Bird With A Broken Wing=God Mocking? George Bryson

[willpower242]

You can't exegete the Bible at ALL!

[WCOFTheology]

@willpower242 ROFL!!!  And you can??? LOL

[willpower242]

Stupid......you say they don't want salvation......but they would if they knew what it meant ....you have the same problem of an evil God when you believe the false religion of Calvinism.

[WCOFTheology]

@willpower242 How do I have a problem of an evil God?

[ScottDaMoose]

I love your dog example;

I once had to give my dog medication, She rejected it 100% of the time. I had to insert the medicine in her throat and massage it down. She never would have accepted it any other way, even though it would cure her problem.

It seems that the person that wrote this book does not understand the difference between physical inability and moral inability.

It seems He wrote a book based on a partial understanding of what Total Depravity is

[apollos6640]

@ronathanedwards "Offering something to someone who will not take it is not contradicting anything."

No kidding. WHAT are you offering!? WHAT 'gospel'!? That's ALL I'm asking, WHAT 'gospel' are you offering to a DEAD sinner who's been FATED for the Lake of Fire since "BEFORE having done anything either good or bad"?

WHAT 'good news' are you offering the REBPROBATED sinner that he's not willing to take?

[ronathanedwards]

@apollos6640 The value is intrinsic. It's good news. Just because people WILLINGLY refuse it, doesn't make the offer any less genuine. Are you denying God's foreknowledge? Doesn't God already know the people that will not accept His Gospel? So, by your logic, God's offer is only genuine unless He doesn't KNOW who will or will not accept it, otherwise it is not "good news".

In reality, no man knows who is "chosen", therefore the offer is genuinely given and is Good news to those who accept it.

[WCOFTheology]

@ronathanedwards Hey brother, I believe apollos6640 holds to molinism. 

[ronathanedwards]

@WCOFTheology well, why not, once you start down the slippery slope of bad theology, it eventually ends up in complete heresy.

[apollos6640]

@Risen1s "wheres the contradiction?"

What 'gospel' is being offered to the nonelect that they have no desire for?

[apollos6640]

@WCOF ""This is Total Depravity, God is commanding sinners to do something they absolutely have no desire to do...the unelect have no desire for the gospel that is being offered...they are bound in Sin..."

I'm being serius here, I'm not mocking you, but what "gospel" is being offered to the non-elect, when you likewise teach that JESUS NEVER died for them to begin with?

CONTRADICTION!

Now do you see why I REJECT the garbage of Reformed Theology?

[Risen1s]

@apollos6640 wheres the contradiction

[WCOFTheology]

@apollos6640 Do you not see, it does not matter if the sins of the nonelect were laid on Christ or not, b/c the nonelect are guilty before God for what they OUGHT to do, even if their sins were atoned for they still would not do what they OUGHT b/c they hate God. And besides that they OUGHT to worship God even if He sends them to hell b/c He is WORTHY. The nonelect OUGHT to have faith in Christ even if they were not included in the atonement b/c of His infinite VALUE.

[apollos6640]

@WCOFTheology "even if their sins were atoned for they still would not do what they OUGHT b/c they hate God."

So would you. You would hate God no less than them. The only difference between you & them, is God bestowing His Involuntary Favoritism on you, "why you?" For the good pleasure of His Will... never the less... you never answered my question;

WHAT 'gospel that is being offered' to the nonelect, do they have no desire for?

Such a simple question, debunks evrything you believe in.

[WCOFTheology]

@apollos6640 It is the same Gospel, Christ Died for sinners, all have sinned, ye that are burdened and heavy laden come to Christ and He will give you rest, salvation is by faith in Christ alone. I don't see what the problem is, there is REAL salvation for everyone that will come to Christ the problem is NO one WILL come not even the elect. If God left it up to man to come, then NO one would ever come, no matter how hard the Holy Spirit begs in conviction.

[apollos6640]

@WCOFTheology "It is the same Gospel, Christ Died for sinners... the problem is NO one WILL come not even the elect."

You mean "a few Sinners" ... so Christ died for sinners... so what? Everyones DEAD. How is that a 'gospel' for anyone, ELECT or UNELECT?

[CBALLEN]

@apollos6640 "You would hate God no less than them. The only difference between you & them, is God bestowing His Involuntary Favoritism on you, "why you?" For the good pleasure of His Will... never the less"... "but because you were one of Gods preselected ones, He FORCED His GRACE on you INVOLUNTARILY & against your Will, by RIPPING out your DEAD heart & giving you a new one..

It's sad how Apollyon asks questions then spits out the answers in scripture like poison.

[ronathanedwards]

@apollos6640 There is no "contradiction" do you know what that word MEANS? Offering something to someone who will not take it is not contradicting anything. The "good news" is for the ones to whom it is meant. Your assertion is self refuting also. In REALITY, the gospel is NOT good news for those who in reality reject it till their death. The "theoretical" chance does not make the Gospel any different. The news is good no matter what, it is intrinsically good no matter if it is received or not.

[apollos6640]

you said, "This is Total Depravity, God is commanding sinners to do something they absolutely have no desire to do...the unelect have no desire for the gospel that is being offered...they are bound in Sin..."

You were ALSO bound in sin,HATED GOD & had NO DESIRE for Him... but because you were one of Gods preselected ones, He FORCED His GRACE on you INVOLUNTARILY & against your Will, by RIPPING out your DEAD heart & giving you a new one...

Call it for what it is "Involuntary Grace"

[WCOFTheology]

@apollos6640 Why is it you see nothing be "FORCE and RIPPING", when All I see is loving gracious turning of the sinner to Himself? You might need to check you own heart.

[Passiflora101]

"Arminians like to equate all five-point Calvinism with hyper-Calvinism (as Calvary-Chapel author George Bryson does in his horrible little book, "The Five Points of Calvinism: Weighed and Found Wanting" [Costa Mesa: Word for Today, 1996]). That approach lacks integrity and only serves to confuse people." ~ Phil Johnson, A Primer on Hyper-Calvinism (online article).

There ya go. Y'all could use some WD-40 on that squeakin' door. :)

(Think fingernails on a chalkboard!)

[InTheSpirit12]

Amen

[HumbleFaith777]

Great job! Straw man arguments are all the Arminians an Pelagians have. It is far easier to brush aside the Doctrines of Sovereign Grace by misrepresenting them then actually refuting them biblically and logically. God bless!

[WCOFTheology]

@HumbleFaith777 Thank you, but I know this was a little long winded for you though, LOL

How do you think Ethel performed? She is a star now! LOL

[HumbleFaith777]

@WCOFTheology "How do you think Ethel performed? She is a star now! LOL"

Uh, yes she is BUT I did sense that she had rather dogmatic tendencies. At any rate, she was certainly doggedly determined to get the chicken and avoid the odious biscuit. LOL I might just send her a copy of ACTING FOR CANINES WHO WANT TO BE STARS written by Lassie Comehome IF she promises NOT to dog-ear any pages in it LOL :) God bless!

[OneFaithMinistries]

@HumbleFaith777 I would say it is more Pelagians than Arminians.  Arminius, Wesley, Zinzendorf, and other non-Calvinists would agree with Total Depravity. It is after this point that we depart. I am glad that we do agree on the essentials. God Bless!

[HumbleFaith777]

@OneFaithMinistries "non-Calvinists would agree with Total Depravity"

Brother if you truly understood the ramifications of Total Depravity, you would biblically and logically be led to accept the other 4 points of Calvinism. God bless you!

[OneFaithMinistries]

@HumbleFaith777 We as Calvinists need understand that true Arminians do believe the same Total Depravity that we do. After reading a few things Jacob Arminius and John Wesley wrote on the subject, it was almost word-for-word what John Calvin or John Knox would write. What makes us depart is Election. Conditional Election is misunderstood by those who do not hold it. Many times we misrepresent it like they sometimes do with Unconditional Election. We agree on the essentials. God Bless.

[OneFaithMinistries]

I have a PDF that a Presbyterian minister put out. It is called "James Arminius, Hero or Heretic?" It shows that while we don't agree with him on many things, he was within orthodoxy. It is actually quite interesting to see a Presbyterian show this. If you would like to red this PDF, let me know by messaging me. God Bless!

[HumbleFaith777]

@OneFaithMinistries "We as Calvinists need understand that true Arminians do believe the same Total Depravity that we do.."

IF the TRULY believed in total depravity AKA human inability, they would have to believe also in the necessity of efficacious grace (for example) and IF they believed THAT they would have to accept the obvious fact that God was NOT granting this efficacious grace to all and sundry. BUT, they would have to reason, if God does NOT efficaciously draw ALL then... etc... etc...

[OneFaithMinistries]

@HumbleFaith777 Like I said, my eyes were opened when I saw What Arminius, Wesley, and others actually taught. If you would like to see it in Arminius' own words, I can get you that PDF. Message me. God Bless.