Titanic facts (description for more info)

[ATITANIC1992]

This is a lie. Titanic did not have so significant list to portside. Sorry to say it, but it seems like you try to be a theory creator wannabe.

I can only dissociate myself from this

[silenceofthehills]

@ATITANIC1992

No, this is what I thought at the time. In retrospect, the list to port was factored in at about 9-10 degrees to port about over half way in the sinking. It did get worse accordind to several survivors, but then it even out back to about 8-10 degrees before teh plunge. On the outside it looks severe, but 10 degrees isn't too noticable by working with it. In reality, the ship broke lose as before and THEN took on an roll or shift over to port. This one is quite wrong.

[ATITANIC1992]

@silenceofthehills I respect your theory, i just dont agree with it. I'm also kinda conservative, it takes a lot of conviction to convince me.

Right now i believe in the book called "The last log of the Titanic" since i think it is most realistic, most considered and has the best arguments and a lot of facts. Also it harmonisies most what i believe what happened that fateful night

[silenceofthehills]

@ATITANIC1992

This isn't the right video to watch. Not much a theory but a collection of testimony given light. Its not as if i'm going up against anyone in a deeper technical level on the break up, though I show a few around to show its not an impossibility. If you want you may learn this by watching the updated videos. This was more on the shallowest of angle that was trying to remove too many veriables and add too much human superstition upon the testimony.

[motorguzzi100]

@ATITANIC1992 Read titanic the ship that never sank by author Robin Gardiner  and his new book on same subject assurance fraud never read the books

[crisrea12345]

this is completely boring without music... no offense just sharing my own opinion ;)

[silenceofthehills]

@crisrea12345

I can agree, I was going to put music in the new ones I guess, but then you have to worry about just getting agreements by tricking them with great music or presentation. So I though not to add music in the end, though I wouldn't know what to put in the end anyhow.

[jetpoweredgriffin]

@silence

I admire your patience in attempting communication with a fellow creature that says things like."your an idiot"or "you...is being ignorant".

O,well,if we're ever suddenly called on to do a press conference and be expected to communicate with even more over-educated under-intelligent life forms-

at least you'll be ready.

You've surely done your homework.

How do these people even type at all?

That was more serious film,study&description than any 1000 videos here.

Keep up the good work

[silenceofthehills]

@jetpoweredgriffin

Thank you. Iv'e done more with the new video. It should be up at least at the end of the month.

[YAIGpwnsass]

I figured something out. people say "ramming" the iceberg would have been better, less "damage". but when you think about it, the shutter of 25mph collsion, would have cause rivots to pop all over capsizing the ship within an hour.

[NatralisticPantheist]

Yes.. many mention the stern going back to an even keel, witnesses at he uptruned collapsible don't but they mention sounds and explosions and then the stern going up... so yes, it probably hapenned like in your video, they didn't notice because they were looking at the ship more from the front. 5 starts, faved... btw who was the Abelseth family?

[silenceofthehills]

They were a poorer class on Titanic. They are the ones that were near the ending on the last starboard boat davit. They are what people used to think it went to a higher angle.

Essentially, if we think of it as intact as they did with everyone infront of them, then we could think that it's gearing over further to it's list before going higher in the air. Any ship would do such a thing.

Thanks for the rating.

[silenceofthehills]

They never got on a boat, but held onto the davit. Because the lighter angle, they can stand well until they have this occur to them, to which everyone would be thrown as it gear further over to here and finally, listing up to a high angle to which all would slide.

[NatralisticPantheist]

Did they testified during the inquiry? I guess not all the family survived... do you have a link to their testimony or where should i look? thanks =p

[NatralisticPantheist]

Starting at 9:19 that might have triggered as you note what Joughin experienced, this is what he said during the inquiry: "I kept out of the crush as much as I possibly could, and I followed down - followed down getting towards the well of the deck, and just as I got down towards the well she gave a great list over to port" and threw everybody in a bunch except myself. I did not see anybody else besides myself out of the bunch."..

[silenceofthehills]

Yes, this is also based upon him noting that the lights were on till after this too. If you remember, Collins stated that the lights went out as the water met amidship on Titanic.

The other woman about the "cut with a knife" testimony also states that they went out after she had broken and as the bow was about under.

[NatralisticPantheist]

Who was the woman who talked about the cut with a knife? I've always wanted to know that...

[silenceofthehills]

Found her name finally. It's Emily Ryerson.

[NatralisticPantheist]

ok thanks...

[NatralisticPantheist]

so he propably didn't notice the rightening. About the angle, Lightoller said he thought the second funnel, front to back, was covered by water and the other two were out, we could argue this points a higher angle as depicted in some paitings by ken marschall before breaking, however... two aft funnels out, and the second one under water is what happens around 9:38 in the animation while the breaking Lightoller didn't notice was taking place.

[silenceofthehills]

Yeah, your right. I posted my comment too soon, sorry.

[silenceofthehills]

Basically, it would have broken by then and reconnecting at the moment. Funnel two is said to fall by at least two people so far. The woman, who I forgot the name of, who said it broke as if cut with a knife and Theyer.

I don't think 30 is even possible either as I did my stuff by analyzing both what people say and other's standability. The tests and other fit quite right, so I don't go for too low or high and angle.

[NatralisticPantheist]

Yes... I'm now thinking it was something around 20 degrees not 11 like in the "new breakup theory"... It didn't crush at the bottom because it was breaking sideways.

[NatralisticPantheist]

I've been reading some testimonies from the inquiries and many mention the breakup, I found nine, including: Arthur J. Bright, George Moore, George F. Crowe, Frank Osman, Alfred Olliver, Mrs. J. Stuart White, Edward Brown, George Symons and Thomas Ranger.

John Collins, assistant cook, 1st class, He ended in the upturned collapsible, he mentions "She exploded once in the water, and her stern end was up out of the water; and with the explosion out of the water it blew her stern up." cont...

[silenceofthehills]

Actually, Roger stated against Titanic breaking to cause the plunge. However, it's more probable that Titanic could have gone to 17-20+ because the wreckage and stress finite or bend momentum tests only show a low angle, but can't tell you anything between 10-20 as the correct answer.

Testimony, which all this analysis came from is to print the rest, and that illusion does not exist for verious reasons, such as it being the opposite. The angle is the issue, while it still may tower above you.

[silenceofthehills]

On testimony alone I have seen the fact that it would that they can stand while still a nicely fine angle.

Godfrey said not almost perpendicular, he said "The bow was down and the stern was up, but not perpendicular, though considerable".

This means an angle of the above can work as it's greatly angled. It is angled enough for such statements, so it doen't need to be a sky scraper that no one may walk on, being against other testimony.

10-15 is limiting and 30 is too high.

[silenceofthehills]

Escuse me, he recently shown stating this on an Encyclapedia Titanica article by another, "Why a low break angle?".

[silenceofthehills]

Lastly, in the end, the list was so bad that B could float off, to which would lead Lightoller to head over to a mostly dry starboard side. B is as aft as the first funnel, so an 8-16 degree list is very much possible.

[mariopatrick123]

very intersting.

[silenceofthehills]

Actually I was correct. I looked again and found the diagram in the video is correct. I put up annotations on the video to show that it is indeed the 4th boiler room.

[Milner62]

It could but I just dont belive he bottom up break though cause theres just no way the way how History channel put that out as happening. Thinking about it and looking at my diagrams they look pretty simmilar only thing different is probably the way we figured out the angle. I used the angle of the whole ship based off the horizontal axis where you only used the hull above the water using the double bottom as the line to figure the degree.

[silenceofthehills]

Actually, it's not the bottem up break. It's a mere twist. Nothing I found realy goes heavily against it. I could agree with Roger's though, but with the added list influencing a minor port lunge. In the end it has to become bigger and twist off as Joughin hopped the starboard rail and barely budged.

Some media state him at the end, but accounts show not. This is due to films not having the list.

Mine come from B&H alone, actually. I think I need to remake the vid. Like your method though.

[Milner62]

My method was only done cause I have no video programs but with the laptop im waiting for in the mail I might be able to now. B&H I dont know I woud have to run the program myself because I learned the hard way to test things yourself and see for yourself cause some times people leave things out and dont know it.

[silenceofthehills]

Yes, the B&H results actually do come from leaving out, as you said, the superstructure water. I beleive the water coming from the keel, not caused by a burg, may rise quickly to the top, due to pressure being applied to a bottem entry. Stated as fast too.

B&H is a manner of tonnage/extra vs applied water weight (per square inch). I'm not certain as to what the rest will do, but i'm trying to keep it as walkable as possible.

B&H's results are pretty accurate speeds, looking at the chart.

[Milner62]

I started on their site with adjusting their paint created deck plans I got the boat deck done as well as the main engine room completled but never finished them to submit it to them to update those outdated ones from the mid 90`s.

[Milner62]

Not to mention you didnt take the wreck`s condition into account. The hull plates are splayed outwards at the aft end of the bow if she broke from twisting they wouldnt be bulged with the upper deck beingpulled straight down. Not to mention joughin was drunk that night so he wouldnt be a good witness to the angles cause when your drunk everything is "weird" to your eyes.

[silenceofthehills]

And you would know this because?

No, he saw others get thrown into clumps...and he just saw that too...very ignorant.

[Milner62]

You my foolish friend is being ignorant. The wreck if you look at it shows the upper decks pressed DOWN towards the double BOTTOM of the ship and both sides of the hullplates are blown OUTWARD making a canopy. IF it happened as you shown both sides would NOT look like this they would have one side pulled inward and the other side pulled out such as starboard pulled in and port pulled out IF the ship twisted apart as you CLAIM which is NOT what happened.

[silenceofthehills]

If it twisted apart non of this would happen. It's clean sideways and a releasing of plates via weak rivots. I don't claim it;s how it happened, however, it did lunge over to port regardless.

Again, on a pivot, one side will rise.

The backwards bend then does just as the special said.

Don't think 17-20 is even anywhere near close to 30-45.

[Milner62]

I know 17 - 20 isnt nea 30-45, 15 - 17 isnt much difference in apperance. But the point is though the rivets didnt fail at the break there is evidence at the stern that the plates TORE. Rivet holes were torn open as rivets held. So either way the aft end of the bow wouldnt look like it does if it broke that way. The list I say happened after the break like your showing as water transmitted aft on scotland road. There was a list to port but not that sever till after the break as she rolled

[silenceofthehills]

Oh yes, now you make it more clear. Thank you. Yes I knew about this, but remember there is a HUGE section missing to begin with. It is not the true break.

A HUGE chunk was cut out remember. Ballard's book (167-168) and other diagrams show how big it is. You cannot base anything around it....

[Milner62]

No you cant base anything off it but the thing is though they found that huge missing section and the said the double bottom was in great shape didnt mention the double bottom was twisted is what I am pointing to. Unless they found out something new cause I haven been to the forums on that site in a year or so been busy with more important things.

[silenceofthehills]

No no, not this way. I didn't show this yet. The rivots fail and is like a clip of staples. Think of one staple as a double bottem plate.

Sorry for a lack of clearity.

[silenceofthehills]

What I mean is shearing a whole half of the clip clean off.

[Milner62]

I know what your saying. Thing is though Titanic wouldnt have done that. The plates bent before the rivets would shear off. We see this in some parts of the Titanic wreck but we also see in the bow the crumpled hull plates under the forward expansion joint bend as well as under the well deck were the rivets are still in place. But the double bottom rivets were made out of cast iron if I remember correcty and the sides were iron hammered in my hydraulic presses.

[silenceofthehills]

Could agree with this also. I may not have made it clear on the vid, but I'm only showing 1 method & I think with the comments it's a bad idea.

About joughin, I'm confused as how can he venture outwards with it pitch black? No stars or anything within the maze, if you mean sleeping quarters.

Also, it wouldn't be 17 yet, though it's not too hard to walk. I mean Titanic slowly began to buckle starting at an angle, then grows intense enough for stage 2, while plunging to B&H at the same time.

[Milner62]

There was stars it was a moonless starlit night. But he left after the lights went out but I am not 00% sure where he was. One source said his quarters and a few other sources said in the kitchen.

[silenceofthehills]

Of course, but I mean he'd be inside the ship. Not one bit of light trinkling in.

Looking at the places, it's quite a maze to exit in darkness. Think looking at inquiries will help? Tell me if he had any external testimony from the american or british. Havn't heard of any, but just to be sure.

[Milner62]

I am not sure the place where I saw this which has me going out on a limb on beliving this (his other account of a man atop #4 funnel durning sinking was proven) was in Pellgrino`s book Ghosts of Titanic. I know from the Titani group that most dont belive him but I tend to keep an open mind with books cause all have errors.

[silenceofthehills]

Yes, I remember someone talking about someone up on a stack at one time or another. He climbed in a panic through the kitchen vent I suppose, or to see what was going on. Light had to be there to see him that high up, I'd think.

One guy said he had to run from what he said was the "aft most funnel", which fell to port. Not really a contradiction, but who knows if he left in time. The night was grim.

Yes, I remember a kids book that shown Gracie getting sucked up to the vent instead.

[Milner62]

interesting. The story I heard was that he was a crewmember (supposedly survived is how it was implyed) that he was working in the turbine room during the sinking and he said he was going to go up top to see how things look and he went up the funnel to have alook. I mean might be just a writers flare put on it but it is hard to belive just anything with how people put twists to stuff in books

[Milner62]

Well waste of 10 mins of my time, but I viewed it just like you asked and what about testimony from one survivor about passengers about to get sucked down the top of #2 funnel? Atleast 2 people from the same lifeboat claimed to have seen that. I didnt see you model that. Not to mention didnt even include the fact that Gracie said he grabbed the railing over the gym and was pulled under after the wave washed over the bridge and when he reached the surface Titanic was gone.

[silenceofthehills]

PG 59 said the officer quarters.

[Milner62]

Your an idiot, the officer quarters goes all the way back to the grand staircase and you said he said he was NEAR the officer quarters which means he could be standing next to the staircase or next to the gym and he would STILL be NEAR the officer quarters.

[Milner62]

Ok I went and got the book out and theres conflicting information cause the page I was refering to is way further in the book than the one you pointed out. But he said he was 12 feet aft of he forward expansion joint which would have put him about at the grandstaircase wall from just looking at my plans and not measuring to get the acurat distance.

[silenceofthehills]

tell me who this passenger is and I will look him up for you.

[Milner62]

lol Funny, Finally got the time to view this and the 17.13* angle diagram is funny. I have the same angle but the ship is really at 15* though. Reasion for that isI moved my center of graivty and pivot point between the #3 and #4 funnels that one is pivoting between the #2 and #3 funnel which those twocompartments were already flooding and yours is showing bone dry lol.

[Milner62]

lol Not to mention those drawings were done from a passenger on the Carpthia that listened to Thayer`s story. I mean look the forepeak of the bow is breaking the surface. How can you or any idiot put any accuracy to this when A. it wasnt drawn by the survivor and B. its showing something that is impossible since the whole bow was flooded no way for it to lift back to the surface in a break up.

[Milner62]

BR 4 never had any damage done to the double bottom. Even if there was theres no proof since no one on the inside of the ship would know since Titanic was a double bottomed ship. Damage to the bottom wouldnt have caused flooding inside just flooding in the ballast tanks which was the seperated tanks in the double bottom. The water coming through the floor plates in BR4 was caused by Hogging where gaps formed during the stresses of sinking.

[silenceofthehills]

I could agree with that, but it would not change much.

[Milner62]

eiher way though it would change and if you made that kind of ERROR it makes me wonder what other errors and shortcuts you took. Frankly the diagrams I created from my own profile blueprint I did shows completly different than yours and is WAY more believeable. Joughin left his quarters AFTER the lights went out if that was the case he could have never made it to the stern with the ship at that kind of angle with that kind of list BEFORE the lights went out.

[silenceofthehills]

Yes, mine are not that great, I know. It was made with titanica encyclipedia's diagram for reference image. I think one part is messed up.

Now what do you mean with Joughin? Honestly, I'm confused due to having barely a difference with 15's problems with him. You saying he left in the dark? If so, it's impossible.

You saying that i'm noting this or what, i'm confused. I say nothing yet actually.

[Milner62]

I didnt say you said it I said you implied this by your diagrams in this video. I have seen reports of joughin left his quarters after the lights went out and you are showing a major list to port and decks so angled no one could really move aft on them with the lights still on. BTW i sent a messge with a link to two diagrams I created since I cant post links in here.

[silenceofthehills]

Oh, ok. Can you show me the reports themself too?

[Milner62]

I would have to find them, I got alot of digital and hard copies and I havent really been dealing with Titanic lately so I would have to find it but I can send you copies or where the reports are at if their in a book of mine.

[silenceofthehills]

ok.

[silenceofthehills]

This was only a note. It doesn't matter that much. I wish I could just take it out.

[silenceofthehills]

No, it's not between the 2nd and 3rd. I know by looking.

Two, I merely made a mistake on the drawing.

[Milner62]

well if you move the pivot point aft it will make MORE of the Titanic sit under water and that would make the angle you came up with different

[silenceofthehills]

I looked at the animation, my animation goes well aft. May not look like it from. Other ships sink quite like this as well, even with heavy engines. See the links too. At times the hole stern will raise into the air, until 15-20 degrees.

I am basing this on a pdf which shows the balance point locations. The links are only representory.

Remember the point is 1.5 to 2 points of bending momentum will not cause much more. It's something that can be overlooked.

[rdj9606]

ok thats not how it sank couse i listen to the servivers on a video tell how it sank so ya thats not how

[silenceofthehills]

Let me guess 30-45 degrees then.

And no this is not diss-respectfull to them. I guess there was no list either.

[silenceofthehills]

Remember the pattern of the on board testimony counts too. This is based on the on board testimony, which is more dominant. Off board only has to be a stern more then hundreds an hundreds of feet high, or well angled enough, not a scy scraper.

Not one body slid down the deck before the break, or it would be the film version and all would notice this and tell of it. Not one person tells of it righting on board and it's why many beleive Titanic never broke. The high angle prevented it all.

[coingod]

that looks really diferent from what investigators think.

[silenceofthehills]

Not realy, I've been to several forums where people who worked on the teams go.

Explain which. The angle is correct, however. It is the random result of 17 minimum or lightly over. 19 is only to show that they have not done it with the grounding yet.

11-12 damages on board testimony too if you mean that. Also, the testimony counts, as they do not have to mean a sky scraper in the air. They figured out on board testimony helps alot, the other is interpretation from previous researchers.

[silenceofthehills]

The media has not updated what many official site re-searchers have noted on the testimony.

I also noted that testimony never actually contradicts another's. For intstance, some investigators are confused on the lighting, but it appears that coharently, one will be able to see at least a wrist watch or a port hole in the night glare.

Also, ones who note the lights going out, while saying she broke, say the lights went as she broke. A reason the break can't be mostly righting, but twisting.

[silenceofthehills]

This is only the raw data. I'm coming alittle more behind the scenes.

The same investigators while on the web show more focus for list. Long said they couldn't feature the list on the simulation at the time.

Usually it's bottem up or top to bottem, but looking at the only showing of righting in testimony (rolling over to port on a balance pivot would most likely cause the other side to rise), and one other implyance, there may be a new break method involving the list.

No tests in years.

[clctitanic]

it never sank at a sloped angle on its side though

[silenceofthehills]

Actually, though this is what the movie's show, several do tell of a list to port.

The man with Jack actually slid down the starboard side of the ship that is was so slanted.

[silenceofthehills]

To clear things up, I mean Jack Thayer.

One of the wireless officers tell of a nasty port list in the end. This was after they actually tried to even Titanic out by going to one side of the ship.

This is portrayed on A Night to Remember (book version), I also found it to be live testimony of I think Gracey or another.