You fascists ideas are not important on reality. IS-2 is better than Tiger I, also Tiger I is only good against T-34-76s in Battle of Kursk. Also Soviet tanks won the Battle of Kursk.
WTF are you talking about the Tiger1 was a promenant tank throughout WW2 42-44.Only good against T-34's? It was great at killing them it was a 10:1 kill ratio in the Tiger 1 favor.The German tanks always out ranged the allies.The IS2 had decent armour however the 122mm was an artillary piece and it wasn't all that great the German panthers 75L70was better and the King Tigers 88L71was alot better.Check history before you post talk to any ally tanker who survived theyll tell you.
@The2001cobra The JS-2's thick armor was TO COMPENSATE their POOR QUALITY, by reducing the size & ESSENTIAL ACTIVITY SPACES for crew, resulted in GENERAL DEGRADE OF PERFORMANCES. The Sovets mounted biggest guns in tanks HOPING TO COMPENSATE their normal size tank gun's INCOMPETENCY OF POOR GUN CONSTRUCTIONS & SUBSTANDARD AMMOS, they STILL NOT MATCH the SUPERIOR German PERFORMANCE STANDARDS, NOT TO MENTION their INFERIOR FCS & OBSCURED BUBBLED OPTICS WITH IMPURITIES, FAILED TO GAIN THE FIRST SHOT
@The2001cobra The fans of-T34/85 & JS-2 always failed to observe the anti-ergonomic interiors caused difficulties of observing, aiming & loading the dreamed "bigger" gun, the fixed seats of gun crew, cramped turret ring & ammo below floor matt, & ejection-pot at opposite side to the loader, hindered the smooth float of loader & gunner. No fans discovered the gunner's drop-gum periscope & the raised ventilating dome blocked the commander's vision from cupola. The NOTABLE SHOT-TRAP NEVER REMEDIED
@Avatar9n EAT SHIT U SCUM! the Mighty Tiger's Pzgr40 s FOREVER BETTER IN PENETRATION than the WW2 Sov. BEST AVAILABLE AP ammo 122mm BR-471B from 500m to 2000m. Check the Penetration Tables of "battlefield.ru" BEFORE U SCUM HABITUAL POINTLESS FARTINGS!!! The Germans BUTCHERED MORE THAN 800000 your foolhardy blundering boorish simple brains, with loses of 863303 (MORE THAN 7 times to German's 170000) lives of vodka drunkards & 6064 (MORE THAN 5 times to German's ONLY 720) of tanks! CHECK "Wiki" U!
@Avatar9n Even the WW2 Soviets BENEFITED themselves FROM the West Allies' HUGE LEND LEASED SUPPLIES OF MORE THAN 22800 tanks (MORE THAN the German highest yearly production of 9161panzers in 1944) & 501660 various MORE ADVANCED vehicles than the Soviet 343624 retarded cars...!.18700 planes...11000 railcars, 8700 trackers, 8216 AA guns, 5800 AT guns...350000 production machines, 32000000 tons dynamites TO RECOVER EXTRA HIGH LOSES CAUSED BY SUPERIOR Germans, They STILL LOST MORE THAN 950000 tanks!
@Avatar9n Your SHALLOW ILLOGICAL POINTLESS ARGUMENTS REVEALED there were still many fans FAILED TO USE THEIR OBSERVATIONS & LOGICAL MINDS, ONLY EASILY TO BE FOOLED BY ONE-TRACK SHALLOW MINDED OWN WISHFUL DREAMED IMPRESSIONS, no wonder tens of thousands of foolhardy blundering red nosed vodka drunkards as U boorish simple brained stuff were repeatedly killed shortly in battlefields by superior German cross fires. They HAD NO SENSES OF & FAILED TO ADOPT ANY TACTICS!
@9394JP731 Fuck you brainwashed idiot! Are you racing and cussing with anyone for a tank! Fuck your idiot foolish fascist brain and fuck your vodka! I never drink votka before and if you accussing the Soviets for their vodka, the capitalists drink much more booze than their votka. I accede, Tiger I's high velocity 8.8 cm KwK 36 L/56 weapon can penetrate IS-2 tank about 1000-1100 metres.
@9394JP731 But IS-2's D25-t 122 mm is not poor, it can penetrate 155 armour when fired from 500 m, so it can penetrate the Tiger I's armour. 88 mm kwk 36 better than 122 mm, because d-25t was a artillary gun which uses bigger warhead. Also, Tiger I's armour was only thick, not sloped. And tiger I's armour is 120 mm, IS-2's 160 mm. 8.8 cm can penetrate its 160 mm armour, but IS-2 has more advantage on medium and light tanks and anti-tank rockets.
@9394JP731 Tiger II (King Tiger) was superior than IS-2, with its thicker and sloped armour like Panzerkampfwagen V Panther. Tiger I's engine was powerfull (514.8 kW). But Tiger I's complicated hydraulic mechanism was its hotspot. Many Tiger I crew seen in combat area while they was leaving it alone. When it is coerced, its engine may stop or burn. Perhaps Tiger I is better than IS-2 with its 88 mm high velocity gun, but against developed IS-3 and its 220 mm sloped armour, its not.
@Avatar9n Your IS-3's whatsoever 200 mm armor WAS NOT on the 'pike' sloped front, but ONLY AN ARMOR BELT AROUND the bottom of casted turret. From your words, U REVEALED FAILED TO UNDERSTAND: 1). The sloped front was ONLY 90-120 mm thk. 2). The said 200 mm WAS NOT UNIFORM thickness at any points normal to the surface tangent, ONLY A MAXIMUM THICKNESS MEASURED FROM ASSUMED HORIZONTAL PATH of hostile shot TRAJECTORY, the cramped interior LIMITED ELEV/ DEPRESSION of the gun, FAILED TO HULL DOWN!
@Avatar9n Almost ALL your wishful Soviet "National Prided innovative Revolutionary Victory (?) Tanks" were WW2 Sov. SIGNATURED ANTI-ERGONOMIC STUFFS. the Sov. tank designers reduced their decent size & interior spaces for thicker armor, ONLY RESULTED IN DEGRADE OF GENERAL EXPECTED PERFORMANCES! Also even they mounted their biggest tank gun available HOPING TO COMPENSATE their POOR GUN CONSTRUCTION & SUBSTANDARD AMMO, still UNMATCHED the SUPERIOR KwKs from FCS, penetration, accuracy, lower ROF...
@9394JP731 You know? In last days, I've lost my interests on old battle tanks. I'm interesting about third-generation battle tanks. And if I can find a 2A46M 125 mm smoothbore gun, I will blow your fuckin' whorehouse!!!
@9394JP731 If you debate with someone later, don't try to curse first with your BRAINWASHED RASCIST ANTI-HUMAN MORON MIND and don't open the fuckin' CAPS LOCK or don't hold still the shift while you was writing belittling words to anyone. And if you wanna condescend anyone, look your shitty farting dumb ass and fuckin' cock sucking mouth. My first comment was just on good faith. But you are a savage NAZI!
@Avatar9n I cap lock my comments IS TO POINT OUT WHAT U "SCUM & MORON" WAS WRONG & TO INSTRUCT HOW U CORRECT your FAULTS! so that U MORON WILL NOT BE SPITED IN THE FACE!.....From your first comment U REVEALED YOUR ARROGANT & UNSCRUPOUS BEHAVIOR INHERITED FROM THE UNCIVILIZED NATION........If U have not a mirror TO WATCH CAREFULLY YOUR UGLY MORON FACE, U can look into th reflection from the patch of pee fleshly pissed by the russian bitch on the ground!
@9394JP731 You fuckin' moron! You are really idiot! You are answering a comment 1 week later! I won't say anything, because I understand that you are an ignorant and I think russians fucked you up... Because russians does not like dickheads and transvestites which have a twat in a male body, like you.
@Avatar9n Your " cock sucking mouth",it is our tradition TO COOK the 'stuffs' of various animals TO ENHANCE our sexual power TO FUCK. I BET if U MORON-SCUM dare to DONATE YOUR UGLY DEFORMED FOREVER HUMBLE TINY CHICK, I DARE TO COCK & EAT in front of U....U want me just boil your tiny humble stuff in hot-pot? cooked w/ curry sauce? cutlet w/ fried? deeply roasted? Cantonese streamed? I preferred minced your 'stuff' & spiced meat-mixing to German sauages w/ black peppers!....so as TO FUCK U mum
@Avatar9n Your UGLY DEFORMED HUMBLE 'STUFF' took me lots of time TO PICK UP & CAST AWAY all the unwanted with my sharp knife, I have to CUT your 'stuff' into halves & peel off the crusted peat skin, your 'stuff' to be rubbed with salt & lemon juice for an hour before I MINCED it!....Your bitchy busty crudely fuckable woman ADMIRED MY ENERGETIC PERFORMANCES TO HER, she closed her eyes, screamed then murmered, & OPENED HER MOUTH SO WIDE, EAGERED TO SUCK me all DOWN INTO THE DEPTH OF HER THROAT...
@9394JP731 FUCK YOUR MOTHER, FUCK YOUR SISTER, FUCK YOUR FATHER, FUCK YOUR ALL FAMILY! I THINK MINE'S BIGGER THAN YOU, BECAUSE YOU ARE A FUCKING GAY AND YOU ARE FUCKIN WITH YOUR FATHER. YOU KNOW, LAST NIGHT I FUCKED YOUR MUM! SHE WAS VERY VERY HOT! WHEN I DISBURDENING YOUR MUM'S SWEET TWAT, SHE WAS SAYING "OH, ITS VERY DELICIOUS". YOU MAKE ME CRAZY, YOU CAN'T ESCAPE ME YOU SON OF ABITCHHH! ıF YOU COME IN TURKEY, I WILL KILL YOU!
@Avatar9n From your RAGED, FREAK & CHILDISH SAVAGE BEHAVIORS, REVEALED U "SCUM-MORON" is NOT ONLY a VERY SHALLOW SWINE, HAVE NO COMMON SENSES, INDIVIDUAL KEEN OBSERVATIONS, LACKING OF LOGICAL MINDS, BUT ALSO FREQUENT LOSE OF SELF-CONTROLS, DRUNK FART IN YOUR OWN WISHFUL MASTURBATED DAY DREAMS...NO WONDER hundreds of thousands vodka drunks AS U BOORISH SIMPLE BRAIN STUFF were BUTCHERED by the outnumbered but sophisticate tactic-minded Germans in battles even with limited salvaged improved weapons
@9394JP731 YOU ARE LAPSING YOU FUCKING FARTING ASS! A SIMPLE BRAIN? YOUR IGNORANCE IS, PLUMMETING YOU! ---- I CAN USE MY BOTH HANDS YOU BIOLOGY IGNORANT! YOU ARE AN INFANTILE MASTURBATION ADDICT. I say again, I never drink vodka before. YOU ARE SAYING ME A MORON, BUT MY IQ IS 160. I'VE ENTERED FOR AN EXAMINATION THIS SUMMER IN EGE UNIVERSITY, AND I'VE GOT 160 POINTS FROM THIS TEST. YOU CAN SEE THAT UNIVERSITY WITH YOUR INTERNET.
@Avatar9n U PROVED your MORON-SCUM-SELF TOO INFERIOR & INDECENT to present, NOT TO MENTION ANY your spamed "National Prided Innovative Revolution Victory Tanks" or WW Soviet Mights, REVEALED WERE TOTALLY MASTURBATES ONLY TO FOOL ALL THOSE BOORISH SIMPLE BRAINS AS YOU IDIOT STUFFS!...............WHY NOT?.............Just watch your UGLY MORON FACE from the reflection of the patch of liquid on floor fleshly pissed by the bitch!!...........I LOOKED DOWN ON U IDIOT!!...:-D :-/ :-( :-O :-\ :-P :-()
@Avatar9n Who CARES the bullshit farting POWERLESS RESPONSES of a CONDEMNED LOSER AS U STUFF!.........U are TOO INFERIOR & CHILDISH!........:-D. I have no time to play with U IDIOT & DOOMED LOSER........No more meeting again!
@9394JP731 Are you saying me that? Actually, you are right. I've lost many deserving minutes by talking to you. A man says: "Watch your steps when you have to contact with a stupid person. Because, the people may don't understand that between an idiot and a genius."
@Avatar9n it is "I DARE TO COOK & EAT your tiny humble 'stuff' INFRONT OF U & ALL your women........before I FUCK them ALL".........Want to watch my ENERGETIC PERFORMANCES?
@9394JP731 You striked the wrong man, you son of a bitch! I'll find you and your mum! First I will fuck both of you, second, I will KILL all of your family! I'm gonna kill you son of a bitch! You couldn't think I have a gun! If you come in Turkey, send a message, and I kill you! I will fuck your mothers pussy and mount, and I will fuck your all family from their ass! You hit the wrong man, you son of a bitch! Affirm your adress, please. Someday, I'm gonna find you!
@Avatar9n Your " Someday, I'm gonna find U", From your IRRATIONAL BEHAVIORS, U will bear my unfriendly comments in your chicken-heart, thus FREQUENTLY & EASILY TO SUFFER VARIOUS SERIOUS SICKS, that NOT ONLY CONSUMPT YOUR LIMITED LIVING ENERGY, BUT ALSO WILL SURE SHORTEN YOUR POWERLESS LIFE, YOU MORON IS DOOMED NOT LIVING FOR LONG, & WILL DIE VERY SOON IN RECENT before U POINTLESS find me elsewhere, I am behind U, just turn around your head!.Your IQ 160 IS MEANINGLESS as U still live a moron way
@9394JP731 I don't interest with the ignorants, foul mouthed idiots, like you. If not, I'm gonna be an idiot like you. So, you are dangerous for me. You won. Please, do not contact with me again.
@Avatar9n was there any communists taught U Kid of 5 age any BAD ideas TO LABEL those fans of WW2 German panzers as Nazi or fascist? Kids at your age SHOULD NOT STAND ON THE SIDE of the traditional enemy of Turkey since the era of Sultan & Tzar, but to at hostile to your ally fighting against them in WW1! Why U Kid Favored the WW2 Soviet crudely cheap primitive expendable crap that only deserved for those over-exceeded lives of Sov. uneducated/ trained rudesby, not the Sophisticated Panther tank
@9394JP731 First, I'm not a nationalist. I don't like my country. Second, I said "I'm Turkish", because my main language is not English. I would to specify that my english is poor. Because I'm 15, and I'm not an american, or british.
@Avatar9n Explain WHY U FAVORED THE SIDE OF Stalin's Reds, The russians always want to put a hand to intervent the Turish rsgion in the Crimea & Black Sea Region & tried to ailed their fleet in & out through YourStrait, They were EVIL, BRUTAL, only looters & rapists, they looted the people of the Baltic,States. Finland & Poland. WHY DON'T U blame them? U stood by their side? hoping the Reds to win? they BLEACHED their NON-AGGRESSIVE PACT with the Japanese, Do U think they WILL TURN AGAINST U?
@9394JP731 But the big apple is: "Why are you fending the NAZIes?". I think the Soviet Union should have annexed the Turkey, too. I say again, I'm not a stalinist, I'm a marxist-leninist, which they hate the Stalin, after WWII. Also, the Stalin was not a real communist. His idea was "Communism in one country". This is not abiding with the marxism-leninism-internationalism. As well as the Stalin killed many leninist in prewar and during the war. Marxism planned for all of the Earth.
@9394JP731 Also, the Nikita Khrushchev has accused the stalin for his despotic mistakes. The marxists-leninists motto is "Workers of the world, unite!". Hereby, thinkers of this idea do not fend the stalin. And, if you accuse the communism after the cold war, you are a capitalist, it is because you think the communism is evil. But, the communism is not belong to STALIN. The capitalists think to "We understood the communism enough.". But, no. May be about the fascism or capitalism.
@9394JP731 Also, the United States kept neutral in the beginning of the war, too. But later, they helped France and Britain, such as weaponry. Nonetheless, with the Attack on Pearl Harbor on 7 December 1941, united states joined the allies.
@9394JP731 You hit the wrong man, you SON OF A BITCHHHHHHHHHH!!!! I'm gonna get a AGM-158 and I insert it your mother's cute pussy! YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT MEEEEE! Please come to Turkey. I will give my adress.
@Avatar9n Go home check your women's mouths, they started to ENJOY SUCKING, after I COOK & EAT YOUR 'STUFF' FOR ENHANCING my unlimited FUCKS. They also learned to frequently wet their cock-sucking mouths & tipped their lips with their desirable tongues!..............Thanks for your tiny chick to achieve my fucks!.........Do U have another chick or even any mini-sized bird?...I want to have deeply fried for my new fashion gameplay!.........
@9394JP731 Where are you from? United States? I will go out from my country. Because i will be a translator, so i will go many different countries for my work, and FREE! Are you a pornstar? NEVER MIND!!!! I WILL SCREW-ALL-OF-YOUR-RULING-HOUSE!!!!
@Avatar9n If U SCUM realized YOUR MORON-SELF NOT ANY SMART BY BIRTH Then NEVER RAISE A FIERCE DEVIL FOREVER STRONGER THAN U IN ALL ASPECTS, NOT TO MENTION any arrogant words TO TRIGGER HIS ANGERS!................Your "...shitty farting dumbass........cock sucking mouth..." made me angry.......NOW YOU MORON WAS TAUGHT A VERY SHAMEFUL LESSEN here!..................Just leave your moron-self alone & CRY OUT LOUD with your pillow!
@9394JP731 You are lapsing again, again and again. You couldn't understand that, I'm a Turkish, and I'm fifteen. That gives me a poor english language. You are an idiot, you didn't allow that.
@Avatar9n I AM SORRY, I didn't know you are a Turk, your freak "anti-facist" & T-34 fanboy behaviors made me mistaken U the cult of Stalin's vodka dead drunk reds they were only brutal looter/ rapists WHOM I HATED, no wonder U said never drink vodka. I RESPECT ALL U TURKS, whom I met in Istampo were nice, friendly & worth-trustful people. Your nation had long term friendly relationship with Germany, & were allies in WW1against Russia your traditional enemy in domination of the Crimea & Black Sea
@Avatar9n Turkey kept neutral with Germany in WW2, & was ready to join Hitler's camp until the turnover lately 1945, Stalin claimed their intention to bleach the non-aggression pact with Turk & would intervent the Strait by sailing warships directly into Turkish dominating Black Sea. It was freak of U to cult their rats & cockroach junior leveled cheap primitive crudely fixed rugged expendable rusty coffins, these Sov. "national prided innovative tanks" were only deserved for their simple brains
@Avatar9n Your salvage nazi (ex-ally) despite outnumbered & busy in figting all fronts but were sophisticate in tactic minds, BUTCHERED these Soviet half-blinded blundering craps & their foolhardy vodka dead drunks in hundreds of thousands in battlefields like rows of sitting ducks.
Red Orchestra: Ostfront 41-45 is a great game, but not a real simulation of tank behaviour... Besides, you should mention that this is a game, not a simulator or a video demonstration... And give some credit to the game itself, please.
The figure I have for Fl.A.K. 18 at 600 meters with a perpendicular hit is 10 centimeters penetration, meaning a projectile passes free on the other side of the plate.
IS2 turret front is rounded with an average //effective// thickness of 18 centimeters, with a maximum perpendicular thickness of 16 centimeters.
Tiger I was meat on the table. When IS2 shows up they'd have to pull back behind a PAK front.
On paper IS-2 looks good. In reality it had poor quality armour, slow firing main gun, inaccurate optics at long range, low ammo storage capacity.
By the way the 160mm armour on turret front is just the small mantlet area. The rest of the turret front was 100mm and the armour quality. The Tiger I Kwk 36 can penetrate 100mm of GERMAN HIGH QUALITY STEEL at 30 degrees at 1,000 metres. That's more than enough to penetrate the IS-2's turret front at 1,000 metres.
Soviet steel quality was good enough, and at the thickness we are talking about it may all but be ignored. Perhaps a SMALL better chance for a nonpenetration hit to create internal spall. Outside the mantlet a large portion of the turret SIDE is behind the turret front.
Turret front effective thickness of IS2 @30 degrees is 13.9 centimeters.
I know that IS-2 was not for anti tank fighting, but this particular debate is about IS-2 vs Tiger I tank v tank debates.
They did actually engage each other and the Tiger I gave as good as it got, if not better. This is borne out by actual history. The Tiger had vastly superior optics to the IS-2 and it's armour was stronger on the turret. Armour wise, defensively the IS-2 was only superior in the later version with the angled upper glacis.
Another thing to mention. Obviously the IS-2's 122mm gun was mostly for HE but as a 'tank v tank' gun the 100mm guns as seen on the SU-100 tank destroyer was better.
Initially they wanted to arm the IS-2 with the 100mm gun but they had a shortage of factory tools and equipment at the time so the went with the easier to produce 122mm gun.
IS-2's gun just wasn't very accurate beyond 800 metres or so.
@LaughingGravy31 I agree that BS3 was a better antiarmor weapon, and SU100 was designed from the ground up to be a tank killer. Most SU100 ammunition was AP, while for IS2 only half was AP.
Soviets did not bother with long range antiarmor optics or the cost of tight mechanical tolerances to take advantage of better optics, because the vast majority of tank engagements happened at 500 meters or less. Action out on the steppe would be handled with artillery and smoke.
There are numerous examples of Tiger firing at and hitting Soviet tanks at up to 3,000 metres.
For the Tiger units on the eastern front the vast majority of their engagements took place well beyond 500 metres. It was common for engagements to take place at 1,000 to 2,000 metres.
The reason why the Tiger I tank had such a high score kill number was because they could knock out Soviet tanks long before the Soviet tanks could even hit them back, nevermind penetrate their armour.
@LaughingGravy31 A 3KM line of sight is a rare beast, perhaps covering 1 small zone that an armored assaut will be through in a minuet or so. At 3KM from the front an IS2 does not have to worry. IS2 will be blasting the living Hell out of the main line of resistance, and the Tiger overwatch may go scratch at the door. A few smoke shells will cut off that problem.
@centurion180ad Unsheltered Tigers were easier be destroyed by JS-2 in UNFAVORABLE open areas, But in defense roles, the well-trained Tiger crew were smart enough to camouflage Tigers & take cover or change positions when available when with smoke to fool the Soviet scums, they COULD ACHIEVE A ONE SHOT-KILL at the gained First shot at extra long ranges w/ superior FCS & 8 rds/ min. while the JS-2 FAILED TO TRACK or RELOAD IN TIME. Not to mention ANY ADJUSTING 3 shots with ROF 1.5-2 rds/ min.
@centurion180ad e The Sophisticated Tigers & Panthers to their well-trained crew, were "HOLY SWORDS FOR THE KNIGHTS OF HONOR" Unlike those crudely primitive expendable T-34/85s to the foolhardy, pointless-blundering to ram, boorish simple brains were only "Ready for Disused to Throwaway Dirty Napkins for whores"
@LaughingGravy31 AS U see, those cults of WW2 Soviet what so victory machines were being brain-washed, ONLY TO BELIEVE IN MASTURBATED HEROIC MYTHS according to their OWN WISHFUL THOUGHTS, FEW COULD listen & VERIFY the unfold truths with their own observations & logical minds. NO WONDER TENS OF MILLIONS OF their foolhardy blunder vodka drunkards as the "previous one-track stiff-minded simple brain stuff" WERE KILLED by cross-fires in battlefields, FEW COULD SURVIVE MORE THAN 45 days in battles.
@onecheman Without the HUGE MATERIALS from the Allie's Lend Leased supplies TO RECOVER their EXTRA HEAVY TOLLS CAUSED BY THE FIERCE Germans, and TO REDEEM THEIR DESPERATE BROKEN STRENGTH & MORALE, the sub-civilized stuffs COULD ONLY KNEE DOWN TO SUCK hitler's cock & taste his shit........
@onecheman Your logic "the bigger the Soviet gun caliber is= the more powerful the Soviet gun is"? Even if your bitchy busty crudely fuckable sleep-mate HAD OVERWHELMING PAIRS OF MELON SIZED JUICY 'BIG SQUEEZE' as well as a BULKY ASS, it won't make her DESERVE ANY BETTER SEXY than the well proportioned 'bowls' of the French Sophie...What the Soviets designed & made were AS BULKY AS WATERMELONS BUT ONLY CRUDELY CHEAP PRIMITIVE CRUSTED RUGGED EXPENDABLE AWKWARD, ONLY OCCASIONAL DECENT..their ducks
""Only a 122mm HE blow up a turret of pz4... in Tiger etc it BREAK hist armor, making fisures.""
Um that's providing that the IS-2 can actually HIT any Tiger tank when it's not at a close range.
Tiger I can easily accurately hit and penetrate IS-2 over 1,000 metres.
Tigers would be penetrating the IS-2 armour long before the IS-2 can even score an accurate hit. Why else do you think the Tiger I vs IS-2 encountered mostly ended in favour of the Tiger Is? THEY HAD BETTER GUNS!!
@LaughingGravy31 U are right, the German 88 mm KwK36 & 75mm KwK42 often overrided the Sov. 122mm D-25T ( with best available ammo both sides WW2))! From PENETRATION TABLE of "Battlefield Rus. com". A: For 88mm Pzgr40 of KwK36; B: For 75mm Pzgr40 of KwK42; C: For 122mm BR-471B. The armor penetration in mm, ALL MEASURED @30 deg. TO VERTICAL, @2000m- A: 110mm, B: 106mm, C: 100mm; @1500m- A: 123mm, B: 127mm, C: 110mm; @1000m- A: 138mm, B: 149mm, C: 120mm; @500m- A: 156mm, B: 174mm, C: 125mm ONLY...
@LaughingGravy31 German KwKs OVERRIDED Sov. D-25T CONTINUED 4).: The JS-2 loader had to hold the 55lb separated ammo & chase the choking smoked gun-breech on own foot, while the PzV & VI offered logical planned spaces to crew, they could rapidly load the 31-34lb entire ammo to achieve constant ROF 6-8 rd/ min. The PzV & VI also enjoyed superior FCS with only ONE-SHOT KILL accuracy & SHOT & SMOOTH RECOILING rapid firing to minimize any unwanted disturbances from dust & smoke inside as the Sov..
@LaughingGravy31 KwK OVERRIDE CONTINUED 5). The 2nd Generation panzers had one ventilating fan above driver's-deck & the other on turret roof w/ ducts to extract smoke from gun breech to outside directly. while the Soviet big tank guns ejected extra large & dense choking smoke spreading around the cramped interior first before extracted through the raised ventilating doom on turret roof, served only to block the visions of cupola. As the JS's firing & loading dust & smoke spreaded violently.
@LaughingGravy31 Kwk OVERRIDED Sov. big gun CONTINUED 6a). Despite in artillery roles the D-25T had 55lb HE for superior single blow, while the HE for 75 & 88mm gun seemed only 15- 20 lb. The 55lb served better in attacking fortified strong holds/ bunkers or the concentration of enemy materials & personnels even under shelters w/ a deeply striking single blow. While the PzV & VI could deal with separated fast moving targets eg. AFVs w/ overwhelming nos. of carried HE rounds more effectively...
@onecheman What the quality of what so thick armor of JS-2M s were ONLY AS CRISPY AS the PIG IRON SEWAGE PIPES only waiting to be smashed by the mighty Tigers to honey comb them at will to those shattered "volcanic easter eggs",.......Time to say good-bye to your beloved pussy.....dust to dust, ash to ash!...... :-(
The Soviets make up a lot of crap about the King Tiger. They say it had poor armour and fell apart at the weld seems when hit. This is nonsense and there is no evidence for this at all. The western allies faced the King Tiger too and do not claim the nonsesne that the Soviets claim.
In fact there are plenty of pictures of King Tigers with hits on the front (even on the weld seems) and they tank did not fall apart and the armour wasn't penetrated.
@LaughingGravy31 DON'T BOTHER what the Stalin's HABITUAL MASTURBATORY FARTINGS, Winston Churchill pointed out that they WERE NEVER ANY TRUSTFUL HUMANS NOR ANY RELIABLE ALLY, From their lies of the thousands reports of claimed destruction of Tigers & Ferdinands in Kursk revealed to be Pz4 & SPGs, Moreover the Highest Official Claims of mass murdering of 2200 poles in Kaiyt Forest by what so Nazis in WW2 were also TURNED DOWN & 'CONFESTED THE EVILS DONE BY NYVD' by their OWN President in 1991.
Yes Soviet propaganda and lies are complete bullshite.They claimed 70 Tigers were destroyed at Prokhorovka on 12th July 1943 even though the Germans only had just 43 Tigers in total in that whole sector and just ONE Tiger was lost around Prokhorovka on 12th July 1943.
The Soviets suffered such a heavy amount of losses at Kursk that they exaggerated the numbers of the attacking German forces so that they could justify losing so many tanks and men.
@LaughingGravy31 A little bird from "onecheman" told me that he has the pleasure to share with us his joy of his fashioned-caterings with "eggs & chick", What's in "Today's Special" is designed " Russki Sparkling Volcanic Easter Eggs Ice-Cream with Roasted Chicken Meat Hot-Dog in Tomato Paste", I regret his "Broshevik style vodka-drunk tastes" is forever too much for my "said-Nazi" stomach, I am afraid to "throw up" very unpleasantly. Do U want to taste some his " FROM RUSSIA WITH #*@....."? :-D
@LaughingGravy31 The Soviet claimed their what so destroyed 41 Tigers in Kozen with loss of only 8 JS-1& 2 were discovered by historians as only lies.
@LaughingGravy31 For further detailed informations of what the Soviets said bad the King Tigers, please go to "RussianBattlefield- Was the Tiger II Really King" to verify.......... Regards!!
Yes that website Russian Battlefield is full of nonsense with no verification to back up many of their claims.
According to the silly Soviet propaganda the King Tiger more or less fell apart in pieces when hit and that the weld seams split open everywhere. Of course they shown no photo to prove this. It's Soviet nonsense, nothing more.
The British and the Americans (who also faced the King Tiger) do NOT claim what the Soviets claim. The Brits and Yanks don't claim they fell apart.
@LaughingGravy31 It is a habit of Soviets to belittle the legacy & military mights of other nations so as to make a big discripencies between them for glorifying the heros, great leaderships related to the pride of their regime. they despited the more sophisticated M4 Shermans as 'cookers' facing Panthers, only their T34/85 deserved what so an equivalent .....their half-blinded cumbersome JS-2 & SU-152 were what so "Tiger Killers",...masturbated destroyed 85% total Nazi strength themselves etc.
@LaughingGravy31 I am only debating the merits of Soviet vs. Wehrmacht //vehicles// and the logistics necessarily arising from their production methods, NOT the crew quality, doctrine or any of the particular historic outcomes.
Let's try this experiment.
Let’s say the Germans & Soviets swap all their heavy tanks. Who has come off the better in that swap?
@onecheman The Mighty Tigers WERE MORE THAN POWERFUL ENOUGH TO FUCK your beloved IS-2 pussy Russian "Hopzilla" from mouth to anal farting hole THROUGHLY!! As their SUPERIOR Pzgr40 of KwK36 OFTEN OVERRIDED the UNHANDY BR-471B only cumbersome but inaccurate bulky D-25T gun up to 2000m OUT OF your half-blinded IS-2's SIGHT.
In January 1945 American paratroopers did some test firing on an abandoned King Tiger during the Battle Of The Bulge.
At less than 100 metres they fired both bazooka shots and panzerfaust shots at the front of the King Tiger. The glacis plate was not penetrated. There were hits on the weld seams but they did not split. There are pictures that prove this. The armour was still strong in 1944/45. Panzerfaust is supposed to be able to penetrate 200mm of armour yet failed to penetrate.
@LaughingGravy31 The Quality of armor of Tigers were the best in the world, but it was say the hardeness of the King Tiger's armor was low- medium (to be verified). maybe the drop of quality was caused by the lacking of manganese & other essential compositions since the fall of 1944. No other nations in WW2 than the Germans adopted the face-harden armor, good endurances & lighter in total weight, but took longer man-materials to achieve. The USA & USSR preferred the mass productive cast-type
Yes. The quality of armour in the King Tiger and Jagdtiger was of lower quality in 1944/45. However their armour thickness was so much (150mm and 180mm in the King Tiger and 250mm in the Jagdtiger)that it really didn't matter. The seams certainly didn't split.
Tiger Is produced from 1942 to 1944 had the best quality steel of any tank made during WW2. It's armour quality was extremely high so even though it was slab sided and vertical it was still stronger than sloped Soviet steel.
@LaughingGravy31 More King Tigers were abandoned due to mechanical breakdowns, lacking of fuel & air-raids other than being destroyed by enemy. I loved the King Tigers, but they were rather fuel-consuming & lower in power to wt. ratio for expected mobilities. Moreover they were too oversized to conceal or transport by trains. 10 years later the Sov. 35 ton T-55 could afford similar firepower, adequate protection but better mobility & mass productive with lower maintaining costs.
@onecheman But your POINTLESS FARTING REVEALED U MORON NOTHING BETTER than those HABITUAL MASTURBATING VODKA DEAD DRUNK Reds, ALSO UNSCRUPOUROUSLY DRUNK FARTING ALL BULLSHITS AS those scums, The only differences are: U MORON NOT ONLY HAD A MORE BULKY CRUSTED RUGGED FLAT STUB SWINE PATTERN VODKA VOMITIVE (has strong odors of the stuffs vomited) STICKY PASTY RED NOSE, & A EVEN WORSE BOORISH SIMPLE BRAIN WITH VERY POOR LOGICAL MINDS & COMMON SENSES.......WHY NOT???....... :-D :-P :-)
Can you please give me specific battles and actual engagement where the IS-2 "fucks a Tiger from A to Z"?
Why don't you starts citing actual examples?
I have already cited the battles around Tinokva, Ternopol, Tirgu Fromus, Malinava and Karnievo where the Tiger I most definitely overcame IS-2s and left them burning wrecks on the battlefield.
And please grow up. BOTH tanks were a danger to the other, but the IS-2 had a weakness in range and rate of fire.
@LaughingGravy31 In the Battle for Targul Frumos on May2,1944, two bridgates of Tigers & Panthers successfully decoyed swarms of Soviet tanks in German favored terrains, destroyed more than 350 JS-2 & T-34/85 tanks with loses ratio of 1:20. ONE MORE TYPICAL EXAMPLE OF MIGHTY ' Tigers & Panthers NOTABLY FUCKED THE SOVIET NATIONAL PRIDED "VICTORY MACHINES" the JS & T-34/85' AGAIN. The destroyed Sov. tanks littered with lots honey-combs & burst like 'sparkling volcanic ice-creamed easter eggs"
@LaughingGravy31 By the way, in the said website U can look into "Photo" as there are also many detailed sections isometric interior drawings & dimensional drawings showing the layout of armor thickness of various sorts of Soviet AFVs. Besides, there are PENETRATION TABLES of Soviet, German & American tank guns as well as tables of types of Soviet ammo, devices (eg. Radios & FCS).
@onecheman WERE I ANY your said "Nazi", I NOT ONLY WILL BREAK INTO YOUR SHIT MOUTH TO PLUG OFF ALL YOUR GOLD TEETH just like enforcing to open the oysters to to seize pearls, I WILL ALSO GUT & TEAR APART "YOUR BUG-MESSED ROTTEN EGGS & TINY DEPLETED FOREVER HUMBLE CHICK" to test IF YOUR DEFORMED STUFFS ANY ABLE TO FUCK A BITCH from A to Z, if not so, then I WILL THROW YOUR "BLOODY DUMP OF UGLY-DISGUSTING STUFFS" TO FEED THE SWINES FOR FUN! I have pleasure ENJOY WATCHING them taking a free lunch
@onecheman A little bird tell me that it would be very impressive if I BBQ your "BLOODY DUMP OF UGLY-DISGUSTING BUG-MESSED ROTTEN BALLS & TINY DEPLETED FOREVER HUMBLE CHICK" in a micro-wave oven, YOUR DISGUSTING STUFFS WILL SWELL & BURST VIOLENTLY just like the "Russki SPARKLING VOLCANIC EASTER EGG ICE-CREAM WITH ROASTED HOT-DOG IN TOMATO PASTE".........CHEERS!!!!!......You have the right to choose "SHALLOW FIRED" for your "HOT-DOG in BLACK-PEPPER SAUCE or even CURLY & MINCED ".....WHY NOT??
@onecheman Please don't make us laugh loudly in your moron face! WERE your JS-2 ANY ABLE TO your what so "fucks a Tiger from A to Z", YOUR 1500 kg Rus HOPZILLA (=giant wild swine) CAN CLIMB UP TO THE TREE TOP 500 ft RISE UP FROM GROUND TO WATCH A STAR..as every thing "FROM RUSSIA WITH #@%^*" IS ILLOGICAL, CUMBERSOME, ANTI-ERGONOMIC, UNRELIABLE, EXAGGERATED MASTURBATING, CRUDELY-BULKY, PRIMITIVE, CRUSTED RUGGED, SHORT-SIGHTED, STIFF & NARROW-MINDED from U stuff to nuclear submarines- K141 KURSK
@onecheman Your big gunned JS-2 "what so fucks any Tiger"...... Even U MORON have an EXAGGERATED EVER SWELLING WC-SIZED BIG HEAD, IT DOESN'T MEAN U HAVE A SMARTER BRAIN, STILL MORE THAN 100% STUPID;...YOUR PROTRUDED SWINE PATTERN RUGGED RED NOSE DOESN'T LET U ANY BETTER SENSES;.....YOUR CRUSTED BULKY BODY & PUFFY BIG BELLY ONLY MAKE U AS CUMBERSOME AS A WATER-MELON & ONLY A HUMAN-SANDBAG;.......YOUR HABITUAL MASTURBATING CHICK ONLY A DISGRACEFUL FOREVER HUMBLE PISS-LEAKED......:-D......WHY NOT??
@onecheman A kid of 12 shot your HABITUAL FAVORED 1000kg "russian hopzilla (=giant swine)", REVEALED THE MYTH ANY YOUR BELIEVED "SIZE DOES MATTER" IS NOTHING BUT ONLY TO FOOL THOSE BOORISH SIMPLE BRAINED "FROM RUXXyA WITH^%*= CRUSTED RUGGED RED NOSED FARTING VODKA DEAD DRUNKARDS" as U stuff..........No wonder tens of thousands of Your BROSHEVIK FOOLHARDY BLUNDERING BOORISH SIMPLE BRAINS WERE HONEY COMBED TO CRUMBLY MINCE-GUTTED BLOODY PASTE in VOLCANIC Soviet tanks by SUPERIOR German panzers!
""Tiger I was meat on the table. When IS2 shows up they'd have to pull back behind a PAK front.""
Not true at all. Tiger I defeated IS-2 at Tinovka, at Ternopol, at Targul Fromus, at Malinava at Karnievo etc.
Tiger I was pretty safe from IS-2 at 1,000 metres plus because the IS-2 couldn't even hit them. Or at least if a IS-2 managed to hit a Tiger I at 1,000 metres plus it was a rarity and a lucky shot. In contrast Tiger I was accurate at over 2,000 metres.
@LaughingGravy31 How many Tiger I were lost in these actions that you mention? Very few Tiger I were lost to IS2 probably because they were smart enough to not be standing on the square marked X that the IS2s were going to move through, and the Soviets didn't use IS2 in an anti-tank roll anyway. Tiger I had a tall wide cross section, and IS2 would have little trouble hitting 1 in the open. During a defensive action, Tiger would hide!
The most famous Tiger I vs IS-2 encounter was the Malinava/Krivani engagement on 22nd July 1944. 2 Tiger Is (Carius and Kerscher) of battalion 502 knocked out 17 IS-2s and 5 T-34/85s. This was actually more impressive than Wittmann at Villers Bocage but Carius and Kerscher were not Waffen SS so were not as 'celebrated'.
@LaughingGravy31 Excuse me for having to ask, but who do you think won World War Two by over running an enemy capital city and killing or capturing the entire political leadership of its enemy?
Um WW2 was won by the combined might of the Soviets, the USA, The British and their Commonwealth and a host of other countries.
The Soviets or Americans or British were not 'better' than the Germans. There were just MORE of them. The Soviets would have been toast if the Germans were not fighting on two fronts or if they were not supplied aid by Lend Lease.
The German's had a 4 to 1 kill ratio over Soviet soldiers and armour in WW2 and that's a FACT.
@LaughingGravy31 Panther was better than T34/85. Better gun, better armour, quite agile.
It had poor optics and a disappointing gun. Even the Panzer IV's 75mm L/48 gun was superior to the T-34/85's 85mm gun.
Yes we all know the german 7,5mm was great enought but, for what you want it if all hits in a T34-85 bounces ? Armor from 85 was pretty good and more with his angles.
The armour from panther was a shit. and Agile?! HA HA HA all time breaking engine, etc etc etc. Dont make me laugh
The Panther was quite agile for it's size. It had good ground pressure. Only the early ausf D version in 1943 had many mechanical problems. By the time the late Ausf A and then the Ausf G versions come out these problems were gone and the Panther ended up being the best all round tank of WW2.
It was FAR SUPERIOR to the T-34/85.
Even the American Sherman 76mm HVSS outperformed the T-34/85 in Korea.
You do know that over 45,000 T-34s were destroyed in WW2 don't you?
@LaughingGravy31 Problems with transmition, etc. Ask german tankers, what happens in the mornings of winter ;) All tanks stucked and T34 coming for OWN they.
From for example 5 Tigers, only 2 get the battle front, the other 3 break in the way, the same like Panthers, transmition, engine, etc.
And ask the ingeniers, pass such a tank of this over a bridge was a real head feeder.
Then... don't come to me with "Pz V was agile..."
@LaughingGravy31 The WW2 Soviets were nothing but excellent farting scums, Their masturbated 122mm D-25T gun was only an inaccurate gun-howitzer w/o very poor FCS, low Rate OF Fire (ROF) & muzzle velocity. From "Battlefield rus" penetration table, it's piecing power was inferior to that of Tiger & Panther (best ammo available in WW2,122mm BR-471B vs 88 or 75mm Pzgr40) from 500-2000m @30 deg. to vertical.They adopted bigger tank guns ONLY TO COMPENSATE POORER GUN CONSTRUCTION & SUBSTANDARD AMMO
@LaughingGravy31 Despite the WW2 Soviets yielded some 55000 all sorts of T-34/85 & more than 13000 KV, JS heavy tanks & ISU heavy assault guns to swarm their enemy with overwhelming numbers LIKE PESTS as rats & cockroaches. MORE THAN 45000 T-34s, 5200 KV/ JS heavy tanks & 2300 heavy assault guns were destroyed despite their overwhelming numbers (source- "World Tank Museum" & "Stalin's Heavy Tanks, 1939-45"). The "T-34/85= best tank or "JS-2=victory tank" were ONLY TO FOOL BOORISH SIMPLE BRAINS!
T-34 = not even a 1-1 kill ratio. The T-34 is in the MINUS category. Over 45,000 T-34s were destroyed in WW2 and they didn't destroy 45,000 German tanks in response. LOL.
@LaughingGravy31 KwK OVERRIDED Sov. big guns CONTINUED 6b).: .But IN TERMS OF (HE) FIRED PER MINUTE, the HE fired by JS-2's 55lb shells=55 lb X 1.5= 82.5 lb/ min,; For Panther's 15 lb HE =15 X 8 =120 lb/ min.; For Tiger's 20 lb HE = 20 X 8 = 160 lb/ min.......NOTHING INFERIOR FOR the German rapid firing KwKs in (Extensive Shallower other than Concentrated Depth) Artillery role, The KwK could fired overwhelming nos.of HE rds at stationery target TO COMPENSATE the lesser HE blasting per round
@LaughingGravy31 Since the German panzers had superior optics for periscopes & FCS, also better throat-microphone radios to alert other collaborating panzers WITHVERY CLEAR INSTRUCTIONS, they FORMED A WIDER NETWORK of well coordinated battle formation, thus could discover & gain chances to fire first. While the primitively fixed T-34/85 & JS-2 even up-graded w/ what so CRUDELY DECENT COPY-CAT 3man turret, multi-vision cupola & radios, FAILED TO ORGANIZE COORDINATING WORKS W/ obscured orders.
@LaughingGravy31 Despite the JS-2M had "bigger" gun & thick sloped frontal armor, the obsolete Tiger only to set the panzer @ 1-2 or 10-11 O-clock to deflect the BR shells, In return, they could conceal the panzer with nets, leaved branches behind houses to match the surroundings & to wait for shooting at the nearest to right angles TO MINIMIZE THE THICKNESS of the glascis of the Soviet tanks approaching up or down slopes. The JS-2M driver's direct peeping slot was only shielded by shallow strip
@9394JP731 ...but if TIGER I turns at a 30 degree angle to IS2 to increase its glacis angle, it also exposes its long body side armor that increases its exposed surface area of an already high & wide target cross section, thus giving the Soviet gunner a better and overall more vulnerable target to shoot at.
@centurion180ad If the Tiger was to combat with JS-2M, a). In the defensive role, it set at angular position to maximize deflecting the BR-471B, then adopted the terrain to hide itself among the houses/ trees or even decorated with camouflaged net & leaved branches to fool the JS. b). In offensive, it quickly flanked the JS-2 under the cover of smoke, as the SLOW-RESPONDING JS-2 COULD NOT spin it 's big gun or aim to track fast moving target IN TIME, it ALSO TILTED VIOLENTLY as firing to sides
@LaughingGravy31 From "WW2 Soviet TanK Units, 1939-1945" The AVERAGE lost ratio of the OUTNUMBERED German panzer (ALL Fronts) VS Sov. tanks (ONE Front ONLY) in WW2 was 1:4.5.
@LaughingGravy31 Your anti-Soviet spin is too much for my stomach to handle.
The prewar doctrine of Marshal Mikhail Nikolayevich Tukhachevsky was eventually realized, and it then put the Nazis to the sword. Leningrad held out all the way from 1941, and Moscow repulsed the Nazis that same year. Stalingrad was the following year with only the first trickle of lend lease. Then the stunning victory at Kursk with admittedly Lend Lease, but very lean allied air campaign.
What is your damn problem? I am not 'anti' or 'pro' anything. I'm BRITISH. My country fought AGAINST Germany in WW2. My grandfather was in the Royal Air Force. My other grandfather was a British 'Red Devil' Paratrooper.
I just present facts, and here they are.
1. The Tiger I tank defeated IS-2 on a number of occasions. It wasn't 'dead meat'. Please inform yourself of real life Tiger v IS-2 encounters.
2. The Soviets lost some 120,000 AFVs in WW2, including 50,000 T-34s.
@LaughingGravy31 I just presented facts. Crew quality was not initially part of my argument.
Nazi Germany had AXIS allies, masses of slave labor, and plunder resources from ALL of continental Europe. AXIS power including Imperial Japan handed the Nazi state, all of Europe on a platter.
SOVIETS were the only power that eventually ended a Theater War by occupying-by-combat an enemy capital and destroyed enough of the enemy means of resistance on the ground to COMPELL surrender.
Nazi Germany's Axis allies and slave labour doesn't even begin to compare to the combined might and manpower of the Soviet Union, USA, British Commonwealth and all the other participants involved in the struggle against Hitler.
@LaughingGravy31 That is not what Hitler thought, that is not what his General Staff thought, that is not what American leadership thought, that is not what Commonwealth leadership thought, and that is not what STAVKA though.
Pretty much the only person thinking that, is you.
By January 1942 the allies were losing the war hands down.
Oh come off it. It's historical consensus that Hitler's biggest mistake in attacking the Soviet Union was to not beat Britain first. Had Hitler fully concentrated on defeating Britain before attacking the Soviet Union then its likely the Soviet Union would have fallen.
With Britain defeated then the Axis would have controlled all of Europe, the Mediterranean, North Africa, Middle East and eastern Atlantic. Nations like Turkey and Spain would likely have joined the Axis.
If Britain falls in 1941 then there is no more war in North Africa and the Mediterranean. With Turkey joining the Axis then that is another area of advance into the Soviet Union. All those German and Italian troops previously in North Africa could have joined with Turkey and attacked along the south Black Sea coast into Soviet Georgia. It's not far from the Turkish border to Tbilisi.
Turkey was waiting to see how the war panned out before getting involved. If Britain fell = Turkey joins Axis.
@LaughingGravy31 The MORE DESTRUCTIONS & BIGGER BLOODY BATTLES Hitler IMPOSED ONTO Stalin's side, the MORE BURDENS WERE THROWN TO THE Vodka drunkards from the West shoulders, Thus Stalin's scums WERE HEAVILY TOLLED MORE THAN 35M (millions), NOT 26M, including nearly 12M personnels military dead (ONE Front), GB ONLY lost LESS THAN 48000 ALL theatres. NOT TO MENTION the scums ANY CAUSED the Reich's what so >85% total loses, TOTALLY SOVIET SIGNATURE HABITUAL MASTURBATORY FARTINGS!!.......WHY NOT??
@LaughingGravy31 It is also consensus that occupation of the English islands by the Wehrmacht was an impossibility, hence a total capitulation was impossible.
It would have required an entirely different Nazi redistribution of naval units from the outset to strangle England to win Battle of the Atlantic, and even if they were strangled America would have fought their way through at the expense of Lead Lease to releive England.
Lenningrad held out for 900 days, so could England.
If Germany didn't have over 1 million men stationed in western Europe from Norway down to the Mediterranean at the time Barbarossa took place then the Soviets would have been beaten.
The Germans had over 400,000 troops in Norway alone guarding against the British.
If it was just Germany vs the Soviet Union in 1941 with no western front then the Soviets would have been defeated by 1942.
Germany was superior to Soviet Union. A 4 to 1 kill ratio says it all.
@LaughingGravy31 IF, if, //if//, **if**, if..... two can play that game all day and all night.
What if Nazis didn't have millions of slave labor? What if Nazis didn't have all the plundered factories and natural resources from occupied western & central Europe? What if the Nazis didn't have over a million troops in infantry divisions from Italy, Rumania, Spain, France, Low Countries, Ukraine?
What if Nazis didn have plunder artillery of occupied Europe?
Tinovka. Tigers lost =0. Ternopol. Tigers lost =0. Malinava. Tigers lost = 0 Targul Fromus. Tigers lost = 0 Karnievo. Tigers lost = 0.
The most famous Tiger I vs IS-2 encounter was the Malinava/Krivani engagement on 22nd July 1944. 2 Tiger Is (Carius and Kerscher) of battalion 502 knocked out 17 IS-2s and 5 T-34/85s. This was actually more impressive than Wittmann at Villers Bocage but Carius and Kerscher were not Waffen SS so were not as 'celebrated'.
Why would it? The IS-2 isn't likely to hit any tank beyond 800 metres. The Tiger could sit off at 1,000 m plus and let it's powerful and accurate 88mm kwk 36 score some hits on the IS-2 turret or lower front glacis.
@LaughingGravy31 This isn't a discussion of facts and technical performance, this is a political discussion with you, and you obviously have an ax to grind.
Any hit from a D25T on the front of the very high & wide profile of Tiger-I has a near certainty of blowing right through, causing a catastrophic fire, and killing all 5 crew. Any hit on IS2 by Tiger-I has but a small probability of obtaining a penetration. Tiger-I is going to be badly outnumbered, and they did lose the war..
I am debating IS-2 vs Tiger I. I don't care about politics or ideologies.
You made so many erroneous claims about IS-2 vs Tiger I.
You were obviously ignorant about the number of times the two tanks actually engaged on the battlefield and the Tiger I was not outclassed by the IS-2. Far from it. The Tiger I actually performed well against the IS-2 in a number of famous engagements. IS-2 looked superior on paper. It wasn't in REALITY.
@LaughingGravy31 I have had good data on both guns & armor for a very long time, and I don't put my nose too deep in memoirs written by heros about other dead heros. I challenge your reality argument.
Wehrmacht were forced between a rock and a hard place, where crew quality would be a deciding factor if desparity in equipment or situation was not too one sided. At > 1,200 meters in a defensive hide Tiger could get off well aimed rapid fire, but cutting the range was too dangerous.
@LaughingGravy31 I have had good data on both guns & armor for a very long time, and I don't put my nose too deep in memoirs written by heroes about other dead heroes. I challenge your reality argument.
Wehrmacht were forced between a rock and a hard place, where crew quality would be a deciding factor if disparity in equipment or situation was not too one sided. At > 1,200 meters in a defensive hide Tiger could get off well aimed rapid fire, but cutting the range was too dangerous.
Why would I have an axe to grind? I am BRITISH. My country was fighting AGAINST Germany in WW2.
Look, the IS-2 had poor quality armour, was slow firing, had an inaccurate gun at long range, had a low ammo storage capacity, had a cramped turret with no turret basket , couldn't hit an enemy tank over 800 metres.
As a breakthrough tank against soft targets and bunkers it was good. In tank v tank fighting vs Tigers it was not so good.
@LaughingGravy31 U are a fair English not being blinded by WW2 hostile emotion w/ Germans! The American L.L. USSR including 501,660 various advanced vehicles & 22800 tanks (more than German highest yearly production only 9161 panzers in 1944) some 7500 Cobra-types attackers........etc. thus redeemed the desperate dying-broken strength & morale of USSR. The American President refused to listen to Churchill's warning of Stalin NEVER ANY TRUSTFUL,the redeemed turned against them in the Korean War
@LaughingGravy31 Read the book "WW2 Russian tanks 1939-1945, Stalin's Armored Might" by Tim Beam & Will Frowler, U will find many short-comings of Sov. tanks. it helps me a lot in writing comments in YouTube!
Yes the Soviet tanks had many short comings. Not the least was their poor workmanship, poor armour quality, inferior optics and less than impressive guns.The Soviet's philosophy was that their tanks were not going to last long in action anyway so they didn't bother to make them with excellence. They knew they were likely going to be destroyed quickly so they concentrated more on making as many as possible.For the Soviets it quantity over quality.
@LaughingGravy31 German KwKs OVERRIDED the Sov. 122mm D-25T CONTINUED 2).: The Sov. D-25T had only lower Muzzle Velocity (MV) 780m/s, But A & B 're 930-1120m/s, to achieve straight trajectory & could hit accurately >1500m, C couldn't match expected target even aimed.
@LaughingGravy31 German KwK OVERRIDED Sov. D-25T CONTINUED 3).: The D-25T COULD NOT SUSTAIN a Rate Of Fire of 2 rd/ min. because of loading 55lb separated ammo in cramped anti-ergonomic area, both the gunner & loader's seat (@ RHS) could not turn alongside the turret, he had to pick up unhandy ammo from boxes under floor mat littering w/ ejected red hot cases, he also had to dispose cases @ pot lower LHS hull. I BET the exhausted loader only achieve 1-1.5 rd/ min. at the starting 3 minute..
@9394JP731 Soviet propellant charges were not in cases, so there was no hot brass on the floor of IS2.
Most of the IS2 shells were stored upright in the aft of the turret in the overhang up at chest level, and a few upright at the back of the crew compartment. Light weight propellant charges in bags, were on the floor along the sides of the compartment.
@centurion180ad Please verify your informations of JS-2 ammo. It was from the "Wiki"- a). "JS-2 tank": The drawing shows the RIMMED CASE of propellant charge, NOT AS WHAT U SAID or any combustible bags as in naval guns. but RESEMBLE TO the ammo of Hunting Tiger type. b). "122mm gun M193I/ 1937 (A-19)": It stated "...separate ammo...propellant....IN CASES...". Thus there were ejected red hot cases littered the tank floor, & the loader at LHS was TO DISPOSE THROUGH THE POT @ RHS of lower hull
@9394JP731 IS2m main armament is a slightly modified vehicle version of an artillery piece that uses sectional ammunition. Sectional ammunition does not use a brass case; it uses its artillery propellant charge.
The cases in that vehicle that you are thinking off were combustible waxpaper-board, not metal.
@centurion180ad From documentaries, both the A-19 & ML-20 had EJECTED METAL (not sure any brass) CASES, NOT COMBUSTIBLE propellant bags or card board cases! THUS THERE WERE BIG POSSIBILITY FOR RED HOT EJECTED CASES LITTERED ROLLING on the floor matt covering the ammo boxes inside JS-2 tanks, hindered normal loadings to gun breeches. The ejecting pot at LHS of lower hull (between the !st & 2nd boggies) were FREAK for the loader at RHS, like shallowing piss & shit but to vomit vodka & bread :-D
@9394JP731 I checked it. You are correct, and I stand corrected. The A-19 had cased propellant.
That said, cased propellant is relitively light weight stowed down on the floor at the sides of the fighting compartment, and the heavy 25 kilogram shells were stowed up at chest level stacked upright at the back of the turret.
It seems to me that before an action any hard to reach boxes would have the cases removed, and stacked up near the loader's feet to be fired off FIRST.
@centurion180ad Even one shot failed to penetrate te JS-2M, the Tie COULD STILL FIRE OVERWHELMING NOS. of shots to honey comb the POOR-RESPONDING JS as flanking its unfavorable shooting sides, I BET the CUMBERSOME CRAP FAILED TO SPIN it's 122mmX5m gun at trough terrains as the KV-2 did! 2 Tigers under Otto Carius of GD destroyed 17 JS-2 & T-34/85 in 20 minutes. A single Panther of 2nd SS Arno Giesen not only protected a bridge, but also butchered 14 JS-2 & T-34/85 at the outskirt of Vienna!
@9394JP731 I was only debating the merits of Soviet vs. Wehrmacht //vehicles// and the logistics necessarily arising from their production methods, NOT the crew quality, doctrine or any of the particular historic outcomes.
Let's try this experiment.
Let’s say the Germans & Soviets swap all their heavy tanks. Who has come off the better in that swap?
This has been flagged as spam show
youtube.com/watch?v=467hCNuGvNw
Ron Paul: "We're all Austrians now"
ron Paulus: "Wir sind jetzt alle Österreicher"
youtube.com/watch?v=jcGZT7JBDqc
Ron Paul: We. Need. To. Defend. Liberty.
ron Paulus: Wir. müssen. Freiheit. schützen.
RONALDUS PAULUS: LIBERTAS DEFENDENDA EST
TRANSLATE! ÜBERSETZEN SIE!
WAKE UP AMERICA! AMERIKA ERWACHE!
GM4ThePeople 3 weeks ago
What game is this?
migumore 2 months ago
@migumore Red Orchestra
mark82101 2 months ago
Пусть сто двадцать два миллиметра
Доходчиво всем обьяснят,
Мы башни сдуваем как ветром
У этих пятнистых ребят.
viktorstst 3 months ago
You fascists ideas are not important on reality. IS-2 is better than Tiger I, also Tiger I is only good against T-34-76s in Battle of Kursk. Also Soviet tanks won the Battle of Kursk.
Avatar9n 3 months ago
@Avatar9n
WTF are you talking about the Tiger1 was a promenant tank throughout WW2 42-44.Only good against T-34's? It was great at killing them it was a 10:1 kill ratio in the Tiger 1 favor.The German tanks always out ranged the allies.The IS2 had decent armour however the 122mm was an artillary piece and it wasn't all that great the German panthers 75L70was better and the King Tigers 88L71was alot better.Check history before you post talk to any ally tanker who survived theyll tell you.
The2001cobra 3 months ago
@The2001cobra The JS-2's thick armor was TO COMPENSATE their POOR QUALITY, by reducing the size & ESSENTIAL ACTIVITY SPACES for crew, resulted in GENERAL DEGRADE OF PERFORMANCES. The Sovets mounted biggest guns in tanks HOPING TO COMPENSATE their normal size tank gun's INCOMPETENCY OF POOR GUN CONSTRUCTIONS & SUBSTANDARD AMMOS, they STILL NOT MATCH the SUPERIOR German PERFORMANCE STANDARDS, NOT TO MENTION their INFERIOR FCS & OBSCURED BUBBLED OPTICS WITH IMPURITIES, FAILED TO GAIN THE FIRST SHOT
9394JP731 3 months ago
@The2001cobra The fans of-T34/85 & JS-2 always failed to observe the anti-ergonomic interiors caused difficulties of observing, aiming & loading the dreamed "bigger" gun, the fixed seats of gun crew, cramped turret ring & ammo below floor matt, & ejection-pot at opposite side to the loader, hindered the smooth float of loader & gunner. No fans discovered the gunner's drop-gum periscope & the raised ventilating dome blocked the commander's vision from cupola. The NOTABLE SHOT-TRAP NEVER REMEDIED
9394JP731 3 months ago
@Avatar9n EAT SHIT U SCUM! the Mighty Tiger's Pzgr40 s FOREVER BETTER IN PENETRATION than the WW2 Sov. BEST AVAILABLE AP ammo 122mm BR-471B from 500m to 2000m. Check the Penetration Tables of "battlefield.ru" BEFORE U SCUM HABITUAL POINTLESS FARTINGS!!! The Germans BUTCHERED MORE THAN 800000 your foolhardy blundering boorish simple brains, with loses of 863303 (MORE THAN 7 times to German's 170000) lives of vodka drunkards & 6064 (MORE THAN 5 times to German's ONLY 720) of tanks! CHECK "Wiki" U!
9394JP731 3 months ago
@Avatar9n Even the WW2 Soviets BENEFITED themselves FROM the West Allies' HUGE LEND LEASED SUPPLIES OF MORE THAN 22800 tanks (MORE THAN the German highest yearly production of 9161panzers in 1944) & 501660 various MORE ADVANCED vehicles than the Soviet 343624 retarded cars...!.18700 planes...11000 railcars, 8700 trackers, 8216 AA guns, 5800 AT guns...350000 production machines, 32000000 tons dynamites TO RECOVER EXTRA HIGH LOSES CAUSED BY SUPERIOR Germans, They STILL LOST MORE THAN 950000 tanks!
9394JP731 3 months ago
@Avatar9n Your SHALLOW ILLOGICAL POINTLESS ARGUMENTS REVEALED there were still many fans FAILED TO USE THEIR OBSERVATIONS & LOGICAL MINDS, ONLY EASILY TO BE FOOLED BY ONE-TRACK SHALLOW MINDED OWN WISHFUL DREAMED IMPRESSIONS, no wonder tens of thousands of foolhardy blundering red nosed vodka drunkards as U boorish simple brained stuff were repeatedly killed shortly in battlefields by superior German cross fires. They HAD NO SENSES OF & FAILED TO ADOPT ANY TACTICS!
9394JP731 3 months ago
@9394JP731 Fuck you brainwashed idiot! Are you racing and cussing with anyone for a tank! Fuck your idiot foolish fascist brain and fuck your vodka! I never drink votka before and if you accussing the Soviets for their vodka, the capitalists drink much more booze than their votka. I accede, Tiger I's high velocity 8.8 cm KwK 36 L/56 weapon can penetrate IS-2 tank about 1000-1100 metres.
Avatar9n 3 months ago
@9394JP731 But IS-2's D25-t 122 mm is not poor, it can penetrate 155 armour when fired from 500 m, so it can penetrate the Tiger I's armour. 88 mm kwk 36 better than 122 mm, because d-25t was a artillary gun which uses bigger warhead. Also, Tiger I's armour was only thick, not sloped. And tiger I's armour is 120 mm, IS-2's 160 mm. 8.8 cm can penetrate its 160 mm armour, but IS-2 has more advantage on medium and light tanks and anti-tank rockets.
Avatar9n 3 months ago
@9394JP731 Tiger II (King Tiger) was superior than IS-2, with its thicker and sloped armour like Panzerkampfwagen V Panther. Tiger I's engine was powerfull (514.8 kW). But Tiger I's complicated hydraulic mechanism was its hotspot. Many Tiger I crew seen in combat area while they was leaving it alone. When it is coerced, its engine may stop or burn. Perhaps Tiger I is better than IS-2 with its 88 mm high velocity gun, but against developed IS-3 and its 220 mm sloped armour, its not.
Avatar9n 3 months ago
@Avatar9n Your IS-3's whatsoever 200 mm armor WAS NOT on the 'pike' sloped front, but ONLY AN ARMOR BELT AROUND the bottom of casted turret. From your words, U REVEALED FAILED TO UNDERSTAND: 1). The sloped front was ONLY 90-120 mm thk. 2). The said 200 mm WAS NOT UNIFORM thickness at any points normal to the surface tangent, ONLY A MAXIMUM THICKNESS MEASURED FROM ASSUMED HORIZONTAL PATH of hostile shot TRAJECTORY, the cramped interior LIMITED ELEV/ DEPRESSION of the gun, FAILED TO HULL DOWN!
9394JP731 3 months ago
@9394JP731 GIVE-ME-YOUR-IP!
Avatar9n 3 months ago
@9394JP731 Where are you living? In united states? United Kingdom? YOUR TIGER I CAN'T SAVE YOU FROM MY MONSTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Avatar9n 3 months ago
@9394JP731 You've written them while I was playing Black Ops and while I was killing the russians and viet-congs! I'm SO SO ANGRY!
Avatar9n 3 months ago
@Avatar9n Almost ALL your wishful Soviet "National Prided innovative Revolutionary Victory (?) Tanks" were WW2 Sov. SIGNATURED ANTI-ERGONOMIC STUFFS. the Sov. tank designers reduced their decent size & interior spaces for thicker armor, ONLY RESULTED IN DEGRADE OF GENERAL EXPECTED PERFORMANCES! Also even they mounted their biggest tank gun available HOPING TO COMPENSATE their POOR GUN CONSTRUCTION & SUBSTANDARD AMMO, still UNMATCHED the SUPERIOR KwKs from FCS, penetration, accuracy, lower ROF...
9394JP731 3 months ago
@9394JP731 You know? In last days, I've lost my interests on old battle tanks. I'm interesting about third-generation battle tanks. And if I can find a 2A46M 125 mm smoothbore gun, I will blow your fuckin' whorehouse!!!
Avatar9n 3 months ago
@9394JP731 YOU CUSSED MY MOTHER!!!! I WILL NOT FORGIVE YOU! I WILL SWEEP A LOT OF HONEY ON YOUR MUM'S FETID GARGANTUAN TWAT!!!!!!!!
Avatar9n 3 months ago
@9394JP731 I haven't thought to curse you about your mum. I never cursed against someone's mother before. But you make me crazy!
Avatar9n 3 months ago
@9394JP731 If you debate with someone later, don't try to curse first with your BRAINWASHED RASCIST ANTI-HUMAN MORON MIND and don't open the fuckin' CAPS LOCK or don't hold still the shift while you was writing belittling words to anyone. And if you wanna condescend anyone, look your shitty farting dumb ass and fuckin' cock sucking mouth. My first comment was just on good faith. But you are a savage NAZI!
Avatar9n 3 months ago
@Avatar9n I cap lock my comments IS TO POINT OUT WHAT U "SCUM & MORON" WAS WRONG & TO INSTRUCT HOW U CORRECT your FAULTS! so that U MORON WILL NOT BE SPITED IN THE FACE!.....From your first comment U REVEALED YOUR ARROGANT & UNSCRUPOUS BEHAVIOR INHERITED FROM THE UNCIVILIZED NATION........If U have not a mirror TO WATCH CAREFULLY YOUR UGLY MORON FACE, U can look into th reflection from the patch of pee fleshly pissed by the russian bitch on the ground!
9394JP731 3 months ago
@9394JP731 You fuckin' moron! You are really idiot! You are answering a comment 1 week later! I won't say anything, because I understand that you are an ignorant and I think russians fucked you up... Because russians does not like dickheads and transvestites which have a twat in a male body, like you.
Avatar9n 3 months ago
@Avatar9n Your " cock sucking mouth",it is our tradition TO COOK the 'stuffs' of various animals TO ENHANCE our sexual power TO FUCK. I BET if U MORON-SCUM dare to DONATE YOUR UGLY DEFORMED FOREVER HUMBLE TINY CHICK, I DARE TO COCK & EAT in front of U....U want me just boil your tiny humble stuff in hot-pot? cooked w/ curry sauce? cutlet w/ fried? deeply roasted? Cantonese streamed? I preferred minced your 'stuff' & spiced meat-mixing to German sauages w/ black peppers!....so as TO FUCK U mum
9394JP731 3 months ago
@Avatar9n Your UGLY DEFORMED HUMBLE 'STUFF' took me lots of time TO PICK UP & CAST AWAY all the unwanted with my sharp knife, I have to CUT your 'stuff' into halves & peel off the crusted peat skin, your 'stuff' to be rubbed with salt & lemon juice for an hour before I MINCED it!....Your bitchy busty crudely fuckable woman ADMIRED MY ENERGETIC PERFORMANCES TO HER, she closed her eyes, screamed then murmered, & OPENED HER MOUTH SO WIDE, EAGERED TO SUCK me all DOWN INTO THE DEPTH OF HER THROAT...
9394JP731 3 months ago
@9394JP731 FUCK YOUR MOTHER, FUCK YOUR SISTER, FUCK YOUR FATHER, FUCK YOUR ALL FAMILY! I THINK MINE'S BIGGER THAN YOU, BECAUSE YOU ARE A FUCKING GAY AND YOU ARE FUCKIN WITH YOUR FATHER. YOU KNOW, LAST NIGHT I FUCKED YOUR MUM! SHE WAS VERY VERY HOT! WHEN I DISBURDENING YOUR MUM'S SWEET TWAT, SHE WAS SAYING "OH, ITS VERY DELICIOUS". YOU MAKE ME CRAZY, YOU CAN'T ESCAPE ME YOU SON OF ABITCHHH! ıF YOU COME IN TURKEY, I WILL KILL YOU!
Avatar9n 3 months ago
@Avatar9n From your RAGED, FREAK & CHILDISH SAVAGE BEHAVIORS, REVEALED U "SCUM-MORON" is NOT ONLY a VERY SHALLOW SWINE, HAVE NO COMMON SENSES, INDIVIDUAL KEEN OBSERVATIONS, LACKING OF LOGICAL MINDS, BUT ALSO FREQUENT LOSE OF SELF-CONTROLS, DRUNK FART IN YOUR OWN WISHFUL MASTURBATED DAY DREAMS...NO WONDER hundreds of thousands vodka drunks AS U BOORISH SIMPLE BRAIN STUFF were BUTCHERED by the outnumbered but sophisticate tactic-minded Germans in battles even with limited salvaged improved weapons
9394JP731 3 months ago
@9394JP731 YOU ARE LAPSING YOU FUCKING FARTING ASS! A SIMPLE BRAIN? YOUR IGNORANCE IS, PLUMMETING YOU! ---- I CAN USE MY BOTH HANDS YOU BIOLOGY IGNORANT! YOU ARE AN INFANTILE MASTURBATION ADDICT. I say again, I never drink vodka before. YOU ARE SAYING ME A MORON, BUT MY IQ IS 160. I'VE ENTERED FOR AN EXAMINATION THIS SUMMER IN EGE UNIVERSITY, AND I'VE GOT 160 POINTS FROM THIS TEST. YOU CAN SEE THAT UNIVERSITY WITH YOUR INTERNET.
Avatar9n 3 months ago
@Avatar9n U PROVED your MORON-SCUM-SELF TOO INFERIOR & INDECENT to present, NOT TO MENTION ANY your spamed "National Prided Innovative Revolution Victory Tanks" or WW Soviet Mights, REVEALED WERE TOTALLY MASTURBATES ONLY TO FOOL ALL THOSE BOORISH SIMPLE BRAINS AS YOU IDIOT STUFFS!...............WHY NOT?.............Just watch your UGLY MORON FACE from the reflection of the patch of liquid on floor fleshly pissed by the bitch!!...........I LOOKED DOWN ON U IDIOT!!...:-D :-/ :-( :-O :-\ :-P :-()
9394JP731 3 months ago
@9394JP731 THIS MAKES YOU A REALLY IDIOT, MORON OR IMBECILE. YOUR IQ MUST BE IN BETWEEN 70-100. BECAUSE, YOUR GUESSES FAILED AGAIN.
Avatar9n 3 months ago
@Avatar9n Who CARES the bullshit farting POWERLESS RESPONSES of a CONDEMNED LOSER AS U STUFF!.........U are TOO INFERIOR & CHILDISH!........:-D. I have no time to play with U IDIOT & DOOMED LOSER........No more meeting again!
9394JP731 3 months ago
@9394JP731 Are you saying me that? Actually, you are right. I've lost many deserving minutes by talking to you. A man says: "Watch your steps when you have to contact with a stupid person. Because, the people may don't understand that between an idiot and a genius."
Avatar9n 3 months ago
@Avatar9n it is "I DARE TO COOK & EAT your tiny humble 'stuff' INFRONT OF U & ALL your women........before I FUCK them ALL".........Want to watch my ENERGETIC PERFORMANCES?
9394JP731 3 months ago
@9394JP731 You striked the wrong man, you son of a bitch! I'll find you and your mum! First I will fuck both of you, second, I will KILL all of your family! I'm gonna kill you son of a bitch! You couldn't think I have a gun! If you come in Turkey, send a message, and I kill you! I will fuck your mothers pussy and mount, and I will fuck your all family from their ass! You hit the wrong man, you son of a bitch! Affirm your adress, please. Someday, I'm gonna find you!
Avatar9n 3 months ago
@Avatar9n Your " Someday, I'm gonna find U", From your IRRATIONAL BEHAVIORS, U will bear my unfriendly comments in your chicken-heart, thus FREQUENTLY & EASILY TO SUFFER VARIOUS SERIOUS SICKS, that NOT ONLY CONSUMPT YOUR LIMITED LIVING ENERGY, BUT ALSO WILL SURE SHORTEN YOUR POWERLESS LIFE, YOU MORON IS DOOMED NOT LIVING FOR LONG, & WILL DIE VERY SOON IN RECENT before U POINTLESS find me elsewhere, I am behind U, just turn around your head!.Your IQ 160 IS MEANINGLESS as U still live a moron way
9394JP731 3 months ago
@9394JP731 I don't interest with the ignorants, foul mouthed idiots, like you. If not, I'm gonna be an idiot like you. So, you are dangerous for me. You won. Please, do not contact with me again.
Avatar9n 3 months ago
@Avatar9n was there any communists taught U Kid of 5 age any BAD ideas TO LABEL those fans of WW2 German panzers as Nazi or fascist? Kids at your age SHOULD NOT STAND ON THE SIDE of the traditional enemy of Turkey since the era of Sultan & Tzar, but to at hostile to your ally fighting against them in WW1! Why U Kid Favored the WW2 Soviet crudely cheap primitive expendable crap that only deserved for those over-exceeded lives of Sov. uneducated/ trained rudesby, not the Sophisticated Panther tank
9394JP731 3 months ago
@9394JP731 First, I'm not a nationalist. I don't like my country. Second, I said "I'm Turkish", because my main language is not English. I would to specify that my english is poor. Because I'm 15, and I'm not an american, or british.
Avatar9n 2 months ago
@9394JP731 But, the Atatürk (founder of Turkey) didn't agree Hitler's offer. Because the Ataturk accused the Hitler as a rascist, not a nationalist.
Avatar9n 2 months ago
@Avatar9n Explain WHY U FAVORED THE SIDE OF Stalin's Reds, The russians always want to put a hand to intervent the Turish rsgion in the Crimea & Black Sea Region & tried to ailed their fleet in & out through YourStrait, They were EVIL, BRUTAL, only looters & rapists, they looted the people of the Baltic,States. Finland & Poland. WHY DON'T U blame them? U stood by their side? hoping the Reds to win? they BLEACHED their NON-AGGRESSIVE PACT with the Japanese, Do U think they WILL TURN AGAINST U?
9394JP731 2 months ago
@9394JP731 But the big apple is: "Why are you fending the NAZIes?". I think the Soviet Union should have annexed the Turkey, too. I say again, I'm not a stalinist, I'm a marxist-leninist, which they hate the Stalin, after WWII. Also, the Stalin was not a real communist. His idea was "Communism in one country". This is not abiding with the marxism-leninism-internationalism. As well as the Stalin killed many leninist in prewar and during the war. Marxism planned for all of the Earth.
Avatar9n 2 months ago
@9394JP731 Also, the Nikita Khrushchev has accused the stalin for his despotic mistakes. The marxists-leninists motto is "Workers of the world, unite!". Hereby, thinkers of this idea do not fend the stalin. And, if you accuse the communism after the cold war, you are a capitalist, it is because you think the communism is evil. But, the communism is not belong to STALIN. The capitalists think to "We understood the communism enough.". But, no. May be about the fascism or capitalism.
Avatar9n 2 months ago
@9394JP731 Also, the United States kept neutral in the beginning of the war, too. But later, they helped France and Britain, such as weaponry. Nonetheless, with the Attack on Pearl Harbor on 7 December 1941, united states joined the allies.
Avatar9n 2 months ago
@9394JP731 You hit the wrong man, you SON OF A BITCHHHHHHHHHH!!!! I'm gonna get a AGM-158 and I insert it your mother's cute pussy! YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT MEEEEE! Please come to Turkey. I will give my adress.
Avatar9n 3 months ago
@Avatar9n Go home check your women's mouths, they started to ENJOY SUCKING, after I COOK & EAT YOUR 'STUFF' FOR ENHANCING my unlimited FUCKS. They also learned to frequently wet their cock-sucking mouths & tipped their lips with their desirable tongues!..............Thanks for your tiny chick to achieve my fucks!.........Do U have another chick or even any mini-sized bird?...I want to have deeply fried for my new fashion gameplay!.........
9394JP731 3 months ago
Comment removed
Avatar9n 3 months ago
@9394JP731 IF YOU ARE AN ADVENTUROUS, YOU SAY YOUR ADRESS!
Avatar9n 3 months ago
@9394JP731 Where are you from? United States? I will go out from my country. Because i will be a translator, so i will go many different countries for my work, and FREE! Are you a pornstar? NEVER MIND!!!! I WILL SCREW-ALL-OF-YOUR-RULING-HOUSE!!!!
Avatar9n 3 months ago
@9394JP731 FUCK YOUR IS-3!!!!! YOU CAN'T ESCAPE FROM ME!! Can you give your IP adress?
Avatar9n 3 months ago
@9394JP731 You are a dead man! I SWEAR YOU, I WILL FUCK YOUR SWEEDY MOM WHILE YOU ARE WATCHING US!!!!!
Avatar9n 3 months ago
@Avatar9n If U SCUM realized YOUR MORON-SELF NOT ANY SMART BY BIRTH Then NEVER RAISE A FIERCE DEVIL FOREVER STRONGER THAN U IN ALL ASPECTS, NOT TO MENTION any arrogant words TO TRIGGER HIS ANGERS!................Your "...shitty farting dumbass........cock sucking mouth..." made me angry.......NOW YOU MORON WAS TAUGHT A VERY SHAMEFUL LESSEN here!..................Just leave your moron-self alone & CRY OUT LOUD with your pillow!
9394JP731 3 months ago
@9394JP731 You are lapsing again, again and again. You couldn't understand that, I'm a Turkish, and I'm fifteen. That gives me a poor english language. You are an idiot, you didn't allow that.
Avatar9n 3 months ago
@Avatar9n I AM SORRY, I didn't know you are a Turk, your freak "anti-facist" & T-34 fanboy behaviors made me mistaken U the cult of Stalin's vodka dead drunk reds they were only brutal looter/ rapists WHOM I HATED, no wonder U said never drink vodka. I RESPECT ALL U TURKS, whom I met in Istampo were nice, friendly & worth-trustful people. Your nation had long term friendly relationship with Germany, & were allies in WW1against Russia your traditional enemy in domination of the Crimea & Black Sea
9394JP731 3 months ago
@Avatar9n Turkey kept neutral with Germany in WW2, & was ready to join Hitler's camp until the turnover lately 1945, Stalin claimed their intention to bleach the non-aggression pact with Turk & would intervent the Strait by sailing warships directly into Turkish dominating Black Sea. It was freak of U to cult their rats & cockroach junior leveled cheap primitive crudely fixed rugged expendable rusty coffins, these Sov. "national prided innovative tanks" were only deserved for their simple brains
9394JP731 3 months ago
@Avatar9n Your salvage nazi (ex-ally) despite outnumbered & busy in figting all fronts but were sophisticate in tactic minds, BUTCHERED these Soviet half-blinded blundering craps & their foolhardy vodka dead drunks in hundreds of thousands in battlefields like rows of sitting ducks.
9394JP731 3 months ago
what is this game ? its not wot !!
qusaisaher 3 months ago
lol red orchestra
computerguyied 3 months ago
lol one shell hit You in the sight, You should be killed man!
JosephHallenbeck 3 months ago
which game did you take it in this video?
@UBBHummel
auvar100 3 months ago
Wie heißt das spiel
scrubser100 3 months ago
Red Orchestra: Ostfront 41-45 is a great game, but not a real simulation of tank behaviour... Besides, you should mention that this is a game, not a simulator or a video demonstration... And give some credit to the game itself, please.
OsKuukkeli 4 months ago
tiger is overpowered in this game.....
killerpups17 4 months ago
The figure I have for Fl.A.K. 18 at 600 meters with a perpendicular hit is 10 centimeters penetration, meaning a projectile passes free on the other side of the plate.
IS2 turret front is rounded with an average //effective// thickness of 18 centimeters, with a maximum perpendicular thickness of 16 centimeters.
Tiger I was meat on the table. When IS2 shows up they'd have to pull back behind a PAK front.
centurion180ad 4 months ago
@centurion180ad
On paper IS-2 looks good. In reality it had poor quality armour, slow firing main gun, inaccurate optics at long range, low ammo storage capacity.
By the way the 160mm armour on turret front is just the small mantlet area. The rest of the turret front was 100mm and the armour quality. The Tiger I Kwk 36 can penetrate 100mm of GERMAN HIGH QUALITY STEEL at 30 degrees at 1,000 metres. That's more than enough to penetrate the IS-2's turret front at 1,000 metres.
LaughingGravy31 4 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 IS2 was not for antitank fighting.
Soviet steel quality was good enough, and at the thickness we are talking about it may all but be ignored. Perhaps a SMALL better chance for a nonpenetration hit to create internal spall. Outside the mantlet a large portion of the turret SIDE is behind the turret front.
Turret front effective thickness of IS2 @30 degrees is 13.9 centimeters.
centurion180ad 4 months ago
@centurion180ad
I know that IS-2 was not for anti tank fighting, but this particular debate is about IS-2 vs Tiger I tank v tank debates.
They did actually engage each other and the Tiger I gave as good as it got, if not better. This is borne out by actual history. The Tiger had vastly superior optics to the IS-2 and it's armour was stronger on the turret. Armour wise, defensively the IS-2 was only superior in the later version with the angled upper glacis.
LaughingGravy31 4 months ago
@centurion180ad
Another thing to mention. Obviously the IS-2's 122mm gun was mostly for HE but as a 'tank v tank' gun the 100mm guns as seen on the SU-100 tank destroyer was better.
Initially they wanted to arm the IS-2 with the 100mm gun but they had a shortage of factory tools and equipment at the time so the went with the easier to produce 122mm gun.
IS-2's gun just wasn't very accurate beyond 800 metres or so.
LaughingGravy31 4 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 I agree that BS3 was a better antiarmor weapon, and SU100 was designed from the ground up to be a tank killer. Most SU100 ammunition was AP, while for IS2 only half was AP.
Soviets did not bother with long range antiarmor optics or the cost of tight mechanical tolerances to take advantage of better optics, because the vast majority of tank engagements happened at 500 meters or less. Action out on the steppe would be handled with artillery and smoke.
centurion180ad 4 months ago
@centurion180ad
There are numerous examples of Tiger firing at and hitting Soviet tanks at up to 3,000 metres.
For the Tiger units on the eastern front the vast majority of their engagements took place well beyond 500 metres. It was common for engagements to take place at 1,000 to 2,000 metres.
The reason why the Tiger I tank had such a high score kill number was because they could knock out Soviet tanks long before the Soviet tanks could even hit them back, nevermind penetrate their armour.
LaughingGravy31 4 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 A 3KM line of sight is a rare beast, perhaps covering 1 small zone that an armored assaut will be through in a minuet or so. At 3KM from the front an IS2 does not have to worry. IS2 will be blasting the living Hell out of the main line of resistance, and the Tiger overwatch may go scratch at the door. A few smoke shells will cut off that problem.
centurion180ad 4 months ago
@centurion180ad Unsheltered Tigers were easier be destroyed by JS-2 in UNFAVORABLE open areas, But in defense roles, the well-trained Tiger crew were smart enough to camouflage Tigers & take cover or change positions when available when with smoke to fool the Soviet scums, they COULD ACHIEVE A ONE SHOT-KILL at the gained First shot at extra long ranges w/ superior FCS & 8 rds/ min. while the JS-2 FAILED TO TRACK or RELOAD IN TIME. Not to mention ANY ADJUSTING 3 shots with ROF 1.5-2 rds/ min.
9394JP731 4 months ago
@centurion180ad e The Sophisticated Tigers & Panthers to their well-trained crew, were "HOLY SWORDS FOR THE KNIGHTS OF HONOR" Unlike those crudely primitive expendable T-34/85s to the foolhardy, pointless-blundering to ram, boorish simple brains were only "Ready for Disused to Throwaway Dirty Napkins for whores"
9394JP731 4 months ago
@centurion180ad
Did you know that the Soviets built over 100,000 AFVs in WW2, had 10,000 supplied by Lend Lease and had 25,000 pre war types?
The Soviets used altogether some 135,000 armoured fighting vehicles during WW2 and only had 15,000 left at the end of the war.
The Soviets lost some 120,000 armoured fighting vehicles in WW2 to the Germans.
LaughingGravy31 4 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 AS U see, those cults of WW2 Soviet what so victory machines were being brain-washed, ONLY TO BELIEVE IN MASTURBATED HEROIC MYTHS according to their OWN WISHFUL THOUGHTS, FEW COULD listen & VERIFY the unfold truths with their own observations & logical minds. NO WONDER TENS OF MILLIONS OF their foolhardy blunder vodka drunkards as the "previous one-track stiff-minded simple brain stuff" WERE KILLED by cross-fires in battlefields, FEW COULD SURVIVE MORE THAN 45 days in battles.
9394JP731 4 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 "poor quality armour" .... HA HA HA... the poor quality were from GERMAN tanks in 44-45... don't make me laught.
onecheman 4 months ago
@onecheman Without the HUGE MATERIALS from the Allie's Lend Leased supplies TO RECOVER their EXTRA HEAVY TOLLS CAUSED BY THE FIERCE Germans, and TO REDEEM THEIR DESPERATE BROKEN STRENGTH & MORALE, the sub-civilized stuffs COULD ONLY KNEE DOWN TO SUCK hitler's cock & taste his shit........
9394JP731 4 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 Only a 122mm HE blow up a turret of pz4... in Tiger etc it BREAK hist armor, making fisures. Then a little of AP and done.
onecheman 4 months ago
@onecheman Your logic "the bigger the Soviet gun caliber is= the more powerful the Soviet gun is"? Even if your bitchy busty crudely fuckable sleep-mate HAD OVERWHELMING PAIRS OF MELON SIZED JUICY 'BIG SQUEEZE' as well as a BULKY ASS, it won't make her DESERVE ANY BETTER SEXY than the well proportioned 'bowls' of the French Sophie...What the Soviets designed & made were AS BULKY AS WATERMELONS BUT ONLY CRUDELY CHEAP PRIMITIVE CRUSTED RUGGED EXPENDABLE AWKWARD, ONLY OCCASIONAL DECENT..their ducks
9394JP731 4 months ago
@9394JP731 What SHIT are you talking about ? =) Your text looks like a soup, make me ill see these chaos of letters +_+
onecheman 4 months ago
@onecheman
""Only a 122mm HE blow up a turret of pz4... in Tiger etc it BREAK hist armor, making fisures.""
Um that's providing that the IS-2 can actually HIT any Tiger tank when it's not at a close range.
Tiger I can easily accurately hit and penetrate IS-2 over 1,000 metres.
Tigers would be penetrating the IS-2 armour long before the IS-2 can even score an accurate hit. Why else do you think the Tiger I vs IS-2 encountered mostly ended in favour of the Tiger Is? THEY HAD BETTER GUNS!!
LaughingGravy31 4 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 U are right, the German 88 mm KwK36 & 75mm KwK42 often overrided the Sov. 122mm D-25T ( with best available ammo both sides WW2))! From PENETRATION TABLE of "Battlefield Rus. com". A: For 88mm Pzgr40 of KwK36; B: For 75mm Pzgr40 of KwK42; C: For 122mm BR-471B. The armor penetration in mm, ALL MEASURED @30 deg. TO VERTICAL, @2000m- A: 110mm, B: 106mm, C: 100mm; @1500m- A: 123mm, B: 127mm, C: 110mm; @1000m- A: 138mm, B: 149mm, C: 120mm; @500m- A: 156mm, B: 174mm, C: 125mm ONLY...
9394JP731 4 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 German KwKs OVERRIDED Sov. D-25T CONTINUED 4).: The JS-2 loader had to hold the 55lb separated ammo & chase the choking smoked gun-breech on own foot, while the PzV & VI offered logical planned spaces to crew, they could rapidly load the 31-34lb entire ammo to achieve constant ROF 6-8 rd/ min. The PzV & VI also enjoyed superior FCS with only ONE-SHOT KILL accuracy & SHOT & SMOOTH RECOILING rapid firing to minimize any unwanted disturbances from dust & smoke inside as the Sov..
9394JP731 4 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 KwK OVERRIDE CONTINUED 5). The 2nd Generation panzers had one ventilating fan above driver's-deck & the other on turret roof w/ ducts to extract smoke from gun breech to outside directly. while the Soviet big tank guns ejected extra large & dense choking smoke spreading around the cramped interior first before extracted through the raised ventilating doom on turret roof, served only to block the visions of cupola. As the JS's firing & loading dust & smoke spreaded violently.
9394JP731 4 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 Kwk OVERRIDED Sov. big gun CONTINUED 6a). Despite in artillery roles the D-25T had 55lb HE for superior single blow, while the HE for 75 & 88mm gun seemed only 15- 20 lb. The 55lb served better in attacking fortified strong holds/ bunkers or the concentration of enemy materials & personnels even under shelters w/ a deeply striking single blow. While the PzV & VI could deal with separated fast moving targets eg. AFVs w/ overwhelming nos. of carried HE rounds more effectively...
9394JP731 4 months ago
@LaughingGravy31
And IS-2 has the best armour of all WW2 ;) Not abble to Tiger to penetrate if the IS2 doesn't shot his weaknesses
onecheman 4 months ago
@onecheman What the quality of what so thick armor of JS-2M s were ONLY AS CRISPY AS the PIG IRON SEWAGE PIPES only waiting to be smashed by the mighty Tigers to honey comb them at will to those shattered "volcanic easter eggs",.......Time to say good-bye to your beloved pussy.....dust to dust, ash to ash!...... :-(
9394JP731 4 months ago
@9394JP731
The Soviets make up a lot of crap about the King Tiger. They say it had poor armour and fell apart at the weld seems when hit. This is nonsense and there is no evidence for this at all. The western allies faced the King Tiger too and do not claim the nonsesne that the Soviets claim.
In fact there are plenty of pictures of King Tigers with hits on the front (even on the weld seems) and they tank did not fall apart and the armour wasn't penetrated.
LaughingGravy31 4 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 DON'T BOTHER what the Stalin's HABITUAL MASTURBATORY FARTINGS, Winston Churchill pointed out that they WERE NEVER ANY TRUSTFUL HUMANS NOR ANY RELIABLE ALLY, From their lies of the thousands reports of claimed destruction of Tigers & Ferdinands in Kursk revealed to be Pz4 & SPGs, Moreover the Highest Official Claims of mass murdering of 2200 poles in Kaiyt Forest by what so Nazis in WW2 were also TURNED DOWN & 'CONFESTED THE EVILS DONE BY NYVD' by their OWN President in 1991.
9394JP731 4 months ago
@9394JP731
Yes Soviet propaganda and lies are complete bullshite.They claimed 70 Tigers were destroyed at Prokhorovka on 12th July 1943 even though the Germans only had just 43 Tigers in total in that whole sector and just ONE Tiger was lost around Prokhorovka on 12th July 1943.
The Soviets suffered such a heavy amount of losses at Kursk that they exaggerated the numbers of the attacking German forces so that they could justify losing so many tanks and men.
Typical Communist propaganda.
LaughingGravy31 4 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 A little bird from "onecheman" told me that he has the pleasure to share with us his joy of his fashioned-caterings with "eggs & chick", What's in "Today's Special" is designed " Russki Sparkling Volcanic Easter Eggs Ice-Cream with Roasted Chicken Meat Hot-Dog in Tomato Paste", I regret his "Broshevik style vodka-drunk tastes" is forever too much for my "said-Nazi" stomach, I am afraid to "throw up" very unpleasantly. Do U want to taste some his " FROM RUSSIA WITH #*@....."? :-D
9394JP731 4 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 The Soviet claimed their what so destroyed 41 Tigers in Kozen with loss of only 8 JS-1& 2 were discovered by historians as only lies.
9394JP731 4 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 For further detailed informations of what the Soviets said bad the King Tigers, please go to "RussianBattlefield- Was the Tiger II Really King" to verify.......... Regards!!
9394JP731 4 months ago
@9394JP731
Yes that website Russian Battlefield is full of nonsense with no verification to back up many of their claims.
According to the silly Soviet propaganda the King Tiger more or less fell apart in pieces when hit and that the weld seams split open everywhere. Of course they shown no photo to prove this. It's Soviet nonsense, nothing more.
The British and the Americans (who also faced the King Tiger) do NOT claim what the Soviets claim. The Brits and Yanks don't claim they fell apart.
LaughingGravy31 4 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 It is a habit of Soviets to belittle the legacy & military mights of other nations so as to make a big discripencies between them for glorifying the heros, great leaderships related to the pride of their regime. they despited the more sophisticated M4 Shermans as 'cookers' facing Panthers, only their T34/85 deserved what so an equivalent .....their half-blinded cumbersome JS-2 & SU-152 were what so "Tiger Killers",...masturbated destroyed 85% total Nazi strength themselves etc.
9394JP731 4 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 I am only debating the merits of Soviet vs. Wehrmacht //vehicles// and the logistics necessarily arising from their production methods, NOT the crew quality, doctrine or any of the particular historic outcomes.
Let's try this experiment.
Let’s say the Germans & Soviets swap all their heavy tanks. Who has come off the better in that swap?
centurion180ad 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@onecheman
""And IS-2 has the best armour of all WW2 ""
Are you serious? Soviet steel was poor quality all through the war. Even late war German steel was superior.
Best armour of WW2 was King Tiger and Jadgtiger's front armour. Jagdtiger's front armour was 250mm. King Tigers was 150mm to 180mm.
Even Tiger Is could knock out IS-2 frontally over 1,000 metres....and they DID.King Tiger could knock out IS-2 at 2,000 metres.
IS-2 can't even HIT a tank beyond 800m. Poor optics, inaccurate gun.
LaughingGravy31 4 months ago
@onecheman The Mighty Tigers WERE MORE THAN POWERFUL ENOUGH TO FUCK your beloved IS-2 pussy Russian "Hopzilla" from mouth to anal farting hole THROUGHLY!! As their SUPERIOR Pzgr40 of KwK36 OFTEN OVERRIDED the UNHANDY BR-471B only cumbersome but inaccurate bulky D-25T gun up to 2000m OUT OF your half-blinded IS-2's SIGHT.
9394JP731 4 months ago
@9394JP731
In January 1945 American paratroopers did some test firing on an abandoned King Tiger during the Battle Of The Bulge.
At less than 100 metres they fired both bazooka shots and panzerfaust shots at the front of the King Tiger. The glacis plate was not penetrated. There were hits on the weld seams but they did not split. There are pictures that prove this. The armour was still strong in 1944/45. Panzerfaust is supposed to be able to penetrate 200mm of armour yet failed to penetrate.
LaughingGravy31 4 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 The Quality of armor of Tigers were the best in the world, but it was say the hardeness of the King Tiger's armor was low- medium (to be verified). maybe the drop of quality was caused by the lacking of manganese & other essential compositions since the fall of 1944. No other nations in WW2 than the Germans adopted the face-harden armor, good endurances & lighter in total weight, but took longer man-materials to achieve. The USA & USSR preferred the mass productive cast-type
9394JP731 4 months ago
@9394JP731
Yes. The quality of armour in the King Tiger and Jagdtiger was of lower quality in 1944/45. However their armour thickness was so much (150mm and 180mm in the King Tiger and 250mm in the Jagdtiger)that it really didn't matter. The seams certainly didn't split.
Tiger Is produced from 1942 to 1944 had the best quality steel of any tank made during WW2. It's armour quality was extremely high so even though it was slab sided and vertical it was still stronger than sloped Soviet steel.
LaughingGravy31 4 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 More King Tigers were abandoned due to mechanical breakdowns, lacking of fuel & air-raids other than being destroyed by enemy. I loved the King Tigers, but they were rather fuel-consuming & lower in power to wt. ratio for expected mobilities. Moreover they were too oversized to conceal or transport by trains. 10 years later the Sov. 35 ton T-55 could afford similar firepower, adequate protection but better mobility & mass productive with lower maintaining costs.
9394JP731 4 months ago
@9394JP731
It's not "my" Is-2, I'm not a comunist you fucking nazi scum ;). And come to Ro1 to say something IS2, it fucks a Tiger from A to Z.
So, go to speak about real tiger and reall IS-2 to a forum, fascist.
onecheman 4 months ago
@onecheman But your POINTLESS FARTING REVEALED U MORON NOTHING BETTER than those HABITUAL MASTURBATING VODKA DEAD DRUNK Reds, ALSO UNSCRUPOUROUSLY DRUNK FARTING ALL BULLSHITS AS those scums, The only differences are: U MORON NOT ONLY HAD A MORE BULKY CRUSTED RUGGED FLAT STUB SWINE PATTERN VODKA VOMITIVE (has strong odors of the stuffs vomited) STICKY PASTY RED NOSE, & A EVEN WORSE BOORISH SIMPLE BRAIN WITH VERY POOR LOGICAL MINDS & COMMON SENSES.......WHY NOT???....... :-D :-P :-)
9394JP731 4 months ago
@onecheman
Can you please give me specific battles and actual engagement where the IS-2 "fucks a Tiger from A to Z"?
Why don't you starts citing actual examples?
I have already cited the battles around Tinokva, Ternopol, Tirgu Fromus, Malinava and Karnievo where the Tiger I most definitely overcame IS-2s and left them burning wrecks on the battlefield.
And please grow up. BOTH tanks were a danger to the other, but the IS-2 had a weakness in range and rate of fire.
LaughingGravy31 4 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 In the Battle for Targul Frumos on May2,1944, two bridgates of Tigers & Panthers successfully decoyed swarms of Soviet tanks in German favored terrains, destroyed more than 350 JS-2 & T-34/85 tanks with loses ratio of 1:20. ONE MORE TYPICAL EXAMPLE OF MIGHTY ' Tigers & Panthers NOTABLY FUCKED THE SOVIET NATIONAL PRIDED "VICTORY MACHINES" the JS & T-34/85' AGAIN. The destroyed Sov. tanks littered with lots honey-combs & burst like 'sparkling volcanic ice-creamed easter eggs"
9394JP731 4 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 By the way, in the said website U can look into "Photo" as there are also many detailed sections isometric interior drawings & dimensional drawings showing the layout of armor thickness of various sorts of Soviet AFVs. Besides, there are PENETRATION TABLES of Soviet, German & American tank guns as well as tables of types of Soviet ammo, devices (eg. Radios & FCS).
9394JP731 4 months ago
@onecheman WERE I ANY your said "Nazi", I NOT ONLY WILL BREAK INTO YOUR SHIT MOUTH TO PLUG OFF ALL YOUR GOLD TEETH just like enforcing to open the oysters to to seize pearls, I WILL ALSO GUT & TEAR APART "YOUR BUG-MESSED ROTTEN EGGS & TINY DEPLETED FOREVER HUMBLE CHICK" to test IF YOUR DEFORMED STUFFS ANY ABLE TO FUCK A BITCH from A to Z, if not so, then I WILL THROW YOUR "BLOODY DUMP OF UGLY-DISGUSTING STUFFS" TO FEED THE SWINES FOR FUN! I have pleasure ENJOY WATCHING them taking a free lunch
9394JP731 4 months ago
@onecheman A little bird tell me that it would be very impressive if I BBQ your "BLOODY DUMP OF UGLY-DISGUSTING BUG-MESSED ROTTEN BALLS & TINY DEPLETED FOREVER HUMBLE CHICK" in a micro-wave oven, YOUR DISGUSTING STUFFS WILL SWELL & BURST VIOLENTLY just like the "Russki SPARKLING VOLCANIC EASTER EGG ICE-CREAM WITH ROASTED HOT-DOG IN TOMATO PASTE".........CHEERS!!!!!......You have the right to choose "SHALLOW FIRED" for your "HOT-DOG in BLACK-PEPPER SAUCE or even CURLY & MINCED ".....WHY NOT??
9394JP731 4 months ago
@onecheman Please don't make us laugh loudly in your moron face! WERE your JS-2 ANY ABLE TO your what so "fucks a Tiger from A to Z", YOUR 1500 kg Rus HOPZILLA (=giant wild swine) CAN CLIMB UP TO THE TREE TOP 500 ft RISE UP FROM GROUND TO WATCH A STAR..as every thing "FROM RUSSIA WITH #@%^*" IS ILLOGICAL, CUMBERSOME, ANTI-ERGONOMIC, UNRELIABLE, EXAGGERATED MASTURBATING, CRUDELY-BULKY, PRIMITIVE, CRUSTED RUGGED, SHORT-SIGHTED, STIFF & NARROW-MINDED from U stuff to nuclear submarines- K141 KURSK
9394JP731 4 months ago
@onecheman Your big gunned JS-2 "what so fucks any Tiger"...... Even U MORON have an EXAGGERATED EVER SWELLING WC-SIZED BIG HEAD, IT DOESN'T MEAN U HAVE A SMARTER BRAIN, STILL MORE THAN 100% STUPID;...YOUR PROTRUDED SWINE PATTERN RUGGED RED NOSE DOESN'T LET U ANY BETTER SENSES;.....YOUR CRUSTED BULKY BODY & PUFFY BIG BELLY ONLY MAKE U AS CUMBERSOME AS A WATER-MELON & ONLY A HUMAN-SANDBAG;.......YOUR HABITUAL MASTURBATING CHICK ONLY A DISGRACEFUL FOREVER HUMBLE PISS-LEAKED......:-D......WHY NOT??
9394JP731 4 months ago
@onecheman A kid of 12 shot your HABITUAL FAVORED 1000kg "russian hopzilla (=giant swine)", REVEALED THE MYTH ANY YOUR BELIEVED "SIZE DOES MATTER" IS NOTHING BUT ONLY TO FOOL THOSE BOORISH SIMPLE BRAINED "FROM RUXXyA WITH^%*= CRUSTED RUGGED RED NOSED FARTING VODKA DEAD DRUNKARDS" as U stuff..........No wonder tens of thousands of Your BROSHEVIK FOOLHARDY BLUNDERING BOORISH SIMPLE BRAINS WERE HONEY COMBED TO CRUMBLY MINCE-GUTTED BLOODY PASTE in VOLCANIC Soviet tanks by SUPERIOR German panzers!
9394JP731 4 months ago
""Tiger I was meat on the table. When IS2 shows up they'd have to pull back behind a PAK front.""
Not true at all. Tiger I defeated IS-2 at Tinovka, at Ternopol, at Targul Fromus, at Malinava at Karnievo etc.
Tiger I was pretty safe from IS-2 at 1,000 metres plus because the IS-2 couldn't even hit them. Or at least if a IS-2 managed to hit a Tiger I at 1,000 metres plus it was a rarity and a lucky shot. In contrast Tiger I was accurate at over 2,000 metres.
Very Few Tiger Is were lost to IS-2.
LaughingGravy31 4 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 How many Tiger I were lost in these actions that you mention? Very few Tiger I were lost to IS2 probably because they were smart enough to not be standing on the square marked X that the IS2s were going to move through, and the Soviets didn't use IS2 in an anti-tank roll anyway. Tiger I had a tall wide cross section, and IS2 would have little trouble hitting 1 in the open. During a defensive action, Tiger would hide!
centurion180ad 4 months ago
@centurion180ad
Tinovka. Tigers lost =0.
Ternopol. Tigers lost =0.
Malinava. Tigers lost = 0
Targul Fromus. Tigers lost = 0
Karnievo. Tigers lost = 0.
The most famous Tiger I vs IS-2 encounter was the Malinava/Krivani engagement on 22nd July 1944. 2 Tiger Is (Carius and Kerscher) of battalion 502 knocked out 17 IS-2s and 5 T-34/85s. This was actually more impressive than Wittmann at Villers Bocage but Carius and Kerscher were not Waffen SS so were not as 'celebrated'.
LaughingGravy31 4 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 Excuse me for having to ask, but who do you think won World War Two by over running an enemy capital city and killing or capturing the entire political leadership of its enemy?
centurion180ad 4 months ago
@centurion180ad
Um WW2 was won by the combined might of the Soviets, the USA, The British and their Commonwealth and a host of other countries.
The Soviets or Americans or British were not 'better' than the Germans. There were just MORE of them. The Soviets would have been toast if the Germans were not fighting on two fronts or if they were not supplied aid by Lend Lease.
The German's had a 4 to 1 kill ratio over Soviet soldiers and armour in WW2 and that's a FACT.
LaughingGravy31 4 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 T34-85 was best tank of 2WW... it's the same that germans will not fighted with USA/ENGLAND.
And with a little help of IS-2... say bye bye to jagpanzer, kingtiger, etc...
onecheman 4 months ago
@onecheman
""T34-85 was best tank of 2WW..""
Panther was better than T34/85. Better gun, better armour, quite agile.
If there were not some 25,000 T-34/85s produced it wouldn't have had the same effect.
It was the NUMBERS which made the T-34/85 effective, not it's quality.
It had poor optics and a disappointing gun. Even the Panzer IV's 75mm L/48 gun was superior to the T-34/85's 85mm gun.
T-34 in all types relied on numbers.
LaughingGravy31 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@LaughingGravy31 Panther was better than T34/85. Better gun, better armour, quite agile.
It had poor optics and a disappointing gun. Even the Panzer IV's 75mm L/48 gun was superior to the T-34/85's 85mm gun.
Yes we all know the german 7,5mm was great enought but, for what you want it if all hits in a T34-85 bounces ? Armor from 85 was pretty good and more with his angles.
The armour from panther was a shit. and Agile?! HA HA HA all time breaking engine, etc etc etc. Dont make me laugh
onecheman 4 months ago
@onecheman
The Panther was quite agile for it's size. It had good ground pressure. Only the early ausf D version in 1943 had many mechanical problems. By the time the late Ausf A and then the Ausf G versions come out these problems were gone and the Panther ended up being the best all round tank of WW2.
It was FAR SUPERIOR to the T-34/85.
Even the American Sherman 76mm HVSS outperformed the T-34/85 in Korea.
You do know that over 45,000 T-34s were destroyed in WW2 don't you?
LaughingGravy31 4 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 Problems with transmition, etc. Ask german tankers, what happens in the mornings of winter ;) All tanks stucked and T34 coming for OWN they.
From for example 5 Tigers, only 2 get the battle front, the other 3 break in the way, the same like Panthers, transmition, engine, etc.
And ask the ingeniers, pass such a tank of this over a bridge was a real head feeder.
Then... don't come to me with "Pz V was agile..."
onecheman 4 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 The WW2 Soviets were nothing but excellent farting scums, Their masturbated 122mm D-25T gun was only an inaccurate gun-howitzer w/o very poor FCS, low Rate OF Fire (ROF) & muzzle velocity. From "Battlefield rus" penetration table, it's piecing power was inferior to that of Tiger & Panther (best ammo available in WW2,122mm BR-471B vs 88 or 75mm Pzgr40) from 500-2000m @30 deg. to vertical.They adopted bigger tank guns ONLY TO COMPENSATE POORER GUN CONSTRUCTION & SUBSTANDARD AMMO
9394JP731 4 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 Despite the WW2 Soviets yielded some 55000 all sorts of T-34/85 & more than 13000 KV, JS heavy tanks & ISU heavy assault guns to swarm their enemy with overwhelming numbers LIKE PESTS as rats & cockroaches. MORE THAN 45000 T-34s, 5200 KV/ JS heavy tanks & 2300 heavy assault guns were destroyed despite their overwhelming numbers (source- "World Tank Museum" & "Stalin's Heavy Tanks, 1939-45"). The "T-34/85= best tank or "JS-2=victory tank" were ONLY TO FOOL BOORISH SIMPLE BRAINS!
9394JP731 4 months ago
@onecheman
These are the FACTS.
Tiger I = a 10 to 1 kill ratio.
T-34 = not even a 1-1 kill ratio. The T-34 is in the MINUS category. Over 45,000 T-34s were destroyed in WW2 and they didn't destroy 45,000 German tanks in response. LOL.
LaughingGravy31 4 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 KwK OVERRIDED Sov. big guns CONTINUED 6b).: .But IN TERMS OF (HE) FIRED PER MINUTE, the HE fired by JS-2's 55lb shells=55 lb X 1.5= 82.5 lb/ min,; For Panther's 15 lb HE =15 X 8 =120 lb/ min.; For Tiger's 20 lb HE = 20 X 8 = 160 lb/ min.......NOTHING INFERIOR FOR the German rapid firing KwKs in (Extensive Shallower other than Concentrated Depth) Artillery role, The KwK could fired overwhelming nos.of HE rds at stationery target TO COMPENSATE the lesser HE blasting per round
9394JP731 4 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 Since the German panzers had superior optics for periscopes & FCS, also better throat-microphone radios to alert other collaborating panzers WITHVERY CLEAR INSTRUCTIONS, they FORMED A WIDER NETWORK of well coordinated battle formation, thus could discover & gain chances to fire first. While the primitively fixed T-34/85 & JS-2 even up-graded w/ what so CRUDELY DECENT COPY-CAT 3man turret, multi-vision cupola & radios, FAILED TO ORGANIZE COORDINATING WORKS W/ obscured orders.
9394JP731 4 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 Despite the JS-2M had "bigger" gun & thick sloped frontal armor, the obsolete Tiger only to set the panzer @ 1-2 or 10-11 O-clock to deflect the BR shells, In return, they could conceal the panzer with nets, leaved branches behind houses to match the surroundings & to wait for shooting at the nearest to right angles TO MINIMIZE THE THICKNESS of the glascis of the Soviet tanks approaching up or down slopes. The JS-2M driver's direct peeping slot was only shielded by shallow strip
9394JP731 4 months ago
@9394JP731 ...but if TIGER I turns at a 30 degree angle to IS2 to increase its glacis angle, it also exposes its long body side armor that increases its exposed surface area of an already high & wide target cross section, thus giving the Soviet gunner a better and overall more vulnerable target to shoot at.
centurion180ad 4 months ago
@centurion180ad If the Tiger was to combat with JS-2M, a). In the defensive role, it set at angular position to maximize deflecting the BR-471B, then adopted the terrain to hide itself among the houses/ trees or even decorated with camouflaged net & leaved branches to fool the JS. b). In offensive, it quickly flanked the JS-2 under the cover of smoke, as the SLOW-RESPONDING JS-2 COULD NOT spin it 's big gun or aim to track fast moving target IN TIME, it ALSO TILTED VIOLENTLY as firing to sides
9394JP731 4 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 From "WW2 Soviet TanK Units, 1939-1945" The AVERAGE lost ratio of the OUTNUMBERED German panzer (ALL Fronts) VS Sov. tanks (ONE Front ONLY) in WW2 was 1:4.5.
9394JP731 4 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 Your anti-Soviet spin is too much for my stomach to handle.
The prewar doctrine of Marshal Mikhail Nikolayevich Tukhachevsky was eventually realized, and it then put the Nazis to the sword. Leningrad held out all the way from 1941, and Moscow repulsed the Nazis that same year. Stalingrad was the following year with only the first trickle of lend lease. Then the stunning victory at Kursk with admittedly Lend Lease, but very lean allied air campaign.
centurion180ad 4 months ago
@centurion180ad
What is your damn problem? I am not 'anti' or 'pro' anything. I'm BRITISH. My country fought AGAINST Germany in WW2. My grandfather was in the Royal Air Force. My other grandfather was a British 'Red Devil' Paratrooper.
I just present facts, and here they are.
1. The Tiger I tank defeated IS-2 on a number of occasions. It wasn't 'dead meat'. Please inform yourself of real life Tiger v IS-2 encounters.
2. The Soviets lost some 120,000 AFVs in WW2, including 50,000 T-34s.
LaughingGravy31 4 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 I just presented facts. Crew quality was not initially part of my argument.
Nazi Germany had AXIS allies, masses of slave labor, and plunder resources from ALL of continental Europe. AXIS power including Imperial Japan handed the Nazi state, all of Europe on a platter.
SOVIETS were the only power that eventually ended a Theater War by occupying-by-combat an enemy capital and destroyed enough of the enemy means of resistance on the ground to COMPELL surrender.
centurion180ad 3 months ago
@centurion180ad
Nazi Germany's Axis allies and slave labour doesn't even begin to compare to the combined might and manpower of the Soviet Union, USA, British Commonwealth and all the other participants involved in the struggle against Hitler.
They are not even remotely comparable.
LaughingGravy31 3 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 That is not what Hitler thought, that is not what his General Staff thought, that is not what American leadership thought, that is not what Commonwealth leadership thought, and that is not what STAVKA though.
Pretty much the only person thinking that, is you.
By January 1942 the allies were losing the war hands down.
centurion180ad 3 months ago
@centurion180ad
Oh come off it. It's historical consensus that Hitler's biggest mistake in attacking the Soviet Union was to not beat Britain first. Had Hitler fully concentrated on defeating Britain before attacking the Soviet Union then its likely the Soviet Union would have fallen.
With Britain defeated then the Axis would have controlled all of Europe, the Mediterranean, North Africa, Middle East and eastern Atlantic. Nations like Turkey and Spain would likely have joined the Axis.
LaughingGravy31 3 months ago
If Britain falls in 1941 then there is no more war in North Africa and the Mediterranean. With Turkey joining the Axis then that is another area of advance into the Soviet Union. All those German and Italian troops previously in North Africa could have joined with Turkey and attacked along the south Black Sea coast into Soviet Georgia. It's not far from the Turkish border to Tbilisi.
Turkey was waiting to see how the war panned out before getting involved. If Britain fell = Turkey joins Axis.
LaughingGravy31 3 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 The MORE DESTRUCTIONS & BIGGER BLOODY BATTLES Hitler IMPOSED ONTO Stalin's side, the MORE BURDENS WERE THROWN TO THE Vodka drunkards from the West shoulders, Thus Stalin's scums WERE HEAVILY TOLLED MORE THAN 35M (millions), NOT 26M, including nearly 12M personnels military dead (ONE Front), GB ONLY lost LESS THAN 48000 ALL theatres. NOT TO MENTION the scums ANY CAUSED the Reich's what so >85% total loses, TOTALLY SOVIET SIGNATURE HABITUAL MASTURBATORY FARTINGS!!.......WHY NOT??
9394JP731 3 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 It is also consensus that occupation of the English islands by the Wehrmacht was an impossibility, hence a total capitulation was impossible.
It would have required an entirely different Nazi redistribution of naval units from the outset to strangle England to win Battle of the Atlantic, and even if they were strangled America would have fought their way through at the expense of Lead Lease to releive England.
Lenningrad held out for 900 days, so could England.
centurion180ad 3 months ago
@centurion180ad
If Germany didn't have over 1 million men stationed in western Europe from Norway down to the Mediterranean at the time Barbarossa took place then the Soviets would have been beaten.
The Germans had over 400,000 troops in Norway alone guarding against the British.
If it was just Germany vs the Soviet Union in 1941 with no western front then the Soviets would have been defeated by 1942.
Germany was superior to Soviet Union. A 4 to 1 kill ratio says it all.
LaughingGravy31 4 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 IF, if, //if//, **if**, if..... two can play that game all day and all night.
What if Nazis didn't have millions of slave labor? What if Nazis didn't have all the plundered factories and natural resources from occupied western & central Europe? What if the Nazis didn't have over a million troops in infantry divisions from Italy, Rumania, Spain, France, Low Countries, Ukraine?
What if Nazis didn have plunder artillery of occupied Europe?
centurion180ad 3 months ago
@centurion180ad
Tinovka. Tigers lost =0. Ternopol. Tigers lost =0. Malinava. Tigers lost = 0 Targul Fromus. Tigers lost = 0 Karnievo. Tigers lost = 0.
The most famous Tiger I vs IS-2 encounter was the Malinava/Krivani engagement on 22nd July 1944. 2 Tiger Is (Carius and Kerscher) of battalion 502 knocked out 17 IS-2s and 5 T-34/85s. This was actually more impressive than Wittmann at Villers Bocage but Carius and Kerscher were not Waffen SS so were not as 'celebrated'.
LaughingGravy31 4 months ago
@centurion180ad
""During a defensive action, Tiger would hide!""
Why would it? The IS-2 isn't likely to hit any tank beyond 800 metres. The Tiger could sit off at 1,000 m plus and let it's powerful and accurate 88mm kwk 36 score some hits on the IS-2 turret or lower front glacis.
LaughingGravy31 4 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 This isn't a discussion of facts and technical performance, this is a political discussion with you, and you obviously have an ax to grind.
Any hit from a D25T on the front of the very high & wide profile of Tiger-I has a near certainty of blowing right through, causing a catastrophic fire, and killing all 5 crew. Any hit on IS2 by Tiger-I has but a small probability of obtaining a penetration. Tiger-I is going to be badly outnumbered, and they did lose the war..
centurion180ad 4 months ago
@centurion180ad
I have no idea what you are talking about.
I am debating IS-2 vs Tiger I. I don't care about politics or ideologies.
You made so many erroneous claims about IS-2 vs Tiger I.
You were obviously ignorant about the number of times the two tanks actually engaged on the battlefield and the Tiger I was not outclassed by the IS-2. Far from it. The Tiger I actually performed well against the IS-2 in a number of famous engagements. IS-2 looked superior on paper. It wasn't in REALITY.
LaughingGravy31 4 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 I have had good data on both guns & armor for a very long time, and I don't put my nose too deep in memoirs written by heros about other dead heros. I challenge your reality argument.
Wehrmacht were forced between a rock and a hard place, where crew quality would be a deciding factor if desparity in equipment or situation was not too one sided. At > 1,200 meters in a defensive hide Tiger could get off well aimed rapid fire, but cutting the range was too dangerous.
centurion180ad 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@LaughingGravy31 I have had good data on both guns & armor for a very long time, and I don't put my nose too deep in memoirs written by heroes about other dead heroes. I challenge your reality argument.
Wehrmacht were forced between a rock and a hard place, where crew quality would be a deciding factor if disparity in equipment or situation was not too one sided. At > 1,200 meters in a defensive hide Tiger could get off well aimed rapid fire, but cutting the range was too dangerous.
centurion180ad 4 months ago
@centurion180ad
""and you obviously have an ax to grind.""
Why would I have an axe to grind? I am BRITISH. My country was fighting AGAINST Germany in WW2.
Look, the IS-2 had poor quality armour, was slow firing, had an inaccurate gun at long range, had a low ammo storage capacity, had a cramped turret with no turret basket , couldn't hit an enemy tank over 800 metres.
As a breakthrough tank against soft targets and bunkers it was good. In tank v tank fighting vs Tigers it was not so good.
LaughingGravy31 4 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 U are a fair English not being blinded by WW2 hostile emotion w/ Germans! The American L.L. USSR including 501,660 various advanced vehicles & 22800 tanks (more than German highest yearly production only 9161 panzers in 1944) some 7500 Cobra-types attackers........etc. thus redeemed the desperate dying-broken strength & morale of USSR. The American President refused to listen to Churchill's warning of Stalin NEVER ANY TRUSTFUL,the redeemed turned against them in the Korean War
9394JP731 4 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 Read the book "WW2 Russian tanks 1939-1945, Stalin's Armored Might" by Tim Beam & Will Frowler, U will find many short-comings of Sov. tanks. it helps me a lot in writing comments in YouTube!
9394JP731 4 months ago
@9394JP731
Yes the Soviet tanks had many short comings. Not the least was their poor workmanship, poor armour quality, inferior optics and less than impressive guns.The Soviet's philosophy was that their tanks were not going to last long in action anyway so they didn't bother to make them with excellence. They knew they were likely going to be destroyed quickly so they concentrated more on making as many as possible.For the Soviets it quantity over quality.
Panther = far superior to T-34/85.
LaughingGravy31 4 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 German KwKs OVERRIDED the Sov. 122mm D-25T CONTINUED 2).: The Sov. D-25T had only lower Muzzle Velocity (MV) 780m/s, But A & B 're 930-1120m/s, to achieve straight trajectory & could hit accurately >1500m, C couldn't match expected target even aimed.
9394JP731 4 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 German KwK OVERRIDED Sov. D-25T CONTINUED 3).: The D-25T COULD NOT SUSTAIN a Rate Of Fire of 2 rd/ min. because of loading 55lb separated ammo in cramped anti-ergonomic area, both the gunner & loader's seat (@ RHS) could not turn alongside the turret, he had to pick up unhandy ammo from boxes under floor mat littering w/ ejected red hot cases, he also had to dispose cases @ pot lower LHS hull. I BET the exhausted loader only achieve 1-1.5 rd/ min. at the starting 3 minute..
9394JP731 4 months ago
@9394JP731 Soviet propellant charges were not in cases, so there was no hot brass on the floor of IS2.
Most of the IS2 shells were stored upright in the aft of the turret in the overhang up at chest level, and a few upright at the back of the crew compartment. Light weight propellant charges in bags, were on the floor along the sides of the compartment.
centurion180ad 4 months ago
@centurion180ad Please verify your informations of JS-2 ammo. It was from the "Wiki"- a). "JS-2 tank": The drawing shows the RIMMED CASE of propellant charge, NOT AS WHAT U SAID or any combustible bags as in naval guns. but RESEMBLE TO the ammo of Hunting Tiger type. b). "122mm gun M193I/ 1937 (A-19)": It stated "...separate ammo...propellant....IN CASES...". Thus there were ejected red hot cases littered the tank floor, & the loader at LHS was TO DISPOSE THROUGH THE POT @ RHS of lower hull
9394JP731 4 months ago
@9394JP731 IS2m main armament is a slightly modified vehicle version of an artillery piece that uses sectional ammunition. Sectional ammunition does not use a brass case; it uses its artillery propellant charge.
The cases in that vehicle that you are thinking off were combustible waxpaper-board, not metal.
centurion180ad 3 months ago
@centurion180ad From documentaries, both the A-19 & ML-20 had EJECTED METAL (not sure any brass) CASES, NOT COMBUSTIBLE propellant bags or card board cases! THUS THERE WERE BIG POSSIBILITY FOR RED HOT EJECTED CASES LITTERED ROLLING on the floor matt covering the ammo boxes inside JS-2 tanks, hindered normal loadings to gun breeches. The ejecting pot at LHS of lower hull (between the !st & 2nd boggies) were FREAK for the loader at RHS, like shallowing piss & shit but to vomit vodka & bread :-D
9394JP731 3 months ago
@9394JP731 I checked it. You are correct, and I stand corrected. The A-19 had cased propellant.
That said, cased propellant is relitively light weight stowed down on the floor at the sides of the fighting compartment, and the heavy 25 kilogram shells were stowed up at chest level stacked upright at the back of the turret.
It seems to me that before an action any hard to reach boxes would have the cases removed, and stacked up near the loader's feet to be fired off FIRST.
centurion180ad 3 months ago
@centurion180ad Even one shot failed to penetrate te JS-2M, the Tie COULD STILL FIRE OVERWHELMING NOS. of shots to honey comb the POOR-RESPONDING JS as flanking its unfavorable shooting sides, I BET the CUMBERSOME CRAP FAILED TO SPIN it's 122mmX5m gun at trough terrains as the KV-2 did! 2 Tigers under Otto Carius of GD destroyed 17 JS-2 & T-34/85 in 20 minutes. A single Panther of 2nd SS Arno Giesen not only protected a bridge, but also butchered 14 JS-2 & T-34/85 at the outskirt of Vienna!
9394JP731 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@9394JP731 I was only debating the merits of Soviet vs. Wehrmacht //vehicles// and the logistics necessarily arising from their production methods, NOT the crew quality, doctrine or any of the particular historic outcomes.
Let's try this experiment.
Let’s say the Germans & Soviets swap all their heavy tanks. Who has come off the better in that swap?
centurion180ad 3 months ago