the broken watch (the 2nd law vs. evolution) part 1

[divud123]

Do you always get this many dislikes?

[spark300c]

@divud123 no but this controversial topics. really most of viewers seem never debate about mechanics. Plus people do not like paradoxes will try solve it or say gain knowledge was in error or false or incomplete.

[fresheyeball]

The second law ALSO does not state that entropy decreases always. It states that it ALMOST always decreases. Therefore all these problems are solved with large tracts of time, which we have evidence for.

[spark300c]

@fresheyeball the second law states that in system which is the universe that amount of entropy stays the same or increases. natural nature of system is to head to disorderliness. in order for there be order increase entropy must increase some else. car, computer softer ware and many other systems experience changes it usually change to disorderliness. it take energy to repair these things and energy is dissipated as heat so that that amount of entropy stays the same.

[fresheyeball]

@spark300c No it doesn't. The second law of thermodynamics is an expression of the tendency that over time, differences in temperature, pressure, and chemical potential equilibrate in an isolated physical system.

It says nothing about the universe as a system. It says nothing about earth (which is not an isolated system). And it says TENDS TO.

[St00sh13]

"Most mutations are bad mutations and beneficial mutations are rare."

Hmm, interesting, given that:

Most organisms die before they can reproduce. Animals that live to reproduce are rare. *

*(compared to the number that are become an organism (i.e. fertilised)).

That would fit with evolution then.

[spark300c]

@St00sh13 it a noise to signal ratio. not all bad mutation get selected out . if most of the population had slightly bad mutations they all reproduce at same amount then in for trouble. sensitivity of natural selection depends on fertility rates ,population size and genome size. selective pressure is like having a budget. budget can not pay for all expensive then things deteriorate. to evolve to more advance form or adapt a larger budget or pressure is needed. it about the numbers. 

[St00sh13]

A bar of metal is just a very, very inefficient engine, if you are comparing it to an engine. Otherwise it's just a bar of metal.

[fawkUtube]

And when did mcdonalds happy meals include webcams?

[infinity730]

Not sure if trolling or really stupid. -_-

[spark300c]

@infinity730 trolling is define as some one that goes to one blog, new letter, or video and try to spam it and make irreverent comments. I can not be a troll of my own video. how ever your comment has not substance. if think i am stupid then by all mean prove that whale fertility rate are enough to drive whale evolution with out extinction. the change whales experience require high death rates and may be a reason why they can be found in fossil record.

[infinity730]

@spark300c Deleting my comments now?

[spark300c]

@infinity730 no. I thought you deleted you own comment. I read comment removed by user which I assume which was you. any way I got it in my in box. You did not gave out any numbers.

[joshopsho]

loved U in Napolean Dynamite

[heavenlyheathen]

I honestly don't understand your argument, new information is added, no living system is a closed system and since the laws of thermodynamics only apply to closed systems(which you admit to knowing before hand) it does not effect genetics. An example is bacteria which produce faster than any other creature on this planet adapt and improve at incredible rates, if you were right shouldn't they decay to nothingness quickly?

[spark300c]

@heavenlyheathen I treat as open system and part 2 deals will cost. well one thing I learn after that each creature is different . Bacteria have small genomes and live in the billions and trillions . There fore natural selection is efficient enough to prevent them from decaying at least at noticeable rate.The human race on the other hand had much larger genome. We have low fertility rate.

[themsfightinwoids]

Damn you're painful. Like listening to a drunk. You're SO over your head with this topic.

[spark300c]

@themsfightinwoids I don't think so. I got C in thermodynamics and it was college level course.

[themsfightinwoids]

You're proud of a C from a college? That only proves that your understanding of the fundamentals was barely passable even in a non-university.

[spark300c]

@themsfightinwoids Yea prod of C when I knew people who took the same course and failed it. In fact it was my knowledge of 2nd law that save me. Since you have no clue how hard thermo is you most not be in college or know any engineering majors. If it was a high school course I would got an A.

[TheFortressMaximus]

Perhaps though, instead of trying to grasp concepts like thermodynamics, which are clearly above your head just think of it this way. The laws of thermodynamics have nothing to do with chaos, or disorder as used in everyday speech -- so therefore applying the laws in those terms is both inappropriate and irrelevant to any scientific theory.

[TheFortressMaximus]

2nd law of Thermodynamics deals chiefly the motion of particles from a hot system to a cold system. Or the loss of available energy to heat. It really has nothing to do with decay, or evolution, or the creation of the Universe since the system we live in is expanding and therefore the entropy required to reach equilibrium is also expanding.

[spark300c]

Rust happens because of 2nd law of Thermodynamics. spontaneous changes information on computer cause bit rot. Any machine after wile will brake down. Many text books use a dirty room example. They say you used energy to clean up your room and went into heat there for there was no decrease in entropy. "The laws of thermodynamics have nothing to do with chaos, or disorder as used in everyday speech " Are saying that the text books are dishonest.

[TheFortressMaximus]

No, the text book is not dishonest, your just failing to recognize that the "dirty room" is just a simplified analogy. All laws, which carry less weight than theories, usually can be expressed in simple math. However, for a person like you, who may or may not need to deal with the formulas directly, the text book ops for a simple analogy rather than a detailed explanation. There have been several studies already performed where you have molecular structures forming in increasing entropy.

[terrymorse]

@spark300c Rust happens because of a chemical reaction between iron and oxygen, NOT because of the Second Law. The Second Law defines the directional flow of heat and how much of that heat can be converted to work, that's all. Things falling apart, NOT the Second Law. Messy room, NOT the Second Law. Those are analogies.

Evolution has NOTHING to do with the Second Law, unless you consider that all life takes in energy to create chemical bonds and/or do work. That's trivial.

[spark300c]

@terrymorse not chemical can not happen if does in increase entropy. "unless you consider that all life takes in energy to create chemical bonds and/or do work. That's trivial" Do not forget death is need to drive evolution and price that is paid counter act the disorder that mutations create as long as fit survived. Plus Dna has information that can be calculated to have entropic value.

[terrymorse]

@spark300c I agree that death of organisms is required to permit evolution -- the old must make space for the new. Yes, DNA has information that some may consider entropic, but that's not a thermodynamic description of entropy. Thermodynamic entropy is very specific and has only to do with heat, energy, and work.

[spark300c]

anther thing the expanding Universe does not prevent heat death in fact it could make it worst. Energy density has to be consider. The temperature of universe is very low. A bigger universe means more space for energy to spread out.

[TheFortressMaximus]

Okaaayyyy...yes some scientists believe the Universe will eventually experience "heat death", but the Universe itself is still relatively young, so this is not something you or I will have to worry about.

[kandtell]

Natural Selection is not about selecting mutations.

Natural Selection is about selecting between existing genes within the gene pool.for the same spot on the DNA sequence of the species in question (multiple existing genes competing for the same location are called "alleles").

Dramatic changes are possible without any mutations at all.

It is even theoretically possible for new species to form without mutations.

[spark300c]

thank you for your input. Your first to comment on Natural Selection. When I first post this vid I thought most of the commenters would comment on my Argument on Natural Selection but most commenters did not.

[mage1over137]

Look you obviously don't understand the 2 law of thermodynamics. Order and disorder are vague ideas in physics but are used unfortunately to explain entropy. Entropy is the log of the number of states, thus increase in entropy increase in the number states. Furthermore all processes proposed in abiogenesis and evolution all adhere to the second law of thermodynamics. Before you give your opinion you should learn the subject and study it further without bias.

[spark300c]

you obliviously did not watch it all. You have bais because you comment on part one instead of part 2. My point that natural section is too inefficient to prevent decay. Decay is measured as lost of fitness.That point is base natural selection not being able select against very slight deleterious mutations. muller ratchet anther thing that causes decay in asexual reproduction.entropy you give delta S=K*ln(omega) . The same equation can be used for genetic information

[whamii]

oh mini kent hoving, your stupidity makes me happy, I guess that by your definition of the 2nd law of thermodynamics reproduction and basically life are impossible.

[PinkProgram]

Have you ever heard of the sun?

[spark300c]

yes but natural sections is to inefficient to prevent decay. You clear did not watch part 2. In that part I analyzed energy sources.

[PinkProgram]

That is why organisms die o.O you clearly haven't analyzed anything. Thermodynamics is not violated since the earth is not a closed system.

[spark300c]

don't give that out dated augment. I given the reason for decay. I never said about thermodynamics about being violated. I just saying that thermodynamics deals which efficiency and decay. For natural selection to have efficiency of 100% you need infant population which is imposable. Any repair of any type requires energy. in fact to breed any good require Iout million and I need select out 99 percent And I will still have near neutral deleterious mutations.

[PinkProgram]

You have to be satire...

[PinkProgram]

Study how biology really works.

[Robinsonero]

Are you retarded?

[spark300c]

this is the pointless post I ever got. No scientific content what so ever.

[Robinsonero]

Okay, don't answer the question.

[spark300c]

no you just will not like my answer.

[PinkProgram]

That is the point. Your argument is not scientifically valid.

[bark33p]

the second law states that in a closed system, the total amount of usable energy decreases. This means that more energy has to be added from outside in order for activity continue. the sun is continually providing energy to the earth. the second law is not violated by evolution.

[spark300c]

I saying that entropy is not conserved quantify. Also the 2nd law deals with efficiency. In video I make the clam that natural selection is too inefficient to prevent decay which is measured in fitness loss. I did not say that evolution theory violates the 2nd law but the 2nd law explains why populations are decaying . here is peer review goodie (Higgns, K. and M. Lynch. 2001 Metapopulation extinction caused by mutation accumulation. PNAS 98: 2928-2933)

[NathanWubs]

A other copy of doctor dino, with doctor dino's arguments.

Which are flawed. Get up to date. Do not believe just one set of video's, get the facts.

[spark300c]

Doctor dino? Never heard of him. I made this video after doing my own research.

Now tell me what is flawed.

do you think entropy is conserved quantity?

It saids in my physics book on page 544

College Physics Second Edition that entropy is NOT a conserved quantity. Plus I go over mechanisms of failure. Hitchhiking is official term for Deleterious mutations that come with a benfitalical mutations. Also if you want me to I can cited peer review papers on mutational load.

[spark300c]

Wait a minute! Did you even watch it all the way through?

[Digimaul]

is this a parody? please tell me this is a parody...

[spark300c]

It was not meant to be a parody

[gouranga2007]

Pity.