who believe in god and the bible and all I have to say is what has the bible or god done for man through out history, you can believe what you want to believe but the only changes that ever happened was done by man/woman not a superior being. I will quote me on this give up all my materials to live in a RBE, I believe in it, I don't have to worry about Big Brother cause there isn't one. Why would anybody want to hurt somebody else in a RBE there's no gain.
marko2028 1 year ago
@marko2028 beleive what you want but what happens to the people that dont want that?what happen to all those property owners who have factories farms etc and they dont want to give it up?say what you want my freind but you can beleive all u want doesnt mean its the best for man and man will never do that cause its bs.just tell me what happens to those who dont want 1worldreligion,or RBE?let me know what happens to them they tell me how nonviolent ur bs movment is.peace
12jahwarrior 1 year ago 2
I stopped watching after 1 minute...Peter Joseph is trying to gain support for an idea he believes in, imagine how long the movie would be if he tried to appease all you "hey that's not the only way we can live our lives!!!" nuts by directing a section for a couple other alternatives on top of his resource based economy. People barely want to watch the 2 hour movie as it is. I do agree though, the resource based economy still needs a lot of exploration, but it's def a good idea and I support it.
bizzy001 1 year ago
What I fail to see? : ) Its more like what I've been able to see. Believe me when I was first introduced to the VP I was just as skeptical as anybody else I took all the information in with a grain of salt I did my studies I listened to the radio show, all the questions I had were answered, and answered to my liking, I don't feel like I'm taking a chance in this movement giving up everything that really ain't mine in the first place, but I truly believe this system would be hugely beneficial.
marko2028 1 year ago
@marko2028 youre willing to give up everything u ever worked for and that is truly YOURS.youll give it up in exchange for the promise that some one else is going to take care of you and nobodys going to work more than others or make less than others everyone will be the same and big brother will provide for us.what happens when big brother decides you dont get to eat this month.what happens then?answer me that.i work for mines,u get what u work for nothing is equal and never will be until YESHUA
12jahwarrior 1 year ago
Rock on Peter Joseph! I'm with you man!
wakeupnow1 1 year ago
"3:25 why is it that some the world's worst criminally insane men come from the world's richest families"
Because the monetary system itself is a lot more fragile than a system where basic premises for human physical contentment (note: not emotional happiness because that's a lot harder and subjective) are programmed into computers and left to run unimpeded by opinion. Invasion and colonization isn't necessary when immigration will do the trick just as well.
technatezin 1 year ago
A well thought out and articulate video. Subscribed.
twilightawakening 1 year ago
Yes the Zeitgeist identifies some possible solutions to the worlds problems but only to throw more lies with disinformation and deception. The Zeitgeist never mentioned the Illuminati, Occults, Lucis Trust and the One World Religiona nnd NWO. It just goes on about a bunch of rich bankers wanting to bring about their selfish plains. A resource based economy will never happen, its the Illuminati who have the power, we need to expose the truth before we could do any of those things.
JasionJones 1 year ago
/watch?v=4ARgrANrN08 this shows a clip after the monty python gag, shortly after which shows why he did this, it's a clip from George Carlin, talking about how Jacques Fresco's arguments are marginalized & how people like to beat each other down when a new idea that scares them comes along, enjoy your fear, i'm choosing love
Karmathejedi1701 1 year ago
this is a valid point regarding who controls the Computer.......Not so valid , in my opinion, is the comparison regarding the communist prop. part of the zeitgeist film trying to annex peter criticism on stephen molyneux with his own words in the zeitgeist film.
If you would investigate better maybe you would find a vide wheere peter joseph is giving a presentation and someone does jump out of the audience screaming communism,,,,,,,,Doesn't fly on my IQ range
manelmariarodrigues 1 year ago
WOW some of the comments people have put on here are off the wall, even the person who made the video has some respect for Peter Joseph but some of you are acting very in-mature. Imagine if Peter never made these videos half the people here probably wouldn't have ever had the thought a new society is possible, the video opens up great discussions, I just don't understand a guy who does this for FREE cause he chooses to, gets thrown to the wolves, disagree or agree its opened up my mind.
marko2028 1 year ago
I think the resource based economy is a good idea but not for this time period. We should start simplifying the mechanics of economy then when we have technologies that can convert matter into other forms, slowly switch to the resource based economy over a number of years. Fiat money really is a belief system. Resources like precious metals or whatever is most needed in a geographical area could replace the fiat as currency followed by the resource based economy once technology catches up.
slowlyawakening 1 year ago
I disagree even if a hitler or crazed nut is born in a resource based economy there's no way he would ever get the power to do anything insane, if education is the key to a resource based economy who in there right mind would ever let a person like that get in power, you're arguments don't seem that well thought out.
marko2028 1 year ago 19
@marko2028 You fail to see what most of TZM fail to see. You keep thinking in the "After", the real debate is the IMPLEMENTATION. And it is all flawed. Nobody within TZM has any valid, logical, tangible ways to implement the resource based system. It's also important to point out that most people. (YES MOST PEOPLE) who support TZM are not property owners, business owners. Who in a position I've listed is leading by example by giving up their hard earned fruits?
weazz 1 year ago
@weazz I wouldn't know if the 500,000 people who joined the movement are property owners or business owners at all. I do know I have my own business and I make good money, and I'm willing to give that up. The Implementation starts with building a test city in a country that's willing to give the system a try, it won't be forced upon its people and it won't take anybodies land, a lot of the people who advocate a RBE believe as do I once people get a taste of the first city it will grow naturally
marko2028 1 year ago
@marko2028 The problem you have still failed to see, is that not all people who "Get a Taste" will like what they taste. Just because you are willing to give up everything you've ever worked for, doesn't mean others will, OR SHOULD. To believe in such a lie, is simply foolishness.
weazz 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@marko2028 "t
here's no way he would ever get the power to do anything insane," "if education is the key to a resource based economy"
you answered it your self
if he was highly educated he wouldnt need any one to"let him " get in to power he would find his own way
"where there is a will there is a way"
marxs and engels sounded great to. it was lenin and stalin that then miss used there power.
lookingforthemeaning 1 year ago
@marko2028 Yes, education IS the key. If we (the US) spent half of what we do on war, there would be a higher quality of life. Trillions and trillions we spend on war. Yet there has been no benefit. Yet, our education is going down the tubes. If you want to go to college, you are going into massive debt. People are not educated about politics, that's for sure. There should be no homeless, none without an education, none without food, water, and shelter. What about planned obsolescence?
SUBtRONiX213 1 year ago
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@marko2028 Illuminati created Naziism, and communism, the plans of Naziism and Communism were carefully planned by Albert Pike, read "pawns in the game", it is documented there, they placed in Hitler because he was into the occult, and they were the ones that funded his war machine, germany was in total disaster and they provided the fuel, money and technology to him through Prescott Bush and other American bankers.
JasionJones 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@marko2028 Illuminati created Naziism, and communism, the plans of Naziism and Communism were carefully planned by Albert Pike, read "pawns in the game", it is documented there, they placed in Hitler because he was into the occult, and they were the ones that funded his war machine, germany was in total disaster and they provided the fuel, money and technology to him through Prescott Bush and other American bankers.
JasionJones 1 year ago
@mark
Everyone says that. It wasnt a bunch of lunatics who elected Hitler to power. It wasnt a bunch of psychopaths that re-elected George Bush. It was people who were fed one sided information. Hitler was a very liberal young man who wanted to be an artist. If a central government with absolute control ever emerges on this planet absolute tyranny is inevitable.
Go to china where the government controls everything and see how well the multinatinals co do in those countries. No real Human rights.
8Thirst 1 year ago
@marko2028 "who in there right mind would ever let a person like that get in power"
So all of Germany wasn't in their right mind????? You might be in your right mind, but it's a big world out there with a lot of other people in it. On the other hand, you might not be in your right mind, you support RBE which in itself is insane.
I have not yet been presented an argument that can't be torn apart in a matter of minutes. Go ahead, try me, present one.
jeffiek 1 year ago
Exactly. Great video.
LoneStar1776 1 year ago
no matter what peter joseph thinks, there will always be a limited resource worth fighting over, HOT YOUNG BABES. what about that Z's, what about that?
jsmith2142 1 year ago
search youtube for - David Rothschild and zeitgeist 2007.
TheWhocares13 1 year ago
@TheWhocares13 The Google Zeitgeist Europe conference has nothing to do with it's namesake. You're connecting dots which aren't connected, I'm afraid.
Do some more research.
misterflaff 1 year ago
Excellent video. Peter points out alleged logical fallacies in Stefan's response yet uses a false dichotomy throughout his counter-response. Stefan does not defend the current state-capitalist system.
kanz0bgz 1 year ago 2
the other name is theosophy
skillakidd 1 year ago
that doesnt mean i give it my or my childrens future though
skillakidd 1 year ago