Kurt Vonnegut at the 50th Anniversary of Hiroshima

[WimGrundy]

Grave of the Fireflies @ 2:20

[GunningForYou75]

The Japanese killed Millions of innocent civilians in China, most noted was Nanking (Nanjing). So don't talk about innocent civilians.600,000? That's kitty shit numbers.

[renegade420455]

@GunningForYou75 Don't you fucking get it? War is MURDER. Atrocities were committed on both sides in WWII, it's not a matter of who killed more, it's a matter of why those people had to die at all.

[makeroomfordavy]

quietest video on youtube.

[LeLimeLine]

Loveliest man who has ever lived.

[captainkundalini999]

Those great men from our heroic forefathers made some momentous decisions. They will never be held to account and we as a species will never fully understand the harm our progenitors inflicted upon each other. We are a miraculous, though flawed species. We betray our true purpose daily in our interactions with our fellow creatures and the planet we all depend on. It seems the majotity of us do not deserve either.. .Will we ever learn?

[AgouraMo]

The quickest way to minimize deaths and causalities is to bring the war to an end as quick as possible. The way to prolong the agony and maximize deaths and suffering to be politically correct with all the perceived sensitivities.

[dave4248]

I knew one word that proved that at least one "soldier" would have loved to see 1 million Americans, and maybe 2 million japanese die in an invastion of Japan, that word .....Vonnegut

[JesusConvictScorpion]

really. somehow, i don't think he would have "loved" it. and i don't think you have listened to him at all.

to live happily is good, to die miserably is bad.

simple-minded? fine. so is everything said by Jesus.

[CantStoptheCycle]

Hmmm, it's interesting, the amount of granfalloonry going on in here.

U.S.A., Japan, Britain, Italy, France, Germany, whatever. We are all human beings, as were those that died on both "sides" of this and every other war in human history.

We should mourn them all. They were but babies when they were cut down by our collective stupidity, and for that we should mourn.

They are still cut down today, and for that we should mourn.

Humanity is our karass, Countries our granfalloons.

[littlenero]

"I had to respect the opinion of my friend William Styron that the Hiroshima bomb saved his life. Styron was then a US marine when that bomb was dropped.

I had to add, though, that I knew a single word that proved our democratic government was capable of committing obscene, gleefully rabid and racist, yahooistic murder of unarmed men, women, and children, murders wholly devoid of military common sense. I said the word. It was a foreign word. That word was Nagasaki" .--Kurt Vonnegut

[AgouraMo]

I have read Slaughterhouse Five. Kurt is an excellent writer. He is not an authority on defending the country or conducting war. Surviving a "fire bombing" does not change that scenario. If I want to read a good book..I will read Vonnegut and others but I would have not replaced Eisenhower with Vonnegut unless you are a big fan of German folk music.

[ueberwachung]

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."

--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

[AgouraMo]

Who determines "falsely"?

[ueberwachung]

Slavery is being in bondage. Who says that an individual is aware that he or she is bound and forced into performing tasks or is intentionally not allowed access to important information that would allow critical thinking. Geothe isn't giving a values lesson, he is merely pointing out that one's ignorance or denial of their enslavement is (in his opinion) the worst condition in the spectrum slavery.

[ueberwachung]

When one believes that their shackles are part of being free (certainly, they may choose the shackles, but it isn't freedom if they are forced to wear them).

[AgouraMo]

Ignorance is of no value to any person's livelihood but no one cannot be informed on all things that is why we have governments. We trust our governments to a reasonable point until we learn differently and exercise recourse if we can. It really does not matter what type of government we have (capitalistic, socialistic..etc.) The only real questions of any importance is How many people are trying to get into your country? and how many are trying to get out?

[Jcolinsol]

@AgouraMo

Historians and political scientists agree that war is a realistic, rational, utilitarian activity. Rationality is simply assumed by Realists. Even when they admit that “aggression seldom succeeds...this is only because “misperceptions are common.” Misperceptions are viewed as having no cause. They are unmotivated. Irrational, self-destructive motives are unthinkable. That would be “doing psychology”—a forbidden activity.

-Lloyd deMaus

[AgouraMo]

@Jcolinsol: Well, Lloyd DeMaus and others would have been the first to be sent via cattle cars to concentration camps. While waiting to be tortured... they could say to each other....Well, I can't believe we lost...we certainly played by the rules and tried to be civil...LOL! When someone is trying to break your door down with the sole purpose of killing you & those of your family ...calling your psychologist is not a healthy option. War is about survival not psychology. Survival first & always.

[quicksiliva]

@AgouraMo Jesus says love your enemies

[AgouraMo]

@quicksiliva: Yea, well you love them more when they are not trying to kill you.

[drewskione]

@quicksiliva no he didn't

[quicksiliva]

@drewskione You have heard that it was said, "Love your neighbor and hate your enemy."

But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you (Matthew 5:43-44).

[drewskione]

@quicksiliva That is a commie quote comrade quicksilva

[quicksiliva]

@drewskione It's from the bible, dumb shit.

[drewskione]

@quicksiliva What Bible.  I am sorry, I do not speaks English. I google translate.

[Nautilus1972]

@ueberwachung And that's the USA in a nutshell. George W. Bush's Executive ORders sneaked in under the auspices of 9/11 defence policies reads like the Nazi manifesto and has eroded every last right of American citizens - leaving them only with the archaic and outdated 'right to bear arms.'

[dave4248]

We get it Kurt. You like it when America is attacked...Pearl Harbor. But you hate it when America strikes back...Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Is there anything NEW in this video?

[tristramshandy3]

fool.

[modelleg]

It's very possible Vonnegut is Mark Twain reincarnate.

[gamerzone360]

august 6th 1945 - august 6th 1995.

[AgouraMo]

I collect his books and happen to be a huge fan of his writings. I do not speak for anybody but my self. Door to door fighting in Tokyo and other cities would have cost us incredible HUGE losses. Marines were getting slaughtered all over the Pacific islands. Think of the "Saving Private Ryan" beach scene times seven. Even after the first bomb was dropped Hirohito still refused to surrender. Eishenhower knew a little about war too and to discount his experience is a mistake.

[AgouraMo]

How about a little sensitivity for our troops. What happens to the lives of their families when they are killed? It is easy to play an impartial hand when it is not your house on fire. Spectators do not determine the outcome of an event although they have no shortage of opinions.

[mrhipsterdoofus]

Have you read his books? If you have, do you not see the troops and their families are foremost in his work. He was a troop. Do you think you speak for the soldiers WWII experience more than a man who served then?

[Glassis50full]

Did you miss the part where Kurt lived through the fire bombing of Dresden? Did you even read any of his books of at least his biography? He served his nation and nearly paid the ultimate price for his service. Of all people, he has one of the most unique and perhaps closest first hand knowledge of what it is like to be involved in something like a nuclear blast. Read up on the fire bombing of Dresden and find out what Kurt went through. And read Slaughterhouse V. Great book.

[tristramshandy3]

I have read all his books. slaughterhouse-five was my least fave. I wish they taught breakfast of champions in schools instead :)

[AgouraMo]

It is silly and dangerous to think that our enemies will not kill us with anything available to them. A "sense of fair play" is only applicable to those who share the same values. Ghandi told Jewish groups to use civil disobedience with the Nazis. Even great people can get it wrong.

[samifan18]

still u dont bomb a whole city.leavin kids deformed.makin the pregnent women give birth to kids who are destroyed by this bomb

[RosieGrl26]

i don't care about who bombed who. i don't care if war is hell. killing is killing. dead is dead. the world is a shitty enough place without waving around bombs the way we'd wave a flag.

like vonnegut said: Scientific truth was going to make us so happy and comfortable. What actually happened when I was twenty-one was that we dropped scientific truth on Hiroshima.

[FilmZ0mbie]

Not to participate in the endless cycle that is the bomb debate, but I think now that we know what the after effects were of the cold war, North Korea and other rogue nations obtaining nuclear weaponry... I think we might have been a little more hesitant if we really knew what dropping that thing was going to do to the world.

World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones. Think about it.

[814925]

As the true father of the atom bomb has recounted when he oppose using the bomb in War World II, they said they had to use to demonstrate its power to the Soviet Union.

[aricandisgood]

I'm sick of hearing people justify killing innocents with the phrase "war is hell". Despite what people want to say, when Pearl Harbor was bombed there was widespread celebration in Japan. Partly because of political indoctrination, and partly because they've always been imperialists. I will never ever ever support the wanton destruction of a city for the sake of peace. If you want a first hand account of what ensued after the bombing of Hiroshima read Kenzaburo Oe's "Hiroshima Notes"

[AgouraMo]

The numbers range as high as 600,000 and you can go to military hist.sites, you can google it. There are all sorts of pros and cons. The death toll for Americans in the pacific was absolutely brutal. You can dispute that if want. If you think fighting door to door in Tokyo and elsewhere would of brought a lower body count of Americans and Japaneses using conventional methods..well thats your choice. I wasn't there but the powers that were decided (all things considered) it was the best method.

[HugosLeung]

600,000 dead CIVILIANS vs 600,000 dead SOLDIERS. That is the difference. men at war, ready go give up their lives differ from the innocents of a city.

[AgouraMo]

Japanese deaths were around 140,000. The 600,000 deaths are at the lower end. It would probably been well over a million plus. Google Japanese deaths from atomic bombs. Bombing cities in the second war was initiated by the Axis powers...the nazi blitzgrieg of London. War is hell and the only responsible thing to do is to bring to an end as soon as possible. That is what saves the most lives, not civil "politically correct" methods of prolonging & pursuing a larger body count.

[ShinRyu33]

Hum, why don't we nuke Iraq then?

[ShinRyu33]

Could not have said it better.

[xLordOfTheFliesx]

@HugosLeung

Very very true. People apparently don't care about the difference anymore. It's terrifying.

[xXLogicalArgumentsXx]

@HugosLeung It doesn't matter.  The public was convinced they were the enemy, not Civilians vs Soldiers. Us vs Them. And it was, was it not?

[AgouraMo]

What nonsense! Nagasaki was without question the right call. 100,000 enemy dead is much better than 250,000+ Americans dead . It's too naive and somewhat convenient to simply say: We should pursue peace at all costs...when someone is actively trying to kill you at all costs. Vonnegut survived the war because he was an American prisoner of war. If he espoused his views as a German citizen he would had been thrown in a concentration camp as many others were with similar views.

[DenshaDaine]

Yeah, if you consider the loss of civilian lives to be equally acceptable as the deaths of soldiers who have volunteered to fight knowing that their lives will be at risk. Regardless of their nationality many of the Japanese casualties were not soldiers, nor necessarily supporters of the dictatorial Japanese government. Civilian casualties vs. military casualties = not the same thing. Sure it was practical but ethically it's reprehensible.

[AgouraMo]

To talk about japanese sensitivities toward civilians is laughable. Ask the chinese what they think. It is also laughable to argue that if you lose a war, that the civilian population on your side is somehow out of harms way. Is it acceptable to you: to find yourself in the enemies concentration camp awaiting torture & thinking...I can't believe we lost..but you know what: We certainly played by the rules didn't we! What a proud boast that would be!

[oldjoe5]

You first justify the horrible acts of dropping atomic bombs on people cuz the Japanese military did horrible things. That is ridiculous. You then go on to assume that the US would have lost the war if it did not use those bombs. That us beyond absurd.

[AgouraMo]

You didn't read my comment carefully. If you think 250,000 plus american dead is better than 100,000 japanese dead shows that you care more about human life...well what can anyone tell you. If you want to worship Vonnegut like some god...thats your business. You apparently do not care about "human life" only on the method it is taken. Thats a very poor argument.

[oldjoe5]

You're just making up numbers to justify a horrific act. You pull the 250,000 US dead out of thin air like it was some kind of hard fact. You need to support your argument with actual facts.

[tristramshandy3]

how about american troops sensitivity towards locals in vietnam? Do us all a favor and read the book "Bloods". Also, there were hundreds of mai lai massacres- but only one made the news.

Do you really believe we are more moral than anybody else?

[dalcon555]

you are a fool, not only were they civilians in a non war-industralized city but also was that bombing completely unprovoked but it was useless, the war was ended because after nagasaki truman called japan saying "end the war or we will do it again" and they didn't hiroshima occured, by this same logic all they would've had to do is bomb once, period

[tristramshandy3]

the fact that you place more value on one life than on another-because of this made up thing called nationalism- means you have not understood mr vonnegut or humanism. I hope you do someday!

[flyagaric23]

Watch this three times!

A Fitting tribute to the bravest of hearts...

Kurt Vonnegut.

Thanks

[bjglidden]

Does anyone know where I can find the transcript of this speech?

[osbornaz]

Thanks for posting.

[jamesmorgandavies]

Pure demonstration-bombing. Japan was already tactically defeated - USG & JIG had already confirmed peace-talks, only conditionality remained to be resolved for that theatre to cease combat actions. But USG wanted a Big Stick for an "inevitable" war against the USSR.

Films of victims from Hiroshima promptly became Victory-porn for the delighted masses in Times Square & other theatre districts.

[jamesmorgandavies]

Today just such Iraq gore-porn is again VERY popular.

Everything old is grue again.

[NGS712]

james: 'Victory-porn' Sounds like something Vonnegut himself could've coined.

[jamesmorgandavies]

Thank Jeebus, I'm too old to blush.

Someone here is bemoaning the "blame America first" 'tude on campuses - as opposed to the "gosh, don't blame us just because we DID it" stance, always a perennial fave.

Bad head-chemicals galore, eh?

[NGS712]

james: It's an increasing epidemic, prevalent among older persons of the Congressional nature.

[dansmith44]

Apparently Mr. Vonnegut forgot that we warned the Japanese before we bombed Hiroshima and that afterward, they still did not surrender. We bombed Nagasaki because they refused to surrender. And rightfully so.

[rumpole33]

the govt was in confusion. they didnt have the full knowledge of what happened in hiroshima.  those 3 days in between didnt give the govt enough communication ability. japan was on its last leg especially domestically. communication abilities via wires and roads were bombed. they were brought back to 3rd world disfunction.

[CherryStadt]

You conveniently leave out the Japanese army mentality at the time - they were hard to imprison because they had a "no surrender" mentality. I disagree with the revision in history because we helped rebuild the country. I don't think we were "delighted" to do it as much as any one going to war.

[CherryStadt]

I also have a problem with the "blame america first" mentality in many colleges and universities - I'm in it. While an overused term, it is true as much as the neo-conservative movement has spurned "america can do no wrong," which has screwed our liberal (aka nation building) foreign policy.

[NGS712]

Cherry: When you say 'liberal . . . foreign policy' I assume you mean 'liberal' as in loosely rather than the actual ideaology right?

[CherryStadt]

Liberal foreign policy as in multilateral nation building that occurred in Europe and Japan after WII, and the aid that many former communist states got and still get from organization like the EU. This is completely different from realism.

[NGS712]

Cherry: So you're basically saying that we should keep out of other countries?

[CherryStadt]

No, what I mean is that our unilateral policies have hurt us - but no one in the western world wanted to mess with Iraq, they would have rather handled it like North Korea - let the thing die slowly.

[NGS712]

Cherry: So how is interfering w/ other countries helping the US?

[CherryStadt]

We'll we have "interfered" with countries that others agreed were bad. The issue I have is that you can do it right, as in Bosnia/Serbia (which still kinda sucked - but the gov works). But when things such as Iraq happen, you get large isolationist movements as a reaction to it.

[NGS712]

Cherry: I'm not saying that when we do interfere/invade a country that it isn't bad, but that it isn't our business. How did Bosnia/Serbia affect us? Bush even criticized Clinton THEN for not having an exit strategy. We shouldn't be indifferent to all international issues, but we shouldn't have to involve ourselves in the issues of nations all around the globe.

[slothafur]

we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that GOVERNMENT of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth. -Wars of "freedom" using conscription are illegitimate. Perverse poetry, nothing more.

[MaxZT]

gettysburg

we cannot dedicate, we cannot consecrate, we cannot hallow this ground. the brave men living and dead who struggled here, have consecrated it far beyond our will power to add or detract.